All is vain.
The Cycle of Misinformation about Warriors
Snip
Personally I found warriors fine before the buffs functioning mostly in a role to punish classes that failed to take stun breakers. This means they had a very niche function and buffs should have been targeted to specifically help them in other matchups. Instead we got more global buffs that help with all match ups and things spiraled out of control.
Now the gameplay just feels bad with how simple a lot of things have become. Pre patch I would have to watch for number of dodges and really time important skills to make sure they land. Now with the threat density just spam skills and you’ll completely overload an opponents active defense and from there just chain whats left together. So what I am aiming for is to get rid of the bad gameplay while maintaining a similar power. ie. longbow changes, healing signet changes, brawn changes which may also incorporate small net nerfs.
Now with your arguments I don’t think you full understood what some of those changes were intended to do. Knee jerk reaction to what seems like a heavy warrior nerf on the surface?
2) With brawn, yes anything changed to it is a large buff and that was needed but the devil is in the details. Cd reduction + cleansing ire being nearly mandatory rewards skill spam as opposed to tactical play. In this case we want to see brawn still as viable as it currently is, but in a way that rewards tactical play. Armor pen has the added benefit of specifically targeting an area warriors had troubles with.
3) The difference here is a cd reduction functions better than a duration increase, putting more control on the warrior as opposed to the opponent. The duration becomes less important because opponents should start playing around the skill when they notice it. Now being able to use it more often increases the amount of time an opponent will be caught off guard by its use. Really ideally the power level should be very close to signet of stamina. Here it is a bit of opinion but if the signet cd was dropped by 5s I believe it and berserkers with these changes would be very close.
4) Ever played hammer and mace without the adrenaline on hit? It doesn’t work because the attack frequency is too low. Honestly cleansing ire is way over half the adrenaline gain for those builds. Personally before even the condi removal was added I found adrenaline on hit op compared to the other adrenaline gain options. Sure felt like it broke what should have been the innate weakness of some of the weapon sets that you know have recently started to crop up and cause problems.
5) Umm… is this talking about cleansing ire again? Reducing the passive healing on signet of healing say to ~340, cast time to 1, have it give 50% endurance and increase active healing by ~600 would definitely have an impact on the bad gameplay it creates.
6) longbow #5. The idea is it should not land consistently. It is a very high impact skill that should need to be timed appropriately for it to land because of how well it sets up the rest of the kit. Count dodges, make sure the chance it lands is high, play smart. Oh and with animations making up for cast bars means they have to be recognizable within ~0.1s of the skill being used. The arrow particles being unique is not good enough when the bow animation is the same for 4/5 skills.
Snip
Personally I found warriors fine before the buffs functioning mostly in a role to punish classes that failed to take stun breakers. This means they had a very niche function and buffs should have been targeted to specifically help them in other matchups. Instead we got more global buffs that help with all match ups and things spiraled out of control.
Now the gameplay just feels bad with how simple a lot of things have become. Pre patch I would have to watch for number of dodges and really time important skills to make sure they land. Now with the threat density just spam skills and you’ll completely overload an opponents active defense and from there just chain whats left together. So what I am aiming for is to get rid of the bad gameplay while maintaining a similar power. ie. longbow changes, healing signet changes, brawn changes which may also incorporate small net nerfs.
Now with your arguments I don’t think you full understood what some of those changes were intended to do. Knee jerk reaction to what seems like a heavy warrior nerf on the surface?
2) With brawn, yes anything changed to it is a large buff and that was needed but the devil is in the details. Cd reduction + cleansing ire being nearly mandatory rewards skill spam as opposed to tactical play. In this case we want to see brawn still as viable as it currently is, but in a way that rewards tactical play. Armor pen has the added benefit of specifically targeting an area warriors had troubles with.
3) The difference here is a cd reduction functions better than a duration increase, putting more control on the warrior as opposed to the opponent. The duration becomes less important because opponents should start playing around the skill when they notice it. Now being able to use it more often increases the amount of time an opponent will be caught off guard by its use. Really ideally the power level should be very close to signet of stamina. Here it is a bit of opinion but if the signet cd was dropped by 5s I believe it and berserkers with these changes would be very close.
4) Ever played hammer and mace without the adrenaline on hit? It doesn’t work because the attack frequency is too low. Honestly cleansing ire is way over half the adrenaline gain for those builds. Personally before even the condi removal was added I found adrenaline on hit op compared to the other adrenaline gain options. Sure felt like it broke what should have been the innate weakness of some of the weapon sets that you know have recently started to crop up and cause problems.
5) Umm… is this talking about cleansing ire again? Reducing the passive healing on signet of healing say to ~340, cast time to 1, have it give 50% endurance and increase active healing by ~600 would definitely have an impact on the bad gameplay it creates.
6) longbow #5. The idea is it should not land consistently. It is a very high impact skill that should need to be timed appropriately for it to land because of how well it sets up the rest of the kit. Count dodges, make sure the chance it lands is high, play smart. Oh and with animations making up for cast bars means they have to be recognizable within ~0.1s of the skill being used. The arrow particles being unique is not good enough when the bow animation is the same for 4/5 skills.
All this
summary:
warriors are good in what they do right now, but not godlike.
This is the saddest thread i’ve seen in a very very long time.
The argument is warriors aren’t overpowered. Which is just silly.
And to prove that its being compared to the best of other classes.That because warriors aren’t the best at everything that they don’t need to be touched.
That they don’t spike as hard as a thief. Or don’t mid bunker as well as a guard (which they do and more), or don’t have the mobility as an ele all at the same time that they are okay. Well they shouldn’tFirst let me say that i rarely have an issue with warriors. S/S – Longbow every now and then gives me issues. And M/S – Hammer is normally a bit too annoying to deal with. But just because me (an above average player) doesn’t have an issue against most of them doesn’t mean they aren’t over the top.
Warriors themselves just have a bit too much of everything rolled into one. (sounds a lot like the ele before they were nerfed right). They don’t hit like trucks (in the fotm builds) but they hit really hard, they don’t survive like bunkers (though they are really close) but they can outlive most classes, they don’t escape like thieves and mesmers but they can almost always get away. And when you take all those things and roll it up into a ball and place it on one class you find that that class is over the top.
And the worst part are there are just 0! counters to fighting warriors.
-You aren’t out bunkering them, they have almost as much survivalbility as a guard but tag on heavy CC and moderated damage (which is way more dmg than a bunker guard has).
-You aren’t bursting them, they enough natural hp and massive amounts of toughness, CDs that make them unstunable, unconditionable, and undamageable on moderate CD. Not to mention a 3 sec block (which if you count 3 aegis (1 natural, 1 Virtue, and 1 from shout) is just as much if not more than a guard. On top of CCs to mitigate dmg.
-You aren’t Conditioning them to death. if you can keep conditions on them at all. Cleanse Ire + Lyssa on Signets of rage + Berserker’s Stance + (if you take it Shake it off if you want) + (Dogged March if you take it) you’re conditions arent sticking because almost every build has the first three and some take the last 2 as well meaning you aren’t keeping conditions on him. Where most classes, lets say guards, can take off a burst of about 8 conditions on about 25 – 45 sec CDs, warriors are dropping them in their natural rotation all the time as well as just becoming immune to it.
-And lastly you just aren’t going to kill him. The warrior does moderate damage without giving up any survival. He has moderate to good survival naturally, conditions are removed at a very high rate and their mobility as well as CC is among the top of all the classes.And all of that information, Is rolled into 1 build
Yes players have a tendency to go over the top when they are upset. But the sad thing is most of the information is close to true.
And if you have so many counters to these warrior build i would LOVE to hear it. And “Just bring friends” isn’t a viable strat and just letting one profession be better than the rest is terrible terrible game design.
Also i play my PvP warrior all the time (mostly when i want to faceroll things) and the only thing i fear in pvp in my Fotm spec is other warriors or 3 people.