Guild Wars 2

[EDIT: Changed title to something suitably interesting]
Hello, everyone. This will be quite a wall of text, but I’ll include a TL;DR for those who need one.
TL;DR: Continue Reading :P.

Now that that’s over with.
A bit of background about myself as it relates to this post (more or less just an acknowledgement to my ignorance):

• I’ve had virtually no prior MMO PvP experience (gigantic PvEer, and have played other games’ PvP).
• I’ve played Guild Wars 2 since its beta days, and was gradually converted from straight, solo PvE into solo WvW, finally landing here in true PvP about a week ago (and playing almost nothing else since then).

Both of those points are obviously going to influence my opinions, and I will very likely be corrected by those more experienced/knowledgeable. That said, this post is an *opinion*…not the law, not what others see, but hopefully something that will draw thoughtful criticism/advice/discussion. As I realize how long this post will be, I’ll include the actual suggestion, and hide the story (which I believe does lend my point of view some more credit) in two “spoiler” thingamijigs (very, very long).

Story, Part II: [disclaimer: There is something seriously wrong with the spoiler formatting on this post]
I'm one of those read-but-never-respond kind of forum users (actually, this is my first post!). Being trolled/yelled at never really appealed to me, and other brave souls had almost always addressed the topic I was curious about. Well, one day, I decide to check out the sPvP forum section. Scrolling down the first page, I saw a thread that caught my eye…a thread about "dueling". *O.o* Turns out, there are others that felt the same way I did (and wrote much less). Apparently, people "dueled", _instead_ of the usual sPvP. Interested, I read more about this whole dueling thing. I read about people helping people, about learning to play PvP with professions, about a *non-zergy* PvP mode! Soon, I gave way to my curiosity, and had to venture into sPvP lands once again to see for myself if this was simply too good to be true. Joining a game, I crossed my fingers. And let out _several_ words that would be censored to "kitten" as I once again witnessed sPvP. Deciding to play through this match to punish myself, I saw a new message on my chat bar… "dule any1?"! Excitedly, I agreed (with several exclamation marks!), and we met up, went to a deserted piece of land, and stood there. Yelling "HIT ME!!!" like a maniac, we fought…1v1. Of course, I was promptly downed…but no finishing move came. Looking around, I saw him standing there, telling me "gd, u can rez". And _that_, everyone, is why there's one more sPvPer. Six days - and 70+ duels – later, I've doubled my buddies list, am in two wanna-be free tourney teams (no experience required!), and very, very happy. Unfortunately…I spend way too little time sleeping now. If I had never met that thief, I would not have poked PvP with a ten-foot pole ever again. Now? I can compete in the ever-zerg sPvP matches without hating it, actually know how to switch teams, and understand how useless glory is right now (had to put that in there).
Now, to the Suggestion:

So, what is the point of this ridiculously long post?
I believe that the first half of my story is a possible reason for PvP’s lack of players. I believe that there is a vast population in WvW, as well as PvE, who could come to enjoy sPvP if changes/additions are made.
Simply put, I believe the current sPvP formula does not encourage the general “casual” PvE & WvW population. I believe that the process one new to PvP commonly goes through to play sPvP is a wall to a huge, untapped PvE/WvW playerbase that could very well find the idea of an implementation of “dueling servers” appealing (a.k.a – focuses on dueling, but hopefully also has a much more friendly, helpful, communicative personality than usual sPvP matches). I understand that many people enjoy the current sPvP, and I do at times as well. I’m not petitioning for getting rid of/changing the current sPvP implementation, but adding a strong system that targets a significant population that would enjoy something different. (I may, actually, post this in the WvW/General Discussion forum as well, to get a variety of feedback).
The other, more focused dueling threads currently popular on the forum led me to post this. Many sPvPers can have trouble finding servers that are not pseudo-dueling servers (a person claimed to have entered 5 straight dueling servers…). I, personally, think this is a huge phenomenon to look into. People having trouble finding servers that are actually playing sPvP the way ArenaNet designed it? A slice of PvP population enjoys dueling enough to convert regular matches, not designed for dueling at all, into dueling-only servers? That the only positive chat in sPvP matches is 90% of the time about duels/in dueling servers? Now, I am only rank 8 (one does not acquire much glory by dueling, especially without capping/finishing). Maybe in higher ranks hotjoin sPvP is totally different. I’ve also heard that tPvP is different (very happy about that). However, obviously neither are enough to sate duelers’ thirst.
Now, how about some bullet points as for why an implementation of dueling servers is a good idea:

• Will, more likely than not, draw new PvPers in from different aspects of this great game (especially if this addition is advertised well, which it should be)
• Will keep many who just enjoy the aura of dueling servers (friendlyish competition, community, learning)
• Will give back to the regular sPvPers their servers, so they can know that a match they hop into will be, in fact, traditional sPvP
  *Would be an amazing place for any team to train
• Hopefully will optimize aspects of matches for dueling (time, capping, etc), as well as a possibility for options players may be able to change (if you’re screaming CUSTOM ARENAS, THIS IS CUSTOM ARENAS, please continue to read, and don’t hop down and post about this already being planned)
• [EDIT: ADDED] Would be an ideal place for theorycrafting/experimenting with new builds before the paid tourney scene [Courtesy of Sampi, who posted below]
• Also, I feel the tutorial should be revamped and expanded (but I read in some thread that this was already planned by ArenaNet).

So, now to confront the elephant in the room…Custom Arenas. In case you don’t know what I’m talking about, here is the original post. It’s discussed in the section after “Paid Automated Tournaments” (also, is there any update on these? I don’t remember any significant changes/specifications as to the vague information given in that article). I have to say, these Custom Arenas sound like a great idea, and almost exactly what dueling servers are. I mean, what’s better than customizing a map, with full control, doing whatever sort of PvP you want in there!? Well…it’s almost a dueling server…except…
The servers are RENTED. That’s right, RENTED. Well…I, personally, am probably not going to pay any form of currency to rent a server for myself…especially since, as a casual player, I would barely be on there! Part of dueling servers, arguably a large part, is to practice with people you know, at set times. A group of friends, a new tourney team, a crazy-good paids team, whatever. But…who will actually buy a server? Okay, you’re right, those crazy-good teams probably will. And they should get something great for paying for it. As well as anyone else who is willing to pay for it. However, let’s ponder how the ecosystem would involve those who either can’t/won’t pay for an entire server. As the article said, you could open to anyone! Oh, wait…this is starting to sound like an anyone-server…on conquest maps…sounds like the sPvP we have now, but now the renter can control the rules. Ouch. Anyone played Battlefield 3, when they focused on pushing rentable, custom servers and pulling out official servers? How about any other game where one person can control the rules in a competitive setting? Yeah, may not be such a great idea to restrict dueling to servers owned by a person. Even if readers thought this could be not such a bad thing (for instance, people buying servers only for dueling), many people would just continue to use official sPvP servers like they do now. There would definitely be more open sPvP servers than open, reliable, rented dueling servers. Which puts us back to square one. Now, I think custom arenas are a great idea! I just don’t believe it will solve the dueling conundrum. If you think it does, however, feel free to explain why- I’d love to have this problem solved!
So, what do these “dueling servers” entail? Good question! (These are just a few suggestions, which could be implemented whenever…I’d just take normal servers set aside for dueling if it’d come quicker)

• Revamp/remove the timer of each map. Remove it, and there could be servers just static on one map, and we could enter/exit the one we want (not just dueling, but also learning maps). Revamp, and have the usual circulating maps. I would prefer the first, so that you can duel on the map YOU want, and can ignore the maps you don’t want to touch.
• Since the goal isn’t conquest, remove it! The cap points could remain, so there could be practice in holding/taking points, as well as “king of the hill” style duels (hint- doesn’t need to be completely changed! If matches don’t end by points (which dueling servers shoudn’t), then you can just let them rack up, and at a certain point, they can reset).
• Team switching should be unlimited! And, even better, you could enable/disable ability to take/do damage, as well as be on a team (just a simple invuln checkbox). Possibly open to abuse, but some implementation would be great.
• Also, to distinguish Custom Arenas from these servers, the ability for players to set any rules should be excluded, as well as any privacy/passwords/etc (obviously).

We want PvP in Guild Wars 2 to rock. We would love to see a higher population in PvP, even if they are new and unexperienced. I hope that others will agree on my points, and expect that the ideas will be refined/criticized by minds more knowledgeable than mine. So please respond! Whoever you are!

Thank you,
The Eclipse.

i know you’re not finished typing, yeah the zergyness, sucks but at higher level games, it is less an issue frm what i’ve seen of streams etc. like you, most of my friends-list ppl are from dueling, i’ve recently got into it and spent way too much time, and similarly looking forward to doing some tourneys with my buddies when i get around to it. What server are you on out of curiosity?

Wanderer.5471:

i know you’re not finished typing, yeah the zergyness, sucks but at higher level games, it is less an issue frm what i’ve seen of streams etc. like you, most of my friends-list ppl are from dueling, i’ve recently got into it and spent way too much time, and similarly looking forward to doing some tourneys with my buddies when i get around to it. What server are you on out of curiosity?

Hey, Wanderer,
That’s great to hear! Hopefully I’ll get up there sometime…but I’d have to duel less haha. I’m on Sorrow’s Furnace (this will open a can of worms…T8 WvW- and yes, it is still fun being down this low :P). Can’t wait to hear what you think of my suggestion!

I remember seeing that video where the devs said there was an arena system at place at first in alpha or beta, but they said people werent interested enough so they designed conquest mode -_-

Imo, Arena would have been a great source of fun for me, add dueling into the mix and now you have a complete PVP game.

Very good post and great ideas!
Read whole post.

I would like them to make the battle last longer, and some new game modes!

aaron.7850:

I remember seeing that video where the devs said there was an arena system at place at first in alpha or beta, but they said people werent interested enough so they designed conquest mode -_-

Imo, Arena would have been a great source of fun for me, add dueling into the mix and now you have a complete PVP game.

That was a bummer to hear for me as well…they should have kept it. But who knows, maybe conquest was the better choice then. Now, however…seems that some sort of arenas/dueling is needed.

Vissy.5861:

Very good post and great ideas!
Read whole post.

I would like them to make the battle last longer, and some new game modes!

Thanks! Hopefully, those will be coming in this PvP February patch… >.>

Great suggestion. Different from the usual posts for dueling which usually go along the lines of – “Omg arenanet is kitten. Can I plox haz dueling??”. Hope the devs will read this and look into it.

dreamer.1675:

Great suggestion. Different from the usual posts for dueling which usually go along the lines of – “Omg arenanet is kitten. Can I plox haz dueling??”. Hope the devs will read this and look into it.

Thank you, dreamer. That is exactly why I felt prompted to post something. Dueling has been discussed in various threads to various ends, but many seem to lack compelling reasoning/rhetoric that might be able to show the extent of the situation.

Or they could just introduce anywhere/anytime dueling, along with things like PTR, general chat,deserter debuff, solo and team ranking and ladders and matchmaking, 2 or 3 non-conquest game modes. Would like to be able to go on general chat and write " Hey everyone, if interested in duels lets meet up in front of Divinity Reach" or just engage in dueling while in the mists, right click a person, choose duel option, how hard can it be to implement that?. But, i dont see that happening any time soon or ever. If you want an uninterrupted duels you will pay for it via rented servers As far as PvP is concerned, this game is pretty pathetic.

Khyras.8021:

Or they could just introduce anywhere/anytime dueling, along with things like PTR, general chat,deserter debuff, solo and team ranking and ladders and matchmaking, 2 or 3 non-conquest game modes. Would like to be able to go on general chat and write " Hey everyone, if interested in duels lets meet up in front of Divinity Reach" or just engage in dueling while in the mists, right click a person, choose duel option, how hard can it be to implement that?. But, i dont see that happening any time soon or ever. If you want an uninterrupted duels you will pay for it via rented servers As far as PvP is concerned, this game is pretty pathetic.

Khyras,
The idea of truly open-world dueling would be incredible, especially for sPvP/WvWers like ourselves. It could very well also bring people back into the deserted, mid-level PvE maps (actually, this could be a great idea). Unfortunately, I could see this type of dueling spring up a storm of problems (PvEers frustrated with PvP entering their realm, spamming, etc). Albeit, a well-planned system could be successful (and one I’d enjoy). Thanks for sharing you thoughts!

A great read which also shows how hard it is to get into this game currently (and it didnt even tap into the current elitism in the community in terms of rank requirements for teams and qp requirements in paid teams)

the game itself is great, it’s just so hard to get into. And hotjoins are a complete mess devoid of strategy, skill and teamwork

I’d be interested in dueling, but I think the TTK is a bit low for players who are looking to get better at their class and at the game mechanics to really learn what happened and how to not have it happen again before they die.

Oni.5429:

A great read which also shows how hard it is to get into this game currently (and it didnt even tap into the current elitism in the community in terms of rank requirements for teams and qp requirements in paid teams)

the game itself is great, it’s just so hard to get into. And hotjoins are a complete mess devoid of strategy, skill and teamwork

Oni,
Thanks! Yes…the QP points do seem to have a needlessly large importance in paids/teams. And hopefully this solution may alleviate some trouble with hotjoin…those who want to play that way can, but those who don’t won’t have to. I see it as you, but I’ve chatted with people who love it the way it is. To each his own, I guess.

Eclipses.7152:

I’d be interested in dueling, but I think the TTK is a bit low for players who are looking to get better at their class and at the game mechanics to really learn what happened and how to not have it happen again before they die.

Eclipses,
What does “TTK” mean? Not familiar with it.

….Time to kill….

I support this thread. The PvP in GW2 is good, but unfortunately there’s not an easy way for people to try it for the first time.

NevirSayDie.6235:

I support this thread. The PvP in GW2 is good, but unfortunately there’s not an easy way for people to try it for the first time.

Thanks, NevirSayDie! Agreed- I hope this is remedied very soon with matchmaking.

The great thing about dueling servers is that you often find people you can either help, learn from, or run tourneys with. I was able to help a fledgling engi figure out blast finishers, learn about a tanky engi option I hadn’t thought of and find a new group of guys to do paids with all in the same day because of dueling servers. If you see a server with only 3-5 people in it, check it out, who knows what you might find

Choops.3710:

The great thing about dueling servers is that you often find people you can either help, learn from, or run tourneys with. I was able to help a fledgling engi figure out blast finishers, learn about a tanky engi option I hadn’t thought of and find a new group of guys to do paids with all in the same day because of dueling servers. If you see a server with only 3-5 people in it, check it out, who knows what you might find

Choops,
I wish more people knew about the awesome things that come out of dueling servers- those same things happened to me as well. Especially when your dueling server reaches upwards of ten people, all dueling/chatting/helping. Great stuff.

I have another side to the dueling debate.

One of my favorite things its to theory craft on my various characters, testing builds and set ups and what not. Golems are nice and all but real results come from play testing. This… Zergfest that we call hot joins are extremely counterproductive, you either have no visible affect on the battle following the zerg, or you rez and shamble back to a point and start searching for your missing teeth. Dueling servers so far are the only reasonable place I have found outside of paid tournaments to test a builds effectiveness. I can get a few friends or even new faces to take on my build 1v1, or even 1v2 1v3 etc to simulate tournament style fights.

Honestly I think this is more of a problem with hot joins having such high player caps and not being restricted to 5v5 to match the other game modes. But, dueling servers have provided the community and opportunity to solve this problem even if only slightly.

Sampi.5079:

I have another side to the dueling debate.

One of my favorite things its to theory craft on my various characters, testing builds and set ups and what not. Golems are nice and all but real results come from play testing. This… Zergfest that we call hot joins are extremely counterproductive, you either have no visible affect on the battle following the zerg, or you rez and shamble back to a point and start searching for your missing teeth. Dueling servers so far are the only reasonable place I have found outside of paid tournaments to test a builds effectiveness. I can get a few friends or even new faces to take on my build 1v1, or even 1v2 1v3 etc to simulate tournament style fights.

Honestly I think this is more of a problem with hot joins having such high player caps and not being restricted to 5v5 to match the other game modes. But, dueling servers have provided the community and opportunity to solve this problem even if only slightly.

Sampi,
That’s an excellent point – in fact, I’ll add that in my original post. I agree…8v8 ,on such small maps (for 8v8 conquest), does not provide enough accurate feedback on your build/setup. Maybe I’m being too assuming, but I’d say that ArenaNet may be (hopefully) promoting 5v5 more than it is currently, according to the numerous posts about the issue. Thanks!