Men do not stop playing because they grow old. They grow old because they stop playing.
(edited by Enektric.4527)
The Gw1 Queue system?
As much as I think the ideas in Gw1 were superior in every way, I don’t think we can port this one over unless it is with a different game mode. Matches in Random Arena probably averaged 2-3 minutes, more if it was a good fight, whereas in conquest it is probably 7-10 minutes. I don’t think many people can put up with the same consecutive matches system here with such long games.
Josre
Zulu Ox Tactics [zulu]
Zulu Ox Tactics [zulu]
indeed, the 2-3 min RA matches, i did that hour after hour back then, now… i do about 3-4 matches (usu vs premades or w/ trash) in an hour (those queue times…)
after that hour i’m so down i just log out
in RA, even if i had 5 trash matches in a row, that prob only took boot 20 mins, and if on the 6th i got a good team, we got to keep the streak alive
o dem gud ol days
PvP in GW1 was very different. No insta kills, CC was rare, combat was more strategic with resource management, no blinding flashes, and no pet zoo (other than MM necro, but they weren’t used much for PvP because the corpses could only come from the dead bodies of other players!)
And as others have pointed out, matches finished much faster.
PvP in GW1 was very different. No insta kills, CC was rare, combat was more strategic with resource management, no blinding flashes, and no pet zoo (other than MM necro, but they weren’t used much for PvP because the corpses could only come from the dead bodies of other players!)
And as others have pointed out, matches finished much faster.
-> Spikes were viable tactic for pretty long in competitive play.
-> Hammer Warriors, Gale, Interrupt Rangers/Mesmers etc…
-> http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blinding_Flash
As much as I think the ideas in Gw1 were superior in every way, I don’t think we can port this one over unless it is with a different game mode. Matches in Random Arena probably averaged 2-3 minutes, more if it was a good fight, whereas in conquest it is probably 7-10 minutes. I don’t think many people can put up with the same consecutive matches system here with such long games.
We don’t really have to stick to 10 matches. 5 matches could be possible as well.
and If you’re out of time you just leave between matches that happened in Gw1 a lot as well.
Men do not stop playing because they grow old. They grow old because they stop playing.
Couldn’t we have had…random arena(fast queue/matches just like GW1), solo conquest and team conquest? I don’t know everything about mmo pvp, but why do we need Anet hotjoin servers? We could have custom arenas created by players, random arena and solo/team conquest. Many of the people in hotjoin look for fights anyway, why not make an actual TDM mode?
PvP in GW1 was very different. No insta kills, CC was rare, combat was more strategic with resource management, no blinding flashes, and no pet zoo (other than MM necro, but they weren’t used much for PvP because the corpses could only come from the dead bodies of other players!)
And as others have pointed out, matches finished much faster.
-> Spikes were viable tactic for pretty long in competitive play.
-> Hammer Warriors, Gale, Interrupt Rangers/Mesmers etc…
-> http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blinding_Flash
Spikes had to be set-up. The gameplay was slower and random arena wasn’t premades. Usually you could see things coming before you died. Interrupts weren’t stun-locks and by blinding flash he means the clutter on-screen.
PvP in GW1 was very different. No insta kills, CC was rare, combat was more strategic with resource management, no blinding flashes, and no pet zoo (other than MM necro, but they weren’t used much for PvP because the corpses could only come from the dead bodies of other players!)
And as others have pointed out, matches finished much faster.
-> Spikes were viable tactic for pretty long in competitive play.
-> Hammer Warriors, Gale, Interrupt Rangers/Mesmers etc…
-> http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blinding_Flash
We’re talking about Random Arenas – i.e. solo q where no premade coordination was possible. Also apart from the assassin, I don’t remember too many gap closers either. You really couldn’t be “insta-gibbed” – not even light armored professions like monks who were almost always the first target anyway.
Not to mention skill bars allowed you to interrupt key skills. If an elementalist had burst skills, a mesmer could easily shut them down. I know because I played a mesmer, an elementalist, a ritualist, a monk, and a ranger.
“Instant death” was not a reality in practice. Maybe…maybe I remember as a Mesmer I could use Aneurysm when the mana of the opponent was low and they were a casting profession to deal some 200 damage in one shot. Otherwise, no.
Imagine…all this without even dodges! So you can imagine how bad it is in GW2 where with dodges you can still be locked down and killed quickly with things like gap closers and stealth, CC spam etc.
(edited by bhagwad.4281)
Guys, if you compare GW2 Conquest to GW1 mechanic wise etc…
You should look on it like GvG since both have objectives, unlike Anihillation.
Guys, if you compare GW2 Conquest to GW1 mechanic wise etc…
You should look on it like GvG since both have objectives, unlike Anihillation.
we are not comparing game mechanics we are finding a way to improve on the gw2 queue system.
Men do not stop playing because they grow old. They grow old because they stop playing.
(edited by Enektric.4527)
Guys, if you compare GW2 Conquest to GW1 mechanic wise etc…
You should look on it like GvG since both have objectives, unlike Anihillation.we are not comparing game mechanics we are finding a way to improve on the gw2 queue system.
We are doing both ;-)
Honestly I’ve tried to make discussion about solotions from GW1 (random arena) and even if other people very positive about such ideas for changing que system in GW2, such thread and/or posts in other threads about ques never got any dev response… so I doubt our feedback won’t be ignored this time.
Anyway lets do it once again…
How to make Que system better while using GW1 solutions?
-> Split SoloQ and Premade que.
-> Let winning team (SoloQ) persist for next game (reque), while giving winning team win streak bonus to reward track, ladder points etc.
-> Move winning team from SoloQ to PremadeQ after X winstreak (5-10?).
-> Make reward.track and ladder.points gain higher in PremadeQ.
Lets see what this would give us:
+:
-> Premades would be removed from SoloQ, matches would be more fair and less frustrating for majority players in SoloQ.
-> Ability to keep winning team could make playing much more enjoyable, since you wouldn’t have to roll a dice every match.
-> Ability to keep winning team could help in forming teams for PremadeQ or even encourage people to try #esportz. If you’re doing great with your ‘team’, then try to play more often together!
-> Teams which did well in SoloQ after keeping their winstreak would face Premades and:
a) weak and average SoloQ teams wouldn’t be moved to PremadeQ, where they don’t have any chances of winning anyway (less frustration for SoloQ players)
b) SoloQ players who did well as SoloQ team could advance into PremadeQ and battle Premades on even ground (more competitive matches)
c) since ‘strong’ teams from SoloQ would be moved into PremadeQ waiting time for PremadeQ could be shorter
-:
→ Strong SoloQ teams could be considered as annoying as Premades.
→ PremadeQ could be longer if SoloQ teams would have problems in achieving required winstreak to get moved into PremadeQ
Guys, if you compare GW2 Conquest to GW1 mechanic wise etc…
You should look on it like GvG since both have objectives, unlike Anihillation.we are not comparing game mechanics we are finding a way to improve on the gw2 queue system.
We are doing both ;-)
Honestly I’ve tried to make discussion about solotions from GW1 (random arena) and even if other people very positive about such ideas for changing que system in GW2, such thread and/or posts in other threads about ques never got any dev response… so I doubt our feedback won’t be ignored this time.Anyway lets do it once again…
How to make Que system better while using GW1 solutions?
-> Split SoloQ and Premade que.
-> Let winning team (SoloQ) persist for next game (reque), while giving winning team win streak bonus to reward track, ladder points etc.
-> Move winning team from SoloQ to PremadeQ after X winstreak (5-10?).
-> Make reward.track and ladder.points gain higher in PremadeQ.Lets see what this would give us:
+:
-> Premades would be removed from SoloQ, matches would be more fair and less frustrating for majority players in SoloQ.
-> Ability to keep winning team could make playing much more enjoyable, since you wouldn’t have to roll a dice every match.
-> Ability to keep winning team could help in forming teams for PremadeQ or even encourage people to try #esportz. If you’re doing great with your ‘team’, then try to play more often together!
-> Teams which did well in SoloQ after keeping their winstreak would face Premades and:
a) weak and average SoloQ teams wouldn’t be moved to PremadeQ, where they don’t have any chances of winning anyway (less frustration for SoloQ players)
b) SoloQ players who did well as SoloQ team could advance into PremadeQ and battle Premades on even ground (more competitive matches)
c) since ‘strong’ teams from SoloQ would be moved into PremadeQ waiting time for PremadeQ could be shorter-:
-> Strong SoloQ teams could be considered as annoying as Premades.
-> PremadeQ could be longer if SoloQ teams would have problems in achieving required winstreak to get moved into PremadeQ
i support this.
altho bringing back tru RA, no respawn, 5v5 soloq, would be preferable for ma
Having a nice RA group that strings together 10+ wins was one of the best hidden ways GW1 had of making a few new friends and/or recruiting.
There’s something to be said about a pug that ends up having really nice team chemistry that can outplay even premades.
Darknicrofia Sage – Bad Gerdian, Merciless Legend, Platinum NA Solo Que
Rose tinted glasses huh? People forget the random arena (RA) sync queuing or the fact that RA teams with a monk were alot more likely to go through to team arenas (TA) than any non monk team.
People are also forgetting why TA got completely removed and why getting promoted to TA was a bad thing. They were dominated by smiteway groups to the extent that smiter’s boon got nerfed so hard it coined the term “s-booning” (meaning to nerf something so hard the intent is to effectively stop anyone ever using it).
After smiteway there were 3x perma distortion mindblast/rodgort ele + 1x monk/warrior stance teams that you could never, ever beat in a random group.
There were very good reasons why TA was removed from the game and replaced with the sealed deck codex arena. It isn’t much different to getting farmed by 5 man premades in GW2 ranked queue, except due to the complex skill system in GW1, it was alot worse.
Queuing in GW1 was generally horrible because there were far too many game modes that split the number of concurrent pvp players too many times so you had to wait an eternity to get a gvg. Top 50 gvg teams had to wait over an hour to get a match during off peak times. And half the time it was against a team that wasn’t even ranked. No leaderboard decay ensured that within 2 years, the top 1000 gvg leaderboard was clogged with 90% dead or defunct guilds and smurfs.
Tombs/HA cheated in the sense that if there weren’t enough teams you just skipped straight to scarred earth/courtyard. But Tombs/HA was and will always be a rank farm.
I loved GW1 but queuing and matchmaking in that game was seriously dysfunctional. Its just unbelievable to me how anyone who actually played it within the last 8 years could hold it up as a pillar of design.
(edited by Besetment.9187)
Rose tinted glasses huh? People forget the random arena (RA) sync queuing or the fact that RA teams with a monk were alot more likely to go through to team arenas (TA) than any non monk team.
People are also forgetting why TA got completely removed and why getting promoted to TA was a bad thing. They were dominated by smiteway groups to the extent that smiter’s boon got nerfed so hard it coined the term “s-booning” (meaning to nerf something so hard the intent is to effectively stop anyone ever using it).
After smiteway there were 3x perma distortion mindblast/rodgort ele + 1x monk/warrior stance teams that you could never, ever beat in a random group.
There were very good reasons why TA was removed from the game and replaced with the sealed deck codex arena. It isn’t much different to getting farmed by 5 man premades in GW2 ranked queue, except due to the complex skill system in GW1, it was alot worse.
Queuing in GW1 was generally horrible because there were far too many game modes that split the number of concurrent pvp players too many times so you had to wait an eternity to get a gvg. Top 50 gvg teams had to wait over an hour to get a match during off peak times. And half the time it was against a team that wasn’t even ranked. No leaderboard decay ensured that within 2 years, the top 1000 gvg leaderboard was clogged with 90% dead or defunct guilds and smurfs.
Tombs/HA cheated in the sense that if there weren’t enough teams you just skipped straight to scarred earth/courtyard. But Tombs/HA was and will always be a rank farm.
I loved GW1 but queuing and matchmaking in that game was seriously dysfunctional. Its just unbelievable to me how anyone who actually played it within the last 8 years could hold it up as a pillar of design.
I think the OP was referring only to Random Arenas (RA). Which was indeed awesome. The other game modes…well they catered to a much more niche community. Just like in GW2, the overwhelmingly large playerbase just wants a good solo experience.
Rose tinted glasses huh? People forget the random arena (RA) sync queuing or the fact that RA teams with a monk were alot more likely to go through to team arenas (TA) than any non monk team.
People are also forgetting why TA got completely removed and why getting promoted to TA was a bad thing. They were dominated by smiteway groups to the extent that smiter’s boon got nerfed so hard it coined the term “s-booning” (meaning to nerf something so hard the intent is to effectively stop anyone ever using it).
After smiteway there were 3x perma distortion mindblast/rodgort ele + 1x monk/warrior stance teams that you could never, ever beat in a random group.
There were very good reasons why TA was removed from the game and replaced with the sealed deck codex arena. It isn’t much different to getting farmed by 5 man premades in GW2 ranked queue, except due to the complex skill system in GW1, it was alot worse.
Queuing in GW1 was generally horrible because there were far too many game modes that split the number of concurrent pvp players too many times so you had to wait an eternity to get a gvg. Top 50 gvg teams had to wait over an hour to get a match during off peak times. And half the time it was against a team that wasn’t even ranked. No leaderboard decay ensured that within 2 years, the top 1000 gvg leaderboard was clogged with 90% dead or defunct guilds and smurfs.
Tombs/HA cheated in the sense that if there weren’t enough teams you just skipped straight to scarred earth/courtyard. But Tombs/HA was and will always be a rank farm.
I loved GW1 but queuing and matchmaking in that game was seriously dysfunctional. Its just unbelievable to me how anyone who actually played it within the last 8 years could hold it up as a pillar of design.
pfft, the term is called “ether renewing”
Darknicrofia Sage – Bad Gerdian, Merciless Legend, Platinum NA Solo Que
And obviously I’m not talking about GW1 being the best pvp game ever made in terms of 2-3 years past its prime. For the brief period between Prophecies and Factions (GWWC and GWFC) when the GvG scene was at its apex, there wasn’t another pvp game that was ever better.
Darknicrofia Sage – Bad Gerdian, Merciless Legend, Platinum NA Solo Que
Rose tinted glasses huh? People forget the random arena (RA) sync queuing or the fact that RA teams with a monk were alot more likely to go through to team arenas (TA) than any non monk team.
People are also forgetting why TA got completely removed and why getting promoted to TA was a bad thing. They were dominated by smiteway groups to the extent that smiter’s boon got nerfed so hard it coined the term “s-booning” (meaning to nerf something so hard the intent is to effectively stop anyone ever using it).
After smiteway there were 3x perma distortion mindblast/rodgort ele + 1x monk/warrior stance teams that you could never, ever beat in a random group.
There were very good reasons why TA was removed from the game and replaced with the sealed deck codex arena. It isn’t much different to getting farmed by 5 man premades in GW2 ranked queue, except due to the complex skill system in GW1, it was alot worse.
Queuing in GW1 was generally horrible because there were far too many game modes that split the number of concurrent pvp players too many times so you had to wait an eternity to get a gvg. Top 50 gvg teams had to wait over an hour to get a match during off peak times. And half the time it was against a team that wasn’t even ranked. No leaderboard decay ensured that within 2 years, the top 1000 gvg leaderboard was clogged with 90% dead or defunct guilds and smurfs.
Tombs/HA cheated in the sense that if there weren’t enough teams you just skipped straight to scarred earth/courtyard. But Tombs/HA was and will always be a rank farm.
I loved GW1 but queuing and matchmaking in that game was seriously dysfunctional. Its just unbelievable to me how anyone who actually played it within the last 8 years could hold it up as a pillar of design.
I think the OP was referring only to Random Arenas (RA). Which was indeed awesome. The other game modes…well they catered to a much more niche community. Just like in GW2, the overwhelmingly large playerbase just wants a good solo experience.
once again i have to agree w/ bhagwad, hell really is freezing over.
either way, no one said RA was perfect, sure u could game the system w/ queue syncing, but the overall exp i had, was about 30 sec queues, 2-3 min matches, resulting in dozens of matches an evening w/o ever hitting a total losing streak.
lik i says earlier, if u hit a losing streak in gw2 even just 4 matches, thats about an hour, and thats just demoralizing. sur w/ mmr eventually after losing 4 in a row you’ll hit a 4 in a row win streak, but eh i just don’t have as much fun as i did in RA
I believe they must have had a reason to leave the gw1 system behind, we just can’t guess that reason because we have not enough insight into it.
but what we can do is inspire them to make the system in gw2 better.
They don’t have to do what we say them exactly but we may be able to inspire them.
That also means they don’t have to respond to this thread!
That said we don’t really have to stick to the complete gw1 formula, they are able to change it any way they wish. but the large advantage that system had is that it was a pretty social system with a more fun experience overall.
You can’t straight up copy the entire system over for gw2 it’s a different game so requires different ways of solving this feature but we can still be inspired by the gw1 system.
Also the reason the gw1 games ended faster as well was /resign.
Having that in place in gw2 would save me hours a day. because sometimes you just know it’s not going to work, 10-200 for example is a pretty dire situation.
Men do not stop playing because they grow old. They grow old because they stop playing.