Guild Wars 2

Can someone (preferably a dev) please explain to me how removing healers completely and forcing you into either an extreme bunker or burst build in order to be effective gives you MORE choice when playing? Unless I’m missing something huge, they didn’t revolutionise anything by abolishing the “holy trinity” because they didn’t get rid of it, they just removed one leg of it. Not only did this drastically reduce the number of effective builds available, it also alienated players (like myself) that prefer to play healers.

Dodging and weapon swapping are great, and even downed state was at least new if not to everyone’s taste, but I really don’t see how Anet’s claims of revolutionising mmo team based gameplay are realised simply by cutting out 1/3 of the available character classes? Happy to hear thoughts on this.

Honestly I dont think it’s that they removed one leg, but rather they crushed it to be very minuscule in comparison to the other roles and even incorporated it into the other roles so much that going full support would be kittening your team.

Support chars need more then just regeneration and random boon giving to be competitive.

They need to have more weapon type-abilities (Perhaps the ability to switch them out of combat to one focusing on attack a la most of the ones we have today, or a defensive one?) And perhaps extra abilities you won’t find on any class. How about a support water ele giving everyone in proximity one stack of a boon able to cleanse conditions (such as immo, 10 stacks of bleeding at once, poison below 50% hp, etc.) when they activate a certain ability or someone is killed in their proximity? Maybe a guardian who can swap places with someone whose hp is below 40% or has three conditions on them.

“Honestly I dont think it’s that they removed one leg, but rather they crushed it to be very minuscule in comparison to the other roles and even incorporated it into the other roles so much that going full support would be kittening your team.

Support chars need more then just regeneration and random boon giving to be competitive."

You are 100% right, they didn’t remove it completely, which is why I think I’m (and probably many other “dedicated healers”) are so frustrated – they left just enough healing skills to make you think you can build a viable class, until you actually play it. Then you realise that your healing is miniscule compared to the burst damage your allies are getting hit with, and you’ve kittened yourself in so many other areas to maximise healing that you’re not really that effective in any other role. It’s not long before you start feeling like you’re taking up a team slot better spent on a dps or bunker build… which you sort of are.

good riddance to the dedicated healer. i can’t count the times on fingers and toes that i got slotted as monk simply because no one else wanted to and i wanted to be nice, when the reality is that i would have made a much stronger front or midliner (in serious pvp anyway). that’s time i had to spend covering for people who cba to kite, use a defensive set, or bring self heals etc.

as far as the burst or bunker idea, that’s really only the situation because of the limits of pvp format atm.

Removing healers did no such thing.

You wouldn’t even need DPS classes, as Conquest is about point control. You’d just play 3x tank 2x healer with knockbacks and roots. Once a point is yours, it’s not going away.

All your complaining stems from how Conquest is designed to favor extremities rather than more balanced specs.

Daays.4317:

Removing healers did no such thing.

You wouldn’t even need DPS classes, as Conquest is about point control. You’d just play 3x tank 2x healer with knockbacks and roots. Once a point is yours, it’s not going away.

All your complaining stems from how Conquest is designed to favor extremities rather than more balanced specs.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

I’m saiyng this since the Beta.
I have open several post like this, but nothing came back.

Players opinion about it, is split… some one yell “allow me to be healer” and some others answers “go back wow”… even if you’ve never played wow in your life.

Yes my friend, you are forced to play a build you don’t like… wellcome to Guild “Kitten” Wars 2, the game that killed GW1.

GW1= multy build, multyclass, you can do what you want, nice gpvp and balance.
GW2= just 2 build, only capture points

Want to talk about 0.125 healing power stat bouns, infinite healing CD and mo friendly target?
I can whine for hours about it.

I am one step close to leave play this “kitten” just DPS and Bunkers game.*

Daays.4317:

Removing healers did no such thing.

You wouldn’t even need DPS classes, as Conquest is about point control. You’d just play 3x tank 2x healer with knockbacks and roots. Once a point is yours, it’s not going away.

All your complaining stems from how Conquest is designed to favor extremities rather than more balanced specs.

You’re right in that part of it does stem from the fact that extreme builds are favoured over balanced ones, but you’re wrong about 3 tanks and 2 healers I’m afraid. It sounds great on paper, but in essence you’ll simply be pummeled by long range dps (I’d pit 2 gs glass cannon mesmers against a heal spec guard and ele any day) without having any damage of your own to compensate. If you’re defending a point it means you’re not mobile, and you’re simply inviting continuous attacks rather than threatening the other team. The 8 to 1 return rate on stacking healing power means it will always lose to dps by a large margin, so while you may last a while on point, you’re not going to stand up to a dedicated dps onslaught.

Leeain.2431:

I’m saiyng this since the Beta.
I have open several post like this, but nothing came back.

Players opinion about this is split… some one yell “allow me to be healer” and some others answer “go back wow”… even if you’ve never played wow in your life.

Yes my friend, you are forced to play a build you don’t like… wellcome to Guild “Kitten” Wars 2, the game that killed GW1.

GW1= multy build, multyclass, you can do what you want, nice gpvp and balance.
GW2= just 2 build, only capture points

Want to talk about 0.125 healin power stat bouns, infinite healing CD and mo friendly target?
I can whine for hours about it.

I am one stap close to leave play this “kitten” just DPS and Bunkers game.*

100000% this. I get my kicks from bringing a teammate on the brink of death back to full life, not seeing how many people I can get to ragequit by combo chaining an instakill nuke. If that’s not how you’re wired then that’s fine, there’s plenty of killing for you to do, but don’t shaft those of us who want to love this game but just can’t find a niche they truly enjoy, and for the love of God don’t claim that you’ve invented something wholly new and epic when you simply nerfed an entire category of class into non-existence.

Removing healers was a great move. Now if they could just tone down bunkers with too much mitigation/healing we could actually start to experience the PvP they originally envisioned.

Jeeber.2037:

100000% this. I get my kicks from bringing a teammate on the brink of death back to full life, not seeing how many people I can get to ragequit by combo chaining an instakill nuke. If that’s not how you’re wired then that’s fine, there’s plenty of killing for you to do, but don’t shaft those of us who want to love this game but just can’t find a niche they truly enjoy, and for the love of God don’t claim that you’ve invented something wholly new and epic when you simply nerfed an entire category of class into non-existence.

Problem is though that you can’t just add healers without affecting the game in any way. If you put a healer in, people will want healers, but most people don’t want to be healers. That means that a lot of people will be forced into healing. If you get your kicks from healing, fine. Go play a game where healers are incorporated into it. This game wasn’t made with them in mind. Just adding healers now would make balancing even more of a disaster than it already is.

To fix the problem of burst and bunker, the solution is to nerf burst, buff sustained damage, and nerf some of the defensive skills.

Im glad no dedicated healers. But GW2 at the moment is too high burst and too high bunker. IMO need to nerf bunker a little bit and stretch out burst longer. Then we’ll see the PvP anet intended. Hopeful 15 Nov patch will move closer to this.

Bunkers will be toned down as soon as conquest isn’t the ONLY PvP mode. When there isn’t a location that required one to bunker in, these specs will not be as necessary and the game will finally shine as it was meant to. I admire them for trying an objective based PvP archetype from the start, but you kinda need to stick with deathmatch to start out… it was a ton of fun in GW1. If it ain’t broke…

Healers exist, they just do all their healing by pressing F on downed players and being tanky enough to live while reviving. Other than that they just throw around aoe buffs and condition removal while waiting for people to die.

Ultimately this is a lot less fun and interesting than using a range of targeted support/healing skills to keep allies alive as you would in other games. It also limits the variety of targets in a team fight, since the ‘healer’ is also an unkillable tank and not a viable alternative to attacking the squishy dps.

Infectious.4836:

So many idiots QQ’ing about things Anet has been very upfront with from very early on in the game development.

How about instead of trying to heal the person from 1% hp to 100% hp, you try stopping the hp dropping that far in the first place.

I’ve been here since beta, and I knew there were no dedicated healers from the start, if you read my post you’ll realise I’m not QQing because I’m surprised, I’m saying they failed as promised to deliver anything new or interesting to replace healing. The “holy trinity” Anet claim to hate so much consists of tank/dps/healer. They said in place of that dynamic, they would provide something revolutionary. Instead, they provided us with tank/dps, so the same old formula, minus healer, with nothing apart from the dodge roll to make up for it. So I ask again, as people seem to be missing the entire point -whether you love or loath playing a healer, how does getting rid of 1/3rd of this trinity and replacing it with nothing make this a more interesting game?

Uh, they didn’t remove the trinity for PvP. The entire point of removing the trinity is so forming groups in PvE for dungeons was faster.

It’s not like it’s hard to form groups in WoW for PvP. You grab healers and DPS. Finding a tank for PvE has always been the hardest part.

just saying…it usually sux being an healer while everyone is having fun around….and i was prot monk in gw1…

I miss healing, and I know a few people who quit this game quickly because they can’t fill that role here. I didn’t like bads being carried by good healers, but they really need to re think how they want to move forward with what you can focus on in builds because it does dumb down the game in the long run to have support be an afterthought with only bunker and dps to satisfy people.

holy trinity was never the holy trinity. tank healer and damage dealer but every mmo and rpg has always been at minuimum 4 classes.
melee tank
person who can heal
ranged damage caster
melee other
but whatever

They got rid of the trinity in the way that in the games that used that system, practically all the survivability depended on the healer. In GW1, as a Sin, the Monks were always my prime target. Kill the healer and the enemy party crumbles in short order. Also there was the endless waiting for a healer, and all the rage at the healers who weren’t skilled.

Now that I think about it, if healers were in GW2, glass cannon burst Thieves out be an absolute requirement in any team. They’re role would be to kill the healer so the Thief’s team could steamroll the enemy.

ALL those who have played healers in others mmorpg (not only wow!) complain this “no healers” mechanic.
ALL the “wanna be slayer” are happy.

This is a fact.

What is happening in GW2?
We should make a step in the past and answer the main question:

Q: “Why no holy tinity?”
A: Because people can’t be forced to whait hours and hours of queue for make dungeons or pvp… and it is not good that a DPS can’t play if there is no tank or no healer.

Q: What Anet did for it?
A: They said “remove the HT” but they just removed Healer.
They creates self-sufficent classes so all classess are able to support the party… but in the end they can support just themselves.

Q: Wich build you can play?
A: You can be full Damage (glass cannon), you can be full Tank (bunker), you can be CC, you can be a factotum/support…
But…
You can’t be healer.

Q: How can we really solve this problem?
A: Not like Anet did.
In my opinion “REMOVE” is not the answer.
In my opinion they should ADD more options so every player can be happy.

I’m not talking about creare a dedicate classes. Classes like now are good.
I’m talking about builds…
Every class should cover every archetype (tank, healer/prot, melee dps, ranged dps, cc, support/buffer, condition spammer, summon minnions, etc).

Obiously some classes will be a little better in specific roles and some others will be better in others… but basically all the classes should be able to make everything (LIKE IN GW1).
I miss the necro/monk… i miss the war/paragon… i miss the ritu/monk… and yes, if I want to be healer with the warrior in GW1 I can (it suks, but i can…) and I can have minnion with the elementalis (it sucks too).
The point is: I WANT TO BE FREE

Q: If so, what will happen?
A: No more dedicated classes, no more H3… but you can play all the archetypes you want… for REAL and not like now.
So…
If a group want to play basic and standard Healer, Tank, DPS setup, they can do it… if not, or if there is no healer and tank in the party, every one can be self-sufficient or change build depending on the circumstance (LIKE IN GW1)… and in PvE we should respeck for free (LIKE GW1!!)… and split PvP form PvE skills (LIKE IN GW1).

In this way EVERYBODY can play all the time (no queue), everybody can use the build they want (not only Dps and Bunker), everyboy is happy (not like now).

Summarizing:
I WANT GW1 MECHANICS BACK AND I DONO’T WANT THIS!

Q: How can Anet do it?
A: First of all asking me to work with them… :P
Second, remaking game mechanics… rebalance the game… create more and more skills (LIKE IN GW1)… it is a lot of works…
Yes… it takes time and money.

Q: Will they do it?
A: No. I don’t think so.
GW2 is a step back from GW1…
Bye bye GW2.

Leeain.2431:

Q: Will they do it?
A: No. I don’t think so.
GW2 is a step back from GW1…
Bye bye GW2.

This.

To be honest, I’m thinking about going back to GW1. I’m excited to, even. So much more fun than this game, which didn’t even reuse one good thing from the first opus..

nurt.5401:

Healers exist, they just do all their healing by pressing F on downed players and being tanky enough to live while reviving. Other than that they just throw around aoe buffs and condition removal while waiting for people to die.

Ultimately this is a lot less fun and interesting than using a range of targeted support/healing skills to keep allies alive as you would in other games. It also limits the variety of targets in a team fight, since the ‘healer’ is also an unkillable tank and not a viable alternative to attacking the squishy dps.

I pretty much agree with this.

The removal of the “holy trinity” is, IMO, mostly a joke because it only offers an illusion of versatility. While professions can technically fill any role, there will always be some profession which can perform any given role better than some other profession – and this is unavoidable unless you homogenize the entire game into a single class or have a classless progression system akin to Ultima Online or other sandbox MMO’s.

You end up with a system where necessity is marginalized but efficiency is exaggerated – i.e. you can bring several professions for single target spike, but if you want the best possible single target spike in the game, there’s really only one choice regardless of build diversity. The same goes for any other number of roles – one profession tends to edge out the others in terms of its efficiency at that role, and there it is.

The difference is pretty apparent:

- In a game with holy trinity intact, every class tends to have a clearly defined place and plays a clear role with strengths and weaknesses that tend to be counterbalanced by clear roles of other classes. You’re stuck with what you have, but at least there’s a minimal sense of ambiguity.

- In a classless sandbox game, players have access to a common pool of skills and abilities which can be used to define (from scratch) whatever role the player wants to fill. The consequent system can result in multitudes of counters and counters to counters (TSW had the right idea but failed for several reasons).

- In a class-based game with no holy trinity, your efficiency with any given role relative to other classes is predefined regardless of the fact that you can, to some extent, fill any of those roles – meaning that the choice, ultimately, isn’t really a choice at all, which basically just combines the worst aspects of pure holy trinity and pure sandbox while limiting the diversity that the game claims to promote. Sandbox games sometimes have this problem as well, depending on how they’re designed.

The system helps with some things on the PvE side, but in terms of gameplay dynamics it’s hardly a step forward at all imo.

Jeeber.2037:

Infectious.4836:

So many idiots QQ’ing about things Anet has been very upfront with from very early on in the game development.

How about instead of trying to heal the person from 1% hp to 100% hp, you try stopping the hp dropping that far in the first place.

I’ve been here since beta, and I knew there were no dedicated healers from the start, if you read my post you’ll realise I’m not QQing because I’m surprised, I’m saying they failed as promised to deliver anything new or interesting to replace healing. The “holy trinity” Anet claim to hate so much consists of tank/dps/healer. They said in place of that dynamic, they would provide something revolutionary. Instead, they provided us with tank/dps, so the same old formula, minus healer, with nothing apart from the dodge roll to make up for it. So I ask again, as people seem to be missing the entire point -whether you love or loath playing a healer, how does getting rid of 1/3rd of this trinity and replacing it with nothing make this a more interesting game?

You seem to be missing the concept of control and mitigation.
Their will always be high damage no defense/high defense no damage classes, it is up to you how you deal with these classes.
You are given all(most due to game flaws which I won’t go into) the tools you need to overcome these.
Healing is not the way to overcome the effects of damage.
The best way to “heal” (negate damage) is to prevent the damage from occuring in the first place, always has been, always will be.
The biggest “fail” on Anets part is the broken way conquest works.
The holy trinity IS gone, it is your mindset that needs to change IMO.

:edit:
To clarfiy, I don’t mean this as an attack, I just think you need to see it from a different perspective.
You can largely ignore a “tank” spec person, just as easily as you can explode a glass cannon. The reason the 2 “classes” are required are due to the way conquest functions.
Hopefully a new game mode/re-working of the capture mechanic will see the player base slide to where I think Anet wants the game to be.

Infectious.4836:

The holy trinity IS gone, it is your mindset that needs to change IMO.

I agree with this.

The metagame is bunkers and burst because you let it consist of such. If people started running more anti meta builds in tournaments you would see a shift. Since people tend to stick with what works and not experiment, you just see the same builds being run, even when you could something else. I’m reminded of my time spent playing MTG were you have the top 3-5 decks to beat that make up the main meta, and then a few anti-meta builds that work because the people who made them really know what they are doing.

You can seriously run control and mess up both bunkers and burst builds, cause you prevent them from accomplishing much as long as you’re on top of your crap. The reason control builds aren’t popular is cause they are harder to play and require more player thought than exploding on someone for huge damage or bunkering.

That’s not to say there aren’t problems, such as some burst builds being way to explosive, and neigh-unkillable bunkers. But until some big names put up some vids on you-tube to show people the next new build people will be slow to change.

Numot.3965:

Infectious.4836:

The holy trinity IS gone, it is your mindset that needs to change IMO.

I agree with this.

The metagame is bunkers and burst because you let it consist of such. If people started running more anti meta builds in tournaments you would see a shift. Since people tend to stick with what works and not experiment, you just see the same builds being run, even when you could something else. I’m reminded of my time spent playing MTG were you have the top 3-5 decks to beat that make up the main meta, and then a few anti-meta builds that work because the people who made them really know what they are doing.

You can seriously run control and mess up both bunkers and burst builds, cause you prevent them from accomplishing much as long as you’re on top of your crap. The reason control builds aren’t popular is cause they are harder to play and require more player thought than exploding on someone for huge damage or bunkering.

That’s not to say there aren’t problems, such as some burst builds being way to explosive, and neigh-unkillable bunkers. But until some big names put up some vids on you-tube to show people the next new build people will be slow to change.

Yeah I agree too. A lot of people don’t seem to get that, you are the one that defines your own role in this game.
We need more players who stubbornly want to go against the grain and forge their own play style. Sure some tweaks from Anet could make it easier to branch out but only the players can change their play styles. And yes experimenting with untested builds in a competitive environment is hard, but once you find a style you can be proud of, you won’t only be winning, you’ll be winning with style.

The meta is what works best, and no you can’t deviate far from the meta stat wise since traits are tied to specific stat bonuses along with weapon skills tied to there perspective weapon. You just fool yourself thinking you have got some original build unlike any other but in fact it is just some variant with MINOR differences or in better words preference. Removing dedicated healers just removed a level of complexity to game play and substituted it for bubbling a downed player and hitting the F button. Anets response to removing dedicated healers is the downed state, which as everyone knows is the best thing about this game lol.

I do agree that something needs to change with the cap mechanic to make bunkers null and void. With the current system, it all but invites you to run bunkers and bursts.

Then next its mes portal that needs looking at.

Let’s face it, guys, removing the healer was a gutsy move. I almost always play healer classes because I like support roles, but I knew from day one that it wouldn’t work in GW2. Basically, we got what was advertised.

It makes things more difficult to balance, but not impossible. Standard trinity is easy to balance: everyone knows the assassin is supposed to be able to kill the healer in 1.5 seconds, and that the tank can last forever unless attacked by 3+ people at once. They’re still tweaking that here. It’s just plain harder.

The one thing that is difficult to swallow is the way every profession can spec for every role: I can have control-burst, or support-tank. I’d rather have to choose. I commend Anet for making every role viable for every profession (to an extent), but when it comes to PvP, I’d rather have my support professions be less tanky, and my burst specs depend on those controllers.

I play very offensive spec that is not based on burst at all and still do remarkably good in tournaments. (engineer)

NevirSayDie.6235:

Let’s face it, guys, removing the healer was a gutsy move. I almost always play healer classes because I like support roles, but I knew from day one that it wouldn’t work in GW2. Basically, we got what was advertised.

Sorry but that is just an OPINION. Not a fact. Imo it worked out pretty well.

In my humble opinion, kitten(rhymes with duck) healers – healing classes ruin every mmorpg game, because bad players that have a pocket healer do not need to be more skilled to win, all your mistakes are forgiven simply since dps can be now be outhealed instead of avoided by other means. Thank to smart development decisions on Anet, since if healers existed in this game it would be awful for pvp and pve: Tpvp – 3 bunkers 2 healers = always win.

Someone in my team said that the holy trinity is to mmo videogames what the sphere is to the physics, a perfect concept. I do agree with this: supports are just unnefective against high burst teams ( aka eclipsia ss, Oo, …. etc) so you are only left with the option to play burst urself or pure bunker setups. This is just true. BUT:

Removing healers did no such thing.

You wouldn’t even need DPS classes, as Conquest is about point control. You’d just play 3x tank 2x healer with knockbacks and roots. Once a point is yours, it’s not going away.

All your complaining stems from how Conquest is designed to favor extremities rather than more balanced specs.

Its certainly true. So its a hard decision what anet is facing here and i fear this can be the struggle for gw2. Conquest system ( wich i like ) + No healer ( wich i don’t like )

Make your bet.

Sadcleric (TNT)

Lukin.4061:

In my humble opinion, kitten(rhymes with duck) healers – healing classes ruin every mmorpg game, because bad players that have a pocket healer do not need to be more skilled to win, all your mistakes are forgiven simply since dps can be now be outhealed instead of avoided by other means. Thank to smart development decisions on Anet, since if healers existed in this game it would be awful for pvp and pve: Tpvp – 3 bunkers 2 healers = always win.

Yes I to applaud Anet smart choice for making such a flawless scoring system and point capturing system (1 person can deny the point vs 2 or 3).

What should happen with Trinity removed:
All classes should all be viable adjusting to have more then 1 role and all hybrids in between.

How the community thinks what should happen:
healing is trinity, REMOVE IT
tanking is OP, NERF IT
Burst dmg is to strong, NERF IT

So guess everyone wants every single profession to be sustained dps, all have the same possiblities, all have the same stats. Well, i guess that would be balanced, aside from the fact that everyone who asked for the nerfs would have left by then and left the dedicated players with barely a corpse of GW2

I do trust Arenanet though so i hope they do investigate something thoroughly before changing anything.

I commend Anet for making every role viable for every profession

depends, in pve they may all be viable, in pvp every profession is kinda stuck into 1 direction of role.

Alot of the people are for example thief using either Backstab or Clusterbomb, mesmer with shatterbuild, elementalist bunker abusing Evasive arcana (without that healing ele bunker would be UP as hell), bunker guardian, knockback bunker engineer, 100b warrior etc. etc.
Not saying EVERYONE plays those exact roles/builds, but i can say most of them do.

Not saying those people are wrong or something, yust saying those builds kinda push the less effective builds down alot.

This comment may not be viable after the 15th nov. patch though, so i will wait

It doesn’t. This whole thing is fundamentally flawed and they are going to have to give classes more pronounced themes, strengths and weaknesses if they want the game to be interesting and balanced for fights one group or larger. But I’m not sure they will bother since according to these forums, the PvP audience is made up mostly of people who want a WoW Arena-like experience. They should just make 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 deathmatch and be done with it?

People are going on about zerging but they really should be asking themselves why maps that support 10-20 people per side in every other game feel like complete chaos, chicken-head-cut-off-running and button mashing with just 8 people per side. But it again, won’t get much attention probably because people here will tell people who enjoy the type of play in scenarios in other games they should just go play WvW….

Zosk.5609:

It doesn’t. This whole thing is fundamentally flawed and they are going to have to give classes more pronounced themes, strengths and weaknesses if they want the game to be interesting and balanced for fights one group or larger. But I’m not sure they will bother since according to these forums, the PvP audience is made up mostly of people who want a WoW Arena-like experience. They should just make 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 deathmatch and be done with it?

People are going on about zerging but they really should be asking themselves why maps that support 10-20 people per side in every other game feel like complete chaos, chicken-head-cut-off-running and button mashing with just 8 people per side. But it again, won’t get much attention probably because people here will tell people who enjoy the type of play in scenarios in other games they should just go play WvW….

I wouldn’t say the whole thing is fundamentally flawed, but I agree it is fundamentally flawed for large-scale fights because there are no “priority targets” like in most MMO’s. “Trinity” fights are less hectic, even 10v10 or more, because the 3 dps on each team are trying to kill the 3 healers on the other team.

Here, everyone fights everyone, and 3v3 feels about as hectic as 10v10 in a traditional MMO setup.

Sorry, glad the healers are gone. Pretty sure most people got sick of trying to ‘out DPS the healer’. Thankfully gone are the days of 1 tank, 5 DPS and 4 healers in WoW PVP where one priest could essentially keep 2-3 people up indefinitely, let alone should you actually try to down the priest. They’ll just run around jumping and self-healing while laughing at you. No thanks.

There is plenty of healing and mitigation that we don’t need a class dedicated to doing it for us. My burst cannon thief still cant even chip off health from a well played elementalist and you want to add more healing? Duck no.

Also glad healers are not in this game, rather group up because its beneficial rather than mandatory.

I’m glad there are no 100% healers. If there were, then the answer to every situation would be to kill the healer, or at least focus them. Breeds a terrible predictability.

Eh, you’re assuming the worst case scenario of healing…. other games have already fixed this god-mode healer issue fairly well and this game could have learned and done better.

People keep saying the same wrong things and keep writing the same wrong answers…

1 – Nobody ask for a dedicated healer. Poeple like me ask just to improve the healing mechanics cause right now is like a (bad) joke.

2 – All of you are comparing GW2 with WoW… nobody is comparing GW2 with GW1.
Play GW1, go back GW2 and you will see how many steps back is GW2 compared with GW1, expecially the PvP.

3 – This topic is about Holy Duo… and yes… there is just Holy Duo.
Can some one please talk me about a not bunker or a not dps EFFICIENT, COMPETITIVE AND WORKING build?

4 – “No Holy Trinity” means “No dedicated Classes”… it means no dedicate healer… but no dedicated Tank and no dedicated Dps too!!!
It means that every class could do all the roles… but this is not happening! T_T
I can see only DPS and Bunkers.

5 – “No Holy Trinity” doesn’t mean “wrong healing mechanic and no healing system at all”… but people and Anet think this.

6 – Anet is killing GW.

Haku.5068:

I’m glad there are no 100% healers. If there were, then the answer to every situation would be to kill the healer, or at least focus them. Breeds a terrible predictability.

This was not the case in WoW, at least when I played (vanilla/tbc). For a team with a balanced mix of damage dealers (physical/magic, ranged/melee) there were usually multiple viable targets. You could pressure the biggest threat to your team, the target with the least defenses against your team, the person negating your teams damage (usually the healer, but sometimes control), or the person in a bad position. Rarely was it a foregone conclusion who you needed to attack, and your choice would yield very different results at different times in the game. The best target would often change depending on which team currently had the momentum and what cooldowns were up. Choosing when and who to control had similar considerations to take into account.

The thing is, in GW2 you don’t have anyone who can negate your teams damage, so that’s one potential target that’s gone. The people who sort of do some support are tanks, so they aren’t viable targets. Because of the way people can gear to extremes with no inherent penalty (full offense, full defense) the biggest threat to your team is almost always also the most vulnerable target, so there’s another option narrowed down. The fact that conquest is the gametype means standing in a circle often dictates your teams positioning, so there’s another potential reason to pick a different target diminished. On top of that, none of the control breaks on damage, so who you control is always going to be the target you’re DPSing outside of interrupting stomps, revives and guardian books.

Because the targets and the roles are homogenized and CC doesn’t break on damage teamfight strategy boils down to attacking and CCing the glassiest guy on the other team start to finish, or trying to aoe as many people as possible. This game has good 1v1 mechanics, but the group fights are kind of kitten.