The Honeymoon Period is over

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Posted by: tagnut.8621

tagnut.8621

Yes we understand you’re taking it slow, but mesmers and thieves account for the majority of classes played in spvp now.

Yes theres a reason for that.

Yes we’d like it fixed asap

Yes guardians and warriors we know you’re next for the fotm tag after them.

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Posted by: Chaos.5893

Chaos.5893

The majority of people are mesmers and thieves because people believe they are over powered, but they are not. Mesmers and Thieves are very good vs noobs, or new players that don’t yet have a strategy on how to fight them.

There is no problem.

Get better at the game

Illuminated One

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Posted by: Sanis.1096

Sanis.1096

where did you get this info? can you link a graph that shows this?

-Apinamies-
-rank 41 guardian-
-Desolation EU-

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Posted by: tagnut.8621

tagnut.8621

Observation.

And another yes – we know those who play overpowered classes always claim (a) they’re not and (b) those who can’t beat them are noobs.

Funny how much easier the game is when you play one though isnt it?

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Posted by: Kalar Meadia.8439

Kalar Meadia.8439

He’s making observations based off game rosters during prime time.

Which is hilarious because I’m seeing a huge spike in ranger participation, actually.

This isn’t a honeymoon period problem. This is a problem with the players not thinking through. The Meta is changing, however.

The more players play Mesmers and Thieves, the faster people are learning to counter them. Right now, games won are won by balanced teams, not by teams of FoM classes.

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Posted by: Kalar Meadia.8439

Kalar Meadia.8439

Observation.

And another yes – we know those who play overpowered classes always claim (a) they’re not and (b) those who can’t beat them are noobs.

Funny how much easier the game is when you play one though isnt it?

Nope, not easier at all actually. I have a better time on my condition Necro of late because people insist on playing classes that are weak against it.

Or Engineer. It’s funny playing a MMO version of Tristania.

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Posted by: tagnut.8621

tagnut.8621

Its rare to see a ranger or necro atm as thieves as mesmers are so much easier to be effective with. i am seeing a number of elementalist duos emerging running fotm setups that are quite nasty.

But mostly its thieves and mesmers as its common knowledge they are overpowered.

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Posted by: Kalar Meadia.8439

Kalar Meadia.8439

common knowlege is wrong, though people think that way, and then get stomped.

Again, pay attention to your win/loss ratio. Bads will play conceptually overpowered classes, but most will fail hard at them. You’ll find the balanced teams winning more often as people are already learning the counters to these so-called ‘overpowered’ professions.

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Posted by: tagnut.8621

tagnut.8621

I will accept that an organised team will perform better than a disorganised one, but equally an overpowered class will perform better than one that is not.

We know its going to happen – just can we have the thief/mesmer nerf sooner rather than later?

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Posted by: shrewd.5319

shrewd.5319

Only mesmers and guardians need massive nerfs. All other classes are fine.

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Posted by: Derps.7421

Derps.7421

Why can’t i win a 1v1 against a mesmer/gaurdain/thief!!!! I blow all 3 of my dmg dealing slot utility skills and i still lose!! Nerf everything until i can beat every class!!!

Dr. Professor Evil – Engi
Stunned Girls Can’t Say No <Hawt>

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Posted by: Payneful.7934

Payneful.7934

Only mesmers and guardians need massive nerfs. All other classes are fine.

You are almost right here. Mesmers and guardians don’t need massive nerfs. The problem is phantasms and retaliation.

The thing I’m seeing now is a mesmer in a phantasm build will spawn two phantasms from behind LOS to attack you (these days, greatsword and sword/pistol are used). If you are glass like the mesmer is, then half your health will instantly be gone because a phantasm is initially invisible to you when they are performing their first attack making it impossible to dodge. After this, all the mesmer has to do is stealth and hide behind LOS while summoning more phantasms. If the mesmer sees that you are far enough away from him or are attacking his phantasms, he will sit at max range attacking you with his greatsword until you target him again. Then he’ll just LOS, stealth and/or run away from you while re-summoning phantasms.

It’s possible for 2 or 3 guardians to sit on each other with infinite retaliation and do 550-800 damage passively with every strike to anyone that attacks them. Since guardians are so defensive they can easily take all the damage with all the protection and aegis they get. This, in addition to the large amount of damage guardians can already do with burns and direct damage attacks puts guardians over the top when they have such high survivability. Also whoever designed the spirit hammer should be shot.

Lastly, I feel sorry for rangers. Crossfire is probably the best ability in the game right now and any ranger build that doesn’t use crossfire as its main damaging ability is completely inferior to ones that do. So rangers are forced to press their “1” button once followed by quickness and a pet swap. If their opponent even thinks about trying to do damage to them, they have protect me and signet of stone to go invuln for 12 seconds while the game mindlessly auto attacks with crossfire for them. Long story short: buff greatword. All rangers which they could use it.

Payne [PTC] Thief
Pancakes To Celebrate

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Posted by: Derps.7421

Derps.7421

^really? rangers are under-powered? Crossfire is one of the most BS skills in this game. When its combined with haste its like a fricking machine gun that apply 10-25 stacks of bleeds. But it only applies if your at the side or behind!!!! NO acaully as long as your not directly infront of them it applies bleeds. Rangers are one of the best pvp classes at them moment

Dr. Professor Evil – Engi
Stunned Girls Can’t Say No <Hawt>

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Posted by: Kalar Meadia.8439

Kalar Meadia.8439

I will accept that an organised team will perform better than a disorganised one, but equally an overpowered class will perform better than one that is not.

We know its going to happen – just can we have the thief/mesmer nerf sooner rather than later?

This is presumptive, and poorly thought out.

Have you bothered going to each class forums and looking at the bug lists? Some of them are heavily crippeling.

Most functions of each class are working as intended, and the ‘nerfs’ your proposing are not nerfs so much as class-rewrites – and that stands to tick off more than just the sPvP hogs.

Most, not all, of the problems listed with this class are player issues. Yes, I said LEARN TO PLAY. Or more importantly, play the class for a while. Yes, it will seem easier at first, but when you start encountering some of the frustrations I have you’ll realize it’s simply a matter of people NOT playing the methods that counter you enough.

Mesmers are weak to:
Condition Rangers
Staff, Scepter/Dagger Necromancers
AoE/Survival Elementalists

A Mesmer can also easily get burst down if identified and not carrying blink or relying upon staff for defenses.

The problem is, people are playing a 1 v 1 meta right now. Meaning heavy single target damage and dueling. Why? People like pubstomping one another in hot join, and Thief and Mesmer have the best burst and DPS respectively on top of being elusive. NOT TANKY, elusive.

And anyone who plays any sort of competitive play realizes that elusive builds are best locked down, bled or AoEd to death. Apparently this slips past the MMO crowd, perhaps due to a lack of brain power, I don’t know.

Will Guardian/Mesmer/Theif get adjusted? Yes. Every class will. It’s early in the game’s lifespan, they’re always adjustments to be had.

Will they get ‘nerfed’ likely not. A shave off the top end of the damage like Thief’s heartseeker was to prevent kitten abuse. But otherwise you’re going to be just as frustrated with these classes as you are now, because their core mechanics are built to. Thief’s elusiveness is its defense and offense. Mesmer’s deception is its offense and defense.

Learn to play as a team and you won’t see the player’s strongest soloists be so common in matches.

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Posted by: Payneful.7934

Payneful.7934

^really? rangers are under-powered? Crossfire is one of the most BS skills in this game. When its combined with haste its like a fricking machine gun that apply 10-25 stacks of bleeds. But it only applies if your at the side or behind!!!! NO acaully as long as your not directly infront of them it applies bleeds. Rangers are one of the best pvp classes at them moment

I don’t think you actually read anything past “I feel sorry for rangers”

Payne [PTC] Thief
Pancakes To Celebrate

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Posted by: Valk.4013

Valk.4013

I went against a 5 mesmer team on legacy of the foefire. My team laughed at the beginning and continued to laugh at them as we won the game 500-25. OP classes OP yo.

I also feel sorry for the sorry blokes that lost to that team on forest.

(edited by Valk.4013)

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Posted by: Kalar Meadia.8439

Kalar Meadia.8439

You are almost right here. Mesmers and guardians don’t need massive nerfs. The problem is phantasms and retaliation.

The thing I’m seeing now is a mesmer in a phantasm build will spawn two phantasms from behind LOS to attack you (these days, greatsword and sword/pistol are used). If you are glass like the mesmer is, then half your health will instantly be gone because a phantasm is initially invisible to you when they are performing their first attack making it impossible to dodge. After this, all the mesmer has to do is stealth and hide behind LOS while summoning more phantasms. If the mesmer sees that you are far enough away from him or are attacking his phantasms, he will sit at max range attacking you with his greatsword until you target him again. Then he’ll just LOS, stealth and/or run away from you while re-summoning phantasms.

Ok, here’s an informed opinion, but not quite in the full of the scope.

There’s a reason why cheap mesmers like the one’s you describe are using Pistol/Greatsword, and it has very much to do with line of sight, or more importantly, pathing.

The only two Phantasems that can completely bypass line of sight is Berserker, who spawns in direct association to the target (Regardless of line of sight) and Warden, who obeys the same rules, but is rooted.

Duelist attacks at range, but spawns in relation to the caster. They have to run to you and hope they get in range before reaching Mesmer’s max illusion range (in which case they shut shatter regardless of cooldown.) This function is shared by every other Phantasem type.

The player who’s allowing themselves to be assaulted at range is doing a poor job persuing his targets. Get a roamer to push him out of his max range for his phantasems and he’s not a threat. That, or blanket AoE’s where you’re bunkering and keep an eye on where the duelists are spawning.

As far as adjustments in this vein. I’d be ok for a Line-of-sight requirement on iBeserker, so long as misfiring my illusions puts them on a shorter cooldown. Suffering the full cooldown because some sniping ranger of thief decided to duck behind a rock would be infuriating and class crippling.

iSwordsman and Duelist should be fire-able regardless of line of sight as it has to move to its target, and again, Mesmers have a limited control and summon range on all illusions. As far as adjusting these two in terms of damage, that’s going to be more trickey as we have several things factoring in on why they’re doing so much, and each individual reason is fair. Though, how about trading of one of the Illusion/Phantasm damage traits? We don’t need both as Illusions are kind of pointless damage wise. Either one of these traits can be changed into something different, and there’s your damage nerf.

As far as Mesmer’s elusiveness, THAT’s a learn to play issue. Again, most phantasms originate from a mesmer, so if you’re seeing phantasms walk around the corner towards you, go around the corner. I’d eat a larger cool-down for our blink (not phase retreat, blink.) considering it’s a stun-break + relocate, but I’d like to have a trade off for it.

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Posted by: Sabbathius.1465

Sabbathius.1465

Yes we understand you’re taking it slow, but mesmers and thieves account for the majority of classes played in spvp now.

Not to rain on your parade, but according to ArenaNet graph the Mesmers are THE LEAST PLAYED CLASS IN THE GAME. No matter how many there are in PvP, there are way, way, WAY more guardians, warriors, rangers, etc.

Your observations are wrong. That is all.

Having said that, I feel Mesmers need to be fixed, not nerfed. They have tons of traits and skills that simply do not function, some illusions are bugged, etc. Nerfing them before fixing them will simply wipe out the class as it will be utterly unplayable. Mesmers, as it is, are probably the slowest leveling class in the game as they lack any reliable and meaningful AoE.

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Posted by: Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

Yes we understand you’re taking it slow, but mesmers and thieves account for the majority of classes played in spvp now.

Not to rain on your parade, but according to ArenaNet graph the Mesmers are THE LEAST PLAYED CLASS IN THE GAME. No matter how many there are in PvP, there are way, way, WAY more guardians, warriors, rangers, etc.

Your observations are wrong. That is all.

Having said that, I feel Mesmers need to be fixed, not nerfed. They have tons of traits and skills that simply do not function, some illusions are bugged, etc. Nerfing them before fixing them will simply wipe out the class as it will be utterly unplayable. Mesmers, as it is, are probably the slowest leveling class in the game as they lack any reliable and meaningful AoE.

Pls post this…Arena net graph

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Posted by: Aelona.8572

Aelona.8572

Oh and while we are at it : Guardians are fine. Only classes that deserve nerfs imho are shortbow rangers and ofc engineers that are truelly over the top

-Aelona / -Sygmaelle / -Ghinbi

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Posted by: tac.2167

tac.2167

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Posted by: Larynx.2453

Larynx.2453

^really? rangers are under-powered? Crossfire is one of the most BS skills in this game. When its combined with haste its like a fricking machine gun that apply 10-25 stacks of bleeds. But it only applies if your at the side or behind!!!! NO acaully as long as your not directly infront of them it applies bleeds. Rangers are one of the best pvp classes at them moment

Literally one stack of confusion or having retaliation completely destroys a shortbow ranger. The rate of fire is actually its greatest weakness.

And countering their quickness burst is also ridiculously easy. Reflection can do a ridiculous amount of damage if they have autofire on.

Want to know something? I played a shortbow ranger build for a while. I thought Engineers and Mesmers were incredibly overpowered. Turns out it was just a profession that countered me. There’s a moral to this story.

(edited by Larynx.2453)

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Posted by: Yukishiro.8792

Yukishiro.8792

That graph is for the game in general not for sPVP where anyone who has played for even an hour or two notices Mesmers and Thieves make up about 50% of the total population.

It is ruining PVP right now. It doesn’t even really matter if mesmers and thieves really are OP or not. The game is not functioning well when 50% of sPVP players play two classes.

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Posted by: Sterz.2463

Sterz.2463

The majority of people are mesmers and thieves because people believe they are over powered, but they are not. Mesmers and Thieves are very good vs noobs, or new players that don’t yet have a strategy on how to fight them.

There is no problem.

Get better at the game

This argument never makes sense. If Mesmers and Thieves have that much more tricks up their sleeves, trickier to kill, do more damage, have more CC, etc, etc, than other classes, than something is wrong. I understand every class will have a different fighting strategy and thus the enemy will have to react accordingly, but so far its been noobs not understanding their fighting mechanic AND the fact that they have to high of damage for how tricky they are to kill (theives) or offer too much CC (mesmers).

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Posted by: Aelona.8572

Aelona.8572

Mesmers should have that much CCs. Right now people are still strugglin against phantasms mesmers (which is funny, because it’s the easiest build / orientation to kill in the entire game), I can assure you that the same guys will get totally obliterated by a mesmer who actually understood how the class is meant to be played.

Mesmer is a fully defensive class, so we have to be able to cc quite often and punish the attacks.

I saw maybe 2 mesmers heavily loaded with anti range skills and tons of cc / confusion / reflection. They did a hell of a difference, far more than any phantasm noob will do

-Aelona / -Sygmaelle / -Ghinbi

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Posted by: snaplemouton.1294

snaplemouton.1294

Because that totally shows the professions played in sPvP…
You only have to be level 1 to do sPvP. Usually, everyone got a PvE character as their main. Mostly warrior because… because it’s a warrior.

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Posted by: GankSinatra.2653

GankSinatra.2653

Yes we understand you’re taking it slow, but mesmers and thieves account for the majority of classes played in spvp now.

Not to rain on your parade, but according to ArenaNet graph the Mesmers are THE LEAST PLAYED CLASS IN THE GAME. No matter how many there are in PvP, there are way, way, WAY more guardians, warriors, rangers, etc.

Your observations are wrong. That is all.

Thats because mesmers are bad in pve. And as we can see from pvp, people roll the classest that are most effective.

I think you might need to do more ‘observations’ before you post next time.

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Posted by: Vaerah.4907

Vaerah.4907

Aelona

Mesmer is a fully defensive class, so we have to be able to cc quite often and punish the attacks.

I saw maybe 2 mesmers heavily loaded with anti range skills and tons of cc / confusion / reflection. They did a hell of a difference, far more than any phantasm noob will do

Fully defensive? Each summon hits me for 3.2k and I am full def traits specced with thoughness (and vitality) in every slot.

I wish I did 3.2k per summon in my offensive build.