Guild Wars 2

It’s insanely overpowered. The cooldown on it is irrelevant. Any small skirmish is immediately ruined when someone uses this. Lately it seems like any time I go off to catch something off the radar a mesmer will show up with moa and all anyone can do is zzzzzzz. Supreme anti fun.

Could be worse. At least it’s not AoE like Time Warp or Mass Invisibility.

I do find it funny how last patch nerfed phantasm cooldowns, which mostly harms the Mesmer class in PvE, and did nothing for things like Moa. Which IS fairly cheesy in at least that it kills so many other elite skills (like Necro Lich Form).

It’s definitely better than any elementalist elites but it’s never given me too much trouble either.

I like and hate moa, it’s an efficient way to counter bunker builds, which is why I don’t necessarily want it removed.

Ah yes, the bruised ego resulting from dying a few times because it’s too much to ask to figure out the cast animation and dodge it.

RUN AWAY!!!!!!

yes, oddly enough, if you get moa and turn tail, 90% of teh time you will live.

Odd how that works….

Cogbyrn.7283:

Ah yes, the bruised ego resulting from dying a few times because it’s too much to ask to figure out the cast animation and dodge it.

Dodge Wars 2: Nothing needs adjustment because everything is dodgeable

There are certain have classes and certain have not classes. Have not classes apparently need to dodge everything, Illu Duelists, the Immobilization Illusion, the Warlock, shatters and Moa Bird.

Dip Dodge Duck Dive Dodge

Fun game….

Man, wish I had unlimited vigor, eyes in the back of my head and the ability to see through stealth! Then Moa would never be a problem.

(cough).

Moa is no Op,only died 1/10 times while moa,just run away and dodge.The true op of the mesmers are tha illusions which deal massive dmg and can kill you alone while their owner literally is rolling a chigar and drinking coffe same time.Been in a situation like this where mesmers were just hiding on roofs and sended illusions to finish me off easily.

teviko.6049:

RUN AWAY!!!!!!

yes, oddly enough, if you get moa and turn tail, 90% of teh time you will live.

Odd how that works….

Also, the run away comments are cool, as if Moa Bird is super strong 1v1….

Moa bird is strongest in team fights like 2v2s. You can either stand there and die, or abandon ship while your buddy is focused fired out and the point is lost.

But sure, tell yourself running away for 10 seconds is a “victory” for you.

They’re typically not using Moa on the tanky type of the two of you, so yes, your ally should be able to survive the 10 seconds.

Or, he can disengage WITH you, back off from point, and simply reengage when you’re recovered. No one ever said your buddy was obligated to sit and take a beating.

I rarely die when moa’d tbh and i dont seem to lose any buffs because of it either.

Unless your a necro i say the issue is overhyped, timewarp is much worse.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen moa used well tbh. It’s either way too early so the victim can double evade and LoS for the duration without losing that much health or way too late when the battle was won and the Mesmer has just wasted the cooldown.

It is definitely cheesey, but unless you’re playing a Necro regularly (rare) and using the most ‘hurt by moa’ build with minions (even rarer) then there is little reason to complain.

As others have said it’s actually really easy to spot (if anyone stops for a while in pvp it’s probably time to evade/interrupt/LoS) and if you do get caught by it often it isn’t too hard to avoid a lot of incoming damage. Oddly I usually find that once the moa is over I usually own the mesmer, probably because they use damage cooldowns trying to kill me during, which are obviously coming so can often be avoided only for all my stuff to be ready to retaliate once my bird brained session is over.

Is the moa spell a reflectable projectile?

They ought to remove Moa and give elementalists a polymorph elite skill. The only decent elite skill for Elementalists in PvP is summon elemental. Mesmers have 3 good elite skills to choose from and elementalists have only one viable elite skill that they wish they didn’t have to take.

Benny Hinn.4759:

They ought to remove Moa and give elementalists a polymorph elite skill. The only decent elite skill for Elementalists in PvP is summon elemental. Mesmers have 3 good elite skills to choose from and elementalists have only one viable elite skill that they wish they didn’t have to take.

This. Eles seem to have better support skills than Elite skills.

I get Moa’d in teamfights plenty and rarely have an issue dodging and running away. Don’t stand there like a putz getting owned in the face just because you’re Moa’d.

You want a fight changer? Look at Timewarp. That can turn any 2v2 or 8v8 into a total slaughter for the team who has it.

Why our CC breakers are taken off the bar, when Moa’d?

If you can stun break basilisk poison you should be able to stun break moa.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Ah yes, the bruised ego resulting from dying a few times because it’s too much to ask to figure out the cast animation and dodge it.

You can really tell people who don’t PvP a lot when their answer for everything is ‘just dodge it xDDD’.

As a mesmer I don’t moa morph in plain sight unless I absolutely have to, I either stealth or summon a decoy for the stealth-like effect. A good mesmer will not let you see him preparing moa morph so stop suggesting dodge is a solution to every single thing.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Ah yes, the bruised ego resulting from dying a few times because it’s too much to ask to figure out the cast animation and dodge it.

I used to say this .. until I was fight with 4 mesmers vs 4 mesmers … all asura, and all clone/shatter-builds farting clones out on every move. I would honestly LOVE to see you come to that fight and prove your point
OT: I do think Moa is silly. But I think the only thing I get truly annoyed about atm is portal on Khylo. Sure, you can counter it, but the ways I have seen that done just seems a bit counterproductive.

phaeris.7604:

If you can stun break basilisk poison you should be able to stun break moa.

ba dum tsss

agree 100%

now basilisk is a potential wasted ulti, give moa same chance to fail…

LOL

no one would use moa if stunbreaks countered it

Zid.4196:

LOL

no one would use moa if stunbreaks countered it

no one use already basilisk.. welcome to the group

I remember Mesmers said Moa Morph is a 3-4 second casting time, so it can be easily dodged and if you don’t you are just bad. Now I laugh about it.

Zid.4196:

LOL

no one would use moa if stunbreaks countered it

You basically sum up what is wrong with mesmer thinking.

You can’t understand why being in moa is such a game changer and frustrating for the other player.

Look at all other elites. How would you feel if the rangers binding roots was unremovable and you couldn’t destroy it or get out of it for the full duration?

As it stands i can finish it in a button press.

Or if the elementalist tornado ignored stability. Would you like being perma knocked down for its duration?

sorrow.2364:

I remember Mesmers said Moa Morph is a 3-4 second casting time, so it can be easily dodged and if you don’t you are just bad. Now I laugh about it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moa_Morph

casting time 1s.

sorrow.2364:

I remember Mesmers said Moa Morph is a 3-4 second casting time, so it can be easily dodged and if you don’t you are just bad. Now I laugh about it.

I would like to see a video of you dodging MOA, until I do I will be the one laughing at your silly remarks.

Reduce the time being in moa to 5 seconds or give 50% reduced damage taken to the player being in Moa Morph, fixed.

@Shukran: I know. I was talking about Mesmers claiming Moa Morph was a 3-4 seconds casting time when casting time infos were hidden. And, if someone misunderstood, now I’m laughing about Mesmers’ claims.

Whatever happened to elite skills being the most awesome? So some elites suck. Why not ask for buffs to Basilisk or whatever, instead of asking for Moa nerf?

As for those who think mesmers don’t understand moa; newsflash: mesmers fight mesmers all the time. Moa doesn’t impress me at all when used against me.

@sorrow : i was reinforcing your opinion in case some mesmer come to argue

@zid.

Really? that’s funny, because when I see someone get moa formed i’ll make a beeline for them knowing the have no stun breakers/heal available and finish them off in 5 seconds and there’s nothing they can do.

At that moment the odds of the fight just swung in our favour. It’s that strong.

You and all the other forum warriors sure will.

Kalar Meadia.8439:

They’re typically not using Moa on the tanky type of the two of you, so yes, your ally should be able to survive the 10 seconds.

Or, he can disengage WITH you, back off from point, and simply reengage when you’re recovered. No one ever said your buddy was obligated to sit and take a beating.

Again, this is irrelevant theorycrafting.

I just pointed out its a 2v2 and you COMPLETELY ignored that while I am Moa birding you, my other buddy might actually be using his skills as opposed to just standing around.

Further more, any coordinated group of two, racing in on another two will have a cc train coordinated if they know they are using moa bird.

But yes, newsflash – bad players can mis-use good skills and be easily countered. That isn’t what everyone is complaining about.

@Oni: you can’t possibly think that the majority of complaints about Moa Bird aren’t from hot-join players who got moa’d and killed a few times. The skill might need a tweak, but a bit of effort and the majority of complaints could be avoided, whether it’s through more intelligent play or better teamwork.

How many threads just like this one result from someone getting emotional about dying just a couple times to an ability? How many times do people claim imbalance before they even really try to overcome an obstacle? Too many.

I don’t know if blind or aegis would stop moa. But the cast time is so long that you could easily do the following: DODGE, DAZE, KNOCK-DOWN.

Many stronger skills have longer cast times to balance out the skills effectiveness.

If you get hit by moa with a 5 second cast time, I laugh at you whether you are on my team or not.

MOA takes someone out of the fight for the duration: either by that player dying or by that player running away.
It is, in effect, nothing but a 10 second stun that you can’t break…

It should be countered by something.
I already used my dodges pre-emptively for that thief remember (think that was the strategy, right…)

Klinch.2964:

I don’t know if blind or aegis would stop moa. But the cast time is so long that you could easily do the following: DODGE, DAZE, KNOCK-DOWN.

Many stronger skills have longer cast times to balance out the skills effectiveness.

If you get hit by moa with a 5 second cast time, I laugh at you whether you are on my team or not.

Not following this entirely.
Just for clarification: are you saying MOA has a long cast time?
Otr are you saying it should have one?

If you get hit by moa with a 5 second cast time, I laugh at you whether you are on my team or not.

According to Wiki, Moa has 1 second cast time. So, things like Decoy→Moa would be virtually guaranteed to land.

If you burn cooldowns, yes indeed you can guarantee that you will cast it, BUT casting it does not mean it will land.
Because of so many passive buffs/auras around and if your target is already in fight, odds that he’s gonna dodge or use defensive stuff while you cast moa.

If I would change something I would reduce moa duration a little, Im pretty sure that will fix the qq around moa. But too low duration could make it totally pointless.

Finally, I don’t want to put oil on fire but im almost 150% sure it was 3 second cast time in the beginning, and it was really hardly castable in fight… Now its 1 second cast time so its easier to pull without using decoy or other evasive move first.

So 1.5 months of qq’ing about moa = stealth/undocumented boost for moa
Keep it going !!!
lol

Moa is even more op than some people are aware of.

Against necros:
1. Minions: kills every minion also the elite

2. Kicks you out of your form. Sounds not that terrible? Imagine you worked hard to build up enough life force to have a full bar to use your death shroud. Then you get moa morphed. You stay in death shroud but all bars are replaced by the moa abilities. You CANNOT cancel the death shroud. The whole life force gets spent. So you do not only get most likely killed but even after death you can start from scratch once more.

The game balance is just a bad joke.

Oni.6841:

Kalar Meadia.8439:

They’re typically not using Moa on the tanky type of the two of you, so yes, your ally should be able to survive the 10 seconds.

Or, he can disengage WITH you, back off from point, and simply reengage when you’re recovered. No one ever said your buddy was obligated to sit and take a beating.

Again, this is irrelevant theorycrafting.

I just pointed out its a 2v2 and you COMPLETELY ignored that while I am Moa birding you, my other buddy might actually be using his skills as opposed to just standing around.

Further more, any coordinated group of two, racing in on another two will have a cc train coordinated if they know they are using moa bird.

But yes, newsflash – bad players can mis-use good skills and be easily countered. That isn’t what everyone is complaining about.

Of course it gets ignored. Would you want to lose you I-Win button. In small skirmishes, as you said, like 2vs2 it is even deadlier. Just one snare and you can focus fire one target and it is 1 vs 2. End of the story

Klinch.2964:

I don’t know if blind or aegis would stop moa. But the cast time is so long that you could easily do the following: DODGE, DAZE, KNOCK-DOWN.

Many stronger skills have longer cast times to balance out the skills effectiveness.

If you get hit by moa with a 5 second cast time, I laugh at you whether you are on my team or not.

Like I said earlier in this thread, a decent mesmer will not moa you in plain sight unless he has no choice.

Zid.4196:

Whatever happened to elite skills being the most awesome? So some elites suck. Why not ask for buffs to Basilisk or whatever, instead of asking for Moa nerf?

As for those who think mesmers don’t understand moa; newsflash: mesmers fight mesmers all the time. Moa doesn’t impress me at all when used against me.

I’d rather see GW1-type elites, skills that aren’t ‘I win’ buttons and actually require you to build around them or help fill your build out. I find the disparity between the power and utility of elites to be a big problem when it comes to picking one, on one hand you have really powerful ones like pre-stability nerf guardian tomes and on the other had you have terrible ones like the engineer’s mortar.

To everyone saying “Just dodge it it’s not OP lol” I’d like to see you legitimately dodge a Moa cast in a 4v4 teamfight. You go up against 2 mesmers, a thief, and a guardian, and the mesmers each have two clones, spamming staff abilities (with animations very similar to moa) you’ve got two guys up in your face and we’re expected to just have our eyes glued on the mesmer for the 1 second, subtle Moa cast?

If the animation was more pronounced, okay, I guess. If the casting time was twice as long, okay, I guess. But as of right now in a frantic teamfight Moa is an I.W.I.N button. 1v1, Moa is easy to dodge, sure. But in teamfights, mesmers get out 2 moas, coordinated shatter burst, the mesmer team wins the fight. Every time.

This is coming from a guy who has been recently playing a ton of mesmer and is astonished that people don’t realize how laughably OP a shatter build + portal + moa is in tPvP. It’s the most valuable prof/build you can bring. Hands down.

Moa is dumb, no doubt about it. Mesmers are a very well-designed class, very fun and intricate to play, and they really reward mastery of the profession. But they’re just a little too strong right now. Aside from that, game is pretty balanced, imo. Just shatter builds, portal-repair (portal collapse is annoying as hell too, but isn’t REALLY overpowered… just very strong) and moa are the three of the most overpowered things in the game, and they all reside in one profession.

Oni.6841:

Again, this is irrelevant theorycrafting.

I just pointed out its a 2v2 and you COMPLETELY ignored that while I am Moa birding you, my other buddy might actually be using his skills as opposed to just standing around.

Further more, any coordinated group of two, racing in on another two will have a cc train coordinated if they know they are using moa bird.

But yes, newsflash – bad players can mis-use good skills and be easily countered. That isn’t what everyone is complaining about.

You’re the one doing irrelevant theorycrafting.

You assume much of your own team and little of the enemy team. You can anticipate a Moa and respond accordingly. The fact that you try to pass it off as an IWin button is telling of your inability to counter it in practice yourself.

What I am telling you is, in practice, it is the largest threat (usually the damage source) in a 2 v 2 that gets moaed. This leaves your defender (The bunker who is to assume the point when the damage roams on, the capability to defend the Moaed player.

What TYPICALLY happens is that you can burst down the Moaed target because the defender is too uncoordinated with his ally to make a move. However, an organized duo will hold CCs until the cooldown is burned or their own burst is ready. (Necro fears, Mesmer pulls/stuns, Guardian bubbles, Engi Supply drops, etc.)

But there’s no convincing your type that you can get better. You’re more of the opinion that you shouldn’t have to get better. You complain instead of adapting. It’s hiding under the meta and it’s actually a sad and common thing.

Now, should Moa get adjusted? Sure, again I’m of the opinion that Mesmer never should have had a polymorph, as it does not fit with their motif. But don’t sit here and tell me you can’t outplay a Moa. That’s just sour grapes.

@Kalar Meadia: I’ll drink to that post. Cheers.

Kalar Meadia.8439:

Oni.6841:

Again, this is irrelevant theorycrafting.

I just pointed out its a 2v2 and you COMPLETELY ignored that while I am Moa birding you, my other buddy might actually be using his skills as opposed to just standing around.

Further more, any coordinated group of two, racing in on another two will have a cc train coordinated if they know they are using moa bird.

But yes, newsflash – bad players can mis-use good skills and be easily countered. That isn’t what everyone is complaining about.

You’re the one doing irrelevant theorycrafting.

You assume much of your own team and little of the enemy team. You can anticipate a Moa and respond accordingly. The fact that you try to pass it off as an IWin button is telling of your inability to counter it in practice yourself.

What I am telling you is, in practice, it is the largest threat (usually the damage source) in a 2 v 2 that gets moaed. This leaves your defender (The bunker who is to assume the point when the damage roams on, the capability to defend the Moaed player.

What TYPICALLY happens is that you can burst down the Moaed target because the defender is too uncoordinated with his ally to make a move. However, an organized duo will hold CCs until the cooldown is burned or their own burst is ready. (Necro fears, Mesmer pulls/stuns, Guardian bubbles, Engi Supply drops, etc.)

But there’s no convincing your type that you can get better. You’re more of the opinion that you shouldn’t have to get better. You complain instead of adapting. It’s hiding under the meta and it’s actually a sad and common thing.

Now, should Moa get adjusted? Sure, again I’m of the opinion that Mesmer never should have had a polymorph, as it does not fit with their motif. But don’t sit here and tell me you can’t outplay a Moa. That’s just sour grapes.

Here is where you are wrong. I barely ever die in Moa because you are right, most people don’t use it right.

But gasp I am not actually a mesmer in real life, or an ele, or a guardian, or anything else. I just play this game and I can recognize a stupid mechanic when I see it. Not everything comes from my personal stake within a class.

How do I use Moa? As we assault a point, me and my partner pick who we want moa’d and who we want to kill, consider our CC’s, considering how likely they are to get a passive block etc.

And then I just go in and fight them normally, after all, I am on a mesmer, a class I think that is already strong compared to everything else. If they just die, I won’t use Moa, naturally.

If they are good, I flag that Moa is coming up for my partner and we execute, usually with moa coming out of stealth or just after the other class has already dodged something else on my bar.

And they are pretty much guaranteed to lose.

Can they dodge? Maybe. Can they block? Maybe. Can I beat them without Moa? Maybe. If I get the Moa off, can we really lose? Not really.

So what are my odds on Moa, 50%? 60%?75%?

Further to that, after they know I have Moa, how much worse are they in a battle to make sure they don’t get Moa’d?

It drives me nuts that people talk about how easy it is to counter something without actually understanding how to maximize the skill first. Supposedly, this forum is filled with pro dodgers that dodge everyone’s moa bird.

So once your reputation precedes you and I know you will dodge… why won’t I just cancel cast Moa Bird the entire time we fight? It costs me a fraction of a second while moving and you are dodging during it anyways. (Do I actually cancel cast? Not really because people can’t reliably dodge it. Can I ? Pretty easily, especially if I knew it would waste a dodge each time)

In GW1, it was “just interupt it”. And we learnt to just bury our defense in layers. Guardian/Blind covered Aegis covered Wards. Hell, Glyph of Lesser Energy just let you cancel cast.

The fact that counter exists does not balance something. Once everyone gets better, Moa just gets cancel casted until it goes through.

Kalar Meadia.8439:

Oni.6841:

Again, this is irrelevant theorycrafting.

I just pointed out its a 2v2 and you COMPLETELY ignored that while I am Moa birding you, my other buddy might actually be using his skills as opposed to just standing around.

Further more, any coordinated group of two, racing in on another two will have a cc train coordinated if they know they are using moa bird.

But yes, newsflash – bad players can mis-use good skills and be easily countered. That isn’t what everyone is complaining about.

You’re the one doing irrelevant theorycrafting.

You assume much of your own team and little of the enemy team. You can anticipate a Moa and respond accordingly. The fact that you try to pass it off as an IWin button is telling of your inability to counter it in practice yourself.

What I am telling you is, in practice, it is the largest threat (usually the damage source) in a 2 v 2 that gets moaed. This leaves your defender (The bunker who is to assume the point when the damage roams on, the capability to defend the Moaed player.

What TYPICALLY happens is that you can burst down the Moaed target because the defender is too uncoordinated with his ally to make a move. However, an organized duo will hold CCs until the cooldown is burned or their own burst is ready. (Necro fears, Mesmer pulls/stuns, Guardian bubbles, Engi Supply drops, etc.)

But there’s no convincing your type that you can get better. You’re more of the opinion that you shouldn’t have to get better. You complain instead of adapting. It’s hiding under the meta and it’s actually a sad and common thing.

Now, should Moa get adjusted? Sure, again I’m of the opinion that Mesmer never should have had a polymorph, as it does not fit with their motif. But don’t sit here and tell me you can’t outplay a Moa. That’s just sour grapes.

I’m gonna go ahead and assume that you’re a mesmer who uses Moa Morph. Also, you say the largest threat of Moa is in a 2v2 – have you tried a classic 4v4 mid fight in tournaments? Moa is absolutely deadly in that situation, especially in teams that run double-mesmer. Moa + coordinated burst = dead target, and good luck dodging a moa in a 4v4 teamfight when the mesmer casts it from stealth.

Maybe if you kept your utilities, maybe if the abilities were half-decent and didn’t lock you in place, maybe if you could still revive/stomp people in moa (not counting if your morphed during the cast, of course), maybe if the duration was half as long or the cast time twice as long, maybe then Moa would be balanced. As it stands, it is not. Once again, I’ve played lots of mesmer, as well as engineer and guardian. Moa morph is the most overpowered and broken skill in the entire game, bar none.

How can anyone possible deny that in PVP format 10 seconds of disable is unjustifiable?

Remember when Kalar mentioned that Moa should probably be changed? I do. I wanted to go ahead and put the reminder out there, because everyone seems to just be chomping at the bit to talk about how OP it is with elaborate examples to get us to admit that Moa should probably be changed.

Except we already did. We’re just more interesting in going out and improving instead of pigeonholing ourselves into impossible scenarios via written word and doomsday theorycrafting.