Guild Wars 2

I do not want to sound elitist, so I apologize in advance If I do.

I think the real problem with MM is not just the MMR or whatever, the problem is the pvp population who are skilled (mechanical,map awareness, rotations, pvp basics) only account for atleast ~20% of the people who que.

While the remaining 80% are either average, have no idea what they are doing, terrible mechanically, oblivious the other points except the point they are on, just started pvp, old pve players who jumped on the pvp train for the shinies, or a combination of all those.

So when the ~20% of the pvp population moves up in the higher divisions, the 80% are now on an FFA with random chances of getting the type of players that I mentioned.

My experience till ruby is very good, matched with ESL players or people who know about pvp, now when those players move up to diamond (either by winstreaks or luck or playing a lot of games) Everyone left in lower divisions will be a cesspool.

I had match that was 4v5 since the start in ruby and we still won.

TLDR: I think GW2 PvP population is comprised of majority of bad, average, plain out oblivious players, Hence you get MUCH MORE AWFUL games than decent ones.

Less than that. When the leaderboards were up I was at 91%. How do I know that isn’t good? Because I tried stomping a DH when the other team had two thieves and didn’t account for the possibility of getting interrupted with steal. The second time in the match the scenario happened I wizened up and used black hole to account for it. I also miscalculated when a scrapper’s reflect would be off cooldown and used a skill a tad too late so I had to switch to staff and disengage back to mid knowing further attempts to take the node from the scrapper would be bad for me. The longer a fight goes the better off the scrapper is as they have lots of abilities so something will likely be off cool down on top of their good passive defensive procs. Not saying they’re OP just tough to take a node from especially if they pass the technique check. If they fail the technique pass then you can safely engage them again, if they pass then you know you’re in for an unfavorable repeat of burst and disengage.

Exactly, its really so blatantly obvious now, no matter what algorithms you change, formulas, numbers, reality is the baddies and average players still outnumber good players by a ton, so the chances of getting a good match is very low UNLESS its the start of the season and you share the same division with the good/skilled players.

CONCLUSION The MM operates to bring you back to 50% but only on that premise on where you stand, how bout bringing you back to 50% but you are teamed up with that 80% of bad players?

StickerHappy.8052:

Exactly, its really so blatantly obvious now, no matter what algorithms you change, formulas, numbers, reality is the baddies and average players still outnumber good players by a ton, so the chances of getting a good match is very low UNLESS its the start of the season and you share the same division with the good/skilled players.

CONCLUSION The MM operates to bring you back to 50% but only on that premise on where you stand, how bout bringing you back to 50% but you are teamed up with that 80% of bad players?

Yep, everytime i win with people in my division vs other people from the same division, the game puts me into premades with a mix of ruby, emerald, amber you name it vs full ruby team. The result is as expected. The mm tries incredible hard to give you a 50% winrate. Thus far, i havent won one single game with premades of that mix VS a whole team of my division. Its actually blowouts…like 150 points vs 500 when i get that crap. Bring back soloq pls.

sanctuary.1068:

StickerHappy.8052:

Exactly, its really so blatantly obvious now, no matter what algorithms you change, formulas, numbers, reality is the baddies and average players still outnumber good players by a ton, so the chances of getting a good match is very low UNLESS its the start of the season and you share the same division with the good/skilled players.

CONCLUSION The MM operates to bring you back to 50% but only on that premise on where you stand, how bout bringing you back to 50% but you are teamed up with that 80% of bad players?

Yep, everytime i win with people in my division vs other people from the same division, the game puts me into premades with a mix of ruby, emerald, amber you name it vs full ruby team. The result is as expected. The mm tries incredible hard to give you a 50% winrate. Thus far, i havent won one single game with premades of that mix VS a whole team of my division. Its actually blowouts…like 150 points vs 500 when i get that crap. Bring back soloq pls.

Yea, but to be fair the Matchmaking only does what it intends to do, bring you back 50%, here is where the dilemma starts, pvp does not have that large population with good players, majority are bad, hence you get more one sided matchups.

StickerHappy.8052:

sanctuary.1068:

StickerHappy.8052:

Exactly, its really so blatantly obvious now, no matter what algorithms you change, formulas, numbers, reality is the baddies and average players still outnumber good players by a ton, so the chances of getting a good match is very low UNLESS its the start of the season and you share the same division with the good/skilled players.

CONCLUSION The MM operates to bring you back to 50% but only on that premise on where you stand, how bout bringing you back to 50% but you are teamed up with that 80% of bad players?

Yep, everytime i win with people in my division vs other people from the same division, the game puts me into premades with a mix of ruby, emerald, amber you name it vs full ruby team. The result is as expected. The mm tries incredible hard to give you a 50% winrate. Thus far, i havent won one single game with premades of that mix VS a whole team of my division. Its actually blowouts…like 150 points vs 500 when i get that crap. Bring back soloq pls.

Yea, but to be fair the Matchmaking only does what it intends to do, bring you back 50%, here is where the dilemma starts, pvp does not have that large population with good players, majority are bad, hence you get more one sided matchups.

It doesnt work well with the pipsystem tho. Its one thing to give me bad players from the same division than giving me that mix of divisions of premades everytime. Its litterally, several times a day i get that matchup. Its discouraging when i soloq and get that, i honestly see no other way than duoq or team up anymore. Sad story.

StickerHappy.8052:

I do not want to sound elitist, so I apologize in advance If I do.

I think the real problem with MM is not just the MMR or whatever, the problem is the pvp population who are skilled (mechanical,map awareness, rotations, pvp basics) only account for atleast ~20% of the people who que.

While the remaining 80% are either average, have no idea what they are doing, terrible mechanically, oblivious the other points except the point they are on, just started pvp, old pve players who jumped on the pvp train for the shinies, or a combination of all those.

So when the ~20% of the pvp population moves up in the higher divisions, the 80% are now on an FFA with random chances of getting the type of players that I mentioned.

My experience till ruby is very good, matched with ESL players or people who know about pvp, now when those players move up to diamond (either by winstreaks or luck or playing a lot of games) Everyone left in lower divisions will be a cesspool.

I had match that was 4v5 since the start in ruby and we still won.

TLDR: I think GW2 PvP population is comprised of majority of bad, average, plain out oblivious players, Hence you get MUCH MORE AWFUL games than decent ones.

not to sound like an kitten but this just isnt true. there are good players that get stuck with bad player and just cant advance you have no idea what it is like looking at the map and watching your team do the stupidest things .do i bump into players i have trouble beating or just cant beat sure but not has often has i do people i do beat. killing and getting caps only to watch your team ether 1.drop like fly’s 2. do not fight on point or just zerg. i apologize if i can not carry a team . i now know personal score means absolutely nothing . i have bumped into many that were in Diamond last season yet stuck in sapphire or ruby

trunks.5249:

StickerHappy.8052:

I do not want to sound elitist, so I apologize in advance If I do.

I think the real problem with MM is not just the MMR or whatever, the problem is the pvp population who are skilled (mechanical,map awareness, rotations, pvp basics) only account for atleast ~20% of the people who que.

While the remaining 80% are either average, have no idea what they are doing, terrible mechanically, oblivious the other points except the point they are on, just started pvp, old pve players who jumped on the pvp train for the shinies, or a combination of all those.

So when the ~20% of the pvp population moves up in the higher divisions, the 80% are now on an FFA with random chances of getting the type of players that I mentioned.

My experience till ruby is very good, matched with ESL players or people who know about pvp, now when those players move up to diamond (either by winstreaks or luck or playing a lot of games) Everyone left in lower divisions will be a cesspool.

I had match that was 4v5 since the start in ruby and we still won.

TLDR: I think GW2 PvP population is comprised of majority of bad, average, plain out oblivious players, Hence you get MUCH MORE AWFUL games than decent ones.

not to sound like an kitten but this just isnt true. there are good players that get stuck with bad player and just cant advance you have no idea what it is like looking at the map and watching your team do the stupidest things .do i bump into players i have trouble beating or just cant beat sure but not has often has i do people i do beat. killing and getting caps only to watch your team ether 1.drop like fly’s 2. do not fight on point or just zerg. i apologize if i can not carry a team . i now know personal score means absolutely nothing . i have bumped into many that were in Diamond last season yet stuck in sapphire or ruby

EXACTLY MY POINT. You know why good players get stuck? because the probability of them getting teamed up with BADDIES is Higher because the bad population outnumber the good.

That is the point. My point is also accentuated when the good players (who were lucky, had the time to grind, etc) are in higher divisions.

So who are those in lower divisions with the casual skilled players?

PI-PONG. You guessed it.

exactly, and it is not fun.

it has not been in s1, s2 and it is not now in s3
(for me it was exactly this struggle and i refuse to group up and stuff ^^)

it is a struggle – no class feels complete…
it is like each and every class is LACKING – it is not smooth anymore at all

now one can carry more or less with whichever class, swap, get groups going and all that.. play a lot of games yadda yadda… to get ranks whatever

however i don’t want to do that – what i want to do is play i.e.
a gs power nec and have fun with it – but i can’t
(not viable, matchmaking, mmr, etc. etc.)

i don’t have a problem with loosing when playing vs players that outskill me.
what i have a major problem with is loosing when i outskill the enemy but it’s like 3vs7 because of the ppl grouped together in a team.

for me the game has the best mmorpg pvp mechanics so far of all games on market
(past to present)

unfortunatelly the quality declined for me since the time that ranked ladder froze
(and then disappeared)

and population / qtimes is a big issue.

basically starting tuesday it is overwatch for me and gw2 will be shelved.
the fun time spent in open beta is what gaming should be about. ;-)

That’s what happens when you have a PvE reward in PvP.

Anyone could have seen this coming from a mile away when The Ascension was announced.

Substance E.4852:

That’s what happens when you have a PvE reward in PvP.

Anyone could have seen this coming from a mile away when The Ascension was announced.

Actually it is a PVP reward.

The problem is there is no gate for it so that it should be a pvp exclusive option.

Like map completion in PvE. There should have been a gate of some sort so we could filter people who has no idea of how pvp works.

May I ask what you mean by “grinding to the higher divisions”? As it occurs to me, if you have 15 losses and 15 wins you’ll basically still be in the same spot, due to losing pips and tiers, or just pips.

I can imagine getting an extremely lucky 3 win streak in Emerald occasionally, so with enough games, probability will be on your side to get out of Emerald, but achieving anything above a winning streak of 3 has like astronomically low probability as I see it.

Especially if the matchmaking is really tailored for a 50% win-lose ratio.

StickerHappy.8052:

Substance E.4852:

That’s what happens when you have a PvE reward in PvP.

Anyone could have seen this coming from a mile away when The Ascension was announced.

Actually it is a PVP reward.

The problem is there is no gate for it so that it should be a pvp exclusive option.

Like map completion in PvE. There should have been a gate of some sort so we could filter people who has no idea of how pvp works.

As a PVPer (only PVP) i have 300g , no t6 mats … and so i have everything for those super wings but cant afford the crafting mats or be assed into farming those or use rl money

imho it is therefor a PVE reward partially gained by PVPing….

All is Vanity

Agyaggalamb.4796:

May I ask what you mean by “grinding to the higher divisions”? As it occurs to me, if you have 15 losses and 15 wins you’ll basically still be in the same spot, due to losing pips and tiers, or just pips.

I can imagine getting an extremely lucky 3 win streak in Emerald occasionally, so with enough games, probability will be on your side to get out of Emerald, but achieving anything above a winning streak of 3 has like astronomically low probability as I see it.

Especially if the matchmaking is really tailored for a 50% win-lose ratio.

What I mean by grinding is playing a lot of games in order to advance, does not matter if you lose a lot, it just means you have higher chances of advancing.

A lot of people do not have that luxury of time to play a large number of games.

Second point is, everything is a matter of playing a lot especially until ruby because you do not lose tiers.

Ghede.9145:

StickerHappy.8052:

Substance E.4852:

That’s what happens when you have a PvE reward in PvP.

Anyone could have seen this coming from a mile away when The Ascension was announced.

Actually it is a PVP reward.

The problem is there is no gate for it so that it should be a pvp exclusive option.

Like map completion in PvE. There should have been a gate of some sort so we could filter people who has no idea of how pvp works.

As a PVPer (only PVP) i have 300g , no t6 mats … and so i have everything for those super wings but cant afford the crafting mats or be assed into farming those or use rl money

imho it is therefor a PVE reward partially gained by PVPing….

All is Vanity

The mats can be gained by laurels, no PvEing involved.

All you have to do is login.

i dont think i have enough laurels for 250 of all those t6 mats needed ^^

Ghede.9145:

i dont think i have enough laurels for 250 of all those t6 mats needed ^^

Get laurels, sell the mats, then buy what you need, since you get random mats there. Also you gain gold in winning matches, sell mats when you salvage the chests that you get. Easy. Sell Exotics.

Not to mention you also get t6 Mats randomly from the pvp chests you get.

StickerHappy.8052:

Ghede.9145:

i dont think i have enough laurels for 250 of all those t6 mats needed ^^

Get laurels, sell the mats, then buy what you need, since you get random mats there. Also you gain gold in winning matches, sell mats when you salvage the chests that you get. Easy. Sell Exotics.

Not to mention you also get t6 Mats randomly from the pvp chests you get.

Yeah and that’s all “PVE stuff” ;-))

q.e.d.

Ghede.9145:

StickerHappy.8052:

Ghede.9145:

i dont think i have enough laurels for 250 of all those t6 mats needed ^^

Get laurels, sell the mats, then buy what you need, since you get random mats there. Also you gain gold in winning matches, sell mats when you salvage the chests that you get. Easy. Sell Exotics.

Not to mention you also get t6 Mats randomly from the pvp chests you get.

Yeah and that’s all “PVE stuff” ;-))

q.e.d.

The point is you get them in pvp, noone is forcing you to pve for it.

PS: Pls stop derailing the thread.

And reply to the original intent.

I think this is a problem with the foundations of GW2. Anyone can be reasonably effective in PvP, just point your reaper in the right direction and you’ll probably kill something. But to become more than just effective, to be good, you have to understand a ludicrous amount of information. There are how many traits and utilities and weapon skills and profession mechanics? Thousands? And everything is all going off at the same time if a blinding flash of graphics. And you need to understand more than the effects, but when people are likely to use abilities and why. (“He just swapped weapons and used a profession mechanic, he must have just used his condi clear, could I can put a condi bomb on him? But the ele next to him has stabilty and a group condi cleanse ready.”)

To make sense of PvP is sort of insane. So most people are just mildly effective (“I feel like using my condi bomb, let’s see what happens.”) and don’t really understand everything that is going on.

StickerHappy.8052:

Ghede.9145:

StickerHappy.8052:

Ghede.9145:

i dont think i have enough laurels for 250 of all those t6 mats needed ^^

Get laurels, sell the mats, then buy what you need, since you get random mats there. Also you gain gold in winning matches, sell mats when you salvage the chests that you get. Easy. Sell Exotics.

Not to mention you also get t6 Mats randomly from the pvp chests you get.

Yeah and that’s all “PVE stuff” ;-))

q.e.d.

The point is you get them in pvp, noone is forcing you to pve for it.

I’m not saying u dont have to PVP to get them….. u get them partially by getting “PVEy-achieves” (like the wins on different classes (grindy stuff, not really skill) while pvping AND with crafting mats

Like u dont get the wings in your mailbox for hitting Prestige 15 in one season
or other stuff (hot streak of 10 in diamond , etc. etc.)

So underneath the reward track itself is a PVE thing the way it is currently designed.

StickerHappy.8052:

PS: Pls stop derailing the thread.

And reply to the original intent.

pps:

I did , however you answered only on that Wings stuff ;-)

So.. drop it yourself and don’t try to cut me off that way,
when you are tossing around arguments yourself
→ trying to make a point on the Wings being a PVP reward.

Fluffball.8307:

I think this is a problem with the foundations of GW2. Anyone can be reasonably effective in PvP, just point your reaper in the right direction and you’ll probably kill something. But to become more than just effective, to be good, you have to understand a ludicrous amount of information. There are how many traits and utilities and weapon skills and profession mechanics? Thousands? And everything is all going off at the same time if a blinding flash of graphics. And you need to understand more than the effects, but when people are likely to use abilities and why. (“He just swapped weapons and used a profession mechanic, he must have just used his condi clear, could I can put a condi bomb on him? But the ele next to him has stabilty and a group condi cleanse ready.”)

To make sense of PvP is sort of insane. So most people are just mildly effective and don’t really understand everything that is going on.

I completely agree. We can also add that getting better in fighting against other classes may need you to actually to play the class to understand their mechanics.

The leagues are not helping that at all on top a “elusive MMR system” that we have no idea how it accurately works.

The leagues will never work unless you get a decent player base that is big enough to make experience enjoyable for most.

As it stands now, the people who will reach legendary will the only ones who will get positive experiences and the others remain in the cesspool.

Do not get me wrong, Legendary experience will still have those baddies that for some reason managed to escape from drowning in that cesspool.

that’s a major issue as well, u DONT really get good quality games in legendary…

actually it is the least competitive part because the prestige should show the top dunno 300 ? not just 5 (because who knows why there is no ranked ladder ;-((

climbing to legend is more “competitive” than being in legend itself

and that is the most toxic thing for legend division as it
further influences matchmaking in a bad way

Where are u getting those numbers OP?

Well op, you are an elitist. But I think you have the right to be so.

I am not a very good pvp player. Hell, I am not even above average in most professions except 2 of them. And even with them I can never be a pro pvp player, which I have no desire to be. That is why when I want to play pvp, I usually go unranked if I am not playing with my mains. But most of the people do not do that.

This game needs seperate ranking for characters a player has. You might be the perfect thief, but you might suck at warrior. This will also discourage the casual players like me to follow spvp, where we will be bored too quickly to advance properly, but be able to play with different characters in low lvls.

There are serious issues in this game, powercreep, balance, bugs etc. But those are not what you are talking about so I will not mention them in length. I know what I am saying will destroy the pvp population but I honestly do not like pvp so can not produce something better than this.

Have a nice night/day

StickerHappy.8052:

Substance E.4852:

That’s what happens when you have a PvE reward in PvP.

Anyone could have seen this coming from a mile away when The Ascension was announced.

Actually it is a PVP reward.

It may be a PvP reward in the sense that you have to complete pvp to get it but it’s main appeals of the legendary stat swapping and legendary status are essentially PvE elements.

In PvP, being able to play well comes far before having expensive gear or half a dozen auras.

PvE’ers didn’t flood the mode when they added new HoT themed rank finishers nor would they if Anet added more pvp exclusive finishers in the future.

The same exact effect occurred in every WvW tournament. PvE’ers flooded the mode to get the achievements and the rewards.

TLDR: Put something exclusive in your mode that PvE’ers will want and they will flood the mode. A vast majority of the people who PvE wouldn’t give 2 kittens about Leagues if the wings and nameplate icons didn’t exist.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Where are u getting those numbers OP?

From my wording I thought you would’ve picked up I was estimating. This is based on my pvp experience with doing the leagues.

I mean look at it this way:

Perspective 1:

AGs, ESLS, Pro league are always the same people, Abjured is still the number one team because they are the only team that stuck together for a very long time on top their pvp prowess.

So wouldn’t that tell you how small the skilled/top/pro scene we have?

Perspective 2:

Do you see the people who complain about matchmaking during season 1 and 2 are the SAME people who are complaining about it now? How many people are still stuck at amber and emerald?

Why are they stuck? Incompetent teammates, players who might be worse than them, pug vs premade. But again to the point, most decent players will be ruby at least by now.

So who are the people at amber – sapphire?

Substance E.4852:

StickerHappy.8052:

Substance E.4852:

That’s what happens when you have a PvE reward in PvP.

Anyone could have seen this coming from a mile away when The Ascension was announced.

Actually it is a PVP reward.

It may be a PvP reward in the sense that you have to complete pvp to get it but it’s main appeals of the legendary stat swapping and legendary status are essentially PvE elements.

In PvP, being able to play well comes far before having expensive gear or half a dozen auras.

PvE’ers didn’t flood the mode when they added new HoT themed rank finishers nor would they if Anet added more pvp exclusive finishers in the future.

The same exact effect occurred in every WvW tournament. PvE’ers flooded the mode to get the achievements and the rewards.

TLDR: Put something exclusive in your mode that PvE’ers will want and they will flood the mode. A vast majority of the people who PvE wouldn’t give 2 kittens about Leagues if the wings and nameplate icons didn’t exist.

That’s why the Leagues itself should be GATED

Make it:

Entry to participate in the leagues will require atleast 2,000 ranked pvp games

Problem solved.

But doing this will only desaturate the 80% of the pvp population even more, resulting in longer que times.

alain.1659:

Well op, you are an elitist. But I think you have the right to be so.

I am not a very good pvp player. Hell, I am not even above average in most professions except 2 of them. And even with them I can never be a pro pvp player, which I have no desire to be. That is why when I want to play pvp, I usually go unranked if I am not playing with my mains. But most of the people do not do that.

This game needs seperate ranking for characters a player has. You might be the perfect thief, but you might suck at warrior. This will also discourage the casual players like me to follow spvp, where we will be bored too quickly to advance properly, but be able to play with different characters in low lvls.

There are serious issues in this game, powercreep, balance, bugs etc. But those are not what you are talking about so I will not mention them in length. I know what I am saying will destroy the pvp population but I honestly do not like pvp so can not produce something better than this.

Have a nice night/day

I completely understand your point. The problem is with the design of Achievments you need to do in leagues.

You have to win 10 ranked games in 3 professions in Part IV, which only forces players to play a class that they have no idea or mastery with it.

Making again the pvp experience stupid.

The real problem with MM is the same as it has always been – people are simply not as good as they think they are.

No one wants to admit that they are a Ruby level player. Within the 80% of average players that the OP mentions, about half think they are pro. They freak out and get furious when they lose matches and blame teammates.

Newsflash: if you are on a 20 game losing streak – it’s your fault. 100% your fault. Stop doing what you did for the last 20 matches and do something different. Play a different class, attack a different point, employ a different strategy… but please do something different.

Newsflash: if you are on a 20 game losing streak – you are not “legendary”. Stop assuming you belong there. I know for a fact that I do not, nor would I whine about a MM system as being the reason I lose matches.

I wish Anet would use some tough love and let the whiners know that not everyone is elite.

Threat.7450:

The real problem with MM is the same as it has always been – people are simply not as good as they think they are.

No one wants to admit that they are a Ruby level player. Within the 80% of average players that the OP mentions, about half think they are pro. They freak out and get furious when they lose matches and blame teammates.

Newsflash: if you are on a 20 game losing streak – it’s your fault. 100% your fault. Stop doing what you did for the last 20 matches and do something different. Play a different class, attack a different point, employ a different strategy… but please do something different.

Newsflash: if you are on a 20 game losing streak – you are not “legendary”. Stop assuming you belong there. I know for a fact that I do not, nor would I whine about a MM system as being the reason I lose matches.

I wish Anet would use some tough love and let the whiners know that not everyone is elite.

Although I get your point,

PVP is a TEAM GAME

if you get a 20 match losing streak, you might be at fault, but not entirely too, you see, you have to play as a TEAM. You cannot just blame an individual for it.

The problem of MMR is just it is terrible at putting together similar player skills on 1 side. I’ve had games with PZ/Abjured players in this and past season and I am nowhere near their level and would lose 1v1 every fight against them yet I am on their team (sometimes they vs me and I lose 500-10 but that’s a diff story).

If you are an average PvP player then you might get a really bad player on your side or a really good player on your side and it just feels kinda pointless when matches get decided by who you get rather than what you can do personally. Sure I might tilt a 450-500 match my way but as I posted in another thread, 70% of my games are not competitive (and I was winning 70%).

This season I’ve rolled teams with core staff guardians and 3 signet core rangers and stuff like that. There really isn’t much you can do when other people aren’t up to snuff and it becomes a 4v6 (literally a liability).

You can argue that I am not that good of a PvPer and I’d agree. However, I have over 4000 PvP games, over 2500 Ranked games and played PvP on and off since before solo q got removed and rank 80 was easily achievable. Even during the solo q leaderboards I’d be consistently top 100 but I guess that’s not really the important thing here. The important thing is I’ve played a lot of PvP, I generally know what I am doing even if I am not the best player but my teams I can have people that have no clue at all. It’s just frustrating.

So the past 2 season I both hit really high tier ruby then real life (aka 3rd year electrical engineering) came and I had to stop playing. Like I can hit diamond pretty easily if I kept going as my ruby games were up against most diamonds and I had a decent win rate.

So anyways, I got advanced placement into emerald and I thought it would be pretty fast to get out but guess what happened. I had games where 4 people camped mid at the start of the game and 3 people went to camp for the initial beast spawn. I was pretty much borderline diamond the last 2 seasons and what did I do to deserve this.

StickerHappy.8052:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Where are u getting those numbers OP?

From my wording I thought you would’ve picked up I was estimating. This is based on my pvp experience with doing the leagues.

I mean look at it this way:

Perspective 1:

AGs, ESLS, Pro league are always the same people, Abjured is still the number one team because they are the only team that stuck together for a very long time on top their pvp prowess.

So wouldn’t that tell you how small the skilled/top/pro scene we have?

Perspective 2:

Do you see the people who complain about matchmaking during season 1 and 2 are the SAME people who are complaining about it now? How many people are still stuck at amber and emerald?

Why are they stuck? Incompetent teammates, players who might be worse than them, pug vs premade. But again to the point, most decent players will be ruby at least by now.

So who are the people at amber – sapphire?

Still seems not quite reliable really.

Pro=/=all skilled players in a game. Even with a small pro league scene. Between newbie and Pro there is quite a long stretch making enough place for difference in tiers of players. Heck a pro leaguers can still kitten on high skilled/decent players. case in point, the matchamking is broken thread by ima kongkittenninja, 3052 who got kitten d 631-31 or some score.

I honestly do not know how many are stuck at amber-emerald you neither. But even people from ruby and up are complaining about matchmaking. The argument them bieng matched with diamonds or premades. Heck even those who were started in saphire division from season 2 were complaining at the start of last week. It mean that those in season 2 which was widely regarded as the MMR hell had a high enough division then to be placed in saphire. Complaining doesn’t just revolve around people in lower divisions.

And even if 80 percent is average/bad/new. One shoult atleast try to account for the individual percentages within that 80 percent to make a statement. Like u can’t do much with this and use it as an argument for what might be wrong with matchmaking.

We have to litle to go on. We don’t know if maby 30 percent is average. Or maby 50 percent is new? We don’t know that really.

I think i get your intent now. And it’s not bad by any means. I just wish we had more numbers.

There is one thing i also noticed. Maby u have done so as well. It seems that people that complain about lose streaks and show it, have surprisingly close matches and matches lost without a more then 150 point difference. It wouldn’t surprise me that an big factor is in the amount of mistakes one makes.

Since A net has no lessend the difference in team mmr. U could argue that among that 80 percent assuming this is a matchup in which one team has an higher mmr, that the one with higher mmr simply makes fewer mistakes. And that would explain those not all to terrible lose streaks. It’s more akin to a sick joke, your best wasn’t good enough.

but that’s just my take on it. Wonder what your toughts are.

StickerHappy.8052:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Where are u getting those numbers OP?

From my wording I thought you would’ve picked up I was estimating. This is based on my pvp experience with doing the leagues.

I mean look at it this way:

Perspective 1:

AGs, ESLS, Pro league are always the same people, Abjured is still the number one team because they are the only team that stuck together for a very long time on top their pvp prowess.

So wouldn’t that tell you how small the skilled/top/pro scene we have?

Perspective 2:

Do you see the people who complain about matchmaking during season 1 and 2 are the SAME people who are complaining about it now? How many people are still stuck at amber and emerald?

Why are they stuck? Incompetent teammates, players who might be worse than them, pug vs premade. But again to the point, most decent players will be ruby at least by now.

So who are the people at amber – sapphire?

Ive complained in all seasons so far and more people should speak up tbh. Ive complained about the same crap every season and thats been lack of soloq. Ive never been stuck anywhere, but it aggrivates me that after anet changed the premade system, they ruin so many games for others now. Let me explain how…So im Ruby, i have more wins than losses atm. A ruby somewhere in the gw2 world thinks its funny to team up with an amber, emerald and a sapphire. 4man premade. So what does this mean? Those 3 low divisions is seen as rubys in the mm’s eyes. Then a poor kitten, aka me, get throwed into that team and the mm dont think thats wrong at all since it thinks theyre all rubys when 3 of them are dead weight. Some of us are more unlucky than others to get these matchups. Thats why i get blowout matches everytime i get those kinds of teams because they just arent on ruby level. When i get people from the same division as i am, im happy even if i lose because it was a fair match and the results show that it was a fair match also aka close matches. When i get those premade scrubs, because Anet completely ruined premade rules in the mm, it ruins matches for many players. When you get such low quality teammembers vs OLD legendary players, theres little you can do to save your team who is a old players from amber, emerald, sapphire. They have litterally zero chance to win any 1vs1 or any teamfight vs a FULL old legendary team. So when i get dragged back by this flawed system because Anet cant implement a frikkin soloq, i get srsly annoyed. That doesnt mean im stuck and i never was, but i want fair matches and not lose a win streak or get kept by 50% winrate just because i get these matchups instead of a fair close match. They who dont get thrown into these premades are lucky, sadly im not one of the lucky ones since 30-40% of my matches are exactly this.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

StickerHappy.8052:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Where are u getting those numbers OP?

From my wording I thought you would’ve picked up I was estimating. This is based on my pvp experience with doing the leagues.

I mean look at it this way:

Perspective 1:

AGs, ESLS, Pro league are always the same people, Abjured is still the number one team because they are the only team that stuck together for a very long time on top their pvp prowess.

So wouldn’t that tell you how small the skilled/top/pro scene we have?

Perspective 2:

Do you see the people who complain about matchmaking during season 1 and 2 are the SAME people who are complaining about it now? How many people are still stuck at amber and emerald?

Why are they stuck? Incompetent teammates, players who might be worse than them, pug vs premade. But again to the point, most decent players will be ruby at least by now.

So who are the people at amber – sapphire?

Still seems not quite reliable really.

Pro=/=all skilled players in a game. Even with a small pro league scene. Between newbie and Pro there is quite a long stretch making enough place for difference in tiers of players. Heck a pro leaguers can still kitten on high skilled/decent players. case in point, the matchamking is broken thread by ima kongkittenninja, 3052 who got kitten d 631-31 or some score.

I honestly do not know how many are stuck at amber-emerald you neither. But even people from ruby and up are complaining about matchmaking. The argument them bieng matched with diamonds or premades. Heck even those who were started in saphire division from season 2 were complaining at the start of last week. It mean that those in season 2 which was widely regarded as the MMR hell had a high enough division then to be placed in saphire. Complaining doesn’t just revolve around people in lower divisions.

And even if 80 percent is average/bad/new. One shoult atleast try to account for the individual percentages within that 80 percent to make a statement. Like u can’t do much with this and use it as an argument for what might be wrong with matchmaking.

We have to litle to go on. We don’t know if maby 30 percent is average. Or maby 50 percent is new? We don’t know that really.

I think i get your intent now. And it’s not bad by any means. I just wish we had more numbers.

There is one thing i also noticed. Maby u have done so as well. It seems that people that complain about lose streaks and show it, have surprisingly close matches and matches lost without a more then 150 point difference. It wouldn’t surprise me that an big factor is in the amount of mistakes one makes.

Since A net has no lessend the difference in team mmr. U could argue that among that 80 percent assuming this is a matchup in which one team has an higher mmr, that the one with higher mmr simply makes fewer mistakes. And that would explain those not all to terrible lose streaks. It’s more akin to a sick joke, your best wasn’t good enough.

but that’s just my take on it. Wonder what your toughts are.

Hmm of course you are correct but those numbers are very hard to get. Yes people lose close matches, its not even about the mistakes, you see MM does not account for team comp, class stacking, who knows they were just unfavored with the comps, which is also the reason why MM is kitten, you cannot expect everyone to multi class, or maybe they could but they still suck at it.

So with that, MMR or not, team comps account for almost everything, you cannot run 3 thieves against a premade who are coordinated. This is also a big factor for winning matches, you just cannot run 3 druids and have 0 dps on your team.

I have been playing pvp since launch, all the good players since launch are the same ones now, so roughly ~20% might be accurate believe it or not. There is no new skilled team composed of unknowns that made it to the top.

sanctuary.1068:

StickerHappy.8052:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Where are u getting those numbers OP?

From my wording I thought you would’ve picked up I was estimating. This is based on my pvp experience with doing the leagues.

I mean look at it this way:

Perspective 1:

AGs, ESLS, Pro league are always the same people, Abjured is still the number one team because they are the only team that stuck together for a very long time on top their pvp prowess.

So wouldn’t that tell you how small the skilled/top/pro scene we have?

Perspective 2:

Do you see the people who complain about matchmaking during season 1 and 2 are the SAME people who are complaining about it now? How many people are still stuck at amber and emerald?

Why are they stuck? Incompetent teammates, players who might be worse than them, pug vs premade. But again to the point, most decent players will be ruby at least by now.

So who are the people at amber – sapphire?

Ive complained in all seasons so far and more people should speak up tbh. Ive complained about the same crap every season and thats been lack of soloq. Ive never been stuck anywhere, but it aggrivates me that after anet changed the premade system, they ruin so many games for others now. Let me explain how…So im Ruby, i have more wins than losses atm. A ruby somewhere in the gw2 world thinks its funny to team up with an amber, emerald and a sapphire. 4man premade. So what does this mean? Those 3 low divisions is seen as rubys in the mm’s eyes. Then a poor kitten, aka me, get throwed into that team and the mm dont think thats wrong at all since it thinks theyre all rubys when 3 of them are dead weight. Some of us are more unlucky than others to get these matchups. Thats why i get blowout matches everytime i get those kinds of teams because they just arent on ruby level. When i get people from the same division as i am, im happy even if i lose because it was a fair match and the results show that it was a fair match also aka close matches. When i get those premade scrubs, because Anet completely ruined premade rules in the mm, it ruins matches for many players. When you get such low quality teammembers vs OLD legendary players, theres little you can do to save your team who is a old players from amber, emerald, sapphire. They have litterally zero chance to win any 1vs1 or any teamfight vs a FULL old legendary team. So when i get dragged back by this flawed system because Anet cant implement a frikkin soloq, i get srsly annoyed. That doesnt mean im stuck and i never was, but i want fair matches and not lose a win streak or get kept by 50% winrate just because i get these matchups instead of a fair close match. They who dont get thrown into these premades are lucky, sadly im not one of the lucky ones since 30-40% of my matches are exactly this.

We have opposite experiences, I am almost close to diamond now solely solo queing. The reason for losses are blatantly obvious, people kept going far to die, no map awareness, refusing to cooperate, and dies in 2 seconds before help can arrive, leaves a point to get decap because they are guarding the point outside of it, fighting off point, etc.

You see these are the mistakes that are super easy to avoid if you know how pvp works. People are in ruby playing like ambers. I tell you, these are the same people who do this very single kitten time.

EX:

I had a match yesterday when the enemy ranger decided to go for lord 2 mins into the game.

They lost that match horribly. This is in ruby.

StickerHappy.8052:

sanctuary.1068:

StickerHappy.8052:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Where are u getting those numbers OP?

From my wording I thought you would’ve picked up I was estimating. This is based on my pvp experience with doing the leagues.

I mean look at it this way:

Perspective 1:

AGs, ESLS, Pro league are always the same people, Abjured is still the number one team because they are the only team that stuck together for a very long time on top their pvp prowess.

So wouldn’t that tell you how small the skilled/top/pro scene we have?

Perspective 2:

Do you see the people who complain about matchmaking during season 1 and 2 are the SAME people who are complaining about it now? How many people are still stuck at amber and emerald?

Why are they stuck? Incompetent teammates, players who might be worse than them, pug vs premade. But again to the point, most decent players will be ruby at least by now.

So who are the people at amber – sapphire?

Ive complained in all seasons so far and more people should speak up tbh. Ive complained about the same crap every season and thats been lack of soloq. Ive never been stuck anywhere, but it aggrivates me that after anet changed the premade system, they ruin so many games for others now. Let me explain how…So im Ruby, i have more wins than losses atm. A ruby somewhere in the gw2 world thinks its funny to team up with an amber, emerald and a sapphire. 4man premade. So what does this mean? Those 3 low divisions is seen as rubys in the mm’s eyes. Then a poor kitten, aka me, get throwed into that team and the mm dont think thats wrong at all since it thinks theyre all rubys when 3 of them are dead weight. Some of us are more unlucky than others to get these matchups. Thats why i get blowout matches everytime i get those kinds of teams because they just arent on ruby level. When i get people from the same division as i am, im happy even if i lose because it was a fair match and the results show that it was a fair match also aka close matches. When i get those premade scrubs, because Anet completely ruined premade rules in the mm, it ruins matches for many players. When you get such low quality teammembers vs OLD legendary players, theres little you can do to save your team who is a old players from amber, emerald, sapphire. They have litterally zero chance to win any 1vs1 or any teamfight vs a FULL old legendary team. So when i get dragged back by this flawed system because Anet cant implement a frikkin soloq, i get srsly annoyed. That doesnt mean im stuck and i never was, but i want fair matches and not lose a win streak or get kept by 50% winrate just because i get these matchups instead of a fair close match. They who dont get thrown into these premades are lucky, sadly im not one of the lucky ones since 30-40% of my matches are exactly this.

We have opposite experiences, I am almost close to diamond now solely solo queing. The reason for losses are blatantly obvious, people kept going far to die, no map awareness, refusing to cooperate, and dies in 2 seconds before help can arrive, leaves a point to get decap because they are guarding the point outside of it, fighting off point, etc.

You see these are the mistakes that are super easy to avoid if you know how pvp works. People are in ruby playing like ambers. I tell you, these are the same people who do this very single kitten time.

EX:

I had a match yesterday when the enemy ranger decided to go for lord 2 mins into the game.

They lost that match horribly. This is in ruby.

I get those small mistakes too from ruby players sometimes but i can live with that and that doesnt always mean the game is lost. Thats not what my complaints are about tho. Im talking about premades who actually have a amber tag, emerald tag and a sapphire tag next to them who rly cant win any teamfights nor any 1vs1 BECAUSE all old diamonds & leges went to sapphire at start of season 3, so that means they are decent or good vs scrubs who couldnt get out of ruby last season or even emerald for that matter. Do you know what my end scores is everytime i get that kind of premades? Our teamscore is between 50-150. Total blowouts. The result would be different if we would have been fighting ambers, emeralds, sapphires but…we dont. We get to fight a full ruby team who were leges & diamonds in old season. You cant compare season 3’s ruby players to season 3 ambers, emeralds, sapphires. When i played on my second account last season the second half of the season 2, i was amazed how easy it was to progress on an account which wasnt even hot. They were terrible in amber, emerald and sapphire, nothing could save them, they were the worst of the worst. So pls…when you even try to compare ruby players to TRUE amber/emerald players…Dont even go there. Then imagine that i get those matchups 30-40% of my matches vs full ruby teams because a ruby player out there thinks its fun to bring his friends into ruby matches. Great fun.

Its funny because I warned the pvp team that all the competitive players would leave this game leaving only the noncompetative players. This of course would result in a valueless ranked system. It seems what I feared is becoming a reality I wonder if there is time left to save this game…

Zelulose.8695:

Its funny because I warned the pvp team that all the competitive players would leave this game leaving only the noncompetative players. This of course would result in a valueless ranked system. It seems what I feared is becoming a reality I wonder if there is time left to save this game…

PvP would be a mess but I think it is inevitable. I mean do not get me wrong Gw2 pvp is the most fast paced, complex pvp I have ever played, to expect people to be really good at it is arguable.

The Top(skilled, tourney and non tourney people alike) would only account for so small of the gw2 population. We have the same teams for a very long time. So Whatever you do to the matchmaking, without a skilled/decent population to hold its foundation, ranked will always be a mess, yes it will start out great, but as soon as the decent/skilled players move up to the divisions, any lower divisions will be a living nightmare for most people

TLDR: NO SUFFICIENT SKILLED PLAYER POOL = ENDLESS CESSPOOL OF DECENT MIXED WITH OBLIVIOUS PLAYERS IN LOWER DIVISIONS = RANKED WILL ALWAYS SUCK = BAD EXPERIENCE FOR THE MAJORITY

StickerHappy.8052:

trunks.5249:

StickerHappy.8052:

I do not want to sound elitist, so I apologize in advance If I do.

I think the real problem with MM is not just the MMR or whatever, the problem is the pvp population who are skilled (mechanical,map awareness, rotations, pvp basics) only account for atleast ~20% of the people who que.

While the remaining 80% are either average, have no idea what they are doing, terrible mechanically, oblivious the other points except the point they are on, just started pvp, old pve players who jumped on the pvp train for the shinies, or a combination of all those.

So when the ~20% of the pvp population moves up in the higher divisions, the 80% are now on an FFA with random chances of getting the type of players that I mentioned.

My experience till ruby is very good, matched with ESL players or people who know about pvp, now when those players move up to diamond (either by winstreaks or luck or playing a lot of games) Everyone left in lower divisions will be a cesspool.

I had match that was 4v5 since the start in ruby and we still won.

TLDR: I think GW2 PvP population is comprised of majority of bad, average, plain out oblivious players, Hence you get MUCH MORE AWFUL games than decent ones.

not to sound like an kitten but this just isnt true. there are good players that get stuck with bad player and just cant advance you have no idea what it is like looking at the map and watching your team do the stupidest things .do i bump into players i have trouble beating or just cant beat sure but not has often has i do people i do beat. killing and getting caps only to watch your team ether 1.drop like fly’s 2. do not fight on point or just zerg. i apologize if i can not carry a team . i now know personal score means absolutely nothing . i have bumped into many that were in Diamond last season yet stuck in sapphire or ruby

EXACTLY MY POINT. You know why good players get stuck? because the probability of them getting teamed up with BADDIES is Higher because the bad population outnumber the good.

That is the point. My point is also accentuated when the good players (who were lucky, had the time to grind, etc) are in higher divisions.

So who are those in lower divisions with the casual skilled players?

PI-PONG. You guessed it.

I was out of town the whole week this season started due to work, got back to be paired with players that were so unbearably bad I can’t even bring myself to even want to play sPvP anymore this season.

I’ve literally watched my team try to rotate as the enemy showed up to points, leave rangers in downed states in 1v1s, leave a fight when I come to +1 it so we could win, etc.

Durzlla.6295:

StickerHappy.8052:

trunks.5249:

StickerHappy.8052:

I do not want to sound elitist, so I apologize in advance If I do.

I think the real problem with MM is not just the MMR or whatever, the problem is the pvp population who are skilled (mechanical,map awareness, rotations, pvp basics) only account for atleast ~20% of the people who que.

While the remaining 80% are either average, have no idea what they are doing, terrible mechanically, oblivious the other points except the point they are on, just started pvp, old pve players who jumped on the pvp train for the shinies, or a combination of all those.

So when the ~20% of the pvp population moves up in the higher divisions, the 80% are now on an FFA with random chances of getting the type of players that I mentioned.

My experience till ruby is very good, matched with ESL players or people who know about pvp, now when those players move up to diamond (either by winstreaks or luck or playing a lot of games) Everyone left in lower divisions will be a cesspool.

I had match that was 4v5 since the start in ruby and we still won.

TLDR: I think GW2 PvP population is comprised of majority of bad, average, plain out oblivious players, Hence you get MUCH MORE AWFUL games than decent ones.

not to sound like an kitten but this just isnt true. there are good players that get stuck with bad player and just cant advance you have no idea what it is like looking at the map and watching your team do the stupidest things .do i bump into players i have trouble beating or just cant beat sure but not has often has i do people i do beat. killing and getting caps only to watch your team ether 1.drop like fly’s 2. do not fight on point or just zerg. i apologize if i can not carry a team . i now know personal score means absolutely nothing . i have bumped into many that were in Diamond last season yet stuck in sapphire or ruby

EXACTLY MY POINT. You know why good players get stuck? because the probability of them getting teamed up with BADDIES is Higher because the bad population outnumber the good.

That is the point. My point is also accentuated when the good players (who were lucky, had the time to grind, etc) are in higher divisions.

So who are those in lower divisions with the casual skilled players?

PI-PONG. You guessed it.

I was out of town the whole week this season started due to work, got back to be paired with players that were so unbearably bad I can’t even bring myself to even want to play sPvP anymore this season.

I’ve literally watched my team try to rotate as the enemy showed up to points, leave rangers in downed states in 1v1s, leave a fight when I come to +1 it so we could win, etc.

Yea it is terrible, only way around this problem is that you have to play when the season starts, that way you will be on the same pace as the skilled players moving up to the divisions, avoiding that cesspool together. This ensures you get quality players on both sides.

StickerHappy.8052:

Yea it is terrible, only way around this problem is that you have to play when the season starts, that way you will be on the same pace as the skilled players moving up to the divisions, avoiding that cesspool together. This ensures you get quality players on both sides.

And yet i see other posts saying wait a week or two and the better players will move up divisions and only the bad players remain which you can farm on your win streaks.

So which is it?

Spartacus.3192:

StickerHappy.8052:

Yea it is terrible, only way around this problem is that you have to play when the season starts, that way you will be on the same pace as the skilled players moving up to the divisions, avoiding that cesspool together. This ensures you get quality players on both sides.

And yet i see other posts saying wait a week or two and the better players will move up divisions and only the bad players remain which you can farm on your win streaks.

So which is it?

If the game is solely revolving around 1v1 then that statement is very much true. But unfortunately it is a team game, no matter how good you are, you WILL not carry 4 people who do not even know what pvp basics are.

I guess other way around it is play in a 5 man premade this assuming that your 5 man isn’t worse than the other team.

Well if luck is on your side, people might get to legendary eventually. and this is an IF.

Legendary or not, the current population still will not make way for greater experiences when they grind.

Statistically speaking, having bad players in the PvP pool is beneficial to you, if you’re a good player. Since you, as a good player, are on your team, you can only have a maximum of 4 other players that are awful. However, the other team can have 5. Over time, this gives you a statistical advantage over the other team if you are truly a good player.

Do I get dumb people on my team? Sure, I got somebody that tried to res my clones repeatedly…but then you also see people this dumb on the other team too. The system isn’t targeting you to get placed with all the stupid people, it doesn’t hold some sort of grudge. On average, the other team will be just as dumb as yours. If you are able to raise the average skill level of your team, you will have a better than average win rate.

Additionally, a good and smart player can have an unbalanced effect on a match. Instead of just moaning about how your team rotates poorly, change how you play so that it complements the way the rest of your team is acting. As the only intelligent member on the team, it’s up to you to effectively analyze the game and determine how you need to play to best win.

On top of all of that, a 50% win rate is enough to progress even through ruby and diamond. 3 losses followed by 3 wins is a net gain of 2 pips. Therefor, even if you’re convinced that the system is forcing you to a 50% winrate, you still are able to make progress through the leagues.

Tl;dr: If you’re actually as good a player as you think you are, you’ll win a majority of the time anyway, regardless of the teams you get. If you’re still continuously losing, maybe you need to start thinking about blaming yourself instead of just the rest of your team.

Fay.2357:

Statistically speaking, having bad players in the PvP pool is beneficial to you, if you’re a good player. Since you, as a good player, are on your team, you can only have a maximum of 4 other players that are awful. However, the other team can have 5. Over time, this gives you a statistical advantage over the other team you are truly a good player.

Do I get dumb people on my team? Sure, I got somebody that tried to res my clones repeatedly…but then you also see people this dumb on the other team too. The system isn’t targeting you to get placed with all the stupid people, it doesn’t hold some sort of grudge. On average, the other team will be just as dumb as yours. If you are able to raise the average skill level of your team, you will have a better than average win rate.

Additionally, a good and smart player can have an unbalanced effect on a match. Instead of just moaning about how your team rotates poorly, change how you play so that it complements the way the rest of your team is acting. As the only intelligent member on the team, it’s up to you to effectively analyze the game and determine how you need to play to best win.

On top of all of that, a 50% win rate is enough to progress even through ruby and diamond. 3 losses followed by 3 wins is a net gain of 2 pips. Therefor, even if you’re convinced that the system is forcing you to a 50% winrate, you still are able to make progress through the leagues.

Tl;dr: If you’re actually as good a player as you think you are, you’ll win a majority of the time anyway, regardless of the teams you get. If you’re still continuously losing, maybe you need to start thinking about blaming yourself instead of just the rest of your team.

Sure. Fair points. I completely understand.

These are all true assuming the bad players are not worse than the bad players on the other team. Had this happen to me before haha.

Also what you said is also true atleast until ruby because you cannot lose tiers. Now with ruby, one unlucky streak you have with roll of players you have might be more detrimental for you.

I mean it’s still about luck getting atleast better members on your team relative to the other team.

But again that luck is not getting any better without a decent player population that is big enough to atleast mitigate those horrid pvp experiences.

Also in regards to what you said, it still requires the perfect class for the job, I think even if you are better than your teammates, you will not keep them alive indefinitely if they die most the time in a team fight. you can’t bunker a point all game either.

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

Statistically speaking, having bad players in the PvP pool is beneficial to you, if you’re a good player. Since you, as a good player, are on your team, you can only have a maximum of 4 other players that are awful. However, the other team can have 5. Over time, this gives you a statistical advantage over the other team you are truly a good player.

Do I get dumb people on my team? Sure, I got somebody that tried to res my clones repeatedly…but then you also see people this dumb on the other team too. The system isn’t targeting you to get placed with all the stupid people, it doesn’t hold some sort of grudge. On average, the other team will be just as dumb as yours. If you are able to raise the average skill level of your team, you will have a better than average win rate.

Additionally, a good and smart player can have an unbalanced effect on a match. Instead of just moaning about how your team rotates poorly, change how you play so that it complements the way the rest of your team is acting. As the only intelligent member on the team, it’s up to you to effectively analyze the game and determine how you need to play to best win.

On top of all of that, a 50% win rate is enough to progress even through ruby and diamond. 3 losses followed by 3 wins is a net gain of 2 pips. Therefor, even if you’re convinced that the system is forcing you to a 50% winrate, you still are able to make progress through the leagues.

Tl;dr: If you’re actually as good a player as you think you are, you’ll win a majority of the time anyway, regardless of the teams you get. If you’re still continuously losing, maybe you need to start thinking about blaming yourself instead of just the rest of your team.

Sure. Fair points. I completely understand.

These are all true assuming the bad players are not worse than the bad players on the other team. Had this happen to me before haha.

Also what you said is also true atleast until ruby because you cannot lose tiers. Now with ruby, one unlucky streak you have with roll of players you have might be more detrimental for you.

I mean it’s still about luck getting atleast better members on your team relative to the other team.

But again that luck is not getting any better without a decent player population that is big enough to atleast mitigate those horrid pvp experiences.

Also in regards to what you said, it still requires the perfect class for the job, I think even if you are better than your teammates, you will not keep them alive indefinitely if they die most the time in a team fight. you can’t bunker a point all game either.

It’s not about luck, it’s about averages. Over time, you’ll have just as many awful players with you as you will see against you. Over time, it balanced out. In any given match it won’t be perfectly even, but over 100 matches it will be very very close.

As I said, the system doesn’t hold a grudge against you. It’s not purposefully matching you with the worst players every time. Sometimes you’ll get worse ones, sometimes you’ll get better ones, and over time this all comes out to the average. If you, as a good player, are able to shift your team’s average higher, then you’ll win more.

Additionally, 50% winrate will get you through ruby and diamond, as I already said. Winning and losing the exact same amount of games will result in a positive pip amount 100% of the time. If you lose 3 or more, the next win gets you 2 pips instead of 1. If you win 3 or more, each win will give 2 pips. However, it is impossible to lose more than 1 pip at a time. This means that random variation in win and loss streaks will always result in a net gain of pips, allowing you to progress.

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

Statistically speaking, having bad players in the PvP pool is beneficial to you, if you’re a good player. Since you, as a good player, are on your team, you can only have a maximum of 4 other players that are awful. However, the other team can have 5. Over time, this gives you a statistical advantage over the other team you are truly a good player.

Do I get dumb people on my team? Sure, I got somebody that tried to res my clones repeatedly…but then you also see people this dumb on the other team too. The system isn’t targeting you to get placed with all the stupid people, it doesn’t hold some sort of grudge. On average, the other team will be just as dumb as yours. If you are able to raise the average skill level of your team, you will have a better than average win rate.

Additionally, a good and smart player can have an unbalanced effect on a match. Instead of just moaning about how your team rotates poorly, change how you play so that it complements the way the rest of your team is acting. As the only intelligent member on the team, it’s up to you to effectively analyze the game and determine how you need to play to best win.

On top of all of that, a 50% win rate is enough to progress even through ruby and diamond. 3 losses followed by 3 wins is a net gain of 2 pips. Therefor, even if you’re convinced that the system is forcing you to a 50% winrate, you still are able to make progress through the leagues.

Tl;dr: If you’re actually as good a player as you think you are, you’ll win a majority of the time anyway, regardless of the teams you get. If you’re still continuously losing, maybe you need to start thinking about blaming yourself instead of just the rest of your team.

Sure. Fair points. I completely understand.

These are all true assuming the bad players are not worse than the bad players on the other team. Had this happen to me before haha.

Also what you said is also true atleast until ruby because you cannot lose tiers. Now with ruby, one unlucky streak you have with roll of players you have might be more detrimental for you.

I mean it’s still about luck getting atleast better members on your team relative to the other team.

But again that luck is not getting any better without a decent player population that is big enough to atleast mitigate those horrid pvp experiences.

Also in regards to what you said, it still requires the perfect class for the job, I think even if you are better than your teammates, you will not keep them alive indefinitely if they die most the time in a team fight. you can’t bunker a point all game either.

It’s not about luck, it’s about averages. Over time, you’ll have just as many awful players with you as you will see against you. Over time, it balanced out. In any given match it won’t be perfectly even, but over 100 matches it will be very very close.

As I said, the system doesn’t hold a grudge against you. It’s not purposefully matching you with the worst players every time. Sometimes you’ll get worse ones, sometimes you’ll get better ones, and over time this all comes out to the average. If you, as a good player, are able to shift your team’s average higher, then you’ll win more.

Additionally, 50% winrate will get you through ruby and diamond, as I already said. Winning and losing the exact same amount of games will result in a positive pip amount 100% of the time. If you lose 3 or more, the next win gets you 2 pips instead of 1. If you win 3 or more, each win will give 2 pips. However, it is impossible to lose more than 1 pip at a time. This means that random variation in win and loss streaks will always result in a net gain of pips, allowing you to progress.

So the only downside here is to wait for the system to average out, which as you said might be atleast ~100 games, which is really putting super casual people at a disadvantage?

Of course me myself do not have any problem with the system at all, as you’ve said it does not really purposely punish you.

That was the point of my post, I think its not even the matchmaking system, it just does it job (50% win ratio, matching opponents) but the only thing that makes the result so different than its intention is that the awful/average player population is so big that the Matchmaker gets its variables from this pool hence you get these bad experiences on the forums.

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

Statistically speaking, having bad players in the PvP pool is beneficial to you, if you’re a good player. Since you, as a good player, are on your team, you can only have a maximum of 4 other players that are awful. However, the other team can have 5. Over time, this gives you a statistical advantage over the other team you are truly a good player.

Do I get dumb people on my team? Sure, I got somebody that tried to res my clones repeatedly…but then you also see people this dumb on the other team too. The system isn’t targeting you to get placed with all the stupid people, it doesn’t hold some sort of grudge. On average, the other team will be just as dumb as yours. If you are able to raise the average skill level of your team, you will have a better than average win rate.

Additionally, a good and smart player can have an unbalanced effect on a match. Instead of just moaning about how your team rotates poorly, change how you play so that it complements the way the rest of your team is acting. As the only intelligent member on the team, it’s up to you to effectively analyze the game and determine how you need to play to best win.

On top of all of that, a 50% win rate is enough to progress even through ruby and diamond. 3 losses followed by 3 wins is a net gain of 2 pips. Therefor, even if you’re convinced that the system is forcing you to a 50% winrate, you still are able to make progress through the leagues.

Tl;dr: If you’re actually as good a player as you think you are, you’ll win a majority of the time anyway, regardless of the teams you get. If you’re still continuously losing, maybe you need to start thinking about blaming yourself instead of just the rest of your team.

Sure. Fair points. I completely understand.

These are all true assuming the bad players are not worse than the bad players on the other team. Had this happen to me before haha.

Also what you said is also true atleast until ruby because you cannot lose tiers. Now with ruby, one unlucky streak you have with roll of players you have might be more detrimental for you.

I mean it’s still about luck getting atleast better members on your team relative to the other team.

But again that luck is not getting any better without a decent player population that is big enough to atleast mitigate those horrid pvp experiences.

Also in regards to what you said, it still requires the perfect class for the job, I think even if you are better than your teammates, you will not keep them alive indefinitely if they die most the time in a team fight. you can’t bunker a point all game either.

It’s not about luck, it’s about averages. Over time, you’ll have just as many awful players with you as you will see against you. Over time, it balanced out. In any given match it won’t be perfectly even, but over 100 matches it will be very very close.

As I said, the system doesn’t hold a grudge against you. It’s not purposefully matching you with the worst players every time. Sometimes you’ll get worse ones, sometimes you’ll get better ones, and over time this all comes out to the average. If you, as a good player, are able to shift your team’s average higher, then you’ll win more.

Additionally, 50% winrate will get you through ruby and diamond, as I already said. Winning and losing the exact same amount of games will result in a positive pip amount 100% of the time. If you lose 3 or more, the next win gets you 2 pips instead of 1. If you win 3 or more, each win will give 2 pips. However, it is impossible to lose more than 1 pip at a time. This means that random variation in win and loss streaks will always result in a net gain of pips, allowing you to progress.

So the only downside here is to wait for the system to average out, which as you said might be atleast ~100 games, which is really putting super casual people at a disadvantage?

Of course me myself do not have any problem with the system at all, as you’ve said it does not really purposely punish you.

That was the point of my post, I think its not even the matchmaking system, it just does it job (50% win ratio, matching opponents) but the only thing that makes the result so different than its intention is that the awful/average player population is so big that the Matchmaker gets its variables from this pool hence you get these bad experiences on the forums.

Strictly speaking it puts super casual people at a disadvantage…but someone playing that little couldn’t hit legendary even with 100% winrate, so it’s not really relevant.

Most of the complaints you see here are from people who have played many games and are still stuck with no progress. You see the same themes over and over, ‘oh I always get bad teams, oh they don’t know how to rotate, oh I’m so much better than these people’.

No. If these people complaining actually were better, if they actually were skilled and intelligent, they wouldn’t have a 35% win rate across 150 matches. This is simply a case of self-delusion, people convinced that they’re great players when the reality is entirely different. That’s all.

If you are better than the average player you are matched with you should be gaining pips. Your team has 4 of them and the other team has 5, so your team should be a bit better because of you.