Guild Wars 2

anyone arguing for this prof is maining a thief and will pretty much be dismissed. youre also missing the main point: most survivability, most burst, most mobility. period. no trade-offs. this is simply not allowed in any balanced pvp game. letting this crap go on for 4 months is absolutely nuts. my buddy stopped playing his thief because he was sick and tired of owning people in wvw with a few button spams.

nerva.7940:

anyone arguing for this prof is maining a thief and will pretty much be dismissed. youre also missing the main point: most survivability, most burst, most mobility. period. no trade-offs. this is simply not allowed in any balanced pvp game. letting this crap go on for 4 months is absolutely nuts. my buddy stopped playing his thief because he was sick and tired of owning people in wvw with a few button spams.

Your bias has blinded you, and leads to hilarious inaccurate statements such as these.

Most survivability – ……..Do you play this game? Thief has the most survivability? There’s a character cap on posts, so I can’t detail exactly whats wrong with this statement (Everything), so let me sum it up – No protection, no stability, no aegis, poor access to regen, no immune skills, no block skills, No weaponset based heal skills, lowest base HP bracket, medium armor. But we’re the most survivable.

Most mobility – Most would argue that Ele’s are currently the king of mobility. Thief mobility is good no doubt (for reasons why, see above), but ele’s are better.

Most Burst – well, we have to be the best at something, and it certainly isn’t survivability, sustained DPS, Bunkering, mobility, CC, support, or healing, so I think this ones OK. Also helps that the Dev’s description of a thief is “best burst, but squishy”, which is a fairly accurate statement.

WvW != sPvP.
WvW != sPvP. Come to understand that – One is a competitive PvP environment, the other is a PvE environment where you can engage other players.

nerva.7940:

anyone arguing for this prof is maining a thief and will pretty much be dismissed. youre also missing the main point: most survivability, most burst, most mobility. period. no trade-offs. this is simply not allowed in any balanced pvp game. letting this crap go on for 4 months is absolutely nuts. my buddy stopped playing his thief because he was sick and tired of owning people in wvw with a few button spams.

So you call out thieves with biased, unfounded statements. Then when people correct you, your argument is basically “lalalala I can’t hear you!! lalala.” Mature.

Anyways, I’d love to see what fantastic build you know of that has any of the above in combination with “best survivability,” or better yet just has “best survivability” period.

Fellknight.4820:

The head designer obviously plays this class and is totally out of touch with reality, because I’ve never seen a class this insanely over the top in any game.

I’ve seen classes that can get away from just about anything.

I’ve seen classes run faster than anything.

I’ve seen classes 1-2 shot people.

Just never seen a class in a game that could do all of these at the same time, and a design team absolutely unwilling to address the fact that it’s this out of control. So lets all stop pretending this is a mistake or balancing issue when we all know exactly what’s going on here, blatant favoritism towards a guys preffered class.

Most players call the game Thief Wars you really gonna tank your own game pvp wise to keep your class on easy mode pvp.

100% agreed.

I’ve been saying this for weeks…

Thief is in the Top Tier of all the classes in basically every important aspect of the game:

- DPS/Burst: Easy First Place
- Movement: Easy Top-3, with Ele and Mesmer (cuz Portal rulez) on about the same level
- Survival/Sustain: Even as a glass cannon, he’s definitely wayyyy too hard to kill. Maybe not Top-3 in this Aspect, but in relation to how much DMG he does and how glassy his equip is, he’s by far the char with the best sustain to DPS-ratio.
- Teamfight: AoE-Poison-Field (+Weakness if traited and oooh boy is that an underrated trait), AoE-Stealth, Cantrips, Good AoE-DPS on Shortbow, Combo-Fields, Combo-finishers etc.
- Controlling alternative Points of interest: Can solokill Svanir/Chieftain, can kill Guild-Lord in record-time and on Kyhlo, he is basically the movement-king and by far the best roamer AND he’s easily able to snipe ppl on the Treb and kill the Treb pretty fast afterwards.
- His Combos have no downside either: Easy to land, short CD’s and no real drawback like Frenzy, being open to counterattacks etc. cuz you’ll go right back to being stealthed.

There is almost no downside to the Thief if you play him as an offensive Roamer, that doesn’t need to guard points anyways, which might be one of the only aspects of the game where current Thief-builds fall short (there are decent defensive builds though, but they are not the big Issue here).

PowerBottom.5796:

Fellknight.4820:

The head designer obviously plays this class and is totally out of touch with reality, because I’ve never seen a class this insanely over the top in any game.

I’ve seen classes that can get away from just about anything.

I’ve seen classes run faster than anything.

I’ve seen classes 1-2 shot people.

Just never seen a class in a game that could do all of these at the same time, and a design team absolutely unwilling to address the fact that it’s this out of control. So lets all stop pretending this is a mistake or balancing issue when we all know exactly what’s going on here, blatant favoritism towards a guys preffered class.

Most players call the game Thief Wars you really gonna tank your own game pvp wise to keep your class on easy mode pvp.

100% agreed.

I’ve been saying this for weeks…

Thief is in the Top Tier of all the classes in basically every important aspect of the game:

- DPS/Burst: Easy First Place
- Movement: Easy Top-3, with Ele and Mesmer (cuz Portal rulez) on about the same level
- Survival/Sustain: Even as a glass cannon, he’s definitely wayyyy too hard to kill. Maybe not Top-3 in this Aspect, but in relation to how much DMG he does and how glassy his equip is, he’s by far the char with the best sustain to DPS-ratio.
- Teamfight: AoE-Poison-Field (+Weakness if traited and oooh boy is that an underrated trait), AoE-Stealth, Cantrips, Good AoE-DPS on Shortbow, Combo-Fields, Combo-finishers etc.
- Controlling alternative Points of interest: Can solokill Svanir/Chieftain, can kill Guild-Lord in record-time and on Kyhlo, he is basically the movement-king and by far the best roamer AND he’s easily able to snipe ppl on the Treb and kill the Treb pretty fast afterwards.
- His Combos have no downside either: Easy to land, short CD’s and no real drawback like Frenzy, being open to counterattacks etc. cuz you’ll go right back to being stealthed.

There is almost no downside to the Thief if you play him as an offensive Roamer, that doesn’t need to guard points anyways, which might be one of the only aspects of the game where current Thief-builds fall short (there are decent defensive builds though, but they are not the big Issue here).

Lol at mesmer being top 3 because of portal. 1 time per 90 seconds does not equal good mobility.

I do agree with your comment about thief having basically no downside as an offensive roamer. They build for glass most of the time and can be killed with only minimal damage….. if you can hit them/find them/catch them good luck with that.

Personally I find thief is only an issue when they abuse their post stealth rendering, but then I noticed recently having played on a latency free connection that thief renders fairly quick, they just don’t have a name above their heads and can not be targeted unless you click on them. I can only guess that when they test this in-house thief seems normal.

What I’m saying is that I don’t see the issue with thief being amazingly strong in so many offensive areas because they are an offensive class. They may have a few bugs to work out still but I’d like to see the bugs worked out before they continue nerfing classes in order to balance them. Besides the only real mechanics I care to see get fixed are the stealth and the excessively large movement built into heartseeker.

urinfamousr.7631:

Jason Segel.2908:

urinfamousr.7631:

Fellknight.4820:

The head designer obviously plays this class and is totally out of touch with reality, because I’ve never seen a class this insanely over the top in any game.

I’ve seen classes that can get away from just about anything.

I’ve seen classes run faster than anything.

I’ve seen classes 1-2 shot people.

Just never seen a class in a game that could do all of these at the same time, and a design team absolutely unwilling to address the fact that it’s this out of control. So lets all stop pretending this is a mistake or balancing issue when we all know exactly what’s going on here, blatant favoritism towards a guys preffered class.

Most players call the game Thief Wars you really gonna tank your own game pvp wise to keep your class on easy mode pvp.

just do like most pvpers do and move on LOL has given me a whole new appreciation for pvp

See how you are biased towards the minority of the game? The top pvpers will stay no matter what challenge.

Quit trying to be elitist bringing up LOL.

who are these “top players” we speak of ?? vid’s s/s or it never happened

“top pvpers”

You can look them up yourself, it’s the first post in “Structured PvP” forum. Don’t know how you missed it.

Jason Segel.2908:

urinfamousr.7631:

Jason Segel.2908:

urinfamousr.7631:

Fellknight.4820:

The head designer obviously plays this class and is totally out of touch with reality, because I’ve never seen a class this insanely over the top in any game.

I’ve seen classes that can get away from just about anything.

I’ve seen classes run faster than anything.

I’ve seen classes 1-2 shot people.

Just never seen a class in a game that could do all of these at the same time, and a design team absolutely unwilling to address the fact that it’s this out of control. So lets all stop pretending this is a mistake or balancing issue when we all know exactly what’s going on here, blatant favoritism towards a guys preffered class.

Most players call the game Thief Wars you really gonna tank your own game pvp wise to keep your class on easy mode pvp.

just do like most pvpers do and move on LOL has given me a whole new appreciation for pvp

See how you are biased towards the minority of the game? The top pvpers will stay no matter what challenge.

Quit trying to be elitist bringing up LOL.

who are these “top players” we speak of ?? vid’s s/s or it never happened

“top pvpers”

You can look them up yourself, it’s the first post in “Structured PvP” forum. Don’t know how you missed it.

That handwritten list?

I’ve seen MUDs in 1993 with better technology.

Bottom Line if you have a class creating nerf threads that have more views/replies than there is players doing pvp at any given time, and it has been consistant since beta, it’s time to nerf that class to the floor.

If you don’t understand that as a designer you need people to play your MMO in order for it to be successful than it’s probably time for a career change.

Because at the end of the day it doesn’t matter how you feel as a developer if no one wants to play your game.

And the most logical thing to do is what the 500,000 players have been screaming for since before day one, Nerf the thief. You really think your right and 90% of your playerbase is wrong come on now.

You honestly think people stopped playing GW2 because of balance? Not the massive lack of infrastructure? Seriously?

Wanna know why there are more “nerf thief” threads?

GW2 skill is in the defense. It’s in dodging. It’s in knowing other classes, their abilities, and how to counter them. Thieves have the highest single target burst damage in the game.

So being a new player, you don’t know what they are doing and how to counter. You just die in 1 second over and over and over again. At least in an FPS, newbies can fight each other for minutes at a time because they both can’t aim.

Want to know the real problem with the thief class? The developer missed the memo on “no holy trinity”. Because the class can choose from damage, damage, or damage. There is no support role with CC/heals. There is no tank spec with immunities, stability, protection, and block abilities.

There’s just damage. And that’s the real problem. The class is completely 1-dimensional. Good at damage. That’s it.

Thieves as a whole aren’t OP but BS builds have such a low skill floor that they are ruining spvp games. True that in tpvp they’re not as effective but I’d say the problem (as in the topic of this thread) is that the abundance of thieves in 8v8, which has been up to 10 thieves in one match, puts casuals and new players off pvp and bleeds out the player base even more.

What part of I ignore thief fanboys don’t you understand that means Daays, Lukin, Mindlessruff, ayedunited, Evilapprentice etc.

Anyone who spends 99.9% of their time on the forum defending the most grossily overpowered class every seen in a mmo I ignore. You all should have been perma banned from the forums ages ago for your balatant ABUSE of the forum’s TOS but the fact that the mod ignores your insane amount of infractions is more proof that the head dev plays a thief. Yet anyone who disagree’s with you gets banned and infracted while your post’s which consist of trolling and fanboy nonsense like L2play are dismissed.

Your gonna deny that thieve’s have more mobility, escapes and the highest dmg of any class and to you thats balanced? Really?

Mobility:

Fleet Shadow: 50% run speed in stealth coupled with shadow refuge makes you the only class in the game that can cross a map unhindered.

Shadow trap: Better than Mesmer’s portal in the fact that it’s brainless set it on a node, trebuchet, Savnir/Chieftan and you auto port back to it the minute it detects movement and it stealth’s you for 5 seconds.

Shadow step: A teleport and teleport return with stun breaker that REMOVES CONDITIONS!

Shadow Signet: 25% steady run speed

Inf. Arrow: Shortbow spammable teleport

Escapes:

Shadow Refuge: 10 second invis with hidden assassin trait that can be used to gain 10 stacks of might. And with shadow Rejuv can be used to get a ton of life back. And I’ve heard the Bs arguement that you can be hit in it, yeah you get a huge circle you can move around in and leave in 3 secs and retain the 10 sec stealth.

Blinding Powder: With trait and utility skill

Cnd: 6 inniative spammable invis

Hide in shadows: A heal plus stealth plus remove all conditions, WHAT?

Master of Deception: For 10 pts in Shadow Arts dropping every stealth ability CD by 20%

Damage:

Everyone knows these guys can deal it out better than any class and theres many ways to do it.

But every thief fanboy is going to pretend these abilities dont exist that they die like a dusk till dawn vamp exposed to sunlight when hit and they arent the easiest evade/escape get out of jail from any problem class in the game, WITH THE HIGHEST DMG!

Sorry but all of these things will make any new player to this game who has experienced any other MMO leave and never turn back, thinking what 90% of the pvp playerbase already knows, these devs are nuts.

Fellknight.4820:

If you don’t understand that as a designer you need people to play your MMO in order for it to be successful than it’s probably time for a career change. Because at the end of the day it doesn’t matter how you feel as a developer if no one wants to play your game.

this sadly. everyone hates the thief. ive never hated anything more than the thief in this game and the devs’ sheer stubbornness when sitting back on this issue.

Its funny how melodramatic everyone is about this. Thieves just need some damage tweaks to their burst, and some buffs to their utility and its less “broken” in the sense its stomping newbs.

Less is more bros.

Nope, I played other MMO (GW1) and I would never leave because of those silly reasons. So yeah, what do we do now? Also.. thieves are just fine, I like getting free kills from them.

Better p/d thiefs will just fake cast CnD to force enemy to dodge.

“What part of I ignore thief fanboys don’t you understand that means Daays, Lukin, Mindlessruff, ayedunited, Evilapprentice etc.”

Easier to ignore arguments than to counter them – good plan (kind of a metaphor for what people do currently with thieves, why learn to counter, when you can simply ignore and qq for “nerfing to the floor”). More and more I think that this is a troll thread because people pointed out your lies (most funny one is 10sec kill of anybody, still loling about that) you said nothing, people pointed out how to defeat a thief – nothing, so either you are a complete idiot that does not have an ability to look at the issue from different sides, or this thread is just trolling – both are equally possible.

Interesting how you call people thieves fanboys – thief was my forth character I have created, I never use it in tournaments and just sometimes go to spvp to farm nabs for glory, you know those nabs that go full glass cannon without packing any stunbreakers. I usually just lol about bs thief op qq topics, just like I loled about 100b war op qq topics, sometimes I post in those either to help people understand how to fight them or to point out the stupidity of the posts, but from my post history I have noticed, that the biggest part of my posts are in necromancer thread – you know, that class that is my main and I played 99% of tournaments with it. How can you be a fanboy of a class you use the least?

Funny you even ignored the fact, that in pvp there is only conquest mode, that makes you want to stand on a point, yet all thieves escape abilites allows enemies to cap it, thus loosing the game. Also writing all utilities, that stealth you proves what? That thief has 10 utility slots and can use all of them any time? Mesmers do the same dmg with shatter currently AOE as a bs thief can do on single target, 100b as 1 ability has more dmg on a single target than any one thief’s ability, so how is your argument that they are “WITH THE HIGHEST DMG!”? Is it sustained dmg of conditions, that you as you say roll and kill anybody in 10sec? Or is it that basilisk venom+steal+cnd+bs+hs combo with 45sec cd?

Also assumptions are not good arguments – for example “Sorry but all of these things will make any new player to this game who has experienced any other MMO leave and never turn back, thinking what 90% of the pvp playerbase already knows, these devs are nuts.” Maybe players will leave because asura model is too small or too big, or maybe they will leave because there is a lack of content currently in pvp, or maybe they will leave because they like a game to have a ridiculous amount of useless skills you can use, but never will and gear grinding in pvp? Also using percentage should mean that you have made some statistical research, thus with at least 95% certainty you can say this as a fact. I for example do not think devs are nuts, I think that they work too slow towards pvp and are not competent enough in knowing what draws people to pvp in a game like this.

Also just now noticed “You all should have been perma banned from the forums ages ago”, yes – this is a troll thread, since no person is stupid enough to state a thing like this…

The real problem with the thief class is initiative combined with skills like HS, DB, CnD, & PS etc. They not only get certain weapon skills that are already more powerful then quite a few weapon skills for other classes, but they can use them at will (assuming they are smart with the resource). If other classes had access to a resource like this they too would become pretty powerful – even if you wanted to say some weapon sets would need balanced./toned down.

Thief is killable, no doubt, but in the right hands/spec, thief along with mesmer are the two classes I know I have to play the best against with almost 0 mistakes if I want to win the fight. They are just more dangerous then really any other class. I know warrior can hurt, but they are just too obvious in the animations. I better have the awareness and see the thief coming so I can anticipate what I need to do or the fight is probably already over – I can’t say that about many of the classes.

I’m setting a couple of things straight. Maybe a thread 90% trolling can be constructive. We’ll see.

Here are the problems with the Thief:

1.) Burst is too quick and easy to execute. Thieves start strong and then lose initiative; there is no build up. They don’t have to work to 3 shot you with the current OP builds.

The burst is nearly instantaneous (meaning you have to react quickly and almost flawlessly), and it’s simple to perform (meaning anyone can do it).

2.) Stealth is the ultimate offense and the ultimate defense. Stealth means you can initiate any battle on your terms, end any battle on your terms, and fight any battle on your terms. The result is a no risk in battle for the attacker.

If you stealth at the start of the battle, you can jump your enemy or exploit any weaknesses they have.

If you stealth mid-battle, you can choose when to avoid enemy combos, and choose when to execute yours. You gain complete control over the battlefield as they have to guess where you are, and if they guess wrong you exploit that. If they guess right, it’s not like they can catch you (or even know they guessed right).

If you stealth at the end of battle, you can run without fail. Paired with arguably the best mobility in the game, you are uncatchable. This brings me to my final point.

3.) Stealth mixed with Mobility. When I first heard about Thieves pre-beta, I never thought they would be overpowered. I figured to have survival, they would choose either mobility, choose stealth, or hybrid and sacrifice offense. Instead, they have excellent mobility, stealth on demand and near perma-stealth, all while being glass cannon.

The damage itself isn’t a huge problem. The major problem is that you don’t sacrifice enough by going for that damage. Mobility and stealth is the ultimate combo for preventing damage.

Overall Thieves aren’t very overpowered, and according to Thieves I know there are some parts that do need buffs. But, there are these few areas that together, lead to a truly overpowered combination.

Powerful and easy burst, with high survival, and no risk to initiating combat.

You can give Thieves powerful burst. You can give Thieves good in-combat survival. You an give them good escape mechanisms. But, you have to FORCE trade-offs, which is the prerequisite to balance in any game.

Fellknight.4820:

Mobility:

Fleet Shadow: 50% run speed in stealth coupled with shadow refuge makes you the only class in the game that can cross a map unhindered.

Yea and we all know every thief is running this decisive skill. Can’t see how anyone would pick this unless they run a p/d condition build currently, and there are other more interesting traits to pick under the shadow arts line.

Shadow trap: Better than Mesmer’s portal in the fact that it’s brainless set it on a node, trebuchet, Savnir/Chieftan and you auto port back to it the minute it detects movement and it stealth’s you for 5 seconds.

I love how you poorly tried to convince yourself that this is in anyway brainless’er than a mesmer portal. Both just require planning and, well, that’s about it.

Shadow step: A teleport and teleport return with stun breaker that REMOVES CONDITIONS!

Mmmh, nope, nope, shadowstep doesn’t remove any condition. µI take it you’re talking about infiltrator’s strike, but that’s a weird mistake for someone who’s supposed to run a thief. Anyway, that’s a sword feature, this goes for all your wall of tears btw, 30/30/30/30/30 and so forth

Shadow Signet: 25% steady run speed

I didn’t know this was exclusive to the thieves

Inf. Arrow: Shortbow spammable teleport

Yea 6 initiative out of 12 is certainly what should be called spammable.

Escapes:

Shadow Refuge: 10 second invis with hidden assassin trait that can be used to gain 10 stacks of might. And with shadow Rejuv can be used to get a ton of life back. And I’ve heard the Bs arguement that you can be hit in it, yeah you get a huge circle you can move around in and leave in 3 secs and retain the 10 sec stealth.

Easy to be hit inside, yes, for instance it has the size of a necro well. And since you’re also crying about hidden assassin, this is actually a well designed minor trait that is here to complement the lack of strength any thief has to deal with when putting 25-30pts into shadow arts. And Btw it requires you to stay stealhed for the whole 10 seconds to get the 10 stacks, thats 10 seconds of free cool down for your opponent too.

Blinding Powder: With trait and utility skill

Yes ?

Cnd: 6 inniative spammable invis

So i guess 6 initiative is definitely spammable

Hide in shadows: A heal plus stealth plus remove all conditions, WHAT?

Did you know there are other conditions than burn, poison and bleeding ? Because those are the only conditions it removes.

Master of Deception: For 10 pts in Shadow Arts dropping every stealth ability CD by 20%

Mmmh, wrong again, it reduces deception utilities CD by 20%, which is kinda not “all stealth ability CD”

Anyway

You’re a joke.

Okay, let’s make a simple comparison between some of the offensive roamers: Let’s take BS-Thief, S/D-Ele, D/D-Ele and 100b War and compare them in various aspects:

Mobility
Thief is probably on par with the Eles, there are enough spots on every Map to glitch through with the Blinks and there are good Thief-builds with perma-swiftness or perma 25% Movement-Speed. Both Ele and Thief are much better than the War.

Burst-DPS
Thief is easy first, then 100b, then the Ele’s, because most Eles will run the build with defensive Equipment and Traits, so the burst is good, but nowhere near as high as the burst of the other 2 classes.

Burst Cooldown
Thief is again easy first. I do understand that Stealing has quite a recast and is an important part of what makes the spike so good and easy to land, but you can spike quite well without it. Try landing 100b without the Knockdown of Bulls Charge and/or Frenzy – without those two Utilities, your 100b will most likely be used on downed targets or is only good with strong teamplay. The Ele also has very long recasts on the best Burst-Skills, like Flame Grab, Phoenix, the Knockdowns/Knockbacks etc.

Sustained DMG
Thief is not the best in Sustained DMG, but have you ever played an S/D-Ele? The Sustained DMG is horrible! D/D is much much better in that aspect, but because it’s all Melee-Range and a lot of it is AoE, you can negate huge parts of the DMG with good Movement, positioning and any kind of Movement-impairing skills. Those where a huge part in GW1 to reduce sustained DPS, but no1 gives a kitten about them in GW2. But just use cantrips, ice-fields, well-targeted immobilizes/crippling etc. and see how much sustain the D/D-Ele does then. The 100b War has similar Problems if he doesn’t run a Ranged-Weapon (which not many War’s do), but his Sustain is also not that bad. So how well does the Thief compared to them? Not to bad after all: The Shortbow is absolutely amazing for sustained DPS – you can easily keep poison on targets forever, spam trickshots etc. Just because the Thief can easily switch to a incredibly strong ranged-Weapon, makes his sustained DPS pretty decent.

Teamfight
Again, the Thief is very strong, especially of your team wants to engage in Teamfights and the Thief makes little changes in his build to accomodate that. Just the Cantrips and the AoE-Stealth could be considered Teamfight-winning Skills. On top of that, you have the aforementioned Shortbow Poison-fields (+Weakness if traited and it’s well worthwile to trait it IMHO), Trickshot, the clusterbomb etc.
The D/D is pretty good in Teamfights as well and well above the S/D-Ele, mostly because of the much better AoE and sutained-DPS. Both builds don’t have that good utilities for Teamfights like Cantrips and Shadow Refuge though and even though the constant buffs, slight condition-removal and Healing of the Ele’s help out, they don’t have as big of an impact as those 2 Skills.
The War is not too bad in Teamfights as well, mostly because he can control downed Players well with Quickness-Stomps and 100b.
It would put the Thief on top though anyways, especially if the Thief makes some minor adjustements to his build, if he is being played in a Team that want’s to win Teamfights.

Sustain/Survival
D/D-Ele is probably on Top, followed by S/D-Ele, then Thief, then the War. I only put the Ele’s above the Thief, because they can actually guard points, but if it’s just about simple survival, a Thief is harder to kill than most offensive Ele-builds, although most of them run much more defensive Equipment and Traits than Thiefs.
The War is actually not that hard to kill: if you play well and attack the War during Frenzy, it’s almost a guaranteed kill if he doesn’t fire off Endure Pain or the Shield-Block. He also doesn’t have Shadowsteps and is not as fast as the other two and his downed-mode is far worse than that of the Thief and the Ele, so he’s actually one of the prime-targets to be spiked during Teamfights.

As of yet there has not been a single thief reply in defense of why any class should have

1. Highest Mobility
2. Highest Damage
3. Most Escapes

All I’ve seen is totally off topic rants, personal assaults, and blind ignorance.

I can only argue logical concise discourse.

I cannot play pretend that there is still a pvp playerbase when in reality it’s about 1% of the total players that bought the game doing pvp.

I can’t pretend that the pvp playerbase didn’t drop off a cliff everytime a pvp patch came out that addressed none of the problems with thieves.

I can’t pretend that there hasn’t been 500,000 posts all yelling to change this class in 4 months. I’ve never seen so many posts/views/replies about one class in a new game in my life.

So how come we have to pretend this class is balanced because 1 dev and 15 thief players can’t figure out how to pvp with even scaled abilities.

main problem is stealth uptime. CD’s are straight up too low and stealth lasts too long. stealth is so long that u actually cant always see the thief coming. stealth is so long that if the thief messes up, he can easily disappear until all CD’s reset. no risk for generally high reward. anyway, it’s the same crap we’ve been saying since beta.

nerva.7940:

main problem is stealth uptime. CD’s are straight up too low and stealth lasts too long. stealth is so long that u actually cant always see the thief coming. stealth is so long that if the thief messes up, he can easily disappear until all CD’s reset. no risk for generally high reward. anyway, it’s the same crap we’ve been saying since beta.

To quote Penny Arcade. “So the next time you see player’s crying on the forum for some game element to be nerfed, wait a few weeks and see what happens. Did the development team actually have to go in a change something with a patch. OR did the player’s move on and demand some different element be nerfed…If it’s the former the players were probably right and something really was broken”

We’ve waited months!

Fellknight.4820:

As of yet there has not been a single thief reply in defense of why any class should have

1. Highest Mobility
2. Highest Damage
3. Most Escapes

1. Highest mobility, yes but there are many classes that are on par.
2. Highest damage? No. Highest success rate of pulling off the profession’s highest damage skill? Yes. Do you understand the difference? It’s a given since thieves are granted teleportation and stealth skills.
3. Most escapes – Why not? What is wrong with thieves having the most escapes? Isn’t that the concept of a thief? What is a thiefs main concern when you know, being a thief? Not get caught, right? Lol no i must be wrong, lets give most escapes to Eles.

Fellknight.4820:

All I’ve seen is totally off topic rants, personal assaults, and blind ignorance.

Your rants are off topic. You make a post of why Thieves should get nerf (which they have been and will be very soon too) Then you make rants, quoting people how they don’t know anything and how they’re Thief fanboys. Personal assaults? You’re one to talk, quoting people with no constructive feedback and specifically calling out people’s names in your post. Hypocrite much? Lol dont even get me started w/ ignorance. You’re THE most blind person in this topic. And the sad part is that you started this topic.

Fellknight.4820:

I can only argue logical concise discourse.

I guess a condition spec thief able to drop any player/class in 10 seconds is logical. Lets make a bet for 400 gold, If you can kill me in 10 seconds then you win.

Fellknight.4820:

I cannot play pretend that there is still a pvp playerbase when in reality it’s about 1% of the total players that bought the game doing pvp.

I can’t pretend that the pvp playerbase didn’t drop off a cliff everytime a pvp patch came out that addressed none of the problems with thieves.

I can’t pretend that there hasn’t been 500,000 posts all yelling to change this class in 4 months. I’ve never seen so many posts/views/replies about one class in a new game in my life.

So how come we have to pretend this class is balanced because 1 dev and 15 thief players can’t figure out how to pvp with even scaled abilities.

Stop, Just Stop. Do you understand why GW2 is dieing? the Spvp is a very biased pvp option (which not many people prefer), and WvWvW is getting old. Can I remind you that WvWvW is actually more popular then sPVP. WvWvW is the money maker. And when that money maker system gets too repetitive with no rewards and no GvG content whatsoever, then people are bound to leave. What’s more dramatic? Every few player here and there leaving cuz they cannot counter a thief? Or the fact that a whole guild leaving because they expected GvG content and actual rewards? War Machine Guild is a prime example of this. a couple weeks ago one of the war machine leaders made a post in wvwvw stating his concern for wvwvw and said how WM as whole came to GW2 w/ 1000 members and now they only have 50 core members left. Do you understand the numbers I’m putting out there?

You’re pretty suspicious from my eyes. Claiming you’re a rank 30 thief (which no one gives a fk about) to make it seem like you hold some value about thieves yet you bash other thief players and insult them by referring them to fanboys. Posting misguided information while not even getting your facts straight. While maintaining a name fellknight. Seems like a name a heavy armor player uses, right? I guess knights can be thieves too [insert shrug].

You should read muscarine.5136’s post regarding your recent ones. What’s your counter argument on that? All i have to say is when i read that, “DAMMMmmmmmmmmmm, ownt!”

Be real, stop being fake.

Jason Segel.2908:

Quit trying to be elitist bringing up LOL.

Yeah, comparing GW2 to a highly PvP oriented game isn’t fair. I’ve been saying ‘try Forge’ a lot recently simply because it’s basically a better version of spvp, but new skills and mechanics to learn all over again and no customization. The game has a stun lock limit. Stun-lock-limit. That’s saying something about the devs. They know and listen to the bullkitten we/they are going through in GW2. It’s been kinda wierd switching from Gw2 pve to Forge for pvp, but it’s surprisingly efficient. I can even play it while I’m waiting for 3 hours in paid queue. Not to mention you can perma stealth with the assassin, but you’re revealed when hit…instantly no culling kitten.

bladie.5084:

Fellknight.4820:

As of yet there has not been a single thief reply in defense of why any class should have

1. Highest Mobility
2. Highest Damage
3. Most Escapes

1. Highest mobility, yes but there are many classes that are on par.
2. Highest damage? No. Highest success rate of pulling off the profession’s highest damage skill? Yes. Do you understand the difference? It’s a given since thieves are granted teleportation and stealth skills.
3. Most escapes – Why not? What is wrong with thieves having the most escapes? Isn’t that the concept of a thief? What is a thiefs main concern when you know, being a thief? Not get caught, right? Lol no i must be wrong, lets give most escapes to Eles.

Perfect example of what I’m taking about a thief stating they dont have the highest dmg lol because there damage isn’t the highest. It’s just that there the best at pulling it off, WHO CARES PEOPLE STILL DIE IN 1.5 seconds, does it matter how it happened NO it matters that it’s happening.

Don’t Have the best Mobility lol just lol. I’ve never seen a class cross a map at 50% run speed and be able to run right past the entire enemy team. Now that’s mobility on par with NO ONE ELSE!

And conceding to the fact they have the most escapes so there balanced

LOL yea there balanced if you lie and say they aren’t the most mobile and don’t have the highest dmg in the game. Then he tells me Be real, stop being fake. Oh the hypocrisy.

thieves have the most reliable burst in the game, period. simply because u cant really dodge it unless you get lucky, or waste endurance before his opener. there is no skill to it. there needs to be a longer delay before the damage hits, after a thief shadowsteps, maybe 0.25 of a second.

another option is to increase Revealed to 4-5 seconds, instead of 3. keep the burst.

Fellknight.4820:

bladie.5084:

Fellknight.4820:

As of yet there has not been a single thief reply in defense of why any class should have

1. Highest Mobility
2. Highest Damage
3. Most Escapes

1. Highest mobility, yes but there are many classes that are on par.
2. Highest damage? No. Highest success rate of pulling off the profession’s highest damage skill? Yes. Do you understand the difference? It’s a given since thieves are granted teleportation and stealth skills.
3. Most escapes – Why not? What is wrong with thieves having the most escapes? Isn’t that the concept of a thief? What is a thiefs main concern when you know, being a thief? Not get caught, right? Lol no i must be wrong, lets give most escapes to Eles.

Perfect example of what I’m taking about a thief stating they dont have the highest dmg lol because there damage isn’t the highest. It’s just that there the best at pulling it off, WHO CARES PEOPLE STILL DIE IN 1.5 seconds, does it matter how it happened NO it matters that it’s happening.

Don’t Have the best Mobility lol just lol. I’ve never seen a class cross a map at 50% run speed and be able to run right past the entire enemy team. Now that’s mobility on par with NO ONE ELSE!

And conceding to the fact they have the most escapes so there balanced

LOL yea there balanced if you lie and say they aren’t the most mobile and don’t have the highest dmg in the game. Then he tells me Be real, stop being fake. Oh the hypocrisy.

I’m grinning like im winning. Have I ever once stated that I fully agreed that Thieves are perfectly balanced and does not need further fixing? No. I’ve previously stated that the BS set up needs a bit more extreme nerf and there shouldn’t be a reward trait for thieves stealthing (except for more movement options). Having the ability to stealth already is Luxury itself.

I was simply answering your question and It’s right, we don’t have the highest damage. Like said, teleporting or cloaking gives us a higher chance to pull off our attacks. What if a warrior had cloak as well? Just what if?

i LOLed so hard btw. I stated and confirmed that they DO have the best mobility. So why are you loling, quoting me, and stating that i said that they dont? Now i get it. There’s something wrong with you. You need to get that kitten checked out.

Can I ask you a question? Which class should have the most escapes? Please enlighten me?

Seems like you really, truly, honestly don’t understand the difference between which class has the best burst damage and which class has the highest success rate of pulling off their best burst damage. That was the answer to your statement.

Your counter arguments are rather poor.

And yeah, you’re an obvious hypocrite. stop being fake, and be real for once.

nerva.7940:

thieves have the most reliable burst in the game, period. simply because u cant really dodge it unless you get lucky, or waste endurance before his opener. there is no skill to it. there needs to be a longer delay before the damage hits, after a thief shadowsteps, maybe 0.25 of a second.

another option is to increase Revealed to 4-5 seconds, instead of 3. keep the burst.

Thank you, for actually being able to differentiate a reliable setup burst and the number one best burst damage. You’d be surprise of how many ACTUAL thieves agree and wants to work with Arena by giving helpful feedbacks of what thieves need changing.

The ONLY problem with thief is the current exploit that uses a macro+haste to spam 5 seeker before you can be visible.

Lukin.4061:

There are 2 usual kind of thieves: a backstabber and a bleeder. Backstabbers dmg is easily negated by stunbreak on basilisk venom+well of blindness or death shroud + fear, also put a fear mark beneath your legs and spread other marks around when thief restealths – they will trigger when he steps on them. This thief usually has no condition removal only his heal, and runs with ~14k hp, so either interrupt his heal or let him restealth and die from conditions you restacked on him.

I’m kind of confused with your post. You’re trying to defend Thieves using a Necromancer as an example.

The only conclusion I can can come up with, is, your main is a Thief but you PvP a lot/more on your necro, like me (except I don’t defend thieves, I think they’re broken as kitten).

Don’t get me wrong, it sounds like you know both class’s perfectly well.

I’m just confused with how and why you’re trying to justify it as balanced -versus this necro build I think you’re depicting- when you say.

BV+Backstab opener is easily countered by randomstunbreak.

Assume the Thief is as equally as skilled as you.

Problems:

• You MUST have a stunbreaking Utility.
• You HAVE to use your stunbreak, there’s no chance of just eating the BV.
• Necro’s stunbreaks aren’t teleports, so you’re still going to get hit by Backstab, if you just stunbreak alone.

Counters/Solutions:

• You can use Death Shroud and sponge the damage, then Fear them after they Backstab you; assuming you actually have Life Force. – (10s CD + 15s CD + Life Force)
• You can stunbreak + Dodgeroll + Mark of Chillbains. (60s CD + 16s CD + 50% Endurance)
• You can stunbreak + Reapers mark (60s CD + 32s CD)
• You can stunbreak + Any Well(Protection(Traited))/Well of Darkness. (60s CD + 48s CD)
• If you’re pro, you can see them cast CnD and Dodgeroll the BV-CnD>Mug.

With that being said you’re still extremely likely to be hit by the full force of a Backstab if you’re not kittening Jackie Chan with a keyboard. And even if it does work, what exactly have you accomplished? All you’re really trying to do is avoid an attack with a pseudo 3s cooldown… Blowing minutes worth of Cooldowns, that don’t even deal any noticable damage. Doesn’t sound like a good trade off to me.

Conclusion:

• Thieves don’t even really need BV to kill you.
• You need to use all of your Cooldowns just to prolong your inevitable death.

Balance isn’t the first word that comes to my mind.

As for your argument about Condition removal… I’m sincerely happy the Thieves you encounter are stupid enough not to use -arguably, but IMO- the best trait we have.

Obviously this/our/your build is perfectly capable of destroying nub thieves, but that’s about it.

Raytek.6193:

No one is ‘protecting’ anything. Learn how to play before calling things OP.

Did it ever occur to you that things might be just the other way around? Maybe you need to learn to play if such a class is balanced in your hands.

Point is: such “arguments” don’t prove anything because they can be easily applied to you as well.

People can never be unbiased. After a while, the state of your class becomes the new “normal”. It is even quite natural to fight change and react strongly with fear/anger against changes. It takes a significant cognitive effort and some self-insight to realize why you react as you do, and evaluate if it is beneficial. You may even delude yourself and other with claims such as “I always want a balanced game”, but in reality people don’t want the changes, if they have personal consequences.

I’m so sick of people calling OP everything that kills them. Well maybe is not the class but the fact that that player is rank 30+ and played 1000+ tournaments and maybe this guy have more experience then you, and you can’t kill him because he is beter then you. But you see the class he plays as OP because you don’t want to admit that you need to learn to play!

For every kill a thief makes, 3 QQ threads are created.

All things being equal a guardian should win a 1on1 vs a thief.

Having said that.
Where are all the complaint threads about guardians, engys etc.

its clear the thief/mesmer need small adjustement. EVEN IF all they are doing is making ‘noobs’ rage, if they are really bothering that many ppl myb a small tiny adjustment is in order.
For example on theif a tiny nerf to heartseeker range.
( i play a thief as a main).

daydream.2938:

All things being equal a guardian should win a 1on1 vs a thief.

Having said that.
Where are all the complaint threads about guardians, engys etc.

its clear the thief/mesmer need small adjustement. EVEN IF all they are doing is making ‘noobs’ rage, if they are really bothering that many ppl myb a small tiny adjustment is in order.
For example on theif a tiny nerf to heartseeker range.
( i play a thief as a main).

Every non glass cannon spec wins 1×1 against a BS build, in a even fight.
BS build is not meant to 1×1, but to pick people off when they are wandering unaware.

Raytek.6193:

What PvP rank are you?

This guy is a bad thief.

jajajajajajaja

-Icifyr

I can live with thieves in most cases, since they nerfed most real OP damage like pistol whip and heartseeker. There are only thing that really annoy me about thief:

The first one is the abundance of stealth, especially when playing on my mesmer. Since you can’t create clones without a target and mesmers are not that AoE-based, a thief can almost always escape from a battle that it is about to lose, leaving me annoyed because if it had been any other profession, I would have gotten the kill. It is the only real ‘coward’ profession in GW2 because it is the only profession that actually benefits from running away from a fight.

But that is not the worst part. The real OP stuff is the cluster bombs. Especially when the thief has a height advantage and you’re in the middle of a hectic fight, you can’t do anything about a thief just clusterbombing the hell out of your entire team in tPvP. Since the AoE damage can be repeated that fast, it is likely you get defeated with half the damage done by just cluster bombs, requiring no skill however to use.
I would suggest three things for fixing this (either one is fine to me):
- Make the area of effect smaller so it is easier to evade and doesn’t down entire teams.
- Make it requiring more initiative (even with a little higher damage output)
- Make it do less damage (less creative and skillfull than the other 2 options)

or maybe nerf it in multiple of the ways listed up here but make it do a condition such as a cripple, increasing the kiting ability of the thief (kiting actually requires some skill, as opposed to just standing still and landing some cluster bombs over the enemy team)

As for the rest, idc about backstab thieves as long as I see them coming in my direction. The stealthing for more than 5 seconds is what makes it really annoying.
Condition thieves are actually fun to play against, since they do good damage but can’t rely on just standing at a distance.

Its funny that ppl don’t even complain about the worst thief spec of them all (spvp wise) – that being the 0/0/30/20/20 D/D, D/P condition/healing spec. Something like:

http://www.ign.com/builds/guild-wars-2?class=thief&d=003004000000000000000005004000000000000000031046035048056000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000030000000000106000105000113020000000000122000130000000020000000000141000145

With Lich Runes on Armor, + 10% bleeding on MH Dagger, corruption on offhand dagger. Secondary weapons use +10% bleeding and battle. Use Shaman amulet with jewel and you’ll have yourself plenty of condition damage, healing, and toughness to do whatever the hell you want. I play this every once in a blue moon, and I just laugh at how much control I have over almost all the fights I am in. Caltrops, DB, DB, Dodge, Dodge, (steal if boons go up), CnD, heal up,……. and guess what is next?? I bet you can’t!

The problem with thieve’s is initiative ….. its initiative initiative, initiative, and initiative. They ability to use the same weapon skill over and over when no other class can is just too great.

Fellknight.4820:

Raytek.6193:

What PvP rank are you?

I’m rank 30 play a thief condition spec myself and there is nothing i haven’t encountered on my thief that I can’t kill in under 10 seconds. The best bunker guardian with awesome condition removal will crumble before me. I get a 4 second daze from my steal and switch to my pistol’s vs bunkers and burn them down by mixing blind, bleed, and high unload spike dmg while timing my daze with the stolen over the top insane daze for 4 seconds.

My question to you is how little common sense can you have to not realize when your playing something set to monkey easy mode in pvp?

Have you ever won a tournament in another game for real life cash?

Have you ever been ranked by game pro as one of the best pvpers in a game?

Have you come in .01% in the ranking system of any pvp game with over 10 million players?

Because if you have you would never embaress yourself by defending a class this overpowered.

Hit me up in game, Ill give you a list of guardians that will crush you ^^.

Its really sad that Fellknight is having to fight a one-man battle with all the thieves in this thread. Especially since his argument is very clear and rather difficult to argue against – he is pretty much saying thief design philosophy is bad. Unfortunately anet have stated themselves “Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage.”.

I dont agree with this which is why I pretty much quit sPvP a while back. Given the state of sPvP I suspect that a great deal of other people agree with me. It really has come down now to if you dont like it, don’t play it.

Are all you thieves happy with the virtually empty mists?

ehtom.5047:

Its really sad that Fellknight is having to fight a one-man battle with all the thieves in this thread. Especially since his argument is very clear and rather difficult to argue against – he is pretty much saying thief design philosophy is bad. Unfortunately anet have stated themselves “Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage.”.

I dont agree with this which is why I pretty much quit sPvP a while back. Given the state of sPvP I suspect that a great deal of other people agree with me. It really has come down now to if you dont like it, don’t play it.

Are all you thieves happy with the virtually empty mists?

What the hell is wrong with you ?

Read his “rather difficult to argue against arguments” he doesn’t even know the proper effects of the skills and traits he quotes.

Fellknight.4820:

What part of I ignore thief fanboys don’t you understand that means Daays, Lukin, Mindlessruff, ayedunited, Evilapprentice etc.

Anyone who spends 99.9% of their time on the forum defending the most grossily overpowered class every seen in a mmo I ignore. You all should have been perma banned from the forums ages ago for your balatant ABUSE of the forum’s TOS but the fact that the mod ignores your insane amount of infractions is more proof that the head dev plays a thief. Yet anyone who disagree’s with you gets banned and infracted while your post’s which consist of trolling and fanboy nonsense like L2play are dismissed.

Your gonna deny that thieve’s have more mobility, escapes and the highest dmg of any class and to you thats balanced? Really?

Mobility:

Fleet Shadow: 50% run speed in stealth coupled with shadow refuge makes you the only class in the game that can cross a map unhindered.
Fleet shadow is/was bugged, and only works in batlle; shadow refuge forces you to stay 4 seconds (not 3, as you said) in stealth first, so forget that super map crossing, you are just obtuse and very ignorant on this 2 skills

Shadow trap: Better than Mesmer’s portal in the fact that it’s brainless set it on a node, trebuchet, Savnir/Chieftan and you auto port back to it the minute it detects movement and it stealth’s you for 5 seconds.
Should i just lol here? better than the most overpowered utility in the game, in tourny play? a perfect colapse skill, that ports multiple elements across the map, for either defending or offending? Allow me to lol: ah…ah…ah

Shadow step: A teleport and teleport return with stun breaker that REMOVES CONDITIONS!
meet my elementalist cantrip: Hi, my name is cleansing fire, i stun break, remove as many conditions as shadowstep, i have AOE burning, and i can be traited to give regen, 3 stacks of might and vigor, which in turn lets me remove even more conditions if traited for condition removal on regen, i have same cooldown as shadowstep

Shadow Signet: 25% steady run speed
Sure. Coz that is better than my ele’s perma swift with RTL and flashing lightning. And thieves, as of the last patch, are now the only ones with this signet steady speed. Right.

Inf. Arrow: Shortbow spammable teleport
Good, no doubt. But spammable? hardly. Its brilliant on khylo, but why shouldnt we have at least something nice outside of burst? Coz thats all we have going for us, mostly. Burst. The highest in game? why not? One class had to be the one at that, if it wasnt thieves it would be necros, or eles, or guardians, or rangers…You get the idea. Or not, being that it is you…

Escapes:

Shadow Refuge: 10 second invis with hidden assassin trait that can be used to gain 10 stacks of might. And with shadow Rejuv can be used to get a ton of life back. And I’ve heard the Bs arguement that you can be hit in it, yeah you get a huge circle you can move around in and leave in 3 secs and retain the 10 sec stealth.
Hitting a thief inside of this “bubble” is the easiest task ever, i always get hit when i use it, unless im up against someone clueless, like that guy, Fellknight, who cant hit me inside of it regardless. Oh, and its 4 secs, plz.

Blinding Powder: With trait and utility skill
And what? What do you mean here? Another one of your inchoerent sentences? Yup.

Cnd: 6 inniative spammable invis
Spammable? hardly, mate, hardly, infact, miss one (easy when ur opponent can see you, hard/impossible with steal), and ur pretty much out of juice. Moving on on this one, ur just obtuse.

Hide in shadows: A heal plus stealth plus remove all conditions, WHAT?
WHAT? ALL CONDITIONS? WHAT? OMG, ure clueless…

Master of Deception: For 10 pts in Shadow Arts dropping every stealth ability CD by 20%
Deception what? Every stealth what? OMG, ure clueless.

Damage:

Everyone knows these guys can deal it out better than any class and theres many ways to do it.

But every thief fanboy is going to pretend these abilities dont exist that they die like a dusk till dawn vamp exposed to sunlight when hit and they arent the easiest evade/escape get out of jail from any problem class in the game, WITH THE HIGHEST DMG!

Sorry but all of these things will make any new player to this game who has experienced any other MMO leave and never turn back, thinking what 90% of the pvp playerbase already knows, these devs are nuts.

Just wanted to clarify a few (many) mistakes in this post.

@Eduardo
You’ve got a typo there when you’re talking about Signet of Shadows. I think you meant to bring light of the fact Ele’s Signet of Air has all the effects of Signet of Shadows with a shorter cooldown and actually damaging.

Signet of Shadows:
Passive: Grants a 25% increase in movement speed.
Active: Blind foes near your target.
-Blind: 5 s
-Radius: 240
-Range: 1,200
Cooldown: 30 Sec
Skill Points: 6

Signet of Air:
Passive: Grants a 25% increase in movement speed.
Active: Blind your target and nearby foes.
-Blind: 5 s
-Damage: 122
-Radius: 240
-Range: 1,200
Cooldown: 20 Sec
Skill Points: 3

Fellknight.4820:

As of yet there has not been a single thief reply in defense of why any class should have

1. Highest Mobility
2. Highest Damage
3. Most Escapes

All I’ve seen is totally off topic rants, personal assaults, and blind ignorance.

I can only argue logical concise discourse.

I cannot play pretend that there is still a pvp playerbase when in reality it’s about 1% of the total players that bought the game doing pvp.

I can’t pretend that the pvp playerbase didn’t drop off a cliff everytime a pvp patch came out that addressed none of the problems with thieves.

I can’t pretend that there hasn’t been 500,000 posts all yelling to change this class in 4 months. I’ve never seen so many posts/views/replies about one class in a new game in my life.

So how come we have to pretend this class is balanced because 1 dev and 15 thief players can’t figure out how to pvp with even scaled abilities.

The reason the thief has

1. Highest Mobility
2. Highest Damage
3. Most Escapes
Is because it was designed that way.

This is the class philosophy for Thieves as stated by a developer from Dec 14th Patch.

Thief
Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.

So.
Here’s how this will change.
You ( as in everyone who just wants to whine)
Write up the code for a complete theif overhaul, rewrite their skills to be as effective as the current gimmick build, re-arrange thier traits and powers so that the thief has efficiency in other area’s besides damage.
Then re-write the class philosophy and why this would be a better direction for it.

Things arent going to be knee-jerk nerfed like WoW or other games, where whining gets you everything.
Try coming together and actually working on something productive rather than
" it hurts nerf it now Q_Q"

http://youtu.be/hByqoWsnz-I

^ State of the game vid with J.Sharp.
I would suggest everyone watch it.
Its pretty informational

The 50% movement speed while stealth doesn’t work at all, in stealth your movement speed seems to be lowered, it takes the same time as SoS (25%) to get to one area to the next with stealth (50% speed.).

it seems to have the same speed as SoS, so if you have SoS, the trait is worthless.

Daecollo.9578:

The 50% movement speed while stealth doesn’t work at all, in stealth your movement speed seems to be lowered, it takes the same time as SoS (25%) to get to one area to the next with stealth (50% speed.).

it seems to have the same speed as SoS, so if you have SoS, the trait is worthless.

Speed buffs dont stack..

Swiftness overwrites SoS or SoA

SoS or SoA overwrites traits, until the signets passive effect is gone ( at least thats what i have noticed on my thief and ele).

Fellknight.4820:

Raytek.6193:

What PvP rank are you?

I’m rank 30 play a thief condition spec myself and there is nothing i haven’t encountered on my thief that I can’t kill in under 10 seconds. The best bunker guardian with awesome condition removal will crumble before me. I get a 4 second daze from my steal and switch to my pistol’s vs bunkers and burn them down by mixing blind, bleed, and high unload spike dmg while timing my daze with the stolen over the top insane daze for 4 seconds.

My question to you is how little common sense can you have to not realize when your playing something set to monkey easy mode in pvp?

Have you ever won a tournament in another game for real life cash?

Have you ever been ranked by game pro as one of the best pvpers in a game?

Have you come in .01% in the ranking system of any pvp game with over 10 million players?

Because if you have you would never embaress yourself by defending a class this overpowered.

Yawn. Another member pretending to be a thief complaining because he got pwned. Nothing to see here.

Fellknight.4820:

nerva.7940:

main problem is stealth uptime. CD’s are straight up too low and stealth lasts too long. stealth is so long that u actually cant always see the thief coming. stealth is so long that if the thief messes up, he can easily disappear until all CD’s reset. no risk for generally high reward. anyway, it’s the same crap we’ve been saying since beta.

To quote Penny Arcade. “So the next time you see player’s crying on the forum for some game element to be nerfed, wait a few weeks and see what happens. Did the development team actually have to go in a change something with a patch. OR did the player’s move on and demand some different element be nerfed…If it’s the former the players were probably right and something really was broken”

We’ve waited months!

So because you used a quote from someone else which is anecdotal evidence, that means you are 100% correct?

I guess upgrade that logic next time! Because it doesn’t exist in your reasoning!