Guild Wars 2

I do not know about you guys, I think by concept the matchmaking is OKAY, but here is the problem:

How do we calculate MMR?

• Yes the wiki provides some explanation but the problem arises if that artificial number is a true representation of player skill.

If there is a CONCRETE, CONSTANT, CRITERIA that we will base the MMR from, I am sure everyone would get GOOD matches.

The problem we have now is X PLAYER’S MMR IS THIS (?) BUT HE/SHE PLAYS LIKE THIS (?)

If we knew that, These type of matches can be eliminated thus giving ALL PLAYERS FUN and DECENT MATCHES

StickerHappy.8052:

The problem we have now is X PLAYER’S MMR IS THIS (?) BUT HE/SHE PLAYS LIKE THIS (?)

the problem we have now is that players look to their win rate to try to say something about their mmr and then come here and kitten about losing without knowing a kitten thing about anyones mmr or whether the game(s) they just played was or was not anything that could be called “fair”.

That is some grade A matchmaking. Working as designed, I guess.

How is this match up even possible??? How kittened up is the MM algorithm? ? Like really??

Fivedawgs.4267:

How is this match up even possible??? How kittened up is the MM algorithm? ? Like really??

It’s simple, the players are taken considering only their actual pips. So they are all inside the +/-15 pips range (they must be high sapphire tiers and lower ruby tiers).

After that, the fantastic MM just stacks the team: the lowest MMR players on a team, and the higher MMR players on the other.

This only happens when you queue in off hours like 4 am, 9 am etc. Playerpool gets too small and I think matchmaker starts broadening the mmr bracket after some time in queue.

So basically… if you have 20% longer queue than avg queuetime, you risk being the only high mmr in a team with below avg mmr. Especially in diamond atm.

But… I think there’s a max setting on how big the bracket can be… I think I read on a blogpost that they adjusted this not so long ago to be a bit tighter after people complained about it.

Yasi.9065:

This only happens when you queue in off hours like 4 am, 9 am etc. Playerpool gets too small and I think matchmaker starts broadening the mmr bracket after some time in queue.

So basically… if you have 20% longer queue than avg queuetime, you risk being the only high mmr in a team with below avg mmr. Especially in diamond atm.

But… I think there’s a max setting on how big the bracket can be… I think I read on a blogpost that they adjusted this not so long ago to be a bit tighter after people complained about it.

Actually the time is on the mini map if you look closely. it 7:48 pm clearly not off peak hours.

Galandil.9641:

Fivedawgs.4267:

How is this match up even possible??? How kittened up is the MM algorithm? ? Like really??

It’s simple, the players are taken considering only their actual pips. So they are all inside the +/-15 pips range (they must be high sapphire tiers and lower ruby tiers).

After that, the fantastic MM just stacks the team: the lowest MMR players on a team, and the higher MMR players on the other.

This is exactly the point, yet no one seems to credit your post, It does not matter how many pips difference, the problem is The skill level of teammates/opponents are not equal so you get these blowout matches.

How do you compute someones skill level?

Stand The Wall.6987:

How do you compute someones skill level?

This is exactly the problem. The MMR is supposed to do that. If the MMR was reset this season (which they did not do during S1 as well), maybe we will have a more accurate W/L ratio.

Another thing is that, If MMRwas a bit accurate, you will have really close matches and none of those 500-<100 matches (assuming no one DCs and PUG vs PUG)

StickerHappy, I get your frustration, but please, at least try to not contradict yourself every second post.

If mmr is accurate or not doesnt have any influence on enemy team, since matchmaker currently matches teams according to mmr only internally – meaning, mmr of enemy team is not taken into consideration, only pip range.

So, as long as you dont have a really high mmr, you will get blowout matches every now and then, every time theres enough players for a team with a higher mmr to be assembled.

Why did they do that? Because otherwise everybody could reach legendary just by grinding out games, since they always go against enemies that match their own skill level.

Of course there are some outlier, either people getting carried by luck to ruby and getting increasingly better mmr due to getting matched with good people.
Which influences directly the opposite… people getting those carried players on their team due to their inflated mmr… and loosing games because of them, sliding down more and more into unrecoverable mmr hell.

Solution MMR hell: make your own team, avoid mmr all together.
Solution blowout matches throughout: wait another week or so to reduce the chances of getting matched against really good teams even more.

Yasi.9065:

StickerHappy, I get your frustration, but please, at least try to not contradict yourself every second post.

If mmr is accurate or not doesnt have any influence on enemy team, since matchmaker currently matches teams according to mmr only internally – meaning, mmr of enemy team is not taken into consideration, only pip range.

So, as long as you dont have a really high mmr, you will get blowout matches every now and then, every time theres enough players for a team with a higher mmr to be assembled.

Why did they do that? Because otherwise everybody could reach legendary just by grinding out games, since they always go against enemies that match their own skill level.

Of course there are some outlier, either people getting carried by luck to ruby and getting increasingly better mmr due to getting matched with good people.
Which influences directly the opposite… people getting those carried players on their team due to their inflated mmr… and loosing games because of them, sliding down more and more into unrecoverable mmr hell.

Solution MMR hell: make your own team, avoid mmr all together.
Solution blowout matches throughout: wait another week or so to reduce the chances of getting matched against really good teams even more.

Make a team? That’s not even a solution. If you make a 5 man, chances are you’ll be facing better teams and premades bec you have high collective MMR.

I give up. You just dont want to understand it. But in case you do… please carefully read all I posted. Not just keywords. Word for word

And in case you dont believe me…. read this:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pvp-league-season-two-changes/
official source…

Yasi.9065:

I give up. You just dont want to understand it. But in case you do… please carefully read all I posted. Not just keywords. Word for word

And in case you dont believe me…. read this:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pvp-league-season-two-changes/
official source…

Okay please explain to me the phrase “Same Skill Level As Your Own” What is that? Countless of matches you and I had teammates who have no idea what they are doing. Why is that?

insanemaniac.2456:

StickerHappy.8052:

The problem we have now is X PLAYER’S MMR IS THIS (?) BUT HE/SHE PLAYS LIKE THIS (?)

the problem we have now is that players look to their win rate to try to say something about their mmr and then come here and kitten about losing without knowing a kitten thing about anyones mmr or whether the game(s) they just played was or was not anything that could be called “fair”.

Look closer. OP won.

@ALL

I’m not whining or anything, just trying to figure out some solutions. I am in Ruby myself and that’s the only thing I need for the legendary backpack.

Because neither you, nor me are high mmr and the pool of just below average mmr and just above average mmr is biiiiiiiiiiig… with lots of fish that dont necessarily have the exact correct mmr. Mind you, not talking about outliers (those getting carried by luck to a higher than average mmr at start of season thanks to getting avg mmr when starting fresh). Those arent THAT often in matches tbh.

No Im talking about players that just grinded their way into a slightly below average mmr, with tons of games, but without actually really improving their game. Rather just getting lucky once in a while, getting carried to victories because their teammates adjust to them. Those taking cookie cutter approach of always going 4-1, or never glance at minimap during a fight to see whats happening on other points. They will get carried every other match by someone constantly rotating side points, or someone adjusting teamcomp to fit 4-1 approach.

Players that got a slightly inflated above average mmr because they are queueing with friends/guildmates that will always tell them exactly what to do and which build is best for it… without actually learning anything from it.
They will try to do what works with their friends, but without them, it doesnt. Because the team isnt flexible enough in soloqueue… and lets be honest, most soloqueue games you get at least 2 chiefs, trying to do their thing instead of just bowing to someone elses strategy, no matter if its good or not.

List is endless… as is the amount of avg mmr players.

Yasi.9065:

Because neither you, nor me are high mmr and the pool of just below average mmr and just above average mmr is biiiiiiiiiiig… with lots of fish that dont necessarily have the exact correct mmr. Mind you, not talking about outliers (those getting carried by luck to a higher than average mmr at start of season thanks to getting avg mmr when starting fresh). Those arent THAT often in matches tbh.

No Im talking about players that just grinded their way into a slightly below average mmr, with tons of games, but without actually really improving their game. Rather just getting lucky once in a while, getting carried to victories because their teammates adjust to them. Those taking cookie cutter approach of always going 4-1, or never glance at minimap during a fight to see whats happening on other points. They will get carried every other match by someone constantly rotating side points, or someone adjusting teamcomp to fit 4-1 approach.

Players that got a slightly inflated above average mmr because they are queueing with friends/guildmates that will always tell them exactly what to do and which build is best for it… without actually learning anything from it.
They will try to do what works with their friends, but without them, it doesnt. Because the team isnt flexible enough in soloqueue… and lets be honest, most soloqueue games you get at least 2 chiefs, trying to do their thing instead of just bowing to someone elses strategy, no matter if its good or not.

List is endless… as is the amount of avg mmr players.

So this is exactly the point of my post.

• We need something concrete or constant criteria for correlating MMR and Skill, that way we will get more balanced matches if the source of players you are gonna get are from a SPECIFIC set.

You said it yourself, “not exact MMR”.

One thing I could suggest is:

• Make Comms available built in in the game, so when you enter a match, everyone will be in Comms.

This system works because mmr is inaccurate…with accurate mmr you Can really don’t play the game.
All the matches are large predictable.
And second…this system cannot correct the MMR.so if your MMR is inaccurate at the start now is more inaccurate.

You are hugely exaggerating the mmr differences in your mind.

As an example… I use big numbers here to make it even more obvious….

Progamer → mmr 3000
Avg → mmr 1500
Bad player → mmr 700

Now slightly above avg is probably somewhere around 1800, slightly below 1200.

If the brackets for matchmaking are set to +/- 250, and the deviation from perfectly calculated mmr is at around 10%, then you can easily get someone that should be considered a slightly below avg player mixed in with the average crowd at 1500. You also can get put in with the average crowd as a slightly above avg player….

Now you might think, just reduce bracket size… they are doing that now and again… but if bracket size is too small, you get endless queues for some or even most.

As to a more constant criteria… I think winrate is actually the most constant one. Which is being used

Forcing comms is not the solution. If nobody listens, and nobody speaks, its useless. But then, so is when nobody uses teamchat to announce stuff like “decapping far”, “help close” or everybody just ignores teamchat and minimap.
GW2 already has enough tools for in-game communication during a match. Most just dont use it.

Astralporing.1957:

insanemaniac.2456:

StickerHappy.8052:

The problem we have now is X PLAYER’S MMR IS THIS (?) BUT HE/SHE PLAYS LIKE THIS (?)

the problem we have now is that players look to their win rate to try to say something about their mmr and then come here and kitten about losing without knowing a kitten thing about anyones mmr or whether the game(s) they just played was or was not anything that could be called “fair”.

Look closer. OP won.

look closer. op winning or losing doesnt matter.

Yasi.9065:

If the brackets for matchmaking are set to +/- 250, and the deviation from perfectly calculated mmr is at around 10%, then you can easily get someone that should be considered a slightly below avg player mixed in with the average crowd at 1500. You also can get put in with the average crowd as a slightly above avg player….

Yasi, pls read my post before. MMR is not taken into account when chosing the 10 players pool for creating a match, the only criteria is the pips range of all players (which must fall inside a maximum range of, apparently, +/- 15 pips).

The MMR is used only to stack the teams: the 5 lowest MMR players in one team, the 5 highest in the other.

And that’s what causing the problem.

It’s interesting you say “really good players that belong there.”

Here’s the issue I have with that; If we base divisions purely on skill level, then some players will get placed highly with almost no effort. Others, like myself will never make it. This is an entitlement based system. I can’t see how that won’t alienate most players.

Also, what about the value of work and effort? No, I’m not an ESL player and have no desire to be… I’d be willing to bet I’ve put in as much time and work as some of them this season though. I ought to be rewarded for that.

Galandil.9641:

Yasi.9065:

If the brackets for matchmaking are set to +/- 250, and the deviation from perfectly calculated mmr is at around 10%, then you can easily get someone that should be considered a slightly below avg player mixed in with the average crowd at 1500. You also can get put in with the average crowd as a slightly above avg player….

Yasi, pls read my post before. MMR is not taken into account when chosing the 10 players pool for creating a match, the only criteria is the pips range of all players (which must fall inside a maximum range of, apparently, +/- 15 pips).

The MMR is used only to stack the teams: the 5 lowest MMR players in one team, the 5 highest in the other.

And that’s what causing the problem.

I’ll highlight this part right here. Yasi keeps ignoring it. No matter how good you are, it only plays a factor of the MMR. The matchmaking should also match you with even skilled opponents, that way there is a 50/50 chance of winning.

And Yasi, we can put a lot of numbers here for MMR but it is still wont be enough to actually correlate to skill.

Sure win percentage is a good modifier, butANET DID NOT RESET MMR AGAIN for whatever reason.

Well, no, I wasnt. But now that you mention it… if you cant see the benefit of dueling someone with the counter build to your teambuild… then, Im sorry… but you really arent as good as you think.

Im not even commenting on that “top 8” ToL3.

And anet probably didnt reset mmr because kickoff period would have taken too long for mmr to set itself to correct value. Its why you need pre-season for that.
Also, tbh, Im kinda glad. All those mmr tankers from last season got punished for it now. Way to go anet !

Galandil.9641:

Yasi.9065:

If the brackets for matchmaking are set to +/- 250, and the deviation from perfectly calculated mmr is at around 10%, then you can easily get someone that should be considered a slightly below avg player mixed in with the average crowd at 1500. You also can get put in with the average crowd as a slightly above avg player….

Yasi, pls read my post before. MMR is not taken into account when chosing the 10 players pool for creating a match, the only criteria is the pips range of all players (which must fall inside a maximum range of, apparently, +/- 15 pips).

The MMR is used only to stack the teams: the 5 lowest MMR players in one team, the 5 highest in the other.

And that’s what causing the problem.

You have the second part totally wrong. They dont put the 5 highest and 5 lowest MMR into two teams. The system takes your pip range and finds people in that pip range around your MMR and teams you. It does the same with another group of five players from within their pip range and around their MMR. Then it matches two teams of five players who most closely match in pips and MMR.

Its not taking 10 and splitting into 5 high and 5 low, that would make literally zero sense.

Yasi.9065:

Well, no, I wasnt. But now that you mention it… if you cant see the benefit of dueling someone with the counter build to your teambuild… then, Im sorry… but you really arent as good as you think.

Im not even commenting on that “top 8” ToL3.

And anet probably didnt reset mmr because kickoff period would have taken too long for mmr to set itself to correct value. Its why you need pre-season for that.
Also, tbh, Im kinda glad. All those mmr tankers from last season got punished for it now. Way to go anet !

Oh yea do not get me wrong, I told you I am not suffering from losing streaks now (sapphire I did)

But again, do you not agree the MMR should also be taken into consideration for the opposing team?

The reset I could understand, but you are forgetting that Anet also gave average players average MMR.

With a below average mmr you will – at the moment at least – have a quite high chance of getting matched against a higher mmr team. But thats simply because its a ladder, and you are with your below average mmr too far up compared to your fellow below average mmr players, because you grinded your way out of sapphire into ruby.

Which is why Im re-iterating over and over, to take a break if you are on a constant loosing streak and constantly blown out of matches. Let your fellow below average mmr players catch up to you. Those with a certain grindy mindset will get there. Just some not as fast as others.

StickerHappy.8052:

Yasi.9065:

Well, no, I wasnt. But now that you mention it… if you cant see the benefit of dueling someone with the counter build to your teambuild… then, Im sorry… but you really arent as good as you think.

Im not even commenting on that “top 8” ToL3.

And anet probably didnt reset mmr because kickoff period would have taken too long for mmr to set itself to correct value. Its why you need pre-season for that.
Also, tbh, Im kinda glad. All those mmr tankers from last season got punished for it now. Way to go anet !

Oh yea do not get me wrong, I told you I am not suffering from losing streaks now (sapphire I did)

But again, do you not agree the MMR should also be taken into consideration for the opposing team?

The reset I could understand, but you are forgetting that Anet also gave average players average MMR.

Average mmr to new players was a huge mistake.
Not having pre-season was also one.
And the impact of loosing against a lot higher mmr team should have been lessend by not taking away a pip, but taking away winning streak bonus.
MMR doesnt get downadjusted by much, so that is already implemented.

I hit a wall, too, in sapphire. I got matched with the weirdest people… then again in ruby a few days later… so I just gave up on soloqueue and it has been so much better ever since.

Yasi.9065:

With a below average mmr you will – at the moment at least – have a quite high chance of getting matched against a higher mmr team. But thats simply because its a ladder, and you are with your below average mmr too far up compared to your fellow below average mmr players, because you grinded your way out of sapphire into ruby.

Which is why Im re-iterating over and over, to take a break if you are on a constant loosing streak and constantly blown out of matches. Let your fellow below average mmr players catch up to you. Those with a certain grindy mindset will get there. Just some not as fast as others.

I am not getting blown out matches, If you look at my pic, We were the ones who facerolled the other team.

How does that happen? Clearly the other team were really below average players waiting to be slaughtered. No one akitten, they were just really bad. and this is a full pug vs pug.

That is why, those blowout matches should not happen if MMR faced you with even skilled opponents.

StickerHappy.8052:

My team was in top 8 of ToL 3

There were 4 pools in ToL btw. Being top 8 in one pool doesn’t mean top 8 of ToL, it means you’re top 32 overall.

Yasi.9065:

With a below average mmr you will – at the moment at least – have a quite high chance of getting matched against a higher mmr team. But thats simply because its a ladder, and you are with your below average mmr too far up compared to your fellow below average mmr players, because you grinded your way out of sapphire into ruby.

Which is why Im re-iterating over and over, to take a break if you are on a constant loosing streak and constantly blown out of matches. Let your fellow below average mmr players catch up to you. Those with a certain grindy mindset will get there. Just some not as fast as others.

StickerHappy.8052:

Yasi.9065:

Well, no, I wasnt. But now that you mention it… if you cant see the benefit of dueling someone with the counter build to your teambuild… then, Im sorry… but you really arent as good as you think.

Im not even commenting on that “top 8” ToL3.

And anet probably didnt reset mmr because kickoff period would have taken too long for mmr to set itself to correct value. Its why you need pre-season for that.
Also, tbh, Im kinda glad. All those mmr tankers from last season got punished for it now. Way to go anet !

Oh yea do not get me wrong, I told you I am not suffering from losing streaks now (sapphire I did)

But again, do you not agree the MMR should also be taken into consideration for the opposing team?

The reset I could understand, but you are forgetting that Anet also gave average players average MMR.

Average mmr to new players was a huge mistake.
Not having pre-season was also one.
And the impact of loosing against a lot higher mmr team should have been lessend by not taking away a pip, but taking away winning streak bonus.
MMR doesnt get downadjusted by much, so that is already implemented.

I hit a wall, too, in sapphire. I got matched with the weirdest people… then again in ruby a few days later… so I just gave up on soloqueue and it has been so much better ever since.

Oh wholeheartedly agree.

So inherently the matchmaking is basically flawed, MMR reset in season 1 was a mistake, now again in season 2.

bloodpyrope.8630:

StickerHappy.8052:

My team was in top 8 of ToL 3

There were 4 pools in ToL btw. Being top 8 in one pool doesn’t mean top 8 of ToL, it means you’re top 32 overall.

Top 8 in our division, where Soak and Big world were there. Point is, I had experience playing in an organized team.

I bet you, those 2 teams were very good. and you know that.

Yep, but you can now in season 2 fix this yourself by making a team. That wasnt possible in season 1. Which is an improvement, I guess.

And as I said… those teams you are facerolling there… they grinded to end of sapphire, and shouldnt really even make it to ruby atm. But they do, because of the failsafes until ruby t1.

So they will hit their max at ruby t1 – for now – until better teams have moved on.

If you match them only against “winnable” teams, they will keep on progressing, even though they have reached their maximum for now.

If you match good teams only against good teams, then some of them will stop progressing way before they should.

Just imagine, not even being out of amber and already having ESL finals worthy matches only.

StickerHappy.8052:

bloodpyrope.8630:

StickerHappy.8052:

My team was in top 8 of ToL 3

There were 4 pools in ToL btw. Being top 8 in one pool doesn’t mean top 8 of ToL, it means you’re top 32 overall.

Top 8 in our division, where Soak and Big world were there. Point is, I had experience playing in an organized team.

I bet you, those 2 teams were very good. and you know that.

I’m sure you faced strong teams, but exaggerating your position in the overall tournament kinda makes you look bad.

displacedTitan.6897:

You have the second part totally wrong. They dont put the 5 highest and 5 lowest MMR into two teams. The system takes your pip range and finds people in that pip range around your MMR and teams you. It does the same with another group of five players from within their pip range and around their MMR. Then it matches two teams of five players who most closely match in pips and MMR.

Its not taking 10 and splitting into 5 high and 5 low, that would make literally zero sense.

Are you aware that the final result is always the same both ways? The stacking is always present, or we wouldn’t get that many blowup matches.

Let’s say that at a given time, 10 players apply for queue. They’re all inside a 3 pips range. One of these players will have the lowest MMR, another one the highest. These players will never be put in the same team. Same goes for the second lowest and second highest MMR and so on.

Ofc the pairing could change based on the moment of queue applying, but we don’t know that for sure. For example, if the first two players to apply are the lowest and the highest MMR ones, are we sure that these are put in the same team OR that the MMR waits for more players to apply in order to make teams of “similar skill level”?

With all this evidence so far of total blowouts, I’d bet on the latter behaviour of the MM instead of the former.

Got diamond today! I will try legendary to! I soloed!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o58ypeFFWk&list=RD8qkSe4YM7EY&index=5

That picture says more then anything and tells us exactly what is wrong with this season.

There is 2 problems:

1- Using MMR just for your TEAM. (why doing this if you don’t use for the ennemy team???)
2- Thinking that division is equal of skills.

Solutions:
1- Use MMR for your team and your ennemy team.
2- Remove divisions based on grinds and put division bracket on MMR.

So, now you will get a SKILL based ranked system.

Actually, we have a GRIND based system, where some lucky average player can show they are the BEST. But it’s purely illusions based on GRIND.

More the season advance, more grinders that play badly will goes into high divisions. Legendary include.

The reward need to be grindable, but the rank should be your SKILL level, not your GRIND level.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6028077

Anet states that player rank level influences MMR just a little bit.

The fact that I rarely see legendary champions matched with slayers/avengers proves otherwise.

Meanwhile everyone rank sub-80 is automatically getting paired with first timers. Because why not!

Currently its a working theory. In 2-3 levels I shall test my theory. Hope I finish that before the season ends due to limited play time (work,family, etc).

Ravenmoon.5318:

(…)
Meanwhile everyone rank sub-80 is automatically getting paired with first timers. Because why not!
(…)

Not true… my 2nd account just made it to wolf rank and I rarely get really new players to ranked on my team. To be exact, one in twenty-one matches. And that was about fiveteen matches ago, when my mmr on that account was still very volatile probably due to not having played that account in pvp in at least one year.

Galandil.9641:

Fivedawgs.4267:

How is this match up even possible??? How kittened up is the MM algorithm? ? Like really??

It’s simple, the players are taken considering only their actual pips. So they are all inside the +/-15 pips range (they must be high sapphire tiers and lower ruby tiers).

After that, the fantastic MM just stacks the team: the lowest MMR players on a team, and the higher MMR players on the other.

Its not 15, its +/-7. You should only see people in the division above and below when you are close to moving up, or have just moved up. The only time this is untrue is is someone is partied with someone from a lower division, so say you where a sapphire, and partied with an amber and emerald, they would moat likely face an all sapphire enemy team.

Yasi.9065:

Yep, but you can now in season 2 fix this yourself by making a team. That wasnt possible in season 1. Which is an improvement, I guess.

And as I said… those teams you are facerolling there… they grinded to end of sapphire, and shouldnt really even make it to ruby atm. But they do, because of the failsafes until ruby t1.

So they will hit their max at ruby t1 – for now – until better teams have moved on.

If you match them only against “winnable” teams, they will keep on progressing, even though they have reached their maximum for now.

If you match good teams only against good teams, then some of them will stop progressing way before they should.

Just imagine, not even being out of amber and already having ESL finals worthy matches only.

So we could all agree that these stuff needed to happen:

1.) Have A preaseason
2.) Reset everyones MMR to 0
3.) Do not give new players Average MMR
4.) Take Into consideration total MMR of enemy team too on top of your own team mmr. Ex: 1500 Total MMR for team A vs 1480 Total MMR for team B
5.) Enjoy Leagues

StickerHappy.8052:

Yasi.9065:

Yep, but you can now in season 2 fix this yourself by making a team. That wasnt possible in season 1. Which is an improvement, I guess.

And as I said… those teams you are facerolling there… they grinded to end of sapphire, and shouldnt really even make it to ruby atm. But they do, because of the failsafes until ruby t1.

So they will hit their max at ruby t1 – for now – until better teams have moved on.

If you match them only against “winnable” teams, they will keep on progressing, even though they have reached their maximum for now.

If you match good teams only against good teams, then some of them will stop progressing way before they should.

Just imagine, not even being out of amber and already having ESL finals worthy matches only.

So we could all agree that these stuff needed to happen:

1.) Have A preaseason
2.) Reset everyones MMR to 0
3.) Do not give new players Average MMR
4.) Take Into consideration total MMR of enemy team too on top of your own team mmr. Ex: 1500 Total MMR for team A vs 1480 Total MMR for team B
5.) Enjoy Leagues

1. meh, soft reset + dont turn off ranked
2. no
3. no
4. it already does, but if you mean changing matchmaking to prefer teams close to a teams mmr… well… duh, yeah, but like we need an order of magnitude more players for it to be a reasonable constraint.
5. ???

^ How could agree giving new players average MMR, this is one of the major reasons why you see oblivious people in matches.

3.) Resetting is ideal, now everyone has to fight everyone including top players, naturally they will rekt most players but this is a good thing because they can progress faster. At the same it’s fair for them rather than facing top tier players and then you see baddies progress faster. This is the reason why Leagues is a ladder.

4.) It doesn’t. Matchmaking only takes into account Pip Difference and divisions for opposing teams. What are you talking about?

StickerHappy.8052:

^ How could agree giving new players average MMR, this is one of the major reasons why you see oblivious people in matches.

4.) It doesn’t. Matchmaking only takes into account Pip Difference and divisions for opposing teams. What are you talking about?

i actually have not seen a single clueless teammate this season. im nowhere near pro, but 0 teammates have gone beast first on forest since the season started. bad/tilted/alting/ragey people yes, but not clueless. it may have something to do with having to be rank 20 or whatever before ranked unlocks, and possibly all the mmr boosts that one gets from ranking up, since im 80.

as for 4, he was unclear, at least from my possibly bad reading comprehension. when you win or lose your mmr is adjusted according to who you fought. its not so much matchmaking as match ending, but you dont lose a lot of mmr when you lose a match you are expected to lose, just a pip. avoiding matches with drastically different mmr teams is the area of not doing a hard reset on divisions, not the area of restricting matchmaking and increasing queue times without dealing with the more important issue of keeping the good players out of divisions that are too low for them.

edit: this league is not a ladder, its a grindfest race. as soon as every baddie grinds it out to ruby, the slightly better players will farm them to hit diamond, and the pros will farm the slightly better players to hit legendary, and so on, ever increasing in division, because it is a race, not a ladder.

insanemaniac.2456:

StickerHappy.8052:

^ How could agree giving new players average MMR, this is one of the major reasons why you see oblivious people in matches.

4.) It doesn’t. Matchmaking only takes into account Pip Difference and divisions for opposing teams. What are you talking about?

i actually have not seen a single clueless teammate this season. im nowhere near pro, but 0 teammates have gone beast first on forest since the season started. bad/tilted/alting/ragey people yes, but not clueless. it may have something to do with having to be rank 20 or whatever before ranked unlocks, and possibly all the mmr boosts that one gets from ranking up, since im 80.

as for 4, he was unclear, at least from my possibly bad reading comprehension. when you win or lose your mmr is adjusted according to who you fought. its not so much matchmaking as match ending, but you dont lose a lot of mmr when you lose a match you are expected to lose, just a pip. avoiding matches with drastically different mmr teams is the area of not doing a hard reset on divisions, not the area of restricting matchmaking and increasing queue times without dealing with the more important issue of keeping the good players out of divisions that are too low for them.

edit: this league is not a ladder, its a grindfest race. as soon as every baddie grinds it out to ruby, the slightly better players will farm them to hit diamond, and the pros will farm the slightly better players to hit legendary, and so on, ever increasing in division, because it is a race, not a ladder.

It is a grindfest now, which totally should not be the case. Its a league for crying out loud.

insanemaniac.2456:

StickerHappy.8052:

^ How could agree giving new players average MMR, this is one of the major reasons why you see oblivious people in matches.

4.) It doesn’t. Matchmaking only takes into account Pip Difference and divisions for opposing teams. What are you talking about?

i actually have not seen a single clueless teammate this season. im nowhere near pro, but 0 teammates have gone beast first on forest since the season started. bad/tilted/alting/ragey people yes, but not clueless.

Then you are getting really good teammates. Going beast first is not uncommon. So is going lord first (preferably solo). Dying to beast is uncommon (but yeah, it happens from time to time). Dying to lord unfortunately isn’t (as it is an expected result of early lord rush).

Things like fighting offpoint, multicapping while no enemies around, leaving uncapped point to follow after a nearby enemy, rushing solo into a group of 3-4 enemies are like everyday occurence.

insanemaniac.2456:

StickerHappy.8052:

^ How could agree giving new players average MMR, this is one of the major reasons why you see oblivious people in matches.

4.) It doesn’t. Matchmaking only takes into account Pip Difference and divisions for opposing teams. What are you talking about?

i actually have not seen a single clueless teammate this season. im nowhere near pro, but 0 teammates have gone beast first on forest since the season started. bad/tilted/alting/ragey people yes, but not clueless. it may have something to do with having to be rank 20 or whatever before ranked unlocks, and possibly all the mmr boosts that one gets from ranking up, since im 80.

I’m kittening speechless. You sir are a lucky kitten. Or maybe the algorithm doing it’s work… hum…

Yasi.9065:

Ravenmoon.5318:

(…)
Meanwhile everyone rank sub-80 is automatically getting paired with first timers. Because why not!
(…)

Not true… my 2nd account just made it to wolf rank and I rarely get really new players to ranked on my team. To be exact, one in twenty-one matches. And that was about fiveteen matches ago, when my mmr on that account was still very volatile probably due to not having played that account in pvp in at least one year.

Great job in this thread Yasi. Everyone should be reading your responses including A-net. You give an excellent description on how the matchmaking works and why it should work this way along with ways to improve it and strategies for people that are losing a lot. Kudos to you!

Yasi.9065:

With a below average mmr you will – at the moment at least – have a quite high chance of getting matched against a higher mmr team. But thats simply because its a ladder, and you are with your below average mmr too far up compared to your fellow below average mmr players, because you grinded your way out of sapphire into ruby.

Which is why Im re-iterating over and over, to take a break if you are on a constant loosing streak and constantly blown out of matches. Let your fellow below average mmr players catch up to you. Those with a certain grindy mindset will get there. Just some not as fast as others.

StickerHappy.8052:

Yasi.9065:

Well, no, I wasnt. But now that you mention it… if you cant see the benefit of dueling someone with the counter build to your teambuild… then, Im sorry… but you really arent as good as you think.

Im not even commenting on that “top 8” ToL3.

And anet probably didnt reset mmr because kickoff period would have taken too long for mmr to set itself to correct value. Its why you need pre-season for that.
Also, tbh, Im kinda glad. All those mmr tankers from last season got punished for it now. Way to go anet !

Oh yea do not get me wrong, I told you I am not suffering from losing streaks now (sapphire I did)

But again, do you not agree the MMR should also be taken into consideration for the opposing team?

The reset I could understand, but you are forgetting that Anet also gave average players average MMR.

Average mmr to new players was a huge mistake.
Not having pre-season was also one.
And the impact of loosing against a lot higher mmr team should have been lessend by not taking away a pip, but taking away winning streak bonus.
MMR doesnt get downadjusted by much, so that is already implemented.

I hit a wall, too, in sapphire. I got matched with the weirdest people… then again in ruby a few days later… so I just gave up on soloqueue and it has been so much better ever since.

Getting in duo is how I also went to attenuate the flow of ppl who have clearly reached higher than they should have. Otherwise it can really be hell to try and carry too hard for too long alone.