Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 provides the highest “skill cap” PVP environment of any MMORPG I’ve ever played, even moreso for GW2 tournaments.

Let me frame that statement in a broader context. I’m not saying that GW2 PVP is the only game that requires skill. Too often you hear gamers claim that Game X requires no skills, whereas in every MMORPG I’ve ever played, skill is a differentiating factor between players, particularly of the same class and spec. That said, for a variety of reasons, the extent to which skill matters in determining outcomes varies. There are plenty of games where gear is a huge factor and/or where there are specs that enjoy superior mechanics relative to other specs and classes.

What Makes GW2 PVP So Skill-Based?

1. No holy trinity. Without dedicated healers, all players are responsible for managing their own HP.
2. True tradeoff decisions. I have yet to find a see a spec that can do-it-all, because by design GW2 forces the player to make tradeoff decisions between talents, utilities, and most especially gear components (runes, sigils, and amulet / jewel). By comparison, there are specs and classes in other games that offer good damage, good survivability, and good CC. E.g. in WoW Cataclysm, Death Knights and Frost Mages were strong in all three of those areas, which is why they were the two non-healing classes that were over-represented in my experience at 2k and above in the 2v2 and 3v3 brackets.
3. Downed state management. The downed state is reviled by some players, but I have grown to increasingly appreciate the rich complexity that it adds to the game. Finishing and reviving players one of the most critical factors in sPvP and especially tournament play, because it provides opportunities for players to counter one another as they try to revive or finish targets.
4. Movement and aiming truly matter. The game’s dodge mechanic, which is shared across classes, provides an evade to an opponent’s attack, but it requires recognizing what is worth evading and timing the dodge accordingly. Likewise, many of the most potent attack or CC abilities require that the caster aim and time their ability use, especially with an ability’s specific animation, distance to target, etc.

Key Implications for Individual Players

Simply put, there’s a huge learning curve for any new player, and even for veteran players trying a new class. Stepping into the Mists for the first time on a new class is daunting, because you have to sort out the following:

• Which weapons do I use in each set?
• Which traits (talents) do I take that complement my weapon choices?
• What healing, utility, and elite skills do I slot to complement the capabilities of my spec or fill holes?
• What gear components (sigils for weapons, runes for armor, amulet, and jewel) synergize with the capabilities of my spec?
• How do I manage my profession mechanic (attunement “stance-dancing” for Elementalists, kits for Engineers, etc)?
• Given all that, what’s the order of ability execution for maximum effect, and in which situations?
• How do I play my particular build in solo and group situations?

Given all that and the game mechanics, the mistakes I have most commonly seen when players create a build are:

1. Not understanding how the build holds up against direct damage, sustained incoming conditions, and incoming CC
2. Pairing weapons that have different damage characteristics, e.g. for Warrior using mainhand axe (direct damge) and mainhand sword (condition damage)
3. Not understanding what the build offers in a group context

For point #1, many players are not sufficiently spec’ing to remove multiple conditions, which may be part of the reason why condition-based specs are popular. Point #3 has much broader implications, especially in a tournament setting.

Key Implications for Tournament Players

I hit the post size limitation. Rest of the article here:
http://taugrim.com/2012/09/16/the-skill-cap-of-guild-wars-2-pvp-and-the-implications/

Gentlemen, we are in the presence of royalty.

I guess. I don’t know. He has some youtube channel or something. He’s cool guy I hear.

Edit: good post!
Edit2: Read linked article, STRONGLY RECOMMENDED reading for everyone in this sub forum.

Taugrim,

While I respect your opinion, and completely agree with your post, I must point out a major flaw in structured pvp that you have overlooked.

It makes me forget to go level my character.

Great post Taugrim, agree with all of your points.

Just wish we could get a small amount of exp in Spvp, maybe not for kills but for capping, defending, killing the npcs, etc.

I hope some the people whining about this and that on the forums take the time to read this and take a step back to realize that they haven’t mastered the game, and maybe that thing that keeps killing them is doing so not because it’s overpowered but because they haven’t figured how to deal with it yet.

+1 to you sir

Finally, some positive thinking on the sPvP forum.

Next steps: Ban all QQers who haven’t played 100+ tPvP matches. Ban all players who have only learned one profession. Ban all players who get their builds entirely from the interwebs. Problem solved.

Thumbs up for poster.

Archadian.5024:

Finally, some positive thinking on the sPvP forum.

Next steps: Ban all QQers who haven’t played 100+ tPvP matches. Ban all players who have only learned one profession. Ban all players who get their builds entirely from the interwebs. Problem solved.

Thumbs up for poster.

Why would you compliment the OP on “finally some positive thinking on the sPVP forum” then immediately follow it with the same negative, “pro” vitriol that the pvp forums usually attracts?

Follow the example you seem to respect so much. I have immense respect for Taugrim and his attitude towards PVP gaming.

While I agree with most of the pin points here. A few things that I dislike about the game:

The easiness of some professions vs the others:
and
1 skill gimmicks:

PW/ HS spamming thief and 100 b warrior is more effective that lets say a warrior with 1 handed sword or Thief with cleaver usage of the stealth. Also those 2 skills are on part with lets say elementalist who has to work hard for his kills.

Not only this makes regular ques very unenjoyable it also promotes faceroll over skilled play. When we have 1 button I win professions compete with classes that take 10-15 weapon skills on plain grounds for tourney spots we have a problem.

Pet passive damage:
I can’t tell how many times I would get mesmer to a downed state with 9k hp remaining only to find myself getting killed by phantasms or swapping to phantasms and letting mesmer heal back up to spawn more.

Rocket Dogs, Ranger pets and Phantasms do a lot of damage and its all passive and I have a big problem for Especially mesmers having to absolutely not work for their kills.

Game is far better than any start up MMOs ever existed but it also needs a lot of work.

I wish we could get some insight on these. This game by far has a better experience than WoW kitteniclysm and could be for MOP as well. Although PvP infrastructure needs a huge change Caping nodes is fun but it should not be the only viable types of Battle Grounds.

I am still waiting on Arenas, different battle grounds choices and being able to level through PvP so I would not be extra kittened in WvW.

I think it’s funny that some people think that phantasm damage is somehow different, or less “skilled” than any other damage in the game. Heartseeker, pistol whip, hundo blades? Those take “skill” because they lack the phantasm animation? Every class has a high damage skill, get over the “phantasm does all the work” mentality. This is a simple game, don’t hurt your brains.

milo.6942:

Gentlemen, we are in the presence of royalty.

I guess. I don’t know. He has some youtube channel or something. He’s cool guy I hear.

Edit: good post!
Edit2: Read linked article, STRONGLY RECOMMENDED reading for everyone in this sub forum.

milo’s progression in that post was pretty entertaining

Hammerheart.1426:

Taugrim,

While I respect your opinion, and completely agree with your post, I must point out a major flaw in structured pvp that you have overlooked.

It makes me forget to go level my character.

Me too :|

Many of my guildees are level 80. My Mesmer is 8 and Warrior is 11.

AN did too good a job with sPvP!

Zardon.8539:

Great post Taugrim, agree with all of your points.

Just wish we could get a small amount of exp in Spvp, maybe not for kills but for capping, defending, killing the npcs, etc.

It was a curious design decision to not have sPvP provide XP, whereas WvW does.

Excellent article, thank you good Sir.

Good post, Taugrim. It upsets me when I see people complaining that this game requires no skill. I feel this game requires more thinking and awareness than any game I have ever played, and I still have a lot of learning to do. I dont think you even mentioned the possible synergies that can be created between teammates with the clever use of combo fields and finishers.

This game is chess.

Ahh I didnt realize taugrim was playing GW2 I read over his guide and videos during my stay in Rift. Thought I had to leave because I didnt enjoy Rifts pvp system at all after reaching near max rank.

Its always a breathe of fresh air seeing a familiar pvpers name on forums, in side the sea of complains and qualms.

good post
at least some ppl understood the t/spvp

Nice. I agree with just about everything you said. As a matter of fact, I had a lot of these same thoughts myself over the past week or so but had none of the inclination to write it all up into such a detailed post.

One of my main concerns with the current state of tournament play is that a lot of people took the idea that seems to pervade the community that “every spec is viable,” and choose to play what they want instead of a build that would synergize with their team comp and work effectively to do more than just pure damage. Chief example: Rangers and Thieves. Currently, they can offer decent utility and damage with certain specs, but most opt for pure damage instead of a more viable solution that benefits the whole. Condition rangers with a condition-spread-tank Necromancer are a perfect example of what I mean. They’re far more effective when together than alone, but add very little to the team comp as a whole unless the team is running a very specific composition.

While I understand that you can’t expect the average player to have an understanding of teamwork and class synergy, I do find it worrisome that so many of the players seem to completely ignore that it exists.

Couldn’t agree more with what you’ve posted here. Should be a sticky.

I completely agree with you Taugrim, i’ve been enjoying PvP in guild wars2 much more than any other game. There is still much to be learned, and never once have i cried out in frustration over High damage moves. Certain skills are powerful but there are ways to deal with them.

I agree with you Taugrim!

Excellent post.

HS spam thieves are not even effective anymore. I laugh at the ones who open with it and keep trying to spam it. Easy kills.

Good points, hope to see more about tPvP soon!

PW/ HS spamming thief and 100 b warrior is more effective that lets say a warrior with 1 handed sword or Thief with cleaver usage of the stealth.

Not in tourneys and high-ranked matches. When all you do is spam 1 ability, you open yourself to predictability. Your opponents always know what you’re going to do, so it’s easy for them to counter.