The Synopsis of Burning

The Synopsis of Burning

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Posted by: lordhelmos.7623

lordhelmos.7623

For specifics, burning is only very strong when applied in high stacks. The classes that benefited the most from the burning change were classes that already had strong options, namely the Guardian and Elementalist.

While there is an argument that the burning change was done to make conditions viable in PvE, this only effected classes that already had good PvE options. The guardian was already the centerpiece of every high tier group with aegis and the highest reflect uptime of any class. The Elementalist was already the top tier class in pve.

All of the other classes with the exception of the sinister trapper ranger (while decent, still gets outdamaged by just about every metazerk build), have very limited access to high burn stacks. As a result, they really have not changed in effectiveness due to burning changes. Some actually became worse due to the power gap between burn stackers and non-stackers (Dhuumfire necro, for example).

In PvP the effect was even worse, with classes that had already strong options growing insanely strong with access to high burn stacks.

There are also only a few skills that create serious problems with burning. For the guardian it is mainly passive burning procs that come from Virtue > JI burns > Permeating Wrath, which allows a symbol, whirling wrath, or instant-hit purge conditions to hit a balled group and wipe them in seconds with over 10+ stacks to the group. I would not consider torch skills OP due to how slow the projectile is and how hard it is to effectively land.

For the ele, its ring of fire, which gave the strongest build in the game (D/D ele) the strongest fire application skill in the game. I recall a strawman red post that game out stating “well don’t move in and out of the circle.” Which is fairly weak logic when you consider that one of the game modes requires you to stand in a little white circle the same size as the RoF against a class with multiple cc’s (including a launch) very high area damage, and mobility. Changes to RoF basically gave ele 1vteam dominion over capture points in a single area control skill and can restrict the mobility options of an entire team down to nothing (don’t touch the edge of the circle or die, oh he used burning speed, now you die if you touch the line intersecting the circle too.).

When you consider the above, the problems that make burning overpowered are really few. There are a single skill chain from the guardian end and ONE ele skill. The obvious solution to balancing burning is to limit the amount of effective stacks that a class can push out individually to a much lower level. Skills that deal high burning stacks must be hard to land.

Guardian burn chains and RoF are only broken because they have a high burning uptime reward for almost zero effort. Guardian chains are all passive procs, RoF controls a whole zone with one button. Both are fire and forget and wipe whole teams.

This means that only certain aspects of the guardian chain and RoF need to be nerfed. The only other high burning applicant comes from the engineer with incendiary ammo and blow torch, which follows with the guardian offhand torch of being hard to hit with. I would consider this fine.

As many people have already deducted, burning on its own is fine, it is only a handful of ease of use skills that reward extremely high burns that are OP. Some classes even needs tweaks to burning to make them more effective (e.g. Dhuumfire necro can use a buff, also no one complained about the Berzerker burn warrior elite spec during the open beta weekend).

Most of these problems can be solved with a simple numbers tweak or limit on the burns these current skills can apply. These changes would do little to impact PvE as well. Ele will still be top tier and people don’t bring guardians into speed runs for burns.

(edited by lordhelmos.7623)

The Synopsis of Burning

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

Actually, Burn Guardiams turned from passive play to active play. The playstyles between prepatch and current are like night an day, it’s really unreal.

Burns on Ele have been the center point of “Burns are OP” rants. For every one burn guard complaint, there are 3 Ele Burn complaints.

To reiterate, Burn Guardians is a very active playstyle, on par with Power Guardian builds with the exception that Burn Guardians having more combos to follow up on.

  • Whirling Wrath in Purging Flames
  • Leap in Purging Flames
  • Not engaging immediately for fear of condi cleanses
  • Should I save PF for team or self condi cleanses?
  • Choosing proper targets to burst, such as Engi, Thief, Mesmer, and hoping a Ranger’s pet is near them /evilaugh
  • Shout cleansing Guardian, hope he kneels down that downed ally so I can cleave them both. I’ll save my GS#2.
  • kitten a signet necro!?

Tell me, exactly where is the smart Ele play rotations?

  • Pulling off burning speed and spaming RoF
  • Landing blast finishers in fire fields
  • Don’t attune back in Water unless you need heals, or condi clease
  • Spam dodge rolls but preferably in fire for burms
  • Blink!
  • Fiery Greatsword!
  • I’ll be back in a minute when my health regens. Oh wait, i’m on the otherside of map i’ll decap this node.

I’m not saying the class is easy, it’s just clock work with little to no counterplay when fighting the Ele. The definition of low risk high reward.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

(edited by Saiyan.1704)

The Synopsis of Burning

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Posted by: DresdenAllblack.1249

DresdenAllblack.1249

Low risk high reward is how 98% of the game’s population wants to roll.

Angelina is free game again.
Crystal Desert

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Posted by: Patchi.9061

Patchi.9061

In my opinion, Ele’s problem is not only its damage but its viability in every possible scenario. Even after the limit to burning it is still incredibly strong because it has very high mobility and disengage power, very high sustain and condi clear, and most and formost a very reliable way to ressurect an ele through mistform stealth. They are jack of all trades and have only been buffed after the big patch while the other 2 (cele engi and shout warrior) were balanced off the meta.
While I completley agree that fixing the burning stacks may provide other viable options to the team such as bunker guard and soldier engi I still believe that ele would still be a power pick over them simply because they have the flexibility to be viable in every possible scenario.
As for burn guard, I agree with FlaseLights as it has become more active than passive but the OP means that burn guard is actually getting a lot of rewards from such efforts that may seem overpowered in a sense, in which I completely agree in comparison to the other meta classes.

The Synopsis of Burning

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Posted by: Supreme.3164

Supreme.3164

Actually, Burn Guardiams turned from passive play to active play. The playstyles between prepatch and current are like night an day, it’s really unreal.

Burns on Ele have been the center point of “Burns are OP” rants. For every one burn guard complaint, there are 3 Ele Burn complaints.

To reiterate, Burn Guardians is a very active playstyle, on par with Power Guardian builds with the exception that Burn Guardians having more combos to follow up on.

  • Whirling Wrath in Purging Flames
  • Leap in Purging Flames
  • Not engaging immediately for fear of condi cleanses
  • Should I save PF for team or self condi cleanses?
  • Choosing proper targets to burst, such as Engi, Thief, Mesmer, and hoping a Ranger’s pet is near them /evilaugh
  • Shout cleansing Guardian, hope he kneels down that downed ally so I can cleave them both. I’ll save my GS#2.
  • kitten a signet necro!?

Tell me, exactly where is the smart Ele play rotations?

  • Pulling off burning speed and spaming RoF
  • Landing blast finishers in fire fields
  • Don’t attune back in Water unless you need heals, or condi clease
  • Spam dodge rolls but preferably in fire for burms
  • Blink!
  • Fiery Greatsword!
  • I’ll be back in a minute when my health regens. Oh wait, i’m on the otherside of map i’ll decap this node.

I’m not saying the class is easy, it’s just clock work with little to no counterplay when fighting the Ele. The definition of low risk high reward.

And where is the guardian “smart play” when facing anything on ele that’s not d/d?
To faceroll all other ele builds on your burn guardian is fine, it’s balanced isn’kitten

There are not a plethora of playstyles out there you either have stealth and can burst…or you have sustain and win through attrition, GW2 is a casual game, very easy to play and execute so stop talking about skill…it’s pointless

Your guardian is very easy to use so stop the fairytale : meditation, blocks, healing, boon upkeep…90% of it is instant cast, drop your skill talk already

It doesn’t take a degree to use any class in this game, anybody can make a burn guardian and do good after 1 hour, anybody can run a double elixir S engi + gearshield, anybody can run a PU shatter mesmer, anybody can run a d/p thief etc etc.

Stop already with all the ridiculous talk about “timing”, everybody and his dog needs to TIME their skills to get the desired effect, do you really believe that anybody with a couple of brain cells thinks that an ele press button randomly, without even looking at the screen and win?

Timing…pfff…you can macro 90% of current meta PvP builds in this game, a game made for 12+ kids…people spit vitriol about skill…so ridiculous

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Posted by: abc.5790

abc.5790

Low risk high reward is how 98% of the game’s population wants to roll.

Your statement is correct if referring to d/d elementalist on vampire runes. Your statement is incorrect when it comes to burn guardians. Unlike elementalists, they lack reliable sustainability and does not produce significant physical damage output.

[Star] In My Prono
EU Scrub

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Posted by: kdaddy.5431

kdaddy.5431

burn guardians and d/d arent the same. Burn guardians lose 1 vs 1 all the time vs any class that can cleanse or use sigil of generosity. Burns arent the problem its just that 1 class with that 1 weapon set that no one beat except cele necro but even then the ele can easily run away to heal.

Burns arent the problem so changing how burns works is silly, how about just allowing guardians to stack 7-10 if they they want to play burst burns. Just let d/d take a small hit in condi stacks and things will be fine.

The Synopsis of Burning

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Posted by: ragnarokda.1805

ragnarokda.1805

Actually, Burn Guardiams turned from passive play to active play. The playstyles between prepatch and current are like night an day, it’s really unreal.

Burns on Ele have been the center point of “Burns are OP” rants. For every one burn guard complaint, there are 3 Ele Burn complaints.

To reiterate, Burn Guardians is a very active playstyle, on par with Power Guardian builds with the exception that Burn Guardians having more combos to follow up on.

  • Whirling Wrath in Purging Flames
  • Leap in Purging Flames
  • Not engaging immediately for fear of condi cleanses
  • Should I save PF for team or self condi cleanses?
  • Choosing proper targets to burst, such as Engi, Thief, Mesmer, and hoping a Ranger’s pet is near them /evilaugh
  • Shout cleansing Guardian, hope he kneels down that downed ally so I can cleave them both. I’ll save my GS#2.
  • kitten a signet necro!?

Tell me, exactly where is the smart Ele play rotations?

  • Pulling off burning speed and spaming RoF
  • Landing blast finishers in fire fields
  • Don’t attune back in Water unless you need heals, or condi clease
  • Spam dodge rolls but preferably in fire for burms
  • Blink!
  • Fiery Greatsword!
  • I’ll be back in a minute when my health regens. Oh wait, i’m on the otherside of map i’ll decap this node.

I’m not saying the class is easy, it’s just clock work with little to no counterplay when fighting the Ele. The definition of low risk high reward.

And where is the guardian “smart play” when facing anything on ele that’s not d/d?
To faceroll all other ele builds on your burn guardian is fine, it’s balanced isn’kitten

There are not a plethora of playstyles out there you either have stealth and can burst…or you have sustain and win through attrition, GW2 is a casual game, very easy to play and execute so stop talking about skill…it’s pointless

Your guardian is very easy to use so stop the fairytale : meditation, blocks, healing, boon upkeep…90% of it is instant cast, drop your skill talk already

It doesn’t take a degree to use any class in this game, anybody can make a burn guardian and do good after 1 hour, anybody can run a double elixir S engi + gearshield, anybody can run a PU shatter mesmer, anybody can run a d/p thief etc etc.

Stop already with all the ridiculous talk about “timing”, everybody and his dog needs to TIME their skills to get the desired effect, do you really believe that anybody with a couple of brain cells thinks that an ele press button randomly, without even looking at the screen and win?

Timing…pfff…you can macro 90% of current meta PvP builds in this game, a game made for 12+ kids…people spit vitriol about skill…so ridiculous

Super smash bro pros, retro game speed runners and people who play fighting games for money. Now THOSE are some skilled players. This game and many other like it are about situational awareness and an understanding of your personal and class limitations. Once you are familiar with those facets of the game the rest is all about how much effort you feel like putting forth in that moment.

People do like to pretend that that is in fact exactly how ele win fights lol.