Guild Wars 2

Many thieves have told me to play a thief to see their state of balance and I have done just that. I’ve also seen allot of support from players as they recognized my name and have given me feedback in the matches I’ve run.

First Off:

I will not address dancing dagger or cluster bomb exploit as it is not unique to this class any bouncing target ability is multiplying the dmg(like bladetrail for warriors). It is known by dev’s and reported to be fixed next patch.

I will also not address stealth rendering or culling as it also known by Dev’s as a bug and will be fixed(or so was stated) next patch.

Balance:

Dual Dagger’s is the biggest problem with Thieves. The design of this spec is quite eloquent and I find it hard to be a flaw when each ability seems to be designed intricately to work in conjunction with another.

Steal with Mug trait does alot of dmg far more than any 5pts spec I’ve seen in any other class, easily dealing 3 to 6k crits even against high to mid toughness targets. It also can apply stealth and poison to a target and regain initiative with traits.

Cloak and Dagger easily is set as 1200( that’s 1 third of an entire H.blades for a single click ability around 2-4k crits) dmg ability in spvp and tpvp modes and much higher in wvw, delivering an extreme dmg ability that also works defensively for the thief and set’s up for a backstab.

Backstab this single attack can deal more damage than any other class in the game anywhere from 6-12k dmg from a single strike and a clever thief can bump it up with might stacking and signet use.

Heartseeker the worst of all thief abilities in abuse, not only does it negate most forms of intelligent defense, the nature of it teleporting the thief onto it’s target compounded with it’s extremely high dmg(with traits this ability can do spammable 4-6k crits with might or signet use).

These four abilities used in conjunction with each other equal an insta-kill on just about any target regardless of toughness as pressing heartseeker a few more times allows you to down even the toughest bunker , especially when you consider that it does more dmg on low health player, and retaliation is it’s only worthwhile counter. It would be hard for me to believe this was an accidental oversight, when it would take allot of logical designing to make these abilities work so effectively with each other. Especially when a few traits placed in different spots would totally negate this builds effectiveness.

Worst of all it takes little to no skill/learning curve to run this build effectively and gain max glory per match. As a matter of fact almost all of the thieves running this build were easily getting #1 match after match including myself on the very first attempt. Which has given an extreme unfair glory rate gain for players with little to no pvp skill. A player can simply wait in shadow refuge or press one of the many stealth abilities to pick off hurt targets and gain 15 glory per kill.

While there are a few other thief builds that are effective, these take more than a moderate amount of skill to succeed at and are well balanced compared to other classes. And almost all imbalances in these builds will be addressed when stealth culling is fixed.

And this is the Proof of it’s effectiveness

Just the MUG/Cloak and Dagger combo is broken

With MUG being slightly over powered

20% of the backstab damage comes from the executioner trait. MUG/C&D combo in its current form can get most people down to 50%

Execution and MUG needs toning own and the combo broken. The backstab can remain as is

-Thief

Webley.1295:

Just the MUG/Cloak and Dagger combo is broken

With MUG being slightly over powered

20% of the backstab damage comes from the executioner trait. MUG/C&D combo in its current form can get most people down to 50%

Execution and MUG needs toning own and the combo broken. The backstab can remain as is

-Thief

I cannot agree with you that any ability should reward a player for using such little skill or planning. I believe pvp should take skill.

As I stated in my post Heartseeker and Backstab are the two biggest problems so I find it odd that those would be the two your ok with.

What you proposed wouldn’t correct the problem in the slighest even if you removed executioner trait the baskstab still would have dealt 9k dmg. And cut the mug in half and it’s still 3k dmg dealing 12k dmg. It’s like shaving 20% off a nuclear bomb and hitting a single man with it, he’s still dead as a doornail.

I don’t think anyone who doesn’t play a thief dual dagger spec would agree with you either, but i understand your motivation in saying so.

So my (guardian/ranger/ele) second skill crits for 5-9k and has no cool down… that sounds fair right?

Steal and backstab are fine since they are not 1 hit ko skills. Steal has a long cd and backstab is a hard to land hit (relies on other skills).

The biggest problem is that heartseeker is spammable.

You’re obviously one of those class glory huggers who want every other class to be destroyed to the ground because you can’t compete in sPvP.

And what exploit is there? That “exploit” is part of our attack… Lmfao

Ah well, i thought it was ok, since you took WvW as example too in your post. But you dont think the guy in the video has a point? a rightly build Warrior doesnt have to die to anyone, certainly not a Thief.

@Dervy

I end every match with my thief in the Number 1 slot using dual pistols and sword/dagger. I cannot burst anyone down with this spec in a few seconds it’s always a long drawn out fight that requires me to use all my abilties and make use of blindness over and over to save myself.

I don’t agree with killing a player before they can react, I don’t see how this is necessary mechanic to the thief class, or how balancing it would break a class I come in Number 1 with specs no one is complaining about.

I just don’t want any player with zero to lil pvp skill being rewarded for mashing 4 buttons there is virtually no counter for in spvp besides guardian bunker ret.

Perhaps i want to afford other classes the chance to compete in spvp and not just thieves.

Yup, I remember not understanding why people cried about Thiefs until I started running into ones that did this to my at the time 2000 toughness well bunker necro….

All happened in a few seconds and use I used stun break no hope.

Fellknight.4820:

Webley.1295:

Just the MUG/Cloak and Dagger combo is broken

With MUG being slightly over powered

20% of the backstab damage comes from the executioner trait. MUG/C&D combo in its current form can get most people down to 50%

Execution and MUG needs toning own and the combo broken. The backstab can remain as is

-Thief

I cannot agree with you that any ability should reward a player for using such little skill or planning. I believe pvp should take skill.

As I stated in my post Heartseeker and Backstab are the two biggest problems so I find it odd that those would be the two your ok with.

What you proposed wouldn’t correct the problem in the slighest even if you removed executioner trait the baskstab still would have dealt 9k dmg. And cut the mug in half and it’s still 3k dmg dealing 12k dmg. It’s like shaving 20% off a nuclear bomb and hitting a single man with it, he’s still dead as a doornail.

I don’t think anyone who doesn’t play a thief dual dagger spec would agree with you either, but i understand your motivation in saying so.

backstab without stacking vun/signet/might in the current combo does closer to 6k without executioner on a heavy. 4k on a proper bunker guardian

Your numbers are way off to the ones I have. But niether off us have a video or a maths algorithm to back it up

All I have is 1 months of backstab thief experiance every day for about 2 hours a day

If you pop 2 signets and with the traits that stack might, you get 10might, add 3% from CnD vunerability and have over 6init you can hit a heavy golem for just over 9k on the backstab on avg.

You get 10% etxra damage for applying the poison on mug, 10% damage for having over 6init and 15% from assassins signet and 20% from executioner and 3% from hitting with cloak and dagger and around 10 might. Another 10% from Runes of Scholar for having over 90%hp. Thats how you stack up a backstab. If you break the combo these things will not stack long enough to apply to the backstab and it will do less damage

backstab requires stealth and positioning

the CnD/Steal/MUG combo requires no positioning, gives stealth, gives init, and gives 900range teleport, does more damage than the backstab itself if they both crit and all without executioner also applying a 3% vunerability. usually this takes a player down below 50% activating executioner so its 20% more effective and all the above damage stacks i mentioned above. Incomes the finishing backstab.

This combo is whats broken

but hey, haters gonna say i dont know anything until its pityful and not worth using

im trying to tell people it needs a nerf, but not as much people think as they dont really know the build well enough to make a well informed post

the build i refer to is 25/30/0/0/15 (This build runs at around 10-16.5k HP depending if you took valkrye or beserker gear or half half)

the amount of stacking which happens in the combo is OP.

take away all the stacking and just add CnD and it does around 6k, requires stealth and requires to be behind the target. Many if not all professions all have a skill that does 6kon a crit, doesnt require stealth, and doesnt requires to be behind the target

this is why BS is fine but the stacking % + combo + executioner is OP as thats what takes place in under 2 secs and gets you to under 50% hp before youve even been hit with a backstab

Good post. I tried a glass canon thief too just for fun, and although I didn’t survive much in sPvP, it felt like it was way too easy to down any player I selected. And don’t even think for a second that I mastered that insane OP opening combo, I messed it up most of the time but could still down my target just with landing basilisk, then heartseeker and auto attack. Thief playstyle didn’t feel rewarding to me because you don’t feel you need to get better to kill other people, it’s way too easy from the first time you try it. The only thing I could see is that it takes skill to get good at surviving in the sPvP zerg environment.

OP is just talking about backstab in it’s most extreme form. But the ability is…and should remain useful for all builds. If the extreme glass-cannon damage is the problem, then fix that without nerfing it for all other builds.

Mug is what could do with a nerf, that’s all. Everything else is a side effect of offensive stats scaling too well in this game.

Thief should be reworked from scratch. The whole class is broken, because it’s based on a stupid broken dynamic called stealth, that should’ve never even crossed a good a designer’s mind to get it implemented into any kind of serious competitive PvP.

Anet weren’t as clueless while making GW1. I just wish they got those old people back working on this spvp, because obviously some clueless people are in charge of it now…

builds with insta kills must no exist in pvp games, but guild war 2 have it and its a worster thing in game – 1 button stealther
because of that and because of unconcern from dev team, lots of friends leaving game
if u, guys, want change this situation, go outside this forum and talk about that problem on big game forums, youtube video, comment on game review articles, etc etc
i dont know other ways to be heard – so many people, since start the game, asking here to fix that with no results
this is realy sad

I have played only 150 games (mostly in tournaments) as Thief and to me the main issue is
that you can precast CaD then Steal followed by bacstab. If you do it righ you land all these 3 skills withing 1/4 of second. Followed by hearseeker and if you use stunning venom you have simple work. If you can´t do it right.. then you can use simply macro keyboard and program it that way… (i believe i started to see too many fast spikes like this)

The role and combination with high mobility bursty class is making thieves pretty strong at the moment. In fact i mostly only run in between points.. outnumbering, bursting and then going back or to different point. You can do that pretty fast and effective.

But to me thats also the role Thieves should do.. so from my point of view.. i would try to balance it like this:

1) fix the known rendering issue
2) Steal have own cast time and therefore should not be precasted
3) balance iniciative cost. That way we should get rid of caltrops spam, dancing dagger spam, cluster bomb spam.

in general the dmg is fine as long as thieves are not able to spam or use 3 same abilities in a row (like dancing daggers for example)

you all complain about thief because it the easier to see. No one complain about shatter mesmer with frenzy…..because till now this build it still not discovered.Mesmer can " burst " (Aoe) more than a thief.Instead to find a counter all ppl come here and cry a river because they got pwned. what a bunch of crybaby. Or wanna talk about warrior? warrior can do same kitten of sin lockdown -> burst . Steal Like every other skill it subjeted to all other mitigation skill….dodge…invisibility… etc. “it not 100% hit”.
A part this how do you think this game will evolve? when a new strong build is discovered all ppl use that…etcetc i mean…. you cannot talk about “balance” because every day news build are discovered and a class get screwed.

strifer.7986:

you all complain about thief because it the easier to see. No one complain about shatter mesmer with frenzy…..because till now this build it still not discovered.Mesmer can " burst " more than a thief.Instead to find a counter all ppl come here and cry a river because they got pwned. what a bunch of crybaby. Or wanna talk about warrior? warrior can do same kitten of sin lockdown -> burst . Steal Like every other skill it subjeted to all other mitigation skill….dodge…invisibility… etc. “it not 100% hit”.
A part this how do you think this game will evolve? when a new strong build is discovered all ppl use that…etcetc i mean…. you cannot talk about “balance” because every day news build are discovered and a class get screwed.

there are differencess between Thief / mesmer / warrior burst. Yes.. they all can burst as Theif (well, not that much to be honest thief can go much higher), but the main difference is

mesmer = do not have the thief mobility from shortbow. still can use portal but limited by 60 sec CD. Also its pretty much visible to when he is going to shatter you

Warrior is also nicely visible + he can´t land his combo in 1/4 of second. Giving you plenty of time to react and use your stunbreaker. If you dont use it on time, then of course you dead..

Thieves have NO access to stability in their kit while performing any COMBOS. They are also squishy and NOT immune to damage while in stealth.

Maybe the numbers need toning, but their IS counterplay to thieves available (Moreso when rendering is fixed obviously)

strifer.7986:

you all complain about thief because it the easier to see. No one complain about shatter mesmer with frenzy…..because till now this build it still not discovered.Mesmer can " burst " (Aoe) more than a thief.Instead to find a counter all ppl come here and cry a river because they got pwned. what a bunch of crybaby. Or wanna talk about warrior? warrior can do same kitten of sin lockdown -> burst . Steal Like every other skill it subjeted to all other mitigation skill….dodge…invisibility… etc. “it not 100% hit”.
A part this how do you think this game will evolve? when a new strong build is discovered all ppl use that…etcetc i mean…. you cannot talk about “balance” because every day news build are discovered and a class get screwed.

I have a level 80 Shatter build Mesmer, and it’s definitely on the OP side of things, but it is not in any way comparable to a thief.

1. We don’t have anywhere near the sustained damage of a thief.
2. We can’t stealth nearly as much as a thief without sacrificing valuable slot skills (and even then stealth isn’t nearly as useful for us). This makes us far less survivable.
3. Shatter builds have sup-par damage aside from the shatter. If you fail somehow, gg.
4. Shatters can easily be stopped. Roll into the clone when it starts to run at you, for example, or use AoE’s.
5. We have no where near as much mobility as thieves.

A shatter build is OP to an extent (similar to a Warrior, a power/wells Necro, a Bunker ele, a grenade Engineer), there’s tons of “op” builds in this game. But there’s one class with a few builds more OP than the rest of them… One class to rule them all!

Arius.7031:

strifer.7986:

you all complain about thief because it the easier to see. No one complain about shatter mesmer with frenzy…..because till now this build it still not discovered.Mesmer can " burst " (Aoe) more than a thief.Instead to find a counter all ppl come here and cry a river because they got pwned. what a bunch of crybaby. Or wanna talk about warrior? warrior can do same kitten of sin lockdown -> burst . Steal Like every other skill it subjeted to all other mitigation skill….dodge…invisibility… etc. “it not 100% hit”.
A part this how do you think this game will evolve? when a new strong build is discovered all ppl use that…etcetc i mean…. you cannot talk about “balance” because every day news build are discovered and a class get screwed.

I have a level 80 Shatter build Mesmer, and it’s definitely on the OP side of things, but it is not in any way comparable to a thief.

1. We don’t have anywhere near the sustained damage of a thief.
2. We can’t stealth nearly as much as a thief without sacrificing valuable slot skills (and even then stealth isn’t nearly as useful for us). This makes us far less survivable.
3. Shatter builds have sup-par damage aside from the shatter. If you fail somehow, gg.
4. Shatters can easily be stopped. Roll into the clone when it starts to run at you, for example, or use AoE’s.
5. We have no where near as much mobility as thieves.

A shatter build is OP to an extent (similar to a Warrior, a power/wells Necro, a Bunker ele, a grenade Engineer), there’s tons of “op” builds in this game. But there’s one class with a few builds more OP than the rest of them… One class to rule them all!

Mesmers have Portal, probably the best utility skill in the game when it works
Mesmers have awesome Elites aside from Mass Invis
Your burst is reapeatable every 12-15 seconds and is an AoE. Thieves can do it once every 45 seconds.
Your base HP is about 4k more than Thieves.
Honestly, the list could go on but each class has pros and cons to everything.
The only OP build a Thief has is the Backstab spec. That’s it.

Comparing a thief to a mesmer is a good way to show that its abilties are totally balanced.

Wait…who said “sarcasm”?

Fellknight.4820:

Backstab this single attack can deal more damage than any other class in the game anywhere from 6-12k dmg from a single strike and a clever thief can bump it up with might stacking and signet use.

really…? Let’s talk about HB AOE damage…….and just saying…BS only deals good damage if it strikes on back or sides…clearly the most op of them all, please…

actually the best single-target skill is moa…and i’m not saying to nerf it, but if you look into other classes you can find some really awesome skills, much more better than BS

Anet said they will be looking at burst for the next patch guys. Lets see how it goes before posting the same thread we’ve seen so many times already.

Seriously…HB aoe damage? That’s what you came up with to rival backstab? lol.

Primo.4385:

Seriously…HB aoe damage? That’s what you came up with to rival backstab? lol.

He was replying to a person who said backstab did the most damage of any ability in the game.

Hundred blades does more damage than backstab.

I don’t see what’s so wrong with his statement?

Yes, if you manage to find somebody willing to stand still and facetank a full hundred blades.

Isn’t the “insta-kill” Thief a counter to a Bunker spec’d player? I mean once the burst is done the Thief pretty much dies while possibly not even killing the bunker spec…

IMO the problem isn’t these alleged “OP” builds it’s players not being able to deal with the fact they die. Everyone gets killed, get over yourself.

Dee Jay.2460:

OP is just talking about backstab in it’s most extreme form. But the ability is…and should remain useful for all builds. If the extreme glass-cannon damage is the problem, then fix that without nerfing it for all other builds.

Mug is what could do with a nerf, that’s all. Everything else is a side effect of offensive stats scaling too well in this game.

Mug is also only an issue on extreme GC builds as well. On my build it does 1-1.5k dmg. Hardly game breaking.

Primo.4385:

Yes, if you manage to find somebody willing to stand still and facetank a full hundred blades.

…or somebody who wants to stand and take a full steal c&d and BS burst aswell as hb or other glass bursts…i can counter them just like lots and lots of ppl out there, if you can’t it’s your problem not ours

Bohab.7825:

Isn’t the “insta-kill” Thief a counter to a Bunker spec’d player? I mean once the burst is done the Thief pretty much dies while possibly not even killing the bunker spec…

IMO the problem isn’t these alleged “OP” builds it’s players not being able to deal with the fact they die. Everyone gets killed, get over yourself.

no they can’t…crying on forums is much more easy that learn how to counter someone

Archaon.6245:

Primo.4385:

Yes, if you manage to find somebody willing to stand still and facetank a full hundred blades.

…or somebody who wants to stand and take a full steal c&d and BS burst aswell as hb or other glass bursts…i can counter them just like lots and lots of ppl out there, if you can’t it’s your problem not ours

Steal + CnD + Backstab = less than 1 second without quickness (1/2s CnD + 1/4s backstab + 0s Steal)
Hundred Blades = at least 1 3/4s seconds with quickness

So, there is quite a difference between the two things.

Archaon.6245:

Bohab.7825:

Isn’t the “insta-kill” Thief a counter to a Bunker spec’d player? I mean once the burst is done the Thief pretty much dies while possibly not even killing the bunker spec…

IMO the problem isn’t these alleged “OP” builds it’s players not being able to deal with the fact they die. Everyone gets killed, get over yourself.

no they can’t…crying on forums is much more easy that learn how to counter someone

Probably it isn’t a matter of countering?
There are people here, also myself, who found their skill incredibly improved when they rerolled a thief. That’s the point.
Is that thieves have the innate ability to 10x your skill level or are them overpowered?

sorrow.2364:

Archaon.6245:

Primo.4385:

Yes, if you manage to find somebody willing to stand still and facetank a full hundred blades.

…or somebody who wants to stand and take a full steal c&d and BS burst aswell as hb or other glass bursts…i can counter them just like lots and lots of ppl out there, if you can’t it’s your problem not ours

Steal + CnD + Backstab = less than 1 second without quickness (1/2s CnD + 1/4s backstab + 0s Steal)
Hundred Blades = at least 1 3/4s seconds with quickness

So, there is quite a difference between the two things.

noone uses haste with BS combo…if he does he can’t reach very high damage cause you need all your utilities for might stacking….so OR 1.5 sec burst (But only able to kill, maybe, another glass cannon) OR very high dmg burst without haste, you can’t go with both…..other questions? And…are you talking about frenzy HB? Because with war you can go with both high dmg and haste…so what’s your point?

Archaon.6245:

no they can’t…crying on forums is much more easy that learn how to counter someone

Any class that can instant-kill in three seconds is broken and makes the game unfun, regardless if some builds can happen to have any counters, and regardless if that profession dies in three seconds too.

Getting killed in three seconds, or surviving, countering, and killing in three seconds, is not fun. It’s a pure rock-paper-scissors game.

Archaon.6245:

noone uses haste with BS combo…if he does he can’t reach very high damage cause you need all your utilities for might stacking….so OR 1.5 sec burst (But only able to kill, maybe, another glass cannon) OR very high dmg burst without haste you can’t go with both…..other questions? And…are you talking about frenzy HB? Because with war you can go with both high dmg and haste…so Hb hasted is 4 secs? Really?

I doubt you read my post.

Steal + CnD + Backstab (unhasted) = 0 + 1/2 + 1/4 = 3/4
Hundred Blades (unhasted) = 7/2 (3 + 1/2) = 7/2
Steal + CnD + Backstab (hasted) = 0 + 1/4 + 1/8 = 3/8
Hundred Blades (hasted) = 7/4 (1 + 3/4) = 7/4

BS combo hasted < BS combo unhasted < HB hasted < HB unhasted

Plus, you are not considering the casting time of Bull’s Charge.

sorrow.2364:

Archaon.6245:

noone uses haste with BS combo…if he does he can’t reach very high damage cause you need all your utilities for might stacking….so OR 1.5 sec burst (But only able to kill, maybe, another glass cannon) OR very high dmg burst without haste you can’t go with both…..other questions? And…are you talking about frenzy HB? Because with war you can go with both high dmg and haste…so Hb hasted is 4 secs? Really?

I doubt you read my post.

Steal + CnD + Backstab (unhasted) = 0 + 1/2 + 1/4 = 3/4
Hundred Blades (unhasted) = 7/2 (3 + 1/2) = 7/2
Steal + CnD + Backstab (hasted) = 0 + 1/4 + 1/8 = 3/8
Hundred Blades (hasted) = 7/4 (1 + 3/4) = 7/4

BS combo hasted < BS combo unhasted < HB hasted < HB unhasted

Plus, you are not considering the casting time of Bull’s Charge.

With bull’s charge, bolas or both you’re going to get an hb on your face just like BS (Not…because if you get a BS on your face it deals half dmg)…or you can use a stunbreaker and evade it…just like BS..

If lots of people can easily avoid BS combos it means that you can actually counter them..or there are so many superhumans out there…

HB is far easier to counter than stealth burst thieves. There’s just no comparison.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Archaon.6245:

no they can’t…crying on forums is much more easy that learn how to counter someone

Any class that can instant-kill in three seconds is broken and makes the game unfun, regardless if some builds can happen to have any counters, and regardless if that profession dies in three seconds too.

Getting killed in three seconds, or surviving, countering, and killing in three seconds, is not fun. It’s a pure rock-paper-scissors game.

3 seconds it’s a pretty long time…gw1 good spikes usually drop you in 1 sec…and in that 1 sec the infuser, if he’s good, can heal and save you…everything in that short second…amazing uh?

Archaon.6245:

With bull’s charge, bolas or both you’re going to get an hb on your face just like BS (Not…because if you get a BS on your face it deals half dmg)…or you can use a stunbreaker and evade it…just like BS..

If lots of people can easily avoid BS combos it means that you can actually counter them..or there are so many superhumans out there…

The fact is that any unhasted BS combo is 2x faster to perform than an hasted HB.
This means, roughly, that an unhasted BS combo is 2x harder to counter than an hasted HB combo.
Plus, once you performed your hasted BS combo and you succeded to avoid it, you are forced for 60 seconds to perform only unhasted HB, which is actualy 4x slower than an unhasted BS, so roughly 4x easier to evade at least.
With your thief, on the other hand, you are still able to perform an half version of you backstab combo with CnD+Backstab every 3 seconds, which still deals pretty decent damage in 3/4 second.

sorrow.2364:

Archaon.6245:

With bull’s charge, bolas or both you’re going to get an hb on your face just like BS (Not…because if you get a BS on your face it deals half dmg)…or you can use a stunbreaker and evade it…just like BS..

If lots of people can easily avoid BS combos it means that you can actually counter them..or there are so many superhumans out there…

The fact is that any unhasted BS combo is 2x faster to perform than an hasted HB.
This means, roughly, that an unhasted BS combo is 2x harder to counter than an hasted HB combo.
Plus, once you performed your hasted BS combo and you succeded to avoid it, you are forced for 60 seconds to perform only unhasted HB, which is actualy 4x slower than an unhasted BS, so roughly 4x easier to evade at least.
With your thief, on the other hand, you are still able to perform an half version of you backstab combo with CnD+Backstab every 3 seconds, which still deals pretty decent damage in 3/4 seconds.

c&d BS alone means that you must stay in melee range…and you’re probably going to die before landing the first c&d if you are stupid enough not to get the crap away very fast….only a crazy glass thief would stay in melee range just to land a c&d..on the other hand with a warrior with invulnerability, more armor and way bigger hp pool you can stay there and keep on fighting

Archaon.6245:

c&d BS alone means that you must stay in melee range…and you’re probably going to die before landing the first c&d if you are stupid enough not to get the crap away very fast….only a crazy glass thief would stay in melee range just to land a c&d..on the other hand with a warrior with invulnerability, more armor and way bigger hp pool you can stay there and keep on fighting

Please, stop with those untrue statements.
Everyone is able to survive for 3 seconds to vanish in stealth again. A dodge just cover half of the time.

You’re right, by the way. None is that stupid to wait 3 seconds to perform another backstab combo when Heartseeker is more than enough to finish the job.

So, you said that actually thieves have better survivability because they can easily get out of the fight after the burst is done. Warriors, on the other hand, can’t leave the fight and are forced to be visible after the HB burst, ready to take all the damage and die (yes, a glass cannon warrior is almost as squishy as a glass cannon thief). 3 seconds invulnerability can’t save their kitten

sorrow.2364:

Archaon.6245:

c&d BS alone means that you must stay in melee range…and you’re probably going to die before landing the first c&d if you are stupid enough not to get the crap away very fast….only a crazy glass thief would stay in melee range just to land a c&d

Please, stop with those untrue statements.
Everyone is able to survive for 3 seconds to vanish in stealth again. A dodge just cover half of the time.

You’re right, by the way. None is that stupid to wait 3 seconds to perform another backstab combo when Heartseeker is more than enough to finish the job.

if in the other team are totally noobs…because if good players spot a thief first of all they’ll daze, cripple, chill and everything him as soon as he gets visible or just in range…if you mind waiting for him to stealth again and maybe letting him to get steal again well….maybe someone deserves what he gets…and i play ele, guardian, mesmer and cond dmg thief…and i can’t avoid HS spammers PW and BS pretty much everytime…if i get killed it’s because i made a mistake or i had stuff on cd, not because it was impossible to counter

Archaon.6245:

if in the other team are totally noobs…because if good players spot a thief first of all they’ll daze, cripple, chill and everything him as soon as he gets visible or just in range…if you mind waiting for him to stealth again and maybe letting him to get steal again well….maybe someone deserves what he gets…and i play ele, guardian, mesmer and cond dmg thief…and i can’t avoid HS spammers PW and BS pretty much everytime…if i get killed it’s because i made a mistake or i have stuff on cd, not because it was impossible to counter

I don’t want to get in arguing about good players and bad players.
All I want to say is that BS is way harder to counter and has the lower risk than any other high burst combo/skill in this game and that’s why it should be nerfed.
Either increase of risk or reduced damage or increased ease of counter is needed.

I’ve never said BS combo is uncounterable, what I want to say is that compared to its damage and its risk, BS combo is by far too hard to counter. It has almost no downsides. It is fast, risk free, hard to counter and with a huge damage.

reduce dmg would lead to something like…i’m a bunker guardian and i’ll rule you all…

Anyway actually the best burst combo is mesmer’s mind wrack spam…if someone can’t avoid BS they’re probably going to explode with mind wrack

Archaon.6245:

reduce dmg would lead to something like…i’m a bunker guardian and i’ll rule you all…

actaully the best burst combo is mesmer’s mind wrack spam…if you can’t avoid BS you’re probably going to explode with mind wrack

I’m not going to explode to a mind wrack because I usually clean up the mesmer clones/phantasms. Is there something I should clean to reduce the thief burst?

So what? Bunker guardians are now an hard counter to backstab as they are an hard counter to almost every burst/raw damage build. Conditions and boon removals are the way to kill them fast.

no..just pop any def skill or daze, that would be more than enough to make him failing his burst

you can make a bunker guardian also able to face some necros…and with no more high burst ppl around they will all roll more condition convert and removal screwing up cond necros that are actually the only thing that can kill a mediocre bunker guardian

Fellknight.4820:

I end every match with my thief in the Number 1 slot…

No, you don’t.

I know this because you said:

Fellknight.4820:

I cannot burst anyone down with this spec in a few seconds it’s always a long drawn out fight that requires me to use all my abilties and make use of blindness over and over to save myself.

It’s amazing how many people on the forums claim to have these insane lose/win ratios and finish top dawg every game.

Where the **** are you people when I log in? PvP would be a lot more fun if these droves upon droves of spartans were actually online at any given time.

There are also some coming here saying “I play a thief and i’m too overpowered, i can permastealth and spam backstab while staying in stealth owning everything around” Already saw things like this…maybe play it and learn how it works BEFORE coming here talkin’ bs and saying you actually own everyone with a glass thief, a burst thief can only kill a few specs around (All glass cannons) everything just a little bit more balanced would simply laugh at BS…as i do with ele and mesmer…and cond/dazelock thief aswell