Guild Wars 2

Seeing the various threads around the forums about the problems of S2 I have decided to make a thread where we don’t have people getting all salty because a dev finally responded because everyone jumped on to it to try to get what they wanted said. I can see where both sides have their reasons for doing what they want. The OPs don’t want their complaint being derailed but others have had silence for so long they jump on it like an oasis in a desert.

I’ll start a list here.

1.) Matches are not fun. Blow outs whether you are winning or losing lose their flavor.
2.) Queue times in higher divisions are too long.
3.) Lack of incentive.
4.) Class imbalance.
5.) Esports.

I probably missed some since I stopped playing about a week or so ago but since I still come to these forums out of habit I thought why not try to do something to help. To best use this thread let’s not focus on complaining about the problems because there are tons of those threads let’s focus on discussing possible solutions that help everyone out not just one group.

Now in a separate post I will say what I think about the current problems of this season and based on the number of complaints there is a problem.

Number 1, 2 and 3 are causing a loop that is creating frustrations. We’ll take a pro player (and for the sakes of my point we will say anyone with a high enough skill level to be competitive in at least AG is a “pro player”), he gets all these blow out matches and maybe he thinks it’s great while he’s getting easy pips and then hits Legendary. Now what? Queue times are horrendous and even when he gets one there isn’t much of a tangible reward. So after a day or two of this he goes to an alt account or buys a new account to start the journey again so he can actually get matches. He plays these matches against lower skill levels and destroys them until he gets to Legendary again to start the process all over again. Multiply this by the number of pros doing the same thing.

Now take a casual player that isn’t that good or is maybe just getting into PvP. He gets rolled over and over again. He makes complaints and gets told by these same pros to just wait until things settle. So he waits and keeps playing or maybe takes a few days off but then comes back to face those same pros on new accounts. Then they complain again and get told they are where they belong but how do they get where they belong when they are facing Legendaries (on alt accounts) instead of Emeralds, Sapphires and Rubies.

Am I the only one that sees the deconstructive cycle here?

On the last 2 I will say that seeing only the same 4-6 classes being good is boring. There is a complete lack of variety which is boring to play and even more boring to watch. Why wait a half hour just to see 6 Reapers in the match? I don’t see a reason. Imbalanced balance requires more professions if you want it to work, or at the very least have all professions being viable but countering other professions. Not just the same 5 builds.

And then there comes Esports. Face it ANet you don’t have the viewership or playerbase in PvP. You are making the same mistake every new MOBA makes, you tried to go esports before you had the popularity to back it up. 4k viewers? That’s nothing. Multiply that by a hundred and you get about 10% of the viewers LoL gets for their World Championships. That money should have been spent on improving the game rather than trying to create something you don’t have the popularity for.

And why would you? “Hey wanna pay 50 bucks to play an imbalanced game and try to be a pro player?” Reply: “Nah, I think I’ll play LoL it’s free and even with the imbalance it still offers me more choices as well as a larger fan base.”

alright ill bite.

1- i dont think its possible to stop this from happening. people lose if they arent as skilled as the opposition, plain and simple. we can however stop this from happening repeatedly. many people have said in these forums they are constantly put in the same team against the same enemy team. its obvious that this is a big source of blowout and burnout. also it should be said that no two identical classes should be able to be on the same team, or if anything at least limit the number to two. a possible incentive to get people to switch classes would be to:
- show which classes are in q in a separate window.
- give both teams a notification that the match is suspended until a different profession is found, or a current player switches classes (keep them in q of course).
i think there would be enough people that just want to play instead of sit in a staring contest.
2- divide the number of higher division players evenly between two teams of the next lower division. dont start the match if there are an uneven number of higher players or if there are more higher players then lower (although not likely but the unlikelihood should be planned for). seems to me that higher players should have priority q’ing, or in other words the matchmaker should put these players in a team first, then the same division, then lower division players.

numbers 3-5 are mostly addressed in my previous post in the “top 5 improvements for pvp” thread here.

Stand The Wall.6987:

You don’t have to just go by that list, if there are other problems you can add to the list or just discuss as you want. I was just making some easy list to work with at the start.

Shadow.1345:

You don’t have to just go by that list, if there are other problems you can add to the list or just discuss as you want. I was just making some easy list to work with at the start.

alright, but i feel pretty braindead from too much forum posting. an easy to read list is just what i need :P

Well you or anyone else that wants to add to this.

I doubt they will be any Esport this season, the challeneger cups weren’t even broadcasted live. I d be surprised though.

Shadow.1345:

Number 1, 2 and 3 are causing a loop that is creating frustrations. We’ll take a pro player (and for the sakes of my point we will say anyone with a high enough skill level to be competitive in at least AG is a “pro player”), he gets all these blow out matches and maybe he thinks it’s great while he’s getting easy pips and then hits Legendary. Now what? Queue times are horrendous and even when he gets one there isn’t much of a tangible reward. So after a day or two of this he goes to an alt account or buys a new account to start the journey again so he can actually get matches. He plays these matches against lower skill levels and destroys them until he gets to Legendary again to start the process all over again. Multiply this by the number of pros doing the same thing.

Now take a casual player that isn’t that good or is maybe just getting into PvP. He gets rolled over and over again. He makes complaints and gets told by these same pros to just wait until things settle. So he waits and keeps playing or maybe takes a few days off but then comes back to face those same pros on new accounts. Then they complain again and get told they are where they belong but how do they get where they belong when they are facing Legendaries (on alt accounts) instead of Emeralds, Sapphires and Rubies.

Am I the only one that sees the deconstructive cycle here?

Placement games are pretty much the answer to this, but might not work well due to population. And if you do get placed into a lower tier you can probably still play your way out relatively fast considering how good people are mowing their way out of Amber→Sapphire.

Shadow.1345:

On the last 2 I will say that seeing only the same 4-6 classes being good is boring. There is a complete lack of variety which is boring to play and even more boring to watch. Why wait a half hour just to see 6 Reapers in the match? I don’t see a reason. Imbalanced balance requires more professions if you want it to work, or at the very least have all professions being viable but countering other professions. Not just the same 5 builds.

IMO this is a symptom of Anet’s balancing style, which hasn’t really changed since GW1.

Shadow.1345:

And then there comes Esports. Face it ANet you don’t have the viewership or playerbase in PvP. You are making the same mistake every new MOBA makes, you tried to go esports before you had the popularity to back it up. 4k viewers? That’s nothing. Multiply that by a hundred and you get about 10% of the viewers LoL gets for their World Championships. That money should have been spent on improving the game rather than trying to create something you don’t have the popularity for.

And why would you? “Hey wanna pay 50 bucks to play an imbalanced game and try to be a pro player?” Reply: “Nah, I think I’ll play LoL it’s free and even with the imbalance it still offers me more choices as well as a larger fan base.”

Anet has heavily hinted that the esports aspect is more of a giant ad than anything else, and they’re very satisfied with the number of new players it has generated. I don’t think they expect it to get anywhere near LoL, DotA, or Starcraft.

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

Shadow.1345:

Number 1, 2 and 3 are causing a loop that is creating frustrations. We’ll take a pro player (and for the sakes of my point we will say anyone with a high enough skill level to be competitive in at least AG is a “pro player”), he gets all these blow out matches and maybe he thinks it’s great while he’s getting easy pips and then hits Legendary. Now what? Queue times are horrendous and even when he gets one there isn’t much of a tangible reward. So after a day or two of this he goes to an alt account or buys a new account to start the journey again so he can actually get matches. He plays these matches against lower skill levels and destroys them until he gets to Legendary again to start the process all over again. Multiply this by the number of pros doing the same thing.

Now take a casual player that isn’t that good or is maybe just getting into PvP. He gets rolled over and over again. He makes complaints and gets told by these same pros to just wait until things settle. So he waits and keeps playing or maybe takes a few days off but then comes back to face those same pros on new accounts. Then they complain again and get told they are where they belong but how do they get where they belong when they are facing Legendaries (on alt accounts) instead of Emeralds, Sapphires and Rubies.

Am I the only one that sees the deconstructive cycle here?

Placement games are pretty much the answer to this, but might not work well due to population. And if you do get placed into a lower tier you can probably still play your way out relatively fast considering how good people are mowing their way out of Amber->Sapphire.

Shadow.1345:

On the last 2 I will say that seeing only the same 4-6 classes being good is boring. There is a complete lack of variety which is boring to play and even more boring to watch. Why wait a half hour just to see 6 Reapers in the match? I don’t see a reason. Imbalanced balance requires more professions if you want it to work, or at the very least have all professions being viable but countering other professions. Not just the same 5 builds.

IMO this is a symptom of Anet’s balancing style, which hasn’t really changed since GW1.

Shadow.1345:

And then there comes Esports. Face it ANet you don’t have the viewership or playerbase in PvP. You are making the same mistake every new MOBA makes, you tried to go esports before you had the popularity to back it up. 4k viewers? That’s nothing. Multiply that by a hundred and you get about 10% of the viewers LoL gets for their World Championships. That money should have been spent on improving the game rather than trying to create something you don’t have the popularity for.

And why would you? “Hey wanna pay 50 bucks to play an imbalanced game and try to be a pro player?” Reply: “Nah, I think I’ll play LoL it’s free and even with the imbalance it still offers me more choices as well as a larger fan base.”

Anet has heavily hinted that the esports aspect is more of a giant ad than anything else, and they’re very satisfied with the number of new players it has generated. I don’t think they expect it to get anywhere near LoL, DotA, or Starcraft.

WHAT new players? All e-sports pushing ever did was drive them AWAY.

The REWARD TRACKS and BACKPACK are what brought new players. Let’s not kid ourselves.

Picture this item. It’s a custom helm skin, sold in the gem store. It looks like a paper bag, with the eyes cut out. Exactly like the New Orleans Saints fans had way back when they were terrible. When equipped, you are given persistent dishonor, so you can not queue up for a PvP match. It is called The Scrub.

I would buy that item.

1) While some matches are blowouts, which is unavoidable. even with the best matchmaking system in the world there will always be the occasional blowout. However, I have found that as I am in diamond now, I see far less blowout games than I did before, I think it all gets better when people get to the higher divisions.

2) I have seen no problems with queue times yet. I am in diamond tier 6 and have not seen a queue longer than 6 minutes, most are less than 4 minutes. I will see how it changes when I get to legendary.

3) I agree that there is a lack of incentive to play once you get to legendary because there is very little more to work for. Why try to get to prestige 5 if nobody can see it? I think your prestige level should show next to your legendary rank badge.

4) Class imbalance is something that I don’t really care about or notice in pvp. Skill is far more important than the class you play. I would much rather have a very skilled warrior on my team than a bad necro. No matter how much balance Anet try to do, there will always be good classes and bad classes. I like how the balance is at the moment.

5) I feel like I am in the minority for this but I absolutely love the esports for this game. It is so fun to watch, i love seeing how the teams do in the pro league season, it is absolutely incredible in my opinion. It really is. If I had a choice between never being able to play pvp again and never being able to watch the pro league/other esport events again I would choose to never play pvp again, and I love pvp at the moment. I would really encourage Anet to carry on with the pro league for many more seasons because there is nothing I have done ingame that is as exciting as watching the best games in the pro league. Yes there are some boring games to watch but the close ones make it all worth it.

Ranking players over WINS is not enough.

It need to give you a better rank (division or whatever the rank is) if you beat better players and a lower rank if you are beaten by a lower team than yours.

The Rewards should not tie to the Ranking, but tied to another form of GRINDING.

That way, a Legendary player is really a GREAT player.

That way, a High MMR soloq who beat easy team all along the way would never have a top RANK.

To get the top, you need to fights and win the TOP. Now being on TOP would mean really something.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6048108

too bad this thread got derailed by opinions. i was looking forward to reading some solutions.

Well solutions ?

Solution number 1 which pleases majority of player base.

Getting back to s1 model, where everyone can enjoy their matches and have progression in it. Something with smurfing should be done too. Wings are good, but it’s not enough to keep people interested for long time. Add league specific reward track with fluff etc.

Majority happy, a lot of people play ranked.

Solution number 2. Scrap Leagues, get back to Leaderboards and Matchmaking purely based on MMR remove rewards and move it into unranked/reward track.

Minority happy, Majority happy.