The Ups and Downs of Class Locking
how is that making it so you cant class stack? I mean from waht i get thy do this for class specific mmr and more accurate mm.
@OP:
You claim to be talking about pros and cons, but you laud the desired outcome as pros over the realistic outcome while not listing the real and overwhelming cons.
Reasons to vote “Yes”
- Profession stacking can be lessened (but not eliminated) by the matchmaker.
- Shorter queue times for less popular professions.
- Profession/Character-based MMR can be employed. This is good for people who want to learn a new profession.
Reasons to vote “No”
- Profession stacking won’t be eliminated even by voting “yes” because low population and trying to minimize queue times will overcome the multiple profession penalty.
- Voting “yes” would lead to longer queue times for popular professions since the matchmaker would initially prefer 2 per match.
- Voting “yes” would lead to worse matches because larger skill differentials are preferred over smaller differentials with stacked professions.
- Inability to change profession to balance out a teams roles and eliminate weaknesses. If you get two thieves, you’re stuck with two thieves. Almost every profession has one good build with small variation and one role, so switching build isn’t a viable solution.
- Because you can’t change profession or build to make a more balanced team comp, winning or losing becomes more based on luck with matchmaker.
- Profession stacking actually gets worse because players avoid queuing as professions with clear-cut weaknesses (thief loses to DH, Necro gets farmed without support, support ele needs good DPS, etc.).
To any rational person, the reasons for “No” far outweigh the benefits of “Yes”. The “Yes” vote was initially winning because people make rash, uninformed decisions based on what they want it to do. As people read arguments for “No” and realized that “Yes” had unrealistic outcomes attached to it, “No” overtook “Yes”.
I would also make a suggestion to ANet: Before you enable voting, post the poll choices and let players debate it for a day or two.
Kirrena Rosenkreutz
(edited by Exedore.6320)
how is that making it so you cant class stack? I mean from waht i get thy do this for class specific mmr and more accurate mm.
It is clear you did not read the original poll thread, Evan stated that if Queue lock was implemented they would look at a Soft limit on Class stacking, which would helped against Class stacking to an extent and is better than anything we have now.
Same with Exedor both didn’t read the Dev posts on the solutions presented in the thread.
And if Queues are class locked guess what it will highlight the Overtuned/Overused class and then if there is any competency left appropriate action will be taken to bring them in line with the rest pretty simple concepts. The pros far outweigh the cons.
But I have a huge inkling that the people that are against the Class Queue lock play the Overtuned/Overused and fear that appropriate action would be taken.
(edited by BlaqueFyre.5678)
- Because you can’t change profession or build to make a more balanced team comp, winning or losing becomes more based on luck with matchmaker.
It’s already luckbased. In my experience, when people swap to counter/stop stacking it’s like a 50/50 chance that they are actually good enough to use the class they swap to. half of the time they are can’t play it properly/good enough which make you lose anyway.
- Profession stacking actually gets worse because players avoid queuing as professions with clear-cut weaknesses (thief loses to DH, Necro gets farmed without support, support ele needs good DPS, etc.).
This is pure speculation as Anet never stated how they would implement this lock. They have mentioned soft caps on class stacking and other thing they could do. Having a soft cap could actually get rid of people swapping between the flavour of the month because of longer queues. This is also pure speculation.
The main problem with this poll is how it’s extremly vague. We have no clue to what will happen after if it goes through. Anet has only mentioned a few things they could potentially do. If they actually said “if this goes through we have this list of things we want to do” then this poll would be way better as we would actually know what we voted for long term. Vague potential changes are not helpful to make people decide. This change without any of the other possible changes would most likely make things worse.
Edit: format
(edited by DTATL.9641)
So ArenaNet decided to be great lads and have a poll about whether or not they should remove the ability to class stack in games. To be completely honest, I thought that the Yes side was going to annihilate and be a landslide victory, but its the oppsite. No side is actually winning. So I’ve gathered some thoughts as to why the poll is so close, with either one at almost 50-50
To be honest with you, class locking professions would be amazing. If ArenaNet can actually make it work. First off, they need to remove the ready bar, as people in lower divisions need to understand not to insta-ready and put some time and thought into their team composition and roles. Secondly, give each team the usual 1 minute and 15 seconds (i think) before the match starts to reroll into classes and change some things up in their builds. THEN after the timer is gone, and match starts, deny players from switching classes while the game is still going on. Lock them into the class they’re playing only until the game ends. This system would work tremendously well in my complete honest opinion and would put sPvP in the right direction.
BUT, even though with all those following things said, there is one flaw that players fear with class locking, and that is que times. Also not to mention, there are meta classes that have more population than any other class, and there are players that only have one character and they can’t multi-class any other classes. So this makes que times especially hard. I can’t imagine what legend/platinum que times will look like if this is implemented.
Like I said, this is a great idea in my honest opinion from ArenaNet, but they need to find a way to class lock while not having que times over 10+ minutes. Tell me what you’re thoughts are as well, as this is truly a close debate between the PvP community.
There’s some issues with ur post OP:
Firstly, the poll is NOT about class stacking, at all. The poll is about being able to switch CHARACTERS during pre-game or at queue. Anet has NOT stated that they will be hard limiting 1 class per team, infact with a quick search you can see that it is actually NOT on their to do list.
Secondly, class (better termed CHARACTER) locking is NOT a great thing, because of the LAZY balance in the game, 1 class can have (X) direct hardcounters, enjoy your wins and losses being based COMPLETELY on your assumption of the enemy team’s comp, since there is no pick/ban phase and it is impossible to know the enemy team amulet, trait, weapon, and utility choices before the game begins. With a “yes” win on the poll, I wont be able to even switch to a different character of the same class (with a different build) and with a “no” win on the poll, I STILL WONT be able to make up for any disadvantages the MM threw my way. It’s a cold hard LOSE / LOSE.
As far as queue times are concerned, I’m sure the VAST majority of players will wait an extra minute or 5 or even 10 for ACTUALLY even teams, but that just is not possible in this game, because there is not a large enough population to support it; as evident from S5 where the disparity in rating between players on the same team could and were OFTEN over 700+ points.
(edited by Vicariuz.1605)
Its honestly really simple why “No” has more votes and why it SHOULD have more votes.
You can’t ask people to not want to queue up on their favourite classes. If I end up with 2+ thieves in my games and the enemy manages to get 2+ DHs, I don’t want the game to be a struggle right from -1m of the match.
See, the way I see it is this:
- They introduce class locking and then the matchmaker looks to introduce class balance on both teams. On paper, this sounds good. In reality, it means the popular classes will take years to get into a game and the unpopular classes will get insta Q pops. Not a problem for the unpopular classes, but a terrible thing for the guys on the popular ones.
- They introduce class locking and the matchmaker doesn’t look for balanced teams (for better overall Q times). This will create a ton of frustration for the players who simply get out-team comped with no recourse (not every class can be built to do everything).
- They dont introduce class locking but the match maker looks for balanced teams (which is what it is right now, if I’m not mistaken).
- They dont introduce class locking and the match maker doesn’t look for balanced teams. This is fine as well, I suppose.
I mean, if they DO introduce class locking, they’ll be forced to finally create some meaningful reworks to classes. There is no excuse, honestly, for there to be whole utility types that are useless on some classes, but the reasons are sometimes far beyond that.
In my opinion, 1 sided class stacking is the issue they want to tackle, and not class stacking in general. To give you an example I’ve faced A LOT recently where 1 team is a DPS tank (with little mobility) and the other team are classes that NEED tanks to function:
Team A:
4x Guard
1x Mesmer
Team B:
2x Necro
2x Ele
1x Ranger
Voting “Yes” does not necessarily mean the 4 guards would have to be split into 2 matches, but they could be split among the 2 teams so you AT LEAST don’t have the stacked class on 1 team therefor putting the opposite team at an advantage/disadvantage.
Alternative scenarios where both teams have a lot of stacked class (such team a having 3 guards and team b having 4) are fine. I mean if people want to play a class let them play it, just don’t put all of them on 1 team.
(edited by Jitsuryoku.9038)
Reasons to vote “No”
- Profession stacking won’t be eliminated even by voting “yes” because low population and trying to minimize queue times will overcome the multiple profession penalty.
- Voting “yes” would lead to longer queue times for popular professions since the matchmaker would initially prefer 2 per match.
- Voting “yes” would lead to worse matches because larger skill differentials are preferred over smaller differentials with stacked professions.
- Inability to change profession to balance out a teams roles and eliminate weaknesses. If you get two thieves, you’re stuck with two thieves. Almost every profession has one good build with small variation and one role, so switching build isn’t a viable solution.
- Because you can’t change profession or build to make a more balanced team comp, winning or losing becomes more based on luck with matchmaker.
- Profession stacking actually gets worse because players avoid queuing as professions with clear-cut weaknesses (thief loses to DH, Necro gets farmed without support, support ele needs good DPS, etc.).
Two more reasons. The first one doesn’t really apply to me because I don’t do Conquest, only Stronghold and there is only one SH map. But anyway, players might have characters that they play better with on different maps. If you play conquest you don’t know which map you’ll get. Just an example and not even sure if it’s correct given I don’t play Conquest but Foefire is quite flat, you might want to use a melee character more than somewhere like the temple where there are high up places you can go and snipe with a ranged character.
The other thing was for when you are queuing outside of HotM. You might want to do map completion, events, WvW with one character but play with a different character in PvP.