Guild Wars 2

Maybe I’m missing something, but I swear I’m getting hit with 10x more fear with this patch than I ever have. Not sure if its a duration change or what, but I have a screen of what just happened to me:

I was seeing that from necro’s even before this patch. Now with more necros playing with them being the FOTM we will be seeing it a lot more i’m sure. I thought the fear damage was supposed to be per application not per second feared…?

Jastorm.5972:

I was seeing that from necro’s even before this patch. Now with more necros playing with them being the FOTM we will be seeing it a lot more i’m sure. I thought the fear damage was supposed to be per application not per second feared…?

Fear is a condition as well as a CC, so it ticks with the ICD that every other condition ticks with so if a necro has 1.5-1.7 seconds on Fear (ie: 50-70% duration increase) it will tick twice when timed correctly AFTER other conditions are applied.

This was happening way before the recent patch, it’s just that more people are running Terror builds now and since we’ve always been so freaking UP, people don’t know how to fight us now that we’re on even footing.

It was, probably, also a mistake to give Spectral Wall a fear proc as well so we did gain an extra fear than we had. But NO ONE asked for that, so it’s all of ANet’s doing.

Now about the pic.. 234 Bleed ticks? That was either a really long fight in which case that amount of fear damage is reasonable or you didn’t cleanse/stun break at all in the fight; rather curious.

Stability will nullify at least 10k of that damage.

That does make sense on the dot ticking for damage. However does it need to deliver that much damage, especially on an adept trait. Engi’s used to have something like that too called static discharge… and kit refinement and both got nerfed because they were deemed “too powerful for an adept trait, builds should not be decided or based around adept traits”. So heads up to all the necro’s out there. Might not last, enjoy it while you can.

Chesire.9043:

Jastorm.5972:

I was seeing that from necro’s even before this patch. Now with more necros playing with them being the FOTM we will be seeing it a lot more i’m sure. I thought the fear damage was supposed to be per application not per second feared…?

Fear is a condition as well as a CC, so it ticks with the ICD that every other condition ticks with so if a necro has 1.5-1.7 seconds on Fear (ie: 50-70% duration increase) it will tick twice when timed correctly AFTER other conditions are applied.

This was happening way before the recent patch, it’s just that more people are running Terror builds now and since we’ve always been so freaking UP, people don’t know how to fight us now that we’re on even footing.

It was, probably, also a mistake to give Spectral Wall a fear proc as well so we did gain an extra fear than we had. But NO ONE asked for that, so it’s all of ANet’s doing.

Now about the pic.. 234 Bleed ticks? That was either a really long fight in which case that amount of fear damage is reasonable or you didn’t cleanse/stun break at all in the fight; rather curious.

Stability will nullify at least 10k of that damage.

I’m a ranger, I had already blown my Signet of Renewal, and the Necro had already killed the pet from AoE+Empathic Bond, since eating AoE unblockable staff marks. The only thing I can say I did wrong was experimenting with pets, and my only stability source was on cooldown.
However, I was probably getting attacked by somebody else. The bleed stacks weren’t really my concern, even though I probably wouldn’t of eaten nearly as many if I could have moved.

I was asking because the fears were back to back, and as far as I can tell they would have had to Death Shroud fear me, then staff, then while I’m feared, forced me through their wall.

I’m still not sure on the last source, maybe I proc’d it off their runes or something, but it was A LOT of fear to eat at one sitting and there wasn’t much I could have done outside of how I tried to handle it.

More like flavor of the week. Just give it some time for people to remember to kill the Necro first. A little CC still goes a long way against Necros.

Also, just save your stun break for the Fear. You don’t want to eat the damage obviously, and the window between uses is fairly big. once they’ve blown it they don’t have much but conditions. CC + Burst = win.

And if all else fails, just run away. They still can’t pursue for kitten.

Every newbie wants to roll a necro because they’ve heard this got buffed. It’s not op, it’s just that for a few days every single newcomer plays this class, so probably the amount of fear you got was inflicted by more necs.

Or you were dumb enough to run into spectral wall multiple times in a row.

Gandarel.5091:

Every newbie wants to roll a necro because they’ve heard this got buffed. It’s not op, it’s just that for a few days every single newcomer plays this class, so probably the amount of fear you got was inflicted by more necs.

Or you were dumb enough to run into spectral wall multiple times in a row.

Is that even legitimately possible?

I’m 100% I got hit with the staff fear, and with all my cleanses on cooldown, the rest of wherever the fears came from took over until I died.

Jastorm.5972:

Stability will nullify at least 10k of that damage.

lol, you don’t sPvP. You’ll keep Stability for a second before I remove it.

I don’t really think that the 10k damage from fear is the damage which killed you.
I think that the 40k damage from bleeds is the issue you should look at.

Necro isn’t capable to stack and keep a lot of bleeds on the target as engis or rangers can.
You probably did not cleansed it at all during the whole fight, eating all the bleeds you took.

If you didn’t run into spectral wall twice and there were no other necros around, you were probably doomed twice.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Doom

The only other way I can think off the top of my head to fear someone for 10 seconds without using any abilities twice is reaper’s protection.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Protection

sorrow.2364:

I don’t really think that the 10k damage from fear is the damage which killed you.
I think that the 40k damage from bleeds is the issue you should look at.

Necro isn’t capable to stack and keep a lot of bleeds on the target as engis or rangers can.
You probably did not cleansed it at all during the whole fight, eating all the bleeds you took.

I’m playing a ranger, it isn’t as though I have much on demand condi removal outside of my heal and Signet of Renewal,

So yes, while I agree that the bleeds contributed to my death, losing control of my character for 10s back to back probably didn’t help when I was trying to use my heals and weapon evades.

Mammoth.1975:

If you didn’t run into spectral wall twice and there were no other necros around, you were probably doomed twice.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Doom

The only other way I can think off the top of my head to fear someone for 10 seconds without using any abilities twice is reaper’s protection.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Protection

Well if they had runes that proc’d, Staff 5, DS 4, and they feared me through the new spectral wall, that’s about 8s right there I’m assuming. And yes, I think Reaper’s Protection put me to 10 then, from my wolfs leap. That makes sense.

hackks.3687:

More like flavor of the week. Just give it some time for people to remember to kill the Necro first. A little CC still goes a long way against Necros.

Also, just save your stun break for the Fear. You don’t want to eat the damage obviously, and the window between uses is fairly big. once they’ve blown it they don’t have much but conditions. CC + Burst = win.

And if all else fails, just run away. They still can’t pursue for kitten.

Pretty much this. Necros can’t do anything against CC chains. Very few go 30 into SR for Foot in the Grave.

Give it a few weeks for the new patch smell to wear off, and you’ll see a lot less Necros.

jcbroe.4329:

Gandarel.5091:

Every newbie wants to roll a necro because they’ve heard this got buffed. It’s not op, it’s just that for a few days every single newcomer plays this class, so probably the amount of fear you got was inflicted by more necs.

Or you were dumb enough to run into spectral wall multiple times in a row.

Is that even legitimately possible?

I’m 100% I got hit with the staff fear, and with all my cleanses on cooldown, the rest of wherever the fears came from took over until I died.

Fear is a condition that stacks duration, so it is possible to stunlock you with a chain of them. But a fear usually lasts for approx. 1 sec, and has a pretty huge CD. (usually 30-40 sec).

Gandarel.5091:

jcbroe.4329:

Gandarel.5091:

Every newbie wants to roll a necro because they’ve heard this got buffed. It’s not op, it’s just that for a few days every single newcomer plays this class, so probably the amount of fear you got was inflicted by more necs.

Or you were dumb enough to run into spectral wall multiple times in a row.

Is that even legitimately possible?

I’m 100% I got hit with the staff fear, and with all my cleanses on cooldown, the rest of wherever the fears came from took over until I died.

Fear is a condition that stacks duration, so it is possible to stunlock you with a chain of them. But a fear usually lasts for approx. 1 sec, and ha a pretty huge CD. (usually 30-40 sec).

30-40s is not a “huge” CD. Deathshroud fear is on a 20s cooldown, traited spectral wall is on a 32s CD.

Yes, fears are incredibly OP in conjunction with all the damage they can dish out already. Terror is probably the most insane trait ever when you factor in a target with burning. You can EASILY see targets losing 3k HP per second while they’re consistently chain CC’d and soft CC’d.

People thought HGH was bad. Try having double the condi damage of HGH while actually being CC’d. Necros are simply broken.

30-40cd for 1 sec is kinda huge for me. But with burning + condi build necs can get nuked even faster than they used to be before.

Also, our signet of undeath got killed.

jcbroe.4329:

I’m playing a ranger, it isn’t as though I have much on demand condi removal outside of my heal and Signet of Renewal,

So yes, while I agree that the bleeds contributed to my death, losing control of my character for 10s back to back probably didn’t help when I was trying to use my heals and weapon evades.

Fear is also a condition other than a CC.
If your time your Sig of Renewal when you’re feared you get cleansed and you also break stun.

Staying in you Healing Spring, also is a big damage mitigation. It can also work as a fearbreaker if you’re lucky enough.

Also, keep in mind that if you were running conditions too, it is pretty hard to win a Necro in a long fight.

ArenaNet said that they wanted the Necro to be stronger the longer the fight lasts. They finally archieved their goal.

Nerf spectral wall to kitten shreds, nerfhammer it down the depths of unplayability, something worse than what happened to c&d after beta, even worse than the deathshroud nerf, banish it for all eternity with the banscythe of dhuum himself.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Yes, fears are incredibly OP in conjunction with all the damage they can dish out already. Terror is probably the most insane trait ever when you factor in a target with burning. You can EASILY see targets losing 3k HP per second while they’re consistently chain CC’d and soft CC’d.

People thought HGH was bad. Try having double the condi damage of HGH while actually being CC’d. Necros are simply broken.

Now now, let us please be mathematically realistic here. 3 k per second, hmmmm. A fear tends to usually tick for 1,1 K + a second and burning around 630 or something? so let’s say together they tick for 2 k a second(I’ll give you a bonus 200 for free here), that leaves another 1 k per second to bleeds/poison/torment. Flip around the numbers as you like here. The only thing that you can really call “broken” is most likely the new spectral wall, outside of it, it’s not really that much to make you go nuts.

And again, it would help for you to post in a calm way and provide proper analysis and explanation of what builds and combinations specifically you think are over the top.

New target aquired.

Spvp QQers crossfire starting in 3…2…1…

Gl with that Necs.

/Mes

Lachanche.6859:

Nerf spectral wall to kitten shreds, nerfhammer it down the depths of unplayability, something worse than what happened to c&d after beta, even worse than the deathshroud nerf, banish it for all eternity with the banscythe of dhuum himself.

Nooooo, please nooo, just rework it to what it was in pre patch but with a fixed and not bugged combo field.

I think it’d be sufficient to reduce the DS3 to what it was.
The difference between traited 2 seconds of fear and 3 seconds is pretty huge given that it is the most frequently used fear to ANY Necromancer.

But please don’t nerf the cooldown – it’s actually one of the few things Necros can rely on, when being CCed or want to prevent a ress.

The new Wall is cool – but i don’t understand why so many people are running through it repeatedly.

zach.1847:

I think it’d be sufficient to reduce the DS3 to what it was.
The new Wall is cool – but i don’t understand why so many people are running through it repeatedly.

This. I guess it is just easier to cry for a nerf than to learn to play and pay attention to the field.

“YAY we can no longer crush necros so easily omg nerf pls can’t avoid bumping into a freaking wall compensate me for this”

Yes – it’s hardly harder to avoid than Guardian-Staff.
Don’t know about fearing people into the wall – but i imagine that you’d have to be rather skillful to pull this off with clever positioning and still rely on luck/ that your opponent doesn’t notice what ur up to.
I use it as an effective defensive-move against a thief when he’s popping invisibility – knowing he has to waste most of his stealth to get around it.

kitten is so funny to see the amount of qq about necros in the forum – the class was barely usable previously, just signet of undeath and putting wells. Now they added a new condition, spectral wall that gives fear for 5 sec on 40 sec cds if you are too stupid to keep running into it, moved couple of traits around, and suddenly when people cannot steamroll the class without changing the strategy everyone looses their minds…

L2P

I main necro, other than thief it’s all I’ve ever played. I honestly love the new changes to the class but I hate that it has brought in a HUGE influx of necro players. I enjoyed being 1 of about 10 people that played them in tournaments.

Yesterday was ridiculous. I solo que’d a good bit and I swear every single match had at LEAST 4 necros in it with sometimes 6-8. It was an absolute cluster. I won’t get into the whole argument of people rolling the FOTM etc but I think the problem people are seeing with the class is just multiple necro’s per team. The CC on the fear compounds greatly with multiple necro’s and makes it seem like they can’t do anything (they can’t without stability).

I’m hoping people go back to their other classes and we start seeing all these people jumping back off the band wagon soon. If not then I honestly am 100% for a nerf to necro’s which I thought I would never say.

I agree that part of the issue is people aren’t used to facing necro’s. I like to duel a lot and would win a lot of 1v1’s simply because people didn’t know what to do.

There’s a lot of crying going on right now (I’m one of them!) but I think it’s more to do with the fact people are just encountering multiple necro’s on teams now and don’t know how to handle them. The biggest counter to a terror necro is stability and being focused. Nothing at all changed with our ability to handle focus fire. 2 DPS on a necro will absolutely destroy him in a heartbeat.

AndrewSX.3794:

New target aquired.

Spvp QQers crossfire starting in 3…2…1…

Gl with that Necs.

/Mes

It’s frustrating but part of me is enjoying it. We’re taken seriously now. As long as anet doesn’t give in to the shenanigans I’ll be happy to accept (the undeserved and hilarious) title of OP. I just hope they still haven’t remembered that we have zero mobility and severely limited access to DS as a condition necro.

Necros have really huge access to Fear:

- Deathshroud #3
- Staff #5
- Spectral Wall (Which you can be pulled/knocked into for another fear)
- Corrupt Boon (When converting Stability)
- Reaper’s Protection
- Nightmare Runes

It allows Terror Necros to do quite a bit of direct damage on top of condi spam. IMO that amount of fear is over the top.

What I’ld change is:
- Make Spectral Wall capable of affecting each target only once every 3-4 seconds (Kinda like what was done to Lotus Poison on Thief).
- Make Stability immune to Corrupt Boon (still suspectable to all other boon removals tho), so it counters Terror Necros just like every other CC build, instead of providing them with an extra Fear source.

Harrier.9380:

- Make Stability immune to Corrupt Boon (still suspectable to all other boon removals tho), so it counters Terror Necros just like every other CC build, instead of providing them with an extra Fear source.

A lot of people will freak out from seeing this and won’t approve this lol.
Personally I think corrupt boon sucks and it sucked pre patch, well of corruption is(especially now) and was way, WAAAAAY better. Although I couldn’t bring myself to drop corrupt boon pre patch, was running well of corruption, corrupt boon and flesh wurm at the end.

AndrewSX.3794:

New target aquired.

Spvp QQers crossfire starting in 3…2…1…

Gl with that Necs.

/Mes

not to throw mesmers under the bus….lol…dem shatter spams hurt. I’ve had teammates get nuked in 3-4 seconds from full health due to bad positioning

but REALLY? killing you guys over the course of 8-10 seconds calls for a QQ???

Finally…..let your misguided tears strengthen me…mwahahaha

Tons of more necros because of the patch. At least 1-2 each team. That means more fear of course because they have a lot of fear skills.

Ostricheggs.3742:

30-40s is not a “huge” CD. Deathshroud fear is on a 20s cooldown, traited spectral wall is on a 32s CD.

Yes, fears are incredibly OP in conjunction with all the damage they can dish out already. Terror is probably the most insane trait ever when you factor in a target with burning. You can EASILY see targets losing 3k HP per second while they’re consistently chain CC’d and soft CC’d.

People thought HGH was bad. Try having double the condi damage of HGH while actually being CC’d. Necros are simply broken.

This is the typical hyperbole you see after a patch, especially when a class that was extinct is now playable. The exact same things were said about HGH until adjustments were made.

They wanted Necros “to be able to stay in the pocket more and do dmg” instead of just being a damage sponge with very little burst. They said they didn’t want to give necros more mobility, vigor, healing, stability, immunity, etc. so they decided to add more options to use a core ability – fear.

Personally, I would of given more variety to Necros defensive package rather than put so much power into one ability. It makes a Necro very formidable when all the fears are available and they have full life force.

On the flip side, there is still nothing easier to kill than an zero life force necro without all their fears available. Any build that doesn’t do dmg on fear is also nothing that special for necros either.

BTW, 30-40 seconds IS one of the longer cooldowns for non-elite abilities. The DS fear cooldown may be 20 seconds, but it also requires life force, so go spectate a Necro and count how many times he spams DS fear every 20 seconds. Maybe then you will realize your hyperbole.

Right now, people are seeing more Necros…getting hit by more fears…and using builds that aren’t anti-conditions. I think many people who previously ignored traits/sigils/runes that remove conditions or protect them from CC will now have to consider them.

If you’re position is that those traits, sigils, and runes should remain almost extinct, then so be it….I guess you prefer things to go back to where they were and Necros were “feared” (forgive the pun) by no one.

jcbroe.4329:

Maybe I’m missing something, but I swear I’m getting hit with 10x more fear with this patch than I ever have. Not sure if its a duration change or what, but I have a screen of what just happened to me:

Chain fear does up to 13k damage. You got lucky there. Stability is useless vs necro since most are running scepter + focus with the terror build (focus #5 removes boons). They may even have corrupt boon or well of corruption on their skill bar since it’s a condi build.

On the plus side, necros are viewed as a serious threat now and get spiked down on sight. I logged into my necro to try out some new builds post-patch and could feel the hate (as well as mapchat QQ) as I was singled out in group fights. Until necros get a valid combat escape/damage immunity, they won’t be viable in competitive play. Condi necros were already powerful; they just got spiked down before they could do much. Not much has changed.

Terok.7315:

AndrewSX.3794:

New target aquired.

Spvp QQers crossfire starting in 3…2…1…

Gl with that Necs.

/Mes

It’s frustrating but part of me is enjoying it. We’re taken seriously now. As long as anet doesn’t give in to the shenanigans I’ll be happy to accept (the undeserved and hilarious) title of OP. I just hope they still haven’t remembered that we have zero mobility and severely limited access to DS as a condition necro.

Anet has a pretty strong track record of giving in to the shenanigans, so your hope might be somewhat misplaced.

On the topic of Necromancers stripping boons:

If a Necro has a boon-strip on their bar, they are missing a stunbreak or a defensive cooldown (such as Well of Darkness). This means they can be equally CC’d into oblivion and anything with a stunbreak has the upper hand.

If a Necro doesn’t take a boon-strip, this means they have more staying power but anything with stability can overcome their damage.

Just a couple of notes I’ve thought of while playing my Necro. Oh, and most people don’t avoid S. Wall, and that’s something people will have to learn over time.

jimmyimo.2089:

You forgot Well of Corruption. However, the high burst damage necros do not have Reaper’s Protection ( they will have to sacrifice the burning, which is about 6k ), nor do they have Nightmare runes as they rather have 20% longer Fear duration from the Rune of the Necromancer.

• Not using stability when you’re close to a necro is as simple as not trying to heal inside a Chaos Storm.

Also,

• 1. Block or dodge the Mark.
• 2. Avoid Spectral Wall.
• 3. They have extremely low life force, so if you hit them with any high damage attack once they go into DS, you completely nullify their torment, and fear.

Do two of the three above, and you are victorious. They have two dodges, and a single blind; that is it. They cannot use DS as they use it for their burst. I cannot think of a more squishy build than the current Fear Necro one.

Gw2 is hard. [/end sarcasm]

I was just listing possibilities, never said every Necro has them all, just like not every one runs Spectral Grasp for double fear from Wall.

SG back into SWall is so fun

seraphenslaved.6235:

SG back into SWall is so fun

It’s not so fun on the receiving end ;<

just let the bandwagoneers go back to their old classes and it wont be that bad. This is no different than if everyone rolled CC engis and knocked and blasted everyone around constantly

We have 70 points to spend.

Terror MUST traits.

Curses – 20 points (Condition dmg + Critical Chance)
Terror – Fear does dmg – Master Major Trait

Soul Reaper – 20 points (Critical dmg + Life force pool)
Master of Terror – Fear last 50% more – Master Major Trait

It leave us with 30 point to spent in the rest.

To add Burning

Spite – 30 points (Power + Condition Duration)
Dhuumfire – Inflict burn on critical hit, 10 seconds CD – Gransmaster Trait
0 points left

All the 70 points were spent and it leave us with no Greater Marks (Death Magic – Adept Trait), so it leaves our Staff with no AoE and it need us to have future sight to land it.

About the fear CC chain that a Necro can achieve.

Reaper’ Mark – Staff
CD: 40 sec
(Traited 32 sec – 10 Point in Death Magic without Greater Marks – 20 points with Greater Marks)
1s fear (Traited 1.5s)

Doom – Deathshroud
CD: 20 sec
(Traited 17 sec – 10 Point in Soul Reaper, has to choose between this or Reduce Spectral Wall CD)
Fear: 1 s (1.5s traited)
Fear: Fear duration under 600 units 1.5 s (2.25s traited)

Spectral Wall – Utility
CD: 40 sec
(Traited 32 sec – 10 point in Soul Reaper, hast to choose between this or Reduce Doom CD)
Fear: 1 sec (Traited 1.5 sec)
Duration: 5 sec

Total:
With rune of Necromancer (20% fear), trait (50% fear) and full spite (30%): 7 sec chain
With rune of Nightmare (1s fear on hit – 5% chance), trait (50% fear) and full spite (30%): 6,3 sec chain – 1,8 sec proc

If you don´t have condition removal, break stun or can´t evade/dodge you are screwed.
But to bring all that, we need to use Rampage or Rabid amulet and we don’t have a good source of Life force wich turn us in easy kill if focused.

If in 2, 3 weeks we continue to see lot of OP Necro’s in meta, if think they can solve this by revisiting Spectral Wall and reducing Master of Terror trait.

Sorry for my English, it’s not my first language.

I wonder if people are using similar/same builds as what they were using prior to the patch. This would be a mistake in my opinion, since the meta prior to the patch was largely based on attrition – something Necros accel at, and can rip to shreds now with their improvements. For instance, prior to the patch I ran condis, with high toughness, high vigor, and a good deal of cleansing almost exclusively on my engi – I wanted to run a power rifle burst build but it felt too ineffective against so many attrition builds. Now I’m running a power roaming burst build with high mobility and a good amount of CC (KB/Immob) with my only cleanse coming from Healing Turret and the chill/cripple/immob removal from Rocket boots and I have had almost no issue destroying Necros. Why? Because Necros are still incredibly weak to CC and burst as well as still having kitten poor mobility. Would I want to run condi’s against them? Hell no! Nor should anyone else, since a condi Necro will always have the advantage in that fight.

In other words, things have changed and if you haven’t it’s probably a good idea to consider it.

Fear is w cc and condi. Condi cleanse and stun breaks both clear fear……ntm there’s runes with -% on stuns/condis almost erase fear.

Patch just came out. Guess no on ever played against a necro b4

When underrated builds get buffed, people try them out and realize how underrated they were and since it got buffed its even better than before, that’s the deal with necros.

uberkingkong.8041:

When underrated builds get buffed, people try them out and realize how underrated they were and since it got buffed its even better than before, that’s the deal with necros.

Just like DW axes for warriors like not many would play them in spvp. This patch did make it viable to them thanks to the buff whirling axe got. However the way it has to be build hitting like a train makes them very vulnerable to kill.

jcbroe.4329:

Maybe I’m missing something, but I swear I’m getting hit with 10x more fear with this patch than I ever have. Not sure if its a duration change or what, but I have a screen of what just happened to me:

You’re seeing more fear because necro got pigeon holed into going fear builds with the nerfs to certain traits and the change to spectral wall, they took skills/traits that made straight dps necros viable and changed them/nerfed them into the ground (25% chance to cause weakness on crit changed to weakness on crit for 5 seconds, 20 sec cd aka absolutely useless in every situation ever).

Tell ArenaNet to start paying attention to the game and realizing fear builds never had an issue, corrupt boon was balanced as it was (now it’s useless as well because bunkers stability is always covered by other boons so it’s never hit making them impossible to cc appropriately for necros now) and dps necro is significantly weaker, still viable but weaker in comparison because there’s no “3rd” trait for them to use in curses now, so you end up taking “fear causes damage” which they never took before and now do, thus the tons of fear damage now.