Guild Wars 2

imo tPvP / sPvP thiefs are not as good as WvW thiefs…

dont get me wrong they do their job very well (jumper for example) in tPvP and i would agree that it takes skill to play a thief in the higher skill lvls of tournament play but its in no way comparable to 1vsX that some thiefs do in WvW enviroment consistently.

Watch some Yishis videos for example

kittenzlenit.7648:

imo tPvP / sPvP thiefs are not as good as WvW thiefs…

dont get me wrong they do their job very well (jumper for example) in tPvP and i would agree that it takes skill to play a thief in the higher skill lvls of tournament play but its in no way comparable to 1vsX that some thiefs do in WvW enviroment consistently.

Watch some Yishis videos for example

LOL.

So you are saying that if someone in WvW can 1vsX then you can do that in 1vsX in SPvP?

1. WvW thief builds that can 1vX (specifically Yishi’s build) are built for survivability. Tournament thief builds/glass cannon builds are built to burst and kill single targets and/or provide DPS from the shortbow, not survivability.

They’re completely different. Take Yishi and his build and put it in a tournament setting and he would be near useless to the team.

I have no doubt that if you take any generic thief and give them Yishi’s build and spec, that they would be able to do exactly what he does after getting used to the build.

2. The average “skill level” of WvW players is pathetic compared to the “skill level” of high-level tournament players. Not to mention most of the players in WvW are just doing things half asleep because its so boring.

Speaking of builds, Zoe L’s build is built for 1v1’s and the fact that she wins 1v1 match ups is pretty much a given. Again, take any average thief, and give them her build and spec, and they will be able to do exactly what she does after getting used to the build.

Regarding the actual topic at hand, in my opinion, the best thief players are the ones that are in the best teams and win the most. At the end of the day, the game only knows winning or losing. How your team wins, or why your team wins is irrelevant, only the fact that your team wins, and the only difference between a good thief and a bad thief is how often their team wins, and who they win against.

Was going to keep quiet here cuz I generally have no opinions on thieves… But WvW more fun than sPvP. More dynamic more things to do and more things to look out for…The Skill level of WvW players is actually quite good because they never know who that red/blue guy coming up is… is he a thief? Is he a Mesmer or an Ele? You just don’t know… If you take a hardcore PvP player and put them in wvw then chances are they will suck because for whatever reason some of these people just refuse to experience the entirety of the game and are happy with having a bunch of level 2 players…. and the “High-level” (still laugh at that) tourney players are a small small population and high level thief players even more so while the WvW population has several good players. Many of which refuse to tPvP because they see it as a “care-bear” based pvp

stop saying bullkittens, WvW is kittening zerg vs zerg, it’s kittening easy and even a kitten could do wvw and win some 1v1, 1vX, just kitten off and stop saying things you don’t know. and they don’t do tPvP because they are noobs as hell. stfu.

Kultas Sunstrider.9218:

stop saying bullkittens, WvW is kittening zerg vs zerg, it’s kittening easy and even a kitten could do wvw and win some 1v1, 1vX, just kitten off and stop saying things you don’t know. and they don’t do tPvP because they are noobs as hell. stfu.

Yeah until you get into the dueling arenas that people go to for more skill based play (better build diversity more things to take into account)… Or trying to cap a camp solo AND fight off about 3 other people… Please yes the zerg is there but there are a lot of wvw players you are forgetting about the ones that back cap camps the ones that scout/report movements on other servers take out other roamers… 95% of my wvw (and other people) is done on a team of 5 Hardly ever do a keep… Instead if someone is doing a keep we say “let’s ninja this tower”. And have gotten told several times that I need to get a commanders tag… WvW is by far more popular and requires more communication across several players.

Jportell scroll up to the top of the screen. Click PvP discussion and then WvW discussion.

tPvP and WvW take different mindsets to play well. That said….I’m just imagining a WvW pro wandering into his first tournament… LOL. He’d get his care-bear handed back to him so fast.

ensoriki.5789:

Jportell scroll up to the top of the screen. Click PvP discussion and then WvW discussion.

I also PvP I’m one of those players that does it all… And I can speak from experience that WvW requires a different play style and in some situations more skill than PvP… I have fought many many thieves in wvw that I would consider to be amazing and would prolly wipe the floor with the Pvp people but they refuse to do it… And honestly it’s prolly because of attitudes like that guys… Everyone in PVP is just so elitist and lame.

real assassins stay in shadows…

jportell.2197:

ensoriki.5789:

Jportell scroll up to the top of the screen. Click PvP discussion and then WvW discussion.

I also PvP I’m one of those players that does it all… And I can speak from experience that WvW requires a different play style and in some situations more skill than PvP… I have fought many many thieves in wvw that I would consider to be amazing and would prolly wipe the floor with the Pvp people but they refuse to do it… And honestly it’s prolly because of attitudes like that guys… Everyone in PVP is just so elitist and lame.

you need more skill for spvp, i think www is pretty good but mostly real skilled pvp players don’t play it because you need to level up in pve in order to play it properly. rarely lose to thiefes in www, they lack experience and are easy to read.
spvp>>>>>>>>www

jportell.2197:

ensoriki.5789:

Jportell scroll up to the top of the screen. Click PvP discussion and then WvW discussion.

I also PvP I’m one of those players that does it all… And I can speak from experience that WvW requires a different play style and in some situations more skill than PvP… I have fought many many thieves in wvw that I would consider to be amazing and would prolly wipe the floor with the Pvp people but they refuse to do it… And honestly it’s prolly because of attitudes like that guys… Everyone in PVP is just so elitist and lame.

Wipe the floor with their food, ascended gear, and a million other buffs? No.

When you rely on said buffs and advantages, you have a cushion of stats to rely on. That is why it is inferior to spvp competitive play. You only rely on your skill there. It is just as bad as these Dungeon Masters in solo queue. Did they get the memo that enemy players are not the same as NPCs?

You cannot compare WvW pvp with Tpvp. I agree that it requires a different mindset but that is about it.

jportell.2197:

ensoriki.5789:

Jportell scroll up to the top of the screen. Click PvP discussion and then WvW discussion.

I also PvP I’m one of those players that does it all… And I can speak from experience that WvW requires a different play style and in some situations more skill than PvP… I have fought many many thieves in wvw that I would consider to be amazing and would prolly wipe the floor with the Pvp people but they refuse to do it… And honestly it’s prolly because of attitudes like that guys… Everyone in PVP is just so elitist and lame.

Who cares if you Spvp as well in this context?
This is Structured PvP discussion who gives a kitten how someone fares in WvW to that end? It’s not about elitism, it’s a clear derailing of the discussion into arbitrary WvW vs Spvp talk. How you fare in WvW and your skill within it is not directly correlating to playing Spvp, nor do your kills in either mode translate into direct prowess in the other.

Of course knowing you I fully expect ANOTHER post, further pressing on to this subject like you can’t get the hint. Come on. Do it. “Someone plays WvW so they are eligible for discussion of best Thief, when we are talking conquest”. Shall we throw the best PvE thief in here as well since we’re going off on crap that has no bearing to structured?

To the actual subject, it’s going to difficult for most to get an idea, because it’s hard to see most people playing even if they’re at the top since they may not necessarily stream, and you have to go against them all the time. The OP’s stuff has guys who haven’t played in a long while man, and other people you see here posted are from what EU and I’ve never heard of. Not to any fault of their own, but it’s not like it’s as easy to watch teams atm as it was in GW1. Would like to see some EU players since they’re constantly boasting themself vs NA.

wild bill is the best period if you would type in gw2 thief wild bill and watch his videos of wvw he does not just show the high lights he shows 15 min of streight video . he goesd 1v2 1v3 1v4 1v5 1v6 1v7 and he wins and most of the ones he fight out gear him how is that not the best please do not respond to my reply inless you have watched his videos

Zoe L is a cute japanese girl <3<3<3

ensoriki.5789:

jportell.2197:

ensoriki.5789:

Jportell scroll up to the top of the screen. Click PvP discussion and then WvW discussion.

I also PvP I’m one of those players that does it all… And I can speak from experience that WvW requires a different play style and in some situations more skill than PvP… I have fought many many thieves in wvw that I would consider to be amazing and would prolly wipe the floor with the Pvp people but they refuse to do it… And honestly it’s prolly because of attitudes like that guys… Everyone in PVP is just so elitist and lame.

Who cares if you Spvp as well in this context?
This is Structured PvP discussion who gives a kitten how someone fares in WvW to that end? It’s not about elitism, it’s a clear derailing of the discussion into arbitrary WvW vs Spvp talk. How you fare in WvW and your skill within it is not directly correlating to playing Spvp, nor do your kills in either mode translate into direct prowess in the other.

Of course knowing you I fully expect ANOTHER post, further pressing on to this subject like you can’t get the hint. Come on. Do it. “Someone plays WvW so they are eligible for discussion of best Thief, when we are talking conquest”. Shall we throw the best PvE thief in here as well since we’re going off on crap that has no bearing to structured?

To the actual subject, it’s going to difficult for most to get an idea, because it’s hard to see most people playing even if they’re at the top since they may not necessarily stream, and you have to go against them all the time. The OP’s stuff has guys who haven’t played in a long while man, and other people you see here posted are from what EU and I’ve never heard of. Not to any fault of their own, but it’s not like it’s as easy to watch teams atm as it was in GW1. Would like to see some EU players since they’re constantly boasting themself vs NA.

First of all my response was to a guy saying that “WvW doesn’t matter in any sense of skill at all because of x y and z” And I care to disagree there… 1st of all world v world gives you better build diversity plain and simple… Ascended gear has the same stats as accessories with exquisite jewels anything beyond that is AR for Fractals or a bonus to gold or some crap from mobs… So a lvl 80 in full exotics will be just fine against another level 80 that has ascended because in the end the stats are the same… One is just for “infusions”. So the best thief players and I am speaking from a WHOLE of PVP which is under the pvp discussion including wvw and spvp is not easy to surmise accurately in anyway because the population of people is much much larger there… Hence why I still feel that sPvP is nothing more than “I am the best because I am rank blah blah and on the leader boards and have this many qp and nothing else in this game matters” <Pretty much 90% of the crap people say here….. And I do not measure my skill in wvw based off of how many uplevels I instakill.. I base it off of duels against other players in WvW and the playing field is even because everyone maxes everything out possible… And it is quite apparent that sPvP is the least popular part of this game and the least funded… Does that bug me? No… This game has a whole lot to offer and people just seem to be content playing the same map Over and over and over… Doing the same conquest over and over and over… Pvp in WvW is by far better. And yup you got another post from me and I expect one from you in return butttt… My point is made so I bid good day.

if playing a thief in high levels of tPvP means being nothing more than a glass backstabber who gets around with shadow shot…..you can keep it.

Ill take WvW.

In terms of purely looking at a thief….I go with WvW. Anyone can program their mouse to do the combo.

Why you even feel the need to discuss WvW?! This is the sPvP-Area. GTFO

I am sorry but why is Steb not in this list?

In Spvp, (where in only matters), Steb has one of the best combat awareness in the game. His understanding of the class far surpass anyone on this list. At the very high end of this game, there is 1 thing that only matters, and that is team play. Dueling means nothing, however your reaction to situations is what matters when you play thief.

When you see Steb on the battle field he is not just there, you will feel the pain within seconds. His targeting, position is spot on for a thief. Honestly you can not even judge who the best thief right now, even when ladder comes out, it means nothing. Again mechanical and technical knowledge of the game makes you a great player. Not how high your MMR is. Ether way Steb is not just one of the greatest thief’s he is one of the best players of the game right now.

voting for caed n steb since jumper don’t play no more (coming from a rank 51 thief)

robert.3475:

wild bill is the best period if you would type in gw2 thief wild bill and watch his videos of wvw he does not just show the high lights he shows 15 min of streight video . he goesd 1v2 1v3 1v4 1v5 1v6 1v7 and he wins and most of the ones he fight out gear him how is that not the best please do not respond to my reply inless you have watched his videos

Robert, do you play a thief? probably not.
Let me explain to you why wild bill is far from a talented thief. The videos you are glorifying show him using a build that has nearly 2K toughness and 3k armour with literally almost 100% stealth uptime and heals/condition removals while in stealth. It is pistol/dagger condition bleed spam with literally just sneak attack and then reapply cloak and dagger. At the time of those videos stealth had not been nerfed to 4 secs and culling still existed in WvW. But most importantly, with that build there is almost ZERO risk to wild bill the entire time he is playing. The dmg he can take is considerable with the toughness/armor and the stealth being continually up allows him to easily regen health and condi removal. It is complete and total cheese. The only time you would even see his thief was for the 2 secs he came out of stealth with the stealth pistol opener of sneak attack.

As far as gear goes… he has a legendary pistol. He completely outgears many if not all of the ppl he kills in the video. Lastly, this is WvW. A place where food buffs and underlevel newbs roam wild. There is no level playing field there. You can literally be killing lvl 20’s that are being up-leveled. It is a joke. His build in spvp would be completely useless. It would not capture a point…it would not even contest a point…because it requires him to be in almost constant stealth.

And the final and most over-powered reason his videos are cheese…. in WvW there are thousands of NPC’s for him to stand near and CnD off of to reapply his attack on players. This is laughable. Most of his fights occur in strategic gank spots where he can use NPC’s as well as his opponents to ensure constant re-application and uptime of stealth.

That build is nearly unkillable. The thief has to literally go afk to die. I ran it for months in wvw. You could jump into entire 20 and 30 man zergs…and kill a person without even worrying. I admit it is fun… but it is the pinnacle of cheese.

He has a lot of spvp videos as well. And while it’s not as strong as heartseeker spam (zzzZZZzz), it’s still a pretty decent spvp build (pistol/dagger condi). I vote caed

Best thieves like best players in every other class are the ones who have a very good team behind…teamwork makes single players play good…if you have a bad team you can’t play good even if you’re supposed to be the best out here…no matter what if your team is bad you’re going to fail…thare are probably many many very good players around who can’t do much just because they haven’t a decent core team to play with..

Btw youtube videos aswell as streamings are pointless…there are very good ones who never made a video or a streaming…and there are really bad players streaming all day…

as an example….old but gold..

well…lol… this one is way worse than just “bad” 4:14 -__-

kittenzlenit.7648:

imo tPvP / sPvP thiefs are not as good as WvW thiefs…

dont get me wrong they do their job very well (jumper for example) in tPvP and i would agree that it takes skill to play a thief in the higher skill lvls of tournament play but its in no way comparable to 1vsX that some thiefs do in WvW enviroment consistently.

Watch some Yishis videos for example

lolled hard at this btw….really epic..even hotjoin thieves are better than zerg vs zerg’s ones..

Rome.3192:

voting for caed n steb since jumper don’t play no more (coming from a rank 51 thief)

Since 2 people said Steb, any one got a link to their twitch/youtube page? I know I’ve seen a couple videos of Caed before as well. Been looking into other higher ranked thief players to see what else I can pick up since I came back.

mursie.3681:

robert.3475:

wild bill is the best period if you would type in gw2 thief wild bill and watch his videos of wvw he does not just show the high lights he shows 15 min of streight video . he goesd 1v2 1v3 1v4 1v5 1v6 1v7 and he wins and most of the ones he fight out gear him how is that not the best please do not respond to my reply inless you have watched his videos

Robert, do you play a thief? probably not.
Let me explain to you why wild bill is far from a talented thief. The videos you are glorifying show him using a build that has nearly 2K toughness and 3k armour with literally almost 100% stealth uptime and heals/condition removals while in stealth. It is pistol/dagger condition bleed spam with literally just sneak attack and then reapply cloak and dagger. At the time of those videos stealth had not been nerfed to 4 secs and culling still existed in WvW. But most importantly, with that build there is almost ZERO risk to wild bill the entire time he is playing. The dmg he can take is considerable with the toughness/armor and the stealth being continually up allows him to easily regen health and condi removal. It is complete and total cheese. The only time you would even see his thief was for the 2 secs he came out of stealth with the stealth pistol opener of sneak attack.

As far as gear goes… he has a legendary pistol. He completely outgears many if not all of the ppl he kills in the video. Lastly, this is WvW. A place where food buffs and underlevel newbs roam wild. There is no level playing field there. You can literally be killing lvl 20’s that are being up-leveled. It is a joke. His build in spvp would be completely useless. It would not capture a point…it would not even contest a point…because it requires him to be in almost constant stealth.

And the final and most over-powered reason his videos are cheese…. in WvW there are thousands of NPC’s for him to stand near and CnD off of to reapply his attack on players. This is laughable. Most of his fights occur in strategic gank spots where he can use NPC’s as well as his opponents to ensure constant re-application and uptime of stealth.

That build is nearly unkillable. The thief has to literally go afk to die. I ran it for months in wvw. You could jump into entire 20 and 30 man zergs…and kill a person without even worrying. I admit it is fun… but it is the pinnacle of cheese.

Nothing against the guy, his WvW videos are entertaining. However, I was in a Niflhel match against him in hot join once just before the 3/26 patch. Didnt see him kill a single thing, not even me on my GC thief. Sure he only died once (that I know of, maybe twice), but I didnt see him actually get anyone downed either. At most, his playstyle was more of a nuisance with the chain CnD.

P/D works in sPvP, but I dont find it very effective myself. It might work against a Thief, or a Warrior (unless the Thief has something like Shadow’s Embrace), but really it’s just a stack of bleeds. One condi remover and it’s gone. It can work if you’re constantly doing Stealth > Sneak Attack, but not if you just sit there chaining CnD all day long. >.>

ariel.7614:

Who do you think is the best player?

I know about Caed and Jumper, not sure about the other two.

I totally respect Jumper, especially after playing with him today. His abilities on a thief are… Absolutely off the charts. He’s incredibly skilled.

Caed… Eh. Not so sure. People hype him up a lot and all, but I know that he runs burstier stuff, and I’m not sure I respect that so much. So. No clue.

Coming back to gw2 after a long period, dont know much about the new faces…

I remember a thief named RaMin…

Dont know if he still plays, but for sure was one of the best I’ve seen…

In EU I remember Lowell from supersquad….

I’m Jumper’s #1 fan due to his brilliance at the SOAC Thieves vs Guardians consolation match.

Arganthium.5638:

Caed… Eh. Not so sure. People hype him up a lot and all, but I know that he runs burstier stuff, and I’m not sure I respect that so much. So. No clue.

You shouldn’t disrespect a player’s level because of the build they run. The thing with burst thief is you should not be judging that thief’s skill level by how he can do a burst. I could teach anyone to do it in about a minute. What you should be judging that thief by is their positioning and their decision of WHEN to burst. Unfortunately these nuances go over a lot of people’s heads, and can be entirely missed by most in shoutcasts unless they are being directly spectated.

Positioning is very key for this build, and Caed does it well. Both him and Jumper are very good thieves.

There are a couple other NA thieves out there that are excellent as well, but aren’t as well known and thus don’t get as much love.

Arganthium.5638:

ariel.7614:

Who do you think is the best player?

I know about Caed and Jumper, not sure about the other two.

I totally respect Jumper, especially after playing with him today. His abilities on a thief are… Absolutely off the charts. He’s incredibly skilled.

Caed… Eh. Not so sure. People hype him up a lot and all, but I know that he runs burstier stuff, and I’m not sure I respect that so much. So. No clue.

On slow nights I join dueling games to waste time until I’m tired. It’s fun and I don’t take it seriously. I found myself in a game with Caed a couple weeks ago. He was dueling another thief and was destroying him. Caed’s burst is insane. I dueled him also and he beat me three times in a row. It seemed like he was unbeatable for a moment. But I won the 4th duel and he got really nasty. Then I beat him again after that and he turned into a total kitten. I went afk for a bit and came back dead to see that he neglected all other duels to just attack my afk character so he could feel good about himself. Not to mention he doesn’t /bow before a duel to give himself the advantage of opening up on someone who is still waiting to see the bow.

To be one of the best players you have to be dynamic. If you use the same strat each time to beat someone and they finally learn to counter it, it’s time to do something a little differently. He couldn’t change his playstyle in even the slightest so he lost again and turned into a jerk. Also, you have to know that there is always room for improvement. Take a loss as a sign that there are still things to improve upon. Anyone can learn a burst combo in a a minute as someone stated above me, that doesn’t make you a good player.

Pointless list when:
Everyone isn’t on the same server.
There is no decent way to measure success.
sPvP isn’t competitive.

It’s like who is the best at running 564 circles around 52 bricks laid in the form of a tic tac toe square? The question you should answer before answering that one is… Who cares?

Hot Boy.7138:

Arganthium.5638:

ariel.7614:

Who do you think is the best player?

I know about Caed and Jumper, not sure about the other two.

I totally respect Jumper, especially after playing with him today. His abilities on a thief are… Absolutely off the charts. He’s incredibly skilled.

Caed… Eh. Not so sure. People hype him up a lot and all, but I know that he runs burstier stuff, and I’m not sure I respect that so much. So. No clue.

On slow nights I join dueling games to waste time until I’m tired. It’s fun and I don’t take it seriously. I found myself in a game with Caed a couple weeks ago. He was dueling another thief and was destroying him. Caed’s burst is insane. I dueled him also and he beat me three times in a row. It seemed like he was unbeatable for a moment. But I won the 4th duel and he got really nasty. Then I beat him again after that and he turned into a total kitten. I went afk for a bit and came back dead to see that he neglected all other duels to just attack my afk character so he could feel good about himself. Not to mention he doesn’t /bow before a duel to give himself the advantage of opening up on someone who is still waiting to see the bow.

To be one of the best players you have to be dynamic. If you use the same strat each time to beat someone and they finally learn to counter it, it’s time to do something a little differently. He couldn’t change his playstyle in even the slightest so he lost again and turned into a jerk. Also, you have to know that there is always room for improvement. Take a loss as a sign that there are still things to improve upon. Anyone can learn a burst combo in a a minute as someone stated above me, that doesn’t make you a good player.

I remember you, I killed you around 20 times in a row and, then you used thieves guild until you finally got me, and then proceeded to kitten talk me when you were running a duelist build. Saying I attacked you when you were AFK is also a joke, since you initiated every duel.

I really couldn’t care less about what you personally think of me but going on a forums to talk kitten about someone is fairly pathetic. Anytime you want duels I’ll duel you, just PM me.

Cheers.

Kneru.8014:

Rome.3192:

voting for caed n steb since jumper don’t play no more (coming from a rank 51 thief)

Since 2 people said Steb, any one got a link to their twitch/youtube page? I know I’ve seen a couple videos of Caed before as well. Been looking into other higher ranked thief players to see what else I can pick up since I came back.

mursie.3681:

robert.3475:

wild bill is the best period if you would type in gw2 thief wild bill and watch his videos of wvw he does not just show the high lights he shows 15 min of streight video . he goesd 1v2 1v3 1v4 1v5 1v6 1v7 and he wins and most of the ones he fight out gear him how is that not the best please do not respond to my reply inless you have watched his videos

Robert, do you play a thief? probably not.
Let me explain to you why wild bill is far from a talented thief. The videos you are glorifying show him using a build that has nearly 2K toughness and 3k armour with literally almost 100% stealth uptime and heals/condition removals while in stealth. It is pistol/dagger condition bleed spam with literally just sneak attack and then reapply cloak and dagger. At the time of those videos stealth had not been nerfed to 4 secs and culling still existed in WvW. But most importantly, with that build there is almost ZERO risk to wild bill the entire time he is playing. The dmg he can take is considerable with the toughness/armor and the stealth being continually up allows him to easily regen health and condi removal. It is complete and total cheese. The only time you would even see his thief was for the 2 secs he came out of stealth with the stealth pistol opener of sneak attack.

As far as gear goes… he has a legendary pistol. He completely outgears many if not all of the ppl he kills in the video. Lastly, this is WvW. A place where food buffs and underlevel newbs roam wild. There is no level playing field there. You can literally be killing lvl 20’s that are being up-leveled. It is a joke. His build in spvp would be completely useless. It would not capture a point…it would not even contest a point…because it requires him to be in almost constant stealth.

And the final and most over-powered reason his videos are cheese…. in WvW there are thousands of NPC’s for him to stand near and CnD off of to reapply his attack on players. This is laughable. Most of his fights occur in strategic gank spots where he can use NPC’s as well as his opponents to ensure constant re-application and uptime of stealth.

That build is nearly unkillable. The thief has to literally go afk to die. I ran it for months in wvw. You could jump into entire 20 and 30 man zergs…and kill a person without even worrying. I admit it is fun… but it is the pinnacle of cheese.

Nothing against the guy, his WvW videos are entertaining. However, I was in a Niflhel match against him in hot join once just before the 3/26 patch. Didnt see him kill a single thing, not even me on my GC thief. Sure he only died once (that I know of, maybe twice), but I didnt see him actually get anyone downed either. At most, his playstyle was more of a nuisance with the chain CnD.

P/D works in sPvP, but I dont find it very effective myself. It might work against a Thief, or a Warrior (unless the Thief has something like Shadow’s Embrace), but really it’s just a stack of bleeds. One condi remover and it’s gone. It can work if you’re constantly doing Stealth > Sneak Attack, but not if you just sit there chaining CnD all day long. >.>

came here to post something along these lines. he is a wvw hero, a step below a hit join hero. I have never seen him post a competitive tourney match vid because his spec is horrid for it.

Narcarsis.5739:

Hot Boy.7138:

Arganthium.5638:

ariel.7614:

Who do you think is the best player?

I know about Caed and Jumper, not sure about the other two.

I totally respect Jumper, especially after playing with him today. His abilities on a thief are… Absolutely off the charts. He’s incredibly skilled.

Caed… Eh. Not so sure. People hype him up a lot and all, but I know that he runs burstier stuff, and I’m not sure I respect that so much. So. No clue.

On slow nights I join dueling games to waste time until I’m tired. It’s fun and I don’t take it seriously. I found myself in a game with Caed a couple weeks ago. He was dueling another thief and was destroying him. Caed’s burst is insane. I dueled him also and he beat me three times in a row. It seemed like he was unbeatable for a moment. But I won the 4th duel and he got really nasty. Then I beat him again after that and he turned into a total kitten. I went afk for a bit and came back dead to see that he neglected all other duels to just attack my afk character so he could feel good about himself. Not to mention he doesn’t /bow before a duel to give himself the advantage of opening up on someone who is still waiting to see the bow.

To be one of the best players you have to be dynamic. If you use the same strat each time to beat someone and they finally learn to counter it, it’s time to do something a little differently. He couldn’t change his playstyle in even the slightest so he lost again and turned into a jerk. Also, you have to know that there is always room for improvement. Take a loss as a sign that there are still things to improve upon. Anyone can learn a burst combo in a a minute as someone stated above me, that doesn’t make you a good player.

I remember you, I killed you around 20 times in a row and, then you used thieves guild until you finally got me, and then proceeded to kitten talk me when you were running a duelist build. Saying I attacked you when you were AFK is also a joke, since you initiated every duel.

I really couldn’t care less about what you personally think of me but going on a forums to talk kitten about someone is fairly pathetic. Anytime you want duels I’ll duel you, just PM me.

Cheers.

How many people do you have this same problem with? I never used thieve’s guild. I don’t even have a thief. I just tell it like it is. This was my experience playing with you and that’s all there is to it. Also, in my entire time playing this game since launch, I’ve never talked kitten to anyone ever in an spvp game or over a duel, or a match, or anything pvp related. That’s beneath me.

Hot Boy.7138:

Narcarsis.5739:

Hot Boy.7138:

Arganthium.5638:

ariel.7614:

Who do you think is the best player?

I know about Caed and Jumper, not sure about the other two.

I totally respect Jumper, especially after playing with him today. His abilities on a thief are… Absolutely off the charts. He’s incredibly skilled.

Caed… Eh. Not so sure. People hype him up a lot and all, but I know that he runs burstier stuff, and I’m not sure I respect that so much. So. No clue.

On slow nights I join dueling games to waste time until I’m tired. It’s fun and I don’t take it seriously. I found myself in a game with Caed a couple weeks ago. He was dueling another thief and was destroying him. Caed’s burst is insane. I dueled him also and he beat me three times in a row. It seemed like he was unbeatable for a moment. But I won the 4th duel and he got really nasty. Then I beat him again after that and he turned into a total kitten. I went afk for a bit and came back dead to see that he neglected all other duels to just attack my afk character so he could feel good about himself. Not to mention he doesn’t /bow before a duel to give himself the advantage of opening up on someone who is still waiting to see the bow.

To be one of the best players you have to be dynamic. If you use the same strat each time to beat someone and they finally learn to counter it, it’s time to do something a little differently. He couldn’t change his playstyle in even the slightest so he lost again and turned into a jerk. Also, you have to know that there is always room for improvement. Take a loss as a sign that there are still things to improve upon. Anyone can learn a burst combo in a a minute as someone stated above me, that doesn’t make you a good player.

I remember you, I killed you around 20 times in a row and, then you used thieves guild until you finally got me, and then proceeded to kitten talk me when you were running a duelist build. Saying I attacked you when you were AFK is also a joke, since you initiated every duel.

I really couldn’t care less about what you personally think of me but going on a forums to talk kitten about someone is fairly pathetic. Anytime you want duels I’ll duel you, just PM me.

Cheers.

How many people do you have this same problem with? I never used thieve’s guild. I don’t even have a thief. I just tell it like it is. This was my experience playing with you and that’s all there is to it. Also, in my entire time playing this game since launch, I’ve never talked kitten to anyone ever in an spvp game or over a duel, or a match, or anything pvp related. That’s beneath me.

The irony of this is astounding.

Nettle.9025:

Arganthium.5638:

Caed… Eh. Not so sure. People hype him up a lot and all, but I know that he runs burstier stuff, and I’m not sure I respect that so much. So. No clue.

You shouldn’t disrespect a player’s level because of the build they run. The thing with burst thief is you should not be judging that thief’s skill level by how he can do a burst. I could teach anyone to do it in about a minute. What you should be judging that thief by is their positioning and their decision of WHEN to burst. Unfortunately these nuances go over a lot of people’s heads, and can be entirely missed by most in shoutcasts unless they are being directly spectated.

Positioning is very key for this build, and Caed does it well. Both him and Jumper are very good thieves.

There are a couple other NA thieves out there that are excellent as well, but aren’t as well known and thus don’t get as much love.

Oh, this was the conundrum that I was referring to. There are two levels of play: buildcrafting and actually playing. I know that he’s very well-known for his play, but his build is a bit… Not something that I’d agree with. That’s why I’m honestly not sure what to think of him; I haven’t seen enough of his use of the build to be able to judge how good a player overall he is.

So, /shrug. Burst builds, to me, are more of a tool that has somewhat mediocre theoretical use, but is very good in practice. But, like you said, it depends on how you play it, and the more skilled you are with a burst build, the more and more correct it will be as you increase your skill level. I just don’t think that its skill ceiling (skill cap) is as high as some other builds out there.

Hot Boy.7138:

On slow nights I join dueling games to waste time until I’m tired. It’s fun and I don’t take it seriously. I found myself in a game with Caed a couple weeks ago. He was dueling another thief and was destroying him. Caed’s burst is insane. I dueled him also and he beat me three times in a row. It seemed like he was unbeatable for a moment. But I won the 4th duel and he got really nasty. Then I beat him again after that and he turned into a total kitten. I went afk for a bit and came back dead to see that he neglected all other duels to just attack my afk character so he could feel good about himself. Not to mention he doesn’t /bow before a duel to give himself the advantage of opening up on someone who is still waiting to see the bow.

To be one of the best players you have to be dynamic. If you use the same strat each time to beat someone and they finally learn to counter it, it’s time to do something a little differently. He couldn’t change his playstyle in even the slightest so he lost again and turned into a jerk. Also, you have to know that there is always room for improvement. Take a loss as a sign that there are still things to improve upon. Anyone can learn a burst combo in a a minute as someone stated above me, that doesn’t make you a good player.

I think that Caed already well addressed your QQ’ing, but I honestly have to ask you why this was your response to my comment. I said something about not being sure about Caed’s total skill level and apparently that was a good justification for you to start going into your tragic story about how Caed was rude to you… Or not, by what I’ve been hearing.

I liked Rainythief, his very instructional videos, which showed great skill and knowledge, were really good back in the day, I don’t really know if he still plays today. He was very comunicative and open to feedback about his builds also.
Maybe my criteria may differ from most of you, but that’s what I consider a very competent player.

Jumper plays a full initiative regen Flanking Strike spam build, a very ‘forgivable’ build with high initiative, evasion uptime and lots of stun breaks. I almost never see him time any dodges, his FS spam just does it for him; if stunned, infil. strike back; if low HP, withdraw and disengage; screwed up therefore low initiative? just weapon swap or roll for initiative…
Those kind of builds that provide you a toy for every mistake or every occasion make the player using that build hard to judge to be quite honest. I’m not saying he’s not skilled at all, he may as well be extremely good if he’s up there.
His teamplay may be remarkable, but is that what really makes a better thief than others? That would be an honest question, but in that case, we should judge individual thieves based on team coposition, although that would be all over the place.

For that very reason I find very hard to find an outstanding Mesmer, for example.

I don’t really know how Caed plays.

(i forgot to quote you when replying to this Arganthium)

I wanted to properly reply to what you said but I guess I went in a different direction. I wouldn’t call it a tragic story, i don’t take these things seriously. I was just surprised to see his name being listed as one of the best thieves. Well, even though Caed’s burst is definitely insane, I wouldn’t consider him someone playing at a high skill level because his playstyle seemed static to me. In my opinion being dynamic is important in pvp. I respect everyone’s build, whether it be glass canon all burst or bunker; so even though I respect his build, I wouldn’t call him one of the best thieves in the game because he seemed very predictable. Knowing a burst combo isn’t the same to me as being incredibly skilled.

Hot Boy.7138:

(i forgot to quote you when replying to this Arganthium)

I wanted to properly reply to what you said but I guess I went in a different direction. I wouldn’t call it a tragic story, i don’t take these things seriously. I was just surprised to see his name being listed as one of the best thieves. Well, even though Caed’s burst is definitely insane, I wouldn’t consider him someone playing at a high skill level because his playstyle seemed static to me. In my opinion being dynamic is important in pvp. I respect everyone’s build, whether it be glass canon all burst or bunker; so even though I respect his build, I wouldn’t call him one of the best thieves in the game because he seemed very predictable. Knowing a burst combo isn’t the same to me as being incredibly skilled.

Caed is extremely dynamic; he borrows from the short-term elements of a fight to create a long-term advantage. He uses specific combos at the correct time to wedge a large advantageous gap in his opponents. He has his cooldowns, positioning, and mobility mastered so that, in the long run, he can hurt the enemy team and reduce their health pools greatly. My main issue with his playstyle is that, while dynamic, he actually, contrary to what you said, doesn’t seem to take enough advantage of static advantages. That’s why I run builds that tend to look something like 0/0/X/X/X (although my current build doesn’t reflect this pattern; their’s 10 in DA, but none in CS). My playstyle focuses on abusing dynamic advantages to create long-term static advantages. Caed’s playstyle focuses on using dynamic advantages to create more dynamic advantages, and that’s where I think that his playstyle ultimately falters. He can’t use a small advantage to destroy opponents; he has to use large ones. Of course, large advantages are better than smaller ones, but smaller ones tend to be more safely secured and, in the long run, still have the same effect that larger advantages have. Furthermore, Caed’s very dynamic play allows him to create very large advantages very quickly, but at the cost of allowing his enemies to do the same to him.

That’s not to say that dynamic play isn’t important; it is, and in order to gain static advantages, you need to abuse dynamic opportunities. If anything, Caed is far too dynamic and not static enough.

Arganthium.5638:

Hot Boy.7138:

(i forgot to quote you when replying to this Arganthium)

I wanted to properly reply to what you said but I guess I went in a different direction. I wouldn’t call it a tragic story, i don’t take these things seriously. I was just surprised to see his name being listed as one of the best thieves. Well, even though Caed’s burst is definitely insane, I wouldn’t consider him someone playing at a high skill level because his playstyle seemed static to me. In my opinion being dynamic is important in pvp. I respect everyone’s build, whether it be glass canon all burst or bunker; so even though I respect his build, I wouldn’t call him one of the best thieves in the game because he seemed very predictable. Knowing a burst combo isn’t the same to me as being incredibly skilled.

Caed is extremely dynamic; he borrows from the short-term elements of a fight to create a long-term advantage. He uses specific combos at the correct time to wedge a large advantageous gap in his opponents. He has his cooldowns, positioning, and mobility mastered so that, in the long run, he can hurt the enemy team and reduce their health pools greatly. My main issue with his playstyle is that, while dynamic, he actually, contrary to what you said, doesn’t seem to take enough advantage of static advantages. That’s why I run builds that tend to look something like 0/0/X/X/X (although my current build doesn’t reflect this pattern; their’s 10 in DA, but none in CS). My playstyle focuses on abusing dynamic advantages to create long-term static advantages. Caed’s playstyle focuses on using dynamic advantages to create more dynamic advantages, and that’s where I think that his playstyle ultimately falters. He can’t use a small advantage to destroy opponents; he has to use large ones. Of course, large advantages are better than smaller ones, but smaller ones tend to be more safely secured and, in the long run, still have the same effect that larger advantages have. Furthermore, Caed’s very dynamic play allows him to create very large advantages very quickly, but at the cost of allowing his enemies to do the same to him.

That’s not to say that dynamic play isn’t important; it is, and in order to gain static advantages, you need to abuse dynamic opportunities. If anything, Caed is far too dynamic and not static enough.

WHOAAAA dude.. easy. Come up for air before you choke on that!! holy cow!

mursie.3681:

Arganthium.5638:

Hot Boy.7138:

(i forgot to quote you when replying to this Arganthium)

I wanted to properly reply to what you said but I guess I went in a different direction. I wouldn’t call it a tragic story, i don’t take these things seriously. I was just surprised to see his name being listed as one of the best thieves. Well, even though Caed’s burst is definitely insane, I wouldn’t consider him someone playing at a high skill level because his playstyle seemed static to me. In my opinion being dynamic is important in pvp. I respect everyone’s build, whether it be glass canon all burst or bunker; so even though I respect his build, I wouldn’t call him one of the best thieves in the game because he seemed very predictable. Knowing a burst combo isn’t the same to me as being incredibly skilled.

Caed is extremely dynamic; he borrows from the short-term elements of a fight to create a long-term advantage. He uses specific combos at the correct time to wedge a large advantageous gap in his opponents. He has his cooldowns, positioning, and mobility mastered so that, in the long run, he can hurt the enemy team and reduce their health pools greatly. My main issue with his playstyle is that, while dynamic, he actually, contrary to what you said, doesn’t seem to take enough advantage of static advantages. That’s why I run builds that tend to look something like 0/0/X/X/X (although my current build doesn’t reflect this pattern; their’s 10 in DA, but none in CS). My playstyle focuses on abusing dynamic advantages to create long-term static advantages. Caed’s playstyle focuses on using dynamic advantages to create more dynamic advantages, and that’s where I think that his playstyle ultimately falters. He can’t use a small advantage to destroy opponents; he has to use large ones. Of course, large advantages are better than smaller ones, but smaller ones tend to be more safely secured and, in the long run, still have the same effect that larger advantages have. Furthermore, Caed’s very dynamic play allows him to create very large advantages very quickly, but at the cost of allowing his enemies to do the same to him.

That’s not to say that dynamic play isn’t important; it is, and in order to gain static advantages, you need to abuse dynamic opportunities. If anything, Caed is far too dynamic and not static enough.

WHOAAAA dude.. easy. Come up for air before you choke on that!! holy cow!

lol

I have a tendency to overkill. -_-

Arganthium.5638:

Hot Boy.7138:

(i forgot to quote you when replying to this Arganthium)

I wanted to properly reply to what you said but I guess I went in a different direction. I wouldn’t call it a tragic story, i don’t take these things seriously. I was just surprised to see his name being listed as one of the best thieves. Well, even though Caed’s burst is definitely insane, I wouldn’t consider him someone playing at a high skill level because his playstyle seemed static to me. In my opinion being dynamic is important in pvp. I respect everyone’s build, whether it be glass canon all burst or bunker; so even though I respect his build, I wouldn’t call him one of the best thieves in the game because he seemed very predictable. Knowing a burst combo isn’t the same to me as being incredibly skilled.

Caed is extremely dynamic; he borrows from the short-term elements of a fight to create a long-term advantage. He uses specific combos at the correct time to wedge a large advantageous gap in his opponents. He has his cooldowns, positioning, and mobility mastered so that, in the long run, he can hurt the enemy team and reduce their health pools greatly. My main issue with his playstyle is that, while dynamic, he actually, contrary to what you said, doesn’t seem to take enough advantage of static advantages. That’s why I run builds that tend to look something like 0/0/X/X/X (although my current build doesn’t reflect this pattern; their’s 10 in DA, but none in CS). My playstyle focuses on abusing dynamic advantages to create long-term static advantages. Caed’s playstyle focuses on using dynamic advantages to create more dynamic advantages, and that’s where I think that his playstyle ultimately falters. He can’t use a small advantage to destroy opponents; he has to use large ones. Of course, large advantages are better than smaller ones, but smaller ones tend to be more safely secured and, in the long run, still have the same effect that larger advantages have. Furthermore, Caed’s very dynamic play allows him to create very large advantages very quickly, but at the cost of allowing his enemies to do the same to him.

That’s not to say that dynamic play isn’t important; it is, and in order to gain static advantages, you need to abuse dynamic opportunities. If anything, Caed is far too dynamic and not static enough.

Like I said before, I’m just saying what my experience playing with him was like.

Khenzy.9348:

Jumper plays a full initiative regen Flanking Strike spam build, a very ‘forgivable’ build with high initiative, evasion uptime and lots of stun breaks. I almost never see him time any dodges, his FS spam just does it for him; if stunned, infil. strike back; if low HP, withdraw and disengage; screwed up therefore low initiative? just weapon swap or roll for initiative…

While I do agree that my build involves a bit less reactionary play than d/p for damage mitigation, it’s more of a rhythmic thing. The reasoning for FS>LS+Dodge is to try to minimize the amount of time I’m vulnerable while keeping as much pressure as I can. Ofcourse, to avoid a big hit I have the option to (and I like to think I usually do when necessary) break my rhythm if needed.

For example, when training an Engie or Necro, I generally try to time start my rotation (FS+LSDodge) as soon as a Mark or Grenade comes out so I evade it. Ofcourse, this doesn’t line up perfectly and there’s also the factor of good players will try to wait out the evade frames and aim for when you are vulnerable (during the damage portion). At this point it pretty much becomes a mind game of how well I can stagger my strikes, or rather how predictably I play.

I don’t claim to be amazing at it or anything, this build has only been around for about two weeks. When I first started playing it Caed would beat me like 9/10 duels. Now we have extremely close outcomes which usually end up being a 1 blind or 1 daze difference (see my youtube).

Arganthium.5638:

Caed is extremely dynamic; he borrows from the short-term elements of a fight to create a long-term advantage. He uses specific combos at the correct time to wedge a large advantageous gap in his opponents. He has his cooldowns, positioning, and mobility mastered so that, in the long run, he can hurt the enemy team and reduce their health pools greatly. My main issue with his playstyle is that, while dynamic, he actually, contrary to what you said, doesn’t seem to take enough advantage of static advantages. That’s why I run builds that tend to look something like 0/0/X/X/X (although my current build doesn’t reflect this pattern; their’s 10 in DA, but none in CS). My playstyle focuses on abusing dynamic advantages to create long-term static advantages. Caed’s playstyle focuses on using dynamic advantages to create more dynamic advantages, and that’s where I think that his playstyle ultimately falters. He can’t use a small advantage to destroy opponents; he has to use large ones. Of course, large advantages are better than smaller ones, but smaller ones tend to be more safely secured and, in the long run, still have the same effect that larger advantages have. Furthermore, Caed’s very dynamic play allows him to create very large advantages very quickly, but at the cost of allowing his enemies to do the same to him.

That’s not to say that dynamic play isn’t important; it is, and in order to gain static advantages, you need to abuse dynamic opportunities. If anything, Caed is far too dynamic and not static enough.

Always looking for criticism. Thank you.

Narcarsis.5739:

Arganthium.5638:

Caed is extremely dynamic; he borrows from the short-term elements of a fight to create a long-term advantage. He uses specific combos at the correct time to wedge a large advantageous gap in his opponents. He has his cooldowns, positioning, and mobility mastered so that, in the long run, he can hurt the enemy team and reduce their health pools greatly. My main issue with his playstyle is that, while dynamic, he actually, contrary to what you said, doesn’t seem to take enough advantage of static advantages. That’s why I run builds that tend to look something like 0/0/X/X/X (although my current build doesn’t reflect this pattern; their’s 10 in DA, but none in CS). My playstyle focuses on abusing dynamic advantages to create long-term static advantages. Caed’s playstyle focuses on using dynamic advantages to create more dynamic advantages, and that’s where I think that his playstyle ultimately falters. He can’t use a small advantage to destroy opponents; he has to use large ones. Of course, large advantages are better than smaller ones, but smaller ones tend to be more safely secured and, in the long run, still have the same effect that larger advantages have. Furthermore, Caed’s very dynamic play allows him to create very large advantages very quickly, but at the cost of allowing his enemies to do the same to him.

That’s not to say that dynamic play isn’t important; it is, and in order to gain static advantages, you need to abuse dynamic opportunities. If anything, Caed is far too dynamic and not static enough.

Always looking for criticism. Thank you.

For once in my life, I am conflicted between understanding whether something that I just read is sarcasm or is actually sincere.

Assuming it’s sincere, no problem. But that’s just my point of view. It’s also probably a bit restricted by my addiction to chess, which has certainly had a large impact on how I view strategy and tactics.

ariel.7614:

Hi everyone.
I would like to show you some videos, of the best Thief players I’ve ever seen.

Jumper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9_UR1dCoT8

Zoe L
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8GnwgrCoek

Caed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6Rpac2ywh0

Seba Z
http://www.youtube.com/user/pigiaduroitastini

Who do you think is the best player?

Carried by broken class

Carried by broken class

Carried by broken class

Carried by broken class

I’m sure they think it’s skill. To each his/her own.

XII.9401:

ariel.7614:

Hi everyone.
I would like to show you some videos, of the best Thief players I’ve ever seen.

Jumper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9_UR1dCoT8

Zoe L
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8GnwgrCoek

Caed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6Rpac2ywh0

Seba Z
http://www.youtube.com/user/pigiaduroitastini

Who do you think is the best player?

Carried by broken class

Carried by broken class

Carried by broken class

Carried by broken class

I’m sure they think it’s skill. To each his/her own.

Lol.

Yes, eles require so much skill- I mean, how can they possibly find a good build to play? It’s not like their forum is littered with them, right? And attunement swaps? Man, it must be pretty darned difficult to figure out when you need a lotta offense, a little offense, a little defense, and a lotta defense.

Engis? I mean, wow; spamming conditions, grenades, or the same combo over and over and over again must take a lot of skill.

Guards totally take a lot of skill too. I mean, they have to learn how to use (gasps) melee weapons!!! And then, and then- they have to support their team!!! So difficult!!!

Mes… Oh man, you have to, like, control your weapon skills and your illusions at the same time (which are mostly autonomous anyways). Impossible.

Necros must have a very difficult time figuring out how to make condition builds or minion masters.

Rangers must have a difficult time with their infinite health regeneration and approximately two played builds.

And warriors? Who could figure out how to play a bread-and-butter class like them?

But thieves? Psh, no skill required there. I mean, it’s not like they have to balance low defensive pools with good offense, or manage their initiative wisely. It’s not like there are a plethora of different, all equally viable thief builds. It’s not like they have to learn how to blind and evade others at the right time or face annihilation. It’s not like that “lol permastealth” actually happens to be very counterable, and that stealth in general doesn’t last very long (except on SR), and that thief movements in stealth are, like, predictable or something. It’s not like our class which is infamous for being so easily able to escape also suffers from major point loss whenever we try to run away.

The point is not that we’re the most difficult class to play, but that calling thieves- and these thieves especially- unskilled is absolutely kittening stupid.

XII.9401:

ariel.7614:

Hi everyone.
I would like to show you some videos, of the best Thief players I’ve ever seen.

Jumper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9_UR1dCoT8

Zoe L
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8GnwgrCoek

Caed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6Rpac2ywh0

Seba Z
http://www.youtube.com/user/pigiaduroitastini

Who do you think is the best player?

Carried by broken class

Carried by broken class

Carried by broken class

Carried by broken class

I’m sure they think it’s skill. To each his/her own.

If you had said “Carried by competent teammates” I would have agreed with you. In tpvp the thief has a team that carries him so he can 1 shot… or you have never heard of that thief.