Guild Wars 2

As an avid WvWer on Maguuma, I often get bugged as to why I don’t go into SPvP more frequently.

My answer: I don’t enjoy seeing the same builds repeatedly, I feel my character progression means nothing and most importantly — I feel myself pigeonholed when build crafting by limited armor choices.

I think by allowing players to sync their PvE char with their PvP char — so that armors and skins from the one side were coppied to the next — more people would come back to SPvP on a regular basis.

I don’t think most would even mind a price charge for the service, but if one thinks about it, it should allow better balance, it should make things more interesting and in reality, the grind for skins is quite similar in each mode, so it isn’t unfair to ‘Skinheads’ :P.

Anet, is this something you’ll work on or consider? For now, too many people think your premiere PvP mode is basic.

Good idea. I do think it’s important to let people somehow progress through SPvP and skins being universal would definitely bring more people to SPvP. I remember the stated goal was to have cosmetic progression so why not give us multiple ways to progress?

There’s no need to bring WvW players into sPvP. WvW players are already on the darkside so they’re better off in WvW.

I do think sPvP players could use more stat combinations though.

Thanks for the responses guys. I hope ANET considers this. I myself feel pidgeonholed into certain things in SPvP and it keeps me out of the game mode.

Isaac- Lol :p I’m a WvW player, but I think a lot of us roamers really have certain aspects of SPvP at heart.

the thing that would most benefit spvp would actually be fewer stat combination, or even no additional stats at all (only from trait line). there are too many glass cannons and bunkers with nothing in between being nearly as viable.

devs rightly limited the stat combos in pvp, but in my opinion they haven’t gone far enough. but even so, this game’s pvp is pretty far out in the sea of bad pvp, so i suppose if they wanted to casualize it even further they could allow all pve stat combos.

milo.6942:

the thing that would most benefit spvp would actually be fewer stat combination, or even no additional stats at all (only from trait line). there are too many glass cannons and bunkers with nothing in between being nearly as viable.

devs rightly limited the stat combos in pvp, but in my opinion they haven’t gone far enough. but even so, this game’s pvp is pretty far out in the sea of bad pvp, so i suppose if they wanted to casualize it even further they could allow all pve stat combos.

Perhaps you should try this game (can’t remember the name…) where you can select between two choices: the offensive white army or the more defensive black army.

Anyhow, personally I think they should just make everyone play warrior with steady weapons and no weapon swap.

Well at least I feel like people think its acceptable.

The thing about limiting people to one or two sets of viable stats is it makes your build combos quite limited. Certain builds simply work MUCH better with certain gear choices.

I’ve seen some incredible builds stitched together with a piece here, a piece there. The stats afforded by the gear allowed people to select certain traits which made a neat build.

I think they should add PvP-unique skins that can only be acquired through s/tPvP.

They should also do something similar with WvW. WvW-unique skins that can only be acquired through WvW.

While I agree, this was more about the build diversity and stats than it was about the overall skins. Thanks for the comment Reikou

Nothing is going to bring wvwers to spvp except new pvp devs that actually listen to the playerbase. Anyone who wants to play this terrible node capture mode already is.

I can’t tell if this is about skins or builds/stats....

...WvW stats in sPvP will never happen...

I honestly don’t mind if they got to use their skins. I think finishers and titles are the main rewards anyways.

But the number of wvw’s not sPvP’ing just because of their gear skins is probably pretty small....so I don’t think it would change much.

Guys…guys…our beloved devs have already said they are working on that. After a year they realized rewards in spvp are bad so hopefully in 2014 or so we will see some changes. But tbh i believe if the pvp aspect of this game was more balanced we would see much more players in spvp, but ye this isn’t probably true for wvw players, since wvw is even worse than spvp and they are not looking for a balanced game experience (except for those brave -or reckless- roamers trying to fight against huge zergs).

Clap.1507:

I can’t tell if this is about skins or builds/stats….

…WvW stats in sPvP will never happen…

I honestly don’t mind if they got to use their skins. I think finishers and titles are the main rewards anyways.

But the number of wvw’s not sPvP’ing just because of their gear skins is probably pretty small….so I don’t think it would change much.

This is about stats mostly. Why will it never happen? List reasons and logical thinking behind it.

Most people have agreed that advanced build making would be beneficial to SPvP.

Go back to wvw lol

I do both and the reason the wvw doesn’t come into spvp is because we will kill them. Most of them can follow a dot, but when it comes to combat are crap without there armies. It is the reason spvpers often make small groups to roam wvw to trash the noobs.

I mean many pop in to hot join for the daily, but idk if that is really what anyone wants is a higher hotjoin pop. Let alone if it should spill over into tpvp anymore than it already does.

lastly I don’t think taking value away from time and effort of the real tpvpers spvpers in spvp would have any positive effects on its players.

Thesilentflute.8761:

Go back to wvw lol

I do both and the reason the wvw don’t come into spvp is because we will kill them. Most of them can follow a dot but when it comes to combat are crap without there armies. It is the reason spvpers often make small groups to roam wvw to trash the noobs.

I mean many pop in to hot join for the daily, but idk if that is really what anyone wants is a higher hotjoin pop. Let alone if it should spill over into tpvp anymore than it already does.

lastly I don’t think taking value away from time and effort of the real tpvpers spvpers in spvp would have any positive effects on its players.

Please don’t tell people to “Go back to WvW lol”. I think it’s about time SPvP stopped sucking so WvW roamers can actually go to the place that was originally intended for PvP. There are still many people in sPvP, yes, but a huge chunk of others tried it when the game came out, were disappointed at the lack of choices then thought they’d roam while they waited for a major update to sPvP like the topic starter mentioned. An update that has yet to happen.

I do spvp more then wvw but I do agree with you. There is no build diversity. I am forced to run a spirit build for tourney pvp and forced into condition specs on pretty much every class. This is stupid and should be addressed.

Also, it would be nice to have different game types. That would also address diversity, as many builds that work for hold the point wouldn’t work for another game type.

You don’t have to do anything you don’t want to If your talking about min maxing there can only be one. You should try not being a sheep.

Thesilentflute.8761:

You don’t have to do anything you don’t want to If your talking about min maxing there can only be one. You should try not being a sheep.

As per this and your last message in regards to calling me a ‘dot following’ sheep, I must say: trolls need not troll.

If you have something constructive to add to the discussion, I encourage you to leave it. If you disagree, explain why and end it there.

Please don’t call people you don’t know out on things you yourself very may well be guilty of.

As per myself, I’m strictly a small teams roamer on Maguuma. I’m in FEAR and my name is Tormentum Nex. Look me up, I promise I’m not a bad fighter. I’d be happy to duel.

The reality of this in my eyes:

Build diversity is good.

Allowing people to pick their own combination of stats to augment a build allows diversity.

Therefore, allowing people to pick the stats on each piece of gear is good.

This is my logic.. Lol. If you disagree, leave it at that. Thanks

Death match would being WvWers, there are some outstanding players in WvW that do it just for the fights and roaming. Conquest boring is about as boring as pvdoor.

I don’t see what’s wrong with using world vs. world for roaming, which is basically deathmatch, and structured PvP for conquest, which is theoretically way easier to balance.

Reikou.7068:

I think they should add PvP-unique skins that can only be acquired through s/tPvP.

They should also do something similar with WvW. WvW-unique skins that can only be acquired through WvW.

In the original Guild Wars there were a few items that were unique to PvP-only. To be honest, I don’t even know if there’s anything even like that for PvP characters, as I haven’t checked. I’m guessing not though. They also had all PvE armor, including Chaos Gloves, you could acquire for your PvP only characters.

Why they’ve chosen this weird separating thing from PvP and PvE is something I don’t fully understand. As, again, in the original, you could go PvP in your PvE gear.

You can’t use your cool PvE armor/weapons that you’ve spent hours grinding for-because it’s PvP.

You can’t use any trinkets that you’ve spent your time farming for other than an Amulet-because it’s PvP.

All the money you have invested in cosmetics don’t carry over to the Mists-because it’s PvP.

You make crap for gold-because it’s PvP.

Sounds kind of crappy, doesn’t it? Here’s where the logic of all that fails pretty hard: In PvP, you have access to all PvE Skills ( aside from Racials ) to play with. Because, God forbid they separate the one thing that could lead to imbalance.

I didn’t explain well I guess what I was saying is that wvwers don’t get anywhere near as much small combat exp. as spvpers do, and it is the reason we farm them. If you put wvwers in hot join they will most likely not get any better because we all know what hot join is like.

There are many things that would bring WvW players to sPvP, i play both in a structured manner, not in a casual manner, and i can say that i would play sPvP more if there were real rewards and more importantly better game modes.

It’s like playing Arathi Basin in WoW, it’s a brilliant map and very fun even after 8 years, but to play it constantly every single match, is zero fun. That’s the same for Conquest in Gw2, it’s basically the same every map with just a different look and different ‘secondary’ objectives, but even those secondary objects on certain maps are a pain and very boring or not worth doing at all in Hotjoin.

The way Hotjoin and sPvP is setup makes it not even seem like a game mode, it’s just a sandbox of walking practice targets to test out stuff. This is what separates sPvP from other games, it’s just not fun nor rewarding.

Take Counterstrike for instance, the game is fun, winning gives self satisfaction due to the balanced nature and promotion of skill the game requires, this is why games like that don’t need objectified rewards like glory points to make u enjoy it. Then there’s games that do reward you for winning, reward you with meaningful rank, or ELO, or spending points for real things that improve yourself in-game. These 2 things, rewards and satisfaction are what make people enjoy a game and enjoy winning, at a primitive level.

GW2 has these things too, but it’s very very limited for a large player base, the balance is off, people are getting frustrated with fighting certain builds/classes, the rewards can be completely meaningless for someone who cares not for skins. This is why people don’t enjoy hotjoin that much, and the motivation for winning is low.

Now imagine sPvP with tangible rewards and more fun and enjoyable game modes. Sure class balance may still be off to a point, but the game now promotes a reason for teamwork, and a reason to win, which would kind of make class imbalances seem less frustrating.

This is my view on why players in general, not just WvWers, do not enjoy sPvP.

I have an idea, allow food in pvp, and charge them with gold, so not everyone has it, just like in wvw.

Silentflute, this has nothing to do with overall skill between the two. You don’t seem to get that I’m trying to ask for greater diversity. Something WvW offers. Bring it to SPvP so more people play it in general. Thanks for your comments.

Tobbygnome.6793:

There are many things that would bring WvW players to sPvP, i play both in a structured manner, not in a casual manner, and i can say that i would play sPvP more if there were real rewards and more importantly better game modes.

It’s like playing Arathi Basin in WoW, it’s a brilliant map and very fun even after 8 years, but to play it constantly every single match, is zero fun. That’s the same for Conquest in Gw2, it’s basically the same every map with just a different look and different ‘secondary’ objectives, but even those secondary objects on certain maps are a pain and very boring or not worth doing at all in Hotjoin.

The way Hotjoin and sPvP is setup makes it not even seem like a game mode, it’s just a sandbox of walking practice targets to test out stuff. This is what separates sPvP from other games, it’s just not fun nor rewarding.

Take Counterstrike for instance, the game is fun, winning gives self satisfaction due to the balanced nature and promotion of skill the game requires, this is why games like that don’t need objectified rewards like glory points to make u enjoy it. Then there’s games that do reward you for winning, reward you with meaningful rank, or ELO, or spending points for real things that improve yourself in-game. These 2 things, rewards and satisfaction are what make people enjoy a game and enjoy winning, at a primitive level.

GW2 has these things too, but it’s very very limited for a large player base, the balance is off, people are getting frustrated with fighting certain builds/classes, the rewards can be completely meaningless for someone who cares not for skins. This is why people don’t enjoy hotjoin that much, and the motivation for winning is low.

Now imagine sPvP with tangible rewards and more fun and enjoyable game modes. Sure class balance may still be off to a point, but the game now promotes a reason for teamwork, and a reason to win, which would kind of make class imbalances seem less frustrating.

This is my view on why players in general, not just WvWers, do not enjoy sPvP.

Tobby, I cannot say how much I agree with you. Those are great points. Thanks for posting them here. I still hope for a focus on balance, but yes, I’d kill for tangible rewards. If you got 1 silver for a win, 10 silver for being a category leader or something along thee lines. Obviously that’s flawed since silver means nothing there, but I wish it did.

Thanks for adding to the discussion.

They prolly need the wvwers to come in with the balance the way it is the spvpers are gone for the most part lol. I am one lv away from tiger and I was going to grind it out in hot join, but kitten this game is unplayable as it is. I’m done with it until the worthless spvp team does something right I guess ill go farm some noobs in wvw.

Just for the love of the kitten bring in some other modes than stand in a smal claustrophobic cirkle and not use mobility or some classes core abilitys to stay alive as it not cap the point.

If we had some more game modes, capture the flag, arena gvg, defend/rescue etc we would de totaly new build be viable and spvp would be alot more fun.

Atm the ultimate class in this game would be if you could transform to a oak, root yourself for 5 mins, endure tons of dmg dont deal any yourself but instead fear and bounce ppl away from a mini area around you.

Osicat

Osicat.4139:

Atm the ultimate class in this game would be if you could transform to a oak, root yourself for 5 mins, endure tons of dmg dont deal any yourself but instead fear and bounce ppl away from a mini area around you.

Osicat

LOL. Sad but not entirely untrue

Mbelch.9028:

This is about stats mostly. Why will it never happen? List reasons and logical thinking behind it.

Most people have agreed that advanced build making would be beneficial to SPvP.

It was a very conscious design decision to make sPvP limited in the different possible stat distributions. PvP balance has to be very finely tuned, there is an imposed limit to how ‘glassy’ and how ‘tanky’ you can be, so it’s in a reasonable position to balance without considering 50% more posibilities.. Full glass cannons in WvW and PvP are quite different. 100% crit damage vs, 50% crit dmg in extreme cases. Full support bunkers are very different in WvW and PvP as well.

Don’t get me wrong, everyone agrees that stat customization is a desirable feature for MMO players, but if it brings more extreme comps/builds to the table then I don’t know if I’m up for that.

Mbelch.9028:

As an avid WvWer on Maguuma, I often get bugged as to why I don’t go into SPvP more frequently.

My answer: I don’t enjoy seeing the same builds repeatedly, I feel my character progression means nothing and most importantly — I feel myself pigeonholed when build crafting by limited armor choices.

I think by allowing players to sync their PvE char with their PvP char — so that armors and skins from the one side were coppied to the next — more people would come back to SPvP on a regular basis.

I don’t think most would even mind a price charge for the service, but if one thinks about it, it should allow better balance, it should make things more interesting and in reality, the grind for skins is quite similar in each mode, so it isn’t unfair to ‘Skinheads’ :P.

Anet, is this something you’ll work on or consider? For now, too many people think your premiere PvP mode is basic.

I dont know. If your suggestion was implemented into game right now. It would not excite me to play sPvP anyway to be honest. There are hundered things wrong about sPvP and after year I got my proof that things wont change.

Thanks for your comments all.

Chaith.8256:

Mbelch.9028:

This is about stats mostly. Why will it never happen? List reasons and logical thinking behind it.

Most people have agreed that advanced build making would be beneficial to SPvP.

It was a very conscious design decision to make sPvP limited in the different possible stat distributions. PvP balance has to be very finely tuned, there is an imposed limit to how ‘glassy’ and how ‘tanky’ you can be, so it’s in a reasonable position to balance without considering 50% more posibilities.. Full glass cannons in WvW and PvP are quite different. 100% crit damage vs, 50% crit dmg in extreme cases. Full support bunkers are very different in WvW and PvP as well.

Don’t get me wrong, everyone agrees that stat customization is a desirable feature for MMO players, but if it brings more extreme comps/builds to the table then I don’t know if I’m up for that.

If you think about it, there’s far more than 50% more possibilities. The allowance of full gear choice almost means no build is the same.

In regards to the tanks are tankier, they can be, but they really aren’t. As most tanks in WvW still need damage. They therefore use soldiers. Or soldiers and Zerk. And if you notice, the soldiers option in SPvP is true to PvE. So the tanks really aren’t tankier. I just wanted to point that out.

For each level of give you have in PvE you have another level of take. That’s how I see it.

I understand that the amulets may have been a conscientious decision, but they look like options to help noobs understand armor.

I for one would be doing tones of spvp if i could bring my pve gear in spvp and that’s from skins to all accessories and runes that aren’t even available in spvp. I would like to have the exact stats i want to have, not taking a preset from spvp amulets and deal with it…

Grrr stupid forum logged me out and i lost my post Let see \o/

There are reasons why sPvP has structured gear, first is because it’s ‘structured’ PvP :P but it’s because that’s where Anet feels the stats should be at for a competitive balanced environment.

PvE gear is very powerful and allows classes like thief to 1-2 shot most players with ease, which is fine for WvW because it’s not balanced or structured around 1vx scenarios, it’s all large scale battles.

The only way PvE gear would work inside sPvP is with mechanisms like Resilience, but that’s a whole other topic.

There could be more stat combinations i guess, i personally don’t know if that would be balanced or not, only Anet knows that. But as for directly allowing PvE gear in sPvP, that could open up some obvious issues.

As if bringing pve stats to pvp would chance a thing. It would still result in the same meta only it would make it 10x as hard to balance

No thx

I have to wonder if the people who think pve stats are bad have ever actually played in high skill fights using them. From their comments, I’m thinking no.

Tobby, I disagree it would be unbalancing. The stats are all the same. I’m not sure if you are used to the same WvW I am, but thieves — even full glass — don’t 2 hit me. They’re easy to counter as they die quickly. Stealth is the issue there, but it is a different can of worms.

About WvW being unbalanced, I must also bring up the point that there are diehard roamer groups — like mine — that love to do 1vX where we are the 1, not the X. So there is balance. The only unbalanced thing about it, is that you can bring 20-100 people just to knock out one small 5 man group. The new stats would allow for small teams play like WvWers like me love in SPvP. Especially with some new game modes.

You seem very intelligent, so I appreciate your comments even though your views differ from mine.

dreztina.4820:

I have to wonder if the people who think pve stats are bad have ever actually played in high skill fights using them. From their comments, I’m thinking no.

I’m with you.

I wouldn’t even insinuate that the gear is PvE gear. It happens to only be in PvE, but those stats are meant for fighting as well. All but magic find — which is being removed anyways — should be moved OR allowed into SPvP.

Drez I know you’d agree Eles take specific gear calculations to be even more effective.

Just to clarify on my point of PvE gear in PvP:

I don’t want any advantages over PvP only gear. I’d want how it’s gear and amulets only, to stay the same. I just want to be able to feel like my grinding is worth something, and take it to the arenas versus more grinding.