Guild Wars 2

There is no difference! You can check it by yourself: go afk and ask your buddy Power Thief (or any other Power class) to burst you down.
With zero Toughness it takes about 4 – 7 seconds. More or less, it depends on class and how much health do you have.
With 1200 Toughness it takes, what a surprise, 4 – 7 seconds lol.
I guess i can just completely ignore this stat in PvP.

Now lets check the difference between 0 and 1200 Power. I think that we don’t need any explanations here, right?

Sifu.9745:

There is no difference! You can check it by yourself: go afk and ask your buddy Power Thief (or any other Power class) to burst you down.
With zero Toughness it takes about 4 – 7 seconds. More or less, it depends on class and how much health do you have.
With 1200 Toughness it takes, what a surprise, 4 – 7 seconds lol.
I guess i can just completely ignore this stat in PvP.

Now lets check the difference between 0 and 1200 Power. I think that we don’t need any explanations here, right?

Be my personal tester plz!

Very anecdotal. It would be more accurate to have him AA you while you have 0 toughness, then AA you while you have 1200 (or whatever you want) to determine average damage reduction.

Sifu.9745:

There is no difference! You can check it by yourself: go afk and ask your buddy Power Thief (or any other Power class) to burst you down.
With zero Toughness it takes about 4 – 7 seconds. More or less, it depends on class and how much health do you have.
With 1200 Toughness it takes, what a surprise, 4 – 7 seconds lol.
I guess i can just completely ignore this stat in PvP.

Now lets check the difference between 0 and 1200 Power. I think that we don’t need any explanations here, right?

Damage formula:
Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

The base armor without toughness is about 2000, a bit less for light, a bit more for medium and heavy

With +2000 Toughness you get ~50% damage reduction
With +1200 toughness it’s ~38% damage reduction

Sifu.9745:

There is no difference! You can check it by yourself: go afk and ask your buddy Power Thief (or any other Power class) to burst you down.
With zero Toughness it takes about 4 – 7 seconds. More or less, it depends on class and how much health do you have.
With 1200 Toughness it takes, what a surprise, 4 – 7 seconds lol.
I guess i can just completely ignore this stat in PvP.

Now lets check the difference between 0 and 1200 Power. I think that we don’t need any explanations here, right?

Let me start by saying I think your testing may be flawed. Perhaps not. Maybe there’s a bug that Anet needs to address.

When you did your testing did you check the damage in the combat log? Did your buddy crit and if so how often? Did he crit the same amount of times for the same amount of damage? 1 or 2 extra crits while you had on your armor would make a difference and could explain why he burned you down in the same time frame.

I would retest in the spvp lobby and have your buddy strip down. No amulet or armor runes at all. As close to base stats as possible.

Have him burn you down while your stripped, no amulet or runes, just base stats. Then put on an amulet only, maybe Knights, and have him do it again.

Check time span and combat log and see what happens.

To do a meaningful test:
1) do not have a build to prevent damage reduction modifiers
2) wear armor pieces and not wearing a shield
3) if the foe could have 100% crit chance the test will be easier
4) the foe shouldn’t have damaging proc into his build
5) the foe should always have the same amount of might
6) the foe should use only one move (no chain)
7) watch the combat log and compare the damage with and without 1200 toughness

Attacker Build
Skill of choice: Life Blast
Requirement: Always stay over 50% Life Force

Offense in this game scales much higher than defense.

The most effective defenses don’t come from defensive stats, but from immunities/blocks/blind spam.

It’s why necro has garbage survivability but a guardian or ele with half the HP but more mitigation/healing tools are more survivable.

It’s why a daredevil craps all over a necromancer in an offensive amulet build against a more defensively geared necromancer.

Toughness should have a crit/condi damage reduction component added to it, and vitality should be merged with healing power to make these stats more competitive with offensive stats.

He he, do you see the point now? If you really need to do the testing to see the difference between 1200 Toughness and 0 Toughness that must be something wrong with this stat, right?

I mean when you PvP, do you feel any difference, cause i don’t. Ok, i’ve never enter arena with more then 900 Toughness, but i’ve never felt that i’m that tough guy who can take more hits.
Yes, with more Toughness you receive less dmg, but the difference is so small that is barely noticeable

With 1200 Power you don’t need any kind of testing: you can clearly see (you can feel it) how big the difference it between 1200 and 0 Power.

My point is: with zero Toughens GS Power Reaper would just three or four shot me (i am afk) . With 500 Toughness there won’t be any difference, he would still three or four shot me. With 1200 Toughness (who would take 1200 toughness anyway?) i could take maybe ONE more non aa hit, just one.
Now let’s do the “math” for attacker. Power Reaper with 1200 Power (+ 900 crit and 900 ferocity) would three or four shot you (you are afk), aa excluded. Reaper with 0 Power (+ 900 crit and 900 ferocity) will probably need more than 10 hits.

Zenith.7301:

It’s why a daredevil craps all over a necromancer in an offensive amulet build against a more defensively geared necromancer.

No.

If you take

a Dagger Marauder Teef (17k HP, 2k armor) and
a Dagger Demolisher Reaper (19k HP, 2,5k armor)

and let them do a face to face autoattack battle, the Reaper will outdamage the Teef and is even able to outheal him when not interrupted by Steal/Headshot.

(Notice that both Teef and Necro Dagger have all their dps on the autoattack.)

The fight is decided by utilities here where Reaper has the upper hand as he can shroudburst the Teef when he engages and then just autoattack him to death or force him to shadowstep away. Teef blinds work pretty well vs. a GS Reaper but are useless vs. a Dagger Reaper.

But since you talked about an offensive Teef and a defensive Reaper: A Paladin Dagger Reaper has a 100% win ratio vs. a Berserk Dagger Teef – even if he runs an empty utility skill bar.

KrHome.1920:

Zenith.7301:

It’s why a daredevil craps all over a necromancer in an offensive amulet build against a more defensively geared necromancer.

No.

If you take

a Dagger Marauder Teef (17k HP, 2k armor) and
a Dagger Demolisher Reaper (19k HP, 2,5k armor)

and let them do a face to face autoattack battle, the Reaper will outdamage the Teef and is even able to outheal him when not interrupted by Steal/Headshot.

(Notice that both Teef and Necro Dagger have all their dps on the autoattack.)

The fight is decided by utilities here where Reaper has the upper hand as he can shroudburst the Teef when he engages and then just autoattack him to death or force him to shadowstep away. Teef blinds work pretty well vs. a GS Reaper but are useless vs. a Dagger Reaper.

lol please, a single well placed black powder negates all the pressure from dagger autoattacks, and it’s not like a thief is gonna play the game of standing in the necro’s face when he can just burst in, dodge out and wear him down with shortbow before steal is back up and necro can do nothing about it.

Sifu.9745:

He he, do you see the point now? If you really need to do the testing to see the difference between 1200 Toughness and 0 Toughness that must be something wrong with this stat, right?

I mean when you PvP, do you feel any difference, cause i don’t. Ok, i’ve never enter arena with more then 900 Toughness, but i’ve never felt that i’m that tough guy who can take more hits.
Yes, with more Toughness you receive less dmg, but the difference is so small that is barely noticeable

With 1200 Power you don’t need any kind of testing: you can clearly see (you can feel it) how big the difference it between 1200 and 0 Power.

My point is: with zero Toughens GS Power Reaper would just three or four shot me (i am afk) . With 500 Toughness there won’t be any difference, he would still three or four shot me. With 1200 Toughness (who would take 1200 toughness anyway?) i could take maybe ONE more non aa hit, just one.
Now let’s do the “math” for attacker. Power Reaper with 1200 Power (+ 900 crit and 900 ferocity) would three or four shot you (you are afk), aa excluded. Reaper with 0 Power (+ 900 crit and 900 ferocity) will probably need more than 10 hits.

The number of hits means nothing, every moves deal different damage.
Toughness is all about mitigate power damage and it was so good with health regeneration that every toughness + vitality/healing power amulet was removed.

Even Tempests under protection effects can die in a blink of an eye if “afk”.
Its a good thing that toughness don’t make power builds useless.