Guild Wars 2

On other maps an ele is obviously the best class. However on spirit watch it is game breaking in how OP it is. The way they can carry orbs is absurd. It really isnt much fun when you know as soon as an ele gets the orb its basically a goal already. RTL not being effected at all is just depressingly annoying. How is this not fixed?

Spirit watch is great but the patch needs to address these imbalances in the map which make the map feel very lame as 3 eles is probably the best spec (at least 2).

My solution:
- Make rtl effected by the speed deduction by reducing its ranger to 40% of what it should be.
- Or just make rtl drop the orb

Mist form with the orb isnt really a problem imo.

Is rtl with the orb going to be fixed with the patch? it needs to be. Or please dont include spirit watch in the rotation again.

IMO, all invuln abilities should cause the orb to drop, regardless of profession. I was under the impression that it was the original design intent.

Edit: Ventured over to EU today for the first time in ages. Pretty much every team had 2-3 eles. Was interesting.

Posting in yet another Lordrosicky ele QQ thread.

RTL had pathing problems I guess we could call it, if you were to rtl and there was a blade of grass there you wouldn’t make it to your target.

Other than that I haven’t played the map but I would assume rtl not dropping the orb (which would be no different than dropping the flags in gw1 which rtl and shadowsteps did do if I remember right) makes me assume not dropping orbs to be a mistake atm. Small things like this happen.

It is also a completely valid point to bring up, not a qq thread.

rtl shouldnt even be in the game, or at least should require a target.

Razor.6392:

Posting in yet another Lordrosicky ele QQ thread.

^
12345chars

There are only a few places where an ele can effectively use RTL to run the orb. Most places will get cut short, send the ele flying off the catwalk or end up getting him stuck on terrain. When you see the ele moving to line up his RTL in those few open paths, use immob and hard CC to push/pull him away from his desired course.

I know that requires you to do more than roll your face across your wombo combo keybinds, but give it a shot.

Razor.6392:

Posting in yet another Lordrosicky ele QQ thread.

Also, this. Sometimes I wish I could have that much passion toward a single subject, but then I realize I would have to be ridiculously bad at everything else and decide I’m better off.

Razor.6392:

Posting in yet another Lordrosicky ele QQ thread.

It is kind of annoying how much some people complain about elementalists, but, at the same time, it’s kind of ridiculous how long they have remained the dominant class. It seems like every change ArenaNet makes just results in another equally overpowered build being “discovered.”

rtl should be affected by all slows, and recharge reduced to 15 sec again.
why devs don’t get this is a mystery.
/thread

milo.6942:

rtl should be affected by all slows, and recharge reduced to 15 sec again.
why devs don’t get this is a mystery.
/thread

Can we agree at 12 sec then which would be a bit better that swoop but not better than gs/sword ranger unless you go d/d plus conjures/blink!
Who cares about pvp anymore , i just want fast travelling times in wvw :P

simple solution: orb carrier should get whole new set of abilities instead of weapon skills, problem solved. disable utilities while carrying the orb while you are at it aswell.

otherwise u’ll always have classes that excel at carrying orbs/flags/balls whatever. every game before gw2 had this problem, why should it be different here? druids/rogues/mages in WoW, sith warriors/assassins in swtor, just to name 2 examples.

Radamanth.9048:

simple solution: orb carrier should get whole new set of abilities instead of weapon skills, problem solved. disable utilities while carrying the orb while you are at it aswell.

otherwise u’ll always have classes that excel at carrying orbs/flags/balls whatever. every game before gw2 had this problem, why should it be different here? druids/rogues/mages in WoW, sith warriors/assassins in swtor, just to name 2 examples.

it is not so simple. then game is effectively 4v5

milo.6942:

rtl should be affected by all slows, and recharge reduced to 15 sec again.
why devs don’t get this is a mystery.
/thread

I can only think it is because it is going to take more than 10 minutes to code this in. Maybe there is a problem or something. Otherwise I agree it truely is one of the strangest things not to be fixed. It is surely a bug that rtl isnt effected by chills and cripples. IT is a bug which effects the result of every tournament match that occurs pretty much and yet it is not fixed by anet.

An ele will still be able to cure the chill/cripple easily alot of the time anyway. So rtl needs to be at least 15 s cooldown. I would leave it at 18 or something and effect it with chill and cripple..

If they cant do this then I would make rtl a 40s cooldown or something till they can figure it out.

A game defining “bug” (rtl not effected by slows) that has been in for 7 months really isnt promising for this game. The whole bunker ele/far point ele problem revolves around this ability. It is the way they escape without you being able to do anything before quickly healing to full and coming back to press your close point again. If it was effected by chills and cripples you could punish an ele for making a mistake of going into a fight he cannot win. At least if you play well enough to chill or cripple him at the right times.

it’s not a bug, it’s intended. which is even worse.

milo.6942:

it’s not a bug, it’s intended. which is even worse.

It has to be a bug because it is not consistant with any other movement skills :/

there are gap closers, and there are teleports -> which means there are “templates” to use for either -> rtl is a mix -> which means it was on purpose.

also: when asked about ele orb carriers with rtl in the sotg, the response was basically “yes it’s intended, and there are other skills that we know of that do similar things.”

I find that rangers are stronger than eles, when it comes to orb running. I saw an insane ranger traveling the distance from orb to capture point at tremendous speed. It was as if he had swiftness and wasn’t affected by the slow of the orb, which is a big advantage to a mere RTL that works best when going in a straight line.

And since you dislike RTL being used for orb carrying, I can tell you this. You need to use it when you have a clean and long path ahead of you. So use immobilize/guardian walls etc. at the start of the grabbing the orb, and nearing a capture point, basically at the stairs. The way to the capture points are not straight lines, so using RTL has its disadvantages when you don’t use it correctly, which lets you anticipate its use.

Still, what I saw in game makes me see rangers as superior orb carriers, or at the very least on par with eles.

Then again, nothing will change the hatred of OP against eles.

Lordrosicky.5813:

milo.6942:

it’s not a bug, it’s intended. which is even worse.

It has to be a bug because it is not consistant with any other movement skills :/

Milo’s right – using rtl gives you a status where you’re in “lightning form” and you can’t use any skills, utilities, or even switch attunements. The devs were bug fixing and tweaking this skill in the early months, so if slows/cripples not affecting it were an issue, they would’ve addressed it. That being said, rtl isn’t affected by swiftness either. Not all movement skills have to be exactly the same.

Rtl can be pretty cheap as an orb carrier, but it isn’t unstoppable; and professions like rangers, guardians, and engineers have little trouble being an orb carrier as well. The devs can decide whether to tweak Rtl during orb carrying, but it isn’t fair to suggest adjustments to a skill solely because of one sPvP map.

In every MMO I’ve played, it’s always blown my mind that people defend even the most broken classes and their most overpowered aspects to the end.

This is indisputably broken. It’s one thing to be able to hop a few feet forward, but being able to rip through 1,200 range with no repercussion is absolutely game breaking, especially if it’s paired with two to four rolls that ignore snares.

If it wasn’t /D it would be /F.
Then you can sleep on 7s of invulnerability + Proj destruction & reflection + Shock aura for the melee, and chill, with dat dere Armor of earth & Arcane block. + teh dodges. You’d still be trippin. Lucky Focus is meh in general.

Cirax.9231:

Lordrosicky.5813:

milo.6942:

it’s not a bug, it’s intended. which is even worse.

It has to be a bug because it is not consistant with any other movement skills :/

Milo’s right – using rtl gives you a status where you’re in “lightning form” and you can’t use any skills, utilities, or even switch attunements. The devs were bug fixing and tweaking this skill in the early months, so if slows/cripples not affecting it were an issue, they would’ve addressed it. That being said, rtl isn’t affected by swiftness either. Not all movement skills have to be exactly the same.

Rtl can be pretty cheap as an orb carrier, but it isn’t unstoppable; and professions like rangers, guardians, and engineers have little trouble being an orb carrier as well. The devs can decide whether to tweak Rtl during orb carrying, but it isn’t fair to suggest adjustments to a skill solely because of one sPvP map.

By that logic you are in “whirlwind” forum or “rush form”.

Because you can’t use any other techniques while doing such things.
————-

Rtl unnaffected by slows is just bad game design. Its catering to one class over another for a very similar skill.

Lopez.7369:

In every MMO I’ve played, it’s always blown my mind that people defend even the most broken classes and their most overpowered aspects to the end.

This is indisputably broken. It’s one thing to be able to hop a few feet forward, but being able to rip through 1,200 range with no repercussion is absolutely game breaking, especially if it’s paired with two to four rolls that ignore snares.

Because they are the ones playing it.

The Dunning–Kruger effect causes players who aren’t good to think they are. When they find an overpowered class that lets them excel beyond their actual skill they think it is fine because they are severely overestimating their own skill.

In short “C” players think they are “A” players.

Now there are certainly balance issues, but the difficulty is always in separating out the wheat from the chaff.

Empiren.6401:

Cirax.9231:

Lordrosicky.5813:

milo.6942:

it’s not a bug, it’s intended. which is even worse.

It has to be a bug because it is not consistant with any other movement skills :/

Milo’s right – using rtl gives you a status where you’re in “lightning form” and you can’t use any skills, utilities, or even switch attunements. The devs were bug fixing and tweaking this skill in the early months, so if slows/cripples not affecting it were an issue, they would’ve addressed it. That being said, rtl isn’t affected by swiftness either. Not all movement skills have to be exactly the same.

Rtl can be pretty cheap as an orb carrier, but it isn’t unstoppable; and professions like rangers, guardians, and engineers have little trouble being an orb carrier as well. The devs can decide whether to tweak Rtl during orb carrying, but it isn’t fair to suggest adjustments to a skill solely because of one sPvP map.

By that logic you are in “whirlwind” forum or “rush form”.

Because you can’t use any other techniques while doing such things.
————-

Rtl unnaffected by slows is just bad game design. Its catering to one class over another for a very similar skill.

If you play an elementalist, you see you get a buff while using rtl called “lightning form”. This locks out your entire taskbar.

On a warrior, you can still use utilities like shouts during “rush”.

Please at least try the class before making balance comments.. this goes for everyone talking about any profession. The last thing we need is spreading misinformation.

so for you guys rtl is frustrating and “game breaking”. And a tanky ranger orb carrier with tonns of evades is ok?!

Dinster.7063:

so for you guys rtl is frustrating and “game breaking”. And a tanky ranger orb carrier with tonns of evades is ok?!

1 well timed immob and it’s good bye to that ranger. Ele has mistform and condi clears and heals up the kitten while it has that mobility.

edit:
Not to mention a tanky ele still contributes a kitten load to team fight, tanky rangers are crap in team fights

Why does RTL move you 1500 instead of 1200?
Is that intentional or another mess up?
Tbh I no longer mind that it is not affected by slows.

1500 gap closer every 20s vs 6s Projectile destroy every 30?
Meh.
I do believe you can run Spike trap, Tripwire, Needle trap, or Signet of Dom, Line of Warding/ Ring of warding, Focus Pull, Slick shoes, Illusionary wave to stop the Ele from scoring with RTL.

again its not true. If I were ranger and got immob, i have bunch of options:
a) hope that trait will work
b) use signet
c) 1h sword and press 3rd skill, which causes full evade

atm ranger is best orb carrier in game. Plus u dont need to team fight on spirit watch, thats why if u pick ranger, u can stop worring about the orb and simply play 4v3(because 1 person can do nothing to tank carrying orb) on other points.

You should be given an award for being “Most Persistent QQer, I mean Player” and “Most Number of Ele Complaints Thread Created”

Kudos my friend! Have a cookie

RTL not affected by slows isnt a bug, since compared to other gap closers, it locks all your skills, and if you get immobilized you basically stun yourself for 2 or 3 seconds. Other gap closers usually comes with huge damage (see warriors ) and you can still use your skills. Not to mention eles are in the bottom of the list about HP/armor so they need to shine over other classes when it comes to mobility.

hharry.1967:

RTL not affected by slows isnt a bug, since compared to other gap closers, it locks all your skills, and if you get immobilized you basically stun yourself for 2 or 3 seconds. Other gap closers usually comes with huge damage (see warriors ) and you can still use your skills. Not to mention eles are in the bottom of the list about HP/armor so they need to shine over other classes when it comes to mobility.

Apparently the low HP/armor argument isn’t gonna cut it with these guys since an ele built for bunker has crapload of healing thus way larger effective healthpool/survivability compared to the rest. Add to that the fact that these bunker eles also anecdotally dish out decent damage. So they rage QQ about a class that has OP survivabiliy, OP mobility, and acceptable dps in one package that is the ele.

waka.9826:

Dinster.7063:

so for you guys rtl is frustrating and “game breaking”. And a tanky ranger orb carrier with tonns of evades is ok?!

1 well timed immob and it’s good bye to that ranger. Ele has mistform and condi clears and heals up the kitten while it has that mobility.

edit:
Not to mention a tanky ele still contributes a kitten load to team fight, tanky rangers are crap in team fights

Ele can’t condi clears while in RtL form

the more you know!

it’s ridiculous how you just listed the same counter that you’re supposed to use on eles. fail.

Maybe you should try getting to the orb before the opponent does by out-ele’ing the other elementalist. Just a thought.

So much Dunning-Kruger, it’s incredible.

I play an ele.

I know some of the stuff ele has is overpowered, and gives me an advantage, I’m under no illusions about this because I also play other classes and try to maintain a realistic view of my skill level.

So many ele’s think they are superior players when really, the class is just OP.

Erasmus.1624:

Maybe you should try getting to the orb before the opponent does by out-ele’ing the other elementalist. Just a thought.

If you have to out-ele the other team then the class is broken in my opinion period.

What I face more and more in SW are the bunker-guard runners. As they got 4-5 blocks in a row, it’s just way too easy to cap the orb.

I know eles are king on the map bc of rtl, but the only two spots on orb carrying where we are able to use it to our advantage, are from the last set of stairs to a node, and from first stairs near orb to bottom of hill behind raven (if you dont hit any rocks). If you are solely focusing on orb carrying (if you can afford it with a decent team), you may also use it to sprint back to the orb after its placed.

In most cases, anyone with a brain will target you and lock you down like crazy. Ever, unfortunately use rtl, only to realize someone was smart enough to immobolize you RIGHT before hand. Annoying much?

Pfft, tanky rangers? How about engis almost perma evading too? Saw this thanks to fighting natural port in one of saats team the other day? We had 3 eles including myself and we still lost (I solo queue’ed ty MMR).

Same with guardians blocking or using sanctuary ontop of orb.

Takes a brain to win regardless of how “op” a class my seem to people.

Is it possible to ‘teleport cap’ the orb? Or was that actually fixed already…I honestly can’t remember.

I hate the RTL nerfs because of the fail content requirements.

ensoriki.5789:

If it wasn’t /D it would be /F.
Then you can sleep on 7s of invulnerability + Proj destruction & reflection + Shock aura for the melee, and chill, with dat dere Armor of earth & Arcane block. + teh dodges. You’d still be trippin. Lucky Focus is meh in general.

So true..

All movement-skills and Teleports should drop the Relic – it’s as easy as that.

I don’t think that Mistform should drop it though, because that would lead to pretty much any ele-build other than full-tank would probably not be used on Spirit Watch.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Is it possible to ‘teleport cap’ the orb? Or was that actually fixed already…I honestly can’t remember.

what do u mean by teleport cap?
Btw, i havent seen ya for a while on forums.
does it mean, that vD is comming back?)

KarlaGrey.5903:

Is it possible to ‘teleport cap’ the orb? Or was that actually fixed already…I honestly can’t remember.

yea it is.

saw an ele rtl cap the orb earlier this evening. i laughed the whole time.

forrae.6708:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Is it possible to ‘teleport cap’ the orb? Or was that actually fixed already…I honestly can’t remember.

yea it is.

saw an ele rtl cap the orb earlier this evening. i laughed the whole time.

RTL is not teleport… its just movement improving skill, like any leap or charge you can stop ele from doing it by guards “walls” or immobilize etc

and something new…
necro is gamebreakingly good at spirit watch… he walked second half way to orb unhurt in his plague form, wtf? unkillable… and you cry about eles RTL?

To cap the orb against any decent team you need some sort of block. So I don’t see the necro being op on the map. Even when plague is one of the best skillz out there.

forrae.6708:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Is it possible to ‘teleport cap’ the orb? Or was that actually fixed already…I honestly can’t remember.

yea it is.

saw an ele rtl cap the orb earlier this evening. i laughed the whole time.

I meant the trick where you innitiate a channeling command (taking buffs, stomping, rezzing, whatever), and teleporting away straight after in order to guarantee a safe stomp/cap/rez without staying exposed to damage and disruption.

MaXi.3642:

and something new…
necro is gamebreakingly good at spirit watch… he walked second half way to orb unhurt in his plague form, wtf? unkillable… and you cry about eles RTL?

Yea, I often run it in plague form, but it can be bypassed so easily that it only really works on baddies, or classes relying heavily on CC such as knockbacks (guards and engies come to mind, although they both still have the root to compensate) with little to no access to cripple or other snares. Anything ranged with snares just obliterates plague running necs with their gozzilion snares nad roots, and since a nec cannot remove conds while in plague form…………….yea, you go figure. Ranger’s root elite is, for example, something that caused me most difficulties. Also because rangers make for excellent runners too because of all their vigour upkeep. Moreover, knowing how to jump roll consistently is also a big plus.

Dinster.7063:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Is it possible to ‘teleport cap’ the orb? Or was that actually fixed already…I honestly can’t remember.

what do u mean by teleport cap?
Btw, i havent seen ya for a while on forums.
does it mean, that vD is comming back?)

Read above~
Yea, I virtually quit the game, but then my back-up game for when GW is too dead to bother was removed, so I’m back on GW2. Started to like the free tournies, so I’ll prolly hang around for a while.
As a matter of fact, I actually managed to get 4 of us together for a round of 2-team freebies (the wait time was too long for 8-team freebies).
It was nice, especially because we rolled a 5 ele team, muaha. But yea, vD is still inactive as far as regular tournament play is concerned. It’s mostly just me that asks people to tag along.

OP? where are you?

It’s ok, I’d hide too after that slap in the face called patch notes l0l.