Guild Wars 2

Arenanet will only nerf/change specs that are played well in the high level competition. For example the stealth FGS rush was nerfed when one of the teams used it in stream tournaments to kill the lord in 5 seconds. Also the nightmare rune was changed when Phantaram was streaming and one of the devs asked in twitch chat if Noscoc was using nightmare runes. Same with might stacks, ele auto attack cancel, etc.

Given all the attention developers pay attention to high level and well known players while almost never listening to complains on forum, it is best for the entire community to encourage all players that attend ESL tournaments to run turret engies so that the match becomes 5v5 turret engie fest. Anet truly believes that balance patch must be done based on high level players, and if high level players do believe that turret engi spec should be done away, the only way to grab attention of balanced team is to actually have as many turret engies in competition to show how broken of spec it is.

I’m sure it won’t happen given the competitive and fair nature of high skilled GW2 players who are outraged because of dumb and broken spec of turret engies, but I feel like organizing turret engi day for ESL tournaments is the only way to actually make anet pay attention to players’ pleas.

TheFamster.7806:

I’m sure it won’t happen given the competitive and fair nature of high skilled GW2 players who are outraged because of dumb and broken spec of turret engies..

LOL, you mean the players that were happy to roll face on teams with “high skill builds” like Hambow with often two or occasionally three in a team, or who instantly switched to double necro after dhumfire patch, or were happy to AFK on spirit rangers for many, many months, etc.

Yeah top PvPers aren’t trying to play fair and competitive, they are trying to win. If they aren’t playing turret engi it’s because they think a different setup is better, plain and simple.

Turret engi will receive a nerf eventually, but it’s not going to be because of pvp streamers. Or tournaments. I thought turret engi was banned from those tourneys anyway.

Rhialto.8423:

Yeah top PvPers aren’t trying to play fair and competitive, they are trying to win. If they aren’t playing turret engi it’s because they think a different setup is better, plain and simple.

Turret engi will receive a nerf eventually, but it’s not going to be because of pvp streamers. Or tournaments. I thought turret engi was banned from those tourneys anyway.

Turret Engis I don’t think are banned from ESL or big tournaments.

That’s the sad part about it. This game will always be about abusing easy and effective, it will never be about hard work if ANET devs don’t ever improve.

BlackTruth.6813:

That’s the sad part about it. This game will always be about abusing easy and effective, it will never be about hard work if ANET devs don’t ever improve.

ALL tournaments will be about “abusing effective.” That’s what “playing to win” means, and if you’re in a tourney and not playing to win, why are you there?

That does not mean hard work isn’t a massive factor. I highly, highly doubt you personally would stand a chance against any of the tournament teams. Why? Because they worked at it and are better than you.

Good players do not play turret engi because they have massive flaws. The lack of stun break is a big one. No blocks.The fact they are an engi means they are easily dispatched with conditions. If you can intercept them away from a point, they cannot do much. They have terrible mobility. Turret engi is only good against medium to low level players.

someone.7485:

Good players do not play turret engi because they have massive flaws. The lack of stun break is a big one. No blocks.The fact they are an engi means they are easily dispatched with conditions. If you can intercept them away from a point, they cannot do much. They have terrible mobility. Turret engi is only good against medium to low level players.

it’s an effective scrub farmer. very good at tulling the soil of unranked.

choovanski.5462:

someone.7485:

Good players do not play turret engi because they have massive flaws. The lack of stun break is a big one. No blocks.The fact they are an engi means they are easily dispatched with conditions. If you can intercept them away from a point, they cannot do much. They have terrible mobility. Turret engi is only good against medium to low level players.

it’s an effective scrub farmer. very good at tulling the soil of unranked.

So is celestial dd ele or celestial rifle engi.

Royal.2693:

choovanski.5462:

someone.7485:

Good players do not play turret engi because they have massive flaws. The lack of stun break is a big one. No blocks.The fact they are an engi means they are easily dispatched with conditions. If you can intercept them away from a point, they cannot do much. They have terrible mobility. Turret engi is only good against medium to low level players.

it’s an effective scrub farmer. very good at tulling the soil of unranked.

So is celestial dd ele or celestial rifle engi.

Difference is, those builds are very effective at all levels of play. Turret engineers are not.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Royal.2693:

choovanski.5462:

someone.7485:

Good players do not play turret engi because they have massive flaws. The lack of stun break is a big one. No blocks.The fact they are an engi means they are easily dispatched with conditions. If you can intercept them away from a point, they cannot do much. They have terrible mobility. Turret engi is only good against medium to low level players.

it’s an effective scrub farmer. very good at tulling the soil of unranked.

So is celestial dd ele or celestial rifle engi.

Difference is, those builds are very effective at all levels of play. Turret engineers are not.

Exactly! So those builds should be nerfed first, and not turret engis.

Royal.2693:

choovanski.5462:

someone.7485:

Good players do not play turret engi because they have massive flaws. The lack of stun break is a big one. No blocks.The fact they are an engi means they are easily dispatched with conditions. If you can intercept them away from a point, they cannot do much. They have terrible mobility. Turret engi is only good against medium to low level players.

it’s an effective scrub farmer. very good at tulling the soil of unranked.

So is celestial dd ele or celestial rifle engi.

Not really. Celestial engineer is one of the strongest build in the game, but you can’t just pick one, set up the right traits and face roll everyone in unranked. You can only do that on turret engineer, and, on an even lower level of play, on power ranger.

TheFamster.7806:

Arenanet will only nerf/change specs that are played well in the high level competition. For example the stealth FGS rush was nerfed when one of the teams used it in stream tournaments to kill the lord in 5 seconds. Also the nightmare rune was changed when Phantaram was streaming and one of the devs asked in twitch chat if Noscoc was using nightmare runes. Same with might stacks, ele auto attack cancel, etc.

Given all the attention developers pay attention to high level and well known players while almost never listening to complains on forum, it is best for the entire community to encourage all players that attend ESL tournaments to run turret engies so that the match becomes 5v5 turret engie fest. Anet truly believes that balance patch must be done based on high level players, and if high level players do believe that turret engi spec should be done away, the only way to grab attention of balanced team is to actually have as many turret engies in competition to show how broken of spec it is.

I’m sure it won’t happen given the competitive and fair nature of high skilled GW2 players who are outraged because of dumb and broken spec of turret engies, but I feel like organizing turret engi day for ESL tournaments is the only way to actually make anet pay attention to players’ pleas.

don’t worry…turrets are coming to esl…sooner or later..and is gonna be fun..

^^ some people already tried to bring 3 turret engis in a tournament and they failed.

Archaon.9524:

TheFamster.7806:

Arenanet will only nerf/change specs that are played well in the high level competition. For example the stealth FGS rush was nerfed when one of the teams used it in stream tournaments to kill the lord in 5 seconds. Also the nightmare rune was changed when Phantaram was streaming and one of the devs asked in twitch chat if Noscoc was using nightmare runes. Same with might stacks, ele auto attack cancel, etc.

Given all the attention developers pay attention to high level and well known players while almost never listening to complains on forum, it is best for the entire community to encourage all players that attend ESL tournaments to run turret engies so that the match becomes 5v5 turret engie fest. Anet truly believes that balance patch must be done based on high level players, and if high level players do believe that turret engi spec should be done away, the only way to grab attention of balanced team is to actually have as many turret engies in competition to show how broken of spec it is.

I’m sure it won’t happen given the competitive and fair nature of high skilled GW2 players who are outraged because of dumb and broken spec of turret engies, but I feel like organizing turret engi day for ESL tournaments is the only way to actually make anet pay attention to players’ pleas.

don’t worry…turrets are coming to esl…sooner or later..and is gonna be fun..

I remember there was one team that almost beat radioactive with double turret engi. They used the bubbles to counter the liches, and it was an extremely close 2-1 set. First time I ever rooted for a turret engi.

celestial ele, engi, war been in every single tourney…. anet didn’t do anything

yes they did, they nerfed might and sigil of battle that all three builds rely on. It wasn’t nerfing to death but it did tone them down a touch.

Peutrifectus.4830:

yes they did, they nerfed might and sigil of battle that all three builds rely on. It wasn’t nerfing to death but it did tone them down a touch.

lol it didn’t even tickle…

Cynz.9437:

celestial ele, engi, war been in every single tourney…. anet didn’t do anything

You could say the same thing about thief, but knowing your post history, you wouldn’t.

glock.6590:

^^ some people already tried to bring 3 turret engis in a tournament and they failed.

Depends on how you look at failure. That turret team beat some more orthodox teams in the WTS qualifier.

ArthurDent.9538:

Archaon.9524:

TheFamster.7806:

Arenanet will only nerf/change specs that are played well in the high level competition. For example the stealth FGS rush was nerfed when one of the teams used it in stream tournaments to kill the lord in 5 seconds. Also the nightmare rune was changed when Phantaram was streaming and one of the devs asked in twitch chat if Noscoc was using nightmare runes. Same with might stacks, ele auto attack cancel, etc.

Given all the attention developers pay attention to high level and well known players while almost never listening to complains on forum, it is best for the entire community to encourage all players that attend ESL tournaments to run turret engies so that the match becomes 5v5 turret engie fest. Anet truly believes that balance patch must be done based on high level players, and if high level players do believe that turret engi spec should be done away, the only way to grab attention of balanced team is to actually have as many turret engies in competition to show how broken of spec it is.

I’m sure it won’t happen given the competitive and fair nature of high skilled GW2 players who are outraged because of dumb and broken spec of turret engies, but I feel like organizing turret engi day for ESL tournaments is the only way to actually make anet pay attention to players’ pleas.

don’t worry…turrets are coming to esl…sooner or later..and is gonna be fun..

I remember there was one team that almost beat radioactive with double turret engi. They used the bubbles to counter the liches, and it was an extremely close 2-1 set. First time I ever rooted for a turret engi.

there are stronger variants of dat reterded spec that the usual soldier guy running in circles like a chicken…way stronger ones. Ofc not gonna say anything on forum….for the skill it takes soldier turreterd engi is way more than enough already…i really don’t want to see more scrubs running even more powerful turretcrap builds that are actually able to hardcounter meta specs. They’re locked down until the right moment

Archaon.9524:

ArthurDent.9538:

Archaon.9524:

TheFamster.7806:

Arenanet will only nerf/change specs that are played well in the high level competition. For example the stealth FGS rush was nerfed when one of the teams used it in stream tournaments to kill the lord in 5 seconds. Also the nightmare rune was changed when Phantaram was streaming and one of the devs asked in twitch chat if Noscoc was using nightmare runes. Same with might stacks, ele auto attack cancel, etc.

Given all the attention developers pay attention to high level and well known players while almost never listening to complains on forum, it is best for the entire community to encourage all players that attend ESL tournaments to run turret engies so that the match becomes 5v5 turret engie fest. Anet truly believes that balance patch must be done based on high level players, and if high level players do believe that turret engi spec should be done away, the only way to grab attention of balanced team is to actually have as many turret engies in competition to show how broken of spec it is.

I’m sure it won’t happen given the competitive and fair nature of high skilled GW2 players who are outraged because of dumb and broken spec of turret engies, but I feel like organizing turret engi day for ESL tournaments is the only way to actually make anet pay attention to players’ pleas.

don’t worry…turrets are coming to esl…sooner or later..and is gonna be fun..

I remember there was one team that almost beat radioactive with double turret engi. They used the bubbles to counter the liches, and it was an extremely close 2-1 set. First time I ever rooted for a turret engi.

there are stronger variants of dat reterded spec that the usual soldier guy running in circles like a chicken…way stronger ones. Ofc not gonna say anything on forum….for the skill it takes soldier turreterd engi is way more than enough already…i really don’t want to see more scrubs running even more powerful turretcrap builds that are actually able to hardcounter meta specs. They’re locked down until the right moment

Like settler amulet with elixir gun, flame + rocket-turret?
Or Zerker s/d with rocket + rifle-turret?
Or cele nades with rocket + thumper- turret?
Or cleric bombhealer with thumper + rocket-turret?
Seen them all plus a bunch more, and even tho they are more mobile, they still get outperformed by the current meta, make yourself no illusions there…

Minions and pets simply need to scale with stats and be able to be crit and have conditions applied. This game has a real problem with inconsistent game rules that end up creating a lack of proper counter play. Also having accelerant packed turrets as a minor trait is just flat out insane.

Sweetbread.4701:

This game has a real problem with inconsistent game rules that end up creating a lack of proper counter play.

Turrets can’t crit.
Turrets don’t scale with your stats (except condi-dmg and duration, exactly like every other AI in the game as well).
Turrets, like all other class-AI can only be improved by traits.
Seems pretty fair to me.

In general:
Having problems with turreteers is a big L2P issue.
out-rotate them, get rid of the rocket turret, don’t fight on point, rush them with +1 or +2…
I mean – seriously – would you try to 1v1 a bunker guardian on point? Or a hambow? Even if you could kill him eventually, don’t you think your time would be wiser spend to 1-up the fights somewhere else?
You really can’t expect a-net to balance the game around people yelling for a nerf which fall to such n00b-tactics…

Sweetbread.4701:

Minions and pets simply need to scale with stats and be able to be crit and have conditions applied. This game has a real problem with inconsistent game rules that end up creating a lack of proper counter play. Also having accelerant packed turrets as a minor trait is just flat out insane.

They will need to rework some traits but if that happen turrets will able to gain boons or get healed by any player. They wouldn’t go as far as making them mobile which is the first reason why conditions and crit don’t work on them. Don’t say there is no counter play it exits it’s just it’s not in your comfort zone/spec.

Omg How the hell is everything still catch hell against them? You just find a mesmer(me) Throw a feedback bubble on the turrents and just throw conditions in there. The turrets along with anything inside that bubble will die in less then 3 seconds. Top of that ANYTHING with range won’t hurt you in.

I’m seeing more complaining about turrets now then I do with stealth on the thieves..

Build needs god kitten ed removed. Seriously sick of engi days, may as well rename it turret daily, since that is what almost every kitten engi is running on engi daily. kitten this build.

Arantheal.7396:

Archaon.9524:

ArthurDent.9538:

Archaon.9524:

TheFamster.7806:

Arenanet will only nerf/change specs that are played well in the high level competition. For example the stealth FGS rush was nerfed when one of the teams used it in stream tournaments to kill the lord in 5 seconds. Also the nightmare rune was changed when Phantaram was streaming and one of the devs asked in twitch chat if Noscoc was using nightmare runes. Same with might stacks, ele auto attack cancel, etc.

Given all the attention developers pay attention to high level and well known players while almost never listening to complains on forum, it is best for the entire community to encourage all players that attend ESL tournaments to run turret engies so that the match becomes 5v5 turret engie fest. Anet truly believes that balance patch must be done based on high level players, and if high level players do believe that turret engi spec should be done away, the only way to grab attention of balanced team is to actually have as many turret engies in competition to show how broken of spec it is.

I’m sure it won’t happen given the competitive and fair nature of high skilled GW2 players who are outraged because of dumb and broken spec of turret engies, but I feel like organizing turret engi day for ESL tournaments is the only way to actually make anet pay attention to players’ pleas.

don’t worry…turrets are coming to esl…sooner or later..and is gonna be fun..

I remember there was one team that almost beat radioactive with double turret engi. They used the bubbles to counter the liches, and it was an extremely close 2-1 set. First time I ever rooted for a turret engi.

there are stronger variants of dat reterded spec that the usual soldier guy running in circles like a chicken…way stronger ones. Ofc not gonna say anything on forum….for the skill it takes soldier turreterd engi is way more than enough already…i really don’t want to see more scrubs running even more powerful turretcrap builds that are actually able to hardcounter meta specs. They’re locked down until the right moment

Like settler amulet with elixir gun, flame + rocket-turret?
Or Zerker s/d with rocket + rifle-turret?
Or cele nades with rocket + thumper- turret?
Or cleric bombhealer with thumper + rocket-turret?
Seen them all plus a bunch more, and even tho they are more mobile, they still get outperformed by the current meta, make yourself no illusions there…

no settler’s zerk cleric or celestial

Arantheal.7396:

Sweetbread.4701:

This game has a real problem with inconsistent game rules that end up creating a lack of proper counter play.

Turrets can’t crit.
Turrets don’t scale with your stats (except condi-dmg and duration, exactly like every other AI in the game as well).
Turrets, like all other class-AI can only be improved by traits.
Seems pretty fair to me.

In general:
Having problems with turreteers is a big L2P issue.
out-rotate them, get rid of the rocket turret, don’t fight on point, rush them with +1 or +2…
I mean – seriously – would you try to 1v1 a bunker guardian on point? Or a hambow? Even if you could kill him eventually, don’t you think your time would be wiser spend to 1-up the fights somewhere else?
You really can’t expect a-net to balance the game around people yelling for a nerf which fall to such n00b-tactics…

actually any half decent player with any celestial spec can kill an hambow 1v1 with pretty much no effort….and bunker guardian shouldn’t be alone on point anyway…let alone bunker guard will never kill something 1v1

so you tell me that any half decent player has issues with turret engis?
okay^^

ArthurDent.9538:

Cynz.9437:

celestial ele, engi, war been in every single tourney…. anet didn’t do anything

You could say the same thing about thief, but knowing your post history, you wouldn’t.

that is not true, besides last 2 patches or so thieves been nerfed every single patch

thieves indeed had spot on about every comp but builds actually changed quite few times (if you actually played this game long enough and followed thief meta, you would know it)… you might argue that it was all dps builds but let’t be honest, anet never gave thieves anything viable in pvp that is not glass

also, in the past there were quite few teams that didn’t have a single thief on team

also, should i mention that stacking thieves actually hurts the team while stacking eles for example, doesn’t

Arantheal.7396:

so you tell me that any half decent player has issues with turret engis?
okay^^

i can name few top players (won/participated in ESL) that can’t stand turret engis and think that crap needs to go

Sagat.3285:

Sweetbread.4701:

Minions and pets simply need to scale with stats and be able to be crit and have conditions applied. This game has a real problem with inconsistent game rules that end up creating a lack of proper counter play. Also having accelerant packed turrets as a minor trait is just flat out insane.

They will need to rework some traits but if that happen turrets will able to gain boons or get healed by any player. They wouldn’t go as far as making them mobile which is the first reason why conditions and crit don’t work on them. Don’t say there is no counter play it exits it’s just it’s not in your comfort zone/spec.

There’s counterplay atm, but it’s obviously insufficient. This is more about specs being forced out of the game in general, because of inconsistent combat rules that create a lot of situational hard counters and a REALLY inconsistent sense of risk vs. reward among classes.

Cynz.9437:

ArthurDent.9538:

Cynz.9437:

celestial ele, engi, war been in every single tourney…. anet didn’t do anything

You could say the same thing about thief, but knowing your post history, you wouldn’t.

that is not true, besides last 2 patches or so thieves been nerfed every single patch

Thieves get lots of nerfs because the basic design is broken OP to the point it is unbalanceable, which is why bar the very rare exception like TP (who eventually switched to thief in order to win) virtually every top team has had a thief for the entirety of this game.

Unlike the three classes you are crying about, warriors were poorly represented in teams for a long time at the beginning of the game, the celestial meta is the first time engies have been tier 1 and a must have a pick in the way thieves, bunker guards, spirit rangers, hambow warrior, etc were at various times, and if you go to the 8 months or so prior to the cele / might runes patch eles were virtually non-existent, a position thief has never been in or anywhere close to.

And on the subject of nerfs, thieves need to lose the chip on the shoulder, thief is not the only class that gets nerfs mesmers have had plenty, engy was the most nerfed class in the game for the first 12 months or so, etc, and beyond that complaining about “nerfs” doesn’t make any logical sense, all that matters is the result, and the result of thief nerfs, is yet again both teams in the last big final (WTS) had a thief, which is pretty much the same as it has been all the way back to the first big final at PAX.

Nor have the nerfs changed the overriding issue with thief, that the basic design is way too good as a roamer & glassy build, to the point it prevents other classes even bothering, why play a static discharge engy or s/x ele when a thief will eat you alive and also do a better job roaming, +1’ing, etc, even mesmer suffers from the thief issue, people whine about bunker/bruiser builds in this game, one of the biggest reasons for that is thief destroys the option to go glassy for a lot of classes.

Ever nerfing thief is not the answer, certain things on the class simply need a redesign.

Arantheal.7396:

so you tell me that any half decent player has issues with turret engis?
okay^^

still has to play decent in order to beat someone that doesn’t even know how to dodge…and this is not as balance should be, a more skilled player should always win vs a less skilled one

I don’t understand how people think turret engineer is overpowered compared to the celestial rifle build.

Chase.8415:

I don’t understand how people think turret engineer is overpowered compared to the celestial rifle build.

Exactly. Celestial rifle is way stronger than turret. If it was the other way around than all the “top” teams would be running turrets instead. They are already running super cheesy builds, I’m sure they would run turrets too if they were strong enough.

“The fastest way to nerf turret engies”

Is to nerf it fast? Kappa

Countless

It’s sad how many players think turret’s are overpowered, and refuse to listen to people explaining their counters. It is true that they have some strengths, and one is being simpler to play, but that doesn’t make them a good build to play against organized teams that can easily exploit their weaknesses. What will actually happen, instead of nerfs, you will see people adapt to turrets. Stop charging points filled with turrets and attack the vulnerable points. This is the basics of tactics. Games don’t just lend to enjoyment, but teach us things as well. Use this as an opportunity to grow. If this game still had a “solo queue” I could see nerfing them slightly there. Unfortunately, since all modes can face teams, and communication is always an option via chat, nerfing turrets would push them out of existence.

Good luck.

Loboling.5293:

It’s sad how many players think turret’s are overpowered, and refuse to listen to people explaining their counters. It is true that they have some strengths, and one is being simpler to play, but that doesn’t make them a good build to play against organized teams that can easily exploit their weaknesses. What will actually happen, instead of nerfs, you will see people adapt to turrets. Stop charging points filled with turrets and attack the vulnerable points. This is the basics of tactics. Games don’t just lend to enjoyment, but teach us things as well. Use this as an opportunity to grow. If this game still had a “solo queue” I could see nerfing them slightly there. Unfortunately, since all modes can face teams, and communication is always an option via chat, nerfing turrets would push them out of existence.

Good luck.

Nah the saddest part is my team won’t follow what to do vs them of course I’m in solo queue or even sadder when both teams have one but the ops have a glass staff ele and I’m still in solo queue. How long will take them to get used to it?? The easier way is to QQ most still don’t know how to play TDM…

As I’ve said many times, the problem with turrets is an engineer problem overall. Engineer was poorly designed. (Please save me the subjective stuff, I’m well aware it’s an opinion) If you ask me, engineer should have been baseline 1 weapon and 1 kit (on the weapon swap button) and balance around that. Then substitute kits with a new set of utilities. Here’s the problems:

- Engineer is essentially forced into using kits. To have any normal amount of skills you have to have a kit.
- Kits WAY outshine other utilities.
- You can’t specialize in any other utilities heavily because you only end up with 1-2 utilities free after kits.
- if you DO manage to make a highly effective 0 kit build (Turrets) it gets shamed for being too easy.

As it stands, nothing but kit builds are able to work, which if you ask me, makes for a boring class, and anything else is (rightfully?) shamed.

So, moral of the story is, turrets are doomed to be hated regardless, engineer was built to have fairly little diversity and should have had kits built into the core of the class.

Feel free to discuss, just my 2 cents.

This one was also on page 3. Go, thread! Be free! Fly to page one and frolic with your brethren!

I keep telling this to people over and over. It would be incredibly easy to balance engis. Just remove the water field from healing turret. That’s all that needs to be done.

style.6173:

I keep telling this to people over and over. It would be incredibly easy to balance engis. Just remove the water field from healing turret. That’s all that needs to be done.

nah that would nerf all engi specs

just nerf all turrets aside from healing into oblivion and gg

Archaon.9524:

style.6173:

I keep telling this to people over and over. It would be incredibly easy to balance engis. Just remove the water field from healing turret. That’s all that needs to be done.

nah that would nerf all engi specs

just nerf all turrets aside from healing into oblivion and gg

Some might argue all Engi builds need a nerf there. HT has been a long standing master heal. After they did this they could actually buff some others, that’d be nice. Maybe even slightly buff the base heal to compensate (probably definitely needed)

style.6173:

I keep telling this to people over and over. It would be incredibly easy to balance engis. Just remove the water field from healing turret. That’s all that needs to be done.

An actual cast-time to make it interrupt-able would be a good start…

Archaon.9524:

style.6173:

I keep telling this to people over and over. It would be incredibly easy to balance engis. Just remove the water field from healing turret. That’s all that needs to be done.

nah that would nerf all engi specs

just nerf all turrets aside from healing into oblivion and gg

and how does this fix the cele rifle nade spamming spec? If they nerf turrets, virtually all engis will play that spec instead. It is super powerful and not very difficult to learn.

Engi sustain is the problem. Sustain is what gives turrets a chance to kill you, and gives nade spammers the chance to spam more nades.

The entire profession just needs to experience some of the “adjustments” that Thieves have over the past few years…