Guild Wars 2

90% of everyone using celestial ammy’s. Ele and engineer on every single team, no mesmers, the only warrior played was a shoutbow (imagine that) and EVERYONE was running sustain builds.

Besides the comeback (which would be exciting in any game) the game was just as dull to watch as it is to play in sPvP. Everyone playing 100% safe builds with no haymakers and a ton of conditions.

Where are the combined ability techniques we saw in the trailers when we bought the game? Why has warrior gone from the most versatile profession to being pigeonholed into an extremely dull support role?

The lack of diversity here is absolutely astonishing. It’s become no different from any other MMO- i was watching what people consider the best in the world do repetitive skill rotations. Does shoutbow or ele REALLY care about whats happening? It’s gone from being important to dodge, to completely abysmal.

Lets not forget that torches in general, rifle warriors, and summon necros are completely out of the picture from the game entirely, and that mesmers are an absolute mess of a profession with no actual purpose. Why are rangers more adept at fighting like a warrior than warrior? (6 second invulnerability? What the actual Fk?)

I hope the expansion breathes new life into this game as it’s currently a complete bore fest.

I think everyone, except ANET, has realized that cele has been OP for a long time. Instead ANET took the easy way out, and tried to change might stacking.

They really need a balance team.

I think they are trying to balance PvP around celestial and zerker.

3 celes + 2 or 1 zerker/condi class for that extra spike

I wouldn’t mind this celestial meta if they buffed the classes that dont do as well with celestial such as necro etc

Why has warrior gone from the most versatile profession to being pigeonholed into an extremely dull support role?

Sooo much this! i hate it that warrior is now a dull boring shout support pet.

ALL that warrior is good for is:

Aoe field for burning and getting might
> use shouts

Wow and thats the warrior these days.. from HEAVY dps to boring support build

style.6173:

I think everyone, except ANET, has realized that cele has been OP for a long time. Instead ANET took the easy way out, and tried to change might stacking.

They really need a balance team.

Are you….everyone?

-edit- sustain builds don’t bring the burst and don’t recover from burst easily…oRNG proved that.

/thread

60% =/= 90% OP

SobeSoul.6910:

60% =/= 90% OP

and now just image they get one more zerker , it would be 3 zerker 2 celestial !
holy kitten, my whole life is a lie… how would the forum reakt ?
“yeah theay are zerker monkeys , no skill at all, just one hit wonders, they like big numbers and no strategy!!1”
i´m looking forward to HoT and how the forums will cry about how OP revenat is , because as most know, if you win , you dont come here to cry , only if you lose

serious answer for warrior:
they have the best traits, try to play it in pvp and you will see
they heal a lot, bring a lot of boons, have a lot of interrupt, highest hp and armor before adding in traits and trinket

serous answer for mesmer:
their traits suck as in really suck, low to very low damage even on condition build, even if you use the “famous” PU build you still take too long to kill someone and that is before the nerf not counting on that other classes will bring condition remover.
their utilities suck for example: mantra: require 2 3/4 recharge every 2-3 use AND they have cooldown, utilities phantasm that require target, can be blind and require 1 1/2 activation time.
you are pretty much need to go glass cannon to do any significant of damage.
no real burst like other class, not counting shatter but that still require three illusion which are easily destroy.
thief food/buff, want to see the skill “save yourself” on thief? have a thief steal from mesmer
portal? wurm necro does it better
if you want a helpful team fight it is better to bring staff ele or power necro
and the list goes on

No much discussion going on here the entire thread has decayed into a profession-tribal tearfest. Too salty for me

Hlord.5940:

serious answer for warrior:
they have the best traits, try to play it in pvp and you will see
they heal a lot, bring a lot of boons, have a lot of interrupt, highest hp and armor before adding in traits and trinket

You even play PVP?

Who gives a kitten about highest HP or armor? lol thats the only reason warrior need something like healing signet because they lack EVERYTHING else that other classes do have

And warriors bring allot of boons?? WUT?

Ow and they have allot of intterupt? well not if you play the only build played right now (by ROM) shoutbow.. how many interrupts do you think it have??

Right..

Sure go and say warr have hambow, well too bad because that build is a joke now

Invoker.5462:

Ele and engineer on every single team, no mesmers, the only warrior played was a shoutbow (imagine that) …

Whilst I agree that it is lame, this sort of thing is nothing new, you had bunker guard on every single team for 2 years, you had a thief on virtually every team for 2 years, at various times for months on end you had other builds on every team (or very close to it) – spirit ranger, hambow warrior (it was not uncommon to see two on a team), etc.

@Nick
Sorry mate but sb. who is always talking about greatsword, burst warrior and physical utilities isn’t in the position to ask " do you even pvp"

Further it seems you didn’t really get what’s the key strength of the shoutwarrior. It’s not only the support he offers, he offers also a lot of immobilize which is super important when you focus targets.
Just rewatch the opening on legacy from oRNG , killing 5G immediatly – ROMs fear me and his immobilize were significant for tages and fraes burst.
Btw warriors always have been in a “supporter” – and “assist” – role, he never has been good in bursting, not even in 2012 with frenzy and 100b, people just didn’t know it back then.

dominik.9721:

Sorry mate but sb. who is always talking about greatsword, burst warrior and physical utilities isn’t in the position to ask " do you even pvp"

do you even pvp m8?

So people that only play meta build play pvp? when you try different builds or want different builds to succeed that player suddenly doesnt play pvp or doesnt know enough about pvp?

Doesnt make sense.

And nobody have to be in some kind of position to ask a question.

my dual sword/lb condi warrior is insulted by this thread

dominik.9721:

@Nick
Sorry mate but sb. who is always talking about greatsword, burst warrior and physical utilities isn’t in the position to ask " do you even pvp"
Further it seems you didn’t really get what’s the key strength of the shoutwarrior. It’s not only the support he offers, he offers also a lot of immobilize which is super important when you focus targets.
Just rewatch the opening on legacy from oRNG , killing 5G immediatly – ROMs fear me and his immobilize were significant for tage and frae.

do you even pvp m8?

Did i say the build is crap?
No i didnt

Read my post and you see its an reply to someone talking nonsense about warriors.

But if you want to talk about shoutbow, i agree the build is good. and its called a support build for a reason.
But that doesnt say warr is in a good position in total because warr is now pushed into this boring support build while almost every other build is becoming a joke.

Why don’t you all take this ‘discussion’ on warrior to that subforum? It added nothing to the original discussion and if it is as important as all that perhaps it needs its own thread.

Invoker.5462:

90% of everyone using celestial ammy’s. Ele and engineer on every single team, no mesmers, the only warrior played was a shoutbow (imagine that) and EVERYONE was running sustain builds.

Celestial Amulet needs to be boosted.
Abjured being rekt 115 to 500 is a solid proof.

Invoker.5462:

Besides the comeback (which would be exciting in any game) the game was just as dull to watch as it is to play in sPvP. Everyone playing 100% safe builds with no haymakers and a ton of conditions.

Everyone can play whatever build they want. No one stops them from playing zerk builds or any other.

Invoker.5462:

Where are the combined ability techniques we saw in the trailers when we bought the game? Why has warrior gone from the most versatile profession to being pigeonholed into an extremely dull support role?

You’re talking about Combo Fields?
Field + Blast = Combo
And yet till today, after 2 years, barely 10% of whole community know how to use them. Matter of l2p and use in action.
And Combo fields should be optional as they are now, not mandatory or OP in any kind.

Invoker.5462:

The lack of diversity here is absolutely astonishing. It’s become no different from any other MMO- i was watching what people consider the best in the world do repetitive skill rotations. Does shoutbow or ele REALLY care about whats happening? It’s gone from being important to dodge, to completely abysmal.

So far, you have much wider diversity here than other MMOs. And “Meta” isn’t the best or a must.

Lets not forget that torches in general, rifle warriors, and summon necros are completely out of the picture from the game entirely, and that mesmers are an absolute mess of a profession with no actual purpose. Why are rangers more adept at fighting like a warrior than warrior? (6 second invulnerability? What the actual Fk?)

Torches in general?
Say it to PU Mesmer.
Say it to Condi Ranger.
Or Guardian.
Rifle? Today with guild we trolled blobs in wvw with Kill Shots. As it hits there for 15k+, it easily spanks for 9k in arena.
How rangers are more adept in fighting than a warrior? Signet of stone doesn’t give invulnerability, it work the same as Endure Pain(Warrior’s Stance).

And Mesmer has no purpose just like Guardian. Useless classes.
“Passive: Improves toughness for you and your pet.
Active: You and your pet takes no damage from attacks.You and your pet are still susceptible to conditions and control effects.

I hope the expansion breathes new life into this game as it’s currently a complete bore fest.

I advise to start learning game mechanics, skills, traits, passives etc anew.
It should be entertaining till expansion’s release.

This is like whining that players in football world cup have better football shoes than i have.

The celestial concept is great – an amulet that is ok at everything – but the implementation is awfull.

Such a generic amulet will obviously become the most played. If you make it too tanky, the games are going to become boring.

Anet should rellocate most of the stats to make it less tanky while keeping the total numbers.

Less toughness, less healing. More power, more precision.

Marcos.3690:

The celestial concept is great – an amulet that is ok at everything – but the implementation is awfull.

Such a generic amulet will obviously become the most played. If you make it too tanky, the games are going to become boring.

Anet should rellocate most of the stats to make it less tanky while keeping the total numbers.

Less toughness, less healing. More power, more precision.

Are you sure it’s not the player’s choice of traits, active defenses and lack of hard boon hate…?

Problem isn’t the amulet, it’s the classes(eng and ele) and the fact thief makes all zerker builds except guardian nearly unviable.

Ele is awfully designed and it has been a balance problem since launch. It’s either too bad or too good.

And it will be as long as they are forced to spend 30 in water and 30 in arcana because other traitlines suck

Shiyo.3578:

Problem isn’t the amulet, it’s the classes(eng and ele) and the fact thief makes all zerker builds except guardian nearly unviable.

I wish people understood this. If it was the amulet you’d see Necromancers and stuff use it to much greater success. There was some merit to the might nerf. Might has been OTT in PVE for a long time, and celestial builds that did particularly well (for the most part) were ones who could stack really high might so that they had unusual offense for a hybrid build. Not only for power or conditions but both. That said, it wasn’t enough. Things need to be looked at in the core of Engi/Ele, and maybe a little bit warrior to fix the power of celestial builds.

Marcos.3690:

Ele is awfully designed and it has been a balance problem since launch. It’s either too bad or too good.

And it will be as long as they are forced to spend 30 in water and 30 in arcana because other traitlines suck

Not really that the traitlines suck, more than the entire class is balanced around having HORRIBLE base hp and survivability and relies on traits/utilities, so you’ll pretty much always be 30 water/arcane and 2-3 cantrips for the rest of your life. Why did anet think this was a good idea?

ronpierce.2760:

Shiyo.3578:

Problem isn’t the amulet, it’s the classes(eng and ele) and the fact thief makes all zerker builds except guardian nearly unviable.

I wish people understood this. If it was the amulet you’d see Necromancers and stuff use it to much greater success. There was some merit to the might nerf. Might has been OTT in PVE for a long time, and celestial builds that did particularly well (for the most part) were ones who could stack really high might so that they had unusual offense for a hybrid build. Not only for power or conditions but both. That said, it wasn’t enough. Things need to be looked at in the core of Engi/Ele, and maybe a little bit warrior to fix the power of celestial builds.

Condition corruption necro was supposed to own celes help him out and about stats it’s not like they don’t go into sustain lines despite having so much cough cough extra defensive stats. Let’s see how they rebalance classes before HoT.

dd ele is the worst thing in the world to watch as a spectator imo. I’d honestly rather have cleric guardians back.

Would you rather watch glass vs glass or condi vs condi matchups?
oRNG proved that sustainable builds can get bursted down, quite easily, if done right. It didn’t look like Celestial vs Celestial at all.

As far as the mechanics you don’t like, it’s been in the game for 2+ years. That’s likely not going to change.

I’ll be the first to say that I was wrong about these certain classes that I thought were OP. Clearly from the tournament, they can be outplayed given the right comp.

Personally I prefer this middle-ground approach. I’d rather everyone not die in 1-2 second bursts, able to watch a point or go offense a bit depending on the situation.

Talking about mechanics….what’s worst?

A) Stealth burst that kill you in seconds with no tells?
B) AI/Pets doing the dmg for you while you stay at range?
C) Spamming conditions with little effort as you have multiple condis linked to skill1?
D) Huge sustain?
E) Absurd amounts of CC?

Tell me which class you play…and I will tell you which option appears the most balanced to you and which meta was the most “balanced” during the brief GW2 PvP history

this mechanic is the best :>

The mechanic above doesn’t exist anymore as it was ruled out by the introduction of all mechanics mentioned in my previous post( especially mechanic A).
Actually the truth is that a couple of mechanics have been shaping the face of GW2 Pvp..since launch, we all know that but …you know?!

Invoker.5462:

90% of everyone using celestial ammy’s. Ele and engineer on every single team, no mesmers, the only warrior played was a shoutbow (imagine that) and EVERYONE was running sustain builds.

Because it’s conquest? And what you listed is currently meta for, conquest. Implement Death match Arena, max 3v3 and I be you you won’t see warriors playing only Shoutbow.

People try to change the classes based on a single game mode, which favors the classes and the builds we have today.

I don’t understand why Anet limited it self on a single dominant Pvp game mode. Please, we need a real arena mode.

Altough Courtyard exists, it’s a small scale zerg fest. Limit it to 3v3’s max and make it a map which doesn’t favor neither mobility neither area denial, no spots to hide, pure Death match 3 out of 3.

@Shiyo.3578

Anet is fully aware of everything you’ve stated….and they won’t change it, they officially said so. In the end yes, ele will remain 30 water/arcana and cantrips till the end of this game cycle, everything else outside of these traitlines and set of utilities, get trashed in a couple of seconds

@Marcos.3690

I hope that ele specialization will bring new life to the class, something that will compete against water/arcana combo with a different twist

-sustain through heavy control
-viable zerker build ( comparable to med guardian)

Something like that

Supreme.3164:

@Marcos.3690

I hope that ele specialization will bring new life to the class, something that will compete against water/arcana combo with a different twist

-sustain through heavy control
-viable zerker build ( comparable to med guardian)

Something like that

we can only dream

You guys highly overestimate the actual amount of skill it takes to play a Zerker comp. I was watching M_oobs play the other day in the AWO tourney vs a 4 DPS comp (SF Ele, Thief, Mesmer, Cele Engi(Engi is DPS IMO)+ DD Ele point holder), it essentially came down to him random dodging all over the place hoping he wouldn’t get instagibbed because half the time they were all in stealth. In a game like that if you eat 1 CC you die. Does that actually take skill? I don’t think so. I used to think that Zerker classes took the most skill and had the highest skillcap in the game. In some ways that’s true, but after playing Shortbow and DD ele extensively, there’s definitely a level of play in a “bunker” build thats different from playing a Zerker class. You really learn how to keep track of your allies, how to keep their health up, the amount of conditions they have, peels, etc and by learning to do those kinda of things it really improved me as a player because I later started using offensive peels when I went back to Thief. This is probably really off topic, but it’s just dumb that people think cele is faceroll and easy. Celestial is definitely healthy for the game, this meta requires the most skill of any other meta by far.

When people say this. I just ask, why aren’t you making a team to give a new amazing comp of condi bombs and zerk haymakers. Does it take skill to run it? Yes. But it takes skill to run any build and to run a self sustained build just allows the team to be better overall. If you come out and bring 1 condi ranger, condi necro, bunker guard, and zerk mesmer/thief then do it. But meta is meta. People will use the best builds to be the best player. It’s simple as that.

This is an RPG, there should be numerous viable playstyles and builds(bunker, bruiser, glass cannon, ranged, condition, support, etc), the problem is when one single class or two has complete monopoly over a playstyle. Example: Thief makes pretty much all glass cannons essentially unviable and a liability.

Or, bruisers completely overshadow support, pure condition specs(arguably) and bunkers.

Why Is everybody insisting that thief makes zerkers inviable?
I run a zerker s/d engi and rek thiefs all night long. Sometimes even 2v1. No I’m not playing mister-big-balls here, and I’m definitively not one of the best engis out there, but seriously, playing s/d against thieves (be it d/d d/p, s/d, trickery, condi, it really doesn’t matter) is pure face-rolling, be it hotjoin, ranked or unranked. And the fact that I can burn pretty much everything -except high sustain specs – from 100 to 0 in less than 2 seconds makes me a viable part of any comp that you can think of.
Still, there are hard-counters for this build as well, luckily none of which are considered meta, therefore I rarely meet them.

So yea, I don’t see the reasons for thieves ruining all other classes’ zerker builds. Maybe you should run them more often to see for yourselves.

Thieves “hard counter” other classes zerker builds in one of three senses.

1) The majority of zerker builds, like Shatter mesmer, power ranger and s/f ele get destroyed by the thief .

2) In cases where a zerker build has an advantage against a thief (eg. meditation guardian), the thief’s vastly superior mobility allows it to outrotate the other zerker.

3) Even if we’re talking about a zerker build that has pretty good mobility AND can outfight the thief, the thief’s unparalleled ability to disengage from any fight makes it better for team skirmishes, as it can actually survive.

Thieves do their job (roamer, backcapping and shutting down other squishies) far better than every other class in the game. That is why they make other zerker builds unviable. In a game mode where teams usually have one, at most two, spots on the team for a zerker, thieves will always be the first pick.

There is only one class that has always been mandatory in every PvP group. Yet, until this thread, I have never seen people complain about it. Kind of interesting.

well dankening didn’t play safe builds and they had a power ranger, it’s all great fun. but they got annihilated, and even struggled with the Chinese team.

but to your point, yes, cele engi/ele makes many other builds obsolete.

Lopez.7369:

There is only one class that has always been mandatory in every PvP group. Yet, until this thread, I have never seen people complain about it. Kind of interesting.

there was only 1 mandatory class in the past and it was bunk guard.

it was 100% better back then, instead of this self sustain sheet we have right now.

Game in this case definitely favours players with better builds than skill, it was always like that, you can not judge people for running the best kitten game offers to them, it is simple like that, if you wanna win you can tryhard as much as you can with something what is currenty not overpowered and broken but you will not be able to achieve something like that even with absolute 100% concentration, you will be punished for one mistake.

I think that the competition and number of teams that are “top” proves what people think about the meta and everything that is happening currently, there are not many left who are trying to have “fun” or to compete in one pvp game mode game offers, simply because people do not have the diversity and real focus to do something like that, balance patch comes once in a 6 months, no new good maps since Temple of the Silent Storm, no good rating system, leaderboard is far from anything that can be used as a proof of skill..

I just wish that maybe, we can start over with the new expansion and Stronghold, that looks imo interesting but, after all what happened in the past, my hopes are low. And i really used to love this game and everything, but since Devs are just laughing in the videos i dont think there is being taken anything seriously from the competitive perspective of the game, it is forgotten how popular the game, as for the PvP, was at the start and how it looks now, all new good teams are just veteran players grouping with other veteran players..

Maylo.5892:

Game in this case definitely favours players with better builds than skill, it was always like that, you can not judge people for running the best kitten game offers to them, it is simple like that, if you wanna win you can tryhard as much as you can with something what is currenty not overpowered and broken but you will not be able to achieve something like that even with absolute 100% concentration, you will be punished for one mistake.

It’s impossible to make 10/10 balance in a game with build diversity. You want a game where skill only matters? Go play FPS games. No builds, only skill and knowledge about game matters.
In Gw2 if someone does choose a build that is harder to operate but effective on it’s own and finally know how to play it, then it means he has raised a difficult level for himself. There is always a build that treat other one like a rag bag, but itself turns into a rag bag for another build. There is no hermetic scaling level for builds. It’s circular.

Maylo.5892:

I think that the competition and number of teams that are “top” proves what people think about the meta and everything that is happening currently, there are not many left who are trying to have “fun” or to compete in one pvp game mode game offers, simply because people do not have the diversity and real focus to do something like that, balance patch comes once in a 6 months, no new good maps since Temple of the Silent Storm, no good rating system, leaderboard is far from anything that can be used as a proof of skill..

Because people aren’t interested in it?
Anet believe that WTS will promote it and people will get hyped and join for it.
No.
There is Justin who comes with metrics, numbers etc. and say current Matchmaking is okay.
Sorry, I made a new Gw2 account today. Won 1 match, after that I got into queue with Rank 80s and premade teams.
Because metrics and numbers….no?
People are fed up with matchmaking system and not balance issues.
In old system it took less than 1 min to join SoloQ – bit longer for TeamQ.
Now you’re waiting roughly for ~5mins.

Maylo.5892:

I just wish that maybe, we can start over with the new expansion and Stronghold, that looks imo interesting but, after all what happened in the past, my hopes are low. And i really used to love this game and everything, but since Devs are just laughing in the videos i dont think there is being taken anything seriously from the competitive perspective of the game, it is forgotten how popular the game, as for the PvP, was at the start and how it looks now, all new good teams are just veteran players grouping with other veteran players..

Game is in stagnation for a long time.
Expansion will change it.
Question is for how long – half a year max?
I’m actually disappointed, because they’re introducing some new skills and new skill system while they refuse to fix old skills.

Maylo.5892:

I just wish that maybe, we can start over with the new expansion and Stronghold, that looks imo interesting but, after all what happened in the past, my hopes are low. And i really used to love this game and everything, but since Devs are just laughing in the videos i dont think there is being taken anything seriously from the competitive perspective of the game, it is forgotten how popular the game, as for the PvP, was at the start and how it looks now, all new good teams are just veteran players grouping with other veteran players..

Why, why, why are people so insistant on using finals to prove that celestial is balanced / unbalanced? oRng and abjured ran the exact same ammount of cele builds. Necro is not a sustain class, it is burst just like mes thief guard and so on. Still i see so many people trying to justify celestial amu by saying “orng proved burst is better than cele stacking”. No, they did not. 6/10 was cele in finals and 3/10 zerker and 1/10 carrion (im guessing).

Not sure all the hate for builds and finals? Yes the last match was a stomp, likely Adjourned was tilted. They haven’t lost matches in quite a long time and pro teams aren’t so much about builds to kill as it is about player movement and reactions on the map. You don’t need zerker burst builds in competitive play you need to play the points correctly and get downs off the point at the moment. Builds will always change with class balance, do we so easily forget when hambow was in its prime? Huge burst, cc, unkillable warriors… spirit rangers that never died. Outside of competitive gaming, almost any build works in soloQ and I’m pretty sure not everyone here is running with a 5 man premade.

For the record the matches between Adj vs Orng before the finals were stunning as was their first match. This game has better pvp than most mmorpgs atm, try to enjoy the game and understand builds will come and go, they won’t change as fast as you would like because development and class balance takes longer than you understand.

Nebulizer.3276:

Not sure all the hate for builds and finals? Yes the last match was a stomp, likely Adjourned was tilted. They haven’t lost matches in quite a long time and pro teams aren’t so much about builds to kill as it is about player movement and reactions on the map. You don’t need zerker burst builds in competitive play you need to play the points correctly and get downs off the point at the moment. Builds will always change with class balance, do we so easily forget when hambow was in its prime? Huge burst, cc, unkillable warriors… spirit rangers that never died. Outside of competitive gaming, almost any build works in soloQ and I’m pretty sure not everyone here is running with a 5 man premade.

For the record the matches between Adj vs Orng before the finals were stunning as was their first match. This game has better pvp than most mmorpgs atm, try to enjoy the game and understand builds will come and go, they won’t change as fast as you would like because development and class balance takes longer than you understand.

I like to call these types of responses “artificial sweetener”. You just typed a completely biased 3 paragraphs and told us things we already know.

Sure- i can make toolkit+elixer rifle work in SoloQ with the elixir elite (no turrets). This is all about consistency. Heck, i still role rifle/hammer warrior in SoloQ even though its prolly the worst tradeoff for power and mobility known to man. The problem is that some of the traits related to certain weapons or lack therof is not only bad, its blatant. Some of these mechanics lead me to beleive that the developers follow the same philosophy of a TCG and have 40% of everything completely abysmal and make a few things super good.

Thus you have all of this complexity to make it seem like a vast system when in reality you could simply cross out about half the possibilities or more, take whats left, and then find that only 5% of that actually works well.

they had 1 year to change celestion, they did nothing and i am sure nothing will change till xpac because oh oh specialisations… jk engis will still have too much of everything, eles will still randomly mash buttons and don’t give flying kitten about anything… everyone else will just reroll in those 2