Guild Wars 2

People are seriously overreacting.

It seems they’ve forgotten how conditions were pre-june patch.

Engi is balanced ( too stronk to be fair, but mostly due to its utility, not its damage)

Spirit ranger are faceroll but not broken ( stronk, but counterable , the only broken thing is spirit ress)

Necros are meta-ruling ( they’re defining the meta, and mostly due to them having TOO MANY conditions, at range, with easy access [proc ] unlike engis who needs melee to be fully effective)

The solution is way simple: dhuumfire needs to go, and they shouldn’t even replace it with torment, it needs to go LITERALLY ( because it creates too much condi stacking).

Burning on proc needs to be NERFED HARD, like dhuumfire was, both incendiary powder and sun spirit, and it should become something you can DODGE so you can react to it ( more on the line of " next 2-3 attacks will cause 1 sec of burning" buff, so your opponent can look at the buff and dodge the kittening burning)

The meta has been fixed, enjoy.

or 50% nerf burn damage and 33% nerf bleed damage
That is how Anet corrected burst damage d / d thieves.

They didn’t nerf the theif by gutting ALL power damage.

Game. Set. Match.
+1.
Community didn’t stress about Necros to this extent before. Now they’re in limelight have to rip up entire condition mechanic? People lost it.

The more I play the more I think condition is fine… stop QQing.

Before condi builds were a laughing stock and a running joke.

100b, eviscerate, killshot, heartseeker, backstab, unload, spatial surge, ilusionary duelist, burning speed, whirling wrath, and more and more skills disagree of opening post

One of the problems of the condition build is that to reach the top damage whit conditions you need only 1 stat = Condition Damage.
To reach the top DD power, you need 3 stat = power, precision, critical damage.

A Condition build obtain power, condition damage and vitality and it’s at it’s top damage. But whit higi hp! (or precision, condition, toughness, but it’s the same result)
A DD build need a berserker equip to reach the top damage. Very high damage, but zero defence. Low Hp, low Toughness, too easy to kill.
You can try to use a Knight, obtaining high vitality/toughness (sPvP and PvE/WvsW), but you lose a high amount of damage and don’t reach the damage of the conditions.

And a DD need to hit the enemy to deal damage, a CD can run away, use defensive skills, evade, while the enemy die.

And whit condition Fields you can make combos that increase your condition spam ability.

Conditions give some good bonus. Poison reduce the enemy healing ability, chill don’t deal damage but reduce movement and increase skill recharge, burn deal a very high damage (2k in 3 sec) etc.

You can apply different conditions at the enemy and it suffer for every of it at the same time. Whit Burning, Poison and 10 stack of Bleedins, a player can lose 5k hp in 3 sec, or more.

Conditions damage is not affected by defensive boons or ability. They can be cleaned, but at limited number and rate of time. And for a CD class isn’t difficult re-apply bleed, burn and poison.
Direct Damage suffer passive ability like signet, or boons like Protection, that reduce the damage of 33%. And a 33% of damage reduction is a very high .
A Guardian can reduce the direct damage of 43 just by signet and protection.

That make Conditions a more good choice for pvp than direct damage, if your class can do it well. Because not all the classes can do it well. Only Necro, Ranger, Engi, Thief and Mesmer can do it well. War, Guardian and ele can’t reach the CD power of the other classes. That’s the only reason they’ve the best DD of the game.

Silv, on top of being wrong and your argument debunked dozens of times before, the entire statement is like saying “Bicycles are faster than motorbikes because you only need Foot Power to reach the top speed, whereas motorcycles need quality gas, a high-power engine, and an aerodynamic shape to reach top speed”.

That metaphor isn’t really accurate because there’s no sacrifice implemented.

The statement’s more like, brick houses are better than straw houses because they don’t get wrecked by the smallest disturbances, but they both get the job done in terms of shelter.

Honestly, condition damage would not be a problem if condition builds had to sacrifice the amount of defense that burst builds do. Necromancers literally can be up to 2-3 times tankier than a burst build light armor class, but still burst for approximately the same or more DPS with conditions, while extremely limiting your mobility via chill and fear chains. It just doesn’t make sense.

I intentionally chose an inaccurate metaphor to outline the failure of the original post.

Zeon.8239:

That metaphor isn’t really accurate because there’s no sacrifice implemented.

The statement’s more like, brick houses are better than straw houses because they don’t get wrecked by the smallest disturbances, but they both get the job done in terms of shelter.

Honestly, condition damage would not be a problem if condition builds had to sacrifice the amount of defense that burst builds do. Necromancers literally can be up to 2-3 times tankier than a burst build light armor class, but still burst for approximately the same or more DPS with conditions, while extremely limiting your mobility via chill and fear chains. It just doesn’t make sense.

sigh, this is the problem: people don’t understabd this game at all

the problem is NOT how tanky condi builds are ( pre- patch a mesmer, thief and ele could EASILY withstand the pressure of condi proffs, unless we are talking about bomb engis in melee, then it was their fault for overextending), the problem is CONDITION STACKING (or rather condi spam): too many condition that you’re not even able to know WHEN to cleanse amd and WHAT you should cleanse, in th end it doesn’t even matter since the same stuff will be thrown again in few seconds by random, uncounterable, procs ( burning, the most powerful condition in the game, ON A RANDOM AND UNCOUNTERABLE PROC, WTF ANET).

condis are bursting because you can’t cleanse them effectively due to procs, which promote spamming and give you no counterplay.

A mesmer with null field COULD CONSISTENTLY DEFEAT a spirit ranger as long as he knew when burning will be applied ( dodging subsequently), same for eles ( even if I believe there are effective ele builds which can be played, but ele players are too sturdy and absolutely feel the need for those 30 points in arcana).

The condition meta is totally caused by spamming and spamming is totally caused by passive procs.

fix this and gw2 will be skillbased again

I’m not sure I understand what the issue is, yes condi beats direct damage, for 1 very simple reason, most condi builds are very strong defensively. Most DD builds are glass or next to it.

I can tell you as a ranger you have to load up on toughness and the talent tree that has toughness for any pvp build. I see this as one of the main issues, with pvp build diversity. You either load up on defense or your easy to kill, I kind of wish these options were not available. It should be everyones the same except for armour class, from there you take some defensive abilities and maybe some traits that makes you different.

Also spirits or not ranger is easy to play, the class would need a complete redo to be made “more difficult to play” I would rather things just be changed a bit I’m fine with alittle more difficult, but as a more or less casual player I’m pretty happy that I can be competitive by being smart.

Also as a Ranger player it took me 5 minutes to learn Necro and Warrior.

I agree a god way to fix passive burning proc is an icon which says when burning is coming, so if u dodge/block/etc. burning miss and cd starts.

DevO.9854:

Also spirits or not ranger is easy to play, the class would need a complete redo to be made “more difficult to play” I would rather things just be changed a bit I’m fine with alittle more difficult, but as a more or less casual player I’m pretty happy that I can be competitive by being smart.

Also as a Ranger player it took me 5 minutes to learn Necro and Warrior.

lol try to play a power ranger without Empathetic bond ( or even with it) then come back here and say it again

Actually wouldnt change the stupidly easy play as it is currently. The system needs overhaul …everything should be counterable and not only by lucky dodges.

Marduh.4603:

or 50% nerf burn damage and 33% nerf bleed damage
That is how Anet corrected burst damage d / d thieves.

Any good player doesn’t die con dmg and you want nerf it. At least let us kill crappy players.

Mrbig.8019:

DevO.9854:

Also spirits or not ranger is easy to play, the class would need a complete redo to be made “more difficult to play” I would rather things just be changed a bit I’m fine with alittle more difficult, but as a more or less casual player I’m pretty happy that I can be competitive by being smart.

Also as a Ranger player it took me 5 minutes to learn Necro and Warrior.

lol try to play a power ranger without Empathetic bond ( or even with it) then come back here and say it again

That makes no sense, what is difficult about playing a power ranger? Playing a build that is not smart and not viable and not doing well, does not mean its hard to play.
Please inform me of what difficult combonation of skills you use, which makes it hard to play?

Also the same thing could be said about Spirit ranger, play a spirit ranger without any armour on, you will lose, but its not any harder to play it.

So, how stupid easy it is to apply, and spam condis should not be changed? Needless to say how most of the condi classes right now, have huge aoe radius on their condi spam, oh and how Anet thought it would just be a lovely idea to make greater marks larger therefore easier to spam condis.

This is actually the problem with condition damage, because the only power builds that spam, are thieves, and only bad thieves spam their damage. And most power builds do not have wide aoes, that can cover an entire point.

DevO.9854:

Mrbig.8019:

DevO.9854:

Also spirits or not ranger is easy to play, the class would need a complete redo to be made “more difficult to play” I would rather things just be changed a bit I’m fine with alittle more difficult, but as a more or less casual player I’m pretty happy that I can be competitive by being smart.

Also as a Ranger player it took me 5 minutes to learn Necro and Warrior.

lol try to play a power ranger without Empathetic bond ( or even with it) then come back here and say it again

That makes no sense, what is difficult about playing a power ranger? Playing a build that is not smart and not viable and not doing well, does not mean its hard to play.
Please inform me of what difficult combonation of skills you use, which makes it hard to play?

Also the same thing could be said about Spirit ranger, play a spirit ranger without any armour on, you will lose, but its not any harder to play it.

lol wot

if you can land a well tought hilt bash with GS, specced with moment of clarity, you can hit maul for 8k

Moment of clarity builds are all about interrupts at the right time in order to do damage ( something ridicolously difficult, and ithout the right trade off), including point blank shot.

You need to time your “burst” ( sword 1 spam with haste, something now it’s even harder due to anet smart balance on the BM tree), cripple in order to make your damage to land, time your skills, immobilize and kite perfectly just to do mediocre damage at best.

yet you can beat almost everyone, but are absolutely NOT VIABLE due to the OP AoE spam currently the meta is filled of ( and needs in order to be viable).

what you’re saying is basically " why should i play something which actually requires skill instead of going full faceroll ? ".

It’s the same with D/P thieves: mediocre at best when compared with S/D, but require TONS more skill to be played.

eles are hard to play, warriors WERE hard to play, burst thieves are hard to play, mesmer is hard to play, necros WERE hard to play.

Now aforementioned classes cannot be played due to faceroll builds ( aside war and necro), but could be used and played at high level.

I don’t play a condition necro, I don’t find them strong enough in 1v1 to cause any reliable pressure when assaulting a far point.

As a Necro main (well before the 6/25 patch), I would be fine with Dhuumfire being completely removed. It’s not really a fun trait, it’s just spam and profit.

I think if they did replace it with Torment, but seriously reduced the damage Torment causes to stationary targets, it could be a good change. That way there is counterplay to a Necro’s conditions in that if you stop moving you are taking far less damage.

Roe.3679:

As a Necro main (well before the 6/25 patch), I would be fine with Dhuumfire being completely removed. It’s not really a fun trait, it’s just spam and profit.

I think if they did replace it with Torment, but seriously reduced the damage Torment causes to stationary targets, it could be a good change. That way there is counterplay to a Necro’s conditions in that if you stop moving you are taking far less damage.

I dont play this game atm and wont till they fix it and haven’t really been reading the forums either.

However, dont forget how this necro buff came about. necro was not great pre patch. But it wasnt because necro sucked. It was because other classes had OP stuff. Mainly a necro couldnt load enough conditions onto a target to cope with the OP condition removal that is given to ele, guardian and ranger. You couldnt touch a ranger 1 on 1 because you only really had 3 conditions and all those disappeared to the PASSIVE and no skill emphatic bond before they can do anything. Otherwise you also had healing spring. Ele condi removal is also over the top with alot of synergy. And guardian shouts with the runes was absolutly ridicoulous condition removal. Espicially with removal on virute and renwed virtues elite. Again a necro couldnt touch a bunker guardian pre patch.

So what did they do? Instead of nerfing all this condition removal they mega buffed necro so you now win by just SPAMMING all your conditions to overwhelm these insane condition removals. That is terrible design and not fun.

So then what? Well they decided to buff loads of other condition removal like mesmer null field or berserker stance (to differing degrees) to match the necro. Now if they nerf conditions then conditions will be even worse than before the necro patch. And still based on spam. because condi removal is so strong. Especially condi removal which can be traited for and so does not effect the skills a player uses really.

Seriously, I suggest giving up on this game. I promise you they will continue their “create builds” approach. Which basically means making more and more stuff ridiculously OP and without counter play (i.e. berserker stance change and the necro changes). Instead they should be nerfing everything more or less. And there is a large difference. The change in balance between classes mite be the same by buffing or nerfing everything. But the game dynamics by making everything amazing and OP can only be lame.

So yeh. They now cannot remove dhumfire. It is all necros have. Necros have to spam to win. But if they remove it then they wont be able to spam as well and so they wont win. Literally there are about 30 skills and traits I can think of which need to be nerfed to reduce the spam and make the game fun. And also AI needs to be a pve mechanic or something which has a low power cap due to be easy to play (spirt spam rangers)

Sad to here you quit but actually me and alot of players I spoke to will follow you in the next weeks. Once this game was a little bit about skill…currently its just spamming.
Every thing started with the “biggest patch in gw2 history” and actually I agree if they dont revert all skills to that date and start to balance from that point on, this game will have no future because instead of nerfing alot of skills they just buff unviable classes into the sky. Its easier, its faster, its more resource friendly then thinking about skills of all classes.

I agree with the OP. Its not conditions themselves its some professions have way too much access to reapply, long duration, no real skill required to land, etc.

I used to love PVP in this game, lately I just log in to GvG with the guild because the meta is so incredibly boring but hotjoin is just a roflstomp. So its either no challenge or deal with all the cheese. Since neither is too enjoyable and games should be fun, I just don’t bother atm.

^ Thanks, but I’m not going to give up on this game. I’ve played other MMOs and no matter what anyone else may think, this is far more balanced than anything I’ve seen before, even if all builds aren’t viable. I’ve played GW2 as a necro since before launch and had a lot of success with it – without Dhuumfire – and I still have plenty of success now… without Dhuumfire. Perhaps TPvP Necros need it, but I don’t for my playstyle which is still a condition spec.

I do agree with you that things need to be more active. I remember fighting a BM ranger before the 6/25 patch and never really touching him, which was no fun. But spamming 1 and proccing a huge burning condition isn’t fun, either. I would trade it for almost anything in a heartbeat. That’s why I suggested replacing it with Torment with a tweak to how much damage it does when you don’t move. It’s one less cover condition with burning gone, and anyone could reduce it’s damage drastically. Plus overall a proc or 2 ofTorment will do less damage than a proc of burning. Even if someone stopped moving, it still fits the Necro agenda of keeping enemies close.

Personally if they remove Dhuumfire and Necros drop from the top of SoloQ, I don’t think anyone is going to complain other than players who are mostly flavor of the month types. Necros shouldn’t be able to spam to win, no one should.

Lordrosicky.5813:

However, dont forget how this necro buff came about. necro was not great pre patch. But it wasnt because necro sucked. It was because other classes had OP stuff. Mainly a necro couldnt load enough conditions onto a target to cope with the OP condition removal that is given to ele, guardian and ranger. You couldnt touch a ranger 1 on 1 because you only really had 3 conditions and all those disappeared to the PASSIVE and no skill emphatic bond before they can do anything. Otherwise you also had healing spring. Ele condi removal is also over the top with alot of synergy. And guardian shouts with the runes was absolutly ridicoulous condition removal. Espicially with removal on virute and renwed virtues elite. Again a necro couldnt touch a bunker guardian pre patch.

So what did they do? Instead of nerfing all this condition removal they mega buffed necro so you now win by just SPAMMING all your conditions to overwhelm these insane condition removals. That is terrible design and not fun.

So then what? Well they decided to buff loads of other condition removal like mesmer null field or berserker stance (to differing degrees) to match the necro. Now if they nerf conditions then conditions will be even worse than before the necro patch. And still based on spam. because condi removal is so strong. Especially condi removal which can be traited for and so does not effect the skills a player uses really.

Seriously, I suggest giving up on this game. I promise you they will continue their “create builds” approach. Which basically means making more and more stuff ridiculously OP and without counter play (i.e. berserker stance change and the necro changes). Instead they should be nerfing everything more or less. And there is a large difference. The change in balance between classes mite be the same by buffing or nerfing everything. But the game dynamics by making everything amazing and OP can only be lame.

So yeh. They now cannot remove dhumfire. It is all necros have. Necros have to spam to win. But if they remove it then they wont be able to spam as well and so they wont win. Literally there are about 30 skills and traits I can think of which need to be nerfed to reduce the spam and make the game fun. And also AI needs to be a pve mechanic or something which has a low power cap due to be easy to play (spirt spam rangers)

What necro needed was a way to COVER damaging conditions, not another source of OP condi like burning on long duration.

On engis it’s more balanced due to melee nature of the engi in order to be fully effective ( unless you play NA way, but that build has other weak spots so it’s also balanced, still i believe engi is one of the strongest classes).

Dhumfire could have been " dhuum freeze", you would have seen the same “necro boom” simply because a necro now had more ways to cover their damaging conditions with another condi.

I believe that more access to torment spread on other weaponsets and making dhuumfire stuff like " dhuumchill" or “dhuumweakness” and making it some sort of “buff” ( so you know that our next 3 attacks will cause “chill” for 1 sec and showing how many charges are left, just like sharpened edges or thief venoms) would solve the issue regarding necro spamming.

Same with sun spirit. Same with engi burning.

2-3 attacks that will apply burning/chill/whatever for 1 sec each and giving you a “buff” in order to show your opponent that his following attacks will cause this and that.

You have now counterplay available. You can dodge the bad stuff, those effects are overall reduced ( since 40% of a 4 sec burning gives you another 2 ticks of burning, while 40% if 1 sec burning x4 would give you no additional ticks unless you stack condi duration like mad and go beyond 70% condi duration).

I agree with you, berserker stance has no counter, it should be like endure pain on a 6 secs duration ( wars are built that way after all, with hard counters like zerk stance and endure pain, it’s their design).

Necro burn is NOT all they have: now they have torment ( which should be more present in the proff, instead of dumb burning), improved survivability and improved fear; burning is NOT necessary as long as you can cover your bleeds and keep your target feared and CC’ed.

A necro needed a decoy condition, and chill could fill the theme perfectly.
Add this to torment and enhanced fear/survivability and i really don’t see the point in giving burning to necros.

Again, fixing spamming by giving counterplay and reducing effect of passive dmg boosts is all we need to fix the meta, there’s no need to exaggerate like this.

Burst meta was even more broken, it was ridicolous that a D/D thief could instagib you in 1 sec neat if you didn’t have your stunbreak available ( and i really don’t want to think at what they did to fix this, it makes my heart cry every time i remember it).

Lordrosicky.5813:

Roe.3679:

As a Necro main (well before the 6/25 patch), I would be fine with Dhuumfire being completely removed. It’s not really a fun trait, it’s just spam and profit.

I think if they did replace it with Torment, but seriously reduced the damage Torment causes to stationary targets, it could be a good change. That way there is counterplay to a Necro’s conditions in that if you stop moving you are taking far less damage.

I dont play this game atm and wont till they fix it and haven’t really been reading the forums either.

However, dont forget how this necro buff came about. necro was not great pre patch. But it wasnt because necro sucked. It was because other classes had OP stuff. Mainly a necro couldnt load enough conditions onto a target to cope with the OP condition removal that is given to ele, guardian and ranger. You couldnt touch a ranger 1 on 1 because you only really had 3 conditions and all those disappeared to the PASSIVE and no skill emphatic bond before they can do anything. Otherwise you also had healing spring. Ele condi removal is also over the top with alot of synergy. And guardian shouts with the runes was absolutly ridicoulous condition removal. Espicially with removal on virute and renwed virtues elite. Again a necro couldnt touch a bunker guardian pre patch.

So what did they do? Instead of nerfing all this condition removal they mega buffed necro so you now win by just SPAMMING all your conditions to overwhelm these insane condition removals. That is terrible design and not fun.

So then what? Well they decided to buff loads of other condition removal like mesmer null field or berserker stance (to differing degrees) to match the necro. Now if they nerf conditions then conditions will be even worse than before the necro patch. And still based on spam. because condi removal is so strong. Especially condi removal which can be traited for and so does not effect the skills a player uses really.

Seriously, I suggest giving up on this game. I promise you they will continue their “create builds” approach. Which basically means making more and more stuff ridiculously OP and without counter play (i.e. berserker stance change and the necro changes). Instead they should be nerfing everything more or less. And there is a large difference. The change in balance between classes mite be the same by buffing or nerfing everything. But the game dynamics by making everything amazing and OP can only be lame.

So yeh. They now cannot remove dhumfire. It is all necros have. Necros have to spam to win. But if they remove it then they wont be able to spam as well and so they wont win. Literally there are about 30 skills and traits I can think of which need to be nerfed to reduce the spam and make the game fun. And also AI needs to be a pve mechanic or something which has a low power cap due to be easy to play (spirt spam rangers)

Can I have your stuff?

Exactly! Necros should have access to a plastic spoon ONLY and be made to stand immobilised during matches so burst warriors and thieves can kitten on them easier.

And also, take away fear from necros. Fear is annoying because I have to use stability.

Agree with the OP too..
Next to the plastic spoon necro’s should have all gambits on us from queen’s gauntlet as well have no acces to utilities or DS..

Personally i feel every other profession should have a new skill:

Necromantic removal (elite):
Remove the necromancer from the game; When activating this elite the client of the targeted necro will crash and thew player won’t be able to join the game for 72 hours.

The biggest problem I have is that all players are suggesting is a nerf to every and all conditions, dooming every condition build in every form of the game. They keep forgetting that when other classes were nerfed, what was nerfed was the damage on a few attacks. Anet didn’t go and say “alright, now all direct damage uyses only 66% of your power now” like all the QQ is suggesting.

They also exaggerate how much of an investment is needed to do direct damage. I run carrion on my necro, and in a full carrion set my Life Blast does an equal amount of damage on non-crits to my scepter in WvW. And in WvW, I have 1850 condition damage. While running in berserker gear, hitting for 4K to 6K on other players with life blast, my condition build doesn’t have nearly that much offensive potential.

Direct damage has the ability to do more damage, and does it immediately. As a form of balance, direct damage has more passive mitigating factors.

I find a thief still really good, able to stealth a lot remove condi and still pressure.. just got to know when to go in and when not to is all.

Everyone hating on necros but nobody remembers we didn’t ask for more offense . The necro community wanted more sustain and/or a viable disengage or invulnerably, which I might add every other class in the game has. We were fine with our damage, at least conditions wise, but just wanted a way to not get focused down every time before our conditions did any damage.

kailin.4905:

Everyone hating on necros but nobody remembers we didn’t ask for more offense . The necro community wanted more sustain and/or a viable disengage or invulnerably, which I might add every other class in the game has. We were fine with our damage, at least conditions wise, but just wanted a way to not get focused down every time before our conditions did any damage.

necro never needed a way to disangage or invulnerability, it only needed more sustain ( and now you have it, via improved death shroud).

A necro needed a way to cover damaging conditions, it was NOT FINE dps wise and couldn’t stand with ele -guard-ranger condi removal.

without burning, a necro could still need a bit more of dps, but burning on top of 10 stacks of bleeds+ poison+ torment is too much.

and having it on passive procs ( with no possible recognization, automated) gives you no possible counterplay: just the same with engi and sun spirit procs.

The issue is DS also took a huge Nerf in that damage now bleeds over into your HP so its not as effective as any other class with and invulnerability. As far as damage I think torment was enough of a condition cover. What needs to be done its blood traits need to scale at a decent level as we currently have a traitline that nobody uses and ds2 needs to go back to a short range teleport. Remove dhuumfire and look at the power of burning in general.

Mrbig.8019:

kailin.4905:

Everyone hating on necros but nobody remembers we didn’t ask for more offense . The necro community wanted more sustain and/or a viable disengage or invulnerably, which I might add every other class in the game has. We were fine with our damage, at least conditions wise, but just wanted a way to not get focused down every time before our conditions did any damage.

necro never needed a way to disangage or invulnerability, it only needed more sustain ( and now you have it, via improved death shroud).

A necro needed a way to cover damaging conditions, it was NOT FINE dps wise and couldn’t stand with ele -guard-ranger condi removal.

without burning, a necro could still need a bit more of dps, but burning on top of 10 stacks of bleeds+ poison+ torment is too much.

and having it on passive procs ( with no possible recognization, automated) gives you no possible counterplay: just the same with engi and sun spirit procs.

Death Shroud isnt enought right now. First, it doesnt absorve damage as it used to, and you cant heal while in death shroud, so when you get focused on combat you lose all your death shroud in a few seconds, and then you die. This does not happen with blocks (which blocks all damage from all players), or evades (which evades all damage from all players). They also changed how you gain life force, which used to give a % for every hit, and now it has an internal cooldown, so you cant receive a large amount of life force when getting focused anymore… So yeah, the only way necros have right now to not die is to deal a lot of condition damage to try killing before dying.

EDIT.: When i say it doesnt absorve damage as it used to, im refering to damage not going to health pool when death shroud is delepleted.

The worst thing is necros right now are almost forced to trait for burst condi’s because not much else is as viable. We don’t have the DD burst to run straight power. Don’t get me wrong, power is ok and we have some skills that do decent DD but nothing in the realm of 17k backstabs, 20K 100 blades, ofr mesmer shatters. Couple that with the nerfs to DS and LF generation that countered most of the survability buff to DS and LF generation in the previous patch and if you try to go DDvsDD your usually going to lose. Non burst condi was always what I personally wanted in a necro but thats not really all that good either because like I originally said we don’t have the sustain/escape to get them ticking and live long enough for them to work. For those that don’t know condi builds don’t generate LF that fast to use DS a lot. So the only thing left is burst conditions… Load up the target fast and hope they die before you get cc’d and focused down. I don’t like it either but if that gets lowered we need to get buffs in sustain to make conditions able to be used.

kailin.4905:

The worst thing is necros right now are almost forced to trait for burst condi’s because not much else is as viable. We don’t have the DD burst to run straight power. Don’t get me wrong, power is ok and we have some skills that do decent DD but nothing in the realm of 17k backstabs, 20K 100 blades, ofr mesmer shatters. Couple that with the nerfs to DS and LF generation that countered most of the survability buff to DS and LF generation in the previous patch and if you try to go DDvsDD your usually going to lose. Non burst condi was always what I personally wanted in a necro but thats not really all that good either because like I originally said we don’t have the sustain/escape to get them ticking and live long enough for them to work. For those that don’t know condi builds don’t generate LF that fast to use DS a lot. So the only thing left is burst conditions… Load up the target fast and hope they die before you get cc’d and focused down. I don’t like it either but if that gets lowered we need to get buffs in sustain to make conditions able to be used.

i’m sorry but it’s absolutely not true, and this misconception about necro survivability should really be understood fast by the necro community instead of going into any thread talking about the meta in order to defend the class.

I play a necro from beta ( not as a main, but whatever) and its survivability, now that burst has been SIGNIFICANTLY toned down, has skyrocketed.

The nerf to DS damage going into health pool is irrilevant due to DS now working properly against damage, if you build with at least 20 in soul reaping and bring AT LEAST 1 defensive spctral ( plus the automatic spectral armor every 60 secs) you’re drowning into life force.

30-20-0-0-20 meta build has ALL in a single build: grat LF generation, great tankability ( don’t forget Plague) and ridicolous amount of condition further increased by spirit rangers.

Activating spectral armor ang oing into DS will actually make you absorb a full Ele burst combo AND GAIN LIFE FORCE MEANWHILE instead of dropping like a fly ( this if nightmare rune’s proc doesn’t screw the whole combo).

WIth weakness on DS + OH dagger you can withstand against 2 opponents for quite a while if you have all your CDs.

Necro survivability is FINE currently, if nothing we should test how it goes if they totally remove dhuumfire or replace it with a non-damaging condi.

The problem with what you are showing is you are talking about a condi build with 30 in spite which no condimancer ran until a month ago. Which is mainly what is creating the burst condition meta. With the current condition burst sustain is not as big an issue because targets die fast. Try a spec that’s not burst conditions (like necro pre patch) and thus was not the case. Also spectral armor only protects 33% damage and is now capped on LF generation by internal cool down. Its a decent skill now that I use myself, but if damage buffs are reverted it will not be enough.

kailin.4905:

The problem with what you are showing is you are talking about a condi build with 30 in spite which no condimancer ran until a month ago. Which is mainly what is creating the burst condition meta. With the current condition burst sustain is not as big an issue because targets die fast. Try a spec that’s not burst conditions (like necro pre patch) and thus was not the case. Also spectral armor only protects 33% damage and is now capped on LF generation by internal cool down. Its a decent skill now that I use myself, but if damage buffs are reverted it will not be enough.

you don’t understand

Using spectral armor AND going immediately after into DS ( as soon as you receive a strong burst ) will TOTALLY neutralize it, hell you’ll even gain LF: the mitigation doesn’t come from protection, but from LF generation with Spectral armor on.

Go to helseth/symbolic twitch stream, they’ll show you how broken it is ( i’ve tried it with spectral walk too, you can do it at 50% lifeforce and still being in DS after the burst).

This on top of protection given.

Spam wars 2

Mrbig.8019:

kailin.4905:

The problem with what you are showing is you are talking about a condi build with 30 in spite which no condimancer ran until a month ago. Which is mainly what is creating the burst condition meta. With the current condition burst sustain is not as big an issue because targets die fast. Try a spec that’s not burst conditions (like necro pre patch) and thus was not the case. Also spectral armor only protects 33% damage and is now capped on LF generation by internal cool down. Its a decent skill now that I use myself, but if damage buffs are reverted it will not be enough.

you don’t understand

Using spectral armor AND going immediately after into DS ( as soon as you receive a strong burst ) will TOTALLY neutralize it, hell you’ll even gain LF: the mitigation doesn’t come from protection, but from LF generation with Spectral armor on.

Go to helseth/symbolic twitch stream, they’ll show you how broken it is ( i’ve tried it with spectral walk too, you can do it at 50% lifeforce and still being in DS after the burst).

This on top of protection given.

If that is indeed the case (not doubting you i just dont watch the videos) I see your point. I assume though it is an unintended glitch with the last couple patches though as ds even says “removes all spectral effects”. Still I feel I would like to see us do less damage and have more sustain through an intended means such a siphons. Not some god mode error by a net.

Proc on swap, gg

MoGoW.1875:

Proc on swap, gg

C’mon, it’s not like 3 stacks of bleeds or 5 secs of poison are that gamebreaking.

If you were able to know WHEN burn is going to be applied by the spirit ranger/necro/engi, would you still lose on your ele against them ?

Maybe, but at least there’s now room for counterplay.