Guild Wars 2

In between the animalistic screeching of people ordering their teams around when they’re losing, the trolling and the lack of any kind of decent team matching, the thing which stands out most to me is just how lacking in variety the meta is.

Every class has one build they can play. Two if you’re a Dragonhunter. It’s moving onto the second season and very little has been done to address the lack of build diversity in the format. Even for a system as limited as GW2’s, surely there could be more than one competitive option available to players.

I’m getting really sick of seeing the same builds over and over again while nothing is done to actually change anything. Surely we can have some sort of overhaul update and have some sort of variety added?

Why would you play a build that makes you win less than when you play a meta build? Pretty much my mindset when playing FA ele.

FrownyClown.8402:

Why would you play a build that makes you win less than when you play a meta build? Pretty much my mindset when playing FA ele.

That’s the point. The fact that the game is at this point is awful. That’s why there needs to be more done to change that.

Devs made 2 changes to Engineer with the patch before Season 5. This was for rifle to make it more in line with Hammer. It didn’t do kitten all. They don’t want to upset their precious Abjured, so don’t expect anything anytime soon.

Variety sucks. I love doing the same stuff over and over again. I usually expect different results but it never happens.

ibchillin.7805:

Devs made 2 changes to Engineer with the patch before Season 5. This was for rifle to make it more in line with Hammer. It didn’t do kitten all. They don’t want to upset their precious Abjured, so don’t expect anything anytime soon.

They kicked the engy off the team last time i heard.

Good try though

Delete elite specs and watch diversity open up again.

…. the irony.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Delete elite specs and watch diversity open up again.

…. the irony.

I’d be okay with this.

I’m a pve player and recently converted into pvp, if pve doesn’t teach you how build variety/diversity is while zoning into higher level area it is not my problem anymore and you have no right to flex those AP of yours. Advance players and their first world problem is killing me.

Chapell.1346:

I’m a pve player and recently converted into pvp, if pve doesn’t teach you how build variety/diversity is while zoning into higher level area

So basically, you bumbled into this pvp season, are playing with low level players, haven’t had a chance to experience just how stale the meta is and you think that because there’s no build variety in PvE that there’s no point in addressing the issue?

Chapell.1346:

Advance players and their first world problem is killing me.

Isn’t your beef with this a first world issue itself?

Ross Biddle.2367:

Delete elite specs and watch diversity open up again.

…. the irony.

Dakurus Sunfire.9157:

Chapell.1346:

if pve/open world doesn’t teach you how build variety/diversity is while zoning into higher level area it is not my problem anymore

So basically, you bumbled into this pvp season, are playing with low level players, haven’t had a chance to experience just how stale the meta

I wanted too but they put a dimensional barrier that a mere human like me can’t pass.

Dakurus Sunfire.9157:

and you think that because there’s no build variety in PvE that there’s no point in addressing the issue?

Y-you misunderstood

if pve/open world doesn’t teach you how build variety/diversity is while zoning into higher level area it is not my problem anymore

Dakurus Sunfire.9157:

Advance players and their first world problem is killing me.

Better title if you ask me.

Edit: * added something for clarification cos 2017

Barring the ability to add or subtract trait lines /skills the next the next plausible solution is to change the pvp maps themselves so skill rather than build matters more.

What you’re asking for is basically impossible. There will always be an objectively best option, and because traits and skills can’t be changed after a game starts, you tend to build around what’s to be expected.

Besides, this is the best meta we’ve had in years. What is your barometer or baseline of acceptance? Every class is viable in PvP, and classes run quite different builds between PvP, WvW, and even between raids, fractals, and dungeons. The game has never had more build and class diversity.

Barring population problems, this is the best Guild Wars 2 has been since 2013.

Just to add something else, GW2 in its current state is far more balanced than any other PvP MMO I’ve played recently. WoW is littered with completely garbage specializations, BDO has no semblance of balance, and ArcheAge is nothing but mageball trash can gameplay.

Phineas Poe.3018:

What you’re asking for is basically impossible. There will always be an objectively best option, and because traits and skills can’t be changed after a game starts, you tend to build around what’s to be expected.

This is the best meta we’ve had in years

Actually before june patch (trait revamp) and introduction of celestial amy there was more variety….

What do you mean no variety? I see so much variety right now. Sometimes my matches have only 5-6 DHs total that’s 4-5 non DHs!!!! So much variety!!!

BlaqueFyre.5678:

What do you mean no variety? I see so much variety right now. Sometimes my matches have only 5-6 DHs total that’s 4-5 non DHs!!!! So much variety!!!

Only? Welcome to plat where DH count intensifies.

Shadowstep.6049:

Actually before june patch (trait revamp) and introduction of celestial amy there was more variety….

Please refer to my edit as I’m typing on my phone and submitted the post early, but I was referring to game wide build diversity. Some classes don’t even run the same build between wing one and wing two of raids.

But just to hone in on Conquest for a minute, while every class tends to stick to one build (minus thief, necro, warrior, and guardian) the greater point is that every class is actually competitive in some way. There were multiple spans of time where classes like ele and necro were just straight up bad. This isn’t one of them.

Engi, rev, and ranger aren’t exactly shining at the moment but you can still win most of your games and place well in the top 250 on them still. Not even that great at PvP in this game and I’ve spent pretty much the entire season in platinum playing engineer exclusively.

Actually I find build diversity to be at least decent this season. Sure there may not be a huge variety within the classes but do you know why that’s the case? Because every single profession is viable these days so the variety in roles you could fulfil is just covered by other classes doing it.

Also diversity isn’t that bad.
-Necro, while being pretty hard has at least 3 viable builds
-Warriors can go condi or power
-Dragonhunter has at least 3-4 playable builds
-druids can choose to go full tank or LB

Sure some classes like mesmer, ele or perhaps even thief could use a little more variety but it’s really not that bad. You just have to play different classes if you want variety.

Shadowstep.6049:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

What do you mean no variety? I see so much variety right now. Sometimes my matches have only 5-6 DHs total that’s 4-5 non DHs!!!! So much variety!!!

Only? Welcome to plat where DH count intensifies.

lol, 5 DH in the dragon’s despair team!

Ross Biddle.2367:

Delete elite specs and watch diversity open up again.

…. the irony.

Yeah so we can go back to pre-Hot where you either played an ele or you where subpar.

The current meta has no more and no less meta builds than any other meta.

Crinn.7864:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Delete elite specs and watch diversity open up again.

…. the irony.

Yeah so we can go back to pre-Hot where you either played an ele or you where subpar.

The current meta has no more and no less meta builds than any other meta.

He didn’t say add back in celestials….

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Crinn.7864:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Delete elite specs and watch diversity open up again.

…. the irony.

Yeah so we can go back to pre-Hot where you either played an ele or you where subpar.

The current meta has no more and no less meta builds than any other meta.

He didn’t say add back in celestials….

Because celestial wasn’t the only problem core has nor was it even the biggest.

I’m sorry but people need to take off the rose colored glasses. Core classes are flawed. Some of the core classes lack the most basic of tools while others are drowning in tools. Core meta would be no diverse than the current meta.

Those that say we should delete specializations, I really have to wonder if they played pvp prior to HoT. There was a time where only 2-3 of the classes were even considered viable to play at all. Now at least every class has build that can be fun and competitive within the realm of the game. I never count pro builds because that is a different branch of play then if you’re queuing ranked or unranked.

Crinn.7864:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Crinn.7864:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Delete elite specs and watch diversity open up again.

…. the irony.

Yeah so we can go back to pre-Hot where you either played an ele or you where subpar.

The current meta has no more and no less meta builds than any other meta.

He didn’t say add back in celestials….

Because celestial wasn’t the only problem core has nor was it even the biggest.

I’m sorry but people need to take off the rose colored glasses. Core classes are flawed. Some of the core classes lack the most basic of tools while others are drowning in tools. Core meta would be no diverse than the current meta.

Under core you could build meta counters that weren’t themselves instantly and utterly deleted by the rest of the meta. Elite meta does though. This is objectively why deleting elite specs will open up diversity.

~Who throws a shoe, honestly? XD

Mysticjedi.6053:

Those that say we should delete specializations, I really have to wonder if they played pvp prior to HoT. There was a time where only 2-3 of the classes were even considered viable to play at all. Now at least every class has build that can be fun and competitive within the realm of the game. I never count pro builds because that is a different branch of play then if you’re queuing ranked or unranked.

MOST of PvP history pre-HoT had no variety, not just of builds but of classes played due to imbalance, OP’ness (celeEle a fav example), etcetc. However there was the small window post the trait revamp and pre-HoT that had the most amount of diversity PvP has ever seen, both of class distribution and build variety. Some builds were the strongest (meta) choices, but a sufficiently skilled player could take a number of variations (depending on the class) and compete. This included a variety of roll changes for some classes.

Roll diversity under HoT is at an all time low. Build diversity is limited to 1 per class (this is low. In fact it doesn’t get lower than the number 1 as zero is the equivalent of deletion XD ). All HoT has is class diversity, and even then people are continually arguing X, Y, Z, class doesn’t cut it under various circumstances (Thief for example, or many classes without the propper team comp running the required meta builds).

So please, enlighten us to the history you’re talking about. Clearly only you played this game pre-Hot XD

Ross Biddle.2367:

Build diversity is limited to 1 per class (this is low. In fact it doesn’t get lower than the number 1

This is false. Every class has multiple viable builds. Just because you have created some arbitrary reason to exclude other builds just to suit your opinion, doesn’t mean it’s as bad as you think.

Crinn.7864:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Build diversity is limited to 1 per class (this is low. In fact it doesn’t get lower than the number 1

This is false. Every class has multiple viable builds. Just because you have created some arbitrary reason to exclude other builds just to suit your opinion, doesn’t mean it’s as bad as you think.

So true, engi has his diveristy with the hammer gyro, or the hammer elixir, or the hammer kit or….. OR kittenING HAMMER

Yeah way back when engi can used AED plus Adaptive Armor while using hammer; those were the glorious days.

If you play like a pro and push any build to the limit, it can hit the skill ceiling, even being on par with other builds including the meta. Power shatter mesmer is an example. There are many ways to play the build, but because the condition build’s much easier to play, people downvote the power variant.

Or power necro, for example. Nobody plays that because condi necro is, well, so much easier, although power necro has the potential to be really powerful as well.

One build will never suffice in a game. Memorizing multiple builds in PvP that counter the opponent team’s classes is the best option, as well as taking note of the classes on your teams.

Hell, people hated the Revenant power build, only because they just didn’t hit a high enough ground on the skill bar.

Crinn.7864:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Build diversity is limited to 1 per class (this is low. In fact it doesn’t get lower than the number 1

This is false. Every class has multiple viable builds. Just because you have created some arbitrary reason to exclude other builds just to suit your opinion, doesn’t mean it’s as bad as you think.

I get what you’re trying to say. I mean, I run either a power shatter chrono, power lockdown chrono, interrupt condi chrono, power rifle berserker, or a p/p thief when I’m playing. And yet, I understand and am honest enough to admit that these builds and this approach is limited and severely lacking in the world of META.

People can and do run whatever they want. But the devs have not balanced the game to make a diverse number of equally competitive builds across the classes and the subsequent roles of conquest. This is the whole point, and exists objectively beyond the reaches of my personal opinions, and regardless of if you want to ignore the nuance of the argument or not XD

Dakurus Sunfire.9157:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Delete elite specs and watch diversity open up again.

…. the irony.

I’d be okay with this.

Me too, seeing as I don’t have HoT. But maybe make a new queue for non-elite specs would be fine too. It really noticealbe how superior they are. But until that I’m fine with this too, it’s not like I’m playing for money so I don’t mind losing, it’s just a game and I play it for fun.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Barring population problems, this is the best Guild Wars 2 has been since 2013.

LOL, since the HoT powercreep the combat in this game has gone to garbage (at least for PvP & WvW), it has been the most tedious, low skilled kitten it has ever been, WvW has died a death since HoT because the toilet bowl cancer meta has literally bored people out of the game, PvP has not been much better, great every PvP class has a viable spec, shame the combat is as boring as kitten to play now and since the HoT powercreep there has been a far greater difference between how strong the “meta” spec is and everything else so has reduced build variety.

So they have to provide more and more bribes to get PvE players (the only bit of the game where combat actually got better after HoT) to prop up numbers in PvP, culminating with the latest display of desperation by offering the bribe of ascended armour in double quick time in a game mode that does not even use it, because most of the PvP population have left the game.

zinkz.7045:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Barring population problems, this is the best Guild Wars 2 has been since 2013.

LOL, since the HoT powercreep the combat in this game has gone to garbage (at least for PvP & WvW), it has been the most tedious, low skilled kitten it has ever been, WvW has died a death since HoT because the toilet bowl cancer meta has literally bored people out of the game, PvP has not been much better, great every PvP class has a viable spec, shame the combat is as boring as kitten to play now and since the HoT powercreep there has been a far greater difference between how strong the “meta” spec is and everything else so has reduced build variety.

So they have to provide more and more bribes to get PvE players (the only bit of the game where combat actually got better after HoT) to prop up numbers in PvP, culminating with the latest display of desperation by offering the bribe of ascended armour in double quick time in a game mode that does not even use it, because most of the PvP population have left the game.

Let’s please dispel the myth that there was some widespread PvP population that has since left the game. PvP has always had population problems, and “most of the PvP population” has always been PvX players like myself that historically put more emphasis on other aspects of the game. The number of “PvP only” players has always been brutally low compared to “WvW only” or “PvE only” players, and the entire active competitive community wouldn’t have even capped out a single borderland even before the HoT power creep crept in.

And yeah. That power creep from HoT is still much better than the stupid BS that the Celestial amulet introduced to PvP. Alongside the disappearance of WvW tournaments and the ending of biweekly content updates, mid-2013 was the beginning of a downward spiral. Guild Wars 2 since was merely circling the drain, though I think recent content additions have given me reason to be optimistic.