Guild Wars 2

JPeters dropped by Gasmask’s stream a bit ago and explained the details of the system they’re implementing. He said he’ll be posting about it more in-depth shortly, but I’d like to toss it out as fast as possible. These forums are on fiyah.

Anyways, in the proposed system (the one they’re working on) the premade and solo players ARE combined, however, the way the matchmaking works means that you will be extremely unlikely to see them matched up against each other.

The queues will be based off of team composition. If you queue 5 players, it searches for a team consisting of 5 players with a close MMR.

The main takeaway is that your group composition and MMR dictate your opponents.

If you queue 4 players together with 1 random, it will look for a team that queued with 4 players together and 1 random, with similar MMR.

If you queue 3 players together with 2 random, it will look for a team that queued with 3 players together and 2 random, with similar MMR.

If you queue 2 players together with 3 random, it will look for a team that queued with 2 players together and 3 random, with similar MMR.

Most importantly, if you queue solo, it will match you with 4 other solo players, and then search for another team made up of 4 other solo players.

They said in the SOTG that they’re going to use this system initially and will revisit it if need be in the future. The SOTG should make more sense with this information made a bit more clear. Hope this makes you guys feel a little better.

Look out for a red post on it!

Queue for what? Free tourneys or paids?

Note: I’m not arguing for or against this system. Just explaining it as far as I understand it.

This system still combines solo and premade ranking. Keep that in mind.

nerva.7940:

Queue for what? Free tourneys or paids?

This is for paids. I don’t remember if they said they’ll be using the same system for frees. I think it’s something they said they’d look into. My brain is fried right now.

Evo.9180:

Sure the system will try to match you against a similar team, but it won’t always be able to and it will have to compromise. Which means that you will be put in an unfair match up against a more organized team. Losing that will be frustrating and will hit your rating, too. There just needs to be a separate solo queue. There is no way around it.

I’m assuming that if your group can’t find a perfect 5 pug match, it would match you with the next 2/3 bracket, with 2 players in a duo, and 3 randoms. Just a guess though.

Again, not arguing for or against the system, just explaining how it works (to my understanding.)

The biggest problem is the combined ranking hits. =/

Evo.9180:

Sure the system will try to match you against a similar team, but it won’t always be able to and it will have to compromise. Which means that you will eventually be put in an unfair match up against a more organized team. Losing that will be frustrating and will hit your rating, too. There just needs to be a separate solo queue. There is no way around it.

Agreed, especially since the ratings are mixed in. Also, since the pvp community isn’t THAT large you will have more of a chance to have the premade vs solo queue players fiasco happen.

Why not just take the easier route and separate the two completely? Or have Solo + Duo together and Pre-made completely separate?

It’ll be absolutely impossible to truly be competitive as a solo player in such a ladder. Eventually you’ll hit to the point of ranks where only people who play in a coordinated team can win.

There really is nothing that favors this system over a system like lets say in league of legends (where you can max que with one friend)

The only argument is ‘’avoiding splitting the full premade with soloers’’ but that is a split which SHOULD happen. Premades SHOULDNT be playing with soloers

Thanks a lot for clearing things up though Grouch!

I personally think it’s a bad idea to combine solo and teamqueue.

The best example would be League of Legends pre season 1, when there were only normal games. As a highrated player you would get matched against full teams all the time or at least 3-4 players in a team and that’s just frustrating.

League of Legends wasn’t popular at all by that time, but as soon as they implemented Ranked Queue the game skyrocketed and became very popular (even before they invested money and hosted big tournaments etc.)

I feel like Soloqueue is something that is essential for a game like this and I’m really looking forward to it. Hopefully it won’t be like the old League queue.

Evo.9180:

There just needs to be a separate solo queue. There is no way around it.

It will split the population, not helpful at the moment.

Nord.5360:

The biggest problem is the combined ranking hits. =/

They could just as easily scale the rating gains/loses based on how you queue (and I’m making these numbers up here just to make the point):

• Randoms vs. Randoms – 1:1 rating scaling.
• Randoms vs. 3R + 2T – .8:1 rating scaling.
• Randoms vs. 2R + 3T – .6:1 rating scaling.
• Randoms vs. 1R + 4T – .4:1 rating scaling.
• Randoms vs. Team – .2:1 rating scaling.
• 3R + 2T vs 3R + 2T – 1:1 rating scaling.
• 2R + 3T vs 2R + 3T – 1:1 rating scaling.
• 4T+1R vs. 4T+1R – 1:1 rating scaling.
• Team vs. Team – 1:1 rating scaling.

Or that may just be a terrible idea.

Helseth is right.

Someone with a high rating who queues solo will be more likely to be placed against a pre-made team.

Solo players also do not want to be stuck with 2-4 player premade teams and then go up against a full 5 premade.

Perhaps JP can clear this up, but the it seems like the competitiveness of this system falls apart pretty quickly the moment 3+ man teams are matched up with or against solos.

I want to get good rewards by queuing solo. Free tourney rewards are complete crap and I hope this gets addressed

In theory it works, only if the people who joined as 5 will play against people who joined as 5…… but this is splitting the player base even more and realy u can’t afford that in the current state. just keep things simple and then expand into testing out new stuff

Imho, separating the queues completely is a bad idea
a system that broadens your search is more beneficial to queue times, no one (soloers or full team alike) wants to be in a 10-15 minutes queue because there are no other premades or group of 5 soloers at that time

that being said, I’ll always be opposed to soloers queing for paids.

I agree with having to sets of tournies running Rated and unrated,
Rated will offer ranking, changes in ratings and better awards.,…..basicly your paids atm +ratings
Unrated cna be solo/dueQ should be abit of fun offer less rewards…..based on matchmaking but doesn’t alter your rating…. basicly ur frees

and remove hotjoin replacing it with solo q that u can only enter as two max and be partnered with randoms and against Randoms (slightly biased in favour of ratings but not to much)

The thing is that a soloqueue will attract so much more people and the majority wants a full soloqueue.

Competetive players will find a way around that and will still be able to play the game as a full team. I’m not afraid that the teamqueue will die, when there will be a soloqueue.
In case the teamqueue wouldn’t be as popular anymore you can still provide a better reward or something like that to make it more interesting for players.

Truth be told: If I wouldn’t have a team myself I know that I probably wouldn’t play this game at all right now, sadly. Even though I really enjoy it.

well its only bad in its current climate….. wWhen (i say when not if) this game get popular and lalot of people start doing tournies, then u can afford to split the pop up because matches will still be happening on a regular pace

I’d love a solo/duo que and would play it like crazy. I personally hate trying to find 3-4 other players with a nice attitude, play times matching, skill levels somewhat similar..
I’ just want to be able to enjoy the pvp more without having to play zergjoin, puging and getting matched up with people who have played alot together(satisfying when you win but still..)

And it’s not like a solo/duo queue removes the option to add people to friendslist and maybe make a “premade” with those friends, just make team v team reward more in some way to make people want to play it, 2x the glory rank? :P

Nazral.3152:

I agree with having to sets of tournies running Rated and unrated,
Rated will offer ranking, changes in ratings and better awards.,…..basicly your paids atm +ratings
Unrated cna be solo/dueQ should be abit of fun offer less rewards…..based on matchmaking but doesn’t alter your rating…. basicly ur frees

and remove hotjoin replacing it with solo q that u can only enter as two max and be partnered with randoms and against Randoms (slightly biased in favour of ratings but not to much)

I disagree, i think solo queuers should have separate ladder/ranking to be able to compete even if they dont want to or cant compete with 5 man team. Rewards should be ladder ranking advancement ( for won matches only) + glory with large glory bonus for winning team to incentivize team play.

Teldo.1473:

Truth be told: If I wouldn’t have a team myself I know that I probably wouldn’t play this game at all right now, sadly. Even though I really enjoy it.

Yes this is exactly the situation so many people are in right now.

The moment matchmaking becomes a dice-roll and a solo player faces a premade team and losses rating, the system falls apart. People will stop queuing and we are right back to where we started which is highly experience 5 man teams stomping everyone and the casual playerbase dies.

If a legitimate solo queue is not added, spvp is done.

Exactly Teldo, this is why people like I have stopped playing. I have an extremely busy professional life with unpredictable times. So it’s really hard to form a fixed team. Whenever I have an hour or two of freetime, there’s nothing I’d rather do than having some good GW2 pvp action. However, free tourneys gets me against premades most of the time, and I’m too competitive to actually enjoy free lobbys. What is there left to do for players like me??

Khyras.8021:

Nazral.3152:

I agree with having to sets of tournies running Rated and unrated,
Rated will offer ranking, changes in ratings and better awards.,…..basicly your paids atm +ratings
Unrated cna be solo/dueQ should be abit of fun offer less rewards…..based on matchmaking but doesn’t alter your rating…. basicly ur frees

and remove hotjoin replacing it with solo q that u can only enter as two max and be partnered with randoms and against Randoms (slightly biased in favour of ratings but not to much)

I disagree, i think solo queuers should have separate ladder/ranking to be able to compete even if they dont want to or cant compete with 5 man team. Rewards should be ladder ranking advancement ( for won matches only) + glory with large glory bonus for winning team to incentivize team play.

Well its like this, if u get a kitten team (not ur fault) or ur experimenting and u lose, well u shouldn’t be penalized. and where is the carefree game mode for people who just want to chill, if everything is rating based then i lose that .maybe have ranked soloq and unranked orsomthing

I think it should be solo/duo Q. But after hearing enough arguments i think it could be a good idea.
but they will have to run it as an expirment for a week, and see what it does to premade vs premade ques.
This would have to also essentially eliminate the paid/free difference, or youd have 3 modes. And thats too much.

Thats the big issue. It would be stupid to ask teams to farm tickets solo just so they can play together.

Nazral.3152:

Khyras.8021:

Nazral.3152:

I agree with having to sets of tournies running Rated and unrated,
Rated will offer ranking, changes in ratings and better awards.,…..basicly your paids atm +ratings
Unrated cna be solo/dueQ should be abit of fun offer less rewards…..based on matchmaking but doesn’t alter your rating…. basicly ur frees

and remove hotjoin replacing it with solo q that u can only enter as two max and be partnered with randoms and against Randoms (slightly biased in favour of ratings but not to much)

I disagree, i think solo queuers should have separate ladder/ranking to be able to compete even if they dont want to or cant compete with 5 man team. Rewards should be ladder ranking advancement ( for won matches only) + glory with large glory bonus for winning team to incentivize team play.

Well its like this, if u get a kitten team (not ur fault) or ur experimenting and u lose, well u shouldn’t be penalized. and where is the carefree game mode for people who just want to chill, if everything is rating based then i lose that .maybe have ranked soloq and unranked orsomthing

Yeah well people who play pvp usually want to compete with other players and have some sense of progress and to prove their worth, not just chill and relax.
They already have rented arenas planned afaik, so you could chill, duel have fun there if you felt like it without pressure of rated matches, then join solo vs solo or team vs team rated matches after that.

I’m gonna be honest, so here goes

Yes, this will split the community we understand that. However this might actually increase the amount of people showing up and allow people to meet similar players. I know most of the people I play with on a regular basis now came about meeting people in pugging. LFG for X is something that happens more and more, so people are “solo queing” are still getting matched against teams.

Solo queue needs to be implemented at the free level. It has to happen for the strength of the game and at this point most of the players see the most positives from this system. If anet sees differently that’s fine, however they need to tell us why they think having a solo queue will hurt th game, as I just don’t see it.

People love this game. Everyone who leaves says they love it. Why they leave is a matter of structure and a matter of rewards. Without either, it doesn’t matter how perfect the combat and rewards is. The game will die.

I just hope anet realizes lthis and at least talks to us about it

daydream.2938:

I think it should be solo/duo Q. But after hearing enough arguments i think it could be a good idea.
but they will have to run it as an expirment for a week, and see what it does to premade vs premade ques.
This would have to also essentially eliminate the paid/free difference, or youd have 3 modes. And thats too much.

Thats the big issue. It would be stupid to ask teams to farm tickets solo just so they can play together.

There would be no solo farming for teams, you could earn daily achievement while playing with your team automatically ( players killed, points taken etc).

6 months too late gg

+1 Teldo
+1 Helseth
I think most of “top” players are agree with teldo and helseth.

While I would prefer completely separate random vs random/team vs team matches, I can understand why they’d hesitate to implement that. Unfortunately, the combination system means that good solo-queuers are doomed to fight bad premades constantly. I don’t mind it too much, but basically it means good puggers will be making the opposing team look silly and incompetent while still losing to them because they’re on voip and rotating faster. So, kinda like free tourneys. That’s just as big a drawback as not being able to “track solo and team rankings.”

All that said, I understand it’s difficult to implement a completely split queue, and anything’s better than nothing. So we’ll just wait and see what happens.

NevirSayDie.6235:

While I would prefer completely separate random vs random/team vs team matches, I can understand why they’d hesitate to implement that. Unfortunately, the combination system means that good solo-queuers are doomed to fight bad premades constantly. I don’t mind it too much, but basically it means good puggers will be making the opposing team look silly and incompetent while still losing to them because they’re on voip and rotating faster. So, kinda like free tourneys. That’s just as big a drawback as not being able to “track solo and team rankings.”

All that said, I understand it’s difficult to implement a completely split queue, and anything’s better than nothing. So we’ll just wait and see what happens.

You have a lot worse system in place right now: SPVP ( Solo vs Solo) paid tourney ( Team vs Team) and combination of the two ( free tourney). With separate solo and team queues you only have 2 segments instead of 3 , plus team queue players can also compete and advance in solo ladder when their team is not up. Itsa win/win with no downside that i can see compared to with what we have now.

Everything that I would want to say has already been said by Helseth and Teldo.

You are going to increase the game’s popularity in the mists by attracting a solo queue. The game will have a much better chance at succeeding than the infrastructure that is present now.

I will add that there needs to be an unranked and ranked solo queue because like Nazral has already said: there are casual people who play alone in this game as well. There are people who do not have the time to dedicate to a fully committed team, and if it weren’t for having teams to play with I wouldn’t be playing this game this long either.

The current system basically forces:
- Players to find a team or get matched vs premades
- Players to find a team and dedicate time to get good or get stomped
- Everyone else who is deemed inferior to be on a team is ignored
- Players then leave because there is no incentive to continue playing because you will a) pug and get matched up vs a premade because of lack of matchmaking or b) pug and win, but it will amount to nothing as there is nothing to show for it besides a chest and some glory which amounts to almost nothing at this point.

Having a solo queue promotes more players to play because they understand they will be guaranteed to be matched vs other solo players. Having a ranked system allows you to see who the best solo queue players are (albeit it’s a little flawed). Having the unranked system allows the game to flow through “normals”. You are now able to cater to the casual scene. Now add in some really nice rewards or things like “pats on the back” such as having your name shown if you’re on a hot win streak throughout the mists or whatnot and we have something here. I have made a long-winded post about this in my other thread already, but yeah.

Solo queue ranked+unranked gogogo!

I think the unranked solo queue replaces the hot joins and the ranked solo queue replaces frees, with MAYBE a team frees as well if it doesn’t split teams too much. Paids should not have a solo queue as that is for teams.

It makes perfect sense. You replace the stupid zergfest with a mode friendly to new players. You have a new free system that brings more casual players and you keep and improve the current paid system.

It just makes sense to do it this way

I’m no pvper and I haven’t read a few of the posts regarding the matter to be honest, but how about a system similar to the one Bloodline Champions used?

For those of you that haven’t heard of it before, the matchmaking would basically provide two options – a solo queue and a team queue. Any player would be able to be part of as many teams as he/she’d like, and have a different rank in the team ladder for each one of them, while still obviously having his own private rank in the solo ladder. I would propose using something like this to replace the current free/paid tournament system.
Each of the two ladders could consist of a number of ‘divisions’, with each ladder resetting every two or so months. At the end of each season, teams and players get rewarded and promoted/demoted according to their rank. High places in the lowest divisions grant no rewards at all (besides promotion, of course), while even low places in the highest divisions grant relatively high rewards (gems? skins? fame through global announcements?). Besides the end-season rewards, each game played still instantly provides minor rewards for the winning team, depending on what division it belonged to. This creates a healthy competitive atmosphere, allowing for both casual and top-tier play in pretty much the same ‘system’. People will get to enjoy the game as they play versus equally skilled opponents, and see their efforts and improvement be reflected as they progress through divisions. As for people claiming they don’t want to risk losing their rank when trying builds or just wanting to chill, that’s where custom servers come in handy (the current Hot-Join system, which could be left unchanged or further improved by letting people host their own games).

EDIT:
Forgot to also add, although such a system would indeed replace the current Free/ Paid structure, it doesn’t rule out the possibility of custom tournaments, hosted by Anet or outside sponsors, with special rewards and sign-up restrictions

Jacobin.8509:

The moment matchmaking becomes a dice-roll and a solo player faces a premade team and losses rating, the system falls apart.

Based on the description they’ve given, matching with teams with different degrees of organization will be a fallback plan for when there are no similarly rated teams with similar organization.

Suppose 5 players solo queue and are grouped up, but there are no similarly matched teams of other people solo queuing.

There are three things you can do:
1. Wait until five others solo queue and match that group.

This is problematic because no one wants to wait 30 minutes for a queue to pop.

2. Match with them five others who solo queued but have more dissimilar rating than the system normally tries to match them up with.

This has the disadvantage of them probably getting a pretty uneven match.

3. Match them with a premade team (or a team composed of 2 duos and a solo or something in between) which are expected to have even chance of winning against them.

This is obviously a terrible plan if we match a solo queue team with n average rating with a premade with n average rating; so don’t do that. It seems obvious to me that if the solo queue players are sufficiently better individually than the premade, that they can win, since sufficient out-execution in fights and intuition about what to do can overcome higher communication bandwidth. Figuring out how much to discount rating of solo queued players would be difficult, and it’s certainly plausible that there’s no sufficiently effective way to predict the outcome of a team of solo queues with rating n and a premade with rating m, but it isn’t obviously hopeless like you seem to be suggesting.

Personally, I would prefer a split solo/duo queue (mostly for separated solo/duo queue rating from 5v5 rating), but there are advantages to the system A.net is currently planning to implement. In particular, without a massive population, it’s hard to split the queues too many ways, which leaves some sizes of group out. For example, in August/September, I probably queued with 3 or 4 people more often than solo, duo, or with a full group. I couldn’t have done that in a LoL-style split queue (though LoL itself has normal games, which would allow that precisely because they allow solos to be matched with premades).

If they don’t separate the queues, they do need to add some features to better support solo play (these would be needed with split queues, but not as urgently). A MOBA-style pre-game character selection phase where you can talk with your team would be helpful. You can already do this to some extent by just switching characters after loading in, but explicit UI support would improve solo-queue team composition considerably, which would reduce the gap a bit. In-game voice chat would also help. I don’t expect that to happen anytime soon, though, since Anet hasn’t exactly shown themselves to be the best at scaling their features to the existing load (e.g. tourney chests early on, occasional problems still with tournaments mostly around the time of patches). These features would reduce two of the main advantages of premades over solos (better comms technology and better team comp due to pre-organized comp). There is still the advantage that some premades get from having played together a lot, so it might be best to place solo queues against slightly lower-rated teams even with these features. That does punish people who pug instead of solo queuing, though, which makes me sad as someone who primarily pugs and would continue to do so even if a fully-featured split solo queue is implemented.

Any reason you can’t have 100% solo, and team.
Say the team is 3, then draw 2 randoms/team of 2?

Not ideal, but might be a middle ground type fix.

I think the key thing to take away from this anet is this:

You have private servers. They are hot joins. They’re the only thing that’s useful about them.

People want a solo queue. You don’t want I split the community. The simple solution is replace the modes you have that don’t work, not add 3 more.

Is this not a good idea guys?

Wonderful post Lowell.
I agree 100% with you.

Also: I’m getting whispered everyday by multiple people, who ask me if I knew a PvP guild/team which is recruiting players.
Unfortunately I can’t give them an answer on that, but that shows how hard it is to get into a game like this, if there is no solo queue.

Wow Lowell for president!… i mean developer!

100% Agree

Pretty much agree with Lowell on all accounts.

I have to say that I really Lowe lowells post. Took the words I wanted to say and said them better!

Keep this thread alive guys, the only way we are going to get a change is if we keep going.

Lowellollipop.5817:

Posi.4251:

+1 Teldo
+1 Helseth
I think most of “top” players are agree with teldo and helseth.

That’s exaaaaactly where you are wrong Posiqtpie! Not only top players would appreciate it: 90%+ (just a rough guess) of the playerbase would.

Why? Because SoloQ’îng in a rated environment is “the best” way to improve your own mechanical skills, solo decisions, etc that any player can find because he will be matched with and against players of the same skill level who also are playing by themselves and share the same goal: improving (well, this one does not stand true for the very top and very bottom of the ladder in which a lot of people will troll around, but still!).

Please allow me to list a few pros:

- All players would get a place where they can improve their mechanical skills by playing against opponent’s of the same skill level;

- Team players would not have to be scared about affecting their team’s average rating by playing SoloQ;

- Team players would have something to do whenever their full team is not online to play, gathering 5 people is a lot and sometimes you just want to play more;

- Solo players would have a solo ladder to show how good they are whenever they want to join a team and/or create one with people of the same skill level;

- New teams could be born from this system, which would make the game more competitive.

Here’s a little something on that one: In any team-based game that wants to be anywhere near competitive you need to give players an EASY way to create Networks.

Networks are the most IMPORTANT thing a player will need in such games, the good old “be noticeable and get noticed” has always and will always be king in team-based games because it’s what starts everything: joining/creating a team.

As of now, there is ABSOLUTELY no easy way for people who want to be noticed to actually do so because they have no Solo rating, nothing. Guys, in competitive games numbers are THE FIRST thing people will know about you! You know how important a first impression is in life right? It’s the exact same thing in gaming, the only difference is that you’re not judged on how you look, the way you speak or the ammount of money you have in the bank, but on your rating. If you have no rating, you are no one. It’s that simple, really.

Now, let’s think of a game in which being no one was a problem…. from what I gathered we could even take Guild Wars 1 as an example (I’ll be using the ladder type of game, which was GvG and pardon me if I make a mistake). It ended as an elitist-lair in which if you weren’t known no team would bother with you and you would never manage to get into the system, never manage to become “somebody” in the eyes of the people who played the game the way you wanted to play it. Why? Because a player had absolutely NO WAY to get noticed by himself.

Unfortunately, that is the exact same path GW2 is taking. It’s pretty simple. I’ll use my example as someone who’s been playing at the “top” since day 1: the only people I know and would play with in a serious environment are all the other players from top teams with whom and against whom I have played a countless ammount of games. Why? Because I know how good each and every one of them is.

Would I play with someone I don’t know, if I have never heard of that person and there is no rating to show me how good that person is? Obviously, because I’m a fluffy guy so I’d enjoy fun games with anyone. However, there is absolutely no way for me to play seriously with that guy!! I wouldn’t be able to consider him as a trustworthy player.

That is the worst possible path to chose if you hope the game to ever become a big name in the e-sports industry or even a big name in the amazingly fun team PvP games circle.

Please Anet, do not let a game as beautiful as this one become the elitist-lair it’s steadily becoming;
Please, do not let it become GW1;
Please, give players the opportunity to prove themselves to everyone else by themselves.
Please, give a way to people to get noticed.;
Please, let players become part of the networks they need to make your game a successful one, both as a fun and enjoyable game and as an e-sport;
Please, give us a SoloQ-only ladder.

I beg your pardon for my poor English.

Cheers,
Lowell

Totally agree with this post.

Hopefully a lot of people tuned into the streams when we had a heated discussion regarding this matter.

Lowell articulated everything that I would’ve wanted to say in that post.

Lowellollipop.5817:

Posi.4251:

+1 Teldo
+1 Helseth
I think most of “top” players are agree with teldo and helseth.

That’s exaaaaactly where you are wrong Posiqtpie! Not only top players would appreciate it: 90%+ (just a rough guess) of the playerbase would.

Why? Because SoloQ’îng in a rated environment is “the best” way to improve your own mechanical skills, solo decisions, etc that any player can find because he will be matched with and against players of the same skill level who also are playing by themselves and share the same goal: improving (well, this one does not stand true for the very top and very bottom of the ladder in which a lot of people will troll around, but still!).

Please allow me to list a few pros:

- All players would get a place where they can improve their mechanical skills by playing against opponent’s of the same skill level;

- Team players would not have to be scared about affecting their team’s average rating by playing SoloQ;

- Team players would have something to do whenever their full team is not online to play, gathering 5 people is a lot and sometimes you just want to play more;

- Solo players would have a solo ladder to show how good they are whenever they want to join a team and/or create one with people of the same skill level;

- New teams could be born from this system, which would make the game more competitive.

Here’s a little something on that one: In any team-based game that wants to be anywhere near competitive you need to give players an EASY way to create Networks.

Networks are the most IMPORTANT thing a player will need in such games, the good old “be noticeable and get noticed” has always and will always be king in team-based games because it’s what starts everything: joining/creating a team.

As of now, there is ABSOLUTELY no easy way for people who want to be noticed to actually do so because they have no Solo rating, nothing. Guys, in competitive games numbers are THE FIRST thing people will know about you! You know how important a first impression is in life right? It’s the exact same thing in gaming, the only difference is that you’re not judged on how you look, the way you speak or the ammount of money you have in the bank, but on your rating. If you have no rating, you are no one. It’s that simple, really.

Now, let’s think of a game in which being no one was a problem…. from what I gathered we could even take Guild Wars 1 as an example (I’ll be using the ladder type of game, which was GvG and pardon me if I make a mistake). It ended as an elitist-lair in which if you weren’t known no team would bother with you and you would never manage to get into the system, never manage to become “somebody” in the eyes of the people who played the game the way you wanted to play it. Why? Because a player had absolutely NO WAY to get noticed by himself.

Unfortunately, that is the exact same path GW2 is taking. It’s pretty simple. I’ll use my example as someone who’s been playing at the “top” since day 1: the only people I know and would play with in a serious environment are all the other players from top teams with whom and against whom I have played a countless ammount of games. Why? Because I know how good each and every one of them is.

Would I play with someone I don’t know, if I have never heard of that person and there is no rating to show me how good that person is? Obviously, because I’m a fluffy guy so I’d enjoy fun games with anyone. However, there is absolutely no way for me to play seriously with that guy!! I wouldn’t be able to consider him as a trustworthy player.

That is the worst possible path to chose if you hope the game to ever become a big name in the e-sports industry or even a big name in the amazingly fun team PvP games circle.

Please Anet, do not let a game as beautiful as this one become the elitist-lair it’s steadily becoming;
Please, do not let it become GW1;
Please, give players the opportunity to prove themselves to everyone else by themselves.
Please, give a way to people to get noticed.;
Please, let players become part of the networks they need to make your game a successful one, both as a fun and enjoyable game and as an e-sport;
Please, give us a SoloQ-only ladder.

I beg your pardon for my poor English.

Cheers,
Lowell

Awesome post! You’ve said everything there was to say about it! We need this and we need it now!

ArenaNet, you released this game early in order to build it up together with the community! We are trying to help you as much as we can so make sure to at least hear us out!

Danto

Here are my thoughts on the matter from the other thread:

There would be no paids, only solo and team queue with ladder rating as only reward, and then weekly, monthly and yearly “paid” tournaments with entry fee. You could save tickets from daily, monthly rewards to participate in these tournaments.

Yes, i mean solo/ duo queue vs solo/duo, and team vs team queue. Both would have separate ladders ( same as sc/hc ladders in arpg games).You would earn tickets for tournaments by login in every day and completing your daily,monthly pvp achievements but if you cant login every day there would be option to buy them too, so you could buy tickets to participate or just wait next week when you have enough tickets, there would be no grind ( because you dont just play pvp for ticket you also play for your ladder rating) and buying would be completely optional.

There should only be solo rated and team rated queues where only reward is ladder rating, then weekly monthly and yearly solo and team tournaments ( monthly and yearly tournaments possibly with qualifier rounds based on ladder rating if you have limited amount of spots for tournament) with entry fee and proper rewards for winners ( improved team ladder standing, unique pets, titles,armor and weapon skins game shop items etc).
For practice you would have rented arenas. Perfect.
about 2 hours ago

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lowells arguments are good.
Only thing is, they would pretty much need to get rid of the paid/free distinction, and drop tourny tickets.

Because if teams are to learn, they have to play alot together and cant waste time solo quing for tickets.
So solo/duo Q bracket.
And team bracket.

Both 1vs1 with mmr.

Lowellollipop.5817:

Posi.4251:

+1 Teldo
+1 Helseth
I think most of “top” players are agree with teldo and helseth.

That’s exaaaaactly where you are wrong Posiqtpie! Not only top players would appreciate it: 90%+ (just a rough guess) of the playerbase would.

Why? Because SoloQ’îng in a rated environment is “the best” way to improve your own mechanical skills, solo decisions, etc that any player can find because he will be matched with and against players of the same skill level who also are playing by themselves and share the same goal: improving (well, this one does not stand true for the very top and very bottom of the ladder in which a lot of people will troll around, but still!).

Please allow me to list a few pros:

- All players would get a place where they can improve their mechanical skills by playing against opponent’s of the same skill level;

- Team players would not have to be scared about affecting their team’s average rating by playing SoloQ;

- Team players would have something to do whenever their full team is not online to play, gathering 5 people is a lot and sometimes you just want to play more;

- Solo players would have a solo ladder to show how good they are whenever they want to join a team and/or create one with people of the same skill level;

- New teams could be born from this system, which would make the game more competitive.

Here’s a little something on that one: In any team-based game that wants to be anywhere near competitive you need to give players an EASY way to create Networks.

Networks are the most IMPORTANT thing a player will need in such games, the good old “be noticeable and get noticed” has always and will always be king in team-based games because it’s what starts everything: joining/creating a team.

As of now, there is ABSOLUTELY no easy way for people who want to be noticed to actually do so because they have no Solo rating, nothing. Guys, in competitive games numbers are THE FIRST thing people will know about you! You know how important a first impression is in life right? It’s the exact same thing in gaming, the only difference is that you’re not judged on how you look, the way you speak or the ammount of money you have in the bank, but on your rating. If you have no rating, you are no one. It’s that simple, really.

Now, let’s think of a game in which being no one was a problem…. from what I gathered we could even take Guild Wars 1 as an example (I’ll be using the ladder type of game, which was GvG and pardon me if I make a mistake). It ended as an elitist-lair in which if you weren’t known no team would bother with you and you would never manage to get into the system, never manage to become “somebody” in the eyes of the people who played the game the way you wanted to play it. Why? Because a player had absolutely NO WAY to get noticed by himself.

Unfortunately, that is the exact same path GW2 is taking. It’s pretty simple. I’ll use my example as someone who’s been playing at the “top” since day 1: the only people I know and would play with in a serious environment are all the other players from top teams with whom and against whom I have played a countless ammount of games. Why? Because I know how good each and every one of them is.

Would I play with someone I don’t know, if I have never heard of that person and there is no rating to show me how good that person is? Obviously, because I’m a fluffy guy so I’d enjoy fun games with anyone. However, there is absolutely no way for me to play seriously with that guy!! I wouldn’t be able to consider him as a trustworthy player.

That is the worst possible path to chose if you hope the game to ever become a big name in the e-sports industry or even a big name in the amazingly fun team PvP games circle.

Please Anet, do not let a game as beautiful as this one become the elitist-lair it’s steadily becoming;
Please, do not let it become GW1;
Please, give players the opportunity to prove themselves to everyone else by themselves.
Please, give a way to people to get noticed.;
Please, let players become part of the networks they need to make your game a successful one, both as a fun and enjoyable game and as an e-sport;
Please, give us a SoloQ-only ladder.

I beg your pardon for my poor English.

Cheers,
Lowell

/Ovation

You nailed it mate! Superb write up.

Please devs, hear this man out!

Just made the end of my work shift so much better Lowell; Thank you!

Exactly Lowell, thank you. I’m so happy that we as a community at least agree on this. Again, I’m a busy player and I can’t get a team. I really appreciate the fact that the top level players are supportive of a model that would be more inclusive for people like me.

Thanks for the support guys!!!

Let’s make our voices heard =)

If Solo Qs and Team Qs are split, yes, we OBVIOUSLY have a split community BUT

with solo queues, newbies with no teams yet, casuals, and other soloers who stopped playing will start playing in solos since there is assurance that they won’t get stomped by premades EVER and play with other randoms.

At this early stage, we shall expect to see more solo queuers than team Qs. That’s a given BUT

given some time, these solos will eventually form teams and have premades finally queue in Team Qs.

In this case, splitting the community might not be that bad since it has a lot of potential to welcome fresh bloods allowing the competitive community to GROW.