Guild Wars 2

Hello,

The soloq is much better for most of the pvp players, even top teams will miss a guy or dont play for 1 day and that means they cant play in this current sistem.
I want to see the SOLOQ ingame TODAY!
I want to see you ASKING COMMUNITY WHAT THEY WANT AND STOP THE BULL****.
We should decide what will be implemented ingame, we play the game.

We need soloq to make the players actually better at this game, no one is enjoying stomping lesser players.

plx separate soloqueue from teamq so u never will fight premades in soloqueue but then u will play with people of ur same rating that would be awesome …
and of course u need a ladder for teamq and soloq. separate soloqueue will rez guildwars 2. so plx don’t let gw 2 be stomped by stupid people…. u already made good comparisons to league of legends… observermode must come, free servers where u can train, maybe a 2v2 3v3 4v4 5v5 arena ?? and then polish the maps/classdesigns …

soloqueue attracts new players which leads to new talents and new groups/ more competition.

AGAIN SEPARATE SOLOQUEUE AND TEAMQUEUE nobody wants to play solo with randooms vs a premade group ….

if u re not gonna separate soloqueu from teamqueue then i know why u do this : because gw2 lacks the playerbase atm. there are too little numbers of players playing pvp in the mists.

Separate queuing doesn’t work IF you don’t have enough players. If you have millions of players like LoL then you can be more restrictive with the queuing system.

An xample is firefall (still in beta) before I coud queue and get into a PvP matching in 3 minutes, now takes up to 20 minutes to do some of the matches because they decided to split queuing. (it’s just an example of what happens when you segregate queuing in a low pop system).

And geez people what’s with the hypeboles, everything someone is going to lead the game into ruin. Just remember sometimes the best thing for the game might not be the best thing for the in the short run.

Well I’m going to go against everyone here:

Don’t introduce soloQ unless you can’t make a comprehensive solution that would combine both a solo ladder and a team ladder.

I wholeheartedly agree with what Lowell pointed out and that was developed by Eristina: bring the players together, facilitate networking and contacts between the players, make it easier to improve and to show the world where they stand in terms of “skill”.

But you don’t have to introduce soloQ to get all these benefits. The following system would pretty much reconcile the both of the two worlds.

3 types of games exclusively:
- unranked through the current jot joins
- ranked games
- tournaments-style matches of growing importance (daily, monthly, annual)

How do the ranked matches work?
Season based games: for a 3-4 months, the competition is on 24/7 and is open to everyone. You can join freely and any time as solo or as a group of friends or you can register a team for the whole season and then play under that team tag. You can then face anyone who has entered the season.

Everyone playing ranked games gains and loses rating on the individual ladder.
On the other hand, registered teams gain and lose ratings on the team ladder.

Now comes the hard part:
1/ how do you calculate team and individual rating?
2/ how do you match players against each other?

I’m going to let Anet’s developers show us how awesome they are and assume they’ve come up with a hell of an algorithm. If done well, it results in something like this: (figures are completely random, it’s just to give an idea)

- 5 solos of individual rank 20 face 5 other solos of individual rank20
- a 4-man group of average individual rank 15 plus a solo of individual rank 25 face a full group of individual rank 20
- a registered team with a team rank of 10 but only 3 players plus a group of 2 whose individual rank is 15 face a full registered team whose team rank is 10.

Whatever the situation, the rating calculation and the matchmaking have to be done so that matches are balanced, players are not demotivated when losing rating and registered teams are not penalised for playing with pick ups.

You also have to take care of “exploits” : end season farming, protecting one’s rating by tanking others with smurfs, going down as a team to then gain individual rank, make your own team lose on purpose fir whatever reason, etc, etc…

If the above is impossible to achieve or to complex to code, then yeah introduce a soloQ system.

But if you can do it correctly, you’ll achieve the recognition effect Lowell and Eristina explained and much more: incomplete teams will play with people they’d never have thus making contacts and networking much easier, the player base would be united, more alive, you’d progress much quicker since matches are balanced and cover every situation etc, etc

I will start playing again if a good rated solo que is implemented well, and so will some friends who quit aswell, but i can see aanets system being exploited if they dont listen to the players or release a open ptr so we can test problems..
What if it turns out that getting 2 players with very bad rating and queing as a 3man group is the most efficient way of gaining rating because you mostly face the high rated solo and duo quers without voip and then EVERYONE will abuse that and only que as 3/4 man groups with low rated players, and the solo and duo quers will be at a huge disadvantage and just stop queing solo because they don’t want to lose rating, so it will just snowball and end up like the current free tournaments where you are forced to que as a group or just get kitten on. Without a separate solo/duo que only rated bracket I can’t see how it will be balanced or fun.

This games competitive spvp needs to be less about social networking and more about individual skill based, theres no inbuilt way in the game prove your skill. Every game has systems to be competitive without needing 4 other players (with the same skill/schedule/timezone/goals/attitude) whether its dueling or rated solo que or 2vs2/3vs3 arenas. There are kittenloads of players that are teamless or have no time and cbf to network and create/join teams but want to be able to compete at a high level.

Remove hotjoints and have :
-Free solo/duo sPVP games that reward tickets per win
-Free premade 5vs5 sPVP games that reward ticket sper win
These will be the new hotjoin but players will actually learn conquest gamemode and stop zerging.
-Rated single game paid solo/duo que
-Rated single game paid premade 5vs5
-Twice a day Paid tournaments with big rewards.

Free tourneys (3 rounds), 8v8 and hotjoin need to go. Thats key actually. Queue type isnt as important. Ratings are. But honestly I dont care if I run into a premade every once in a while

I’d kill frees as they are atm off entirely. Get rid of 8v8, its stupid and no map is designed for it.

If you can’t/don’t have the tech for solo/team queue split in paids, then make free the same structure as paids (solo/team queue) but free with crap rewards and no ranking where people can play free, quick, and practice, and without fear of ever getting their rating smacked around. This way, at least, we strike a bit of a middle-ground where people can practice. (Though then I’m a bit worried that this would split the pop unhealthily.)

This leaves us with three formats: 5v5 hot-join (might want to trash this too), free 1v1, and paid & ranked 1v1. Round off each week (on the weekends) and month with a tourney.

Khyras.8021:

JonPeters.5630:

I don’t really think it is a matter of right vs wrong. Separating the queues is technology we haven’t developed. Bracketing them so that when you queue you play as 5s,4s,3s,2s,solo you tend to queue vs those is something we are working towards because its part of a robust single system. It also is the version that solves everything except the edge cases without fragmenting the player base and creating long wait times in certain brackets. This is why this is the right system for the game RIGHT NOW.

It isn’t that the points Teldo, et al. make are invalid they are just more valid for a more mature game like LoL, a game which has been out 3 longer than we have.

What do you mean separating queues is the technology you havent developed? You already have 3 separate queues spvp, free and paid tourneys.Playerbase is already fragmented into 3 segments, removing entry fee for pvp and adding separate ladders and queues for people who want to queue solo or in group is the way you go if you want more people in pvp. 2 queues doesnt fragment playerbase, it gives players options to play how they want and when they want, nothing stops team players to queue up for solo queue matches to advance their solo queue ladder standing when their team is not up.

I think what he means is that they have no way to “combine” these features, which is what it would take to create a solo queue ladder; you’d have to take team segregation from hotjoin, queue system from the new paids, and re-develop the rating system algorithm twice to account for solo queue and team based ladders. Not to mention they’d have to create all new UI and ect…

It’s clear that we all know how essential solo queue is to driving a competitive scene, I talked to Sharp about it weeks ago. The sad truth is that A) we don’t have the player base to harbor it without rating inflation and horrendously long queue times, and B) the time it would take to develop, test, and implement this would be a nightmare.

If you even look at LoL; a game with 5mil+ concurrent players, only had ~300k players participate in ranked last season, we barely have 300 people playing spvp concurrently as it is. You have to remember that the majority of the casual player base will not play ranked for fear of obtaining low rating, would you rely want to play a solo queue against the same 30 people all day?

Although this system isn’t going to get the game anywhere near esports ready, it’s better than the god awful QP ladder we have currently; and perhaps if it attracts people back into the game we can get a dedicated solo queue ladder and progress the competitive scene towards esports level.

It’s also worth noting that this system has a very broad and strong infrastructure for change based on population growth, example: once they get 10k players on the ladder with steady ratings, they could begin to adopt a league system (like sc2 and LoL now use), or even simply segregate the demographics and just reset ratings. I don’t LOVE the new ladder system in its current state, but I like how it gives us choices down the road.

Zodian.6597:

Khyras.8021:

JonPeters.5630:

I don’t really think it is a matter of right vs wrong. Separating the queues is technology we haven’t developed. Bracketing them so that when you queue you play as 5s,4s,3s,2s,solo you tend to queue vs those is something we are working towards because its part of a robust single system. It also is the version that solves everything except the edge cases without fragmenting the player base and creating long wait times in certain brackets. This is why this is the right system for the game RIGHT NOW.

It isn’t that the points Teldo, et al. make are invalid they are just more valid for a more mature game like LoL, a game which has been out 3 longer than we have.

What do you mean separating queues is the technology you havent developed? You already have 3 separate queues spvp, free and paid tourneys.Playerbase is already fragmented into 3 segments, removing entry fee for pvp and adding separate ladders and queues for people who want to queue solo or in group is the way you go if you want more people in pvp. 2 queues doesnt fragment playerbase, it gives players options to play how they want and when they want, nothing stops team players to queue up for solo queue matches to advance their solo queue ladder standing when their team is not up.

I think what he means is that they have no way to “combine” these features, which is what it would take to create a solo queue ladder; you’d have to take team segregation from hotjoin, queue system from the new paids, and re-develop the rating system algorithm twice to account for solo queue and team based ladders. Not to mention they’d have to create all new UI and ect…

It’s clear that we all know how essential solo queue is to driving a competitive scene, I talked to Sharp about it weeks ago. The sad truth is that A) we don’t have the player base to harbor it without rating inflation and horrendously long queue times, and the time it would take to develop, test, and implement this would be a nightmare.

If you even look at LoL; a game with 5mil+ concurrent players, only had ~300k players participate in ranked last season, we barely have 300 people playing spvp concurrently as it is. You have to remember that the majority of the casual player base will not play ranked for fear of obtaining low rating, would you rely want to play a solo queue against the same 30 people all day?

Although this system isn’t going to get the game anywhere near esports ready, it’s better than the god awful QP ladder we have currently; and perhaps if it attracts people back into the game we can get a dedicated solo queue ladder and progress the competitive scene towards esports level.

It’s also worth noting that this system has a very broad and strong infrastructure for change based on population growth, example: once they get 10k players on the ladder with steady ratings, they could begin to adopt a league system (like sc2 and LoL now use), or even simply segregate the demographics and just reset ratings. I don’t LOVE the new ladder system in its current state, but I like how it gives us choices down the road.

Population is low largely because there is no solo queue so they dont want solo queue because population is low? That doesnt make any sense. If population is low you can launch solo queue without matchmaking, its 5 random pug vs 5 random pug there is no way you will get 5 random random ppl rank 10 vs 5 random ppl rank 40 every time or ever imo. Later when population raises you can introduce matchmaking if you want and tweak it based on queue times ( say, 1000 ppl divided into 10 rank based tiers plays solo queue and queue time is too long? you divide them into 8 tiers queue time goes down problem solved).

JonathanSharp.7094:

As others have said, splitting the queue’s entirely can be bad. But it also means solo’s always play solos, and teams always play teams.

There are pro/cons to both options. We’re watching your debates/points and in the end, we will try to make the best system for the game’s health.

Before I respond I say I agree with most of what Lowell said.

But most the drawbacks of splitting them entirely are solved by the fact that we don’t have the 8-team system to worry about anymore.

I feel LoL’s version of “Solo or Duo” queue is a good solution, as long as it keeps the amount of “duo” queues on each team equal. Because in that game I honestly have played solo and duo queue just as much if not more than I’ve played full team games. The Duo option is great to be able to play with friends and not feel “lonely” even if you are doing queues without a full team.

I will have absolutely no problem waiting for a little more queue time to ensure the teams are fair.

With that said, please don’t forget that solo queue also has a big psychological aspect. Anxiety is a big problem with new players – this is apparent from not just LoL but SC2 as well. If players aren’t 100% sure that both A) they will be facing someone around their level, and they won’t be facing a premade team… This inevitably leads to anxiety for the player.

This psychological aspect is a big issue. Because without the solo queue, even if this player just gets stomped, they are going to assume it was to a premade. After once or twice they can tell themselves it was just bad luck, but if it happens for a bad streak? People will easily say “Screw this”…

Also I’d like to point at that some games that had very successful PvP at launch (SWToR for example) ended up dying off at endgame because of no solo queue. Sure, other things led to the game dying as well, but if you look at the primary reason that all the players state as the reason they quit, this was #1.

Solo queue would be so hard to pull off in the current state of the game, where team composition is so important.

For example, you would solo queue, get against ppl who are in your rating bracket, but the other team got a bunker, or 2, and you don’t.
Or you get the most bizarre compositions ever, like 2 necros 3 mesmers, 4 thieves and an ele, etc, etc, running around like headless chicken without properly defined roles in the abscence of vocal communication.

Those who tried solo-queuing in frees know what I’m talking about. Yeah, it’s not only about pugs vs premades.

In short, to be effective the system would have to insure not only that you play against pugs in your bracket, but also balance team compositions.

Exactly like a normal dungeon LFG tool. Which Guild Wars 2 doesnt’t have.

That would mean acknowledging and validating the current bunker/roamer/support role trinity meta.
Which is, most of tourny players agree, not in a perfect place balance-wise, and will surely be the subject of big changes in the near future.

That would mean implementing tools which would recognize your build as one of the above roles. I know Rift had one of those, but the class/role/build system was designed around that idea. Guild Wars 2 is “supposed to be” the opposite of this kind of role system, and has nowhere near the same tool.

Also, as mentionned above, the time, effort, and ressources needed to only implement the UI, when the pvp team is already working his kitten off on Matchmaking and Ratings, and when the game is nowhere near polished enough.
It would take at least half a year of development in the current state of the game.

Much too soon for a Solo-queue system.

Prelude.3817:

Solo queue would be so hard to pull off in the current state of the game, where team composition is so important.

For example, you would solo queue, get against ppl who are in your rating bracket, but the other team got a bunker, or 2, and you don’t.
Or you get the most bizarre compositions ever, like 2 necros 3 mesmers, 4 thieves and an ele, etc, etc, running around like headless chicken without properly defined roles in the abscence of vocal communication.

Those who tried solo-queuing in frees know what I’m talking about. Yeah, it’s not only about pugs vs premades.

In short, to be effective the system would have to insure not only that you play against pugs in your bracket, but also balance team compositions.

Exactly like a normal dungeon LFG tool. Which Guild Wars 2 doesnt’t have.

That would mean acknowledging and validating the current bunker/roamer/support role trinity meta.
Which is, most of tourny players agree, not in a perfect place balance-wise, and will surely be the subject of big changes in the near future.

That would mean implementing tools which would recognize your build as one of the above roles. I know Rift had one of those, but the class/role/build system was designed around that idea. Guild Wars 2 is “supposed to be” the opposite of this kind of role system, and has nowhere near the same tool.

Also, as mentionned above, the time, effort, and ressources needed to only implement the UI, when the pvp team is already working his kitten off on Matchmaking and Ratings, and when the game is nowhere near polished enough.
It would take at least half a year of development in the current state of the game.

Much too soon for a Solo-queue system.

I disagree, biggest problem in frees is pug vs premade not unbalanced team composition. So what if you have 4 thieves 1 ele team against you, learn, adapt overcome. Balance the game so that 5 warriors can take on and defeat 5 mesmers. Just what exactly are you suggesting? only 5 vs 5 premade and f..k solo players? Oh it would take too long to develop proper matchmaking whaaaa whaaa the f..k have they been doing for the past 6 months? I cant believe this s..t.

Overall, I think Arenanet is making a very good decision and moving in the right direction.

Removing the 3-round, 8 team tournament system and supplementing it with a 1-round, 2 team system is far superior. Not to mention a ranking system will also be intertwined which is well overdue.

I was slightly disappointed with how lacking the structured PVP was at release. Mostly because GW1 had a very solid (though no where near perfect) system already in place.
I was hoping they could have converted a similar system for release and upgrade later as needed. But I digress, I am happy they are taking this new route as opposed to their original tPvP format.

At this point, I feel that Jon makes a great point in regards to how both a combined or split ranking system has a great deal of both pros and cons. In the short term, I feel that the combined system will be more beneficial (especially if the technology isn’t where it needs to be for a split ranking system – this would be the biggest issue), but the trouble with the combined system is that until GW2’s pvp population peaks, the chance of solo’s/duo’s being queued with full premades will be exceptionally high.

Ultimately, my recommendation would be to at least make free sPvP solo/duo queue oriented (no queueing with more than 2 people), but then mold the tPvP (paid) into this combined system that is spoken of. Ofcourse the largest issue is that you’re basically further splitting your communities, but as the pvp scene begins to further grow, this will not be an issue whatsoever. I understand that technically you are still building two diverse systems, but with solo/duo queueing being predominately in the sPvP realm and full premades 5v5 remaining in the tPvP realm then the systems should be easier to put in place compared to that of two diverse tPvP systems to cater to both groups. As technology and popularity permits with time, it then may be advisable to go with a split system for tPvP. In the end, you need a stable and “safe” foundation for both solo/duo players and full premades.

From my perspective, joined queue for both solo and team queue means that you will get pug vs partial ( 3 or 4 people grouped with voice chat) or full premades. I do not want advantage of being grouped with partial premade vs pug and i ESPECIALLY do not want disadvantage of being part of pug team matched with partial or full premade. That system is nothing but current frees + rating. When you lose the match, you wont even know was it because you and people in your team played bad, or because you faced partial or full premade.
This system is bad ONLY for solo players, people who play with a team will never be at a disadvantage of getting unfair match. I wanna thank Lowell tho for supporting separate queues, and for raising that question at latest sotg.

hey friends!

first sry for my english.

i really really can not understand why everybody is talking about a community split. if they make solo queue, then there will be soloqers and nons. and of course players who like both. and if they make something new, there will be people who will like it. as there will always be many people who like and play certain aspects of the game. and all of them are playing and liking guildwars. – like all for one, one for all
also from this point: the community will not split, it is already if you seperate the aspects of guildwars. i dont like this point of view.

as a dev: if a have the option to create a new “subtype” by – and thats how it sounds to me – just implementing a solo queue in addition to other types of spvp and maybe get some new players into pvp, why not just do it? if it doesnt work, at least i have tried it.

so wathever great u devs are already planning right now, if that many players are shouting for the 1v1 version of solo queues, you should probably know what to do.

so long
kito

ps: i love engineers!

Sometime around early January I just lost motivation to play GW2, I had completed what PvE content I wanted to, but was really looking for the PvP to hold my attention (which it didn’t at the time). I noticed the new patch and the 1 round tournament system that had been implemented (nice job devs), and thought I’d come back for a bit to check things out. After a day or two of casual Hot Join just to refresh, I hopped back into Free Tournies. Played in two, didn’t seem like much had changed, but whatever, the combat’s still fun.

Then. Just joined my third Free Tourny and got placed on a team of 4, against a 5-man premade. 500-0. No fun was had.

The PvP in this game is currently extremely offputting for the casual player. I do not want to spend time finding/arranging a team. I’d like to be able to quickly sign up for for, and play a meaningful PvP match (Hot Join is still a mess). I’d like to be guaranteed that I will be placed on a full roster (I find the fact that 4-mans still exist a laughable matter) and not get my face stomped in by an organized, coordinated group. Ranked Solo queue has been something I wanted back in November, please add this. Perhaps I’ll be back in another month.

TL;DR Add a ranked solo queue.

What if they introduced knobs and levers to the queuing process?

Like if you’re a solo player and you don’t want to play against 3+ premade teams you can set that as your matchmaking search parameters. It might take longer to get into a match but it’s your choice.
Players who want their match more quickly can enter unrestricted – they will be matched with anyone against anyone premade or not. That might be a good option for a high elo solo player who wants to get noticed by the premade teams.

In addition, MMR will change depending on the similarities between the teams. Like a 5 man pug vs a 5 man premade will only gain/lose 20% of the MMR that equivalent teams would get.

The point of a ranking system is to have a set standard to compare against other players.
How do you compare someone who is ranked#2 who soloes vs the rank#1 who only plays 5v5?
It’s impossible to compare and shouldn’t be on the same ladder.
+1 for Helseth and Lowell

Khyras.8021:

Zodian.6597:

Khyras.8021:

JonPeters.5630:

I don’t really think it is a matter of right vs wrong. Separating the queues is technology we haven’t developed. Bracketing them so that when you queue you play as 5s,4s,3s,2s,solo you tend to queue vs those is something we are working towards because its part of a robust single system. It also is the version that solves everything except the edge cases without fragmenting the player base and creating long wait times in certain brackets. This is why this is the right system for the game RIGHT NOW.

It isn’t that the points Teldo, et al. make are invalid they are just more valid for a more mature game like LoL, a game which has been out 3 longer than we have.

What do you mean separating queues is the technology you havent developed? You already have 3 separate queues spvp, free and paid tourneys.Playerbase is already fragmented into 3 segments, removing entry fee for pvp and adding separate ladders and queues for people who want to queue solo or in group is the way you go if you want more people in pvp. 2 queues doesnt fragment playerbase, it gives players options to play how they want and when they want, nothing stops team players to queue up for solo queue matches to advance their solo queue ladder standing when their team is not up.

I think what he means is that they have no way to “combine” these features, which is what it would take to create a solo queue ladder; you’d have to take team segregation from hotjoin, queue system from the new paids, and re-develop the rating system algorithm twice to account for solo queue and team based ladders. Not to mention they’d have to create all new UI and ect…

It’s clear that we all know how essential solo queue is to driving a competitive scene, I talked to Sharp about it weeks ago. The sad truth is that A) we don’t have the player base to harbor it without rating inflation and horrendously long queue times, and the time it would take to develop, test, and implement this would be a nightmare.

If you even look at LoL; a game with 5mil+ concurrent players, only had ~300k players participate in ranked last season, we barely have 300 people playing spvp concurrently as it is. You have to remember that the majority of the casual player base will not play ranked for fear of obtaining low rating, would you rely want to play a solo queue against the same 30 people all day?

Although this system isn’t going to get the game anywhere near esports ready, it’s better than the god awful QP ladder we have currently; and perhaps if it attracts people back into the game we can get a dedicated solo queue ladder and progress the competitive scene towards esports level.

It’s also worth noting that this system has a very broad and strong infrastructure for change based on population growth, example: once they get 10k players on the ladder with steady ratings, they could begin to adopt a league system (like sc2 and LoL now use), or even simply segregate the demographics and just reset ratings. I don’t LOVE the new ladder system in its current state, but I like how it gives us choices down the road.

Population is low largely because there is no solo queue so they dont want solo queue because population is low? That doesnt make any sense. If population is low you can launch solo queue without matchmaking, its 5 random pug vs 5 random pug there is no way you will get 5 random random ppl rank 10 vs 5 random ppl rank 40 every time or ever imo. Later when population raises you can introduce matchmaking if you want and tweak it based on queue times ( say, 1000 ppl divided into 10 rank based tiers plays solo queue and queue time is too long? you divide them into 8 tiers queue time goes down problem solved).

I don’t think you understand, there would literally be < 100 people who would queue into ratings based solo queue right now. You’d get 2k mmr players playing against 1k mmr players after the queue fails to find games in their bracket. Just because it’s the reason people quit doesn’t mean it will just instantly bring all of them back and it certainly doesn’t mean that upon returning they will instantly queue into ranked games.

dimyzuka.7051:

Zodian.6597:

I don’t think you understand, there would literally be < 100 people who would queue into ratings based solo queue right now. You’d get 2k mmr players playing against 1k mmr players after the queue fails to find games in their bracket. Just because it’s the reason people quit doesn’t mean it will just instantly bring all of them back and it certainly doesn’t mean that upon returning they will instantly queue into ranked games.

if you can’t see how solo que would be by far the most popular queing bracket and would bring hundreds of players like myself back who quit the game you need to play some other competitive pvp games and get a feel as to what pvp players want.

You’d get 2k mmr players playing against 1k mmr players after the queue fails to find games in their bracket.

With this proposed system the SAME thing will happen, ASWELL as the possibility of facing a premade team as a solo que’d team and then lose rating for it.

With Aanets system i can already see the fail, just like we saw the fail with their 8team tournament system on release, just like their fail no incentive no meaningfull reason to pvp system;
John Doe has 2 hours free before work, he logs on to que some rated solo que pvp and get his ranking up, first game he gets in against a premade as a pug, his team mate goes afk because he doesn’t care about rating and doesn’t like to get bent over and kitten He just wasted 30mins in a 4vs5 which he couldn’t leave AND loses rating. It just so happens that 5min after Johns que popped another 5 solo players were registered into the system, but as they just missed out on johns team they get matched up against a premade aswell after a short wait and many tears are had.

It doesn’t matter how long the wait times are with a proper solo que because with their proposed system its basically wasting 30minutes AND losing rating if u meet a premade. I would rather wait a little extra longer (messing around in hotjoins or browsing net/streams)in que to get a proper solo vs solo match than get an instant que into a mismatch against a premade where im almost guaranteed to lose rating and have 0 enjoyment, and then que again and run the same risk again, if i am unlucky whos knows how long it will take and how many tears before i get my solo vs solo match i want.

This is all assuming that ques will be instant with their system which won’t be the case, how long will ques be? how long will it wait before giving up on a solo match and matching you against a premade? Imagine waiting 20minutes ONLY to get a premade.

And like jumper said whats the point of even having a ranking system if its so unbalanced, if they do ignore everyone and put in this system they will at least HAVE to have 2 separate ladders (solo/group) otherwise the whole system is flawed and noone will want to que as solo because it will ruin their rating. It’s obvious this sytem will fail for solo quers, and will force everyone into social networking wars2, then they will probably use those numbers to make an argument that solo que isnt a priority.

yeah idk, it’s rely going to depend on how this systems actually going to be implemented. I think the reason that they are giving us rank over a numerical ratings is because there are literally <200 people actively queueing in paids right now (and i have 1/2 of them on my friends list lol). So it will make people feel better about being rank 200 in NA rather than having like 2 players at ridiculously inflated ratings and the rest at meh/deflated rating numbers.
Also, with the current spvp population being as low as it is, solo queue could be abused hardcore, examples being: you could queue on weekday mornings, effectively dodging like the entire competitive player base and just farm rating, or you could watch friends list and wait for a match to finish then queue at the same time as a friend and get put into the same game, you’re also very likely to queue into people who are on your friends list anyways, so you could easily just get into VOIP with that person and win via dominant communication. It’s just too easy to manipulate who you queue into at this point.

considering the population is already split between hotjoin & tourneys, being concerned about a population split with the proposed solo Q is a bit redundant.

whatever new Solo Q system that gets implemented should be replacing or augmenting the Hotjoin system, which is the current Solo Q system.

like it or hate it, 95% of the pvp playerbase plays in Hotjoin. that alone should tell ANet what the popularity of Solo Q really is; despite universal disdain that the Hotjoin gametype garners from the community, it is the core of GW2 pvp.

Hotjoin is where the changes need to happen. Instead of 8v8 & 5v5 servers, have Ranked & Unranked Single Map Solo Q ( 5v5 always ). same population distribution, more progressive gameplay.

then it is more simple to continue to strengthen the development of 1v1 paid matchmaking queues without worrying about population splitting.

I feel that hotjoin was an error, they should have started 1team vs 1 team , solo Q and team Q right from the start.

Having Solo queue for free tournaments is not a good idea. This is mainly because there is not enough players in this game and the queue will be way longer. However a better version of the solo queue is A 1 Team vs 1 Team matches with a ladder like gw1. they can separate it so that it’s a solo queue 1 team vs 1 team and a premade queue for paid… and for tournaments they can just implement the daily/monthly tournament. that way the time to get a match will improve…

So when are the Solo Q or whatever Anet have in their mind gonna be in the game cause if it isn’t anything that makes the situation bearable I won’t even bother to log in?

A perfect solution to this:
For solo queue games, winner team stay for the next match, loser team out and disband. If a solo queue team made 5 consecutive wins, treat it as a premade team and match it with teams from premade queue thereafter.

Sounds familiar?

JonathanSharp.7094:

As others have said, splitting the queue’s entirely can be bad. But it also means solo’s always play solos, and teams always play teams.

There are pro/cons to both options. We’re watching your debates/points and in the end, we will try to make the best system for the game’s health.

Lowellollipop.5817:

As of now, there is ABSOLUTELY no easy way for people who want to be noticed to actually do so because they have no Solo rating, nothing. Guys, in competitive games numbers are THE FIRST thing people will know about you! You know how important a first impression is in life right? It’s the exact same thing in gaming, the only difference is that you’re not judged on how you look, the way you speak or the ammount of money you have in the bank, but on your rating. If you have no rating, you are no one. It’s that simple, really.

I agree with most of your post, but feel the need to add in my point of view as a GW veteran.

Another major issue with GW2 is it still has no observer mode (and I honestly missed that more than any matchmaking out there).
Good play is noticeable, but if there is no way to observe it, there is no way for others to know about it, unless the team/players who fought vs good, but unknown opponents don’t spread the word. It was how you made reputation for yourself on GW, and you didn’t need any solo queuing for that.

Besides, you mention elitist atittude on GW and then give rankings as an example of how it should have been done. How’s that NOT ‘elitist’ – it is exactly the thing people complained a lot about on GW too; the fact you needed r9+, or r12+ to join a decent pug team was a major turn-off to most casuals/newcomers.

Lowellollipop.5817:

Now, let’s think of a game in which being no one was a problem…. from what I gathered we could even take Guild Wars 1 as an example (I’ll be using the ladder type of game, which was GvG and pardon me if I make a mistake). It ended as an elitist-lair in which if you weren’t known no team would bother with you and you would never manage to get into the system, never manage to become “somebody” in the eyes of the people who played the game the way you wanted to play it. Why? Because a player had absolutely NO WAY to get noticed by himself.

Despite all its faults, GW flourished for a long, long time, so it appears the system itself worked as intended. But then again the game feels far more connected than GW2.

Lowellollipop.5817:

Unfortunately, that is the exact same path GW2 is taking. It’s pretty simple. I’ll use my example as someone who’s been playing at the “top” since day 1: the only people I know and would play with in a serious environment are all the other players from top teams with whom and against whom I have played a countless ammount of games. Why? Because I know how good each and every one of them is.

Would I play with someone I don’t know, if I have never heard of that person and there is no rating to show me how good that person is? Obviously, because I’m a fluffy guy so I’d enjoy fun games with anyone. However, there is absolutely no way for me to play seriously with that guy!! I wouldn’t be able to consider him as a trustworthy player.

And that’s what it all comes down to at the end of the day.

It is that attitude that ‘outsiders’ usually call elitist, or experience it as such. Although I think it’s perfectly normal to only trust and rely on people you know because you’ve played with/against them countless of times – I have done exactly the same in GW heydays – it does pose a major issue once the player base starts dwindling, and coupled with a general lack of ‘fresh blood’, it ends up a deserted place. Similar to how most pvp servers look like now (on both games), but with the difference it took GW approximately 5-6 years to get to that sorry state of affairs. Compare that to how long it took GW2 pvp playerbase to colapse in that manner.

Lowellollipop.5817:

That is the worst possible path to chose if you hope the game to ever become a big name in the e-sports industry or even a big name in the amazingly fun team PvP games circle.

Please Anet, do not let a game as beautiful as this one become the elitist-lair it’s steadily becoming;
Please, do not let it become GW1;
Please, give players the opportunity to prove themselves to everyone else by themselves.
Please, give a way to people to get noticed.;
Please, let players become part of the networks they need to make your game a successful one, both as a fun and enjoyable game and as an e-sport;
Please, give us a SoloQ-only ladder.

People still holding onto the hope of gw2 becoming an e-sports? Best of luck there.
If this game had half the features GW has, it might actually stand a decent chance in that regard.
As far as the GW hate is concerned, say all you want, but when it comes to serious recruiting at the top, it’s always an ‘either we know you (well), or don’t bother’ kind of thing. Unless you have no one to choose from in that regard, that is. Every teams wants the best players they can possibly get, you can barely hold that against them.

With solo queue/ladder/rating i wouldn’t need friggin team nor would i look for one, nor would i have too look for one in order to compete, that’s the whole point. Who says 100 people who play paids constantly are the best pvp players in this game? Maybe there are 100 people who don’t want/cant play as a team who are better than those 100 team players? Without solo queue no one will ever know.

Khyras.8021:

With solo queue/ladder/rating i wouldn’t need friggin team nor would i look for one, nor would i have too look for one in order to compete, that’s the whole point. Who says 100 people who play paids constantly are the best pvp players in this game? Maybe there are 100 people who don’t want/cant play as a team who are better than those 100 team players? Without solo queue no one will ever know.

This is a fair point. But i think theres something to be said for teamwork skill.

People would know who the best solo players are, and who the best team players are.
Obviously good solo players would be able to play well in a team. And likewise, good team players who are in the high end paids would undoubetly do well solo.

Up this post

Hi guys,
I completely found myself in what said Lowell.
Nothing more to say. J
I was just anxious to bring my support for Ladder Solo and I hope that we shall be listened to. I think of being a good example of these player who wait for SoloQ and I know that we are many!
It’s painful when one do not want to put a lot into a team and when we have not desire to speak to people, to have no means to play with players of our level.

Sry for my bad eng but i think its important, each people brings his support

[quote=1394619;JonathanSharp.7094:

We’re not entirely opposed to a solo queue system, it just comes with many pros and cons, and we’re being careful to make sure we do what’s best for the player base and growing the game (both for new/casual players, and hardcore players).

[/quote]

dont tell us generic kitten like this. tell us the pros and cons you have discussed in ur meetings and gather the chance of the playbase, to confute your arguments.

89% of people i know are looking forwart a solo ladder and matchmaking!

WTF!

Setup a solo only queue with ranked matching and i think the amount of people doing free tournaments will skyrocket overnight.

I’m thinking it will be the start of something very positive.

This then only needs to be followed by esport applicable balance.

I allows me to up this post

Get rid of all systems including hot join and give us ranked solo queue and ranked team queue.

Sure, ideally you would want non ranked games to try stuff out, but the player base isn’t large enough. Make your solo rank be bound to your character, not your account.

It would be fine, imo, if this rated queue were mixed given the hemorrhaging population.
Just make the ratings seperate. One ladder for when you queue solo. Another for premades. (Make anything 2-5 queue or maybe only 3-5 count for your “premade” ranking)
If it pushes through with mixed rating, I can almost guarantee a drop in population.

As long as MMR is calculated solely based on win/loss, this is a non-issue. If a “competitive” solo player reaches a point at which he only queues against organized teams and loses because of it, he’ll drop back into the range of other high-end solo players or mid-range teams.
I’m with Arenanet on this one; the proposed system should work just fine.

A side note: A very strong player will have a hard time even reaching his “actual skill” level of MMR playing with pugs simply because of the way he/she can and will lose games and by extension MMR due to allies below his/her skill threshold.

I dont think people understand what the issue would be with introducing solo Q.

Youd have solo Q free, team Q free. Paid.-still team q for now lets assume.

Now, do you think free team Q’s would ever pop? NO. Because its hard to get frees to pop now, ur not going to get 8 premades (40 ppl ) quing free tournies.
Frees are a few premades and mostly solo Q players.

Now how do new teams pratice? they have to do paids. Which requires tickets, which means they have to farm JUST TO PLAY TOGETHRE AS A TEAM.

The issue with solo Q is that they would have to complely rework the free/paid distinction. Even perhaps getting rid of paid tickets.

THAT is the big issue here.

daydream.2938:

I dont think people understand what the issue would be with introducing solo Q.

Youd have solo Q free, team Q free. Paid.-still team q for now lets assume.

Now, do you think free team Q’s would ever pop? NO. Because its hard to get frees to pop now, ur not going to get 8 premades (40 ppl ) quing free tournies.
Frees are a few premades and mostly solo Q players.

Now how do new teams pratice? they have to do paids. Which requires tickets, which means they have to farm JUST TO PLAY TOGETHRE AS A TEAM.

The issue with solo Q is that they would have to complely rework the free/paid distinction. Even perhaps getting rid of paid tickets.

THAT is the big issue here.

I’d rather have 1 option for teams and 1 for solo/duo than 2 options for teams and 0 for solo/duo. As the population rises due to having more interesting matches for new players (read: not 500-15), the game could potentially support team frees, solo frees, team paids, and solo paids.

Also, paids currently have working matchmaking, which makes them the perfect place for a 5-man team of rank ~10 players to practice together. If a low-rank team joins a free using the current system, they’ll probably win 5v4, win 5v4, lose 500-0 against a rank 40-50 premade.

Solo queue “competitive” play? GG, RIP.

This game, and actually all games wich want an e-sport impact, have to take a SoloQ mode, that’s all. There is not a secret, don’t even know how some people can just don’t accept this fact.

NevirSayDie.6235:

daydream.2938:

I dont think people understand what the issue would be with introducing solo Q.

Youd have solo Q free, team Q free. Paid.-still team q for now lets assume.

Now, do you think free team Q’s would ever pop? NO. Because its hard to get frees to pop now, ur not going to get 8 premades (40 ppl ) quing free tournies.
Frees are a few premades and mostly solo Q players.

Now how do new teams pratice? they have to do paids. Which requires tickets, which means they have to farm JUST TO PLAY TOGETHRE AS A TEAM.

The issue with solo Q is that they would have to complely rework the free/paid distinction. Even perhaps getting rid of paid tickets.

THAT is the big issue here.

I’d rather have 1 option for teams and 1 for solo/duo than 2 options for teams and 0 for solo/duo. As the population rises due to having more interesting matches for new players (read: not 500-15), the game could potentially support team frees, solo frees, team paids, and solo paids.

Also, paids currently have working matchmaking, which makes them the perfect place for a 5-man team of rank ~10 players to practice together. If a low-rank team joins a free using the current system, they’ll probably win 5v4, win 5v4, lose 500-0 against a rank 40-50 premade.

New teams/players dont have alot of tickets, and wont win even half there paids. They would run out of the few they have too quick.
people should not be forced to solo Q in order to play with there team. I see rank 10 premades losing to pugs in frees frequently, simply because they are so inexperienced.

I want a solo Q. Don’t get me wrong, i’m just ssaying it would require a bigger rethink and rework than most people seem to understand.

daydream.2938:

New teams/players dont have alot of tickets, and wont win even half there paids. They would run out of the few they have too quick.
people should not be forced to solo Q in order to play with there team. I see rank 10 premades losing to pugs in frees frequently, simply because they are so inexperienced.

I want a solo Q. Don’t get me wrong, i’m just ssaying it would require a bigger rethink and rework than most people seem to understand.

Oh certainly—my point was simply that free tourneys are not currently a good place for a new team to gain experience. So I don’t think we need to be too zealous to keep them as they are to protect 5-man, low-rank premades, because they don’t really benefit those teams.

Single match with matchmaking would be a nice intermediate step. That way we don’t have to divide the playerbase even further between hotjoin/solo/team, it would just work a little better for soloers or teams. We could eliminate tickets altogether or simply allow them to be gained solo or in a group. The idea is that QoL improvements could grow the playerbase, allowing for more reasonable solo/team splits in the future.

Solo queue is important because of the way tpvp is right now…

I come from the inner circle of 20 good people who ONLY play with each other…which unfortunately is all the top tpvpers right now.

If you are not within that inner circle, chances of you finding a “good” group to play with is little to none. It’s very sad honestly, but they are not to blame completely. When they play together, they will most likely win and/or play against a team that’s worth playing against. No one wants to play to lose…so it’s only natural that they group together.

There isn’t enough low-tier players to form their own parties and have fun…and when they do form a group, matchmaking gives up and throws top-premades together with low-tier premades because of the lack of groups queued…thus the low-tier group gets murdered and becomes discouraged. It’s really a never-ending cycle.

The tpvp scene is totally unbalanced in that sense…you’re either part of the 20 people who are good, whom play together…or you’re part of the 20 people who are of lower-teir and either have a crazy hard time finding a group or have no chance in tpvp because they get paired up against the good crew anyway.

Solo q’ing will give other people a chance to just play and have fun without worrying about running into a premade…also it would mean that those people would not have to spend 2hrs just to find a group because that’s just the state of the game nowadays…

Sad.