Guild Wars 2

Has to be condition necromancers. (actually its the only necromancer in spvp save maybe the mm which is the second most noob class in spvp)

Look at necro staff lol they’re all marks XD I mean just in case anything else was too difficult to use. I laugh every time.
Slow, relies on teammates to function.

Honestly I got to legendary as gs necro; and i gotta say. Would have been a million times easier as condi necro.

anet has made the noob class of spvp he necromancer.

Anyone else have an opinion on this?

Edit: just so you know. I can go all day explaining why condition necro is made for “noob” players. If you’d like, I can list them. Just let me know.

Honestly this feels like more of an elephant in the room more than anything else. Everyone already knows the necro is the noob class just nobody wants to either admit it or have the heart to just say it.

You didn’t really explain why they are “the noob class”. Can you elaborate?

Don’t go for the bait!

Do necros have low skill floor? Yes (it is the class i grab usually when we have to many thieves and i have to reroll, it requires 0 practice to play ok with it). Are they OP? Not really, they go down pretty fast under focus and w/o team support.

The real noob class is DHs atm. Instants, passives, overloaded spells etc. Just stand on point and spam crap off-cd – something will die unless you are facing ESL- level of players.

Yasha.5963:

You didn’t really explain why they are “the noob class”. Can you elaborate?

Absolutely im so glad you asked.

Condition Necromancers (well all necromancers) must rely on allies to function.
Condi necros only splash ambient conditions and try to cleanse conditions. Thats all they do.
Condition necromancers have nearly zero mobility which means even though everyone should worry about positioning, necromancers have to rely purely on their defensive stats. No active defenses like predicting shots to evade/block or out-thinking the enemy. They just plash conditions. Thats it.

condition necros always run staff. Staff is the simplest two-handed weapon in the game if not the simplest.

Condition necromancers damage is all ranged and passive. Again, there is no concern for positioning. You’re pretty much a snail farting constantly. If snail’s fart.

TheDevice.2751:

Yasha.5963:

You didn’t really explain why they are “the noob class”. Can you elaborate?

Absolutely im so glad you asked.

Condition Necromancers (well all necromancers) must rely on allies to function.
Condi necros only splash ambient conditions and try to cleanse conditions. Thats all they do.
Condition necromancers have nearly zero mobility which means even though everyone should worry about positioning, necromancers have to rely purely on their defensive stats. No active defenses like predicting shots to evade/block or out-thinking the enemy. They just plash conditions. Thats it.

condition necros always run staff. Staff is the simplest two-handed weapon in the game if not the simplest.

Condition necromancers damage is all ranged and passive. Again, there is no concern for positioning. You’re pretty much a snail farting constantly. If snail’s fart.

The lack of mobility means necros have to rely more on positioning, map knowledge, and situational awareness, which are separate skills that many players aren’t even aware of. It also requires better jumping-puzzle and juke skills to kite; many of the trick-jumps are things “newbies” don’t know about and average players can’t execute under pressure.

The low amount of defensive skills means that necros can’t afford to waste dodges on non-critical skills. Whereas some other classes can afford to waste dodges/blocks/etc. on autoattacks.

When it comes to offense, the difference between a good necro and a bad necro is huge. Necro is one of the few classes who run unblockable CC in this meta, which is something that needs to be timed right to get good effect (e.g. interrupting mesmer Shield4, or knocking rev out of Shield5/Staff3). Same deal with corrupting stab into fear.

It’s easy to denigrate any class as being a “newb class” by ignoring (or perhaps being unaware of) all the nuances that go into playing it at a high level.

If your point is just that necro can be effective in a matchup between bad players, then I agree that the skill floor is quite low (which is also true for most builds and is probably intentional because that makes the game more welcoming).

ResJudicator.7916:

The lack of mobility means necros have to rely more on positioning, map knowledge, and situational awareness, which are separate skills that many players aren’t even aware of. It also requires better jumping-puzzle and juke skills to kite; many of the trick-jumps are things “newbies” don’t know about and average players can’t execute under pressure.

Lifeforce and base stat scaling is to offset any need for positioning. This is designed this way. Necros have great health scaling and bonuses to armor through traits in several trait lines specifically to offset the requirement of making any sudden reaction to incoming attacks. Necromancers are supposed to face-tank. That is an actual design that can’t be argued.

The low amount of defensive skills means that necros can’t afford to waste dodges on non-critical skills. Whereas some other classes can afford to waste dodges/blocks/etc. on autoattacks.

When it comes to offense, the difference between a good necro and a bad necro is huge. Necro is one of the few classes who run unblockable CC in this meta, which is something that needs to be timed right to get good effect (e.g. interrupting mesmer Shield4, or knocking rev out of Shield5/Staff3). Same deal with corrupting stab into fear.

The idea that looking at a boon pop up and placing a very easy unblockable corrupt on them isn’t what i’d call pro level play. Thats necro 101.

It’s easy to denigrate any class as being a “newb class” by ignoring (or perhaps being unaware of) all the nuances that go into playing it at a high level.

I’m aware of these necromancer “nuances” and I don’t believe they are as high as skill cap as you praise them to be. It takes much more skill to play a revenant than a conditionmancer. The nuances of a revenant afford a skilled player who applies them much more reward and are more difficult.

These necro “nuances” are easily explained. They are essentially no more than what you’ve just explained yourself. There is no need for higher mastery of understanding the way conditions work or when to apply them. More skirmisher-type playstyles with high risk-high reward methods will always require more skill (or should). Necro is the exact definition of whatever is opposite of high risk/high reward.

Someone got killed by a condi necro.

do u know why all necro ran staff? because of lifeforce, the way you describe necro you sounded like your telling us how weak necros are… no block no invul, no dodge, no mobility. thats the reason they are the first target at every match they die easy. the fact is when a noob plays a necro wanting to learn he will soon realize he is the main target and will die all the time. that player will most likely be blame for dying and will never learn how to play class properly.

glass p/p theif. even chief keef can be good at this.

Hmmm, I thought MM was noobier than condimancer.

But there are builds from other classes that are far noobier than condi or MM necro. It actually takes some guts to play necro these days. But like the OP, I favored playing power GS necro over condi.

Funny that you complain all the time about Necromancers being weak and that Anet doesn’t play it, but then you also call it the “noob class.” If it’s so weak, then it obviously would require more skill to play against more powerful classes.

Oh I see. He’s trolling. He’s saying something nonsensical to start an argument.

But I’ll bite. The most noob class is, and always will be, Guardian. It’s the easiest to learn and the easiest to master. Well, ok, Condi Thief is way easier to master, but it also sucks at high level play. Guardians are at least the most noob friendly meta class.

Zintrothen.1056:

Funny that you complain all the time about Necromancers being weak and that Anet doesn’t play it, but then you also call it the “noob class.” If it’s so weak, then it obviously would require more skill to play against more powerful classes.

Oh I see. He’s trolling. He’s saying something nonsensical to start an argument.

Oh not at all. I absolutely believe that necro’s are the noob class for the most part. Especially condi’s and mm. The builds do most the work for you.

And I’ve never once said conditionmancers are weak. Not once. Actually, I urge you to find the comment in which i said conditionmancers are weak. I absolutely think there are problems with necromancer.

The fact is; the only viable playstyles for necromancer cater to low risk / low reward playstyles. Its a droning experience which I’ve pretty much washed my hands of.

Several other classes offer higher skill cap viable builds; not the necromancer. Not at all.

Everything I’m saying, i mean it 100%.

So Condi Necro is easier than DH trap build? I would love to learn your skill template and experiment with it in Ranked. Could you share?

TheDevice.2751:

Zintrothen.1056:

Funny that you complain all the time about Necromancers being weak and that Anet doesn’t play it, but then you also call it the “noob class.” If it’s so weak, then it obviously would require more skill to play against more powerful classes.

Oh I see. He’s trolling. He’s saying something nonsensical to start an argument.

Oh not at all. I absolutely believe that necro’s are the noob class for the most part. Especially condi’s and mm. The builds do most the work for you.

Based on your logic, all condi builds then are noob as the condis do the work for you.

Everytime I hear this, its due to some salty player who got pwn’d by condis. I have video proof of this (condi scrapper and condi druid here who records his matches) I see lots of salt, ranging from “ew, your condi so you are not a real build” and “You are running a condi build, that fight didn’t count”. Fact is, condi or not, noob or not, if a player finds a build they enjoy and are willing to learn/be good at, a build is a build so maybe git gud? Nothing more that can be said based on everything you complained about.

Frankly I think we should embrace noob friendly classes. I mean everyone has to start somewhere.

You can get a “feel” for a class running around pve, but that does zero to help prepare you for pvp. So why should we get all bent out of shape if/when someone chooses to take a slighty easier build and work their way up.

smh – i am so kitten over all these threads whingy about this class or tht

I think necromancer is one of the classes atm that requires the most skill to be effective at higher level PvP. You have to solve situations without good defensive skills/mobility skills and are very vulnerable to burst damage and cc. No good health regen. While also having long cast heal + long cast elite stability. Most of other meta classes can just run in zerg like headless chickens without thinking and run away if kitten happens regen fast then come back, so they are all the noob classes in reality.

to OP you got legendary as gs necro. That means nothing. League farming, duo q, premades. Doesn’t really matter what spec you use as necro in that league. If your teammates better than enemy you win with both if they are worse and they die in seconds than you lose with both.

You made this post because your gs necro got killed by condi necro?

Rolisteel.1375:

I think necromancer is one of the classes atm that requires the most skill to be effective at higher level PvP. You have to solve situations without good defensive skills/mobility skills and are very vulnerable to burst damage and cc. No good health regen. While also having long cast heal + long cast elite stability. Most of other meta classes can just run in zerg like headless chickens without thinking and run away if kitten happens regen fast then come back, so they are all the noob classes in reality.

to OP you got legendary as gs necro. That means nothing. League farming, duo q, premades. Doesn’t really matter what spec you use as necro in that league. If your teammates better than enemy you win with both if they are worse and they die in seconds than you lose with both.

You made this post because your gs necro got killed by condi necro?

I’d like to see you go from amber to legendary on GS necro. I’d actually love to see that.

And, no, it doesn’t matter what class, what spec, or who beat what. The truth is that the way necromancers are designed (the examples I’ve given) shows to me that the class is made as a low risk / low reward class. Its easier and safer to use. The devs designed the profession this way lol.

TheDevice.2751:

Rolisteel.1375:

I think necromancer is one of the classes atm that requires the most skill to be effective at higher level PvP. You have to solve situations without good defensive skills/mobility skills and are very vulnerable to burst damage and cc. No good health regen. While also having long cast heal + long cast elite stability. Most of other meta classes can just run in zerg like headless chickens without thinking and run away if kitten happens regen fast then come back, so they are all the noob classes in reality.

to OP you got legendary as gs necro. That means nothing. League farming, duo q, premades. Doesn’t really matter what spec you use as necro in that league. If your teammates better than enemy you win with both if they are worse and they die in seconds than you lose with both.

You made this post because your gs necro got killed by condi necro?

I’d like to see you go from amber to legendary on GS necro. I’d actually love to see that.

And, no, it doesn’t matter what class, what spec, or who beat what. The truth is that the way necromancers are designed (the examples I’ve given) shows to me that the class is made as a low risk / low reward class. Its easier and safer to use. The devs designed the profession this way lol.

Necro has a high level skill floor. Probably about 4 or 5 viable builds, and yes it does have it’s low risk / high reward builds but it also has lots of high risk better rewards build.

I’m not pro, but I run a Viper D/D and Staff Necro and all my staff is good for is Life Force stacking and a poison field when enemies try to rez. Maybe fear if an ally is getting stomped.

If there was any “noob” class, to me it would be Druid… Doesn’t matter what silly traits or build I put together, my pet will always win the fight.

Necros might be mechanically less demanding than some other classes, but they require more “thinking” to be good, due to less escapes/“oh kitten” buttons/passive procs than most other common classes. And while it is true, that necro is kinda designed for “facetanking”, it doesn’t really work in the current dmg/burst heavy meta. Only bad necros will facetank, good ones will try to avoid dmg, if possible with the given limitations of the class.

Btw, most meta builds are very forgiving and “noob-friendly”. Necro is by far not the worst offender.

You had me until you said necros don’t need to worry about positioning

Solstace.2514:

You had me until you said necros don’t need to worry about positioning

well the idea is that every player has to worry about positioning. Anyone would agree that necros have a lot of built-in toughness and durability and not a lot of mobility. Thats because they’re meant to be hit and not avoid as much damage as everyone else.

TheDevice.2751:

Rolisteel.1375:

I think necromancer is one of the classes atm that requires the most skill to be effective at higher level PvP. You have to solve situations without good defensive skills/mobility skills and are very vulnerable to burst damage and cc. No good health regen. While also having long cast heal + long cast elite stability. Most of other meta classes can just run in zerg like headless chickens without thinking and run away if kitten happens regen fast then come back, so they are all the noob classes in reality.

to OP you got legendary as gs necro. That means nothing. League farming, duo q, premades. Doesn’t really matter what spec you use as necro in that league. If your teammates better than enemy you win with both if they are worse and they die in seconds than you lose with both.

You made this post because your gs necro got killed by condi necro?

I’d like to see you go from amber to legendary on GS necro. I’d actually love to see that.

And, no, it doesn’t matter what class, what spec, or who beat what. The truth is that the way necromancers are designed (the examples I’ve given) shows to me that the class is made as a low risk / low reward class. Its easier and safer to use. The devs designed the profession this way lol.

I started to play ranked about a week ago, im playing gs necro, and currently im ruby t3, but dont care about it, i started too late. Also sometimes change build for a match to not get bored of 1 spec. But i don’t have time for everything. Btw watch some Hollts videos i kinda play like him same playstyle ( but he is probably a bit more tricky). He can show you probably Legendary gs if he started at right time or had time to play.

Thief

This guy is still going at it :‘D
I thought there’d be a restriction on how many times a person can write the exact same blabbering on the the forums. But if there was, I am sure Device would have hit it a long time ago.

I do notice a lot of noobs seem to play necro, but when you encounter someone who knows how to play its pretty much gg.

TheDevice.2751:

Solstace.2514:

You had me until you said necros don’t need to worry about positioning

well the idea is that every player has to worry about positioning. Anyone would agree that necros have a lot of built-in toughness and durability and not a lot of mobility. Thats because they’re meant to be hit and not avoid as much damage as everyone else.

Lol. Now, I know your trolling. Pre-HoT that may have worked, but with the power creep the extra health is burned down extremely fast. Poor mobility and poor damage mitigation aren’t a good combo for the current meta. Now, some necros bring flesh wurm to help, but there are several classes that can port right to you, so it doesnt always work.

Zero.6592:

This guy is still going at it :‘D
I thought there’d be a restriction on how many times a person can write the exact same blabbering on the the forums. But if there was, I am sure Device would have hit it a long time ago.

Maybe you misunderstand what I’m saying. I play necromancer btw. This isn’t some attack on people who play necromancers.

I don’t care that the class has a lower skill floor and lower skill ceiling than some others (say revenant, engi, mesmer, etc). I play the class myself and don’t really care too much for playing the “high-skill cap” professions. I’m actually not very good at using a class with an over-aboundance of flashy mechanics or at least I’m not as comfortable on them.

Necromancer has some range and my comfort zone is probably around using more risky / unorthadox builds. I haven’t really found much pleasure in splashing conditions as much as I used to.

The point of this thread is that there are indeed professions that are easier to play. Furthermore, some specs are surely easier to operate than others. I’m going to out on a limb and bet that the devs would agree.

TheDevice.2751:

the class has a lower skill floor and lower skill ceiling

The problem is this statement, used over and over, without any logical sense put to it. The reality is, most players seems to use it interchangeably for pacing. Just because a profession has more things to push, it doesn’t mean that pushing buttons faster is skillful. The opposite is true for the limited and slower paced professions. Simply, pacing doesn’t equal skill.

Engineer and guardian are both pretty kitten easy to ladder with. Longbow druid is easilly the most scrubby build in the game.

I’m not sure why people say warrior is easier than other classes. Try to ladder using a condi mace warrior and then do a guardian/engineer and tell me which is easier. If you want to play engineer and not die in a game you can go the entire game without dying once.

Overall its more about the weapon setup for each class that determines the skill cap/ceiling. Here’s an experiment, try playing each class and build drunk first then retry is sober or vice versa.

cyberzombie.7348:

Overall its more about the weapon setup for each class that determines the skill cap/ceiling. Here’s an experiment, try playing each class and build drunk first then retry is sober or vice versa.

Is this game enjoyable sober?

Yeah but I find it humorous if I rekt in spvp drunk. Except for mesmers they confuse me when drunk.