Guild Wars 2

The problem with GW2 balance, is that by nerfing certain meta elements of a class, the developers by side effect, could completely destroy builds that are already weak and make them weaker.

Example:

Ranger Spirits-
Well this was nerfed. But now they are pretty weak, and hard to get into a build for SPvP.
Now people that play Spirit Build are at a disadvantage because of some other meta build.

Lets say, Ranger’s longbow gets nerfed, how many other specs will also be totally destroyed by that?

Lets look at Engineer. People want Turrets nerfed. But what about other builds that may use Turrets but not as specced into them? They would be destroyed.

On top of this, there are countless weapons and skills that are pretty much useless in SPvP, which limit our builds even more.

I dont want to play Meta builds. But how effective can I be with a niche build in SPvP.

with the small scale of the PvP battles in SPvP, its impossible to balance out all 9 classes for each other. But currently all balancing in the game is made off of the SPvP model, which has been proven in this genre not to be an effective point of reference for balance.

So what can be done? what plans do you at Anet have for improving the quality of SPvP?

Nerfs are generally specifically targeted, you’re a bit mistaken. If longbow rangers get nerfed, that will affect just them, same with turret engis. The question is not “if X gets nerfed, what else gets weaker”, it’s “if X gets nerfed, then what becomes more powerful?”

The nature of PvP (and PvE for that matter) means min/maxxing your build to be most effective. Certain classes and weapons are going to excel at certain things, which is why if you want to be competitive, you run a meta build. This phenomenon is not exclusive to GW2, you can see it everywhere from WoW raids to LoL tournaments.

“I dont want to play Meta builds. But how effective can I be with a niche build in SPvP.”

There are plenty of effective builds that aren’t considered meta. How effective are YOU at playing those builds? Are you an asset to your team? Are you getting rolled by the meta builds? If so, then why aren’t you fighting meta with meta? At what point does one stop trying to be a special snowflake and try their best to contribute to the team?

“with the small scale of the PvP battles in SPvP, its impossible to balance out all 9 classes for each other. But currently all balancing in the game is made off of the SPvP model, which has been proven in this genre not to be an effective point of reference for balance.”

No one is trying to balance all 9 (8) classes for each other, PvP is team oriented. Class inequalities will always exist within any game, it’s what makes them unique. And how exactly has sPvP PROVEN not to be an effective balancing point?

A power creep leads to a more detailed game with more stats more skills and more flashy combat. Anet should be buffing more than they are nerfing.

Zelulose.8695:

A power creep leads to a more detailed game with more stats more skills and more flashy combat. Anet should be buffing more than they are nerfing.

No. Power creep leads to shallow games which get to a point where everyone can do everything and people die in seconds.

Exedore.6320:

Zelulose.8695:

A power creep leads to a more detailed game with more stats more skills and more flashy combat. Anet should be buffing more than they are nerfing.

No. Power creep leads to shallow games which get to a point where everyone can do everything and people die in seconds.

Not if there is a creeping toughness effectiveness.

JohnnyZero.5619:

Nerfs are generally specifically targeted, you’re a bit mistaken. If longbow rangers get nerfed, that will affect just them, same with turret engis. The question is not “if X gets nerfed, what else gets weaker”, it’s “if X gets nerfed, then what becomes more powerful?”

The nature of PvP (and PvE for that matter) means min/maxxing your build to be most effective. Certain classes and weapons are going to excel at certain things, which is why if you want to be competitive, you run a meta build. This phenomenon is not exclusive to GW2, you can see it everywhere from WoW raids to LoL tournaments.

“I dont want to play Meta builds. But how effective can I be with a niche build in SPvP.”

There are plenty of effective builds that aren’t considered meta. How effective are YOU at playing those builds? Are you an asset to your team? Are you getting rolled by the meta builds? If so, then why aren’t you fighting meta with meta? At what point does one stop trying to be a special snowflake and try their best to contribute to the team?

“with the small scale of the PvP battles in SPvP, its impossible to balance out all 9 classes for each other. But currently all balancing in the game is made off of the SPvP model, which has been proven in this genre not to be an effective point of reference for balance.”

No one is trying to balance all 9 (8) classes for each other, PvP is team oriented. Class inequalities will always exist within any game, it’s what makes them unique. And how exactly has sPvP PROVEN not to be an effective balancing point?

and this one is also

JohnnyZero.5619:

Nerfs are generally specifically targeted, you’re a bit mistaken. If longbow rangers get nerfed, that will affect just them, same with turret engis.

That is simply not true, for example I used to play certain engy builds that were lets say a bit ‘borderline’, simply because I enjoyed them, however in their efforts to nerf condi engy they did things like move incendiary powder to master, which weakened my ‘borderline’ build to the point it was no longer even ‘borderline’.

zinkz.7045:

JohnnyZero.5619:

Nerfs are generally specifically targeted, you’re a bit mistaken. If longbow rangers get nerfed, that will affect just them, same with turret engis.

That is simply not true, for example I used to play certain engy builds that were lets say a bit ‘borderline’, simply because I enjoyed them, however in their efforts to nerf condi engy they did things like move incendiary powder to master, which weakened my ‘borderline’ build to the point it was no longer even ‘borderline’.

You can’t expect every little build combination that you like to put together to be saved even when there is an overpowered build out there. Anet decides to sacrifice your snowflake build so the thousands of other people using the condi meta build are not as dominant.
Your entire discussion point is that there should be lots and lots of build variety. While that would be nice— people create the current Meta because it works and it works well. If it starts to work too well, it should definitely be knocked down a notch, even at the price of you not having your unique build that you like.

zinkz.7045:

That is simply not true, for example I used to play certain engy builds that were lets say a bit ‘borderline’, simply because I enjoyed them, however in their efforts to nerf condi engy they did things like move incendiary powder to master, which weakened my ‘borderline’ build to the point it was no longer even ‘borderline’.

Incendiary Powder is ridiculously overpowered. It’s way too good at any trait level. If your build wasn’t good without it, you should probably refine your build more.

Exodus.6501:

zinkz.7045:

JohnnyZero.5619:

Nerfs are generally specifically targeted, you’re a bit mistaken. If longbow rangers get nerfed, that will affect just them, same with turret engis.

That is simply not true, for example I used to play certain engy builds that were lets say a bit ‘borderline’, simply because I enjoyed them, however in their efforts to nerf condi engy they did things like move incendiary powder to master, which weakened my ‘borderline’ build to the point it was no longer even ‘borderline’.

You can’t expect every little build combination that you like to put together to be saved even when there is an overpowered build out there. Anet decides to sacrifice your snowflake build so the thousands of other people using the condi meta build are not as dominant.
Your entire discussion point is that there should be lots and lots of build variety. While that would be nice— people create the current Meta because it works and it works well. If it starts to work too well, it should definitely be knocked down a notch, even at the price of you not having your unique build that you like.

Firstly it isn’t my “discussion point”, I’m not the OP, secondly I don’t expect them to take any notice of non-meta builds, I was simply pointing out the person I quoted was incorrect when he claimed nerfs just effect those builds they are targeted at.

Exedore.6320:

zinkz.7045:

That is simply not true, for example I used to play certain engy builds that were lets say a bit ‘borderline’, simply because I enjoyed them, however in their efforts to nerf condi engy they did things like move incendiary powder to master, which weakened my ‘borderline’ build to the point it was no longer even ‘borderline’.

Incendiary Powder is ridiculously overpowered. It’s way too good at any trait level. If your build wasn’t good without it, you should probably refine your build more.

Which is of no relevance to that point I was making and beyond that makes no sense, it was precisely because how much many engy builds rely on incendiary powder that borderline builds got nerfed out of even being borderline, because there was no option but to go 20 into the the first line to get incendiary powder.

The problem of gw2 balance is that some class excel (read outperforms) other class in two many domains with no huge drawbacks.