Guild Wars 2

This is something that bothered me since beta tbh. Why did they ever introduce 8v8 instead of keeping conquest 5v5 only?

Tbh i only see downsides.

- new players who try to learn their class struggle. They either get zerged or zerg someone else. In both cases its unclear if their play made the difference. And in both cases they learn close to nothing from it.
- Veterans get annoyed since despite playing good they might end up losing due to being vastly outnumbered.
- 8v8 promotes a very blob like playstyle where properly defending and pushing points is discouraged. Just autoattack and stay in the group of 5+.

Can someone fill me in on any pros?

I understand that you can pick 5v5 servers or go tpvp. But esp for guys that try GW2 for the first time this will be a problem. Their first impression of pvp in this game will be 8v8 conquest (really depressing if you think about it).

It’s a zergy playmode.
Many people like just hacking and slashing through people.
8v8 gives much more constant conflict.

Yes it is a different playstyle.
Worse is an opinion.

Uhm, being with more teammates is better when learning a class than with less.
You learn a different playstyle, sure, but you also learn your class more easily.
In small fights the focus is entirely on you, in larger there is much more leeway to miss a skill or even get downed… because you have 3~ allies nearby.

If people get kitten ed because they go into a fight that and ignore more enemies on the way…
L2P??

garethh.3518:

Uhm, being with more teammates is better when learning a class than with less.
You learn a different playstyle, sure, but you also learn your class more easily.
In small fights the focus is entirely on you, in larger there is much more leeway to miss a skill or even get downed… because you have 3~ allies nearby.

Thats the entire point. You can do “well” in 8v8 by just using autoattack. No need to play your class well in zergy playmodes. So its probably better to practice your pvpgame by fighting random PvE mobs over fighting in zergs.

We started playing GW2 pvp with about 30ish of my old pvp guild from wow. All of them hardcore pvpers and pvp veterans who pvped hardcore in multiple MMOs. And pretty much all of them quit since their first impression off GW2 pvp was “a clusterkitten”.

There are a few reasons why GW2 pvp flopped. This is one of them imo.

Locuz.2651:

Thats the entire point. You can do “well” in 8v8 by just using autoattack. No need to play your class well in zergy playmodes. So its probably better to practice your pvpgame by fighting random PvE mobs over fighting in zergs.

Sure you can win an 8v8 by just auto-attacking, but you are probably being a relative burdon (unless your playing a super meta spec, in which case, welcome to the world of MMOs)

But you can win, there’s no need to do more than auto attack to win a few, but there is also no need to play the game…
But people do… because they find it fun…

Yeah you are probably better off doing other things to practice if you want to play conquest competitively…
ALLOT of people don’t.
They just want to play what’s fun.
(it is a game)

Locuz.2651:

much all of them quit since their first impression off GW2 pvp was “a clusterkitten”.

That’s GW2’s issue, entirely irrelevant from 8v8s.
Many games manage full on 8v8s with some semblance of order, you can for the most part see what’s happening. In GW2, 3v3s are hell to watch.

Everyone has an opinion, they are called opinions because they aren’t facts.

garethh.3518:

But people do… because they find it fun….

You mightve missed it but pvp in this game flopped a bit. Especially if you compare the numbers of people playing it to the total population.

This is partially since the “entrance games” are not that enjoyable. due to the zerginess in 8v8. So less people will play it and quite a few will even quit this game due to it.

Literally every single person i spoke to who never spvps gives this as their main reason. So ye its their opnion but if i keep hearing that same reason over and over again…

So my suggestion is to make 5v5 the standard filter option..

Locuz.2651:

garethh.3518:

But people do… because they find it fun….

You mightve missed it but pvp in this game flopped a bit. Especially if you compare the numbers of people playing it to the total population.

Sigh…
So many extremes.

Anyways, lets take a step back…
You wanted to know the merits of 8v8.
I explained them.

It’s not like 8v8 can’t work in GW2, just the devs aren’t willing to take a single step to make it work. Overall it’s a fine concept, actually a good one, many casuals love to just constantly fight people and larger group v group engagements tend to be more enjoyable than not.
BUT the devs never gave the game any help in fitting into an 8v8 mode…
That slaughtered the game.

garethh.3518:

…

What backs up what you say as a fact? It seems like an opinion to me as-well, what I believe matters are not these ’’facts’’ but the amount of players sharing similar opinions to the OP of this thread.

The 8v8 Hotjoin is the reason my guild members don’t even touch guild wars 2 PvP with a 10 foot pole. From my experience 8v8 supports 8v5, 4v3, 4v4…(etc.) to happen often in small fights, this is horrible considering it contradicts most reasons players SPvP instead of WvW.

In legit tPvP matches (In which this game was BALANCED TO BE PLAYED) 2v2 and 3v3 happens often and are more interesting because of the players spread-ed across the map.

Even with the glory changes, hotjoin still promotes bad habbits that should not be part of the behavior one has if he wishes to win.

The whole Hot Join system is a mess. Part of the problem is the existence of 8v8. but there is more to it than that.

The system encourages the seeking of lopsided matches and piling on, because you receive greater rewards for steamrolling.

It (Hot Join) needs to be deleted in favor of a more balanced learning and testing environment with lesser rewards compared to competitive play instead of being the go to mode for PvP rewards. 8v8 in and of itself isn’t a problem, but playing 8v8 on maps designed and balanced for 5v5 is just plain ridiculous.

Phantom Master.9582:

What backs up what you say as a fact?

Sigh…
Nothing.
The point, if you actually are interested in knowing instead of fighting, was that the guy was so set on the idea that ‘hotjoin is bad’ that he didn’t seem to care to listen to anything that wasn’t also bashing it.

A reminder that opinions are just opinions seemed like it could help bring him out of it.

Phantom Master.9582:

The 8v8 Hotjoin is the reason my guild members don’t even touch guild wars 2 PvP with a 10 foot pole.

And there you go too…

The man asked if there are merits to 8v8, I explained them.
So because I explained them I am suddenly a hotjoin enthusiast??!?
:P

??!?!
Hotjoin was a massive failure.
8v8 couldn’t work without allot of support from Anet.
Anet gave no support.
The mode failed.

There were reasons to choose 8v8 for SPvP.
Having a few valid reasons doesn’t mean it will work.
Explaining those reasons doesn’t mean I think hotjoin worked.

garethh.3518:

8v8 couldn’t work without allot of support from Anet.
Anet gave no support.
The mode failed.

There were reasons to choose 8v8 for SPvP.
Having a few valid reasons doesn’t mean it will succeed.
Explaining those reasons doesn’t mean I think hotjoin succeeded.

What does that even mean “gave no support”? Youre incredibly vague. Do you mean lack of development (new modes etc)?

Due to the lack of a holy trinity in this game larger scale fights become a clusterkitten, unless you run with an organized group (but this is never the case in hotjoins).

While this klusterkitten might seem enjoyable for some guys that see spvp in the same light as crabtoss (a minigame/achievement farming area). For pvpplayers who actually like to pvp this is literally a nightmare.

Dont get me wrong im not saying it is the only reason why GW2 pvp failed to deliver so far. Im just saying it might be an idea to change the standard hotjoin format in to 5v5. So that people who join pvp for the first time get thrown in to 5v5 first.

Larger scale fights become cluster kitten because of AoE cap, because of too small capture points (should be like 10x bigger so there is some room to move) and because classes have way way too much aoe. Classes should have only couple strong aoe skills so they actually would need to think when use those and players would know that if you stack in same place your team will pay for it.

I will spawn-gank fest 24/7 anyone that speak badly about 8v8 !

If you want <<Play now>> to have a slight que + MMR + reward + only 5v5 = fine by me !

Since 5v5 was introduced, I never played 8v8 again in hotjoins.
The memory of such games is painful.

Locuz.2651:

What does that even mean “gave no support”? Youre incredibly vague. Do you mean lack of development (new modes etc)?

Locuz.2651:

Due to the lack of a holy trinity in this game larger scale fights become a clusterkitten, unless you run with an organized group (but this is never the case in hotjoins).

Locuz.2651:

While this klusterkitten might seem enjoyable for some guys that see spvp in the same light as crabtoss (a minigame/achievement farming area). For pvpplayers who actually like to pvp this is literally a nightmare.

Sure
GW2 hasn’t tried to make 8v8s work, like at all, and it needed allot of work to actually make them worth playing.

Locuz.2651:

Dont get me wrong im not saying it is the only reason why GW2 pvp failed to deliver so far. Im just saying it might be an idea to change the standard hotjoin format in to 5v5. So that people who join pvp for the first time get thrown in to 5v5 first.

That’s the easiest fix.

I hate 8v8. I just wish there’s a Play Now option that sends you to 5v5 custom arenas only. Or am I missing something??

hot join 8 vs 8 is working as intended.
nothing is broken.
all is working fine.
some people just need to run around and chop up people.

the pros:
- people who love 8 vs 8 are having fun playing in them.

having 2 buttons for “Play Now” would not hut though.

i.e.

Play Now (5 vs 5 )
Play Now (8 vs 8 )

garethh.3518:

Uhm, being with more teammates is better when learning a class than with less.

I disagree wholeheartedly with this statement. Most of the time, a player is ether getting carried in an 8v8, or they don’t know what’s going on. So most of the time it just becomes a spam-autoattack fest on the nearest downed opponent or blowing the cooldowns of all skills on said downed opponent.

It is far more beneficial to strip away all the noise and focus on what a character can do/bring in a fight. It is a lot easier to tweak builds when a person knows exactly how much of an impact a certain aspect of it does. Nobody can get this in 8v8, at least to the same/better level of 5v5.

It’s part of the reason why good players have some dueling experience. They don’t do it because they think it’s the highest level of play – it’s not. All you have to do in a duel to win it, is to counter build. Good players, instead, want to figure out ways to deal with certain other classes without having to tamper with their team build. They strip away the noise and start from the fundamentals. In other words, and this is important, they try to -learn- the game.

garethh.3518:

You learn a different playstyle, sure, but you also learn your class more easily.

Again I disagree. Mostly for the same reasons stated above. People get ridiculously carried in 8v8 and they become nothing more than another number in a fight. It’s the nature of zerg playstyle and similar to a town militia as well. Do you have any gun and can you press the trigger? Great! Play some 8v8.

garethh.3518:

…

I’m quite sorry if my post sounded a bit offensive, the thing is, whenever I go to read forums I’m ~80% of the time drunk as kitten. And have trouble dealing with people whom I think are praising something that I believe is a plague for this game. I’m grateful for your rage-less and rational answer.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

fun playing in them.

having 2 buttons for “Play Now” would not hut though.

i.e.

Play Now (5 vs 5 )
Play Now (8 vs 8 )

I would loooooove to have this. And since 8v8 arenas are always on top of the list, it’s always those rooms that get filled fast and in a higher priority whereas 5v5 almost always never end up as 5v5 but rather 3v4 or less :/

The current maps are simply to small for 8v8, 3 points leave bugger all room to split your team.

That being said another mode, with larger maps suited for 8-man teams would be a great change of pace.

Justin ODell.9517:

Actually, half our hot joins are setup to be 5v5, but due to a bug discovered today the 8v8 matches are being preferred incorrectly.

We’re talking about this internally, and we may be able to get this changed as soon as the 26th.

Justin you work too hard lol. You are always on here at odd times :P

Justin ODell.9517:

Actually, half our hot joins are setup to be 5v5, but due to a bug discovered today the 8v8 matches are being preferred incorrectly.

We’re talking about this internally, and we may be able to get this changed as soon as the 26th.

This is heaven sent. Thank you!

@Chicago Jack.5647
I disagree wholeheartedly with this statement. Most of the time, a player is ether getting carried in an 8v8…

An option to be carried is (imo) a good thing when you are learning the basics of a game.
People learn differently and want to play different gamestyles.

…So most of the time it just becomes a spam-autoattack fest on the nearest downed opponent or blowing the cooldowns of all skills on said downed opponent….

Ok, sounds like an issue with the chaos of it all, but short of that, live and learn?

…It is far more beneficial to strip away all the noise and focus on what a character can do/bring in a fight….

You aren’t maximizing builds, you’re learning fundamentals. 8v8s are never the ideal place to work the kinks out of builds and get a good hand for the finesse of it all , but I never really said that it was, did I?

Less noise is good.
Chaos is the main draw back of 8v8 and what takes any perc GW2 could have gotten from them and turned it on its head (most other games manage larger fights much better).
That’s not entirely an issue with these conquest 8v8s, but also with overloaded devs or bad company structure, exc. not getting around to fixing the mess.

Justin ODell.9517:

Actually, half our hot joins are setup to be 5v5, but due to a bug discovered today the 8v8 matches are being preferred incorrectly.

We’re talking about this internally, and we may be able to get this changed as soon as the 26th.

If only passion could be straight up turned into code, then this game would be updated twice daily and be esports yesterday.
If only…

Phantom Master.9582:

I’m grateful for your rage-less and rational answer.

NPs

Justin ODell.9517:

Actually, half our hot joins are setup to be 5v5, but due to a bug discovered today the 8v8 matches are being preferred incorrectly.

We’re talking about this internally, and we may be able to get this changed as soon as the 26th.

having 5 vs 5 more preferred is fine.

please do not remove 8 vs 8 anet’s custom hotjoin rooms.
thanks!

garethh.3518:

Being carried is (imo) a good thing when you are learning the basics of a game.

And in my opinion, failure is the best learning experience. People will fail a lot less often when they are being carried. They might form an illusion that they are ready for some responsibility in an actual team fight.

garethh.3518:

Ok, live and learn?

That’s fine, but most people in 8v8 don’t do the second part. It’s not their fault though, and I’m dead serious about this, they don’t need to.

garethh.3518:

[…] you’re learning fundamentals.

But this is my point. They can’t -learn- the fundamentals because of so many crutches they have and the amount of chaos that ensues. Step into any 8v8 hotjoin, and just look at the rotations they do – it’s god awful. This has nothing to do with build maximization.

^ some people do not want to learn, they just want to stay in 8 vs 8 and have some simple fun.

do you get it?

stop blaming 8 vs 8 for not getting ideal team mates in your solo arena adventures.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

I hate 8v8. I just wish there’s a Play Now option that sends you to 5v5 custom arenas only. Or am I missing something??

Add those arena’s to your favourite list. You then access them again easily.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Gallrvaghn.4921:

I hate 8v8. I just wish there’s a Play Now option that sends you to 5v5 custom arenas only. Or am I missing something??

Add those arena’s to your favourite list. You then access them again easily.

I admit I don’t use those features much. XD

I just want to have an option wherein if I press the Play Now button, I get to join 5v5 maps only.

Let me get this straight?
You’re trying to say that entering soloq/tpvp and waiting between 5-40minute’s, regularly getting 4 vs 5 or 5 vs 0, sometimes going against all under rank 10 to then going against all over rank 50, where your winning team can’t continue, where you get little rewards that benefit any other part of the game is less messy than instantly entering 8 vs 8 where you still earn glory/rank and can quickly achieve a daily laurel?

That’s some crazy thinking.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Let me get this straight?
You’re trying to say that entering soloq/tpvp and waiting between 5-40minute’s, regularly getting 4 vs 5 or 5 vs 0, sometimes going against all under rank 10 to then going against all over rank 50, where your winning team can’t continue, where you get little rewards that benefit any other part of the game is less messy than instantly entering 8 vs 8 where you still earn glory/rank and can quickly achieve a daily laurel?

That’s some crazy thinking.

Hotjoins have issues too you know. Not just SoloQ/TPvP Arenas. XD

Seriously, give Justin a raise for his awesome comunication and work

I plaid some hot join yesterday after a long time since i am waiting for those ToT bags to go away. I am not sure 8vs8 really has any pros.

- Gameplay is still bad even with recent changes.
- There is so much AOE spam that 8vs8 just makes it worse
- Most people run arround in glass builds or OP builds which make dps huge.
- Marauders jumping arround who barely know how to 360 degree turn their character.
I am not sure if this is due to Glory farm or simply hot join being WvW zerg gameplay.
- When these players finaly decide to do sPvP they use zerg tactics where they just run arround all 5 killing what they find or chase it until end of game.

I do not think new players benefit from 8vs8 making it easier for them to learn pvp. I would even say it is harder. Instead of learning how some decent player teleport stomped you, thief used pistol to apply blind or how you should rezz your temmates. Every downed player is just AOE spammed from enermys and allies. And then you have 3 downed players on each side on a point and it just matters which one dies first.

Mladi Bojevnik.2517:

I plaid some hot join yesterday after a long time since i am waiting for those ToT bags to go away. I am not sure 8vs8 really has any pros.

- Gameplay is still bad even with recent changes.
- There is so much AOE spam that 8vs8 just makes it worse
- Most people run arround in glass builds or OP builds which make dps huge.
- Marauders jumping arround who barely know how to 360 degree turn their character.
I am not sure if this is due to Glory farm or simply hot join being WvW zerg gameplay.
- When these players finaly decide to do sPvP they use zerg tactics where they just run arround all 5 killing what they find or chase it until end of game.

I do not think new players benefit from 8vs8 making it easier for them to learn pvp. I would even say it is harder. Instead of learning how some decent player teleport stomped you, thief used pistol to apply blind or how you should rezz your temmates. Every downed player is just AOE spammed from enermys and allies. And then you have 3 downed players on each side on a point and it just matters which one dies first.

some people enjoy these. let them.

and please stop blaming 8 vs 8 hot join servers for your bad experiences in solo arena.

Justin ODell.9517:

Actually, half our hot joins are setup to be 5v5, but due to a bug discovered today the 8v8 matches are being preferred incorrectly.

We’re talking about this internally, and we may be able to get this changed as soon as the 26th.

Fix it the right way Justin.

Delete 8v8. Problem solved. Since you have to delete Hot join when the new modes are released anyway it can’t hurt to get an early start.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Justin ODell.9517:

Actually, half our hot joins are setup to be 5v5, but due to a bug discovered today the 8v8 matches are being preferred incorrectly.

We’re talking about this internally, and we may be able to get this changed as soon as the 26th.

Fix it the right way Justin.

Delete 8v8. Problem solved. Since you have to delete Hot join when the new modes are released anyway it can’t hurt to get an early start.

Why would they delete hotjoins? So that people will go for SoloQ/Team arenas? I’d rather have more options rather than none at all. However, what they need to do is make tPVP arenas less broken, more attractive and much more approachable than hotjoins if they want people to start queueing for them. Reduction or removal of rank/glory gain on hotjoins is a good start, IMO.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Mladi Bojevnik.2517:

I plaid some hot join yesterday after a long time since i am waiting for those ToT bags to go away. I am not sure 8vs8 really has any pros.

- Gameplay is still bad even with recent changes.
- There is so much AOE spam that 8vs8 just makes it worse
- Most people run arround in glass builds or OP builds which make dps huge.
- Marauders jumping arround who barely know how to 360 degree turn their character.
I am not sure if this is due to Glory farm or simply hot join being WvW zerg gameplay.
- When these players finaly decide to do sPvP they use zerg tactics where they just run arround all 5 killing what they find or chase it until end of game.

I do not think new players benefit from 8vs8 making it easier for them to learn pvp. I would even say it is harder. Instead of learning how some decent player teleport stomped you, thief used pistol to apply blind or how you should rezz your temmates. Every downed player is just AOE spammed from enermys and allies. And then you have 3 downed players on each side on a point and it just matters which one dies first.

some people enjoy these. let them.

and please stop blaming 8 vs 8 hot join servers for your bad experiences in solo arena.

Nowhere in my post was I blaming anyone for “bad” solo arena experience. Zerging strategy is not bad in sPvP and can win games if your team does not know how to play against it. The question was if someone can give any pros to why 8vs8 arenas are good and you gave nothing execpt some people enjoy them. They can also add 16vs16 and 32 vs 32 arenas and someone will enjoy them but you said nothing on why 8vs8 is the best maybe 6vs6 or 10vs10would be better.

@Chicago Jack.5647
You seem to be dead set on nitpicking for conflict.
Yes there are cons in GW2 8v8s that, for most people, largely outweigh the pros… but that doesn’t mean those pros don’t exist.

And in my opinion, failure is the best learning experience. People will fail a lot less often when they are being carried.

Different ways to learn.
More ways the more people your game appeals to.
Dueling, 5v5s, and 8v8s give different playstyles.
Differing playstyles makes a different gamemode.
Pro.

They can’t -learn- the fundamentals because of so many crutches they have and the amount of chaos that ensues….

Read my last paragraph last post.
Yes the chaos slaughters allot of things 8v8s could have given GW2.
CON

The crutches… their a staple of MMOs, their called teammates. MMOs are social games.
Look at any trinity MMO, saying ‘having tons of crutches stops you from learning’ is like saying ‘you cant get good at an MMO until you play without healers and tanks’.
Makes no sense.
Teammates make a game more social.
Teammates don’t tend to largely stop you from learning your part.
Chaos and complexity will (and do in GW2)… but teammates… ehh.
Pro.

Don’t get me wrong, people won’t learn how to play TPvP after playing 8v8s (cap/uncap BOs, not zerg, exc.) but that’s fine. A detriment, but that’s what comes with different play-modes.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

This is one discussion we’ve had multiple times internally as of late. It’s tricky because 5v5 is much more plagued with autobalance issues than 8v8. We agree that 8v8 doesn’t teach players the type of PvP we wish to pass along to our youngsters but there are still surely players who enjoy it. I personally would like to see 8v8 removed but we might need to visit how hitting play now prioritizes matches that haven’t started.

If someone wants 8v8, there are custom arenas.
Remove default 8v8 rooms once and for all.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

This is one discussion we’ve had multiple times internally as of late. It’s tricky because 5v5 is much more plagued with autobalance issues than 8v8. We agree that 8v8 doesn’t teach players the type of PvP we wish to pass along to our youngsters but there are still surely players who enjoy it. I personally would like to see 8v8 removed but we might need to visit how hitting play now prioritizes matches that haven’t started.

I would think that when (if) you introduce new game modes, e.g. TDM, it would be necessary to revisit hot join anyways – at which point you should remove 8v8 from conquest but probably keep it available for other game modes where it makes more sense (e.g. TDM) – of course this probably requires new maps as well so the effort is adding up.

I don’t think 8v8 should be removed. Obviously it’s a game mode some people enjoy, myself included. If you don’t agree with my values then don’t play 8v8, simple as that. Play whatever makes you happy, let no one interfere.

If anything we need more game modes, let the players play what they want to play.

This paternalistic attitude of “what we want our youngsters to learn” is absurd. Let people decide for themselves what they want to learn. If you don’t agree with other people’s choices then keep it to yourself, no one needs anyone else’s permission to play this game as they see fit and I don’t see why they should.

People will complain about anything.

I don’t see what the big deal is. You have 5v5 solo and team que as well as hotjoins — if that is what you prefer.

Personally, I like the option to choose 5v5, 8v8 or do WvW. If you think 8v8 is too much of a zergfest, what do you think about WvW? Should that be deleted too because of your personal preference?

Most pvp maps are plenty big enough to support 8 players. If you spectate 8v8 hotjoins, only a small % of fighting is spent in AOE zergs. The real difference that there is a ton more action off the nodes than compared with 5v5.

This is hardly the biggest problem in the game needing a whine thread.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

The decision on this topic has yet to be made. Either Josh or myself can give an update when a decision is made. However let me ask this, would you guys like to see less 8v8 servers? no 8v8 servers? Possibly re-work the play now so that it looks for 5v5 matches as priority?

I prefer to shut down all ArenaNet-hosted 8v8 servers and fully support 5v5 hotjoin servers. The only 8v8 servers that would remain would originate from Custom Arenas.

I don’t necessarily see the need for 8v8 anymore. I guess the original idea was that people would be coming in and out all the time, and so to lessen the impact of a single player leaving, you just have a higher maximum number of players (ex: 7v8 is less of a disadvantage than 4v5 percentage-wise). While this is true, I’ve found that the addition of spectators makes it less likely that a 5v5 hotjoin will stay unbalanced for a very long period of time, since usually there is a spectator waiting to join anyway. As a downside to 8v8, I think it can be discouraging to newer players when they get jumped by 6+ players at once and they haven’t gotten proficient enough at map awareness yet to avoid the zerg.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

It was simply a joke, I’m sure you’re fully capable of taking one. It’s a video game and we are simply attempting to provide the most quality experience we can for our players in game so they can play as they wish.

Anyways concerning the topic, there are players that impeded from getting better at our game and something we wish to do is help players understand how PvP works and help them get better if they do wish it so.

The decision on this topic has yet to be made. Either Josh or myself can give an update when a decision is made. However let me ask this, would you guys like to see less 8v8 servers? no 8v8 servers? Possibly re-work the play now so that it looks for 5v5 matches as priority?

What makes you assume that their impediment to progress is Anet’s fault and not their own?

I think you should just focus on giving people the tools they need to improve and making them easy to understand. The best/least intrusive option I can think of is to simply clean up the spvp UI. Right now it’s a jumbled mess and at first glance there’s no discernible way of separating 8v8 from 5v5 options. There’s also the visual clutter added by all the player-made custom arena titles. Perhaps they should all be separated into their own categories a la tournaments.

The current tournament UI is much easier to understand. It gives you option A and option B and a clear visual aid and textual description of what each choice entails.

garethh.3518:

dead set on nitpicking

Believe me, I’m not. I just like having a discussion on this because I think it’s important for the game.

garethh.3518:

Differing playstyles makes a different gamemode.

Certainly, and really that is the only pro that I can think of about 8v8, but even then it fails, as you and I have mentioned, because of all of the chaos that insues in the game.

garethh.3518:

The crutches…

This part is blowing things out of proportion, and I’m almost certain you know this and I’m also certain you know that what you proposed -as what you think is my viewpoint- is not my viewpoint. As someone stated before, with the line of reasoning you presented, why don’t we have 12v12 games on these map sizes, or 32v32? Afterall, teammates make games more social, right? So obviously more is better. Well there is a reason why we don’t see this and I’m sure you and I both know why – I have stated the reasons earlier. It’s certainly not because the only thing holding these modes back in these map sizes are the dev’s programming skills.

Have to say when I do hotjoin I always go 8v8. I play 5v5 enough in tournament or solo. It’s fun going in and just having constant fights in an environment where result is not the be all and end all. I do not think removing 8v8 will encourage more players into 5v5, only making 5v5 more fun and with more game modes will do that.

sendmark.4731:

Have to say when I do hotjoin I always go 8v8. I play 5v5 enough in tournament or solo. It’s fun going in and just having constant fights in an environment where result is not the be all and end all. I do not think removing 8v8 will encourage more players into 5v5, only making 5v5 more fun and with more game modes will do that.

Agree. Focus on incentives. Increase player choice don’t limit it.