The season that broke the camels back

The season that broke the camels back

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

After playing upward of 600 games per season 1 – 5 I find myself barely playing 3 games a day this season. I notice no changes to match making, no changes to class stacking. And today after facing 3 teams with 4 DH in each and my teams with none I can’t deal with it anymore. My enthusiasm has eroded so badly that I find myself unable to even think about playing the game I loved for so long. I dunno if I will see this season out but it will definitely be my last. This game has been soul destroying to me, seeing the worst matchups I can imagine, I can’t even….

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

Some of these matchups really are bad but it’s been like that since s1. The only way to make matchmaking a bit more “accurate” is if each character/profession had its own individual mmr. Even then, it’s a challenge for matchmaking to differentiate how a player performs in a given comp. Matchmaking reads numbers on a spread sheet but it doesn’t take things like Build & Team Compositions into consideration.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

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Posted by: LouWolfskin.3492

LouWolfskin.3492

Some of these matchups really are bad but it’s been like that since s1. The only way to make matchmaking a bit more “accurate” is if each character/profession had its own individual mmr. Even then, it’s a challenge for matchmaking to differentiate how a player performs in a given comp. Matchmaking reads numbers on a spread sheet but it doesn’t take things like Build & Team Compositions into consideration.

But the community voted for a no on Profession mmr because it would be bad.

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Posted by: BlooDyliCious.5824

BlooDyliCious.5824

Wait, they voted no for profession mmr? kitten PvP community, your destroying yourself.

I am pretty good on some classes, while garbage at others. Having profession mmr would actually let me play on a lower level with classes i don’t know yet without getting dumpstered every game.

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Posted by: LouWolfskin.3492

LouWolfskin.3492

The argument was that it wouldn’t help with the ‘real’ problems. Also, class stacking is not an issue, despite evidence to the contrary.

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Posted by: Abelisk.4527

Abelisk.4527

Some of these matchups really are bad but it’s been like that since s1. The only way to make matchmaking a bit more “accurate” is if each character/profession had its own individual mmr. Even then, it’s a challenge for matchmaking to differentiate how a player performs in a given comp. Matchmaking reads numbers on a spread sheet but it doesn’t take things like Build & Team Compositions into consideration.

But the community voted for a no on Profession mmr because it would be bad.

They voted “No” on class locking before the match started. Whatever classes existed ingame were indefinite. Because of this there would be “class/profession MMR” and no class stacking to ensure the best experience. Thing is people can’t trust Anet / people thought class stacking was still gonna be a thing.

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Posted by: sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

Wait, they voted no for profession mmr? kitten PvP community, your destroying yourself.

No, he’s just using an escapegoat…..

Players voted “No” to locking classes at the start of the game and that’s it.

We can still have better matchmaking, we can still have Profession MMR if Anet wants to give it to us.

I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.

(edited by sephiroth.4217)

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Posted by: gebrechen.5643

gebrechen.5643

Balancing feels even worse this season. Matchmaking has to be worse by the lower number of players participating after the changes to ascended.
And not a single meaningful pvp patch before season started.

Way to destroy your pvp, Anet. Good job.

Some people die on epidemic, other have skill.
- great warlord Waha of Sea 2981bc

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Posted by: Ithilwen.1529

Ithilwen.1529

I’m seeing a lot of those stacks. Quite a few of them have been pretty poorly played though.

A dh stack isn’t a certain loss as it was back in earlier seasons.

Mesmerising Girl

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Posted by: Vicariuz.1605

Vicariuz.1605

Some of these matchups really are bad but it’s been like that since s1. The only way to make matchmaking a bit more “accurate” is if each character/profession had its own individual mmr. Even then, it’s a challenge for matchmaking to differentiate how a player performs in a given comp. Matchmaking reads numbers on a spread sheet but it doesn’t take things like Build & Team Compositions into consideration.

But the community voted for a no on Profession mmr because it would be bad.

They voted “No” on class locking before the match started. Whatever classes existed ingame were indefinite. Because of this there would be “class/profession MMR” and no class stacking to ensure the best experience. Thing is people can’t trust Anet / people thought class stacking was still gonna be a thing.

Anet said specifically that class stacking would still exist, you need to read more thoroughly.

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Posted by: Kako.1930

Kako.1930

Some of these matchups really are bad but it’s been like that since s1. The only way to make matchmaking a bit more “accurate” is if each character/profession had its own individual mmr. Even then, it’s a challenge for matchmaking to differentiate how a player performs in a given comp. Matchmaking reads numbers on a spread sheet but it doesn’t take things like Build & Team Compositions into consideration.

But the community voted for a no on Profession mmr because it would be bad.

They voted “No” on class locking before the match started. Whatever classes existed ingame were indefinite. Because of this there would be “class/profession MMR” and no class stacking to ensure the best experience. Thing is people can’t trust Anet / people thought class stacking was still gonna be a thing.

Anet said specifically that class stacking would still exist, you need to read more thoroughly.

That is correct. This is what Evan Lesh said when asked about profession stacking in the profession locking thread:

“It’s hard to say what will happen to queue times if we enforce a hard limit on professions. The compromise is to let the profession limit increase over time.”

It was only speculated as to what might happen if they did attempt something like removing profession stacking, but that was not part of their intentions with locking professions. People just assumed that profession locking = removing profession stacking, and that’s not the case.

Edit: autocorrect changed Evan’s last name to Leah, lol.

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

Wait, they voted no for profession mmr? kitten PvP community, your destroying yourself.

No, he’s just using an escapegoat…..

Players voted “No” to locking classes at the start of the game and that’s it.

We can still have better matchmaking, we can still have Profession MMR if Anet wants to give it to us.

Hardly paraphrasing. Anet darn near said that profession based mmr is possible, as well as an array of other matchmaking options will be made available if we had profession locked queueing.

Only reason people voted “No” is because they wanted a choice to swap classes. Yet only 1 person swaps to that secondary class once every 3 games.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

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Posted by: Spartacus.3192

Spartacus.3192

The POLL was badly designed. If ANET had said they would institute Class locking, Class MMR and prevent Class Stacking all in one patch and then put a poll out we would have had a different result.

Your typical average gamer -
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "

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Posted by: Shaogin.2679

Shaogin.2679

Some of these matchups really are bad but it’s been like that since s1. The only way to make matchmaking a bit more “accurate” is if each character/profession had its own individual mmr. Even then, it’s a challenge for matchmaking to differentiate how a player performs in a given comp. Matchmaking reads numbers on a spread sheet but it doesn’t take things like Build & Team Compositions into consideration.

But the community voted for a no on Profession mmr because it would be bad.

They voted “No” on class locking before the match started. Whatever classes existed ingame were indefinite. Because of this there would be “class/profession MMR” and no class stacking to ensure the best experience. Thing is people can’t trust Anet / people thought class stacking was still gonna be a thing.

Anet said specifically that class stacking would still exist, you need to read more thoroughly.

That is correct. This is what Evan Lesh said when asked about profession stacking in the profession locking thread:

“It’s hard to say what will happen to queue times if we enforce a hard limit on professions. The compromise is to let the profession limit increase over time.”

It was only speculated as to what might happen if they did attempt something like removing profession stacking, but that was not part of their intentions with locking professions. People just assumed that profession locking = removing profession stacking, and that’s not the case.

Edit: autocorrect changed Evan’s last name to Leah, lol.

Yes, because Anet didn’t promise to obliterate class stacking right off the bat with no regards to the consequences, people took it as though it would never happen. Thus is the wonderful logic of this community.

Doc Von Doom – Asuran Necromancer
Gate of Madness
Contribute to the Wiki MetaBattle Builds

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Posted by: fishball.7204

fishball.7204

Yes, because Anet didn’t promise to obliterate class stacking right off the bat with no regards to the consequences, people took it as though it would never happen. Thus is the wonderful logic of this community.

I guess the community just looks at the glacial pace in which ANet does anything and just assumed the worst which is fair tbh. It took them the entire S5 to ban cheaters on the ladder and even then some still got off and S6 didn’t even offer anything new compared to S5 except reward nerfs.

Like if they brought out build templates, initial class stacking prevention etc THEN did the poll I’m pretty sure the results would be different.

FOR THE GREEEEEEEEEEEEN

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Posted by: Kako.1930

Kako.1930

Yes, because Anet didn’t promise to obliterate class stacking right off the bat with no regards to the consequences, people took it as though it would never happen. Thus is the wonderful logic of this community.

I guess the community just looks at the glacial pace in which ANet does anything and just assumed the worst which is fair tbh. It took them the entire S5 to ban cheaters on the ladder and even then some still got off and S6 didn’t even offer anything new compared to S5 except reward nerfs.

Like if they brought out build templates, initial class stacking prevention etc THEN did the poll I’m pretty sure the results would be different.

Apparently a lot of people were wearing their Rose colored glasses and thinking class stacking would be removed at the same time as profession locking, or even soon after lol. No one said it would never happen, but knowing the history of gw2, it wouldn’t be anytime soon (and that’s if Anet decided to go through with it, which they indicated that they weren’t sure if they really wanted to because it would increase queue times). It’s cute to see how hopeful some people still are though.

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Posted by: Shaogin.2679

Shaogin.2679

Yes, because Anet didn’t promise to obliterate class stacking right off the bat with no regards to the consequences, people took it as though it would never happen. Thus is the wonderful logic of this community.

I guess the community just looks at the glacial pace in which ANet does anything and just assumed the worst which is fair tbh. It took them the entire S5 to ban cheaters on the ladder and even then some still got off and S6 didn’t even offer anything new compared to S5 except reward nerfs.

Like if they brought out build templates, initial class stacking prevention etc THEN did the poll I’m pretty sure the results would be different.

Apparently a lot of people were wearing their Rose colored glasses and thinking class stacking would be removed at the same time as profession locking, or even soon after lol. No one said it would never happen, but knowing the history of gw2, it wouldn’t be anytime soon (and that’s if Anet decided to go through with it, which they indicated that they weren’t sure if they really wanted to because it would increase queue times). It’s cute to see how hopeful some people still are though.

Pretty sure people just wanted any change and saw it as a step that would make future changes possible. Pretty sure most people that voted yes didn’t care about classes being locked even if they still allowed class stacking since hardly anyone swaps classes anyways.

Doc Von Doom – Asuran Necromancer
Gate of Madness
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Posted by: megilandil.7506

megilandil.7506

Wait, they voted no for profession mmr? kitten PvP community, your destroying yourself.

No, he’s just using an escapegoat…..

Players voted “No” to locking classes at the start of the game and that’s it.

We can still have better matchmaking, we can still have Profession MMR if Anet wants to give it to us.

without profesion locking in q class mmr only is viable for statistics, not for q(you q with the class whith your lowest mmr and rerolls to main…. xploit)

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Posted by: Vicariuz.1605

Vicariuz.1605

It is absolutely hilarious that people still believe change for the sake of it is a worthwhile venture, take a hint from the current GOP republicans / president, it’s not.

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Posted by: Kir Sakar.3647

Kir Sakar.3647

It is absolutely hilarious that people still believe change for the sake of it is a worthwhile venture, take a hint from the current GOP republicans / president, it’s not.

Quoted for truth.

Charr Chronomancer | Asura Tempest | Charr Druid | Charr Guardian
(Seafarer’s Rest, EU)

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Posted by: Loboling.5293

Loboling.5293

But the community voted for a no on Profession mmr because it would be bad.

Please don’t lie. A-net held a petition to decide on class locking for queuing. Here is the poll which would’ve gotten a yes vote:

New pvp revamp poll:
Locked queing
Profession based mmr
Team composition locking (no more than 2 of each class per team)

Instead, they tried to add only one part of the puzzle, and of course people voted no. When you roll thief and you encounter a 4 dh team, your only option is to reroll, which wouldn’t work with queue locking. They need to add everything at once for a new system to work. It’s like trying to make eyes work without tear ducts. They shot themselves in the foot with the poll. It was voted no, but for good reason. Pvpers don’t want to wait X months for A-Net to fix all the problems locked queuing on its own would cause.

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Posted by: Spartacus.3192

Spartacus.3192

But the community voted for a no on Profession mmr because it would be bad.

Please don’t lie. A-net held a petition to decide on class locking for queuing. Here is the poll which would’ve gotten a yes vote:

New pvp revamp poll:
Locked queing
Profession based mmr
Team composition locking (no more than 2 of each class per team)

Instead, they tried to add only one part of the puzzle, and of course people voted no. When you roll thief and you encounter a 4 dh team, your only option is to reroll, which wouldn’t work with queue locking. They need to add everything at once for a new system to work. It’s like trying to make eyes work without tear ducts. They shot themselves in the foot with the poll. It was voted no, but for good reason. Pvpers don’t want to wait X months for A-Net to fix all the problems locked queuing on its own would cause.

EXACTLY, you said it in more detail than I did earlier but yes exactly this.

Your typical average gamer -
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "

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Posted by: Kako.1930

Kako.1930

But the community voted for a no on Profession mmr because it would be bad.

Please don’t lie. A-net held a petition to decide on class locking for queuing. Here is the poll which would’ve gotten a yes vote:

New pvp revamp poll:
Locked queing
Profession based mmr
Team composition locking (no more than 2 of each class per team)

Instead, they tried to add only one part of the puzzle, and of course people voted no. When you roll thief and you encounter a 4 dh team, your only option is to reroll, which wouldn’t work with queue locking. They need to add everything at once for a new system to work. It’s like trying to make eyes work without tear ducts. They shot themselves in the foot with the poll. It was voted no, but for good reason. Pvpers don’t want to wait X months for A-Net to fix all the problems locked queuing on its own would cause.

This puts it perfectly. If they do a total revamp and change everything at once then more players will vote yes for sure.

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Posted by: mrauls.6519

mrauls.6519

We need a complete profession overhaul, better rewards & better marketing/advertising so this game gets more players.

It’s easier said than done, but I feel like ANet is really screwing themselves over in the longterm. I’m tired of getting “close games” due to the fact I have people with 1,200 MMR on my team

Mes (Guardian)
I make PvP & WvW videos

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Posted by: Nightshade.2570

Nightshade.2570

Wait, they voted no for profession mmr? kitten PvP community, your destroying yourself.

No, he’s just using an escapegoat…..

Players voted “No” to locking classes at the start of the game and that’s it.

We can still have better matchmaking, we can still have Profession MMR if Anet wants to give it to us.

You didnt read the thread. The Devs for PvP specifically came out and said, that they needed to lock classes the minute you queued in order to use class specific MMR and make Class leaderboards. Which makes sense as players could manipulate things by queueing as one class they arent good on then switching to another during the waiting period.

So it had to be locked in order to use Class stats. We won’t be getting that now, as players can change to whatever class up until the final bell.

People rarely switch classes when there are more then one of them on a team because they either don’t have the resources to (newer or just a single class player) or because they don’t feel like it.

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Posted by: Nightshade.2570

Nightshade.2570

But the community voted for a no on Profession mmr because it would be bad.

Please don’t lie. A-net held a petition to decide on class locking for queuing. Here is the poll which would’ve gotten a yes vote:

New pvp revamp poll:
Locked queing
Profession based mmr
Team composition locking (no more than 2 of each class per team)

Instead, they tried to add only one part of the puzzle, and of course people voted no. When you roll thief and you encounter a 4 dh team, your only option is to reroll, which wouldn’t work with queue locking. They need to add everything at once for a new system to work. It’s like trying to make eyes work without tear ducts. They shot themselves in the foot with the poll. It was voted no, but for good reason. Pvpers don’t want to wait X months for A-Net to fix all the problems locked queuing on its own would cause.

The devs said that it was to complicated to build the Matchmaking system to balance around class locking, so they can’t do it. People need to go read what the devs said in that thread.

They made it pretty clear they needed to lock your class from the moment you match up in order to use the class data.

So because people voted against the poll, we get none of it. If you were hoping to hold out for them to lock classes in the matchmaking system, based on their comments, its not happening.

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Posted by: SOFYAORLENA.5849

SOFYAORLENA.5849

Guardians with stupid traps op, point in this game? really they called it meta I call it poor balance

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Posted by: sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

Wait, they voted no for profession mmr? kitten PvP community, your destroying yourself.

No, he’s just using an escapegoat…..

Players voted “No” to locking classes at the start of the game and that’s it.

We can still have better matchmaking, we can still have Profession MMR if Anet wants to give it to us.

Hardly paraphrasing. Anet darn near said that profession based mmr is possible, as well as an array of other matchmaking options will be made available if we had profession locked queueing.

Only reason people voted “No” is because they wanted a choice to swap classes. Yet only 1 person swaps to that secondary class once every 3 games.

That’s just bribery….. “if you say yes we’ll give you a better match making”….

Absolutely nothing stopping them from giving us profession mmr (whichever class they are on when the game begins) or fixing the matchmaking.

If a car runs out of petrol, you put petrol in it, you don’t add a spoiler and say “fixed”. If matchmaking is broken, you fix it, you don’t add a poll to put on a bunch of spoilers so to speak and act surprised when people rather the core issue fixed first…..

And like they said, if we say yes then they can work on better match making… Bribery. Blaming players for Anets choice… Scapegoat.

I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.

(edited by sephiroth.4217)

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Posted by: Exedore.6320

Exedore.6320

But the community voted for a no on Profession mmr because it would be bad.

And it would be bad. Been explained multiple times in other threads.

The problem with class stacking is balance! Make DH less brain-dead to play and you won’t see so many of them. No need for obtuse rules to bog down the matchmaker with longer queues which don’t even solve the problem.

Kirrena Rosenkreutz

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

Wait, they voted no for profession mmr? kitten PvP community, your destroying yourself.

No, he’s just using an escapegoat…..

Players voted “No” to locking classes at the start of the game and that’s it.

We can still have better matchmaking, we can still have Profession MMR if Anet wants to give it to us.

Hardly paraphrasing. Anet darn near said that profession based mmr is possible, as well as an array of other matchmaking options will be made available if we had profession locked queueing.

Only reason people voted “No” is because they wanted a choice to swap classes. Yet only 1 person swaps to that secondary class once every 3 games.

Absolutely nothing stopping them from giving us profession mmr (whichever class they are on when the game begins) or fixing the matchmaking.

Are you saying Anet should have just implemented professiom based queueimg wothout player consent? If so then I agree 100%. Have class swapping in unrank.

If you’re saying that MM should just start labeling player’s professions with mmr rating regardless, only to have that class swap to a completely different class beginning of the map, will defeat the entire purpose of profession based mmr. Matchmaking would be worse and players would deliberately queue with low mmr professions.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

(edited by Saiyan.1704)

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Posted by: Ithilwen.1529

Ithilwen.1529

I think anet would have been wise to go ahead and implement locking classes and profession MMR.

Not all decisions should be put to a vote.

Mesmerising Girl

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Posted by: sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

Wait, they voted no for profession mmr? kitten PvP community, your destroying yourself.

No, he’s just using an escapegoat…..

Players voted “No” to locking classes at the start of the game and that’s it.

We can still have better matchmaking, we can still have Profession MMR if Anet wants to give it to us.

Hardly paraphrasing. Anet darn near said that profession based mmr is possible, as well as an array of other matchmaking options will be made available if we had profession locked queueing.

Only reason people voted “No” is because they wanted a choice to swap classes. Yet only 1 person swaps to that secondary class once every 3 games.

Absolutely nothing stopping them from giving us profession mmr (whichever class they are on when the game begins) or fixing the matchmaking.

Are you saying Anet should have just implemented professiom based queueimg wothout player consent? If so then I agree 100%. Have class swapping in unrank.

If you’re saying that MM should just start labeling player’s professions with mmr rating regardless, only to have that class swap to a completely different class beginning of the map, will defeat the entire purpose of profession based mmr. Matchmaking would be worse and players would deliberately queue with low mmr professions.

They should do a lot of things without our consent but no that’s not what I’m saying… You also misread what I said about the start of the match. When the game begins, it should be off that class that is being used.

BUT

If they really wanted to deliver profession MMR, the first step would have been to fix the matchmaking and then propose changes to it… People didn’t trust being locked into a 3 thief team vs a 4 dh team and we can clearly see this is still happening in season 6. (bullet dodged I guess)

IF

They had a reliable matchmaking before asking us if we wanted a more technical MM with locked in classes, I’m positive the vote would have been more in favor of yes

BUT KNOWING

Anet is a company that needs to apply its resources in a smart way, it’s better for them to cater their time to paying customers in PvE rather than to a small portion of the PvP population who most likely never spends money.

WHICH IS WHY

I can understand the poll being delivered in a poor way to favor a No (less work).

(It’s one of the many forms of manipulation you come across in business management, this one in particular is called Media Manipulation: is a series of related techniques in which partisans create an image or argument that favours their particular interests)

Thus concludes, don’t use the players as a scapegoat. If Anet wanted those things for us, we would have them. They are really good programmers/encoders but they are also a business that needs to make an income, doing this profession mmr generates 0 income as opposed to a new LS map.

(If you can make a small portion of people happy for free or make a large portion of people happy and make a million bucks for the same time spent, what would you choose?)

I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.

(edited by sephiroth.4217)

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Posted by: Vague Memory.2817

Vague Memory.2817

Class stacking that is effective shows an inherent imbalance between classes. Some classes are hard or soft counters to other classes (which is a ridiculous situation). A few are easier to play than others with a much lower skill bar, but more damage rewarding like DH. I shouldn’t have more success playing a newly created DH than a class I’ve played for several years. Some maps favour large aoe condi fields because of small caps and thus favour certain classes. Anet need to grow a pair and make the changes that are needed without giving into players who complain because their class have a imbalanced advantage that they want to keep.