Guild Wars 2

Good changes to trait facts and all that. Very good.

But lets be honest. There is pretty much no balance changes in this patch.

Warrior is still broken OP. Rabid Necro broken OP. Spirit rangers broken OP. S/d thief broken OP. Bunker guardian OP. Engi OP.Mesmer OP but slightly less OP. Ele OP but least OP so its not good.

Why don’t you just nerf all the lame kitten that made everyone quit. Stop trying to make new builds. Just destroy the builds which crush other builds and new builds will rise up.

Like you tried to make mantras viable or whatever. Well the bar is too high right now. The only way something can become viable is if it is broken OP to the point where it isnt fun to play with or against.

In isolation the new builds like shout warriors and mantra mesmers that you tried to create are awesome and viable. But when you have to play them against specs which evade 24/7, boon steal, crazy damage and amazing res utility – or other specs that are similarly powerful then who cares.

[QUOTE]Mesmer OP but slightly less OP. Ele OP but least OP so its not good.[/QUOTE] I’m sorry, what?

Every profession is OP.
Sounds like balance.

not sure if trolling

Errant Venture.9371:

Every profession is OP.
Sounds like balance.

Yah I was going to say that. If people are calling pretty much every class OP, I think that means the balance of the game is pretty kitten good.

Condi doesn’t need nerfing because lock down Warriors exist.

Lock down Warriors don’t need nerfing because Mesmer/Thief/multiple other builds exist.

Mesmer/Thief/multiple other builds don’t need nerfing because conditions exist.

Pretty much Rock-Paper-Scissors.

I’m not sure what Ele’s think about this patch, but I do want them to become a viable alternative for Guardian as mid bunker.

You literally just listed off every single class and called them all OP.

Errant Venture.9371:

Every profession is OP.
Sounds like balance.

No it sounds lame.

Larynx.2453:

You literally just listed off every single class and called them all OP.

Cos they are all OP to differing degrees. So the game is horrible.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Errant Venture.9371:

Every profession is OP.
Sounds like balance.

No it sounds lame.

I agree. I don’t want to play rock-paper-scissors. There is no fun if you know when you will win and when you will lose.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Errant Venture.9371:

Every profession is OP.
Sounds like balance.

Yah I was going to say that. If people are calling pretty much every class OP, I think that means the balance of the game is pretty kitten good.

Condi doesn’t need nerfing because lock down Warriors exist.

Lock down Warriors don’t need nerfing because Mesmer/Thief/multiple other builds exist.

Mesmer/Thief/multiple other builds don’t need nerfing because conditions exist.

Pretty much Rock-Paper-Scissors.

I’m not sure what Ele’s think about this patch, but I do want them to become a viable alternative for Guardian as mid bunker.

5v5 Rock, Paper, Scissors with positioning to determine what beats what over cap points is not good game design. Nor is it fun.

Balance should be more or less equal if not 50/50 then 40/60 I’m terms of advantage. Example: TF2 Demonan vs Heavy

Also one build with one specific spec being a hard counter is not balance.

^except that’s it’s a team game, so it comes down to trying implement solid comps without major weaknesses, and that it is fun.

builds will counter builds, it’s just how it is.

I think the point is that every class is OP does not imply balance, in the sense of good design. For example, in SC2, suppose every race has to play cheese to win, then even if the races have similar win/loss ratio, it is still not balanced/well designed.

Part of being a good player is using a good pvp build just saying. there is not one build that win everywhere there is at least 1 for every profession that is viable.
Except for elementalist i suppose.
They buffed skills that none use how is that not trying to make more builds viable?

so, warrior has:
-biggiest tankinees (highest armor/hp base pool) ALWAYS
-biggiest heal (broken sigil OP) ALWAYS
-2nd best condition clear (after necro) usually ALWAYS
-high burst *
-high condi spec *
-highest mobility *
-stun lock *
*can get 2 of this things at the same time

dont really see any other class able to get all of this. Maybe a suggestion ?
I dont really see where is stone/paper/scissor

necro:
amazing condi burst, that nobody can clean,
good tankiness
no mobility

thief:
perma evade
high burst
good condi clear
high mobility
poor tankiness

As an ele, i’ll answer BurrTheKing:
every single thing about us in this patch is 100% useless in a pvp-sigh.
Staff still auto-lose
One with air dont give us highest mobility at all (and cost us dps if we take it (sacrifice bolt to the hearth))
Conjure still 100%useless

I’m fine with the current ele (or at least i’d like debugging (example: lingeirng element …)), i dont ask buff, i ask nerf on imba spec (imo warrior (thief already got enough nerfed in my mind))

Every class being OP does not express balance.

It expresses power creep, which is usually created when, instead of fixing something that is problematic, something is changed in order to counter the problem, creating a new problem in the process.

Brigg.6189:

^except that’s it’s a team game, so it comes down to trying implement solid comps without major weaknesses, and that it is fun.

builds will counter builds, it’s just how it is.

Except it isnt rock paper scissors at all. It is just lame kitten. There is no rock paper scissors with these builds. They are builds with no counters except something equally lame.

Brigg.6189:

^except that’s it’s a team game, so it comes down to trying implement solid comps without major weaknesses, and that it is fun.

builds will counter builds, it’s just how it is.

And yet a lot of “Pros” left. What’s left of the community in majority just run spam no skill easy win or are not satisfied with the current state. Dwindling community with people always leaving and very few joining.

Clearly this is fun.

Well no it isn’t, it would be fun if the balance was more
Even like LoL or TF2.

“Well if your not having fun why don’t you quit?” Mostly PvE friends (since all my PvP ones quit long ago) and the combat flows better when I’m not auto attacking to win on a ranger. TBH I heard how GW1 was really balanced tho I never played it and coming from WoW it’s what I was hoping for, a balanced skillful fight and clearly a year later I haven’t gotten what I expected.

I’ve been tolerant of every patch and everyone has a fed up point. This one after 4 months of nothing is mine.

Once again the noobs turn this into a balance discussion and derail it.

Maybe try and read what I say

It isn’t about balance, it is about stuff being VERY powerful on alot of builds which makes other builds not viable. It is a crazy power creep

Its like in an fps if they say “Noob tubes are powerful we need to balance it” and instead of just nerfing the OP lameness that every hates they just make all weapons 1 shot kills. It is absurd.

That is why people quit this kitten. Because it is all lamey cheese.

Lordrosicky.5813:

stuff being VERY powerful on alot of builds which makes other builds not viable.

Cuz clearly power creep has nothing to do with balance.

Daishi.6027:

Lordrosicky.5813:

stuff being VERY powerful on alot of builds which makes other builds not viable.

Cuz clearly power creep has nothing to do with balance.

Balance can be decent even though power creep has happened though.

You can’t say “every class is op” to people on forum because most people are not bright enough tor read between the lines. They will just think “IF EVERYTHING IS OP EVERYTHING IS THE SAME YOU NOOB”. You need to explain them. Slowly. With dumb words.

I still don’t understand how people.believe that Thieves have high burst, that build was killed months ago, and you can’t burst with an S/D build (the one that evades 3 times that everyone calls “permaevasion”), lol.

Incurafy.6329:

I still don’t understand how people.believe that Thieves have high burst, that build was killed months ago, and you can’t burst with an S/D build (the one that evades 3 times that everyone calls “permaevasion”), lol.

evades 3 times? lolol

s/d thief can evade 2 times then trait refills enough for a 3rd. Signet of agility = 3 more dodges. shortbow 3 or sword 3 = evades on spam.

I’ve bunked 1v3 for 20+ seconds without taking a single hit on point. Not hard to do with s/d….

Also don’t forget double s/d with energy sigils. even more dodge…

Incurafy man s/d thieves can evade spam all day.

One thing I hated about this patch is that traits that have ICDs indicated before now has no ICD indicated like Tempest Defense. I mean yeah, the improved tooltips on skills and traits are awesome, but they are still incomplete.

ICDs!

ICDs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mesmer is the king atm, can nuke a node with 50k dps aoe.

JinDaVikk.7291:

s/d thief can evade 2 times then trait refills enough for a 3rd. Signet of agility = 3 more dodges. shortbow 3 or sword 3 = evades on spam.

I’ve bunked 1v3 for 20+ seconds without taking a single hit on point. Not hard to do with s/d….

Also don’t forget double s/d with energy sigils. even more dodge…

Incurafy man s/d thieves can evade spam all day.

yeah and while evading so much you are helping your team right?
it’s better to bring a perma evade selfish thief over a “perma CC semi tank\dps warrior” that can AoE Stun\AoE dps\ stability stomp and high regen hp.

just because you managed to survive 20 seconds against 3 scrubs doesn’t make thief OP all of a sudden.
But this game is for casuals and casuals doesn’t want to see their skill spamming evaded time by time and A-Net approves

BurrTheKing.8571:

Errant Venture.9371:

Every profession is OP.
Sounds like balance.

Yah I was going to say that. If people are calling pretty much every class OP, I think that means the balance of the game is pretty kitten good.

Condi doesn’t need nerfing because lock down Warriors exist.

Lock down Warriors don’t need nerfing because Mesmer/Thief/multiple other builds exist.

Mesmer/Thief/multiple other builds don’t need nerfing because conditions exist.

Pretty much Rock-Paper-Scissors.

I’m not sure what Ele’s think about this patch, but I do want them to become a viable alternative for Guardian as mid bunker.

Rock-Paper-Scissors is the worst game mechanic ever, but I consider making a online Rock-Paper-Scissors simulator, with a microtransaction store for additional rock, paper or scissors skins to buy. Gameplay will just consists of pressing either rock, paper or scissors while the opponent does this himself.
Seems like there is a massive market for such a game.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

One thing I hated about this patch is that traits that have ICDs indicated before now has no ICD indicated like Tempest Defense. I mean yeah, the improved tooltips on skills and traits are awesome, but they are still incomplete.

ICDs!

ICDs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mesmer ICD’s are listed in the top right …. for traits.

I think once the QQ storm settles down people are going to see that immob stacking as a team will let you run pretty much any class you want, burst or condi.

If you can’t dodge something that limits the defensive advantage sigil of energy has or permadodge S/D thief

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to jump in and say thanks for keeping things constructive!

The idea right now is to see how the current changes impact the meta, and then do another set of balance in an upcoming patch.

The trait facts were a lot of work, but the clarity they give you guys is VERY good for you. So we wanted to see if that would shake up trait builds at all in order to see how you guys adjusted. Once THAT settles, we want to make balance changes based off the meta at that time. We didn’t want to change all the trait facts and also add in a lot of balance changes on top of it.

We still did a lot of balance stuff, but we were careful not to go overboard with this patch. Just like we learned w/ the Warrior a few updates back, sometimes the meta can undergo drastic changes even if we do VERY little to impact the balance.

We’re planning on doing another round of updates to traits for every class (either changing #‘s, shifting tiers around to make more builds viable, or doing trait reworks), and we also have our eye on a few “apex” builds. But, again we don’t want to shave those too much.

Thanks again for the thoughts and feedback!

Chap + the balance tam

Thanks for the response and explanation, Jon. Given the upcoming events, can you confirm my suspicions that we won’t see any further balance changes before the WvW season is over? Cheers!

Ya people are freaking out but I keep saying and it will eventually show itself that immob stacking just changed the meta in a huge way

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to jump in and say thanks for keeping things constructive!

The idea right now is to see how the current changes impact the meta, and then do another set of balance in an upcoming patch.

The trait facts were a lot of work, but the clarity they give you guys is VERY good for you. So we wanted to see if that would shake up trait builds at all in order to see how you guys adjusted. Once THAT settles, we want to make balance changes based off the meta at that time. We didn’t want to change all the trait facts and also add in a lot of balance changes on top of it.

We still did a lot of balance stuff, but we were careful not to go overboard with this patch. Just like we learned w/ the Warrior a few updates back, sometimes the meta can undergo drastic changes even if we do VERY little to impact the balance.

We’re planning on doing another round of updates to traits for every class (either changing #‘s, shifting tiers around to make more builds viable, or doing trait reworks), and we also have our eye on a few “apex” builds. But, again we don’t want to shave those too much.

Thanks again for the thoughts and feedback!

Chap + the balance tam

mesmers jon, mesmers!

JonathanSharp.7094:

snip

Thanks for this post! People are jumping the gun a bit on this patch. There were a ton of changes to every profession and some QoL things (that, yes, should have probably been in the game for a while now — but still).

I would expect a few more apex builds to surface/be created in the coming weeks, some of which may easily take care of current builds. Also, interested in seeing how the sigil of para fix affects gameplay.

It seems like the balance team is choosing to make changes for the longevity of the game, rather than playing whack-a-mole, which I do appreciate.

@Jon — what QoL changes are you looking to make before making another large push for PvP population? i.e. what do you think about the game’s current playability or infrastructure needs to change before the PvP is in a state to market as an e-sports title? I think combat floaters/targeting/trait facts are fantastic for the game’s future. What are your thoughts?

Good to know more balance is coming but i just hope it is soon like you said.

I’m definitely loving the new trait tooltips! Duration increase, percentage increase, etc are all very very helpful in actually testing out builds and stuff.

But some still has info missing like Internal Cooldowns and some other percentage increase/decrease. One more polishing runthrough and they’d be awesome!

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to jump in and say thanks for keeping things constructive!

The idea right now is to see how the current changes impact the meta, and then do another set of balance in an upcoming patch.

The trait facts were a lot of work, but the clarity they give you guys is VERY good for you. So we wanted to see if that would shake up trait builds at all in order to see how you guys adjusted. Once THAT settles, we want to make balance changes based off the meta at that time. We didn’t want to change all the trait facts and also add in a lot of balance changes on top of it.

We still did a lot of balance stuff, but we were careful not to go overboard with this patch. Just like we learned w/ the Warrior a few updates back, sometimes the meta can undergo drastic changes even if we do VERY little to impact the balance.

We’re planning on doing another round of updates to traits for every class (either changing #‘s, shifting tiers around to make more builds viable, or doing trait reworks), and we also have our eye on a few “apex” builds. But, again we don’t want to shave those too much.

Thanks again for the thoughts and feedback!

Chap + the balance tam

could u guys please please help mesmers in wvw in zergs? we are way too much depending on our phantasns and clones and in a zerg they die way too quick. pleas we need balance in wvw. its not fun like this. i wanna be more than just a veil bot in wvw. id rather give up some of my duelist stuff and get some viable mesmer aoe abilities and a better build variety in wvw zergs. in spvp im doing alright with my mesmer but i play mainly wvw where i face a ton of zergs every day and yes we do lack a lot in that aspect of the game.
after confusion was nerfed like this u barely see mesmers in wvw. as a lightarmor class we should have more access to aoe without clones ore phantasms…like gw1 mesmers….warriors didnt need a buff in wvw at all. they are the most played class.

At this point I just wish Anet would stop balancing so carefully for the meta.

I’d really just prefer they go in and actually fix the stuff that sucks or is broken, and make everything fun and strong, obviously toning down the things that are overboard.

At this point, you really need to just make the game fun, but that’s just my opinion. It baffles me how some skills/traits that are outright GARBAGE, continue to not get any love, not even a quick band aid fix to help it along.

Like it’s frustrating to see Mesmer Sceptre Auto continue being terrible even since beta, then seeing the balance team on livestream say “we don’t know what to do with it”, then go and buff the skills that don’t need to be buffed further condemning the auto to being unbuffed.

I just don’t understand how that works, is it really too complicated or difficult to change a few numbers to just buff something that is clearly very bad? That is an honest question, I don’t know how your engine/editor is set up so it’s impossible for me to really say, compared to me just modding certain games and tweaking things.

For example, and I’m being slightly biased here of course, but take Engineers. The few changes they got this patch were nice, I admit that, but it was just a “few” changes. How come Flamethrower’s terrible auto hasn’t gotten a buff? I find it hard enough to take it over bomb kit in the first place, but then bomb gets some (needed) love, why can’t you just change a few numbers and make Flamethrower Auto hit harder, even if just in PvE?

Or how come Turrets are still incredibly clunky to use? Why can’t you just lower the cooldown on the 50 SECOND cooldown turrets to something more reasonable? Or make the “pick up” cooldown a flat 10-15 second cooldown so they aren’t useless in PvE or any time you need to move (which is like 95% of the game).

I understand you’re being careful with balance, but when outright terrible abilities are completely ignored, when they could just be given a quick band-aid fix, I just… don’t understand.

Anyway, there’s my rant.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to jump in and say thanks for keeping things constructive!

Well, let’s see if I can bring a little ‘balance’ to your roses and unicorns perspective on what just happened.

The idea right now is to see how the current changes impact the meta, and then do another set of balance in an upcoming patch.

What changes? No, seriously, WHAT CHANGES?

The trait facts were a lot of work, but the clarity they give you guys is VERY good for you.

I believe you that they were a lot of work, but let me clarify for you what you really just did. People that cared enough about their building already knew the tooltips were garbage, and had bashed together better player-made resources so that they could do some actually deep building. And at the end of the day, testing those builds tells you more than any tooltip, past or present.

And the other 97% of your player base? They plain old don’t care. They throw together whatever looks good from the written description (not the tool tips) or copy a build from these boards and see how it plays for them.

I LOVE good tooltips, but don’t for a moment think you’ve radically altered “the meta” by writing out in longhand what we could already see by doing the one thing the Balance Team is regularly accused of not doing… PLAYING THE GAME.

We didn’t want to change all the trait facts and also add in a lot of balance changes on top of it.

Well frankly, you should have, because the PROBLEMS, the grotesque INEQUITIES that exist in your meta for every aspect of play are continuing to FESTER.

We’re planning on doing another round of updates to traits for every class (either changing #‘s, shifting tiers around to make more builds viable, or doing trait reworks), and we also have our eye on a few “apex” builds. But, again we don’t want to shave those too much.

How is that different for every other day of the week? As far as we are concerned that’s you PRIMARY #(^&^$!! JOB and you haven’t seemed to be doing it for months now.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Warrior is still broken OP. Rabid Necro broken OP. Spirit rangers broken OP. S/d thief broken OP. Bunker guardian OP. Engi OP.Mesmer OP but slightly less OP. Ele OP but least OP so its not good.

So every class is OP?

Gallrvaghn.4921:

I’m definitely loving the new trait tooltips! Duration increase, percentage increase, etc are all very very helpful in actually testing out builds and stuff.

But some still has info missing like Internal Cooldowns and some other percentage increase/decrease. One more polishing runthrough and they’d be awesome!

Sure, they could stand to be better. in some cases MUCH better (Rangers have new tool tips that are flat out WRONG). But evidently that takes so much of their limited time that actual BALANCING has to be shelved for the 3 months it takes them to go through their database and annotate things properly.

I think I know what Lord is getting at and I’ll try to put it as simply as possible.

No patch Anet has done has has been focused on improving gameplay.

Sure they have made nifty UI changes from time to time… they spent like all the rest of the time trying to keep the top specs in classes roughly the same… those are elements of gameplay, but Anet has yet to seriously take a step back to look and look at the bigger picture…

Flipping a coin has perfect UI and is balanced as fracking possible… but it sucks.
Great balance and UI, with kitten gameplay that leaves half of everything feeling ‘OP’, makes a bad game.

I mean, it’s not like the devs haven’t tried to take a step back and improve gameplay. They made a good attempt by nerfing quickness… too bad they half ast it and left an entire class (warrior) as kitten useless for months on end because of it, then the ‘fix’ they got left the warrior even more cheesy than before…
(the point was to improve gameplay remember??? not to trash a class for months only to make it play worse than it started)

They try.
The devs seem to try very hard.
But they just don’t seem to know how or have the capability to make a game fun to play.
:/

Engineer is OP? too whom? they don’t even fit in the rock/paper/scissors. IF you remember the yearly stats, they are one of the least favored classes. So even when people try to decide on an alt, they don’t go, wow engie! thats a great idea.

Simply put, ele can put out clones that deal dmg, necro carries around tons of toys. but engineers ‘pets’ are so lame, all but 1(possibly 2) of the elite skills are completely worthless. If they nerf everyone for balance fine. but why are they finding new builds for the already ‘preferred’ damage classes when the least used classes lag even further behind as they ‘balance’ newly OP builds in already OP classes? A few (not all) of engie’s turrets should get slight nerfs ot dmg, and given mobility with tank treads or something. At least then, It’d make a little sense to have a turret build while running around.

P.S. That all being said screw the huge fail with chaos storm. So mad right now about wvw can’t even take a break to enjoy myself cause I’m still steaming. I feel angry and stupid that I bought gems yesterday now.

It’s still too early to say if the meta have changed or not (most likely no) but one thing anet refused to do is to “shave” (really just nerf it) these easy-to-play specs with high rewards.

I’ve been waiting patiently for the past few months for this patch to see anet’s stance on the risk/reward ratio. It seems like low risk/high reward specs are here to stay. This is also my departure from any spvp games (been playing everyday since early access till a few months ago).

This is the sort of thing I was talking about.

They just hot fixed the Chaos Storm bug so it no longer does 16k dmg per tic.

It’s possible for them to just jump in and quickly adjust the numbers, why then, are terrible skills/traits completely ignored? Why aren’t they just given some band aid fixes right away? I really don’t get it.

I apologize for my demands and frustration devs, but this sort of thing has been grating on me for a year now.

Kardis.3297:

Engineer is OP? too whom? they don’t even fit in the rock/paper/scissors. IF you remember the yearly stats, they are one of the least favored classes. So even when people try to decide on an alt, they don’t go, wow engie! thats a great idea.

Simply put, ele can put out clones that deal dmg, necro carries around tons of toys. but engineers ‘pets’ are so lame, all but 1(possibly 2) of the elite skills are completely worthless. If they nerf everyone for balance fine. but why are they finding new builds for the already ‘preferred’ damage classes when the least used classes lag even further behind as they ‘balance’ newly OP builds in already OP classes? A few (not all) of engie’s turrets should get slight nerfs ot dmg, and given mobility with tank treads or something. At least then, It’d make a little sense to have a turret build while running around.

P.S. That all being said screw the huge fail with chaos storm. So mad right now about wvw can’t even take a break to enjoy myself cause I’m still steaming. I feel angry and stupid that I bought gems yesterday now.

If you read my OP and what you took out of it was that I was saying engi is a more Op class than others then I dont know what to say to you other than you completely missed the point

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to jump in and say thanks for keeping things constructive!

The idea right now is to see how the current changes impact the meta, and then do another set of balance in an upcoming patch.

The trait facts were a lot of work, but the clarity they give you guys is VERY good for you. So we wanted to see if that would shake up trait builds at all in order to see how you guys adjusted. Once THAT settles, we want to make balance changes based off the meta at that time. We didn’t want to change all the trait facts and also add in a lot of balance changes on top of it.

We still did a lot of balance stuff, but we were careful not to go overboard with this patch. Just like we learned w/ the Warrior a few updates back, sometimes the meta can undergo drastic changes even if we do VERY little to impact the balance.

We’re planning on doing another round of updates to traits for every class (either changing #‘s, shifting tiers around to make more builds viable, or doing trait reworks), and we also have our eye on a few “apex” builds. But, again we don’t want to shave those too much.

Thanks again for the thoughts and feedback!

Chap + the balance tam

I only really have one point to make and its about thieves. The changes you guys made to LS hardly does anything. I am not saying there won’t be future changes, but 30 points into Acrobatics a thief can still spam dodge rolls, still have initiative for days, and still be able to poke and prod other classes like mesmers, eles etc while having endless amounts of disengage.

Personally, I am looking at S/P being a replacement since it has the opportunity to put out just as much, if not more, pressure as S/D and has basically the same; disengage, mobility, initiative regeneration (not the same initiative management), and nearly the same amount of dodges.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to jump in and say thanks for keeping things constructive!

The idea right now is to see how the current changes impact the meta, and then do another set of balance in an upcoming patch.

The trait facts were a lot of work, but the clarity they give you guys is VERY good for you. So we wanted to see if that would shake up trait builds at all in order to see how you guys adjusted. Once THAT settles, we want to make balance changes based off the meta at that time. We didn’t want to change all the trait facts and also add in a lot of balance changes on top of it.

We still did a lot of balance stuff, but we were careful not to go overboard with this patch. Just like we learned w/ the Warrior a few updates back, sometimes the meta can undergo drastic changes even if we do VERY little to impact the balance.

We’re planning on doing another round of updates to traits for every class (either changing #‘s, shifting tiers around to make more builds viable, or doing trait reworks), and we also have our eye on a few “apex” builds. But, again we don’t want to shave those too much.

Thanks again for the thoughts and feedback!

Chap + the balance tam

Well this confirms that you disagree with the majority of your competitive community. Most of whom quit. And people quit due to the meta. And that wasnt because “ele isnt viable nemore”. It was because every build was based on cheese, spam and brokenly powerful mechanics and synergies.

Your post confirms to anyone hoping the meta will improve that this is a completely false hope. You talk about shavings. This is ridiculous. Perma evasion/ai passive/condi spam type specs are not fun to play against. They need mega nerfs not small shavings

Ever fought a stun lock warrior or an evade thief? You literally might as well not be there as a good thief will teleport back and forth from a location that you cant see or interact with (on the up and down axis). It is so frustrating and lame.

These builds shackle the meta. But they also shaft all fun in the game. This is why people quit. They dont want to play a game filled with spam and just uncounterable skills and effects.

Really. If you dont wake up to this soon…..well…it is already dead this game. It wont improve.

Seconding this whole post. What I’d give for the early 2013 meta to come back without HGH and all these viable builds now instead of anet stubbornly refusing to nerf their silly kitten.