Guild Wars 2

people are starting to pick up on the thief glass cannon builds, and spvp is getting out of hand. in tpvp and 1v1, thieves are definitely manageable. in spvp where you have to survive multiple thieves backstabbing and heartseeking, it gets a little ridiculous. getting hit for 10k+ damage on my 1800 toughness and heavy armor is just plain nuts.

sad to say, but spvp is reaching WoW-esque proportions. im really concerned about the current lack of balance because there is simply too much to fix. as an avid pvp’er, my patience is just about spent, and i think i speak for many, many people =( good luck with this devs.

Yea hopefully they wont drop the ball on this one. I have 3k armor and i was backstabbed from 10-14k damage. That’s assuming you’re not under 50%. Arena net is really taking their time. tPvP teams are taking advantage of this because everyone is doing it. On top of the stealth exploit.

the most worrisome part is that this game is so far from tpvp-ready, it’s not even funny.

The funny part is on these forums is, if you get stomped by three thieves spamming HS, you are the noob.

yeah that is pretty funny. too bad thats not my problem >.<

in fact, i dont even have a problem. i can faceroll on my guardian main all day. just sharing my observations and concerns.

The game isn’t specifically balanced around 8v8…. people running 3 thiefs in a tpvp (5v5..) team would lose 100% of their team fights against any team orientated setup.

Find a group of 5 people and don’t base your forum pvp experiences solely around hotjoin. Hotjoin is a mess simply because of the numbers.

According to anet, balance is perfect and you all need to L2P. Their PvP blog proves it.

From the recent ranger nerf it appears the devs are now basing their class balancing decisions on animation glitches and whether an attack isn’t “the most fun gameplay”. That is a pretty worrisome development in my opinion.

@Hsulf
it doesnt matter that multi-thief comps arent as viable in tpvp. im commenting on how big of a mess spvp is.

in fact whole PvP is a bit of mess.. Yesterday i looked at an old GW1 game on youtube. kitten . it was so clear !! all the efect and animations. While in GW2 i see so nice effect but totaly confusing ones and big ones.
In GW1 we had a 7v7 flagstand fight and it was totally clear whats going on..
In GW2 i see 5v5 fight on keep or even 4v4 and its a big light show !

I blame the Mesmers and Guardians, Aragiel. :p j/k

That’s what i’ve been saying for weeks now. ArenaNet probably like those OP build Thieves, Warriors and Guardians are running around with.

They won’t balance a class around 8v8 which sPVP is. They will balance a class around 5v5 which tPVP is (and has been going on since launch). 8v8 is too chaotic with people constantly joining and leaving and no team work or unit cohesion.

If you want actually learn how to pvp in gW do tPVP, thieves are almost always a detriment to the group that they are on as they require someone to either be alone or incompetent.

I actually usually only see thieves in tPVP as a SB build utilizing Theifs Guild as an elite. Bout the only build I’ve been seeing lately.

Yes backstab hits too hard but one of the huge issues with thiefs is that they can get away with building glass cannons because of their downstate.

If you look at the 2 classes that are the best at glass cannons Mesmer and Theif. You can not stab stomp either class in a high level game because they will blink away. The thief will also be able to stealth.

So that leaves top level players with 2 options. Ignore the thief while he insta gibs someone with backstab and spams cluster bomb off point. Or go for the thief as he stealths and if you do get him down he will get rezzed because he can blink and stealth.

Swilo.6475:

Yes backstab hits too hard but one of the huge issues with thiefs is that they can get away with building glass cannons because of their downstate.

If you look at the 2 classes that are the best at glass cannons Mesmer and Theif. You can not stab stomp either class in a high level game because they will blink away. The thief will also be able to stealth.

So that leaves top level players with 2 options. Ignore the thief while he insta gibs someone with backstab and spams cluster bomb off point. Or go for the thief as he stealths and if you do get him down he will get rezzed because he can blink and stealth.

Whats also funny? Watching a 5v5 turn 5v4 when that entire group of 5 turn enmass to slaughter that thief. Bout the only time I use my moa. Theives tend to be like gnats..annoying till you swat them or in this case turn them into a bird so we can mop up their team. Theives built as glass cannons are not that big a threat once you lock him down for a 2 seconds. Have your DPS burst him and he’ll go splat faster than a….well you get the picture.

Swilo.6475:

Yes backstab hits too hard but one of the huge issues with thiefs is that they can get away with building glass cannons because of their downstate.

If you look at the 2 classes that are the best at glass cannons Mesmer and Theif. You can not stab stomp either class in a high level game because they will blink away. The thief will also be able to stealth.

So that leaves top level players with 2 options. Ignore the thief while he insta gibs someone with backstab and spams cluster bomb off point. Or go for the thief as he stealths and if you do get him down he will get rezzed because he can blink and stealth.

on a funny side note:
Elementalists worlwind thingy (forget the name off the top of my head) was fighting over a point against one and had three phantasms up and he pops that and destroys all three in one go. I stop what I’m doing and call him a son of a kitten I worked hard to get those up. He laughs…I turn his kitten into a bird. We both just stand there not attacking till it ends. I end up getting taken down by a warrior that comes to help but have a fun convo with him and even got him to switch servers and join my guild. Was the most fun I’ve had in a while. Even made a friend out of it.

1st off glass cannon thieves are extremely easy to kill if you know what to do and their down state abilities arent a problem at all just dont spend the 1st 5 seconds trying to stomp them, if you down them during a team fight the AOE brings them down quite a bit and their stealth is on a fairly long cooldown when they 1st get downed. 2nd the cloak and steal is not an exploit people need to understand that you can cast instants during a cast time like elementalists can and certain other classes. And if you guys ever played a thief they dont have any kind of utility compared to most classes so nerfing their glass cannon damage would make them completely useless and im pretty sure anet is trying to keep all classes on an even playing field. in order to get 10k+ backstabs is 100% cooldown based and cant happen all the time. the one thing i think they can change without destroying the thief class is taking the ability to use sigils while in stealth away that should stop the one shotting of low toughness classes but still allow enough damage to even be useful. Thieves are an assassin class which in any other mmo means quick burst damage and high mobility and with gw2 this means killing people extremely fast so there is no reason for everyone to be going crazy about this when its counterable. all the high skill tourny teams know how to do it and spvp isnt something to be basing this off.

Swilo.6475:

Yes backstab hits too hard but one of the huge issues with thiefs is that they can get away with building glass cannons because of their downstate.

If you look at the 2 classes that are the best at glass cannons Mesmer and Theif. You can not stab stomp either class in a high level game because they will blink away. The thief will also be able to stealth.

So that leaves top level players with 2 options. Ignore the thief while he insta gibs someone with backstab and spams cluster bomb off point. Or go for the thief as he stealths and if you do get him down he will get rezzed because he can blink and stealth.

This is true. The amount of time you have to spend to find the final resting spot of a thief or mesmer in downed state usually ends up with them killing someone and getting back up or just plain getting away. I honestly think for thief the one tele is enough, they don’t need the smoke too or they need to nerf the dmg on there auto attack because they can put out some serious dmg from downed still. Mesmer same deal with the clone and tele. It needs to be one interrupt and something else that won’t disrupt stomp.

Its funny how they get two ways to flat out interrupt your stomp as well as cause confusion in where the hell they actually are. Then you got suckers like rng and nec with only one interrupt who are basically guaranteed to eat dirt once they drop.

psyt.9415:

Swilo.6475:

Yes backstab hits too hard but one of the huge issues with thiefs is that they can get away with building glass cannons because of their downstate.

If you look at the 2 classes that are the best at glass cannons Mesmer and Theif. You can not stab stomp either class in a high level game because they will blink away. The thief will also be able to stealth.

So that leaves top level players with 2 options. Ignore the thief while he insta gibs someone with backstab and spams cluster bomb off point. Or go for the thief as he stealths and if you do get him down he will get rezzed because he can blink and stealth.

This is true. The amount of time you have to spend to find the final resting spot of a thief or mesmer in downed state usually ends up with them killing someone and getting back up or just plain getting away. I honestly think for thief the one tele is enough, they don’t need the smoke too or they need to nerf the dmg on there auto attack because they can put out some serious dmg from downed still. Mesmer same deal with the clone and tele. It needs to be one interrupt and something else that won’t disrupt stomp.

Its funny how they get two ways to flat out interrupt your stomp as well as cause confusion in where the hell they actually are. Then you got suckers like rng and nec with only one interrupt who are basically guaranteed to eat dirt once they drop.

You are forget that the necro has two heal skills…forget what ranger has…warrior has teh ability to get back up if you don’t down him fast enough. And that little glow ball the mesmers do…does crap damage. You do more from the confusion but it evens out. Not to mention it brings you out of stealth if you attack when you clone.

For those that are unaware…the 1 skill in downed state does damage and heals the necro…those red balls aren’t just for show.

Zachariel.5463:

Swilo.6475:

Yes backstab hits too hard but one of the huge issues with thiefs is that they can get away with building glass cannons because of their downstate.

If you look at the 2 classes that are the best at glass cannons Mesmer and Theif. You can not stab stomp either class in a high level game because they will blink away. The thief will also be able to stealth.

So that leaves top level players with 2 options. Ignore the thief while he insta gibs someone with backstab and spams cluster bomb off point. Or go for the thief as he stealths and if you do get him down he will get rezzed because he can blink and stealth.

Whats also funny? Watching a 5v5 turn 5v4 when that entire group of 5 turn enmass to slaughter that thief. Bout the only time I use my moa. Theives tend to be like gnats..annoying till you swat them or in this case turn them into a bird so we can mop up their team. Theives built as glass cannons are not that big a threat once you lock him down for a 2 seconds. Have your DPS burst him and he’ll go splat faster than a….well you get the picture.

I feel like you have never faced a top team with a good thief. The thief will stay in the back spamming cluster bomb until he sees an oppurtunity to gib someone. Turning the fight to a 5v4 in the theifs favor. If you do blow up the theif he will get rezzed because the tanks of the team can rezz while he blinks away. If you down a thief and he starts to get rezzed he can blink to interrupt the down but it will not interrupt the rezz.

If you don’t go for the thief he can shadow refuge a downed teamate. That coupled with a guardian doing an aoe block bug is a free rezz no matter what. But that is a whole different set of issues in its own.

There is a sync guild in NA where majority of the top teams sync ques to match up against each other. Of all the top teams 95% of them run a backstab thief, shatter mesmer, and bunker guardian.

Zachariel.5463:

psyt.9415:

Swilo.6475:

Yes backstab hits too hard but one of the huge issues with thiefs is that they can get away with building glass cannons because of their downstate.

If you look at the 2 classes that are the best at glass cannons Mesmer and Theif. You can not stab stomp either class in a high level game because they will blink away. The thief will also be able to stealth.

So that leaves top level players with 2 options. Ignore the thief while he insta gibs someone with backstab and spams cluster bomb off point. Or go for the thief as he stealths and if you do get him down he will get rezzed because he can blink and stealth.

This is true. The amount of time you have to spend to find the final resting spot of a thief or mesmer in downed state usually ends up with them killing someone and getting back up or just plain getting away. I honestly think for thief the one tele is enough, they don’t need the smoke too or they need to nerf the dmg on there auto attack because they can put out some serious dmg from downed still. Mesmer same deal with the clone and tele. It needs to be one interrupt and something else that won’t disrupt stomp.

Its funny how they get two ways to flat out interrupt your stomp as well as cause confusion in where the hell they actually are. Then you got suckers like rng and nec with only one interrupt who are basically guaranteed to eat dirt once they drop.

You are forget that the necro has two heal skills…forget what ranger has…warrior has teh ability to get back up if you don’t down him fast enough. And that little glow ball the mesmers do…does crap damage. You do more from the confusion but it evens out. Not to mention it brings you out of stealth if you attack when you clone.

For those that are unaware…the 1 skill in downed state does damage and heals the necro…those red balls aren’t just for show.

reread i’m talking about interrupting stomp here. If you are stomping me I hit fear then I go to life steal but that lifesteal don’t stop you from walking back up and stomping me again so I will die on that second attempt.

Mes and thief have their smoke / clone and the teles which both will stop a stomp attempt so they get to interrupt two stomp attempts plus the added confusion of not knowing where they moved to which adds travel time to run to them. do you see the issue ? A heal skill is not the same as a total loss of stomp ability.

This is all in the heat of battle, it makes it very hard to down them compared to everyone else unless you just start swinging at them but this takes longer and there could be other team mates of theirs beating on you at the same time. Then thief can hit 3 targets with his auto in downed so he has a pretty high chance to rally just from that even.

I decided to for facerolling with a backstab spec earlier. It’s pretty kitten sad let me tell you lol.

Find someone running to a point, cnd/steal/signetstab and they’re downed in 1 second.

Darn reply button disappeared again…now that is annoying

Anywho….

@Swilo-
In that situation it can be sticky, but you have to realize that each of the classes has utilities that can neutralize the thief or limit the damage his cluster will be doing. I tend to run combat medic as my mesmer depending on the group I am running with as we know how each other play. I also adjust my skills on the fly before going in and getting aggro. Sometimes I’m not fast enough in switching to skills that will help with ranged targets. You also have to realize that while he is spamming cluster..he is using initiative which limits his options until he has enough back and if he specced for prolonged inititive or gain more initiative while in stealth his DPS output will be lower than someone that is pure backstab build.

psyt.9415:

Zachariel.5463:

psyt.9415:

Swilo.6475:

Yes backstab hits too hard but one of the huge issues with thiefs is that they can get away with building glass cannons because of their downstate.

If you look at the 2 classes that are the best at glass cannons Mesmer and Theif. You can not stab stomp either class in a high level game because they will blink away. The thief will also be able to stealth.

So that leaves top level players with 2 options. Ignore the thief while he insta gibs someone with backstab and spams cluster bomb off point. Or go for the thief as he stealths and if you do get him down he will get rezzed because he can blink and stealth.

This is true. The amount of time you have to spend to find the final resting spot of a thief or mesmer in downed state usually ends up with them killing someone and getting back up or just plain getting away. I honestly think for thief the one tele is enough, they don’t need the smoke too or they need to nerf the dmg on there auto attack because they can put out some serious dmg from downed still. Mesmer same deal with the clone and tele. It needs to be one interrupt and something else that won’t disrupt stomp.

Its funny how they get two ways to flat out interrupt your stomp as well as cause confusion in where the hell they actually are. Then you got suckers like rng and nec with only one interrupt who are basically guaranteed to eat dirt once they drop.

You are forget that the necro has two heal skills…forget what ranger has…warrior has teh ability to get back up if you don’t down him fast enough. And that little glow ball the mesmers do…does crap damage. You do more from the confusion but it evens out. Not to mention it brings you out of stealth if you attack when you clone.

For those that are unaware…the 1 skill in downed state does damage and heals the necro…those red balls aren’t just for show.

reread i’m talking about interrupting stomp here. If you are stomping me I hit fear then I go to life steal but that lifesteal don’t stop you from walking back up and stomping me again so I will die on that second attempt.

Mes and thief have their smoke / clone and the teles which both will stop a stomp attempt so they get to interrupt two stomp attempts plus the added confusion of not knowing where they moved to which adds travel time to run to them. do you see the issue ? A heal skill is not the same as a total loss of stomp ability.

This is all in the heat of battle, it makes it very hard to down them compared to everyone else unless you just start swinging at them but this takes longer and there could be other team mates of theirs beating on you at the same time. Then thief can hit 3 targets with his auto in downed so he has a pretty high chance to rally just from that even.

You also have to decide whether stomping that player or capping that point is more important. In tPVP capping is more important. In sPVP…its a free for all with no coordination and you get more for capturing a point then you do for killing that player. Also it takes longer for a mesmer or thief to res himself than it does for you to cap a point. Just follow the clone bodies to the real one. It will have a red downed arrow above him. The clones do not.

Also to point out…you’ll have people beating on you if you are trying to stop him either way if they are around. You are a sitting duck when doing the animation for stomping.

Okay but the hierarchy of importance in capping a point doesn’t really address the fact that those two classes have an easier time getting up from downed than others do. Having people beating on me and being a sitting duck also doesn’t really address the fact that these two are still harder to stomp. Its not balanced that is my point.

psyt.9415:

Okay but the hierarchy of importance in capping a point doesn’t really address the fact that those two classes have an easier time getting up from downed than others do. Having people beating on me and being a sitting duck also doesn’t really address the fact that these two are still harder to stomp. Its not balanced that is my point.

You do realize that when someone says “Its too hard”, I (and many people on the forums) picture a little child whining to his mother that “Its too hard”. Sorry come up with a better argument. That is an instant gratification excuse, and frankly…is just whiney.

From what you and many people want (from reading the posts) is for everyone to have the same skills no matter what. Sorry but that doens’t make an interesting game. Thats like telling someone to walk across the yard and calling it fun. Now if you put a moat with alligators in and tell them to get to the other side…now THAT is entertainment.

OOO or brain eating Amoebas…we can take bets on when he drops dead.

He he,

and I just dropped the Backstab build after playing it for roughly a month because of it’s poor survivability.

I guess I’m a Hipster.

psyt.9415:

Okay but the hierarchy of importance in capping a point doesn’t really address the fact that those two classes have an easier time getting up from downed than others do. Having people beating on me and being a sitting duck also doesn’t really address the fact that these two are still harder to stomp. Its not balanced that is my point.

And for all that is good and holy..please tell where it says they get up faster than any other class. It just isn’t so. Warriors…you don’t stomp them fast enough and they get up on their own in 15 seconds. Guardians can call a sigel that (If I remember right..been a couple weeks since i play him) amplies their healing so they heal faster not to mention knocking you back. That little displacement that theives and mesmers get…is random on where it sends them. You are LUCKY if it gets you away from the group. 90% of the time…it sticks your happy kitten right smack dab in the middle of them…so when you pop out of stealth..you get to say hello to Mr. Pointy.

Zachariel.5463:

Darn reply button disappeared again…now that is annoying

Anywho….

@Swilo-
In that situation it can be sticky, but you have to realize that each of the classes has utilities that can neutralize the thief or limit the damage his cluster will be doing. I tend to run combat medic as my mesmer depending on the group I am running with as we know how each other play. I also adjust my skills on the fly before going in and getting aggro. Sometimes I’m not fast enough in switching to skills that will help with ranged targets. You also have to realize that while he is spamming cluster..he is using initiative which limits his options until he has enough back and if he specced for prolonged inititive or gain more initiative while in stealth his DPS output will be lower than someone that is pure backstab build.

Steal-0 initiative
Cloak and Dagger-6 initiative
Backstab- 0 initiative

It requires so little initiative to pull that combo off. So what do you to “neutralize” the thief?

Swilo.6475:

Zachariel.5463:

Darn reply button disappeared again…now that is annoying

Anywho….

@Swilo-
In that situation it can be sticky, but you have to realize that each of the classes has utilities that can neutralize the thief or limit the damage his cluster will be doing. I tend to run combat medic as my mesmer depending on the group I am running with as we know how each other play. I also adjust my skills on the fly before going in and getting aggro. Sometimes I’m not fast enough in switching to skills that will help with ranged targets. You also have to realize that while he is spamming cluster..he is using initiative which limits his options until he has enough back and if he specced for prolonged inititive or gain more initiative while in stealth his DPS output will be lower than someone that is pure backstab build.

Steal-0 initiative
Cloak and Dagger-6 initiative
Backstab- 0 initiative

It requires so little initiative to pull that combo off. So what do you to “neutralize” the thief?

Well it takes 3 initiative to use cluster making it not very cost effective to the thief specially if I catch him casting it and use feedback not to mention theives auto very quickly so he’ll be doing more damage to himself. He’ll need to heal up first..not to mention any initiative he wasted using cluster so he’ll need to get it back up in order to be affective (again depending if he was straight back stab build and not specced for increased initiative).

Or i COULD just bypass all that…moa the little bugger and take him out of the fight entirely for a time. But then again moa doesn’t bring anything to the group as a whole and TW does so much nice things specially in large groups. I mean you have a combo field (which counts for ethereal). Now if he came for me, keeping an eye on my health is essential and timing important as he will always ALWAYS use steal to get up close and if he specced for stealth on steal he’ll go straight for a back stab followed by cloak and dagger followed by another back stab. As soon as your health drops from the initial steal (lets face it all thieves tend to spec for mug…predictability at its best) dodge/phase shift/mirror images/decoy breaking his burst and if I decoyed well he just C/D the clone wasting 6 intitiative. Stun him using signet of domination (or use daze from clones if i’m feeling festive and to save the signet for when the daze wears off) burst his happy kitten down. What I also could have done was use distortion shatter as the don’t need to run to me making me invulnerable for up to 3 seconds and in that time that rogue could have and would have burned his entire rotation not realizign I can’t be harmed. I do enjoy doing that. Always makes me giggle when i get teh WTF message from them.

psyt.9415:

Zachariel.5463:

psyt.9415:

Swilo.6475:

Yes backstab hits too hard but one of the huge issues with thiefs is that they can get away with building glass cannons because of their downstate.

If you look at the 2 classes that are the best at glass cannons Mesmer and Theif. You can not stab stomp either class in a high level game because they will blink away. The thief will also be able to stealth.

So that leaves top level players with 2 options. Ignore the thief while he insta gibs someone with backstab and spams cluster bomb off point. Or go for the thief as he stealths and if you do get him down he will get rezzed because he can blink and stealth.

This is true. The amount of time you have to spend to find the final resting spot of a thief or mesmer in downed state usually ends up with them killing someone and getting back up or just plain getting away. I honestly think for thief the one tele is enough, they don’t need the smoke too or they need to nerf the dmg on there auto attack because they can put out some serious dmg from downed still. Mesmer same deal with the clone and tele. It needs to be one interrupt and something else that won’t disrupt stomp.

Its funny how they get two ways to flat out interrupt your stomp as well as cause confusion in where the hell they actually are. Then you got suckers like rng and nec with only one interrupt who are basically guaranteed to eat dirt once they drop.

You are forget that the necro has two heal skills…forget what ranger has…warrior has teh ability to get back up if you don’t down him fast enough. And that little glow ball the mesmers do…does crap damage. You do more from the confusion but it evens out. Not to mention it brings you out of stealth if you attack when you clone.

For those that are unaware…the 1 skill in downed state does damage and heals the necro…those red balls aren’t just for show.

reread i’m talking about interrupting stomp here. If you are stomping me I hit fear then I go to life steal but that lifesteal don’t stop you from walking back up and stomping me again so I will die on that second attempt.

Mes and thief have their smoke / clone and the teles which both will stop a stomp attempt so they get to interrupt two stomp attempts plus the added confusion of not knowing where they moved to which adds travel time to run to them. do you see the issue ? A heal skill is not the same as a total loss of stomp ability.

This is all in the heat of battle, it makes it very hard to down them compared to everyone else unless you just start swinging at them but this takes longer and there could be other team mates of theirs beating on you at the same time. Then thief can hit 3 targets with his auto in downed so he has a pretty high chance to rally just from that even.

Just throwing this out, Smoke Bomb doesn’t interrupt stomps. I’ve been stomped plenty of times while steathed. If thief stealthed out if your stomp, he/she must have saved his/her shadow step. When a thief is downed, he/she has 4 skills. The attack skill and shadowstep are immediately available and the smoke bomb’s on cooldown. The shadow step is a ground target teleport, (similar to thier shortbow 5 skill) and the smoke bomb is the stealth. And that stealth is just like every other stealth. The thief is still hitable and it doesn’t interrupt channels. The only way smoke bomb possibly avoid a stomp is if the thief is traited to blind on stealth, and that’s just a hypothesis. I don’t know if blindness effects stomps.

@ Duel

You also might want to point out (as my reply button is broken) that the mesmers Clone and teleport are the same skill and are on (if i remember right) a 12 second CD giving the other team ample time to stomp the mesmer again. Very rarely do I have time to clone again. That only happens if someone is taking their sweet time killing me. Which is just as annoying.

Classes are different… RAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!

in fact, i dont even have a problem. i can faceroll on my guardian main all day. just sharing my observations and concerns.

I do pretty well on my Elementalist as well, and as I’m bunker specced, I don’t die to the dreaded backstab combo that often.

That being said, the TRUE problem with 50% of every kitten match being theives these days is just that it’s making sPvP predictable, lame, and downright unfun.

Find a group of 5 people and don’t base your forum pvp experiences solely around hotjoin. Hotjoin is a mess simply because of the numbers.

While this is true, does this not present a huge, HUGE problem. sPvP is the bread and butter of the PvP in this game, far more people participate in it than tPvP (I’m not getting into WvW here).
When the day comes that sPvP matches consist entirely of thieves and mesmers, you’re typical player will just quit and uninstall, as the game will have become stale.

problem with thieves in spvp is that they can unload a boatload of DPS, and disappear, almost indefinitely. kinda like WoW rogues all over again.

as squared mentioned, spvp IS the bread and butter of this game’s pvp, and balancing things just around the tpvp elite is foolish.

Zachariel.5463:

psyt.9415:

Okay but the hierarchy of importance in capping a point doesn’t really address the fact that those two classes have an easier time getting up from downed than others do. Having people beating on me and being a sitting duck also doesn’t really address the fact that these two are still harder to stomp. Its not balanced that is my point.

You do realize that when someone says “Its too hard”, I (and many people on the forums) picture a little child whining to his mother that “Its too hard”. Sorry come up with a better argument. That is an instant gratification excuse, and frankly…is just whiney.

From what you and many people want (from reading the posts) is for everyone to have the same skills no matter what. Sorry but that doens’t make an interesting game. Thats like telling someone to walk across the yard and calling it fun. Now if you put a moat with alligators in and tell them to get to the other side…now THAT is entertainment.

OOO or brain eating Amoebas…we can take bets on when he drops dead.

This is the most kitten argument ever. What people want is to be able to down a thief like they can down anyone else. The whole ‘well thief doesn’t have an interrupt’ crap doesn’t fly either. Who needs an interrupt when you made someone run through the whole downing animation, just to have them teleport somewhere else? Now, with mesmers this is where your trouble ends, just down the newly spawned mes. However, with thieves I have to go through the whole downing animation all over again just to have a smoke bomb pop and miss, again. I’m sure everyone attacking me will wait patiently while I give the whole ‘third time’s the charm’ adage a go. I main an engineer, I technically have 2 interrupts, but after using my first one, if you hop up and go to down me again, game over. Thieves are the only class that make it so it takes a good 10+ seconds to down them. We don’t want all classes to be the same, we want all classes to be on a somewhat even playing field, especially when it comes to the downed state. We finally caught the kittens, let us finish them lol

Not to mention stability stomps will basically ignore any interrupts other than mesmers and thieves.

Zachariel.5463:

You are forget that the necro has two heal skills…forget what ranger has…warrior has teh ability to get back up if you don’t down him fast enough. And that little glow ball the mesmers do…does crap damage. You do more from the confusion but it evens out. Not to mention it brings you out of stealth if you attack when you clone.

For those that are unaware…the 1 skill in downed state does damage and heals the necro…those red balls aren’t just for show.

Enough healing to not even negate the life loss just being in the downed state, scary. Not to mention their dreaded #3: AoE poison!

Necro downed state? Seriously? Fear is the ONLY good part of it.

If you have Lightning Flash up and need a faster stomp on a Thief, turn your camera to the direction they’re facing. Start the stomp, when they blink, blink back on top of them. Requires some speed, but can be done. Thieves also have an easy time with targeted shadowsteps (steal, I-Strike), and I think the same can be said for Guardians teleport Meditation. Mesmers can also use the blink trick like Eles can.

First, if you find the game unbalanced, once, just once, search for a tanky build for your class, or figure it out yourself…

Then setup this build and go spvp … Now go tank the wannabe burst builds and /laugh.
Oh you will still die to good ones, but I guess it will open your eyes as you will win 80% of your 1v1 with ease.
And you can do it with any class, no need to be uber bunker or whatever.

OK .. now for lol’ing .. Lets see how it was with old and more recent games :

- Anarchy Online :
The tank class (soldier/enforcer) has also the best burst damage. kthx
The rogue class, called Agent, was a stealthed sniper oneshooting people from max range. When I didnt feel like sniping people, I could just mimic any other class and use their skills.
For analogy, I would still be a rogue but I could mimic a necro and use their skills and pets, or mimic a guardian ^^ Then I could just switch back to rogue anytime I wanted to. So kitten

- Daoc
Hunter/Archers .. Same deal 1 or 2-shoting people at max range + stealth for safety :p
Ok they got nerfed/destroyed fast
But there was fotm too, on midgard my group was of course a kittenist chain of zerker/savage with half the group as support/cc, aoe mez (immobilise+daze, long duration or until attacked) helps “assistchain-oneshooting 20 people one by one” while the rest of their zerg is reduced to watching in disbelief.
Depending on the era, you had always a couple class/combo becoming suddently completely op.

- Wow
Easy example again, I was undead rogue engineer … PvP at his greatest.
- perma stealth and highest burst ambush / backstab combo (same result as steal/cnd/backstab here)
- high sustained dps with semi spammable combo builder / combo finisher
- mez/stun/blind + engineer charm (take control of your opponent, yes for real lol you couldnt use his skills though, but the AI would use the skills randomly like a pet) …. you name it, all the cc you want, I could lock 3 people and kill them one by one. I mean I would do it in middle of their town and guards and whatever number of other players around…
Ahh Southshore town, camping flypath / tavern (I always found it funny how people go at the tavern to afk a few) ^^
- oh almost forgot .. immune fear
- vanish for when the kitten hits the fan (break cc+ insta stealth)
- insta full energy (initiative) for when you need to spam harder
- speed buff
and probably forgetting some ^^
Edited while checking spelling: Of course yes, I forgot the insta reset all rogue cooldowns, for the famous : ambush/backstab/energy/vanish/ambush/backstab/resetcooldown/rinse/repeat
4x steal/cnd/backstab combo while stealthing in and out .. you would only do that to people you dont like.

Another funny with the engineer charm helmet : from time to time we would face some rival guilds in the big zerg battleground, Alterac Valley ?
Once I went in middle of the zerg and charmed with my helmet one of their officers. Then I miraculously managed to escape alive with my new pet following me .. and all their zerg force trying to kill me / rescue their officer.
When the charm spell broke, I was kinda out of the ennemy zerg, and someone on TS yelled :
“Come on !! Come on !!! Someone take Over !!” (the charm spell was like 3 mins or 5 mins cooldown)
Promptly 2-3 engineer from my guild took over, chain charming him when the spell would break … So we slowly managed to escort our prisoner right in middle of our zerg force.
I let you imagine the chatlog
Really so funny, and people cry for moa ?

Rift:
I reckon my champion combo was pretty deadly glasscannon, but who cares being a glasscannon when you aoe oneshoot people (it was bullrush + aoe 100blades basically mixing skills and temp buffs, except it was not in 10 hits, just bullrush and BAM!) and aoe fear if it does not fully work ? hehe
But many others were fun too, mage instagibbing anyone by pressing 1 key while being not so far from bunker status :p

I could go through all games like this and, but wanted to share a couple examples, only a couple op builds among many others.

TL/DR:
Believe me, in this game the balance is really not that bad.

oops didnt see that was so long post.. but i think its funny if you dare to read it hehe

Animosity.5231:

If you have Lightning Flash up and need a faster stomp on a Thief, turn your camera to the direction they’re facing. Start the stomp, when they blink, blink back on top of them. Requires some speed, but can be done. Thieves also have an easy time with targeted shadowsteps (steal, I-Strike), and I think the same can be said for Guardians teleport Meditation. Mesmers can also use the blink trick like Eles can.

I was testing the blink before hand but by starting a down then teleporting to a different downed player, it doesn’t work. But by accident yesterday when trying out my new build in mists, I tapped blink instead of armour of earth and rocked up on the other side of the warrior npc and still downed him. Also, when thieves blink away, sometimes they don’t go far enough and you still finish them, same goes with Mesmer. Hopefully everyone knows that with a Mesmer the one with the red ( v ) above their head is the real one. Also, unless changed recently, you can deselect target and the real Mesmer is the one with the name, the reset are clones (similar to mirror images in wow). But spotting the real Mesmer isn’t all that hard, its the one not auto attacking you :p.

How to fix thieves downed state? Swap 2 with the elementalist, problem solved, they can have a crappy (bugged doesn’t activate till a second after used) immobilize + stealth and we can have teleport + mist form.

“First, if you find the game unbalanced, once, just once, search for a tanky build for your class, or figure it out yourself…
Then setup this build and go spvp … Now go tank the wannabe burst builds and /laugh.
Oh you will still die to good ones, but I guess it will open your eyes as you will win 80% of your 1v1 with ease.
And you can do it with any class, no need to be uber bunker or whatever.”

That’s right, if you want to enjoy PvP, kitten your class’s damage and spend your time winning battles by attrition. Instafix!

the point is somtimes its unavoidable and getting crit for 10 – 14 k with back stab usually followed up with heart seeker spam is completly imbalanced and most thieves no matter the gear quality will do it

I’ve limited my PvP down to one or two matches of sPvP a day, maybe a couple more depending on the thief turn out. Otherwise I’ve started enjoying the PvE side of the game and am working my way to 80 to play in some WvW. Looking quite forward to that, actually.