Guild Wars 2

Hello!

So I have finally managed to make video about a issue with thief that a lot of people either seem to be unaware of, or maybe opposite to me, doesnt think it matters that much.

I would be glad if you could take two minutes and watch this VIDEO, and give your opinion on the topic. But before you do, I’ll give you a disclaimer about the horrific video quality, though it is what I am able to play with on this trusty laptop. The audio is there though, and if my english is beyond comprehension, there’s also some subtitles for you.

Some points to be regarded and discussed;

• Was this maybe intended for the thief? Why is that so?

• Heartseeker is the only spell where the initiative loss applies.

• Should it be like that for all weapon cast-time weapon skills?

• Yes?
• No?
• Why?

Please, try to keep the thread constructive and on a decent level of seriousness. Keep to the topic of the initative system regarding interrupts. There is a lot more to that system, like not being affected by chill and such, but hey, let’s save that for another thread shall we?

Thank you in advance!
/nyqwist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Jd9u345w8

Edit 1;

Here a idea;
When a weapon-skill gets interrupted the thief looses;
X * 4 = [Intiative Lost]
X = [10s of Initative Regeneration] / 10 * 4
I’m not sure if this is the correct way to show it so to say, but this basicly means that when you have a cast time interrupted, you loose the corresponding initative that you would gain during the 4 seconds of cooldown you have on a skill when interrupted.

Well, the same system should apply to all weapon sets, but this problem is probably caused by the skill being toggled twice, so they prolly forgot to implement the initiative loss mechanics to it altogether… Nerf thief please.

It seems kind of like a bug that the interupt doesn’t cost initiative on other skills than hs, hopefully it gets fixed during the next balance patch, because it’s way too forgiving the way it is.

Despite the video quality you were very articulate and showed the problems well. High Five! (borat voice)

There is some odd-behavior for abilities like Dragons Tooth too where if it gets interrupted it still goes on full cooldown. That’s only 2 seconds longer though so hardly noticeable especially since I usually rotate out of fire very quickly.

Nice to see such an educational post and vidja around these parts.

Thank you for the posts, Karsaib, Shad and Phanta!

I’m hoping to bring some attention to this as there’s so much focus on specificly pistolwhip right now, some more actually fundamental mechanics might be forgotten.

I personally think that implementing some kind of initiative loss would present more counterplay against thieves.

And for the people who are really effing upset about pistol whip and seems to think it is the only think making thief what is right now, think about it this way;

You can no longer cancel the cast time of pistol whip without not loosing the initative. You have to be more precise and careful about when you press the button, compared to what it is right now. It’s a start, aint it?

This bug or mechanic whatever you want to call it has potential to be changed in order to make thief’s less spamy and make counter play by well timed cc’s more rewarding. Good post and I hope Arenanet will look into this and discuss with the community on how to “fix” this “bug”.

This is working as intended. Skills only go on full cooldown if they are interrupted after an effect takes place. This is why most heals only go on a short cooldown while shelter/ether renewal etc go on full cooldown if interrupted. The same applies to churning earth—although the blast is delayed, it immediately applies a cripple field and thus gets a full cd if interrupted. The dragon tooth thing is a bug* (it only has a 6s cd anyway though)

Part of the effect of heartseeker is the movement ability. This is why initiative is subtracted immediately upon activation and not upon completion

Thank you for calling attention to this bug. I hope it gets fixed soon. If a fix would go along with a slight increase of initiative cost of certain skills it should be a nice way to shave the class and add some legit counterplay against nonasuras.

ens.9854:

This is working as intended. Skills only go on full cooldown if they are interrupted after an effect takes place. This is why most heals only go on a 5 second cooldown while shelter/ether renewal etc go on full cooldown if interrupted. The same applies to churning earth—although the blast is delayed, it immediately applies a cripple field and thus gets a full cd if interrupted. The dragon tooth thing is a bug*

Part of the effect of heartseeker is the movement ability. This is why initiative is subtracted immediately upon activation and not upon completion

I see what you mean here mate. But if you think that it is working as intended, do you also think that a 3s cooldown should not be there when other professions try to cast a weapon skill and gets interrupetd, for example cleansing wave of the elementalist? Why is everything so inconsistent, so to say?

Basicly, according to your reasoning, there should be no 3s-cooldown when a skill that does not have a effect whilst being channeled is interrupted, and if one does, it should go on “full” cooldown.

Should;

A; Those kind of weapon skills, like cleansing wave for an example, go on NO cooldown since thieves does not loose ANY intiative when a skill like that is interrupted,

or

B; Should the intiative that it took to activate the skill be lost?

I think, you could only pick one option in this case.

ens.9854:

This is working as intended. Skills only go on full cooldown if they are interrupted after an effect takes place. This is why most heals only go on a short cooldown while shelter/ether renewal etc go on full cooldown if interrupted. The same applies to churning earth—although the blast is delayed, it immediately applies a cripple field and thus gets a full cd if interrupted. The dragon tooth thing is a bug* (it only has a 6s cd anyway though)

Part of the effect of heartseeker is the movement ability. This is why initiative is subtracted immediately upon activation and not upon completion

Yep

Interupt work only vs spell with CD and channel cast, no vs isnta cast spells. When you interupt channel Thief spell Thief lose initiative. Thief has two chanell spells who cost innitiative (Unload and Pisolwhip) interupt works only vs Unload because PistolWhip has evade effect.

Thats all and no this is not bug.

Evilek.5690:

ens.9854:

This is working as intended. Skills only go on full cooldown if they are interrupted after an effect takes place. This is why most heals only go on a short cooldown while shelter/ether renewal etc go on full cooldown if interrupted. The same applies to churning earth—although the blast is delayed, it immediately applies a cripple field and thus gets a full cd if interrupted. The dragon tooth thing is a bug* (it only has a 6s cd anyway though)

Part of the effect of heartseeker is the movement ability. This is why initiative is subtracted immediately upon activation and not upon completion

Yep

Interupt work only vs spell with CD and channel cast, no vs isnta cast spells. When you interupt channel Thief spell Thief lose initiative. Thief has two chanell spells who cost innitiative (Unload and Pisolwhip) interupt works only vs Unload because PistolWhip has evade effect.

Thats all and no this is not bug.

Well maybe I got it wrong when I said “channel”, I meant more specificly so called “cast time”. Look at my posts above and you should hopefully understand what I mean

Honestly it seems like too much of a corner case for it to matter much… The only devastating pure interrupts are on heals or potentially ele skills since they lose access once they swap attunement.

Truthfully I don’t see what you are trying to accomplish. Interrupts are very unskilled and this would often just make them “interrupt foe and drain their initiative” which is absurdly more powerful against thieves than any other class.

Thieves rely on being able to use single skills many times per fight and within that space they are already fairly balanced—I don’t think upsetting things by suddenly giving them random cooldowns is the answer. If a skill is too strong, bring down the skill not the entire class

ens.9854:

Thieves rely on being able to use single skills many times per fight and within that space they are already fairly balanced—I don’t think upsetting things by suddenly giving them random cooldowns is the answer. If a skill is too strong, bring down the skill not the entire class

Sadly this is true at the moment, thieves do rely on being able to use single skills many times per fight. This is called spamming, this is what a lot of people think is the issue with the game.

You’re saying that this little “but or not” is unimportant, but i think changing would also present change in gameplay for thieves. Even though you rely on having to active your skills many times, one can do it good, and one can do it bad. And the consequence of doing it bad would also result in a lack of initative, and with that, survivability.

We can make thief what it is supposed to be, harder to play, more punishing and also by that, more rewarding.

:facepalm:

so they are uninterruptable after all…

ens.9854:

This is working as intended. Skills only go on full cooldown if they are interrupted after an effect takes place. This is why most heals only go on a short cooldown while shelter/ether renewal etc go on full cooldown if interrupted. The same applies to churning earth—although the blast is delayed, it immediately applies a cripple field and thus gets a full cd if interrupted. The dragon tooth thing is a bug* (it only has a 6s cd anyway though)

Part of the effect of heartseeker is the movement ability. This is why initiative is subtracted immediately upon activation and not upon completion

it should be either short cd or init loss. else thief gets interrupt immunity.

This was a very articulate, well thought-out, and clearly demonstrated argument, nyqwist. Thank you for putting this together.

For those arguing that there should be no init loss because interrupts are too “easy,” I whole-heartedly disagree. This is a case where using an interrupt on a skill must be timed and executed skillfully on the proper high-initiative skill to cause punishment. If I interrupt, for instance, just 1 heartseeker, they lose 3 init – no big deal. If I interrupt black-powder and they lose 6 init, all of a sudden it hurts a whole lot more. Mind you, this is timing it such that you interrupt a skill with a 1/2s cast time (no easy feat).

There is no reason why thieves should be immune to the punishing effects of interrupts on their skills, as well as immune to important effects of chill, as well as being immune to the necessity for the need for LOS on skill like ports, on top of the incredible strengths they have. Instituting an init loss would be great thing.

If only we could also fix cancel-casting (not thief specific mind you), that would be a great thing…

I also dont regard this mechanics as balanced.
However, I dont think, that fixing this, might solve the problem.
The interrupt mechanics works on Heartseeker.
Regarding Pistol Whip and Lancerous Strike, I think, part of the problem is, that it is extremly hard to interrupt those skills, as they are evades.

Nevertheless, there should be some kind of punishment for thieves, if their skills get interrupted.

Phantaram.1265:

Despite the video quality you were very articulate and showed the problems well. High Five! (borat voice)

There is some odd-behavior for abilities like Dragons Tooth too where if it gets interrupted it still goes on full cooldown. That’s only 2 seconds longer though so hardly noticeable especially since I usually rotate out of fire very quickly.

Nice to see such an educational post and vidja around these parts.

I pretty much echo this, nice

bp should be interruptable. in fact, i would make a case that as a general principle making cd (skill #5) for any profession well animated and counterable is one way to make game less spammy and more skillful.

I think you’re right OP, this is probably a bug. That being said, thief has been balanced around this for over a year. It would simply be unfair to fix it and leave it at that.

I still support them nerfing the kitten out of PW though

Here a idea;

When a weapon-skill gets interrupted the thief looses;

X * 4 = [Intiative Lost]

X = [10s of Initative Regeneration] / 10 * 4

I’m not sure if this is the correct way to show it so to say, but this basicly means that when you have a cast time interrupted, you loose the corresponding initative that you would gain during the 4 seconds of cooldown you have on a skill when interrupted.

nyqwist.2360:

Here a idea;

When a weapon-skill gets interrupted the thief looses;

X * 4 = [Intiative Lost]

X = [10s of Initative Regeneration] / 10 * 4

I’m not sure if this is the correct way to show it so to say, but this basicly means that when you have a cast time interrupted, you loose the corresponding initative that you would gain during the 4 seconds of cooldown you have on a skill when interrupted.

You do not understand the initiative mechanics.Thief use initiative on “ALL” weapon set skills no on only “ONE”. When you intertupt cast on all other skills = “ONLY” interuptetd skills has 4 sec CD no “ALL” other skills.

Your suggestion
When we interupted cast on Thief weapon skills,Thief lose skill cost initiative ===> We apply initiative cost CD on ALL OTHER THIEF WEAPON SET SKILLS no on ONLY ONE because “ALL” Thief weapons skills “COST INITIATIVE”

Sorry but this is really dumb suggestion

Honestly the cries for thief nerfs are getting over the top. We’re almost as bad as rangers with recent nerfs, and for some reason we’re seeing more QQ. Hammer warriors already counter thieves very well with the lack of stability, and a thief already loses initiative, essentially putting the skill on cooldown. The thing about initiative is that it teaches one to manage it and when you’ve run out, you’re essentially dead.

Keep constant pressure on the thief, and force him to blow his initiative. Interrupts are a part of this process, and dodging/invuln/blind also cost the full initiative of the skill. If a thief spams, he’s out of the fight and you’ve got the opportunity to get the kill. The trick to fighting thieves is through attrition, which is the entire point of initiative. If you want to make this change to thieves, you’ve got to give them access to copious amounts of stability rather than blindly nerfing them because you refuse to L2P.

~Glïnt

Viking Jorun.5413:

Honestly the cries for thief nerfs are getting over the top. We’re almost as bad as rangers with recent nerfs, and for some reason we’re seeing more QQ. Hammer warriors already counter thieves very well with the lack of stability, and a thief already loses initiative, essentially putting the skill on cooldown. The thing about initiative is that it teaches one to manage it and when you’ve run out, you’re essentially dead.

Keep constant pressure on the thief, and force him to blow his initiative. Interrupts are a part of this process, and dodging/invuln/blind also cost the full initiative of the skill. If a thief spams, he’s out of the fight and you’ve got the opportunity to get the kill. The trick to fighting thieves is through attrition, which is the entire point of initiative. If you want to make this change to thieves, you’ve got to give them access to copious amounts of stability rather than blindly nerfing them because you refuse to L2P.

~Glïnt

lol.

Thanks for pointing out this bug! I wonder if Anet will bother to change it.

Well, we don’t really know if it’s a bug, but it is something that seems to be very unclear. I also think this would shave down the thieves pressure in general, which fits the philosophy that A-Net has.

Hopefully a game designer, or Holy Grouch will descend from the heavens and bring clarity

They went over it before a long time ago in a post about shelter, using churning earth as an example.

Thief skills only deduct initiative once the skill has produced some “effect”. None of the thief skills defy this rule. Other professions getting a small CD on their skills also does not equate to a thief losing all the initiative required

What I find more broken in that video is that said thief interrupting you can do so 3-4 times in a row.

Most classes at best get 2 interrupts on 30+ sec cd’s.

Zenith.7301:

What I find more broken in that video is that said thief interrupting you can do so 3-4 times in a row.

Most classes at best get 2 interrupts on 30+ sec cd’s.

Stun=Daze=knockdown=Launch all this effect make interupt

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daze
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knock_down
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Launch

Warrior,Mesmer,Thief,Elementalist,Engineer etc can you interupted 4+ in a row no only Thief.

1) Learn the mechanics of this game
2)Now you are qualified to write on the forum

Zenith.7301:

What I find more broken in that video is that said thief interrupting you can do so 3-4 times in a row.

Most classes at best get 2 interrupts on 30+ sec cd’s.

Ever met a turret Engie with APT or a blackout mesmer? Thief looks like every other class when compared to those two and the amount of CC they have.

Evilek.5690:

Zenith.7301:

What I find more broken in that video is that said thief interrupting you can do so 3-4 times in a row.

Most classes at best get 2 interrupts on 30+ sec cd’s.

Stun=Daze=knockdown=Launch all this effect make interupt

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daze
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knock_down
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Launch

Warrior,Mesmer,Thief,Elementalist,Engineer etc can you interupted 4+ in a row no only Thief.

1) Learn the mechanics of this game
2)Now you are qualified to write on the forum

Learn to not be stupid for once. All those classes in order to interrupt 3-4 times have to choose weapons that are only good for that, suck offensively, and in general those builds are not viable and have much longer cooldowns than a thief interrupting.

Tell me which viable ele spec can easily interrupt attack from range several times and still burst people down.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Zenith.7301:

What I find more broken in that video is that said thief interrupting you can do so 3-4 times in a row.

Most classes at best get 2 interrupts on 30+ sec cd’s.

Ever met a turret Engie with APT or a blackout mesmer? Thief looks like every other class when compared to those two and the amount of CC they have.

Rarely, because those builds are nowhere near as good as the alternatives. Since when are blackout mesmers even generally useful in spvp or wvw.

Turret engineers only work on a point, whereas the thief can interrupt from range and his utility isn’t stationary. Turret engineers also only exist in spvp. D/P and S/P thieves exist in both wvw and spvp.

Zenith.7301:

Evilek.5690:

Zenith.7301:

What I find more broken in that video is that said thief interrupting you can do so 3-4 times in a row.

Most classes at best get 2 interrupts on 30+ sec cd’s.

Stun=Daze=knockdown=Launch all this effect make interupt

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daze
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knock_down
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Launch

Warrior,Mesmer,Thief,Elementalist,Engineer etc can you interupted 4+ in a row no only Thief.

1) Learn the mechanics of this game
2)Now you are qualified to write on the forum

Learn to not be stupid for once. All those classes in order to interrupt 3-4 times have to choose weapons that are only good for that, suck offensively, and in general those builds are not viable and have much longer cooldowns than a thief interrupting.

Tell me which viable ele spec can easily interrupt attack from range several times and still burst people down.

Thief has to choose offhand pistol and/or trait 30 into trickery, losing out on a ton of defense to do so. Your point is still moot. If you’re tired of being interrupted by a thief, grab some reflects. Instead of whining about a class, learn to counter them and build around that counter concept.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Zenith.7301:

Evilek.5690:

Zenith.7301:

What I find more broken in that video is that said thief interrupting you can do so 3-4 times in a row.

Most classes at best get 2 interrupts on 30+ sec cd’s.

Stun=Daze=knockdown=Launch all this effect make interupt

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daze
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knock_down
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Launch

Warrior,Mesmer,Thief,Elementalist,Engineer etc can you interupted 4+ in a row no only Thief.

1) Learn the mechanics of this game
2)Now you are qualified to write on the forum

Learn to not be stupid for once. All those classes in order to interrupt 3-4 times have to choose weapons that are only good for that, suck offensively, and in general those builds are not viable and have much longer cooldowns than a thief interrupting.

Tell me which viable ele spec can easily interrupt attack from range several times and still burst people down.

Thief has to choose offhand pistol and/or trait 30 into trickery, losing out on a ton of defense to do so. Your point is still moot. If you’re tired of being interrupted by a thief, grab some reflects. Instead of whining about a class, learn to counter them and build around that counter concept.

Oh poor thieves, having to choose their strongest offhand weapon.

All classes obviously have copious amounts of reflection and plenty of utility slots to fit it in place of the already mandatory utilities they need to survive since they dont get their burst and defense gifted to them on their weaponsets unlike black powder and backstab.

How about we ban you from playing thief and force you to play ele and mesmers and non-bunker rangers against thieves as your sole pvp experience. Let’s see how that “learn to counter” tune of yours last.

I guess people also learn to counter the absurd warriors signet too, somehow.

Zenith.7301:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Zenith.7301:

Evilek.5690:

Zenith.7301:

What I find more broken in that video is that said thief interrupting you can do so 3-4 times in a row.

Most classes at best get 2 interrupts on 30+ sec cd’s.

Stun=Daze=knockdown=Launch all this effect make interupt

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daze
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knock_down
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Launch

Warrior,Mesmer,Thief,Elementalist,Engineer etc can you interupted 4+ in a row no only Thief.

1) Learn the mechanics of this game
2)Now you are qualified to write on the forum

Learn to not be stupid for once. All those classes in order to interrupt 3-4 times have to choose weapons that are only good for that, suck offensively, and in general those builds are not viable and have much longer cooldowns than a thief interrupting.

Tell me which viable ele spec can easily interrupt attack from range several times and still burst people down.

Thief has to choose offhand pistol and/or trait 30 into trickery, losing out on a ton of defense to do so. Your point is still moot. If you’re tired of being interrupted by a thief, grab some reflects. Instead of whining about a class, learn to counter them and build around that counter concept.

Oh poor thieves, having to choose their strongest offhand weapon.

All classes obviously have copious amounts of reflection and plenty of utility slots to fit it in place of the already mandatory utilities they need to survive since they dont get their burst and defense gifted to them on their weaponsets unlike black powder and backstab.

How about we ban you from playing thief and force you to play ele and mesmers and non-bunker rangers against thieves as your sole pvp experience. Let’s see how that “learn to counter” tune of yours last.

I guess people also learn to counter the absurd warriors signet too, somehow.

Funny enough, I play all 3 of those in PvP with much success. Ranger offhand axe has a traited 1200 range pull on a 12s CD with skill 5 being a very long reflect which can be manually canceled. I’ve also been playing a power staff mesmer who’s Phantasmal warlock hits enemies for up to 7k every 5 seconds with plenty of reflects, and my ele as a support S/F with projectile blocks and invuln. Thieves have never been a problem for me on those classes and it’s because I know how thieves work. I haven’t played my thief on a regular basis in several months due to the amount of QQ you get no matter what you play, but I’ll still defend the class, because it’s a major L2P issue.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Zenith.7301:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Zenith.7301:

Evilek.5690:

Zenith.7301:

What I find more broken in that video is that said thief interrupting you can do so 3-4 times in a row.

Most classes at best get 2 interrupts on 30+ sec cd’s.

Stun=Daze=knockdown=Launch all this effect make interupt

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daze
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knock_down
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Launch

Warrior,Mesmer,Thief,Elementalist,Engineer etc can you interupted 4+ in a row no only Thief.

1) Learn the mechanics of this game
2)Now you are qualified to write on the forum

Learn to not be stupid for once. All those classes in order to interrupt 3-4 times have to choose weapons that are only good for that, suck offensively, and in general those builds are not viable and have much longer cooldowns than a thief interrupting.

Tell me which viable ele spec can easily interrupt attack from range several times and still burst people down.

Thief has to choose offhand pistol and/or trait 30 into trickery, losing out on a ton of defense to do so. Your point is still moot. If you’re tired of being interrupted by a thief, grab some reflects. Instead of whining about a class, learn to counter them and build around that counter concept.

Oh poor thieves, having to choose their strongest offhand weapon.

All classes obviously have copious amounts of reflection and plenty of utility slots to fit it in place of the already mandatory utilities they need to survive since they dont get their burst and defense gifted to them on their weaponsets unlike black powder and backstab.

How about we ban you from playing thief and force you to play ele and mesmers and non-bunker rangers against thieves as your sole pvp experience. Let’s see how that “learn to counter” tune of yours last.

I guess people also learn to counter the absurd warriors signet too, somehow.

Funny enough, I play all 3 of those in PvP with much success. Ranger offhand axe has a traited 1200 range pull on a 12s CD with skill 5 being a very long reflect which can be manually canceled. I’ve also been playing a power staff mesmer who’s Phantasmal warlock hits enemies for up to 7k every 5 seconds with plenty of reflects, and my ele as a support S/F with projectile blocks and invuln. Thieves have never been a problem for me on those classes and it’s because I know how thieves work. I haven’t played my thief on a regular basis in several months due to the amount of QQ you get no matter what you play, but I’ll still defend the class, because it’s a major L2P issue.

Yes, it’s L2P. Ele/mesmer/power ranger are so well represented in all tiers of pvp.

For now I think I’m better off with L2Ignore

Hey guys, I see that we are striving a bit off the profession chart here. Let’s try to keep it a bit more specific, and constructive. Drop the l2p arguments, and come with real ones instead.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Honestly the cries for thief nerfs are getting over the top. We’re almost as bad as rangers with recent nerfs, and for some reason we’re seeing more QQ. Hammer warriors already counter thieves very well with the lack of stability, and a thief already loses initiative, essentially putting the skill on cooldown. The thing about initiative is that it teaches one to manage it and when you’ve run out, you’re essentially dead.

Keep constant pressure on the thief, and force him to blow his initiative. Interrupts are a part of this process, and dodging/invuln/blind also cost the full initiative of the skill. If a thief spams, he’s out of the fight and you’ve got the opportunity to get the kill. The trick to fighting thieves is through attrition, which is the entire point of initiative. If you want to make this change to thieves, you’ve got to give them access to copious amounts of stability rather than blindly nerfing them because you refuse to L2P.

~Glïnt

Trying to defend thief in its current state is kittening stupid. We are OP, stop trying to deny it.

Ozie.4176:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Honestly the cries for thief nerfs are getting over the top. We’re almost as bad as rangers with recent nerfs, and for some reason we’re seeing more QQ. Hammer warriors already counter thieves very well with the lack of stability, and a thief already loses initiative, essentially putting the skill on cooldown. The thing about initiative is that it teaches one to manage it and when you’ve run out, you’re essentially dead.

Keep constant pressure on the thief, and force him to blow his initiative. Interrupts are a part of this process, and dodging/invuln/blind also cost the full initiative of the skill. If a thief spams, he’s out of the fight and you’ve got the opportunity to get the kill. The trick to fighting thieves is through attrition, which is the entire point of initiative. If you want to make this change to thieves, you’ve got to give them access to copious amounts of stability rather than blindly nerfing them because you refuse to L2P.

~Glïnt

Trying to defend thief in its current state is kittening stupid. We are OP, stop trying to deny it.

Maybe you should explain “OP” in a more elaborate description rather than throwing blanket statements around. Yes: one particular set is OP in a certain situation. This does NOT mean that you nerf the entire class. I’m sorry, OP, but your suggestion would be worse than when ANet changed revealed from 3s to 4s and quickly reverted it outside of PvP due to the backlash. Thieves simply lack the defense to deal with having cooldowns when interrupted. My arguments were “real”, despite what you think, and the “L2P” portions only covered part of my statements.

While you bring up many valid points I dislike forums so I will keep this brief.

In regard to spamming abilities. Thief is one of the few classes (Necro, Engineer, Warrior) where you can actively spam skills. This leads to a low skill floor, allowing players entry into the class at a level more proficient than if they were to enter on say an Elementalist. However it’s far from efficient and does very little against skilled players. Thieves that spam abilities are using the correct tools at the correct times, are extremely predictable, easy to counter, and in most cases free kills. A good thief will use the right skill at the right time, with little hesitation or repetition.

As for the initiative lost (or not lost) on interrupt. The initiative system should cost the thief initiative at the start of the cast to promote proper thought and intelligent game play rather than spamming. This will punish bad or new thieves for wasting skills instead of using them at proper times or covering important casts with blinds/dazes/stuns/stealth. As for putting the skill on cooldown, I do not think that is a good idea. It will completely shut down the class in certain aspects and will go against the class resource system (initiative vs cooldowns).

-Caed

Narcarsis.5739:

While you bring up many valid points I dislike forums so I will keep this brief.

In regard to spamming abilities. Thief is one of the few classes (Necro, Engineer, Warrior) where you can actively spam skills. This leads to a low skill floor, allowing players entry into the class at a level more proficient than if they were to enter on say an Elementalist. However it’s far from efficient and does very little against skilled players. Thieves that spam abilities are using the correct tools at the correct times, are extremely predictable, easy to counter, and in most cases free kills. A good thief will use the right skill at the right time, with little hesitation or repetition.

As for the initiative lost (or not lost) on interrupt. The initiative system should cost the thief initiative at the start of the cast to promote proper thought and intelligent game play rather than spamming. This will punish bad or new thieves for wasting skills instead of using them at proper times or covering important casts with blinds/dazes/stuns/stealth. As for putting the skill on cooldown, I do not think that is a good idea. It will completely shut down the class in certain aspects and will go against the class resource system (initiative vs cooldowns).

-Caed

here, he said it. init cost in, spam out.

thief already loses ini when interrupted, any ini los is basically a CD on every weapon spell not just 1 including opportunity costs…. any more nerfs to ini los would just cause dmg buff to skills otherwise they would be too weak…. i would rather not deal with more dmg

i personally don’t see any issue with interrupting thieves, the important ones would be interrupt on BP+ HS and heal and those already punish them really hard, any more is just uncalled for imo

@Ozie: not all play pw 3 spam like you, so talk about yourself plz

Cynz.9437:

thief already loses ini when interrupted, any ini los is basically a CD on every weapon spell not just 1 including opportunity costs…. any more nerfs to ini los would just cause dmg buff to skills otherwise they would be too weak…. i would rather not deal with more dmg

i personally don’t see any issue with interrupting thieves, the important ones would be interrupt on BP+ HS and heal and those already punish them really hard, any more is just uncalled for imo

@Ozie: not all play pw 3 spam like you, so talk about yourself plz

can the rest of profs get same bonus? keep skills no cost to interrupts? got interrupted? just click it again, sorry for inconvenience.

gesho.9468:

Cynz.9437:

thief already loses ini when interrupted, any ini los is basically a CD on every weapon spell not just 1 including opportunity costs…. any more nerfs to ini los would just cause dmg buff to skills otherwise they would be too weak…. i would rather not deal with more dmg

i personally don’t see any issue with interrupting thieves, the important ones would be interrupt on BP+ HS and heal and those already punish them really hard, any more is just uncalled for imo

@Ozie: not all play pw 3 spam like you, so talk about yourself plz

can the rest of profs get same bonus? keep skills no cost to interrupts? got interrupted? just click it again, sorry for inconvenience.

It’s more detrimental when you’re too low on initiative to activate it again, or you’ve just used 8 out of your 12 initiative to gain stealth, which when interrupted can quite literally kill the thief, because he needs that stealth when running D/P. Play a thief and you’ll have an easier time with the concept of initiative.

who says thieves have no stability? Use dagger storm → esc or dodge roll, there 9s stability. Seriously, you get interrupted you should lose ini. Almost every thief play blind spam, guess you never been on the receiving end of it. Also aren’t thieves incredibly popular with w/e they do because they excel in both PvP, WvW and PvE. Nothing like the current stealth past everything while doing damage on par with warrior (if not higher).

So the complaining is that a thief should be able to spam nonstop Pistol Whip without a care in the world?

Forestgreen.7981:

who says thieves have no stability? Use dagger storm -> esc or dodge roll, there 9s stability. Seriously, you get interrupted you should lose ini. Almost every thief play blind spam, guess you never been on the receiving end of it. Also aren’t thieves incredibly popular with w/e they do because they excel in both PvP, WvW and PvE. Nothing like the current stealth past everything while doing damage on par with warrior (if not higher).

So the complaining is that a thief should be able to spam nonstop Pistol Whip without a care in the world?

That’s fantastic! 8s of stability on a 120s cd? Man, I wish every class had that much stability access! /passiveaggressiveoff

I don’t think having a little consistency between class mechanics and counterplay warrants thieves getting any sort of buff. Initiative already ignores chilled for god knows what reason while other classes can be utterly crippled by it, ignoring interrupts as well is just icing on the double standard cake. It’s gimmicky, counterplay ignoring crap like that that makes everyone hate kitten like Healing Signet. It isn’t the fact that it’s a really good skill or that it’s hard to outplay that makes it aggravating, it’s that the opportunity to outplay that mechanic just flat out doesn’t even exist beyond the warrior completely kittening up. Initiative is the cooldown equivalent of Healing Signet.

The system is more consistent than you make it look. The initiative loss you see on HS happens due to the skill actually starting, when you interrupted BP you interrupted the precast phase not the cast, I doubt you can interrupt the cast there the cast as such seems instant.
Another example would be shadow shot if you get dazed after the shot but before the stab lands (which is the cast time) you will lose the initiative and the stab will not land.
If you get interrupted on the precast you will not lose initiative.

If that is balanced I can not really judge, since I next to never get interrupted, but this is certainly by design and not a bug it is consistent on all weaponskills.

Sweetbread.2679:

I don’t think having a little consistency between class mechanics and counterplay warrants thieves getting any sort of buff. Initiative already ignores chilled for god knows what reason while other classes can be utterly crippled by it, ignoring interrupts as well is just icing on the double standard cake. It’s gimmicky, counterplay ignoring crap like that that makes everyone hate kitten like Healing Signet. It isn’t the fact that it’s a really good skill or that it’s hard to outplay that makes it aggravating, it’s that the opportunity to outplay that mechanic just flat out doesn’t even exist beyond the warrior completely kittening up. Initiative is the cooldown equivalent of Healing Signet.

Thief weapon skills are affected by chill, the time inbetween skill uses increases, you lose the time even if initiative is not affected a chilled thief can use less skills in the same timeframe than a thief without the chilled conditions.

In addition to that there are special effects hindering thieves while chilled, heartseeker will jump only half the distance for example.

Bazzoong.7145:

Sweetbread.2679:

I don’t think having a little consistency between class mechanics and counterplay warrants thieves getting any sort of buff. Initiative already ignores chilled for god knows what reason while other classes can be utterly crippled by it, ignoring interrupts as well is just icing on the double standard cake. It’s gimmicky, counterplay ignoring crap like that that makes everyone hate kitten like Healing Signet. It isn’t the fact that it’s a really good skill or that it’s hard to outplay that makes it aggravating, it’s that the opportunity to outplay that mechanic just flat out doesn’t even exist beyond the warrior completely kittening up. Initiative is the cooldown equivalent of Healing Signet.

Thief weapon skills are affected by chill, the time inbetween skill uses increases, you lose the time even if initiative is not affected a chilled thief can use less skills in the same timeframe than a thief without the chilled conditions.

In addition to that there are special effects hindering thieves while chilled, heartseeker will jump only half the distance for example.

LOL, as if chills didn’t affect other classes’ leaps, which are on much longer cooldowns than HS.

I love how thieves act like they’re the only glass cannon that will die if not allowed to go invulnerable.

Newsflash, any nonplate glass cannon dies in seconds. It’s not unique to thieves however much they like to pretend being super squishy relative to other classes that aren’t guardians/warriors/engineers.

Bazzoong.7145:

Sweetbread.2679:

I don’t think having a little consistency between class mechanics and counterplay warrants thieves getting any sort of buff. Initiative already ignores chilled for god knows what reason while other classes can be utterly crippled by it, ignoring interrupts as well is just icing on the double standard cake. It’s gimmicky, counterplay ignoring crap like that that makes everyone hate kitten like Healing Signet. It isn’t the fact that it’s a really good skill or that it’s hard to outplay that makes it aggravating, it’s that the opportunity to outplay that mechanic just flat out doesn’t even exist beyond the warrior completely kittening up. Initiative is the cooldown equivalent of Healing Signet.

Thief weapon skills are affected by chill, the time inbetween skill uses increases, you lose the time even if initiative is not affected a chilled thief can use less skills in the same timeframe than a thief without the chilled conditions.

In addition to that there are special effects hindering thieves while chilled, heartseeker will jump only half the distance for example.

Yeah obviously people generally use chilled to make leap skills shorter and not for the giant 66% additional cooldown it applies. Were you actually thinking that having a fraction of a second additional aftercast was somehow the same thing as being locked out of a 30 second weapon skill for an additional 20? What fantasy world do you live in, why do you people even reply? It’s just embarrassing.