Guild Wars 2

i have main a thief since i started playing gw2 … i have more than 3k + pvp battle ‘s, i play a lot of WVW and pve.. and what i found very disappointing is how thief class it’s not worth playing anymore…
why i started with a thief? because, i always liked the way they play… they go inv, and they do a lot of damage… but now
we have mesmer-ranger-ing that can go inv as well… more than that.. mesmer almost have perma stealth, with the freaking clones that can do a lot of damage, if we add to that that they have skill that allow them to take no damage at all (we can add to that… the warriors- the rangers- guardians, and we can add.. why not the ele’s with earth trait they recive no crit. damage and they have perma health)….
but what amazed me the most, that all the classes have more burst damage than a thief, for example, mesmer with mantra’s and with 3-4 of gs skills they can take you in 2 if they hit you ( this.. is thinking that you are running a zerker build)… but for you to take a mesmer at least you have to be able to do 2 or 3 backstab… that right now the backstab is really easy to avoid…rangers for example if they hit you with the 4 of longbow… and next with pew pew.. they can make you 10k+ of damage in a really easy way—-traps rangers .. can take you in 3 sec if you cant avoid the traps.
… ing can take you to the ground and with the granades..well you are done if you get hit by that.. dont make me talk about burn guardian’s.. if you can’t go inv to clean the condi’s you are done ..(remember that if you are running a zerker build at least in pvp you only have 11k of hp!!:. 11k… really?? all the other class have at least 15k of hp… if you want to go zerk and have more vitality 17k hp i think you need the marauder amulet.. but you are losing damage with that… and even with that 17k hp its nothing cuz you have no defense.. 2 good hits and you are pretty much done
…. now lets talk about the new traits of all classes…. daredevil pretty much useless 150 endurance dont solve the main’s problems of the thief .. you change burst damage to sustain damage.. but in pvp or wvw when you get outnumber .. dodge dont work to well.. and we are back to the main problem of the thief.. that now is worse… cuz its seem that all classes can reaveal you!!!! (we are suposse to be the master of shadow … and we can’t reaveal anyone).. dont even think in using shadow refuge if you are fighting a ing .. cuz its going to make the sr useless… and you will get reveal dbuff
going bk for the sustain damage …. that is useless if you only have 1 condi clear.. you have no inv (cuz they can reveal you in a easy way)… so with daredevil no more burst damage (that all the other class have more than you anyway).. 150 endurance dont fix the main problems of the thief .. so its useless …
the buff to p/p.. well the damage its really good i have to admit that.. but i still prefer ricochet to the damage.. ricochet was the only good area damage that we thief have.. and you take it away from us…
i’m not much a fan of condi’s build.. but daredevil with d/d was good… but again if you get 2vs 1 you are dead (at least in pvp) … new traits of other class are way to op for the thief right now…
i dont want to leave my thief.. but right now .. in pvp its better to use other class than the thief.. (cuz the thief its seem its only good for dcap ) in wvw well… no comments about that.. pve pretty much the same as always

Don’t bother posting here. Every non-thief player will tell you: the class is “fine”. They will just tell you, you should be avoiding battles and decap enemy points (funny enough if you only do that, everyone rages at you). I especially love those cases when team ends up with 2-3 thieves and your own teammates harass you or even go afk if you don’t switch to something else besides thief.

Thief lost powercreep battle because thief dev obviously went for balance while other devs – for powercreep.

something has to be done… there is a lot of user that are going to drop thief.. cuz there is no use in playing with them anymore… mesmer-ing and ranger are more thief than us….

Thief is fine, daredevil is looking great for stealthless thief builds, you’re all whining over nothing because you want thief to be something it doesn’t need to be.
I’m a thief main, been for 3 years, and I’m happy with it. I’m tired of people whining about this particular topic. Just go play another class.

As of right now, Good Mesmers will flat out replace thieves entirely.

Right now thieves have the benefit of doing a lot of high damage, quickly while staying evasive and aggressive. But that is all they bring to the table.

I played against a really good Mesmer the other day, the way he shattered spike was instant as he’d stand ontop of my character to shatter. He’d stun, Mirror Images, dodge, Mind Wreck for an instant 14k damage. Because the Mesmer is right next to you, you can never see the shatters coming. The stun was just for extra damage, it’s not even used for the Mind Wreck spike.

It was pretty brilliant on how he has it so the way to plays his shatters, unavoidable and instant, making it impossible to fight that Mesmer in a 1v1, superb kiting and an instant massive damage spike.

In my opinion, they need to fix Mesmers. Thieves and mesmers have always combated eachother for the top spot as the assassin class. As of right now Mesmers provide more than thieves can, simple as that.

Mesmers are a good case of a class with super, unbeatable, strong mechanics.
Yet, still has super crippling weaknesses.

I main ele, I play a lot of Mesmer and guardian as well. And now I’m practicing that instant shatter spike, now I can never justify having a thief, ever.

as long as shortbow #5 is there nothing will replace the thief’s decap role. a team can choose to not play with a thief, but they will miss out on the decaps and the fast +1 if that’s what they don’t need.

as long as thief has the highest xyz mobility nothing will replace thief and its role. if teams want to play with or without is their decision.

idk why people still have that mindset that you’re only “allowed” to play 1 class. pick a 2nd class and play both well, it’s fun and you can adapt depending on the situation.

thieves have never been the best teamfighters so i don’t understand why people are crying about this.

Thief is much better at chasing people down than mesmer. Compared to mesmer it also has dps and not only Burst. Improvisation also still eats mesmer in 1v1 because plasma is pretty close to invulnerable vs mes unless the mes gets lucky and removes the protection with shatter. If the mesmer does not run daze mantra (in which case he has to give up portal → lower mobility or decoy → only 1 stealth)Thief damage is also a lot more reliable as it is less telegraphed.
Talking about core Mesmer (shatter), not chronomancer as I consider chronomancer blatantly overpowered.
Idk why people think that thief is underpowered when it is pretty much the only class that has been mandatory in higher levels of play since the release of gw2. I can’t tell what is going to happen but until now not bringing a thief is putting yourself at a disadvantage.
Yes thief is bad in multiples but besides a few exceptions (herp kitten d/d ele) having a balanced comp is usually superior to stacking the same build (not class). The reason you don’t want 2 thieves is because it has only 1 build (yes technically it has more builds but – despite d/p being superior to the other builds – all the builds do the same thing)
If people want to stack the same build, that is usually a sign that it is overpowered.

the main problem, is that now there are other classes than do a better job than thief.. mesmer>thief… ing>thief-( come on.. they go inv.. they have a lot of burst damage. +condi damage—and now they can reveal you..):….. nocta… im good with thief… i now how to play.. i now all the builds…. what i say.. is that there is no rol for the thief right now.. not in pvp.. and not at wvw…. a good mesmer can kill a thief in no time.. (i use mesmer as well .. and thief dont last 2sec…) ing.. can hold and dcap points… and about the burst damage.. any class right now…can do more damage than a thief with backstab… and we add that some class can be tanky.. and zerker at the same time..

sounds like thief is nothing for you in pvp then. with all that you state what “other classes can do” you should really think about switching to those if you’re not fit for the thief’s role, which is not “stealth and burst” or to take 1v1s.

thief is probably the one class that has been meta since the beginning of time

Nocta.5274:

Thief is fine, daredevil is looking great for stealthless thief builds, you’re all whining over nothing because you want thief to be something it doesn’t need to be.
I’m a thief main, been for 3 years, and I’m happy with it. I’m tired of people whining about this particular topic. Just go play another class.

True. People are whining because they don’t want thief to be the worst profession.

Joking aside, I hate when I have a thief on my team. I’ve posted this before, but I really would love to have a PUG option that says “do not put a thief on my team”

dkayl.6509:

the main problem, is that now there are other classes than do a better job than thief.. mesmer>thief… ing>thief-( come on.. they go inv.. they have a lot of burst damage. +condi damage—and now they can reveal you..):….. nocta… im good with thief… i now how to play.. i now all the builds…. what i say.. is that there is no rol for the thief right now.. not in pvp.. and not at wvw…. a good mesmer can kill a thief in no time.. (i use mesmer as well .. and thief dont last 2sec…) ing.. can hold and dcap points… and about the burst damage.. any class right now…can do more damage than a thief with backstab… and we add that some class can be tanky.. and zerker at the same time..

Mesmer and engi are nowhere near Thief’s mobility.
Mesmer doesn’t have easy access to swiftness, only has one 27sec CD Z axis teleport, and is all burst no sustain dps.
Mesmer is about few but very important mobility tools ( portal ), thief is about mobility all the time.

Engi has no teleport, good swiftness access ( current meta build has average one with only elixir B ) but nowhere near the same burst. It’s also a Soldier profession, which mean it doesn’t overlap with Thief’s role. ( see Team Abjured, using thief and engi )

+1ing fights anywhere on the map in less than 10sec with a 20sec CD fully traited Steal is insanely powerful and I’m tired of people saying we have no role / we get overshadow by other classes at it.

Thief is not going to vanish (haha) in pvp.
Still good with D/P and Shortbow. Just not much room for error.
Mess up and you die in a second.
Our survivability isn´t the best. Not really suited for sustained fights.
But we can do fast spikes, rip stability, have pretty good rezzes and we have superior mobility.

Build diversity would be nice but well i think that has to wait. Daredevil and Staff seems like they won´t give us that option.

Best regards!

Shino

lighter.2708:

thief is probably the one class that has been meta since the beginning of time

It’s been meta for about 1.5 after release after that it was mostly SB#5.

Shinobi.3240:

Thief is not going to vanish (haha) in pvp.
Still good with D/P and Shortbow. Just not much room for error.
Mess up and you die in a second.
Our survivability isn´t the best. Not really suited for sustained fights.
But we can do fast spikes, rip stability, have pretty good rezzes and we have superior mobility.

Build diversity would be nice but well i think that has to wait. Daredevil and Staff seems like they won´t give us that option.

Best regards!

Shino

Trickery DA Daredevil S/D is a very viable option. Bit more survability but lacks the stealth rez.
CS Trick Daredevil P/P has high potential if they make pistol 2 worth using one day.

Build diversity is almost there.

Sagat.3285:

lighter.2708:

thief is probably the one class that has been meta since the beginning of time

It’s been meta for about 1.5 after release after that it was mostly SB#5.

Pretty much. If it wasn’t for SB5 thief would have been out of the meta.

Mesmers are simply a better assassin class than thieves right now, offering good utility without sacrificing any damage.

Hell, during the burning meta world championships The Abjured wouldn’t have won without Toker, his positioning and rotations won them the tournament. Not once did I say, “oh, that was a good kill!”
Rather, “oh, that was a good rotation!”

Thief mechanics are good but outclassed. Simple as that. ArenaNet simply buffed other classes to assassinate better than thieves.

i do agree that mesmer on power level is slightly higher then thief and it true that anet has buffed other classes to assassinate better then thieves but remember thief has a certain style to it where other class be weakness or strength to how you play thief and i love the mindgames between mesmer or thief fights.

but in today’s pvp situation the thief is the spike, the team-stealth, mobile/offensive/defensive roamer or Jungler if you are on Buff maps and ninja medic so let say whatever traits you take will impact on how you play thief whatever if you take it for yourself or the team sakes it depends on how you want to play it really… i think we thief players do have problems fitting in MM composition just due to how MM works in any other games regardless if you soloq

but dkayl.6509 remember what we thieves do best is adapt even with meta

Mesmer will be able to cast portals bck2 bck and have covered that close mid much faster than thief and drag half or whole team with them,and ranger gs/staff will cover if not more than same as thief,even now i can cover 2x 1100 range with my ranger with use of quick draw gs reduction with in 4 sec,and when i get where i want i still have 4 skills to use and no need to w8 for ini regen.
With staff /gs ranger will be king of mobility….

A thief is not an assassin

I fall in between here.

Honestly think a SLIGHT power buff in either damage or clean HP or a bit more mitigation is needed. And by slight, i mean a TINY bit.

Backstabs take quite a bit of investment but do too little damage for example, especially now that you need to give up so much team support and defense to get the assured crit in crit strikes.

I dont main thief but play it from time to time for enjoyment

the current d/p meta thief will still reign supreme even post HoT
Thief has no real identity and only one role since release. it is the same in wvw and pve as well
build diversity is laughable
4 weapon sets are quite undertuned and leaves room only for d/p
no buffs, nerfs and adding too much counters and reveal access to classes that didnt need it

life as a necromancer might have been hard but at least it had variety

rip thief

Thief is still very important factor in the meta game.
Every damaging class when designing their build have to consider, ‘can this build survive a thief?’. If not, you may as well just abandon that no matter how good it is in other situations.

deda.8302:

Mesmer will be able to cast portals bck2 bck and have covered that close mid much faster than thief and drag half or whole team with them,and ranger gs/staff will cover if not more than same as thief,even now i can cover 2x 1100 range with my ranger with use of quick draw gs reduction with in 4 sec,and when i get where i want i still have 4 skills to use and no need to w8 for ini regen.
With staff /gs ranger will be king of mobility….

x3 900 SB 5 (trickery)
1200 shadowstep
3 dash that covers 450 and provides 13 sec of swiftness
not including steal (1200) or IS (900) due targeting reason but still can be used

I “dare” you to catch a daredevil kappa

I main a engie and i didnt read any of this not even OPs and i can agree…based on the title

Maybe one day, since other classes are slowly pulling ahead of thief with each balance patch, and new elite specialisations are supposedly going to be released in future which as seen for mesmer, can be a significant buff and therefore another chance for all classes to receive greater buffs and tweaks than the thief. But right now, I don’t think thief will drop out of meta. The current D/P meta build remains strong at what it does, and the fact remains that a team without a thief is at a disadvantage vs a team with a thief.

That said, Daredevil is very disapointing since it’s got desirable traits that cannot be used. They should be in the Acrobatics line, and Daredevil be something different. Our class mechanic is terrible without Trickery; we need the reduced CD, daze and vigor. The elite spec was meant to expand on our mechanic, turning it into something different. Daredevil doesn’t even try to do this, so even with it, we still need Trickery. An extra dodge, but no extra endurance regeneration does not work very well. Our best grandmaster? A minor trait taken from warrior’s plus a new animation. It looks fun, there are some good trait ideas there, and it’s clear that a lot of work went into it. Just no where near as much as for other classes, and consequentially, it’s no where near as deserving of the name "elite specialisation" as those of other classes.

Historically, there was a time window (honestly not really long) after the one shot burst nerf with the old quickness and the old mug and before the steal buff and s/D rework, thief had a bad time and not was really considered, not really good.

I’ve the feeling thief it will be in the same situation after hot, probably not really considered for random queue and maybe not really mandatory in esl/wts.

With stealth not strong like in the past, not enough dodges basically thief will be a shortbow #5 bot.

What a joke.

Shepstar.8429:

deda.8302:

Mesmer will be able to cast portals bck2 bck and have covered that close mid much faster than thief and drag half or whole team with them,and ranger gs/staff will cover if not more than same as thief,even now i can cover 2x 1100 range with my ranger with use of quick draw gs reduction with in 4 sec,and when i get where i want i still have 4 skills to use and no need to w8 for ini regen.
With staff /gs ranger will be king of mobility….

x3 900 SB 5 (trickery)
1200 shadowstep
3 dash that covers 450 and provides 13 sec of swiftness
not including steal (1200) or IS (900) due targeting reason but still can be used

I “dare” you to catch a daredevil kappa

Oh yes you are right but,you just blew all your ini +utillity skill if you steal in to fight you can just auto att…

Besides that yes you are right ,and again how important that will be in current maps if i can effectively cover distance between points in same time as thief. Sure thief will have advantage on maps like khylo due to x.y.z mobility,but then mesmer can do that 2

Even this one part of the game where thiefs ruled is now chalanged by mesmers and rangers.

The biggest problem with thief is that it initially attracted a lot of players who liked the rambo “teleport around the map and destroy people in duels” playstyle. The thief now occupies a far more strategy role, which is to do clutch bursts, resses, stomps, and blinds/interrupts in teamfights while also rotating around the map extremely quickly to mess up the enemy team’s rotations.

A thief that plays this new role well is devastating to the other team. But a thief that just wants to roam around the map trying to decap in 1v1 fights is not going to be very effective in conquest (still works decently well in WvW, however).

What sucks is that the thief has kind of been pidgeonholed into this role. However, as a matter of balance you can’t have a strong dueling build with the level of mobility + disengages + stealth that a thief has (which is far more than mesmer). Ideally, A.net would buff the other weapon sets/combos (outside d/p + sb) so that thief ends up getting a less mobile but far more effective dueling or bruiser-type build. It looks like A.net is working on making P/P a viable alternative to shortbow (still a long way to go here…), which is a good step in the right direction.

A.net would also need to provide thief better condi cleanse outside of stealth. Escapist’s Absolution on Daredevil is insanely good, but I don’t think the non-stealth condi cleanse traits should be limited to Daredevil. (I’m not counting the acrobatics adept trait which you have no control over).

A lesser but still noticeable issue behind a lot of thief complaints is that a lot of thief players relied too heavily on stealth and never developed their mechanical skills like timing interrupts, blinds, and dodges. Due to a number of reasons, the “stealth, burst, retreat & repeat” strategy doesn’t work anymore. This means the thief needs to be spot on with his interrupts, blinds, and dodges to survive. This means knowing what your opponent’s skills are so you know what to blind/dodge/interrupt, rather than just random-dodging until your reveal debuff is gone so you can restealth. A thief who knows how to do these things has an advantage over most mesmer builds (especially the portal-PU build used in conquest) while a thief who doesn’t will just get instagibbed.

Mesmers have been sticking their chocolate in the thiefs peanut butter for a long time. I started the game as a thief and am really sorry to see it pushed into barely any use.

AoE stealth is the single worst thing that can ever happen to any game. Buff thieves, completely obliterate their stealth.

ResJudicator.7916:

A lesser but still noticeable issue behind a lot of thief complaints is that a lot of thief players relied too heavily on stealth and never developed their mechanical skills like timing interrupts, blinds, and dodges. Due to a number of reasons, the “stealth, burst, retreat & repeat” strategy doesn’t work anymore. This means the thief needs to be spot on with his interrupts, blinds, and dodges to survive. This means knowing what your opponent’s skills are so you know what to blind/dodge/interrupt, rather than just random-dodging until your reveal debuff is gone so you can restealth. A thief who knows how to do these things has an advantage over most mesmer builds (especially the portal-PU build used in conquest) while a thief who doesn’t will just get instagibbed.

That’s nice, but tell me what options a thief has got left to be without stealth and to interrupt and dodge?
It has all been nerfed with the June patch.
Only option would’ve been S/D – acrobatics nerfed = not viable anymore.
A decent amount of interrupts and blinds = D/P which needs stealth, SA nerfed + reveal skills = not really viable anymore.
D/D is a stealth build, the weapons alone have no utility, so all has to come from the traits which were heavily nerfed (especially for that weaponset).
P/D got a buff again, but it still relies on stealth and I’m not so sure how good it is without ricochet which was deleted with the June patch.
So it’s nice to hear what you think how thieves should play, the problem is; they can’t.

Maybe with daredevil some of these builds will become viable again and maybe staff will be viable but that would mean that GW2 is becoming a P2W game.

Expansions aren’t P2W.

Schurge.5194:

Expansions aren’t P2W.

If a paid expansion offers options in a competitive setting that are better than the options available to free players, it’s P2W. Kinda the definition.

On topic, thieves are rapidly losing the dueling game to other classes, aren’t actually that fair ahead in mobility of several other classes (Warrior mobility builds, smart rangers, mesmers with Sig of Insp), and either sacrifice survivability for burst, which their abilities encourage, and get melted in teamfights if you dare break stealth, OR you get SOME survivability, and can’t do damage because your weapons and traits are so heavily slanted towards burst and stealth.

But u guys got an extra dodge! U go do a funny spin while i go bk into my celestial avatar

I disagree and agree with some points of this post. Most of it sounds like raging over being outclassed in pvp because you can’t perform your role. It is true that PARTS of the thief are “under-tuned” in COMPARISON to other classes of a more simple nature, but that being said. It is important to realize that some of the best players in the games use thief in such a way that it is not only a NON-OPTIONAL part of a team, but it is sometimes the complete and total reason for a win or loss.

A very good thief can rotate and dps on a rate that no other class can do, even mesmer has trouble keeping up with thief, and they just got pu and portal nerfs that bring that level even closer. HOWEVER thief requires a lot of skill, a ton of mechanical skill honed over a long period of time. I have literally seen a thief win an entire match, finding the weak links and destroying them. We have all seen what a game is like in a 4 v 5, well a thief can very easily create a 4 v 5 scenario in a situation where they are skilled enough to isolate and eliminate node cappers.

Before you flame me for supporting the idea that thiefs are in an okay place. I do believe their condi cleanse is the biggest part of the problem. With the huge buffs to condi it has created a situation where if a thief shows itself it will be so stacked with conditions that it cannot recover, which I believe is the largest reason why thiefs are often viewed as weak, because in the activity of holding a node they are weak, especially to the current meta game, but this is also a cop out because good thiefs will often 100-0 an opponent without ever being touched…. the condi meta is slowly dieing, and if they ever get on nerfing burn it will finally hit the level it needs to, but I don’t think this is a problem with the thief, I think it is a problem with conditions. Conditions do too much damage for something so easily stacked if not removed… and the thief lacks removal. The answer isn’t give thief condi removal so they and every other class is forced to stack condi cleanse to the absolute max… or die… it is to solve the root of the problem which is primarily conditions.

Ultimately I agree that thief could use some help if the meta is to continue the way it is… however if you are in this post kittening that thief is useless, do yourself and everyone else a favor and forget ever playing one, because you don’t have the tact or drive to train the mechanics and game awareness needed to play a class at its maximum capacity.

Thief is a highly skill driven class… if I had to make a spectrum of skill to game impact I would say a class like cele ele, or zerk warrior have a very high level of impact for very low skill.. but a very low impact compared to the high level of skill play. Thief is the exact opposite, a bad thief can’t do anything, you might as well not even queue… you are a complete deficit to the team… but a good thief can literally drag a burning team across the finish line and dance on the enemies graves… they are one of the highest impact per skill class setups in the game… so please instead of kittening on the forum about a meta that trust me, they know better than you… just train thief and learn how to play it at its maximum…. This post isn’t actually going to do anything to persuade arena net. They have a team that’s sole job day in and day out is to study and optomize meta shift and class balance… and it will never be perfect… it CAN NEVER be perfect. Perfect balance in a game is a paradox and these kind of posts always exist “My class isn’t strong enough, the game would be more balanced if it was”, instead of posting the truth “I am not skilled enough to play this class but I would really like to, lower the skill cap please”. I am not saying lowering the skill cap of classes is bad, but honestly if you look at mesmer and say it does everything better, you should play a mesmer because you weren’t cut out to play thief at its high end, and probably never will be because you are posting on a forum instead of practicing dodge mechanics.

Understand the game, accept imbalance, shift your playstyle, and improve… don’t blame the game for your shortcomings when there are alternatives and there is proof that thief CAN be played well and make a huge impact, because we have seen it in tourneys… please… just play the game…

SolarDragon.7063:

Schurge.5194:

Expansions aren’t P2W.

If a paid expansion offers options in a competitive setting that are better than the options available to free players, it’s P2W. Kinda the definition.

Kind of wrong too. An expansion usually brings a ton of stuff. Higher level. Better gear. More abilities. In gw 2 levels and gear doesnt matter for spvp. Not that we have a higher level cap either. What we get is different. Not better, just different.

Jiggawattz.2697:

snip

Understand the game, accept imbalance, shift your playstyle, and improve… don’t blame the game for your shortcomings when there are alternatives and there is proof that thief CAN be played well and make a huge impact, because we have seen it in tourneys… please… just play the game…

I don’t care about pvp, I want to play wvw. And unfortunately the traits are shared between all game modes. And to be honest, I would not like to be the +1 in a pvp match cause I’m unable to defend myself (other than with stealth which is being destroyed by the revealed skills).

Inflames.8026:

Kind of wrong too. An expansion usually brings a ton of stuff. Higher level. Better gear. More abilities. In gw 2 levels and gear doesnt matter for spvp. Not that we have a higher level cap either. What we get is different. Not better, just different.

Here’s what I wrote and what I meant:

Thief doesn’t have many options to be viable right now as the traits for each spec (except D/P) were nerfed with the June patch.
Feline grace moved from acrobatics (crucial for S/D, the only stealthless build) to the daredevil line which is only accessible when having bought HoT.

Thief is the only class which is build around stealth – without it they’re lootbags. They got no compensation for the revealed skills and probably never will. They’re also the only class without some kind of invulnerability. (Except when traited in SA and when stealthed.. you get the point; without stealth no protection at all (and a lot of other stuff)).

So with all the reveal in game, with the power creep of other classes the only viable option is to go stealthless which would be S/D which needs daredevil = you have to buy HoT to get that line.
Even D/P might want to have DD since SA is just too weak overall and again the reveal skills which make the whole line useless.

Inflames.8026:

SolarDragon.7063:

Schurge.5194:

Expansions aren’t P2W.

If a paid expansion offers options in a competitive setting that are better than the options available to free players, it’s P2W. Kinda the definition.

Kind of wrong too. An expansion usually brings a ton of stuff. Higher level. Better gear. More abilities. In gw 2 levels and gear doesnt matter for spvp. Not that we have a higher level cap either. What we get is different. Not better, just different.

You can argue whether or not THIS expansion is P2W. But if elites give players a competitive edge (which this weekend at least they have), then the HoT expansion is P2W in regards to sPvP.

I fully agree that the biggest problem right now is the condi meta, but unlike the poster above I don’t see much hope of it going away. Reapers with their massive chill hits that are almost impossible for thieves to remove, berserkers are going to be another addition to the burn blasters, scrapper might stacking combined with FT buff, I’ve noticed a huge increase in death to fire this weekend. Both on thief and other classes, but thief is most noticable because of lack of good condi clear.

SolarDragon.7063:

I fully agree that the biggest problem right now is the condi meta, but unlike the poster above I don’t see much hope of it going away.

I have no hope

Jana.6831:

SolarDragon.7063:

I fully agree that the biggest problem right now is the condi meta, but unlike the poster above I don’t see much hope of it going away.

I have no hope

Apologies, I meant Jigga :P

So all expansions to most online games are P2W because 90% of the time a power gap is created vertically and it is assumed that anyone who plays the game gets the expansion because all old content is invalidated. Buy the expansion, quit – I don’t care. Just stop playing the victim.

SolarDragon.7063:

Jana.6831:

SolarDragon.7063:

I fully agree that the biggest problem right now is the condi meta, but unlike the poster above I don’t see much hope of it going away.

I have no hope

Apologies, I meant Jigga :P

Meh, yes and no… I don’t have hope for anything. It is a game and it is their design. I prefer to look at the game objectively and play what I think is best at the time, between my three preferred classes. I just wish others would do the same or stop kittening about balance.

Jiggawattz.2697:

Meh, yes and no… I don’t have hope for anything. It is a game and it is their design. I prefer to look at the game objectively and play what I think is best at the time, between my three preferred classes. I just wish others would do the same or stop kittening about balance.

Why should we stop “kittening about balance”? Isn’t that what makes a game great? And in fact that was what anet said about GW2 before launch “we are going to make this game the best balanced on the market” – long time ago, right? I don’t mind to be the underdog, but this is too much to be still called “ok/balance” – and I do wonder if how and when they’re going to fix all of it – not talking about thief only. Right now most classes are faceroll to win – and that is boring.
And I guess we have explained why the balance for thieves is off, I can’t talk for other classes as I play this game for thief (I have all classes but no interest to play them).

Edit: So I can’t say which specific traits make the classes faceroll everything.

Jiggawattz.2697:

I disagree and agree with some points of this post. Most of it sounds like raging over being outclassed in pvp because you can’t perform your role. It is true that PARTS of the thief are “under-tuned” in COMPARISON to other classes of a more simple nature, but that being said. It is important to realize that some of the best players in the games use thief in such a way that it is not only a NON-OPTIONAL part of a team, but it is sometimes the complete and total reason for a win or loss.

A very good thief can rotate and dps on a rate that no other class can do, even mesmer has trouble keeping up with thief, and they just got pu and portal nerfs that bring that level even closer. HOWEVER thief requires a lot of skill, a ton of mechanical skill honed over a long period of time. I have literally seen a thief win an entire match, finding the weak links and destroying them. We have all seen what a game is like in a 4 v 5, well a thief can very easily create a 4 v 5 scenario in a situation where they are skilled enough to isolate and eliminate node cappers.

Before you flame me for supporting the idea that thiefs are in an okay place. I do believe their condi cleanse is the biggest part of the problem. With the huge buffs to condi it has created a situation where if a thief shows itself it will be so stacked with conditions that it cannot recover, which I believe is the largest reason why thiefs are often viewed as weak, because in the activity of holding a node they are weak, especially to the current meta game, but this is also a cop out because good thiefs will often 100-0 an opponent without ever being touched…. the condi meta is slowly dieing, and if they ever get on nerfing burn it will finally hit the level it needs to, but I don’t think this is a problem with the thief, I think it is a problem with conditions. Conditions do too much damage for something so easily stacked if not removed… and the thief lacks removal. The answer isn’t give thief condi removal so they and every other class is forced to stack condi cleanse to the absolute max… or die… it is to solve the root of the problem which is primarily conditions.

Ultimately I agree that thief could use some help if the meta is to continue the way it is… however if you are in this post kittening that thief is useless, do yourself and everyone else a favor and forget ever playing one, because you don’t have the tact or drive to train the mechanics and game awareness needed to play a class at its maximum capacity.

Thief is a highly skill driven class… if I had to make a spectrum of skill to game impact I would say a class like cele ele, or zerk warrior have a very high level of impact for very low skill.. but a very low impact compared to the high level of skill play. Thief is the exact opposite, a bad thief can’t do anything, you might as well not even queue… you are a complete deficit to the team… but a good thief can literally drag a burning team across the finish line and dance on the enemies graves… they are one of the highest impact per skill class setups in the game… so please instead of kittening on the forum about a meta that trust me, they know better than you… just train thief and learn how to play it at its maximum…. This post isn’t actually going to do anything to persuade arena net. They have a team that’s sole job day in and day out is to study and optomize meta shift and class balance… and it will never be perfect… it CAN NEVER be perfect. Perfect balance in a game is a paradox and these kind of posts always exist “My class isn’t strong enough, the game would be more balanced if it was”, instead of posting the truth “I am not skilled enough to play this class but I would really like to, lower the skill cap please”. I am not saying lowering the skill cap of classes is bad, but honestly if you look at mesmer and say it does everything better, you should play a mesmer because you weren’t cut out to play thief at its high end, and probably never will be because you are posting on a forum instead of practicing dodge mechanics.

Understand the game, accept imbalance, shift your playstyle, and improve… don’t blame the game for your shortcomings when there are alternatives and there is proof that thief CAN be played well and make a huge impact, because we have seen it in tourneys… please… just play the game…

i’m not saying that i don’t know how to play with thief… and i know how to move at pvp and wvw.. but what i’m saying, the thief… always seems to be nerfed… for example if i get burned by a guardian…. if i can’t go inv.. (with my current build) i die in 3 sec… thx to that….. and what about the low hp thief has… if you run full zerker you have 11k of hp if you run with the marauder amulet you have 17k of hp… but no defense at all.. so we got down with 2 or 3 good hits.. good mesmer (i know cuz. i always do it with my pu) can rekt a thief in 2 sec… and now mesmer are more tanky than a guardian (chronos)… what i’m saying its that almost every class can be tanky and make a lot of damage at the same time…. traps rangers.. if you ever touch the traps with the thief.. .. god help you to clean all the condi’s….

and now.. its even worse with the revealed skill, come on.. first you give us the thing that we can’t have perma stealth (remember that the defense of thief is that he go inv).. and now if you go inv.. you got revealed (so you can’t take your condi’s)

By design, for better or worse, the Thief is a +1 and a decap class.

Chokolata.1870:

By design, for better or worse, the Thief is a +1 and a decap class.

That is false by design thief is a burst oriented with focus one weapon set due to initiative same way necro is an attrition oriented with DS.

Chokolata.1870:

By design, for better or worse, the Thief is a +1 and a decap class.

Now it is. It used to be best burst and mobility and we all know where that went.

Try to imagine the life as non thief class if you can lose to thief easily, and that thief can literally run around the map 2 time faster than you.

Nocta.5274:

Try to imagine the life as non thief class if you can lose to thief easily, and that thief can literally run around the map 2 time faster than you.

Do you see any thief asking to buff them to a point that they can easily take out other classes? I don’t.

All thieves ask for is having fair chance vs at least some classes.