Guild Wars 2

Warrior is worse. Okay, well kittening contest aside I’d like to point out why Thief is just soooooooo bad…

Our dps is noticeably lower than any other profession. But we do not provide group utility, or self capability.
Our sustain is minimal, and we have nothing to give to you for it because its value is so pathetic.
Our mobility is just barely the best, but we arrive where we’re going with very low resources compared to the next best option. Also, the pvp maps are so short that with everyone having massive mobility now as well we get maybe 1-2 seconds before that other guy comes. Not enough to decap, I assure you. I wish it were.

Inb4 someone tells me to get good because playing gw2 on my auramancer is so very much harder than playing on my thief, especially when I do so with my gw2 browser being half my screen and the other is youtube parody shows. Hint, my attention is not on gw2…

One day anet will fix Warrior and Thief. One day. But people hate warrior because “its too easy, and needs to be weaker” and everyone hates Thief because of that one time they got ganked. Siiiiiiiiiiiiiigh. Anyone got an eta on possible buffs for EITHER of these classes?

Of course both professions are broken right now. I’m hoping to see buffs to both of those classes with targeted nerfs to others.

Anet won’t buff em. Its policy. Its our turn to die in the dark because everyone raged at these classes the most in 2014. 2015 is almost over, and Thief died 6 months ago. We got 6 more months to go, warrior started 3 months after and now has 9 months. Yay waiting list.

Imo, Thief will always have a place in competitive PvP just because of their mobility and decap/+1 potential. With that said, heres what needs to change to make them( along with some other classes) more viable.

1) The CC has to be toned down. Holy kitten, it is not uncommon to go into a 3v3 and be stun/dazelocked for every bit of 6+ seconds at extremely rapid intervals. This kills damage classes and not just thief.
2) All this passive evade/block/immunity is lame as hell. When you want to initiate on a target, look at all this kitten keeping you from doing so-

-Revenant massive auto taunt once attacked
-Ranger Nature Magic trait that applies weakness for 6.
-Guardian initial block (not really complaining about this, they dont need the block to destroy you and I’m cool with it being a passive of the Virtue).
-Tempest- Frost Aura applied initially when attacking significantly slowing dps
-Reaper – attack them and get feared away which auto applies chill

What do all these have in common? The player can be afk and they all still trigger.

keep that passive, but make thief have passive blind freilds when struck, warrior have passive block when struck. that would balance things out

Preparedness for Thief, Fast Hands for Warrior, nuclear nerf every other class. Nuclear squared nerf all e-specs. There. Now lets try this from the top

Such bait. Well played, OP.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

keep that passive, but make thief have passive blind freilds when struck, warrior have passive block when struck. that would balance things out

This. It’s so unfair how all these classes get these cool “if u get hit u get this” how about give thief passive blind and stealth when struck. I mean seriously, now that I really think about it, all these other classes have these goodies while we dont!

Anet makes a class and makes it on par with rest of classes, gamer’s find a nitch to exploit, then people cry , then class gets nerf. rinse repeat for 3 years

RonDonJonVanDam.1289:

Imo, Thief will always have a place in competitive PvP just because of their mobility and decap/+1 potential. With that said, heres what needs to change to make them( along with some other classes) more viable.

1) The CC has to be toned down. Holy kitten, it is not uncommon to go into a 3v3 and be stun/dazelocked for every bit of 6+ seconds at extremely rapid intervals. This kills damage classes and not just thief.
2) All this passive evade/block/immunity is lame as hell. When you want to initiate on a target, look at all this kitten keeping you from doing so-

-Revenant massive auto taunt once attacked
-Ranger Nature Magic trait that applies weakness for 6.
-Guardian initial block (not really complaining about this, they dont need the block to destroy you and I’m cool with it being a passive of the Virtue).
-Tempest- Frost Aura applied initially when attacking significantly slowing dps
-Reaper – attack them and get feared away which auto applies chill

What do all these have in common? The player can be afk and they all still trigger.

dude even Reaper F1 random buttons spam is more powerful on condi build than every warrior close combat rotation. Balance/pvp in this game is one big joke.

Thief is fine in the hands of someone good at it.

Warrior on the other and just flat out sucks. Druid pet can almost kill warr 1v1.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

keep that passive, but make thief have passive blind freilds when struck, warrior have passive block when struck. that would balance things out

My buddy gifted me HoT because I watched him playing his Rev and said that the class looks ingenious (it still kind of feels like it). I have the prettiest male revenant ever, yet still am back on my thief a week after that.

Thief is different than every other class as they’ve never had passives (Last Refuge, ok).
= I loved thief for what it was and don’t want passive fluffy kitten – I want my thief back!

And I explained in an epic potato battle why D/D is dead and as soon as not some/all of the changes made to SA in June are reversed it will stay dead for eternity. And the bad thing is that now no one can test anymore how SA has been.
But maybe Jesus applies for a job on the balance team and saves us. No passives, Jesus, I want to help myself.

Serious Thought.5394:

Anet won’t buff em. Its policy. Its our turn to die in the dark because everyone raged at these classes the most in 2014. 2015 is almost over, and Thief died 6 months ago. We got 6 more months to go, warrior started 3 months after and now has 9 months. Yay waiting list.

There is a reason for all that rage, a reason that won’t go anywhere…ever and should hyper buffs to wars and thieves truly come..then that reason will be back too and thieves and wars will be nerfed once again.

People still remember the time with pistol whip, sword/dagger thieves, shout wars, cele axe war, hambot

With buffs come abuses and with abuses come nerfs and this goes for all professions

Sustain/dmg buffs simply lead to abuse, gameplay buffs on the other hand are what any game truly need

Supreme.3164:

There is a reason for all that rage, a reason that won’t go anywhere…ever and should hyper buffs to wars and thieves truly come..then that reason will be back too and thieves and wars will be nerfed once again.

People still remember the time with pistol whip, sword/dagger thieves, shout wars, cele axe war, hambot

With buffs come abuses and with abuses come nerfs and this goes for all professions

Sustain/dmg buffs simply lead to abuse, gameplay buffs on the other hand are what any game truly need

The only complaint people had about thief since I’m really playing it (started shortly before the Dec nerf 2 years ago) was stealth. Now Mesmer and Engis outstealth Thieves and Thieves are wrecked by reveal skills. I’m kind of curious if people are still complaining about stealth or if they’re happy that they can faceroll to win – as that is what the game currently is. And if anet doesn’t nerf all around it will become incredibly boring and each and every espurtz match will look like the last as the pros will only come back to activate the most faceroll builds and stay absent for the rest of the year – the usual players won’t really figure out the “meta builds” and anet won’t fix them because they don’t know until the matches.
Maybe it really is time to get a balance team and stop listening to players – at least then they can complain all they like, they still have to learn how to play.

Jana.6831:

Supreme.3164:

There is a reason for all that rage, a reason that won’t go anywhere…ever and should hyper buffs to wars and thieves truly come..then that reason will be back too and thieves and wars will be nerfed once again.

People still remember the time with pistol whip, sword/dagger thieves, shout wars, cele axe war, hambot

With buffs come abuses and with abuses come nerfs and this goes for all professions

Sustain/dmg buffs simply lead to abuse, gameplay buffs on the other hand are what any game truly need

The only complaint people had about thief since I’m really playing it (started shortly before the Dec nerf 2 years ago) was stealth. Now Mesmer and Engis outstealth Thieves and Thieves are wrecked by reveal skills. I’m kind of curious if people are still complaining about stealth or if they’re happy that they can faceroll to win – as that is what the game currently is. And if anet doesn’t nerf all around it will become incredibly boring and each and every espurtz match will look like the last as the pros will only come back to activate the most faceroll builds and stay absent for the rest of the year – the usual players won’t really figure out the “meta builds” and anet won’t fix them because they don’t know until the matches.
Maybe it really is time to get a balance team and stop listening to players – at least then they can complain all they like, they still have to learn how to play.

Stealth is just terrible in this game and I wouldn’t say mesmer can out stealth thieves, they certainly can’t bring as much group stealth uptime without multiple mesmers.

I do agree that the stealth gyro is just ridiculous at the moment and a 20s CD AoE reveal is way too strong and the stealth granted by the gyro should have less fuel. I also agree with other comments about passives, namely defence where you have strong auto procs and other traits that synergise too well like elixir s and automated medical response.

If nerfs happen the worst thing they could do is also buff warrs and thieves depending on how deep the nerfs are, but hey, we all know ANet doesn’t do fine tuning, it’s sledge hammers all the way.

About thief, I think Anet had the right idea with daredevil, but poor execution. One staff skill is entirely useless, one shares a similar bug that warriors are all to aware of, the auto’s reflect may as well not be there considering you’ll never actually get it off to reflect projectiles when you need it to (this could change if they let us complete the entire auto chain with or without a target and it’d still be bad tbh). Daredevil has literally become a dodge spamming staff5 class that is even more brainless than warriors at launch.

Honestly, I’d love to see the reactive gameplay that S/D somewhat brought getting more attention from devs. You should legitimately be rewarded with more damage or added effects everytime you successfully evade. Let there be some sort of penalty for dodge spamming aside from just endurance loss (DD can basically top up their dodges repeatedly every 10-15s). There just needs to be more emphasis on skill rather than just builds (which are important as well).

Build wars 2 needs to go T.T.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Honestly, I’d love to see the reactive gameplay that S/D somewhat brought getting more attention from devs. You should legitimately be rewarded with more damage or added effects everytime you successfully evade. Let there be some sort of penalty for dodge spamming aside from just endurance loss (DD can basically top up their dodges repeatedly every 10-15s). There just needs to be more emphasis on skill rather than just builds (which are important as well).

Build wars 2 needs to go T.T.

I agree with this, for me the reward of 400hp on successfully dodging an attack, once a second is just stupid. Either the ICD needs to go or for it to be increased substantially, same with the other on evading an attack. I do however not want to ever see old SD back at all, ever. I’d rather have hambow and blinding ashes celementalists than that.

Serious Thought.5394:

Anet won’t buff em. Its policy. Its our turn to die in the dark because everyone raged at these classes the most in 2014. 2015 is almost over, and Thief died 6 months ago. We got 6 more months to go, warrior started 3 months after and now has 9 months. Yay waiting list.

I do agree with you on this… but I want to say this time is different.

The brokeness of Warrior is so extreme, possibly the worst of all time of any classes that have been underpowered.

I remember when mesmer was way underpowered, but you could still make it work with the right team comp. Currently, thief is in that place. It’s defiantly way underpowered, but can work with a good player and the right team comp. Still needs a buff though.

Warrior on the otherhand… is just dead. They HAVE to do something about it. They can’t leave a class this broken in pvp.

I do see what the dev’s tried to do with warrior….high condi single damage burst and single target stuns. It looks good on paper… but in practice the massive amount of passives and AOE orgies make it very very weak.

and I see what they tried to do with thief… high aoe direct damage (with staff) with a decent amount of evades to create sustain (but not excessive like old s/d). Problem again is the massive amount of passives and AOE orgies that make this very very weak.

The only thing they need to nerf on theif is infiltrator arrow
Because then their mobility is no longer fine and they can start buffing it to compensate.

try playing a condi reaper and see what it feels like to get pushed by a thief, it’s just as bad as facing a tempest. Thief is not THAT bad, warrior, on the other hand, is useless garbage.

Firebird.8324:

try playing a condi reaper and see what it feels like to get pushed by a thief, it’s just as bad as facing a tempest. Thief is not THAT bad, warrior, on the other hand, is useless garbage.

You should not be losing to a thief 1v1 on any class.

Azukas.1426:

Firebird.8324:

try playing a condi reaper and see what it feels like to get pushed by a thief, it’s just as bad as facing a tempest. Thief is not THAT bad, warrior, on the other hand, is useless garbage.

You should not be losing to a thief 1v1 on any class.

Tell that to the many ppl I’ve 1v1ed and beat

Azukas.1426:

Firebird.8324:

try playing a condi reaper and see what it feels like to get pushed by a thief, it’s just as bad as facing a tempest. Thief is not THAT bad, warrior, on the other hand, is useless garbage.

You should not be losing to a thief 1v1 on any class.

thats not 100% true. i may not be as epic or as nerdy as you guys in pvp, i recently just hit rank 80 (yay me!) and i am close to 1k games on thief. as a staff thief I have managed to kill a lot of there’s OP specs including condi reaper, its not because my enemy’s were bad, its because of escapist absolution and deliberating ark, if timed right you can pretty much have close to 0 condi presure on you and when they do chill, just shadow step/return. staff #3 and #4 are so good for 1v1 fights. now i just need to learn how to slow thier life force regen down.

style.6173:

Of course both professions are broken right now. I’m hoping to see buffs to both of those classes with targeted nerfs to others.

Buffing won’t fix something that’s broken and doesn’t work. A redesign is needed. Just look at warrior trait lines. They’re terrible

I think thief is better than warrior,
because when my team have a warrior we lose the game 80%,
and too many cheating pre-made teams now,
likes kittening 3 diamons+2 ambers,
but the most important thing is No balence.
Wellcomes to the bunkers war 2!!

Shovel Face.4512:

Azukas.1426:

Firebird.8324:

try playing a condi reaper and see what it feels like to get pushed by a thief, it’s just as bad as facing a tempest. Thief is not THAT bad, warrior, on the other hand, is useless garbage.

You should not be losing to a thief 1v1 on any class.

Tell that to the many ppl I’ve 1v1ed and beat

Back when S/D thief hard countered mesmer I beat a lot of S/D thieves. Get my point?

The only reason i stopped playing thief is because of the whining.

You can play your role to perfection and dominate during that game, but still…. ppl would whine whenever anything goes wrong.

Its human nature; whenever ppl fail they start to look for excuses. OP classes, teammates being kitten/ playing weak classes etc.

thief need some revamp, but not in dmg. i would say take 20% of his dmg, 20% of mobility and give him more defence, the he should be fine

Azukas.1426:

Firebird.8324:

try playing a condi reaper and see what it feels like to get pushed by a thief, it’s just as bad as facing a tempest. Thief is not THAT bad, warrior, on the other hand, is useless garbage.

You should not be losing to a thief 1v1 on any class.

Spec’d right, a thief has a decent chance to beat condi rev, its probably the only class they can 1v1.

LotuS.4378:

thief need some revamp, but not in dmg. i would say take 20% of his dmg, 20% of mobility and give him more defence, the he should be fine

noo.. the damage is lacking on some weapons. On staff, damage is good, but other weapon sets like s/d is sorely lacking.

as far as mobility, lots of classes have enough mobility that if the thief is off by a little he won’t get the decap. Think druid and ele and rev/guard with teleport. Its just that many players are too lazy to try to keep track of the thief…. most players want things handed to them on a silver platter… Thief mobility is fine.

s/d would good if they raised the AA the same speed as rev/warroir

Michael.9517:

Azukas.1426:

Firebird.8324:

try playing a condi reaper and see what it feels like to get pushed by a thief, it’s just as bad as facing a tempest. Thief is not THAT bad, warrior, on the other hand, is useless garbage.

You should not be losing to a thief 1v1 on any class.

Spec’d right, a thief has a decent chance to beat condi rev, its probably the only class they can 1v1.

And what spec is this persay b/c when I play condi rev I don’t see this.

And I suck.

Azukas.1426:

Michael.9517:

Azukas.1426:

Firebird.8324:

try playing a condi reaper and see what it feels like to get pushed by a thief, it’s just as bad as facing a tempest. Thief is not THAT bad, warrior, on the other hand, is useless garbage.

You should not be losing to a thief 1v1 on any class.

Spec’d right, a thief has a decent chance to beat condi rev, its probably the only class they can 1v1.

And what spec is this persay b/c when I play condi rev I don’t see this.

And I suck.

u just don’t play against good thieves…. Its not a walk in the park, but when i’m on thief, I consider fighting condi rev’s. It’s not something I automatically run away from.

If you play it right it’s not but it is harder. IMO the problem with thief is that you can’t gank, like ever. Between the reveals and the tanks, its hard to pick someone off. Warrior just straight up needs a buff. I don’t know what but it does. It was easy mode, but now it just does everything worse

apharma.3741:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Honestly, I’d love to see the reactive gameplay that S/D somewhat brought getting more attention from devs. You should legitimately be rewarded with more damage or added effects everytime you successfully evade. Let there be some sort of penalty for dodge spamming aside from just endurance loss (DD can basically top up their dodges repeatedly every 10-15s). There just needs to be more emphasis on skill rather than just builds (which are important as well).

Build wars 2 needs to go T.T.

I agree with this, for me the reward of 400hp on successfully dodging an attack, once a second is just stupid. Either the ICD needs to go or for it to be increased substantially, same with the other on evading an attack. I do however not want to ever see old SD back at all, ever. I’d rather have hambow and blinding ashes celementalists than that.

Old S/D was broken, I’ll agree. I just wish they’d finally give thief a legitimate form of defense.

Necros have a second HP bar to manage.

Mesmers have invulns + stealth + blocks + a ton of CC.

Ele and engi have a ton of skills to juggle and make use of for varying combo fields and finishers.

Guardian has blocks.

Ranger usually has range and (somewhat) interference from their pet.

Warrior is the only class designed to just facetank and keep swinging and even they have better survivability than thief. The only reason warriors are feeling the burn of the power creep the most is because their primary counters (invuln, evades, CC) have been tossed around in spades.

What does thief have? A few more dodges than everyone else and stealth. Honestly, I think thief needs parries or some sort of reactive form of defense similar to a guardian’s block for use in direct combat. If stealth is nerfed as a result of that, I wouldn’t mind. Sure, in the conquest game mode, thief is the perfect backcapper (not so much nowadays with all the bunkers and revenants running around), but thief needs to at least be able to completely dominate 1v1 without resorting to nearly 0 counterplay stealth (well, rev and gyro exists but they’re not that hard to dodge/predict).

As leeto stated….the problem isnt thieves or warrior. The problem is that other classes do more with less effort.

SlayerSixx.5763:

but thief needs to at least be able to completely dominate 1v1 without resorting to nearly 0 counterplay stealth (well, rev and gyro exists but they’re not that hard to dodge/predict).

I can’t as a D/D thief – I’m a melee fighter and don’t have an extra dodge (I need other stuff from the other trait lines). Stealth already had counter play but it was obviously to hard to understand (AA is) – so thieves had to be kicked out of this game – seems fair.

Jana.6831:

SlayerSixx.5763:

but thief needs to at least be able to completely dominate 1v1 without resorting to nearly 0 counterplay stealth (well, rev and gyro exists but they’re not that hard to dodge/predict).

I can’t as a D/D thief – I’m a melee fighter and don’t have an extra dodge (I need other stuff from the other trait lines). Stealth already had counter play but it was obviously to hard to understand (AA is) – so thieves had to be kicked out of this game – seems fair.

Like many AA need target….sure that’s definitely work against stealthed targets, another gem of knowledge from thieves as ofc…they’re the most skilled players in GW2, stealth spam reset takes so much skill and that’s why tanky builds are op…-_-

It’s been 3 years’ supreme, now that you can kill thief’s why continue your crusade?

Highlie.7641:

It’s been 3 years’ supreme, now that you can kill thief’s why continue your crusade?

It’s not my own crusade , it is in everybody interest to see no mega buffs on thieves. Luckily the devs still remember what happens when you fall for the crocodile tears of MMO players…in thief case we had : dodge spammer and pistolwhip hero with lyssa runes, in mesmer case we have alacrity mesmer etc etc….

Game Design Rule n1: Never listen to common players feedback

Supreme.3164:

Game Design Rule n1: Never listen to common players feedback

True – that’s why no one should listen to you as well and an auto attack doesn’t need a target.

Jana.6831:

Supreme.3164:

Game Design Rule n1: Never listen to common players feedback

True – that’s why no one should listen to you as well and an auto attack doesn’t need a target.

Right back at you!

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scepter

All ele scepter AA need a target…get a clue

No, it doesn’t – I hit an untargeted mob with it- can’t test it on stealthed enemies right now though. But I guess a halfway smart player is able to hit into the air with anything they’ve got. A few Revenant skills need a target, yes, but not their #1 skill.

Jana.6831:

SlayerSixx.5763:

but thief needs to at least be able to completely dominate 1v1 without resorting to nearly 0 counterplay stealth (well, rev and gyro exists but they’re not that hard to dodge/predict).

I can’t as a D/D thief – I’m a melee fighter and don’t have an extra dodge (I need other stuff from the other trait lines). Stealth already had counter play but it was obviously to hard to understand (AA is) – so thieves had to be kicked out of this game – seems fair.

Right, just spam autos in a circle. Certainly reliable and a great way to whiff thieves. It isn’t like the thief actually has to walk into your autos, otherwise you’ll hit nothing and eat w.e burst.

Also, you’re playing D/D. That’s mistake #1 tbh.

Well considering you post in every single thread about thieves, It’s your personal crusade.
You Also assume that every thief wants to be OP, and more hilarious yet you think thieves will get “Mega Buffed”, You know if you read any of the threads you posted in you would see the majority of thieves want small targeted buff’s.

You do realize both the “Op spec’s” you listed have/had legitamte counters. there is this amazing profession called necromancer /mesmer that can strip boons, making your “Pistol whip hero” build obsolete, again you can simply walk out of pistol whip…

As for your “dodge spamming” remark, please learn what CC is, and for the last time. the evade frame on FS is now 1/2 second (down from 3/4 due to excessive whining)

Highlie.7641:

Well considering you post in every single thread about thieves, It’s your personal crusade.
You Also assume that every thief wants to be OP, and more hilarious yet you think thieves will get “Mega Buffed”, You know if you read any of the threads you posted in you would see the majority of thieves want small targeted buff’s.

You do realize both the “Op spec’s” you listed have/had legitamte counters. there is this amazing profession called necromancer /mesmer that can strip boons, making your “Pistol whip hero” build obsolete, again you can simply walk out of pistol whip…

As for your “dodge spamming” remark, please learn what CC is, and for the last time. the evade frame on FS is now 1/2 second (down from 3/4 due to excessive whining)

Right because everybody plays a necro who sit on his wells on top of which a bad thief usually land or a mesmer that was taken out of high tier by thieves anyway.
Also you must have missed the part about old lyssa runes which made low amount CC professions completely useless as the thief was gaining aegis+stab on demand every 36s on top of clearing all condis

And legitimate counters…yeah thieves have always legitimate counters, is always everybody else who need to learn how to play

P.S And for the last time check my post history, I denounce any kind of victory achieved through mindless youtube copy/paste rotation, be it thief, ele or whatever

Thief needs no buffs if you look GW2 as whole, with all gamemodes
-thief sustain is fine that stealth reset is alive and well
-thief dmg is fine, those 5k+ hits on you wearing over 1800 toughness are not imagination
-thief still cancel out majority of burst builds

I’d rather delete the faceroll mode on other professions that add one to thieves where it’d be several time worst in the end

Supreme.3164:

-thief still cancel out majority of burst builds

Noone is playing a burst build these days tho.

Locuz.2651:

Supreme.3164:

-thief still cancel out majority of burst builds

Noone is playing a burst build these days tho.

That’s because Anet is content with nerfing the object of QQ rather than create build diversity with objective buffs

Your Biased and don’t even realize it.

you’ve used those same arguments to defend other professions….

“create build diversity with objective buffs” No that’s just powercreep, take a look around it’s worked wonderfully so far right…

Objective buffs= “Buffs intended to rectify the quality of elements made obsolete by the evolution of gameplay”

That’s to say buffs to underused skills/utilities, bring them on par with the strong elements of the same profession, then tone down what stands up too much

To put this in numbers:

1) Build A is 10
2) Build B & C are 4
3) You buff B & C to 8
4) You nerf A to 8

General buff is what anet usually does instead : " we pick QQ threads over the forum and nerf things so the community is happy…till next round of overbuff that will be delivered to compensate for the overnerfs we do now"

Basically you lot will consider the game to be balanced as long as your favourite cookie cutter build works against anything ( and by anything…I mean anything ).