Guild Wars 2

I am sick of this exploit. Whenever a thief does this, I may as well give in since it will be impossible to compete. I don’t play a thief, so I don’t know what these skills are but I’ll do my best to explain how it works.

A Thief goes to the Ruins cp. Then they keep using this skill to evade and deal damage. I believe it is Shadow Assault. They will keep spamming this skill, and since the channeling is so huge, their initiative recovery almost makes up for the usage. Almost.

When they run out of initiative, They use Hide in Shadows. I assume other factors are involved as well, but this basically allowed the thief to just sit and hardly ever take any damage, while at the same time becoming a wall of blades. Yeah, they don’t deal that much damage, but they don’t need to. There’s 4-5 sharks helping them out.

I saw that there is a similar thread here, but its in the Thief section

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Nerf-Shadow-Assault-sPVP

I see that a moderator said in this thread

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-underwater-evasion-exploit-NEEDS-FIX-NOW

that the issue was “Solved.” That was 4 days ago. Its not solved at all. I had it happen 2 hours ago.

It is not an exploit, and I, and many others, will call you a clown until you realise this.

Require a change for sPvP? Probably.

Exploit? no.

oh no, someone on the forums threatened me! I have to go cry now!

an exploit, by definition, is when you find a beneficial, but unintended side effect from something. If you honestly believe that this near-invulnerability was intended, if you honestly believe that Arenanet sat down and said “Lets allow the thieves to never take damage as long as they do this, this and this” then yes, you are correct. But if you have even the shred of common sense to think “Oh wait, there’s no way this is right” then yes, this is an exploit.

Exploit is when you find an enemy capping your node on foefire before timer hits 5 seconds. Or teleporting from the ground just below the treb in Kyhlo up, and back down constantly during a fight.

Kita.7819:

if you honestly believe that Arenanet sat down and said “Lets allow the thieves to never take damage as long as they do this, this and this” then yes, you are correct.

Thanks, I’m correct then, because I think this is working perflects as intended – For PvE.

I think the PvP aspect of it was overlooked during the design phase and it’s power wasnt realised. So yeah, the PvP aspect likely needs to change. It is not an exploit.

yes, not being warped back to the spawn by make a dodge roll is an unintended side effect of making a dodge roll outside of the spawn.

If there was a skill that gave permanent invulnerability, but didn’t say so, you guys would consider it an exploit. But a few skills and utility cobbled together that give permanent invulnerability isn’t?

It’s not an exploit, it’s just a really stupid ability.

Underwater abilities in general are really quite unbalanced and this is just the pinnacle.

Until they fix it, simply avoid the ruins if there’s a Thief there.

Paranoid.9542:

Kita.7819:

if you honestly believe that Arenanet sat down and said “Lets allow the thieves to never take damage as long as they do this, this and this” then yes, you are correct.

Thanks, I’m correct then, because I think this is working perflects as intended – For PvE.

I think the PvP aspect of it was overlooked during the design phase and it’s power wasnt realised. So yeah, the PvP aspect likely needs to change. It is not an exploit.

Even in PVE? Because its perfectly natural for someone to never be harmed while attacking. If this is your belief, then please just leave. We’re trying to fix a problem, not fuel the fire.

It’s not a bug. It cannot be an exploit. I’m 100% certain it’s not working as intended, but this is one of the reasons why this map is not in the tournament rotation. I’m sorry to say this but anyone who goes into the water on that kitten map is asking to get killed. There are so many things wrong with it that I can’t help but wonder how it got into the normal map rotation even.

Also I’d be pretty upset as a serious TPvPer if that map got any fixes before REAL fixes were implemented.

tl:dr That map isn’t real. If you go in the water you deserve to die. Water combat LOL

Kita.7819:

Even in PVE? Because its perfectly natural for someone to never be harmed while attacking. If this is your belief, then please just leave. We’re trying to fix a problem, not fuel the fire.

The only thing I object to about your numerous posts is calling it an exploit, when it isn’t. Just call it an imbalanced ability like a level headed person and I, and others, will be much more supportive.

Until then, continue to cry please.

Kita.7819:

Paranoid.9542:

Kita.7819:

if you honestly believe that Arenanet sat down and said “Lets allow the thieves to never take damage as long as they do this, this and this” then yes, you are correct.

Thanks, I’m correct then, because I think this is working perflects as intended – For PvE.

I think the PvP aspect of it was overlooked during the design phase and it’s power wasnt realised. So yeah, the PvP aspect likely needs to change. It is not an exploit.

Even in PVE? Because its perfectly natural for someone to never be harmed while attacking. If this is your belief, then please just leave. We’re trying to fix a problem, not fuel the fire.

Why are you being so defensive? Everybody more or less agreed with you: the ability is dumb and probably not working as intended in PvP.

I think your choice of words (exploit, in this case) is the issue people are having. It’s not an exploit. It’s using an ability that’s probably not working as intended.

And, for the record, you CAN pretty much spam it indefinitely with the right build.

nldixon.8514:

Kita.7819:

Paranoid.9542:

Kita.7819:

if you honestly believe that Arenanet sat down and said “Lets allow the thieves to never take damage as long as they do this, this and this” then yes, you are correct.

Thanks, I’m correct then, because I think this is working perflects as intended – For PvE.

I think the PvP aspect of it was overlooked during the design phase and it’s power wasnt realised. So yeah, the PvP aspect likely needs to change. It is not an exploit.

Even in PVE? Because its perfectly natural for someone to never be harmed while attacking. If this is your belief, then please just leave. We’re trying to fix a problem, not fuel the fire.

Why are you being so defensive? Everybody more or less agreed with you: the ability is dumb and probably not working as intended in PvP.

I think your choice of words (exploit, in this case) is the issue people are having. It’s not an exploit. It’s using an ability that’s probably not working as intended.

And, for the record, you CAN pretty much spam it indefinitely with the right build.

And when you use it in this type of situation, its called an exploit. You’re exploiting the thing that’s “not working as intended” to your advantage.

Kita.7819:

Paranoid.9542:

Kita.7819:

Even in PVE? Because its perfectly natural for someone to never be harmed while attacking. If this is your belief, then please just leave. We’re trying to fix a problem, not fuel the fire.

The only thing I object to about your numerous posts is calling it an exploit, when it isn’t. Just call it an imbalanced ability like a level headed person and I’ll be much more supportive.

Until then, continue to cry please.

except its not an ability at all. Its a set of abilities and utilities. Judging by your behavior and refusal to call it as it is, and by all your old posts, I’m sure you love exploiting – oh no, I said that word again! – this every chance you get. Am I correct?

I don’t really need the “support” from someone like you. Its a good thing we can ignore other people’s posts.

I was on your side up until this post.

Its just an ability (or set of abilities) not working as ‘intended’. It’s not an exploit (not like teleporting below the ground and killing people who can’t hit you back) its just an abuse of power.

Call it abuse, call it not working as intended, but not an exploit.

On the occasions that I play that map, I dont go in the water, like a sane person.

Kita.7819:

nldixon.8514:

Kita.7819:

Paranoid.9542:

Kita.7819:

if you honestly believe that Arenanet sat down and said “Lets allow the thieves to never take damage as long as they do this, this and this” then yes, you are correct.

Thanks, I’m correct then, because I think this is working perflects as intended – For PvE.

I think the PvP aspect of it was overlooked during the design phase and it’s power wasnt realised. So yeah, the PvP aspect likely needs to change. It is not an exploit.

Even in PVE? Because its perfectly natural for someone to never be harmed while attacking. If this is your belief, then please just leave. We’re trying to fix a problem, not fuel the fire.

Why are you being so defensive? Everybody more or less agreed with you: the ability is dumb and probably not working as intended in PvP.

I think your choice of words (exploit, in this case) is the issue people are having. It’s not an exploit. It’s using an ability that’s probably not working as intended.

And, for the record, you CAN pretty much spam it indefinitely with the right build.

And when you use it in this type of situation, its called an exploit. You’re exploiting the thing that’s “not working as intended” to your advantage.

Why are you even talking about this? Report it as a bug or suggest that it gets changed right here on the forum. It’s a problem, but that map is an afterthought in the grand scheme of things. They aspire to make this game into an E-Sport and have a lot of promises to keep and are working hard to implement them. Meanwhile this insignificant problem is being aggrod by you. Honestly I’m entertained. I’ve done this before on my thief, and I can tell you that it’s only really possible to keep it going near indefinitely if you have the traits for it.

Hot joins are a joke though. The moment I was satisfied on my thief I went into the real pvp. TPvP. I could care less about an extremely broken map that was added during the last stress tests. Do you even know how many people CRIED and POSTED EVERYWHERE to make sure that Capricorn didn’t get in the tournament rotation? Please stop posting. That map isn’t real.

Kita.7819:

nldixon.8514:

Kita.7819:

Paranoid.9542:

Kita.7819:

if you honestly believe that Arenanet sat down and said “Lets allow the thieves to never take damage as long as they do this, this and this” then yes, you are correct.

Thanks, I’m correct then, because I think this is working perflects as intended – For PvE.

I think the PvP aspect of it was overlooked during the design phase and it’s power wasnt realised. So yeah, the PvP aspect likely needs to change. It is not an exploit.

Even in PVE? Because its perfectly natural for someone to never be harmed while attacking. If this is your belief, then please just leave. We’re trying to fix a problem, not fuel the fire.

Why are you being so defensive? Everybody more or less agreed with you: the ability is dumb and probably not working as intended in PvP.

I think your choice of words (exploit, in this case) is the issue people are having. It’s not an exploit. It’s using an ability that’s probably not working as intended.

And, for the record, you CAN pretty much spam it indefinitely with the right build.

And when you use it in this type of situation, its called an exploit. You’re exploiting the thing that’s “not working as intended” to your advantage.

Alright, done.

You’re funny though.

This is just full of retardation, do you think Heartseeker spammers are exploiting? Well it’s exactly the same but you’re spamming 2 instead of 5…

Whoa, I do not know what is up with all the hate between forum posters … sheesh.

On the bright side, think of this ability in a different light … the thief is essentially self rooted for the entirety of the ability, it only has a relatively small area of effect and the runes capture point is relatively large. A single dodge should be able to get you out of the way easily while the thief just floats around for a few seconds, and you are still within the capture zone. A thief spamming this ability is essentially playing a bunker role, and like any other bunker role you should not expect to be able to take them out quickly 1v1 … especially if they own the zone and there are sharks afoot. So be sure to take a friend or two, especially for the underwater control abilities … land one of those, unload a little and the thief is nearly done for.

One thing I haven’t tested yet is whether or not the evasion of the ability temporarily removes the thief’s capture ability like stealth and mist form seem to do … if that is the case then really the thief is just wasting their own time as long as you can manage to cleanse any snares and dodge.

Edit: their → there

Allarius.5670:

Whoa, I do not know what is up with all the hate between forum posters … sheesh.

Because when it comes to multiplayer games, the e-word to some people is equivalent to calling someone a ni—er.

Its not like I see this is a bannable offense. It is what it is. The extent of the damage only lasts as long as the match, not to mention it can be stopped eventually. Not like the chili poppers which could only be stopped by the devs.

Also no, it doesn’t prevent them from capping a point. A few games ago I saw a thief that would only do this. They’d leave the spawn and head straight to the ruins every time.

Thief can’t do damage underwater as fast as other classes can.

Unless its a glass canon, which in that case you can range them and dodge the sharks.

DODGE the sharks.
If they switch to the harpoon gun, rush in to them n mele them down.

You can spam it yes, You need to have initiative regen to spam it, but its not an exploit.
I think the 3 key gives you back regen actually if you time it right. You know, actually now that I think of it, not allot of people know hot to fight under water in pvp as well as they do on land yet.

Oh also, If you’re a glass cannon your self or weak in general and are hoping to take ruins with sharks on you while being attacked by the defender, well, good luck.

But don’t come to the forums and complain.
These forums are starting to look like the kids corner.

It must be purely coincidental that everyone that’s mocked me so far mains a thief and knows all too much about this exploit. People can’t be this indecent, right?

No, Kita, no one cares enough to insult you, but you have to understand to abuse a skill and an exploit are two different things. Going under the world is an exploit. Using a skill in an op way is just OP.

If you were to post… “hey this harpoon thief skill that evades is a little op” I think people would give you some constructive feedback.

But you just jump in to it with complaints and to most it comes off like crying, and its annoying.

Whats even more annoying is all the people kittening about the recent patch changes.

I apologize if you feel that I mocked you, I was genuinely only trying to be helpful. I’ve played a thief recently to see what they are all about, but I actually main an ele in sPvP.

I tried this very tactic to take the ruins and defend them when I was checking out the thief. It is silly effective against people that try to melee you or do not fully understand what is going on (I certainly did not the first few times I encountered it). But like someone else posted, range the thief and be prepared for a long fight.

The initiative mechanic is interesting, I’m not sure how I feel about it. It promotes spamming for many folks. This is unfortunate because there is sooo much more to the thief than spamming. If anything I think it is supposed to promote an impromptu style of fighting but falls short with the spammers.

@Mandra Yeah, going under the world on purpose is an exploit … doing it on accident is a horrible inconvenience. When this happens to me I want to laugh and cry at the same time.

It’s not “an exploit” as most gamers come to identify exploits. And honestly, the word has lost a lot of meaning. Back in UO/DAOC days an exploit was a bug/glitch/loophole people exploited for their own benefit. Like on UO when Riding Swipe was bugged and would insta-kill people – that was an exploit. Nowadays anything from a hack to a bug to purposefully utilizing a bug is an exploit.

In any case, the Thieves exploit the long-duration invulnerability. Is that better?

Funny how this continues to be allowed but Eles got Whirlpool nerfed. :P

It’s too strong as it is now but sinks and floats can go through the evasion effect.

ive reported them and have screen shots

This thread accomplishes nothing. Because you don’t truly acknowledge it as an exploit because you would report this in the bug forum, and you don’t REALLY want it to get changed because you would suggest that in the suggestions forum.

OP is accomplishing nothing.

Haku.5068:

This thread accomplishes nothing. Because you don’t truly acknowledge it as an exploit because you would report this in the bug forum, and you don’t REALLY want it to get changed because you would suggest that in the suggestions forum.

OP is accomplishing nothing.

well what did you accomplish If I may ask?

Mandra Madador.1709:

Haku.5068:

This thread accomplishes nothing. Because you don’t truly acknowledge it as an exploit because you would report this in the bug forum, and you don’t REALLY want it to get changed because you would suggest that in the suggestions forum.

OP is accomplishing nothing.

well what did you accomplish If I may ask?

Entertaining myself and exercising my fingers on my fairly new Steelseries 6Gv2 inbetween tournament stomps.

Shadow Assault is awesome. It evades while you channel and does a LOT damage to your target, it’s pretty great for underwater encounters. It’s even better when you have control and the sharks are on your side. I love it!

ok..

Sorry Kita, what ever your goal was in posting this, I imagine you didn’t find your answer.
Better luck next time wording your stuff

I’m not looking for an answer, I’m looking to form conversation. Instead I got 2 thieves vehemently trying to defend an exploit. I’m sure I’ll get that once you get bored.

Kita.7819:

I’m not looking for an answer, I’m looking to form conversation. Instead I got 2 thieves vehemently trying to defend an exploit. I’m sure I’ll get that once you get bored.

I doubt you’ll get any kind of meaningful conversation. You have a really bad attitude. People explained the situation to you and you got defensive and nasty. It’s not an exploit, despite your best efforts at making it seem like one.

For the record, I main a Ranger and not a Thief.

Kita, stop.

People were not defending the ability. they are trying ot point out to you the difference between exploit and abuse (or not working as intended).

that the issue being argued about, but your so petutently stuck on the fact that you got killed by this that you are red flagging what peopleare trying to point out to you.

THIS IS NOT AN EXPLOIT

A stupidly, dumb mechanic, but not an exploit.

exploit:

— n
1. a notable deed or feat, esp one that is noble or heroic

— vb
2. to take advantage of (a person, situation, etc), esp unethically or unjustly for one’s own ends
3. to make the best use of: to exploit natural resources

[C14: from Old French: accomplishment, from Latin explicitum (something) unfolded, from explic?re to explicate ]

ironic that both parties are using different definitions and meaning the same thing and getting mad about it.

its an ability that is over powered and people are using it to there advantage with the full knowledge that it is over powered

holding a node against all 4 or 5 people who do not know how to beat this strategy is heroic and noble

it is a natural resource of the thief therefore he is exploiting it

Psychrome.9281:

exploit:

— n
1. a notable deed or feat, esp one that is noble or heroic

— vb
2. to take advantage of (a person, situation, etc), esp unethically or unjustly for one’s own ends
3. to make the best use of: to exploit natural resources

[C14: from Old French: accomplishment, from Latin explicitum (something) unfolded, from explic?re to explicate ]

ironic that both parties are using different definitions and meaning the same thing and getting mad about it.

its an ability that is over powered and people are using it to there advantage with the full knowledge that it is over powered

holding a node against all 4 or 5 people who do not know how to beat this strategy is heroic and noble

it is a natural resource of the thief therefore he is exploiting it

While that context is not entirely wrong, people have used the work exploit in video games to denote someone using something (unintentional) that normal players do not have access for personal gain.

It is valid that people are saying that this is not an exploit. While by ‘text’ book it is also a valid definition, the thing is that ‘every’ thief can do this, so not just one thief out of a pool of 100 is exactly gaining an advantage above the rest. Every thief gets access to it.

teviko.6049:

Psychrome.9281:

exploit:

— n
1. a notable deed or feat, esp one that is noble or heroic

— vb
2. to take advantage of (a person, situation, etc), esp unethically or unjustly for one’s own ends
3. to make the best use of: to exploit natural resources

[C14: from Old French: accomplishment, from Latin explicitum (something) unfolded, from explic?re to explicate ]

ironic that both parties are using different definitions and meaning the same thing and getting mad about it.

its an ability that is over powered and people are using it to there advantage with the full knowledge that it is over powered

holding a node against all 4 or 5 people who do not know how to beat this strategy is heroic and noble

it is a natural resource of the thief therefore he is exploiting it

While that context is not entirely wrong, people have used the work exploit in video games to denote someone using something (unintentional) that normal players do not have access for personal gain.

It is valid that people are saying that this is not an exploit. While by ‘text’ book it is also a valid definition, the thing is that ‘every’ thief can do this, so not just one thief out of a pool of 100 is exactly gaining an advantage above the rest. Every thief gets access to it.

legit

Kita.7819:

They will keep spamming this skill, and since the channeling is so huge, their initiative recovery almost makes up for the usage. Almost.

Apart from this, they steal an egg from sharks. The egg gives them a full inititive bar. That’s why you see them spamming Shadow Assault so much.

Although this is, yet, another balance problem related to the spammy nature of the initiative system; if you give thives spammable strong skills such as finisher hard hitting skills, stun skills, chain blind skills, stealth+daze combos that are potentially able to be casted several times in a row… achieving an expected and tolerable balance will be extremely hard to do.
Instead of tweaking something inherently problematic, deal with the problems from the roots of it, I say.
(hint: I’m talking about the Initiative mechanic)

Khenzy.9348:

Kita.7819:

They will keep spamming this skill, and since the channeling is so huge, their initiative recovery almost makes up for the usage. Almost.

Apart from this, they steal an egg from sharks. The egg gives them a full inititive bar. That’s why you see them spamming Shadow Assault so much.

Although this is, yet, another balance problem related to the spammy nature of the initiative system; if you give thives spammable strong skills such as finisher hard hitting skills, stun skills, chain blind skills, stealth+daze combos that are potentially able to be casted several times in a row… achieving an expected and tolerable balance will be extremely hard to do.
Instead of tweaking something inherently problematic, deal with the problems from the roots of it, I say.
(hint: I’m talking about the Initiative mechanic)

I’m fairly certain that the problem is that Raid of the Capricorn wasn’t shipped finished. Water combat wasn’t ready.

Khenzy.9348:

Kita.7819:

They will keep spamming this skill, and since the channeling is so huge, their initiative recovery almost makes up for the usage. Almost.

Apart from this, they steal an egg from sharks. The egg gives them a full inititive bar. That’s why you see them spamming Shadow Assault so much.

Although this is, yet, another balance problem related to the spammy nature of the initiative system; if you give thives spammable strong skills such as finisher hard hitting skills, stun skills, chain blind skills, stealth+daze combos that are potentially able to be casted several times in a row… achieving an expected and tolerable balance will be extremely hard to do.
Instead of tweaking something inherently problematic, deal with the problems from the roots of it, I say.
(hint: I’m talking about the Initiative mechanic)

The thing is, most of Thieves’ weapon sets have 1 damage dealing skill and 3 utilities/CCs, and of course the autoattack. But Spear changes things up a bit boasting 2 attack skills (other then Auto-attack, and both of which have Evade as a side effect) a rather punishing block counter and 1 utility skill.

It’s not a bug. It cannot be an exploit. I’m 100% certain it’s not working as intended, but this is one of the reasons why this map is not in the tournament rotation. I’m sorry to say this but anyone who goes into the water on that kitten map is asking to get killed. There are so many things wrong with it that I can’t help but wonder how it got into the normal map rotation even.

Also I’d be pretty upset as a serious TPvPer if that map got any fixes before REAL fixes were implemented.

tl:dr That map isn’t real. If you go in the water you deserve to die. Water combat LOL

I have no trouble with underwater combat on any of my 6 toons. Maybe it is people like you that simply cannot adjust to it that allow me to win so much in underwater combat.

I would be having a ball in tourny’s if that map got added to the rotation.

Paranoid.9542:

On the occasions that I play that map, I dont go in the water, like a sane person.

BAM!

I am an Elementalist and even I find the ruins a waste of time. Sure, I can go there and unload some pretty impressive damage, especially with my Whirlpool, but then what? I knock out a few people, I kill a bunch of sharks, but I won’t be capping the point. It takes a minute to finish someone off for 5 Glory (instead of 15 on land). Capping the point might get me 15 points, but the second I leave, someone takes it back. Defending ruins is a waste of time, outside of a Tournament.

Just run back and forth between beach and docks and you will get 5x more Glory than you would if you spend any time fighting at ruins.

Make the ruins a small island outside of the water and everything would be better.

BAM!

I am an Elementalist and even I find the ruins a waste of time. Sure, I can go there and unload some pretty impressive damage, especially with my Whirlpool, but then what? I knock out a few people, I kill a bunch of sharks, but I won’t be capping the point. It takes a minute to finish someone off for 5 Glory (instead of 15 on land). Capping the point might get me 15 points, but the second I leave, someone takes it back. Defending ruins is a waste of time, outside of a Tournament.

Just run back and forth between beach and docks and you will get 5x more Glory than you would if you spend any time fighting at ruins.

Make the ruins a small island outside of the water and everything would be better.

People who say that refuse to go into the water because they cant deal with it or say that iti spointless to cap the point are the ones that make you lose that match. I have been in matches , a lot even where my entire team just rushed the dock or the beach giving your oponent team 1 extra free point throughout the match.

Something people dont understand about it is that once you have it it is very easy to defend even if 3 people come in to take it from you. All it takes is 1 person to guard it to be able to hold it for a meaningfull time , sometimes even the entire match.

I have ended up top player so many times just doing that but whenever i noticed that they just gave up on it i would leave my post and fight on the other 2 points keeping a eye on the ruins whenever i could.

When it comes to underwater combat i dunno i had some issue with it in the beginning and didnt like it much but the opposite is true now that i have gotten to grips with it.

Working as intended, balance is pretty good atm ololo

Except for whirlpool ofcourse. That was far lamer underwater and deserved 33% nerf way more kekek

oh no, someone on the forums threatened me! I have to go cry now!

an exploit, by definition, is when you find a beneficial, but unintended side effect from something. If you honestly believe that this near-invulnerability was intended, if you honestly believe that Arenanet sat down and said “Lets allow the thieves to never take damage as long as they do this, this and this” then yes, you are correct. But if you have even the shred of common sense to think “Oh wait, there’s no way this is right” then yes, this is an exploit.

Classic exploit vs clever use of game mechanics discussion. People will always use that which suits them best.

We should describe this issue as ‘overpowered’ instead. You’d got more of both sides to agree on this i’d say.

I play a thief. I use this ability, and I’m sure it annoys people. But you have an incomplete understanding of the mechanics. It isn’t a terribly cheap skill to use. Even with an expanded initiative pool and initiative regeneration, a thief can use it at most 5 times in a row. With stealthing I can increase it to about seven times.

Is the skill powerful? Yes. A skill that allows you that much evade is powerful. But once I’m out of initiative, I’m dead in the water (quite literally) because all theif skills except #1 use initiative. Thief underwater abilities (like the underwater abilities of many classes) are underwhelming at best, and this is one of the only good abilities we have. (if you are serious about underwater power, you should also start a thread concerning Engineers and their underwater turrets and grenades).

Now, as far as a counter, someone else pointed out that “evade” is not “inveunerability.” Several skills, including some AoEs (admittedly, there aren’t many underwater AoEs) can push through evade. Sinking/floating enemies is one (and it seriously sucks to be evading and get physic’d like that). Another point to consider is that when a theif goes stealth, they no longer count towards the “capture” population of the circle, allowing their opponents to make a little progress. Also, another good counter is to back it up. If you’re using exclusively melee attacks underwater, you’re missing half your skills, and you’re playing right into this particular theif strategy. Back up to where they can’t hit you and let them have it with your ranged attacks. They can’t evade forever (like you seemed to imply earlier), and if you’re out of their range it’s only a delaying tactic for the theif… they will have to fight you eventually (and without a significant chunk of their initiative).

Now, admittedly, the sharks pose a problem, because you can’t just wait for them to get done… the sharks will eat you. But theives themselves aren’t good underwater fighters (in my estimation). I know you may be frustrated with thiefs taking advantage of their options, but realize that in melee they don’t have very many other viable options. If ArenaNet chooses to alter the skill, or alter the map, or alter the mechanics, then you might find this strategy easier to counter. That may or may not come to pass, so I would humbly propose that thieves are not as powerful underwater as you claim… they are just very good stallers.

I play a thief. I use this ability, and I’m sure it annoys people. But you have an incomplete understanding of the mechanics. It isn’t a terribly cheap skill to use. Even with an expanded initiative pool and initiative regeneration, a thief can use it at most 5 times in a row. With stealthing I can increase it to about seven times.

Is the skill powerful? Yes. A skill that allows you that much evade is powerful. But once I’m out of initiative, I’m dead in the water (quite literally) because all theif skills except #1 use initiative.

Are you for real ?
You described the problem perfectly though.

You can only use the skill 5 to 7 times in a row so it is not a cheap skill ?
And when you are out of initiative you are dead in the water , yeah duuuh when everyone elses CD’s are all on CD they face the same problem there dude so what do you expect …to have skills that you can use after you used your initiative , how on earth can you talk like that, it almost sounds like this is your first MMO and you never played anything else other then the thief.

I came up against this just last night. It took about 5 minutes of making all the perfect moves to barely kill a theif who was spamming this ability. He sat in the middle of the node and was able to kill all the sharks and dodge every attack i tried to hit him with. He evaded my cc and my turrets couldnt hit him either. Luckily he was a troll glass cannon kid with a bad attitude and got bored and started talking in chat and ran away as soon as my cooldowns came up. I dunno if it is classified as an exploit but I will chalk it up to just one more theif broken ability that works to their advantage where as other classes broken abilities work against them…. (i main necro and engi sooooo……).

Im with op. Its exploit. But im also with everyone else who says that its your fault for going in the water when water combat is as poorly balanced as downed states.