Guild Wars 2

so some of you believe that “Thieves” are the sole reason bunkers exist. You gentlemen obviously have a short memory spam. I’ve been reading this more and more on the forum. and while this originated from the same anti thieves from launch. i’m seeing more and more random people belief this ridicules statement.

Answer me this:
Since thieves where out of the meta for a few season, why was there still bunker builds? If thieves truly are the Alpha power spec, why where they out of the meta when a power spec rev was in?

One day you will realize why your not seeing many other power spec’s, It’s painfully obvious honestly. Besides for Thieves/Rev’s Every single other power spec lacks the damage to punch through the insane amount of power creep arena net freely handed out.

Next time before whining about thieves and receiving a “Gift’s of Passive” from arena net perhaps you will locate your dodge key. and we wouldn’t be in this mess.

Don’t know about other people but I go bunker condi because of thieves.

Thieves have always defined what builds can be brought in both PvP and WvW. The only problem with your post is that you’ve only identified bunkers, when really all builds have been defined by thieves :)

Also, facts aren’t whining. This thread though?…

A thief will take your dodge and raise you another dodge!

No, people don’t play bunkers strictly because of thieves. They’re only part of why. People play bunker because sometimes they have to. It’s their only truly viable spec for top play. Another reason they have to is because the damage going out is stupid high. Thieves are part of that high damage. One more reason is because they can spec bunker while still doing ridiculous damage. Looking at your Scrappers.

If thief damage wasn’t so ridiculously high, there wouldn’t be fewer bunkers because other professions still deal ridiculously high damage, through either power, condition or both. Nerf damage, and you’ll run into season 1. Nerf defence and you’ll run into a high damage meta. Nerf both and you get balance. People won’t do too much damage or have too much defence. That’s balance. Everything being OP isn’t real balance. It’s chaos masked as balance.

My point: damage is too high, and so we need high defence builds. But defence is also too high, and so we need high damage builds. You won’t win without moderation.

I honestly think Bunkers would exist with or without Thieves, if only because of the format of sPvP being that of capturing and maintaining points.

Before, Bunker Chronos were a thing as well, and there were a few odd Bunker Druids also. The fact remains that they’re good for holding a point and not instantly getting busted by anything else running a glassy/high offensive build (thief included), and can often support their team (heals, quickness/stealth rally or stomp, ect) while surviving some focus fire.

Bunkers are a nuisance, but I think Bruisers are worse. Its one thing to have high defense/sustain and very little damage, but having constant access to high damage AND sustain is where things start to get well out of hand.

Zintrothen.1056:

A thief will take your dodge and raise you another dodge!

No, people don’t play bunkers strictly because of thieves. They’re only part of why. People play bunker because sometimes they have to. It’s their only truly viable spec for top play. Another reason they have to is because the damage going out is stupid high. Thieves are part of that high damage. One more reason is because they can spec bunker while still doing ridiculous damage. Looking at your Scrappers.

If thief damage wasn’t so ridiculously high, there wouldn’t be fewer bunkers because other professions still deal ridiculously high damage, through either power, condition or both. Nerf damage, and you’ll run into season 1. Nerf defence and you’ll run into a high damage meta. Nerf both and you get balance. People won’t do too much damage or have too much defence. That’s balance. Everything being OP isn’t real balance. It’s chaos masked as balance.

My point: damage is too high, and so we need high defence builds. But defence is also too high, and so we need high damage builds. You won’t win without moderation.

I’m mostly with you, but have to add that Thieves are the “only” high burst class left – at least if we talk about being viable in pvp.
Every other high burst (aka class cannon) class or build was nerfed or will be destroyed by the sheer number of conditions and aoe. Thieves die too, but have a lot of more options to avoid damage, reset combat or leave the area and with this they “decide where to combat and how” which is why they are pretty strong.

Anet finally needs to rework the whole system thieves work. There is no high risk, but high reward. It’s more obvious in wvw than in spvp. In spvp you bring the bunker in wvw you just leave.

I bunker because of Warriors, Necros, and Engis.

I remember the days of attack/stealth/attack/stealth. That was some time ago though.

No, I find thieves one of the less problematic classes.

Ohoni.6057:

I bunker because of Warriors, Necros, and Engis.

It’s crazy how people still cry about thieves everytime and don’t say anything about the crazy out of control damage Berserkers can deal nowadays. But then the same people would never take a thief over a warrior in ranked pvp and thieves are always listed at the bottom when talking about meta builds.

Bunkers exist because of necros is the best joke Ive heard so far. Its actually the exact opposite. Necs always have been decent against bunker mesmer bunker guards etc while they suck against powercomps

No burst class can survive (read : is not obliterated) by thieves. (true for dh also when you reach an average level of play)
And no burst class can avoid thieves due to complete broken superior mobility.

Consequence is obvious (one must be kittened not to understand it): no burst class possible in pvp except thieves.

Remain bunkers and bruisers for all 8 other prof.
But yes let’s keep buffing thieves and their perma evade spammy cheesy mechanics.

and dont forget that thieves dont get revealed when their traps trigger unlike all other classes …

Bunkers doesnt exist because thieves, but based on the fact that most zerk/marauder builds are unviable cause thief, theres nearly nothing left to play

Krysard.1364:

Bunkers doesnt exist because thieves, but based on the fact that most zerk/marauder builds are unviable cause thief, theres nearly nothing left to play

This more or less. Though I would say condition builds in the meta are currently more limiting on build choice than thieves.

apharma.3741:

Krysard.1364:

Bunkers doesnt exist because thieves, but based on the fact that most zerk/marauder builds are unviable cause thief, theres nearly nothing left to play

This more or less. Though I would say condition builds in the meta are currently more limiting on build choice than thieves.

I wont disagree with you, and thieves arent the only ones it fault, but the fact that thieves can counter most assassin type builds is what makes bruisers/holders so common

Thieves are a non factor. Look at pro league if you disagree.

The problem is and always will be classes that are tanky as kitten but can push out stupid amounts of damage.

Remember Hambow, cele ele, cele engi, etc. That’s the REAL problem and has been for a LONG time.

To blame thieves for this mess is a cop out when the real blame lies with anet

Azukas.1426:

Thieves are a non factor. Look at pro league if you disagree.

The problem is and always will be classes that are tanky as kitten but can push out stupid amounts of damage.

Remember Hambow, cele ele, cele engi, etc. That’s the REAL problem and has been for a LONG time.

To blame thieves for this mess is a cop out when the real blame lies with anet

I look at pro league and I dont see any assassin type build, which thief counters. Also, the most yolo builds, which were invo rev and wanderer warr, swapped to retribution and rabid (extra toughness) when playing against thieves.

It’s just the new PVT sorta thing to do, has nothing to do with thieves, it’s the players seeking low risk high reward builds plain and simple.

I mean, why play a build that requires skill and will punish you for mistakes when you can play another build that lets you facetank people, smash random buttons and still put you ontop of the fight?

Zintrothen.1056:

A thief will take your dodge and raise you another dodge!

No, people don’t play bunkers strictly because of thieves. They’re only part of why. People play bunker because sometimes they have to. It’s their only truly viable spec for top play. Another reason they have to is because the damage going out is stupid high. Thieves are part of that high damage. One more reason is because they can spec bunker while still doing ridiculous damage. Looking at your Scrappers.

If thief damage wasn’t so ridiculously high, there wouldn’t be fewer bunkers because other professions still deal ridiculously high damage, through either power, condition or both. Nerf damage, and you’ll run into season 1. Nerf defence and you’ll run into a high damage meta. Nerf both and you get balance. People won’t do too much damage or have too much defence. That’s balance. Everything being OP isn’t real balance. It’s chaos masked as balance.

My point: damage is too high, and so we need high defence builds. But defence is also too high, and so we need high damage builds. You won’t win without moderation.

+1 to this.

Like this person is saying it’s basically a uncontrolled “Arms Race” of Bunker builds vs High Burst Damage builds and vice versa. And the more and more ANet continues to buff Damage because players are building more bunker because they can’t survive for more then 2 secs without getting dazed and killed. Then in kind ANet buffs the High Burst Damage spec builds in response to the high sustaining bunker builds. If Anet continues the cycle Ad Infinitum we will arrive at the point where all pvp interactions are put on stand still.

Demolisher amulet warriors can wreck thievs pretty easy now (if theif sticks around that is)

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Thieves are a non factor. Look at pro league if you disagree.

The problem is and always will be classes that are tanky as kitten but can push out stupid amounts of damage.

Remember Hambow, cele ele, cele engi, etc. That’s the REAL problem and has been for a LONG time.

To blame thieves for this mess is a cop out when the real blame lies with anet

I look at pro league and I dont see any assassin type build, which thief counters. Also, the most yolo builds, which were invo rev and wanderer warr, swapped to retribution and rabid (extra toughness) when playing against thieves.

Nope the reason people don’t run glass on other classes is not b/c of thief, but rather b/c of more effective builds for there class. You could delete thief from the game right now and the builds for the other classes would remain the same.

I wouldn’t switch off my condi shatter mesmer that’s for kitten sure.

Azukas.1426:

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Thieves are a non factor. Look at pro league if you disagree.

The problem is and always will be classes that are tanky as kitten but can push out stupid amounts of damage.

Remember Hambow, cele ele, cele engi, etc. That’s the REAL problem and has been for a LONG time.

To blame thieves for this mess is a cop out when the real blame lies with anet

I look at pro league and I dont see any assassin type build, which thief counters. Also, the most yolo builds, which were invo rev and wanderer warr, swapped to retribution and rabid (extra toughness) when playing against thieves.

Nope the reason people don’t run glass on other classes is not b/c of thief, but rather b/c of more effective builds for there class. You could delete thief from the game right now and the builds for the other classes would remain the same.

I wouldn’t switch off my condi shatter mesmer that’s for kitten sure.

Wow! you’re right! I was blind the whole time, but thanks to your experience and huge amount of irrefutable evidences now I can see the truth.

I’ve said that its not only thief fault, but burst comps with thief will just stealth-delete most DPS builds that arent broken or have passive bs, which leads to ppl running more safe builds. If this type of bursts dont exist, all what we have left is sustainers/bruisers (actual meta), which doesnt have high amounts of dmg and allows for more squishy build, e.g. I can easily play viper necro against meta comps cause I will not die before a support heals me but as soon as the enemy team has a thief Im done.

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Thieves are a non factor. Look at pro league if you disagree.

The problem is and always will be classes that are tanky as kitten but can push out stupid amounts of damage.

Remember Hambow, cele ele, cele engi, etc. That’s the REAL problem and has been for a LONG time.

To blame thieves for this mess is a cop out when the real blame lies with anet

I look at pro league and I dont see any assassin type build, which thief counters. Also, the most yolo builds, which were invo rev and wanderer warr, swapped to retribution and rabid (extra toughness) when playing against thieves.

Nope the reason people don’t run glass on other classes is not b/c of thief, but rather b/c of more effective builds for there class. You could delete thief from the game right now and the builds for the other classes would remain the same.

I wouldn’t switch off my condi shatter mesmer that’s for kitten sure.

Wow! you’re right! I was blind the whole time, but thanks to your experience and huge amount of irrefutable evidences now I can see the truth.

I’ve said that its not only thief fault, but burst comps with thief will just stealth-delete most DPS builds that arent broken or have passive bs, which leads to ppl running more safe builds. If this type of bursts dont exist, all what we have left is sustainers/bruisers (actual meta), which doesnt have high amounts of dmg and allows for more squishy build, e.g. I can easily play viper necro against meta comps cause I will not die before a support heals me but as soon as the enemy team has a thief Im done.

You have an I’ll founded hatred of thieves. I main Mesmer and they hard countered us at one point….I don’t hate them though.

Since the release of the June 23rd patch of 2015 you have had nothing to fear from thieves…..over a year ago. Get over it and maybe roll one if you’re still scared

Azukas.1426:

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Thieves are a non factor. Look at pro league if you disagree.

The problem is and always will be classes that are tanky as kitten but can push out stupid amounts of damage.

Remember Hambow, cele ele, cele engi, etc. That’s the REAL problem and has been for a LONG time.

To blame thieves for this mess is a cop out when the real blame lies with anet

I look at pro league and I dont see any assassin type build, which thief counters. Also, the most yolo builds, which were invo rev and wanderer warr, swapped to retribution and rabid (extra toughness) when playing against thieves.

Nope the reason people don’t run glass on other classes is not b/c of thief, but rather b/c of more effective builds for there class. You could delete thief from the game right now and the builds for the other classes would remain the same.

I wouldn’t switch off my condi shatter mesmer that’s for kitten sure.

Wow! you’re right! I was blind the whole time, but thanks to your experience and huge amount of irrefutable evidences now I can see the truth.

I’ve said that its not only thief fault, but burst comps with thief will just stealth-delete most DPS builds that arent broken or have passive bs, which leads to ppl running more safe builds. If this type of bursts dont exist, all what we have left is sustainers/bruisers (actual meta), which doesnt have high amounts of dmg and allows for more squishy build, e.g. I can easily play viper necro against meta comps cause I will not die before a support heals me but as soon as the enemy team has a thief Im done.

You have an I’ll founded hatred of thieves. I main Mesmer and they hard countered us at one point….I don’t hate them though.

Since the release of the June 23rd patch of 2015 you have had nothing to fear from thieves…..over a year ago. Get over it and maybe roll one if you’re still scared

Thief is my alter main, but I guess you’re right here too.

Such arguments, much wow.

The #1 reason why i stack toughness and vitality – thieves.
If they get removed from game, i would never build any defense.

Regon Phoenix.8215:

The #1 reason why i stack toughness and vitality – thieves.
If they get removed from game, i would never build any defense.

Revenants and scrappers say hi. kitten, scrappers can sometimes out damage thieves even without ferocity because of might and ridiculous hammer numbers.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Regon Phoenix.8215:

The #1 reason why i stack toughness and vitality – thieves.
If they get removed from game, i would never build any defense.

Revenants and scrappers say hi. kitten, scrappers can sometimes out damage thieves even without ferocity because of might and ridiculous hammer numbers.

But you can kite scrappers. Problem with thieves is not their dmg output, but their burst and chasing capability.

Krysard.1364:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Regon Phoenix.8215:

The #1 reason why i stack toughness and vitality – thieves.
If they get removed from game, i would never build any defense.

Revenants and scrappers say hi. kitten, scrappers can sometimes out damage thieves even without ferocity because of might and ridiculous hammer numbers.

But you can kite scrappers. Problem with thieves is not their dmg output, but their burst and chasing capability.

That’s kind of the point. They’re sneaky, slippery, fast, and deadly, but are very squishy and a single mistake can end them. It’s balanced out.

I find it funny/interesting that so many people are calling out thieves as a culprit.

alchemyst.2165:

Krysard.1364:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Regon Phoenix.8215:

The #1 reason why i stack toughness and vitality – thieves.
If they get removed from game, i would never build any defense.

Revenants and scrappers say hi. kitten, scrappers can sometimes out damage thieves even without ferocity because of might and ridiculous hammer numbers.

But you can kite scrappers. Problem with thieves is not their dmg output, but their burst and chasing capability.

That’s kind of the point. They’re sneaky, slippery, fast, and deadly, but are very squishy and a single mistake can end them. It’s balanced out.

I find it funny/interesting that so many people are calling out thieves as a culprit.

I’m not against thief design. Im just stating that this design is really restrictive for squishy builds viability

Krysard.1364:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Regon Phoenix.8215:

The #1 reason why i stack toughness and vitality – thieves.
If they get removed from game, i would never build any defense.

Revenants and scrappers say hi. kitten, scrappers can sometimes out damage thieves even without ferocity because of might and ridiculous hammer numbers.

But you can kite scrappers. Problem with thieves is not their dmg output, but their burst and chasing capability.

So thieves have appropriate damage output but their burst is too high? Which burst, the 5k backstabs, the 1.8k mugs? Those numbers are nothing for how expensive backstab is because of stealth requirement and the CD on steal.

The chasing capability is all thieves have, and revenant comes close even after PT nerf. They don’t have the offensive support of revenants or the survivability and rez spam of scrappers.

The reason why i play bunker build is because of the amount of skill spamming. I’m a big fan of zerker pvp build (shatter mesmer, staff ele, medi guard). I stop playing these zerker builds because zerker build can’t sustain, can’t deal with all skill spamming. Even a bunker can kill a zerker because they will out sustain zerker

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Krysard.1364:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Regon Phoenix.8215:

The #1 reason why i stack toughness and vitality – thieves.
If they get removed from game, i would never build any defense.

Revenants and scrappers say hi. kitten, scrappers can sometimes out damage thieves even without ferocity because of might and ridiculous hammer numbers.

But you can kite scrappers. Problem with thieves is not their dmg output, but their burst and chasing capability.

So thieves have appropriate damage output but their burst is too high? Which burst, the 5k backstabs, the 1.8k mugs? Those numbers are nothing for how expensive backstab is because of stealth requirement and the CD on steal.

The chasing capability is all thieves have, and revenant comes close even after PT nerf. They don’t have the offensive support of revenants or the survivability and rez spam of scrappers.

1. I’ve never said thief burst is to high
2. You hit 5k backstabs against bunkers/sustainers
3.Revs dont have the CC/chasing ability of thief, not even close
4.Thief allows for stealth bursts from both he and his team. You can delete revs, dps druids, eles, dps necros and pretty much anything with low sustain and without passive immune procs.

I’ve never said that I’m against thieves, nor that they are the only reason for bunkers to exist. Thats foolish. But sustainers are stacked each meta in order to avoid being randomly bursted(stealth) and chased to death(shadowsteps)

Who the HELL said that?

Bunkers/supports exist because of condition spam, at least these days.

Krysard.1364:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Krysard.1364:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Regon Phoenix.8215:

The #1 reason why i stack toughness and vitality – thieves.
If they get removed from game, i would never build any defense.

Revenants and scrappers say hi. kitten, scrappers can sometimes out damage thieves even without ferocity because of might and ridiculous hammer numbers.

But you can kite scrappers. Problem with thieves is not their dmg output, but their burst and chasing capability.

So thieves have appropriate damage output but their burst is too high? Which burst, the 5k backstabs, the 1.8k mugs? Those numbers are nothing for how expensive backstab is because of stealth requirement and the CD on steal.

The chasing capability is all thieves have, and revenant comes close even after PT nerf. They don’t have the offensive support of revenants or the survivability and rez spam of scrappers.

1. I’ve never said thief burst is to high
2. You hit 5k backstabs against bunkers/sustainers
3.Revs dont have the CC/chasing ability of thief, not even close
4.Thief allows for stealth bursts from both he and his team. You can delete revs, dps druids, eles, dps necros and pretty much anything with low sustain and without passive immune procs.

I’ve never said that I’m against thieves, nor that they are the only reason for bunkers to exist. Thats foolish. But sustainers are stacked each meta in order to avoid being randomly bursted(stealth) and chased to death(shadowsteps)

1. You said it’s a problem
2. I have never hit more than 6k in PvP with marauders and no might. Even on other thieves.
3. 1200 range leap every 5 to 7 seconds is pretty strong chasing. Thief CC is reduced to mug 20s CD, b venom kitten CD 1s stun, and risky head shot spam that depletes initiative quickly. And I guess panic strike, which druids have a 10x better version of. Revs have 2 knock backs that also cleave, 45 CD and 20 CD, as well as am AoE long stun.
4. Scrappers bring the same plus sustain.

Sustainers are stacked in each meta because they are more efficient and less risky than pure DPS for most classes. Thief is an outlier in that there is no sustain build that can tank a point and still fight back. And that is why it appears that thief contributes to locking out other DPS specs but we still had almost no DPS specs when thief was a non issue.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Krysard.1364:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Krysard.1364:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Regon Phoenix.8215:

The #1 reason why i stack toughness and vitality – thieves.
If they get removed from game, i would never build any defense.

Revenants and scrappers say hi. kitten, scrappers can sometimes out damage thieves even without ferocity because of might and ridiculous hammer numbers.

But you can kite scrappers. Problem with thieves is not their dmg output, but their burst and chasing capability.

So thieves have appropriate damage output but their burst is too high? Which burst, the 5k backstabs, the 1.8k mugs? Those numbers are nothing for how expensive backstab is because of stealth requirement and the CD on steal.

The chasing capability is all thieves have, and revenant comes close even after PT nerf. They don’t have the offensive support of revenants or the survivability and rez spam of scrappers.

1. I’ve never said thief burst is to high
2. You hit 5k backstabs against bunkers/sustainers
3.Revs dont have the CC/chasing ability of thief, not even close
4.Thief allows for stealth bursts from both he and his team. You can delete revs, dps druids, eles, dps necros and pretty much anything with low sustain and without passive immune procs.

I’ve never said that I’m against thieves, nor that they are the only reason for bunkers to exist. Thats foolish. But sustainers are stacked each meta in order to avoid being randomly bursted(stealth) and chased to death(shadowsteps)

1. You said it’s a problem
2. I have never hit more than 6k in PvP with marauders and no might. Even on other thieves.
3. 1200 range leap every 5 to 7 seconds is pretty strong chasing. Thief CC is reduced to mug 20s CD, b venom kitten CD 1s stun, and risky head shot spam that depletes initiative quickly. And I guess panic strike, which druids have a 10x better version of. Revs have 2 knock backs that also cleave, 45 CD and 20 CD, as well as am AoE long stun.
4. Scrappers bring the same plus sustain.

Sustainers are stacked in each meta because they are more efficient and less risky than pure DPS for most classes. Thief is an outlier in that there is no sustain build that can tank a point and still fight back. And that is why it appears that thief contributes to locking out other DPS specs but we still had almost no DPS specs when thief was a non issue.

1.When I said its a problem, I think its quite clear I mean for squishy builds, which are the ones I’ve said are countered by thieves. I’ve never said their burst was broken. Next time I will spell it out more clearly in order to avoid being misunderstood for gw forum heroes tho.
2.Im not sure you should be able to hit a lot more of 6k without dmg modifiers.
3.Trying to say that revs have more cc/chasing capability is dumb
4.Trying to say that engineers have more stealthed solo/team burst is dumb.

I disagree. High dps builds are viable as long as you dont get deleted by a burst, because your supp will keep you alive. But Im quite sure trying to convince you is a pipe dream, as proly it is to convince me otherwise. But in my mind trying to say that a high burst/chasing build doesnt restrict squishy builds sounds dumb to me.

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Thieves are a non factor. Look at pro league if you disagree.

The problem is and always will be classes that are tanky as kitten but can push out stupid amounts of damage.

Remember Hambow, cele ele, cele engi, etc. That’s the REAL problem and has been for a LONG time.

To blame thieves for this mess is a cop out when the real blame lies with anet

I look at pro league and I dont see any assassin type build, which thief counters. Also, the most yolo builds, which were invo rev and wanderer warr, swapped to retribution and rabid (extra toughness) when playing against thieves.

Nope the reason people don’t run glass on other classes is not b/c of thief, but rather b/c of more effective builds for there class. You could delete thief from the game right now and the builds for the other classes would remain the same.

I wouldn’t switch off my condi shatter mesmer that’s for kitten sure.

Wow! you’re right! I was blind the whole time, but thanks to your experience and huge amount of irrefutable evidences now I can see the truth.

I’ve said that its not only thief fault, but burst comps with thief will just stealth-delete most DPS builds that arent broken or have passive bs, which leads to ppl running more safe builds. If this type of bursts dont exist, all what we have left is sustainers/bruisers (actual meta), which doesnt have high amounts of dmg and allows for more squishy build, e.g. I can easily play viper necro against meta comps cause I will not die before a support heals me but as soon as the enemy team has a thief Im done.

You have an I’ll founded hatred of thieves. I main Mesmer and they hard countered us at one point….I don’t hate them though.

Since the release of the June 23rd patch of 2015 you have had nothing to fear from thieves…..over a year ago. Get over it and maybe roll one if you’re still scared

Thief is my alter main, but I guess you’re right here too.

Such arguments, much wow.

Sure lol. I smell necro player

Azukas.1426:

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Thieves are a non factor. Look at pro league if you disagree.

The problem is and always will be classes that are tanky as kitten but can push out stupid amounts of damage.

Remember Hambow, cele ele, cele engi, etc. That’s the REAL problem and has been for a LONG time.

To blame thieves for this mess is a cop out when the real blame lies with anet

I look at pro league and I dont see any assassin type build, which thief counters. Also, the most yolo builds, which were invo rev and wanderer warr, swapped to retribution and rabid (extra toughness) when playing against thieves.

Nope the reason people don’t run glass on other classes is not b/c of thief, but rather b/c of more effective builds for there class. You could delete thief from the game right now and the builds for the other classes would remain the same.

I wouldn’t switch off my condi shatter mesmer that’s for kitten sure.

Wow! you’re right! I was blind the whole time, but thanks to your experience and huge amount of irrefutable evidences now I can see the truth.

I’ve said that its not only thief fault, but burst comps with thief will just stealth-delete most DPS builds that arent broken or have passive bs, which leads to ppl running more safe builds. If this type of bursts dont exist, all what we have left is sustainers/bruisers (actual meta), which doesnt have high amounts of dmg and allows for more squishy build, e.g. I can easily play viper necro against meta comps cause I will not die before a support heals me but as soon as the enemy team has a thief Im done.

You have an I’ll founded hatred of thieves. I main Mesmer and they hard countered us at one point….I don’t hate them though.

Since the release of the June 23rd patch of 2015 you have had nothing to fear from thieves…..over a year ago. Get over it and maybe roll one if you’re still scared

Thief is my alter main, but I guess you’re right here too.

Such arguments, much wow.

Sure lol. I smell necro player

I AM a necro main, and I’ve a lot of ele/engi games played from ol’ fresh air and SD, actually more than thief games played. Dunno whats your point here. @Beep has his point of view and tries to defend it. What are you doing?

Im just glad ppl dont blame capitalism anymore for whatever goin wrong.

Teefs it is then.

Isn’t the global powercreep from last year (spec update+ Espec release) responsible for bunker?

Ranael.6423:

Isn’t the global powercreep from last year (spec update+ Espec release) responsible for bunker?

No only thieves!

Ranael.6423:

Isn’t the global powercreep from last year (spec update+ Espec release) responsible for bunker?

Both offensive and deffensive options have been powercreeped, so everything remains more or less like always.