Guild Wars 2

Ok, troll – thanks for clarifying.

I love these threads. I know exactly who to block so I never have the misfortune of bumping in to them in-game.

I was never here. Continue. Grabs popcorn

evilapprentice.6379:

In your above list of glass cannon builds, thieves are by far the squishiest, because they can’t, in any way via their traits, utilities, or weapons, gain protection or stability, have 0 Blocks, and no immunity skills. Every single one of the classes you mentioned have access to at minimum one of those abilities (except maybe necro’s, I don’t know them super well off the top of my head, but they do get a second health bar), even in a glass setup, if they so choose.

Who cares about Protection/Stability/Block/Immunity? Those are only capabilities hardly available to any profession and all on a very short duration.
Thieves have easy, easy accesso to Stealth, which is most likely an invulnerability when you want to; no, don’t say you can still be hit while Stealthed because it is a bunch of BS. If you don’t want to get hit while in Stealth you won’t. You just need to have enough brain to get out of range as soon as you Stealth, which is something everyone is capable to do.

evilapprentice.6379:

This is the sentence that tells me you never played a thief. Thieves are mostly glass because They, more than any other class in this game, gain the least by sacrificing Damage for Defensive stats. Even the developers of the game have noticed, and mentioned that they’re looking into boosting thief skills base damage so they can spec more defensively and still remain useful in a fight.

Go roll a 10/30/30/0/0 thief with a soldiers ammy – The stats will look nice on paper. 2850ish total armor, 18kish health, 25-35% crit (depending on your runes and sigils of course), 30-35% crit damage, decently high total power…it’ll look like a solid hybrid spec. Then you’ll go play it, and be sorely disappointed. You’ll lose most fights because your opponents still have access to powerful defensive tools, and all you’re rolling with is high armor. Without the damage to pressure them into playing to survive, you’ve given up all control of the fight, and thieves do not do attrition well.

I never played a thief? Heck, I’d like to know who spent over 200 hours on my thief then :O

What you are trying to say is that Thieves gain less armor at 1600 toughness compared to a Ranger? Wow, this sounds completely strange to me.

You also forgot to mention that developers wanted to raise the base damage, but they also wanted to reduce the overall thief’s burst capability. That means less damage stacking.
Anyway, Soldier Amulet’s damage suck on every profession, not only Thief.

sorrow.2364:

Who cares about Protection/Stability/Block/Immunity?

Those are only capabilities hardly available to any profession and all on a very short duration.

Painfully obvious troll is painfully obvious.

I would say the current S/d +D/P build is too strong at the moment. Dagger plus the pistol gives you easy access to stealth all the time, Sword and dagger gives you a lot of evasion coupled with high damage.

This is a problem because initiative exist. Most classes are punished by skillful counter-play cause at least if you avoid key skills, they are on cool down. But that isn’t the case with thieves because they don’t have cool downs on their weapon skills, and the cost of said skills isn’t prohibitively high. It doesn’t matter how good someone is at dodging if you just get to throw more attacks anyway.

I would like for more skillful play both with and against thieves that what’s currently in game.

evilapprentice.6379:

sorrow.2364:

Who cares about Protection/Stability/Block/Immunity?

Those are only capabilities hardly available to any profession and all on a very short duration.

Painfully obvious troll is painfully obvious.

Sorrow I have never face palmed harder in my entire life.

Anyways if you think thieves are op in tpvp, you are simply bad or just play hot joins.

Thieves excel at killing baddies.

Baddies excel at crying on forums.(it all makes sense now huh?)

From a tpvp necro.

PS don’t care about wvwv this is the PvP forum.

I was about to write up this big response to several of you in this thread, but then I realized that I probably shouldn’t take the troll bait.

There are a lot of misinformed people here.

If you think Thief is OP, I challenge any of you to take the class into a tourney match against actual competent players. Despite popular belief here, you actually have to be good to be worth anything.

And please don’t talk WvW. 95% of the players there are terrible.

Numot.3965:

I would say the current S/d +D/P build is too strong at the moment. Dagger plus the pistol gives you easy access to stealth all the time, Sword and dagger gives you a lot of evasion coupled with high damage.

This is a problem because initiative exist. Most classes are punished by skillful counter-play cause at least if you avoid key skills, they are on cool down. But that isn’t the case with thieves because they don’t have cool downs on their weapon skills, and the cost of said skills isn’t prohibitively high. It doesn’t matter how good someone is at dodging if you just get to throw more attacks anyway.

I would like for more skillful play both with and against thieves that what’s currently in game.

This has been discussed to death – players only like to focus on the positive part of initiative.

Remember, every non thief class gets access to 2 distinct weaponsets (except Ele and Engi, who gain access to even more), each with their own unique cooldowns. Initiative is a shared resource between both a thieves weaponsets. If you go nuts with weapon 1, you can switch to weapon 2 and have fresh CD’s. If a thief goes nuts with weapon 1…weapon 2 is out of juice too.

An additional restriction most don’t recognize is spammable attacks = weaker effects on said attacks. Thieves don’t get KD/KB/Blowback on their weapon skills, nor any buffs on hit. Any stun/immob/daze is extremely short duration. This is because the attack can be spammed – it’s perfectly fair, but something most overlook when hating on the thief class. There are benefits AND costs associated with how initiative works – you can’t kitten about the benefits and ignore the costs when crying for it to be nerfed.

Yeah, as if playing a format that forces you to sit on points or lose isn’t artificially affecting the worth of some classes (bunkers would be useless in most formats that are not point holding, so would scepter eles and BM rangers for that matter — trap rangers are useless in every format that isn’t spvp because people are not forced to eat traps to hold a point).

And LOL at 95% of players being bad in wvw from a tpvp guy. As if tpvp didn’t have its share of bad players. There are bad players in every format. Again, dear Nettle can go challenge any of Redguard’s members to duels, or any top end guild from Seafarer’s Rest for that matter.

WvW is a zergy format, but it has its dedicated roamers.

I don’t understand what dueling would prove. Who built the better 1v1 build? Grats that you have WvW friends that are good. Never did I say everyone in WvW was bad, just that the majority are. I’d say the same about hot joiners in spvp.

Perhaps the better way to have stated it would have been… don’t talk about WvW here, because the format is too different. P/D may work in WvW, but is less effective in tPvP. They have to stealth too often to hold anything and they do all their damage from one easily removed condition, in a system where everyone typically has some form of condi removal. That and there aren’t chickens standing around for easy CnDs

Thieves are extremely UNFUN to play against. I don’t understand why people are trying to debate whether they are balanced or not.

They are just bad and unfun from a game design perspective. Invisibility and teleport spam are just so aggravating to face in battle. I won’t elaborate in what to change, because the class is designed around those kitten skills and it’s impossible to fix them without ruining it.

I’ll just say that an unkillable invisible enemy that can leave anytime or kill you in 3 seconds if you fail to spam tab target and face him, is a game ruining experience. At least for me.
Probably it’s a blast if you like playing thief, just not my cup of tea.

orfeoulis.4325:

Thieves are extremely UNFUN to play against. I don’t understand why people are trying to debate whether they are balanced or not.

They are just bad and unfun from a game design perspective. Invisibility and teleport spam are just so aggravating to face in battle. I won’t elaborate in what to change, because the class is designed around those kitten skills and it’s impossible to fix them without ruining it.

I’ll just say that an unkillable invisible enemy that can leave anytime or kill you in 3 seconds if you fail to spam tab target and face him, is a game ruining experience. At least for me.
Probably it’s a blast if you like playing thief, just not my cup of tea.

I find bunker guardians unfun to play against – so many blocks and immunes, knockbacks, full heals, boons galore…perhaps we should remove them from the game.
Same thing with every flavor of Mesmer – why won’t they just stand there and let me beat on them? Also removed from the game.
And don’t get me started on BM Rangers, HGH Engi’s, and Ele’s of any flavor – who do they think they are, fighting back? Removed!

In fact, let’s replace every other player with targeting dummies that cry when I kill them – that would be fun.

The best way to fix the feeling of unfun when playing against a class is to play and learn the class yourself. The fact that you call a thief unkillable makes me believe you don’t understand the class very well. If they get caught out of position they are one of the most vulnerable classes in the game.

evilapprentice.6379:

sorrow.2364:

Who cares about Protection/Stability/Block/Immunity?

Those are only capabilities hardly available to any profession and all on a very short duration.

Painfully obvious troll is painfully obvious.

They are all 5 seconds usually if not less… Thieve can maintain long duration of stealth through d/P and utilities.

evilapprentice.6379:

orfeoulis.4325:

Thieves are extremely UNFUN to play against. I don’t understand why people are trying to debate whether they are balanced or not.

They are just bad and unfun from a game design perspective. Invisibility and teleport spam are just so aggravating to face in battle. I won’t elaborate in what to change, because the class is designed around those kitten skills and it’s impossible to fix them without ruining it.

I’ll just say that an unkillable invisible enemy that can leave anytime or kill you in 3 seconds if you fail to spam tab target and face him, is a game ruining experience. At least for me.
Probably it’s a blast if you like playing thief, just not my cup of tea.

I find bunker guardians unfun to play against – so many blocks and immunes, knockbacks, full heals, boons galore…perhaps we should remove them from the game.
Same thing with every flavor of Mesmer – why won’t they just stand there and let me beat on them? Also removed from the game.
And don’t get me started on BM Rangers, HGH Engi’s, and Ele’s of any flavor – who do they think they are, fighting back? Removed!

In fact, let’s replace every other player with targeting dummies that cry when I kill them – that would be fun.

All bunker builds are annoying, and that is their role. To hold the point as much as possible until help arrives. They are there, you can see them: having perma regen, protection, blocking in your face and knocking you back. Is this the same as burster that you can’t target because he blinks and spams invisibility? Maybe it is and I’ve lost perspective.

Also, I never said to remove any class from the game. I was only making an game-design oriented observation. Thieves are invisible glass cannons and it’s OK, that’s how they were designed.
No need to act kitten.

orfeoulis.4325:

I’ll just say that an unkillable invisible enemy that can leave anytime or kill you in 3 seconds if you fail to spam tab target and face him, is a game ruining experience.

If you’re going to engage in hyperbole, please don’t be surprised when others do so as well.
If you want to have a discussion, I’m all ears. If all you want to do is throw out exaggerated blanket statements with little basis in reality, well, we’ve got enough of that here. It’s getting rather old.

evilapprentice.6379:

orfeoulis.4325:

I’ll just say that an unkillable invisible enemy that can leave anytime or kill you in 3 seconds if you fail to spam tab target and face him, is a game ruining experience.

If you’re going to engage in hyperbole, please don’t be surprised when others do so as well.
If you want to have a discussion, I’m all ears. If all you want to do is throw out exaggerated blanket statements with little basis in reality, well, we’ve got enough of that here. It’s getting rather old.

The extreme examples intentional, precisely because I want to avoid technicalities. Simply because it doesn’t matter. The class IS balanced, it has weaknesses and strengths. The problem is that both of those are at the extreme.

There are scenarios when facing a thief can be, as I said before, a game ruining experience if you are on the receiving end, because of the above reason.

Not because the class is “BRONEN OMGG FIX NREF ARENENET”, but because a glass cannon with invisibility and teleporting options is a poor design concept.

Anyway, I’m out. Have fun and see you in the field.

I am not going to complain about too much evade and infinite stealth, but make it so it doesn’t make the thief immune to shocking aura, it’s such kitten BS… (same goes for all passive trigger effects on stun that the thieves avoid via the smoke combos re-stealth after attack)

Nettle.9025:

I don’t understand what dueling would prove. Who built the better 1v1 build? Grats that you have WvW friends that are good. Never did I say everyone in WvW was bad, just that the majority are. I’d say the same about hot joiners in spvp.

Perhaps the better way to have stated it would have been… don’t talk about WvW here, because the format is too different. P/D may work in WvW, but is less effective in tPvP. They have to stealth too often to hold anything and they do all their damage from one easily removed condition, in a system where everyone typically has some form of condi removal. That and there aren’t chickens standing around for easy CnDs

1v1 matters. D/P is a stupidly effective duel build that is also the standard for tpvp teams with a thief. S/D is now making its rounds as well. A good 1v1 build like BM ranger forces a team to divert resources. So does the thief, except the time it takes for a BM bunker to kill is nowhere near close the time it takes a thief to dispatch a lone player who doesn’t happen to be stacking toughness.

There are certain builds that are prevented from existing because GC thieves exist. A power necro is not hardcountered much by anything besides perhaps an engineer, and even then the engineer takes some time to kill. A power necro on the other hand might as well die under 5 seconds alone against a thief.

So many classes are forced to spec bunker builds because when a team has a thief or mesmer around, they just stand no chance at staying alive by themselves and need to be babysat by their teams.

Besides another mesmer a D/P thief has no match up to fear against any other GC build.

Whether it works or not in tpvp is also besides the point because I assure you more people play WvW than do upper level tpvp players, and so they have to suffer the consequences of thief design.

See how fun it is to roam as a necro or warrior or non-bunker ranger around in WvW with so many thieves hanging around alongside the odd mesmer and ele. There IS a reason the class is so popular among roamers in WvW. Not only is it one of if not the best 1v1 class however you want to build it, but something like D/P allows you to kill players much faster than other duelist builds based on bunkering and thus reduces the risk of interference from reinforcements.

At this point I’d rather they nerf the hell out of stealth and backstab, let thieves keep their mobility, and give them better sustain by more access to protection/healing on skills. I just don’t agree with a class that can burst so often and kills that fast with the ability to reset the fight many times and completely circumvent other classes’ much longer cd defenses.

That trait for condition clear upon stealthing instead of every 3 seconds after entering stealth is broken, as is the cost of Black Powder given initiative regen builds.

evilapprentice.6379:

Painfully obvious troll is painfully obvious.

So, dear sir, I’d like to know which profession have access to those features I’ve listed as easy as Thieves can access to Stealth.
Oh, wait. You said I’m a troll: that’s how people avoid uncomfortable arguments these days. Don’t worry then.

Login.5102:

Sorrow I have never face palmed harder in my entire life.

Anyways if you think thieves are op in tpvp, you are simply bad or just play hot joins.

Thieves excel at killing baddies.

Baddies excel at crying on forums.(it all makes sense now huh?)

From a tpvp necro.

PS don’t care about wvwv this is the PvP forum.

I like those random forum “pro” whose only thing they can say is “L2P”, “You are a baddie”, “I play tPvP man! Lemme say this to everyone, this makes me look good!”, “You cry on forum, baddie!” to answer any well composed and complex reasoning.
You contribute to the topic is essential. Keep going.

evilapprentice.6379:

Numot.3965:

I would say the current S/d +D/P build is too strong at the moment. Dagger plus the pistol gives you easy access to stealth all the time, Sword and dagger gives you a lot of evasion coupled with high damage.

This is a problem because initiative exist. Most classes are punished by skillful counter-play cause at least if you avoid key skills, they are on cool down. But that isn’t the case with thieves because they don’t have cool downs on their weapon skills, and the cost of said skills isn’t prohibitively high. It doesn’t matter how good someone is at dodging if you just get to throw more attacks anyway.

I would like for more skillful play both with and against thieves that what’s currently in game.

This has been discussed to death – players only like to focus on the positive part of initiative.

Remember, every non thief class gets access to 2 distinct weaponsets (except Ele and Engi, who gain access to even more), each with their own unique cooldowns. Initiative is a shared resource between both a thieves weaponsets. If you go nuts with weapon 1, you can switch to weapon 2 and have fresh CD’s. If a thief goes nuts with weapon 1…weapon 2 is out of juice too.

An additional restriction most don’t recognize is spammable attacks = weaker effects on said attacks. Thieves don’t get KD/KB/Blowback on their weapon skills, nor any buffs on hit. Any stun/immob/daze is extremely short duration. This is because the attack can be spammed – it’s perfectly fair, but something most overlook when hating on the thief class. There are benefits AND costs associated with how initiative works – you can’t kitten about the benefits and ignore the costs when crying for it to be nerfed.

You make it sound like traits such as quick pockets don’t exist, or other ways to fuel initiative. In beta it was far harder to manage because of how slow initiative regen was, its not that hard to make sure you always have enough to get the job done these days, especially with a proper build.

Initiative is a difficult mechanic to balance around and thieves have had a fair share of skills get reworked because of it, even when those skills wouldn’t have been an issue if they were cool down skills. While thieves don’t have extensive access to various control with their attacks they still have access to both good movement effects, as well as evasion. Thief attacks are not weaker than other professions but different than others in what they offer.

Zenith.7301:

Nettle.9025:

I don’t understand what dueling would prove. Who built the better 1v1 build? Grats that you have WvW friends that are good. Never did I say everyone in WvW was bad, just that the majority are. I’d say the same about hot joiners in spvp.

Perhaps the better way to have stated it would have been… don’t talk about WvW here, because the format is too different. P/D may work in WvW, but is less effective in tPvP. They have to stealth too often to hold anything and they do all their damage from one easily removed condition, in a system where everyone typically has some form of condi removal. That and there aren’t chickens standing around for easy CnDs

1v1 matters. D/P is a stupidly effective duel build that is also the standard for tpvp teams with a thief. S/D is now making its rounds as well. A good 1v1 build like BM ranger forces a team to divert resources. So does the thief, except the time it takes for a BM bunker to kill is nowhere near close the time it takes a thief to dispatch a lone player who doesn’t happen to be stacking toughness.

There are certain builds that are prevented from existing because GC thieves exist. A power necro is not hardcountered much by anything besides perhaps an engineer, and even then the engineer takes some time to kill. A power necro on the other hand might as well die under 5 seconds alone against a thief.

So many classes are forced to spec bunker builds because when a team has a thief or mesmer around, they just stand no chance at staying alive by themselves and need to be babysat by their teams.

Besides another mesmer a D/P thief has no match up to fear against any other GC build.

Whether it works or not in tpvp is also besides the point because I assure you more people play WvW than do upper level tpvp players, and so they have to suffer the consequences of thief design.

See how fun it is to roam as a necro or warrior or non-bunker ranger around in WvW with so many thieves hanging around alongside the odd mesmer and ele. There IS a reason the class is so popular among roamers in WvW. Not only is it one of if not the best 1v1 class however you want to build it, but something like D/P allows you to kill players much faster than other duelist builds based on bunkering and thus reduces the risk of interference from reinforcements.

At this point I’d rather they nerf the hell out of stealth and backstab, let thieves keep their mobility, and give them better sustain by more access to protection/healing on skills. I just don’t agree with a class that can burst so often and kills that fast with the ability to reset the fight many times and completely circumvent other classes’ much longer cd defenses.

That trait for condition clear upon stealthing instead of every 3 seconds after entering stealth is broken, as is the cost of Black Powder given initiative regen builds.

Depends on the D/P thief. A 25/30/0/0/15 can’t make any mistakes in a 1v1. You’re in trouble if you get caught. Against an equally competent player, I should clarify. Against another GC it comes down to who gets caught in the CC first without a stun break up.

A 10/30/30/0/0 however is indeed a good duel build, especially with hidden killer and a soldier’s ammy. A little too much sustain for my tastes in tpvp, but totally viable.

I still don’t get why we are talking WvW roaming on the spvp forum. I thought they skill split now. Also, stats can be hugely inflated there. Full ascended gear with consumables? Hello 2300+ power, 60%+ crit chance, 100%+ crit damage. Without boons. That’s not obtainable in spvp. Then you have the people they kill that may not even be 80 yet. Inc cries for nerf.

I can understand how the class is frustrating in that setting, but maybe you should take your crusade against thieves to the WvW forum. I’m certainly not going to complain about a tpvp problem to a wvw crowd.

sorrow.2364:

evilapprentice.6379:

Painfully obvious troll is painfully obvious.

So, dear sir, I’d like to know which profession have access to those features I’ve listed as easy as Thieves can access to Stealth.
Oh, wait. You said I’m a troll: that’s how people avoid uncomfortable arguments these days. Don’t worry then.

Login.5102:

Sorrow I have never face palmed harder in my entire life.

Anyways if you think thieves are op in tpvp, you are simply bad or just play hot joins.

Thieves excel at killing baddies.

Baddies excel at crying on forums.(it all makes sense now huh?)

From a tpvp necro.

PS don’t care about wvwv this is the PvP forum.

I like those random forum “pro” whose only thing they can say is “L2P”, “You are a baddie”, “I play tPvP man! Lemme say this to everyone, this makes me look good!”, “You cry on forum, baddie!” to answer any well composed and complex reasoning.
You contribute to the topic is essential. Keep going.

Because anyone who plays high lvl tpvp knows that the thief is not op.

Answer this question sorrow so we can get another glimpse of your PvP knowledge.

Would you rather have any kind of thief on your team over a bm ranger, bunker guard, shatter mess, ele, or a HGH engi?

Let me guess, your answer is : Who cares about bm ranger/bunker guard/shatter mess/ele/HGH engi? Those classes can’t go stealth!

But then again I’m asking some body who just said who cares about every defensive boon in the game….

And please respond, keep going. Your kittening hilarious.

Nettle.9025:

Depends on the D/P thief. A 25/30/0/0/15 can’t make any mistakes in a 1v1. You’re in trouble if you get caught. Against an equally competent player, I should clarify. Against another GC it comes down to who gets caught in the CC first without a stun break up.

A 10/30/30/0/0 however is indeed a good duel build, especially with hidden killer and a soldier’s ammy. A little too much sustain for my tastes in tpvp, but totally viable.

I still don’t get why we are talking WvW roaming on the spvp forum. I thought they skill split now. Also, stats can be hugely inflated there. Full ascended gear with consumables? Hello 2300+ power, 60%+ crit chance, 100%+ crit damage. Without boons. That’s not obtainable in spvp. Then you have the people they kill that may not even be 80 yet. Inc cries for nerf.

I can understand how the class is frustrating in that setting, but maybe you should take your crusade against thieves to the WvW forum. I’m certainly not going to complain about a tpvp problem to a wvw crowd.

The problem remains as a power necro or ranger in tpvp. A backstab even on a 1800 toughness necro with rabid amulet still takes out about 6-7k of his health, on a 18k HP bar. That’s a huge chunk for a single skill, while you are stealthed. It hits even harder against glass cannon builds with 916 toughness.

The problem is that the thief can halt the offensive momentum of other classes via stealth (at best you guess where the thief might be and risk wasting a long cd aoe that doesn’t do even close to 1/3 of the thief’s HP) while doing ridiculous spike that can be done more often than other classes’ usual 30+ second cooldowns.

A thief can chain BP backstabs fairly often, and most importantly a BP thief completely shuts down melee specs, and power necros or rangers have no burst ranged weapons to retaliate. And then Heartseeker hits fairly hard as soon as the target is below 50% health, which that backstab and an autoattack chain is doing to any glass cannon.

It’s just insufferable to play any GC build that’s not a mesmer or thief when other thieves/mesmers are around.

If you are a ranger, you’ll have to play bunker. If you’re a necro, you’ll have to play a conditionmancer with toughness to even last some time against a thief. It’s too kitten lopsided where you need to stack unholy amounts of toughness and healing power or vitality to live through a thief because you’ve got nowhere near the amount of escape tools or invulnerability to stay on the offensive.

Killthehealersffs.8940:

daydream.2938:

sorrow.2364:

daydream.2938:

Jesus Christ the line up of people complaining about thiefs. Gw2guru should make a why thiefs are not op and heres how to l2p video explaining this .

Hi average Thief player
Are you enjoying your profession?

Never play thief. Main an engy.

Are u really sure ? :P
Beacause i saw u in the NA server playing ur thief and then ur female Ranger , when the trapper Ranger guide showned up 3-4 months ago :P

Had a thief, did play it a little way back, more like 6 months since I log on it. never even logged on a ranger.

Also, all irrelevant. I only play engy now and for months.

This is very funny post
Sure thief could be annoyng , but at least it is fun to fight him.
I don’t think it OP or smth like that, but personaly he hast too much burst dmg with very good escape mechanics

-Necro.

so here we are now:

thief shouldn’t be able to port.
thief shouldn’t be able to cleanse.
thief shouldn’t be able to evade.
thief shouldn’t be able to stealth.
thief shouldn’t be able to deal damage.
thief shouldn’t be able to have so much armor (rofl. yes, somebody complained about this).

i have another suggestion to make thieves balanced:

thief shouldnt be able to use the run animation. only walk. how am i supposed to hit my skillshots on them?! nerf!

buttski.6135:

so here we are now:

thief shouldn’t be able to port.
thief shouldn’t be able to cleanse.
thief shouldn’t be able to evade.
thief shouldn’t be able to stealth.

I think you took it a bit too far there:) Shouldn’t be able to? Do not overreact. The trouble is, they can do some of this TOO OFTEN.
The porting, I was watching a warrior via spectate one day. The only way for him to fight this particular thief was to root the guy and then burst, except he couldn’t root the guy at all. Why? Because the thief had a skill that allowed him to insta teleport. Not only could that particular thief output silly damage face to face, when he played badly and got caught out-he could insta escape.
The cleansing issue, for a class that can evade like crazy, and spam stealth they can also cleanse as well. So a class that has a slow ramp up of damage via dots is going to suffer vs a stealth spammer.
The evades, fair enough. You are agile and quick.
The stealth, and this is where I guess most people’s rage boils over. The sheer amount of it. Played well, a thief has stupid-inane survivability via klingon stealth. I’ve never in over 10 years of mmo gaming seen stealth this strong and viable. Because of the way the game mechanics work. stealth seems to be the most effective form of defence I have experienced. Every other form of defence can be countered effectively, boons can be striped/corrupted. Attacks can be dodged/blocked. Conditions can be cleansed/converted. Any other class you can see, you can see when they prep a skill, you can see their positioning can make an educated guess as to what they will try.
Not so with a thief. Because most of the time he is invisible, not hard to see or obscured…but completely, utterly undetectable and invisible.
The stealth mechanic itself is apart from the rest of the game mechanics. It can’t be affected or countered. To fight invisi troll, you have to GUESS where they are. GUESS.
Put simply, if used right, it’s the best active defence in the entire game.

Fighting a thief underwater is so enjoyable too: avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid avoid.

Most thieves in stealth are really predictable. They are going to stealth and try to flank you in melee.

Find a stealth thief to duel with for like 30 minutes straight to get some practice. Don’t give them your back in the direction they stealthed at, move away from where they stealthed at, and then dodge 2-3 seconds after they entered.

If they are D/P try to CC them after they pop a BP field. If you are successful they just wasted 6i. If they are D/D (is this still even run?) don’t let them close into melee, or just dodge obvious CnD attempts. A thief is extremely vulnerable if you get them out of their rhythm and force lots of wasted initiative.

Login.5102:

Because anyone who plays high lvl tpvp knows that the thief is not op.

Answer this question sorrow so we can get another glimpse of your PvP knowledge.

Would you rather have any kind of thief on your team over a bm ranger, bunker guard, shatter mess, ele, or a HGH engi?

Let me guess, your answer is : Who cares about bm ranger/bunker guard/shatter mess/ele/HGH engi? Those classes can’t go stealth!

But then again I’m asking some body who just said who cares about every defensive boon in the game….

And please respond, keep going. Your kittening hilarious.

Thief is not OP in tPvP for the only reason he can’t cap while in stealth, that’s all. If they were able to, I bet everyone will run Thief and also tPvP would be invaded by thieves.

And, in case you didn’t noticed, the topic isn’t about Thief in tPvP (because, you know, Structured PvP does not mean tPvP only), but it is about Thief devensive mechanics in general.