Guild Wars 2

@flappy: ok you said 8v8. take it easy, there is no class who can win in 8v8 easily because it is a zerg vs zerg.
if you meant 8v8 at the start of the thread there was no “l2p issues”. as i stated in last posts, i meant all i said for tourney, and necros are good holders. OFC in 8v8 holdin a cap means death. btw the suggestions i gave to you are for tourney; if you want to explore the “balanced” side of the game, play tournaments.
you won’t call thieves op anymore. trust me

Wolfe.3097:

Flappy.2837:

So you think condition Necromancers a problem but you say you chose to not run with a healing skill that has more controlled healing and removes conditions, and you have teamates removing conditions and you have a another condition removal… i don’t see how the condition necro can be a problem.

its amazing you can make this an argument yet when people tell others to run stunbreakers or defense skills they reply “i shouldnt have to spec to avoid one class!”

talking about thief of course.

It is amazing how you missed the scenario when i described how i would easily kill a necro as a thief when they used plague signet, and i also said i tried all the common specs and my own specs before i posted. I usually always carry a stunbreaker, and if i do not i won’t complain about not being able to break stun, i have have an option to do so.
The problem is the stuns and immobilizes are so many and so short that a stunbreaker skill is extremely far from an get away free card. The best suggestion ive heard and used is to plague signet the fear if they steal it, but usually it is just teleport in and mash away win.

@Shukran. Yes i agree that in tPvP thieves don’t have the same strength because of bunkers, but don’t you see, that is the problem, wouldn’t it be more amusing gameplay if the thief class wasn’t instagib all but tanks and weak to useless against tanks. Lower damage, give a little longer and controlled fights instead of spam everything you got and hope for the best. It can still be a glass cannon, but a little less cannon and a little less glass.

16k backstab… man have a look at your build…

Even with some toughness and protection, which is easy to get with certain trait lines, heh even mark/staff builds can have it going – you can reduce the stupid damage you are taking by half, add in some vitality and your laughing.

I know you made the thread to complain about how thieves are OP, but really if your going to go a glass cannon build you have to expect to die fast.

If you can only play a glass cannon build, then at least have traits that allow extra damage when downed and spec runes and traits that do damage when you fall over, or try out other classes. (like thief, which can benefit greatly from decent glass cannon builds…)

I’ve played heaps of matches now with an engi, and necro and I’ve honestly never had your issue – (normally in the top 2 at the end)

I’m not saying its a l2p thing or that I’m necessarily good, but at least have builds that play to the strengths of the class.

Ebola.1907:

16k backstab… man have a look at your build…

Even with some toughness and protection, which is easy to get with certain trait lines, heh even mark/staff builds can have it going – you can reduce the stupid damage you are taking by half, add in some vitality and your laughing.

I know you made the thread to complain about how thieves are OP, but really if your going to go a glass cannon build you have to expect to die fast.

If you can only play a glass cannon build, then at least have traits that allow extra damage when downed and spec runes and traits that do damage when you fall over, or try out other classes. (like thief, which can benefit greatly from decent glass cannon builds…)

I’ve played heaps of matches now with an engi, and necro and I’ve honestly never had your issue – (normally in the top 2 at the end)

I’m not saying its a l2p thing or that I’m necessarily good, but at least have builds that play to the strengths of the class.

I said the build i had in the post… do you call that a glass cannon? It is traited for toughness and DS. So whatd build do you recommend then?

i would like to play a less glass less cannon, but don’t know how dev can improve those stats without making thief less usefull than warrior.

oh yeah thief is not rewarded yet, to be able to burst someone he needs to have his utility which gives him no slot for stunbreak or anything defensive and 14k hp is 2 much , am’i right ?

thief outside burst spec are suffering cause they have nothing going on for them , yeah they might be a good killer , that’s how the class is designed though kill or be killed 2 simple and it works

Shukran: thief are designed to be glass canon spec from the get go , we basically have no defense outside of stealth which u take damage still

so nerfing our damage will render the class useless , there wont be any need to take a thief to tourney , people complaining about thief burst they need to l2 dodge and l2p , they’re nothing but noobos

Thieves have 17k hp as glasscannon, and about one button with sword and one button with dagger spam that does the everything required for a extremely fast kill, thats what is annoying people who gets instagibbed. Other classes they trait, weaponswap use utility and elite skills to counter a one button spam. That isn’t very rewarding for me at least, sure i got knockdown, weaponswapping, and stealth, and thieves guild for that extra flavor, but unless i met someone who really, really fought back, i didn’t even need to use them. Stealth stomping was the most used utility skill and it can’t be countered that i know of. And weapon swapping as a thief? Not required at all to get the job done, its mainly used for short bow teleport.

are u really teaching me about thief , when im myself a rank 33 thief , a glass canon spec has 14k or 15 if he got a trait that convert 5% of precision into vitality that i corrected this for u , anymore questions ?

I’m not going to give my exact build, pretty much because I’m having a great deal of success with it, but I think your on the right track…

A little toughness doesn’t mean your not a glass cannon – slight damage reduction doesn’t mean your not easy to kill.

Anyway as a suggestion I would try and work into your build some way of getting protection (spectral shield is good for this), weakness – reduce the incoming damage and if you want more dps, might be worth trying retaliation- can tear apart a lot of multi hit builds.

Oh you could also try to maximise you boon uptime by having 2 x runes of water, 2 x monk and 3x earth for 50% odd bonus to protection and 30% for other boons.

Anyway just a suggestion

Soul Reaping 15 points for Last Gasp – this is extremely strong against a thief or an otherwise stun+burst glass.

Flappy.2837:

Thieves have 17k hp as glasscannon, and about one button with sword and one button with dagger spam that does the everything required for a extremely fast kill, thats what is annoying people who gets instagibbed. Other classes they trait, weaponswap use utility and elite skills to counter a one button spam. That isn’t very rewarding for me at least, sure i got knockdown, weaponswapping, and stealth, and thieves guild for that extra flavor, but unless i met someone who really, really fought back, i didn’t even need to use them. Stealth stomping was the most used utility skill and it can’t be countered that i know of. And weapon swapping as a thief? Not required at all to get the job done, its mainly used for short bow teleport.

Glass Cannon thiefs have 14k HP and 800 Toughness.

Pet pet blows them up before they can attack me lol. I love my Fleabag! (Name of my Lynx :P)

Try this, smash thieves:
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.5.1.7.13.0.5.5.27.0.107.108.109.110.129.8.8.22.306.0.0.0.0.0.331.334.338.346.353.355.0.0.0.10.0.30.30.0

Flappy

I literally put down this game after a month of playing 8v8 and 5v5. I’m done with Necro PvP until they fix it. Having to run only 1 build ever in a game that promotes “build diversity” just so you can somewhat counter 1 thief is kitten

Keep hating the player not the game cuz sadly most of you kitten in these posts are still in “Guild Wars 2 is the best MMO evar!” mode.

Re-roll thief till they nerf them and get mad glory/RP.

Mammoth.1975:

Try this, smash thieves:
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.5.1.7.13.0.5.5.27.0.107.108.109.110.129.8.8.22.306.0.0.0.0.0.331.334.338.346.353.355.0.0.0.10.0.30.30.0

Yes i actually rand this for some time, but didn’t find it useful, the damage it can do is really, REALLY bad. And as usual with well builds they are for cleaning out people who think standing still in 2 pulsing wells is a good idea.
It is not a very viable build, because you have 2 options, using dagger to immobilize them either before or after casting the wells. Immobilize them before casting and they will run out after 1 pulse, immobilizing them after casting the wells will require them to be standing onto of them, which they don’t. Its like counting on a Ranged will not move if getting jumped by a melee.

UptheIronz.6732:

are u really teaching me about thief , when im myself a rank 33 thief , a glass canon spec has 14k or 15 if he got a trait that convert 5% of precision into vitality that i corrected this for u , anymore questions ?

You say thieves have nothing going for them if they don’t have this 200 power and 15% crit damage and 14-15k hp? I had no problem killing people without them being able to retaliate as 21k and i still didn’t need to weapon swap. Sure it required more than spamming one button and autoattack >SOMETIMES<, but maybe that is the problem for you when claiming you have nothing going for you?
And when you say l2p and l2 to dodge just shows who’s the player behind the class defending the burst, it actually should be YOU learning to play and dodge intstead of one button win spamming. And that has been my point all along.

Mammoth.1975:

Try this, smash thieves:
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.5.1.7.13.0.5.5.27.0.107.108.109.110.129.8.8.22.306.0.0.0.0.0.331.334.338.346.353.355.0.0.0.10.0.30.30.0

Wow that’s a pretty terrible build..

Toughness unfortunately doesn’t stop thieves from critting you with backstab for an incredible amount. I have 3k armor and i still get 8-10k crit on backstab as necro. Unfortunately after they have burned your fear and thieves exploiting stealth bug it definitely is a hard fight. Not to mention Thieves have a longer fear on one ability than all of Necromancers abilities combined and we also don’t have any trustworthy stability. It is definitely an uphill battle but you can out play a thief usually. Well of Darkness buys you 5 seconds, but will not blind enough if they pop quickness. If you have life force built up there is almost no chance that the thief can kill you.

Necro is my main, and the biggest weakness for us is that we start with no profession ability and is near impossible to build up in the tournament setting. Just wait for Arenanet to fix our 80+ bugs and a better way of generating life force xD. Until then, look to out play them. Remember 80% of our abilities are aoe with scep/dag, staff, you should be guessing where they will be. 95% of thieves are bad even through exploiting stealth.

To those Stealth bug abusers you can go f yourselves for exploiting and i will be waiting for you in tpvp to beat you down kthx.

@Mammoth
The build is close to what I’m using but you want 10 points in precision and the mastery where you chill when the opponent is blinded. You also want the blind Well vs. Thieves because it doesn’t matter if its Pistol Whip or Heartseeker, the blind Well simply makes it so you can punish them for trying to insta-burst you. That build doesn’t have it so you’re going to die hard if you don’t take it.

If you think you’re going to get burst down specially when they have Basilisk Venom, immediately pop that and un-load EVERY bleed and condition damage you have. Thieves have very little to offer when cleansing condition damage. Pretty much why I recommended Rune of Superior Geomancy (Because of how easy it is to land and how much bleed stacks it gives) with Staff + Scepter and something. Thieves guild vs. Plague? Plague wins simply because you can tank both the thief and the guild. Dagger Storm, you would want Superior Rune of Adventure for that just so you can dodge it.

Necro vs. Thief isn’t really that bad of a match up if you people actually took the time to learn how to make a point holder Necro.

if everyone could play thief in tournaments , at least rank shadow (not champion shadow), to see how “easy” is winning as it, maybe everyone would stop arguing at thieves op.
but it is easier to think thief has 3 set weapons, 5 utility and inifinite initiative and endurance, and ofc thieves can remove every single condition they have instatly everytime they want.

Flappy.2837:

Mammoth.1975:

Try this, smash thieves:
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.5.1.7.13.0.5.5.27.0.107.108.109.110.129.8.8.22.306.0.0.0.0.0.331.334.338.346.353.355.0.0.0.10.0.30.30.0

Yes i actually rand this for some time, but didn’t find it useful, the damage it can do is really, REALLY bad. And as usual with well builds they are for cleaning out people who think standing still in 2 pulsing wells is a good idea.
It is not a very viable build, because you have 2 options, using dagger to immobilize them either before or after casting the wells. Immobilize them before casting and they will run out after 1 pulse, immobilizing them after casting the wells will require them to be standing onto of them, which they don’t. Its like counting on a Ranged will not move if getting jumped by a melee.

Actually, it’s quite good. Dagger damage is very satisfactory, and the golem adds a bit. Charge and immobilise keeps them in wells for the duration, and between marks, wells, charge, life siphon and life transfer, stealth is no great advantage. The only thieves that I haven’t simply steamrolled have been those who pop guild, and only one of those has actually beaten me. The biggest backstab combo I’ve taken was ~50% of my health, and when built that way, they just fold up and die before they can set anything else up. You don’t even need to target them really, they die to aoe, pet, and retal, so I’d say the damage is sufficient.

I did try out knights amulet for a while, but the impact on your survivability is quite large. 550 toughness isn’t very good when you have 15k health, it’s a different story when you have 27k health and 14k healing every 30s. I also played around with well of darkness instead of well of power, but it’s pretty niche. You’d be better off just switching it in for those specific instances where it’s better.

If you like to 1vX, I’d say greater marks is better than dark armor, but otherwise it’s a great 8v8 build. It flat destroys thieves and mesmers, which is typically half the other team. Actually it destroys just about everything except engis and eles, often 2 or 3 at a time.

If you evade his attack he should be out of stealth lol….but for the most part a necro wont be killing ANYTHING by themselves( even with condition build) let alone reset city profession thief.

And usually you want to place your marks first and dodge just around your marks so it activates.

Pretty much what everyone already said.