Guild Wars 2

But again, that is disingenuous.

Yes, if you are forced to run away, you lose. If you die, you lose more. Every other class in the entire game loses more when they lose a fight than the thief does. Every single one.

When I do engage a target I shouldn’t or make a mistake and am in fear of losing, I disengage. From there I get options. Do I heal up and go back in? Do I run away and contribute elsewhere?

When I screw up on my Necro, I get to count to 10 while my entire team is down a player.

You do see the difference, right?

I’ll lay it out. 4v5/7v8 or 5v5/8v8.

QSpec.4298:

But again, that is disingenuous.

Yes, if you are forced to run away, you lose. If you die, you lose more. Every other class in the entire game loses more when they lose a fight than the thief does. Every single one.

When I do engage a target I shouldn’t or make a mistake and am in fear of losing, I disengage. From there I get options. Do I heal up and go back in? Do I run away and contribute elsewhere?

When I screw up on my Necro, I get to count to 10 while my entire team is down a player.

You do see the difference, right?

I’ll lay it out. 4v5/7v8 or 5v5/8v8.

you dont exactly lose more when you die, especially if you respawn closer to some other point and take it. not too mention this doesnt happen 100% of the time, a thief will not always get away. do you heal up? what heal do you run? i use the stealth heal, and i blow it in fight not after. run away and contribute elsewhere is sometimes more beneficical, depends where you are vs where the person rezzing is compared to the point that is under contestation, there are in fact times where rezzing is faster.

and further thieves are not the only ones that can spec in such away that would allow them to run away if things are getting stacked against them, elementals, engineers, mesmers just to name a few can also do this.

stating im being disengenious is bias, im not being disengenious.

Yes, but a thief does not always lsoe the fight either. And sure, in some cases (like defending boss) dying isn’t as big of a loss… but now we can make the argument that the thief can choose to die and go back, same as every class.

And yes, if the thief is too low, it might be some kind of problem, but he can move into position while his life regens. Moreover, he can always contribute damage if it comes down to it.

Moreover, thieves don’t really have to ‘spec’ a certain way to escape. It borderlines come stock on the class (I’ve actually yet to see a thief that has zero stealth, but I am sure they are out there).

the way this game works if he ran away YOU WON,

And that is disingenuous, not bias. Yes, YOU WON, but you didn’t WIN AS HARD AS YOU WOULD HAVE AGAINST ANY OTHER CLASS.

You are actually now put into the position of defending that dying isn’t as good as living which seems crazy to me.

Honestly I have no interest in playing gw2 right at the moment because of how broken the thief is. Its a class or well… its a concept of a class thats OP or UP but not balanced at all in every mmorpg ever created for a reason.

Its the only calls in the game people have to make specific builds to survive against it.

Its the class with the highest burst AND mobility. You can run away from a mesmer or guardian but you cant from a thief.

Its the only class where defensive stats dont really matter because the escape abilites are to good, even a mesmer can be bursted down and killed if focused but you wont catch a thief.

It doesnt work and it screws up PvP in the long run.

It surprised me that the game that broke the “holy trinity” and other rules decided to make the most cliche version of an uber 1v1 assassin machine. I thought GW2 was all about removing necessary evils that people grew to hate in the average MMO. Wasn’t there some way to make thieves feel totally unique and fun without having to make them play by totally different rules from the other classes?

Thief mobility is exaggerated. It is the best because no cooldown, but other classes all have good escape skills. Warriors can use their Bull’s Charge and Sword Leap with swiftness to escape just as easily 90% of the time. Elementalist can use Ride the Lightning and Blink. Mesmers can cloak just like thieves and blink as well. It’s not like you have to stay and fight with the other classes.

The problems with Thief is that they are very role specific. We are essentially roamers who when built to burst are useful to their teams. But we aren’t necessary to team comps like bunker builds. Our combo field choices are poor (shadow refuge is our only good one), poison is just a weak condition compared to the other two, our traps are really poor, and our weapon selection is very sparse considering we’re a class that should have more choices at least equal to the ranger in terms of perspective with other non-magic classes.

And the biggest pet peeve of all is that stealth has no effect on spirit weapons, pets, and clones. It would be nice if it would make them drop target as well in stealth because right now a smart player can use them to basically obviate 50% of the advantage of stealth, which is not knowing where we are.

And again, a great game totally F up by the usual backstabing stealth lamer…

Just bring back the old assassin from GW1 :P

We did not need Stealth, that for cowards
We had a better combat system than the stupid broken initiative
We where unique for our time, not just some cookie cutter mmo rogue

We are Strider to the Thief Naruto, bring us back!!!

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#cMkMMc0Mz9mk9oG0xGzmMaqVc
Mah build makes me only die like 2 times, max, per match. I kill a LOT, and i don’t do 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000k backstab damage. No, i do 5k. Thats it. Thieves can be played without using the backstab build.

@bwookie

Bunker builds are there to specifically counter thieves.

Once thieves get brought down a tiny bit and other classes get buffed a tiny bit, I think you’ll see less mando bunker builds designed to 100% counter the roaming thief.

QSpec.4298:

@bwookie

Bunker builds are there to specifically counter thieves.

Once thieves get brought down a tiny bit and other classes get buffed a tiny bit, I think you’ll see less mando bunker builds designed to 100% counter the roaming thief.

Bunker builds are meant to hold points versus all comers till help comes. With retaliation and protection able to be up near 100% one guardian can hold off a team of 3-4 vs 1 if they are good at what they do. Especially on specific points like clocktower and the side nodes on the first two maps. Thieves really aren’t necessary for the current meta. We can burst down one but after that we’re nothing special. With the down state mechanics our burst doesn’t need to be nerfed. If you aren’t alone and you are on a decent team they can prevent you from being finished and revive. Only baddies who are solo will lose to burst thieves.

Nerfing damage of thieves really does nothing for balance as our only role right now is damage. Our support abilities are lackluster compared to other comps you can run.
All you need is a cc breaker to counter backstab right now and a pbaoe fear, stun, block, blindness, knockdown, launch, teleport or daze which will cause a thief to miss their combo and be forced on a 45 sec cooldown with half their utility skills gone and being squishy. The problems with backstab are just people panic and just sit there and eat damage then come onto the boards and whine.

The problem isn’t just against new players it’s also where terrain advantage works in there favor. Tight quarters and no mobility .. so any puzzle or small room where the thief can “reset” their advantage quickly so stairs next to roofs where theie is multiple escapes and terrain to dodge around. You cannot evade if you 1 have no where to run and 2 have no way to take advantage of a thief who screws up.

I’ve seen1 thief sit inside of a fort in WvWvW and camp everyone that didn’t folow the zerg and single handedly take 3+ players 20 minutes to dislodge. It has nothing to do with skill and more to do with understanding the limitations of your opponents.

Revert nerf of pistolwhip (PW is now useless auto attack is better. Nerf ruined thiefs in pve more then pvp)

PW was never OP. It actually needed to be buffed to same level as 100b

Nerf backstab.

you cannot even use s/p in pve or pvp now

Jestersmiles.4365:

Just bring back the old assassin from GW1 :P

We did not need Stealth, that for cowards
We had a better combat system than the stupid broken initiative
We where unique for our time, not just some cookie cutter mmo rogue

We are Strider to the Thief Naruto, bring us back!!!

Assassins had no place in GVG

Thief is VERY squishy and any time there is focus fire on thief, you are dead almost instantly. There aren’t many builds to choose from either. You really can’t take a defense build because if you go defense your damage goes down way too much. If you go high health you are forced to run conditions that people can simply dispel. The nerf on p/w basically made the bs build the only go to build for pvp. Now, i don’t think people should be able to bs for 14k or higher. But many are going to try to exploit it as long a they can. I personally run a variant of backstab build but i can do, at most, around 5k dmg. BUT, I do have good mobility and I have ways of dispelling as well and initiative building. I gave up some things for survivability but I am still low hp and low defense. I think my build is somewhat unique as i’ve never seen anyone post the same build and it works for me, but I have never felt OP. I actually wish they would kill off the combination that allows a 15k crit or simply nerf the upper level of damage. Then maybe some of these people will quit playing thief (i feel there are too many also at this time) It wasn’t this way during initial launch or open betas.

I am sorry but the Quickness + Pistol Whip and Backstabs for nuclear numbers have got to be looked at.

They are just Iwin buttons vs most builds and some classes have zero chance against them. Going from 3/4 health to no health in 3 sec is not good pvp.

Arenanet you really need to take a close look at thiefs.
1. Extreme burst damage leaves most builds useless.
2. Popping in and out of stealth is rediculous.
3. The downed skills are superior to every other class.

DIVA

bwookie.3807:

Thief mobility is exaggerated. It is the best because no cooldown, but other classes all have good escape skills. Warriors can use their Bull’s Charge and Sword Leap with swiftness to escape just as easily 90% of the time. Elementalist can use Ride the Lightning and Blink. Mesmers can cloak just like thieves and blink as well. It’s not like you have to stay and fight with the other classes.

How many classes have a short cooldown or no cooldown on:
Runspeed and
Blink and
Vanish?

Kolache.3964:

bwookie.3807:

Thief mobility is exaggerated. It is the best because no cooldown, but other classes all have good escape skills. Warriors can use their Bull’s Charge and Sword Leap with swiftness to escape just as easily 90% of the time. Elementalist can use Ride the Lightning and Blink. Mesmers can cloak just like thieves and blink as well. It’s not like you have to stay and fight with the other classes.

How many classes have a short cooldown or no cooldown on:
Runspeed and
Blink and
Vanish?

Uh initiative is a cooldown system. It’s just a global cooldown that we have to also share between weapons. So the tradeoff is we can spam skills but we can’t swap weaponsets to get all new cooldowns like other classes.

Runspeed is a waste of a utility slot for sPvP. You should be relying on swiftness.
Blink is superior than infiltrator’s arrow because it’s also stunbreak.
Vanish, I guess you mean stealth which is kind of what makes the thief different. It isn’t better than block in most cases. You can’t cap points while in stealth, player’s pets can still see you in stealth and follow you around leading people to wherever you are hiding.

The main problem with thief is that burst is about all we can do. So can a lot of other classes. Hundred blades is vastly underrated. Bull’s rush isn’t as easily avoided if you use it short range as well as Bolas. We can’t build bunker, so we’re relegated to being roamers. All classes can escape fights almost as well as a thief. Really the one overpowered class right now is mesmer. They have the best downstate. They have portal. Their elites are awesome. Guardians also need to be looked at as they are pretty much guaranteed being able to revive people properly built. 2 bunker Guardians can pretty much hold graveyard against all comers.

Thieves need other choices other than just focusing on damage. Right now there aren’t any even venomous aura (Anet needs to buff the range on the aura too 300 is really small) is weak compared to other support builds like ele’s, engi’s, mesmers, and guardians.

bwookie.3807:

Kolache.3964:

bwookie.3807:

Thief mobility is exaggerated. It is the best because no cooldown, but other classes all have good escape skills. Warriors can use their Bull’s Charge and Sword Leap with swiftness to escape just as easily 90% of the time. Elementalist can use Ride the Lightning and Blink. Mesmers can cloak just like thieves and blink as well. It’s not like you have to stay and fight with the other classes.

How many classes have a short cooldown or no cooldown on:
Runspeed and
Blink and
Vanish?

Uh initiative is a cooldown system. It’s just a global cooldown that we have to also share between weapons. So the tradeoff is we can spam skills but we can’t swap weaponsets to get all new cooldowns like other classes.

Runspeed is a waste of a utility slot for sPvP. You should be relying on swiftness.
Blink is superior than infiltrator’s arrow because it’s also stunbreak.
Vanish, I guess you mean stealth which is kind of what makes the thief different. It isn’t better than block in most cases. You can’t cap points while in stealth, player’s pets can still see you in stealth and follow you around leading people to wherever you are hiding.

I like how you make initiative sound like a compromising system since you are only able to effectively spam your single skill instead of being able to (or having to) weapon swap to get the job done.

So stealth doesn’t count because “I’m a thief lol”, teleport doesn’t count because it doesn’t include a stun breaker, and runspeed doesn’t count because you shouldn’t use it. Yeah, I guess you’re right under those circumstances thieves don’t have superior mobility.

Thiefs really need to be nerfed quite a lot…
People learn how to play them, that’s okay. But every base mechanic of this class is broken.

Kolache.3964:

bwookie.3807:

Kolache.3964:

bwookie.3807:

Thief mobility is exaggerated. It is the best because no cooldown, but other classes all have good escape skills. Warriors can use their Bull’s Charge and Sword Leap with swiftness to escape just as easily 90% of the time. Elementalist can use Ride the Lightning and Blink. Mesmers can cloak just like thieves and blink as well. It’s not like you have to stay and fight with the other classes.

How many classes have a short cooldown or no cooldown on:
Runspeed and
Blink and
Vanish?

Uh initiative is a cooldown system. It’s just a global cooldown that we have to also share between weapons. So the tradeoff is we can spam skills but we can’t swap weaponsets to get all new cooldowns like other classes.

Runspeed is a waste of a utility slot for sPvP. You should be relying on swiftness.
Blink is superior than infiltrator’s arrow because it’s also stunbreak.
Vanish, I guess you mean stealth which is kind of what makes the thief different. It isn’t better than block in most cases. You can’t cap points while in stealth, player’s pets can still see you in stealth and follow you around leading people to wherever you are hiding.

I like how you make initiative sound like a compromising system since you are only able to effectively spam your single skill instead of being able to (or having to) weapon swap to get the job done.

So stealth doesn’t count because “I’m a thief lol”, teleport doesn’t count because it doesn’t include a stun breaker, and runspeed doesn’t count because you shouldn’t use it. Yeah, I guess you’re right under those circumstances thieves don’t have superior mobility.

Initiative is a design choice Anet made. It just seems people seem to think it’s some godly thing when it’s just cooldown through a different mechanism.

Stealth is just stealth there isn’t anything special about it. It’s part of the class and was probably integral to the design of the class in the first place. There is no removing it without fundamentally changing the class. As for the rest of your examples I was just illustrating other classes get similar abilities. Runspeed of 25% isn’t all that great in sPvP. I’m not sure what’s controversial about that. Thieves have the best mobility (non-combat) but not necessarily are the best at escaping a fight. All the classes have skills to do that.

Needs more nerfs if I am not running max toughness and hp then I am eating dirt in 4 moves. Its no secret why every spvp match has at least 5 thieves in it. To clarify a dmg nerf may not even be neccssary but the complexity of pulling off these combos needs to be increased. Its just to easy to kill someone with thief and even if you screw up you can stealth up and run away or try again.

Thief downed state must be nerfed.

Why does every single game that comes out have to waste months of time and resource balancing the “I wanna be a Ninja and kill with impunity class”?

Cronoclops.5263:

Why does every single game that comes out have to waste months of time and resource balancing the “I wanna be a Ninja and kill with impunity class”?

Games that offer stealth in PvP so rarely seem to offer effective counters to it. It’s sort of an “all or nothing” deal I guess; if the class is based on stealth and stealth doesn’t work, the class doesn’t work.

Personally, I’ve always seen it as rogue classes should get bonus damage for less durability and positioning requirements. They should have tools that assist them with mitigating both penalties, but if their penalties don’t come into play on a regular basis then they are not effectively penalties anymore.

The other problem is the same tools that help with positioning inevitably help too much with escaping. Some escape tools are fine, but everyone should get caught with their pants down periodically, even when they play their class perfectly. If you play a rogue in some games perfectly, you really aren’t likely to be caught.

So I guess it’s all risk vs. reward that is usually screwed up, IMO.

I have played alot of games. I have played several at very high levels of play.

I have NEVER seen something as broken as the Thief before. For PvP, the class is completely anti-fun:

1. Bleed stack builds are pretty much griefing.
2. Almost impossible to kill with the stealth spam.
3. Backstab instagib from stealth – No way this should be in the game imo.
4. Stealth stomp – If this is a bug, then its just plain griefing and repeat offenders should be punished.
5. Downed state – high damage & mobility. Compared to most other classes downed state its just plain ridiculous (all downed states should be like Guardian imo – give you a chance to survive for a while, but not continue to grief the other player).
6. Some of their builds require no skill whatsoever. I rolled a thief, played pistol whip and within 15 mins I was owning people (I didnt even know what half the buttons were for and never weapon swapped)

Now, I am not good enough at the game to say if they are overpowered or not. However this is not my point. My point is that Thieves in their current state are not fun to play against at all and are ruining the fun potential of this game considerably.

I agree Thieves are “anti-fun” to play against, but they are pretty easy to beat. Unless, of course, you’re also running a glass cannon that isn’t a Thief. I only have 14k HP and 2500 armor on my Ele, and sure if I don’t see it coming backstab will gib me, but I find Thieves easy to beat.

The amount of “nerf thief” posts is overwhelming. Seriously scroll down the list, bud.

I’m not explicitly saying that thieves need a nerf. I’m saying their abilities need to be reworked.

Dress it up how you want. We have all heard it… several hundred times before

ehtom.5047:

I have played alot of games. I have played several at very high levels of play.

I have NEVER seen something as broken as the Thief before. For PvP, the class is completely anti-fun:

1. Bleed stack builds are pretty much griefing.

do you mean leaping death blossom builds or pistol main hands builds? there are two, one revolves around a ton of ini regen and using one move, the other around stealth.

death blossom build is actually easily dealt with, if youd take your time to time your CC, a true LDB build has all its eggs in regenning ini for more LDB’s.

pistol main hand is actually harder cuz the bleeds only last a couple seconds, making removing the majority of hte damage via condition removal harder. ive played the spec, its fun, but a little too wonky for me. good at holding a point tho. but yes, im sure people will start whining about it soon until its nerfed. the fact that you didnt take the time to time your attacks when hes not in evasion frames means you werent learning tho.

2. Almost impossible to kill with the stealth spam.

stealth is bugged, resulting in less sight time then intended. you should be able to see him for 3 seconds before he can enter stealth again, because of the bugs its more like .1-1 second. its a problem that needs fixing i agree. tho i think theres hackers too, had a LDB thief doing this to me, couldnt NOT figure out what he was using to stealth as it didnt seem to be CnD or any skill i could make out.

3. Backstab instagib from stealth – No way this should be in the game imo.

agreed, they need to nerf that spec, that individual spec.

4. Stealth stomp – If this is a bug, then its just plain griefing and repeat offenders should be punished.

stealth stomp is weaker then stability stomp, and weaker then blind stomp as well. certain classes can interrupt it, but that just means other calsses probably should. the downed state is fun, but lets make no mistake there are some adjustments needing to be made to some classes.

5. Downed state – high damage & mobility. Compared to most other classes downed state its just plain ridiculous (all downed states should be like Guardian imo – give you a chance to survive for a while, but not continue to grief the other player).

thieves have one of the weakest downed states in the game in terms of damage actually. tho its survivability is too high too imo.

6. Some of their builds require no skill whatsoever. I rolled a thief, played pistol whip and within 15 mins I was owning people (I didnt even know what half the buttons were for and never weapon swapped)

thieves are a bit different then most classes if you havent noticed. they dont weapon swap to maximize damage, it just gives them a different set of utiltiies, that and 90% of thieves go shortbow for its mobility and aoe/comboing, since most thief specs dont have any aoe. however i can go into pvp untraited and kill people…with any class, know why? cuz a lot of people in spvp are truly bad. but i played PW too, and what i noticed is vs bads it worked great, vs anyone with some brains id die before the animation ended on it unhasted. but sorry we dont stance dance, weapon swap and hit CD’s, not how we were designed…you can say its a bad design thats fine, you have a right to.

Now, I am not good enough at the game to say if they are overpowered or not. However this is not my point. My point is that Thieves in their current state are not fun to play against at all and are ruining the fun potential of this game considerably.

when the bugs are fixed, and hte one shotting fixed…it will be different, however, look at the history of these types of games. people hate any thing slippery or stealthy, they will always label it as unfun. so unless anet gets rid of thieves or nerfs themt o the point where they are far and away the worst class in the game, your always gonna hate them.

it’s WoW rogues all over again lol. proves to me that maybe ANet actually didnt know what they were doing with pvp balance.

Clearly,you haven’t fought against good Mesmers yet.

kittenon.8572:

Clearly,you haven’t fought against good Mesmers yet.

Epitome of the “most forgiving class” in competitive play. Seriously you would have to be bad to not know how to face-roll with this class.

I do also find some mesmer builds very annoying (shatter builds are pretty lame imo) but they dont seem to have absolutely everything you could possibly want like thieves.

Lately ive been playing a lot of >4 players sPVP rooms to avoid zerging, and finaly being able to improve my skills (There’s really no improvement at all playing 5v5 or higher).

But Im suffering against a certain thief type that keeps hoping and jumping and rolling non-stop around me evading every single attack, right now im playing as a ranger because im more experienced with it, so there is no AOE for me to use besides kitteny traps that do nothing and they still evade the aoe from them…

So what to do? Im fairly tanky and mobile with sword/torch and longbow but It is really hard to avoid being killed during their acrobatics, cant disengage because they are extremely fast and have lots of gapclosers… Once my stun breaker is used, by the time they stopped hopping im with 10% or less hp.

I think exactly wich kind of thiefs you mean by that..

There seems to be hardly any flaw in there acrobatics, i can tell you one thing tho.. if you just stand there taking in 5 or 6 db you’re screwed.. at least try to dodge 2 of them to stand a remote chance. the first time i saw a thief like this who knew what he was doing he actually downed 3 people in a very short time.. that made me thing.. theres no way to catch this guy.. youre immobilize or cc will get evaded 100% of the time.. i think you need to catch them the moment theyre done spamming there db.. some can spam up to 4 or 5 or even more if specced correctly.

save cc for the moment theyre done.. then go to town.. db spammers have low hp guaranteed because they probably walk around with a carion neck oh yea and dodge dodge dodge..

having 100% evade during an attack and be able to spam it 4 to 6 times in a 12 second period.. then go invis to get youre initative back and then repeat the same cycle.. is seriously a bit broken tho.. pistolwhip and backstabbing rogues can be avoided.. but these rogues annoy me to no end.. they do go down most of the time now tho..

I was surprised by a death blossom thief once. I was more surprised by the amount of condition damage he did. 15k bleed damage in a matter of seconds.
Sure I guess I could have cleaned the conditions, but with no other class is it necessary to do this fast. When a thief has better condition damage than a necromancer, it just isn’t funny anymore.
All of their builds are overpowered, and they are centered around 1 ability.

That thief build while retardedly annoying you should still be able to hit them, probably try switching to a shortbow and just bleed them to death as well, with 1 spam.

I cant take the 12sec of punishment without losing 90% health, even when dodging and trying to disengage, there is too much condition damage and I only have 1 skill that removes them. If I want to remove more than one time I cant be invincible for 6 sec and get destroyed by the end of the hoping.

I can usually hit them hard once they stop jumping around but when they get to 25% hp or less they disengage with stealth and after 5sec or so they are back with the hopping.

So either I build more damage and dont survive the first onslaught or I build more tanky and deal no damage before they stealth again. I cant think of anything people, help me out here.

Catastrophe.2407:

That thief build while retardedly annoying you should still be able to hit them, probably try switching to a shortbow and just bleed them to death as well, with 1 spam.

I hate shortbow, it is cheessy and boring. If this is what it would take to kill such thing, ill just leave the room once I see a death blossom thief…

They are not centered around one ability, havent you seen all the post’s complaining about heart seeker? Or c&d? Or cluster bomb? Long story short, if you can survive the spike, you have it in the bag. ALWAYS expect a big spike, then they have to run away while there init recharges

They way I deal with thieves as a GS ranger is to use counter-attack after the initial hit. The knockback will interrupt their chain and then you can use hilt-bash and zephyr’s speed to hit them with your pet and quickness.

ChillyChinaman.6057:

They way I deal with thieves as a GS ranger is to use counter-attack after the initial hit. The knockback will interrupt their chain and then you can use hilt-bash and zephyr’s speed to hit them with your pet and quickness.

This is a death blossom thief, they EVADE 100% of your attacks.

The only way I would be able to tank the damage (it is not burst, it is sustained damage) would be with 3k toughness or more and no less than 20k hp. Then my damage is comparable with a necromancer minion. I’ve tried that.

And it is not spam, please dont act like this is one of dem threads “thiefs no skill spamming”. This kind of thief knows what he’s doing and it is not as simple as spamming.

SyntaxKid.5896:

They are not centered around one ability, havent you seen all the post’s complaining about heart seeker? Or c&d? Or cluster bomb? Long story short, if you can survive the spike, you have it in the bag. ALWAYS expect a big spike, then they have to run away while there init recharges

I beg to differ.
Backstabbuild: backstab is main source of damage, rest is filler.
Pistolwhip build: Pw is main source of damage, spam with haste
Aoe damage build: clusterbomb spam
Condition build: death blossom spam
Heartseaker build: hs spam, but luckily that build has become less viable.

Long story short, if you can survive the spike, you have it in the bag. ALWAYS expect a big spike, then they have to run away while there init recharges

So what you’re saying is that if you can survive the spike, they can run away via one of many stealths, until their init recharges, at which point if you can survive the next spike, they can run away via one of their stealths, until their init recharges, at which point if you can survive the wait… That’s not in the bag at all!

Burrid.4739:

I was surprised by a death blossom thief once. I was more surprised by the amount of condition damage he did. 15k bleed damage in a matter of seconds.
Sure I guess I could have cleaned the conditions, but with no other class is it necessary to do this fast. When a thief has better condition damage than a necromancer, it just isn’t funny anymore.
All of their builds are overpowered, and they are centered around 1 ability.

they are supposed to be centered around one ability (for damage) thats how thief is designed

as for OP or UP, i dont feel like debating that.

1 button class no matter the spec, (it just changes which button you spam) seems like a fun and legit class. probly why its the most played class in spvp. I thought people in 2012 would prefer a fun in depth playstyle. which can be found in most other classes. dont “nerf” the thief. just change it so it takes all your buttons like the rest of us

Mike.9185:

1 button class no matter the spec, (it just changes which button you spam) seems like a fun and legit class. probly why its the most played class in spvp. I thought people in 2012 would prefer a fun in depth playstyle. which can be found in most other classes. dont “nerf” the thief. just change it so it takes all your buttons like the rest of us

this is literally childish whining, barely above a 3 year old tantrum only cuz you can spell and use more adjectives.

and its human nature to take the path of least resistance, yes a thief is easier to pick up and play then say a elementalist. however it still has depth if you can put your love of HS spam away for a minute and actually use the initiative system for how it was intended, not just face value. having the ability to use your utility skills (which is 4/5th of the thieves skills per weapon out of stealth) back to back can be amazing and open a lot of fun gameplay. sadly most people never venture beyond press the damage move add infinty