Guild Wars 2

Why in the world were thieves buffed, I know people are going to say they were nerfed but that’s horse poo. They teleport around now 2x more/faster and it just makes them almost impossible to kill. I’m not talking about the crappy hot join thieves, I’m talking about the higher ranked skilled thieves who know how to play. They are overpowered 100% I might actually go roll one now just for SPVP.

I must have missed the part in the patch notes where they buffed teleporting.

Seems that the only part about teleporting I read was where they put a cast time on the sword teleport.

Buffs
Increased the base rate of initiative gain from .75 per second to 1 per second

Nerfs
Critical Strikes VIII—Signet Use: Reduced the initiative gain from 2 to 1
Critical Strikes 15—Opportunist: Increased the trigger chance to 50%. Increased the cooldown from 1 second to 5 seconds.
Shadow Arts V—Infusion of Shadow: Increased the amount of initiative gained to 2, but only when entering stealth. (it was always 2)
Acrobatics IX—Quick Recovery: Reduced the initiative gain from 2 to 1.
Trickery 5— – Kleptomaniac: Reduced the initiative gain from 3 to 2.

Yeah…what do thieves have left?

Permastealth → nerfed
S/D evadespam→ nerfed
S/P Pistol whip → nerfed
D/P condis → Can’t hold a point, useless in teamfights

Thieves are only effective against full-glass casuals who don’t know how to counter their very simple mechanics.

CrazyDuck.4610:

Why in the world were thieves buffed, I know people are going to say they were nerfed but that’s horse poo. They teleport around now 2x more/faster and it just makes them almost impossible to kill. I’m not talking about the crappy hot join thieves, I’m talking about the higher ranked skilled thieves who know how to play. They are overpowered 100% I might actually go roll one now just for SPVP.

lol I think you mean teleporting 2x more slower since they nerf sword into the ground by adding the cast time to IR.

no sane guy plays thief anymore and threads like this pop up, LOLWUT.

Chigikogou.4329:

Not “buffed”

You may see some thieves using this: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hard_to_Catch
(I used it for a while)
It has been recently moved from Grandmaster to Master trait.. and due to the lack of better useful traits it has been instead used as a filler.. or atleast I do.

Yea, some people are probably using that, but they’re still CCed after they port and they won’t be more than 600 away, lol.

haha. I think the OP had this written ahead of time and was just waiting to post it. Of course he made himself look totally silly.

The better question is whether thieves have a role in tpvp going forward. I’m not sure they have a particular role that another class couldn’t do better. We will see as the meta evolves.

Wasn’t Caed’s D/P build (one of the better builds although higher skill) actually buffed? For most builds its a buff b/c you don’t need as many init-giving traits anymore, so you can take MOAR DAMAGE, or if you didn’t have any init-giving traits, you can just spam more now.

BlackBeard.2873:

Wasn’t Caed’s D/P build (one of the better builds although higher skill) actually buffed? For most builds its a buff b/c you don’t need as many init-giving traits anymore, so you can take MOAR DAMAGE, or if you didn’t have any init-giving traits, you can just spam more now.

Yea, standard D/P builds (25/30/0/0/15, 10/30/0/0/30, etc.) are slightly better with the initiative change. However, it’s not a huge difference, particularly since the initiative regen from First Strikes in the CS tree was nerfed.

There are no porting weapon abilities with D/P though, so the initiative change certainly won’t make this build do what the OP suggested.

the thiefs are 2 times harder to kill after a patch i am afraid they are teleporting all around now even more and some thiefs that i have owned on daily basis now toy with me

I don’t really think the overall balance changes much for Thieves.

I don’t think they were significantly nerfed, nor significantly buffed. Things were just changed around slightly without upsetting much actual game-play.

They are indeed teleporting more, but not because of buffs. Since SR was nerfed, you can’t stay on the fight for so long until you are CCed. So it’s easier to just jump in → hit you → jump out. Hence, teleporting more (and the init buffs helps a bit).

Asomal.6453:

They are indeed teleporting more, but not because of buffs. Since SR was nerfed, you can’t stay on the fight for so long until you are CCed. So it’s easier to just jump in -> hit you -> jump out. Hence, teleporting more (and the init buffs helps a bit).

Exactly, with the initiative buff it makes this tactic just overpowered. And when a thief does 8k dmg backstab teleports back and forth perma immobilizing with no cooldowns it’s pretty ridiculous. I just tried out a thief build and I owned everyone on the map. Now if I actually mastered that build it would be stupid in TPVP, with that initiative regen it makes them just crazy good in T/SPVP. I teleport all around/doing backstabs with perma immob no one can touch me. And I don’t know what vince is talking about cast time on IR? If it does I didn’t even notice it.

CrazyDuck.4610:

Exactly, with the initiative buff it makes this tactic just overpowered. And when a thief does 8k dmg backstab teleports back and forth perma immobilizing with no cooldowns it’s pretty ridiculous. I just tried out http://intothemists.com/guides/5-cruuks_decapitation_build and I owned everyone on the map. Now if I actually mastered that build it would be stupid in TPVP, with that initiative regen it makes them just crazy good in T/SPVP. I teleport all around/doing backstabs with perma immob no one can touch me.

Just a heads up: Perma stealth in this build got nerfed, HS 4 times through blackpowder isn’t a valid tactic anymore. Also there is no “teleporting back and forth” with a backstab setup (the teleports are from sword, not dagger, so you have a 9s window between backstab and teleports)
Also, only spamming 2 from sword (for that perma immob) is very weak in solo fights. Only reason to do it is to delay someone from reaching point X or to open windows for your team (I might be wrong here, those are the only reasons I’d use it at least)

Infiltrator’s return now has a 0.25s cast time, which means it can only be used before you’re hit by a hard CC. Combine it with skill delay it’s usually .5-1s making it hard to reflexively use it when you see a stun incoming.

IS-IR isn’t buffed but nerfed, which makes thief (if they use it) use the return part premature just in case a stun would’ve been used.

Errant Venture.9371:

Yeah…what do thieves have left?

Permastealth -> nerfed
S/D evadespam-> nerfed
S/P Pistol whip -> nerfed
D/P condis -> Can’t hold a point, useless in teamfights

Thieves are only effective against full-glass casuals who don’t know how to counter their very simple mechanics.

You are very wrong here. Thieves are excellent at controling far point, enough that a thief should make it so their homepoint can NEVER leave his point.

They also are great for pushing fights in a direction with a quick burst in 1v1 to a good spike in teamfights.

Their mobility also lets them control side objectives, like shadowtrap treb or boss steal.

Gwalch you can do HS 3 times in black powder which is plenty. I just get a few seconds of stealth, do a backstab then sword #2 out, rinse and repeat there seems to be no “cooldown” it feels like anymore because of the fast initiative regen I guess. And yes main reason for the spam #2 sword was on a guardian to let my teamates destroy him. It felt overpowered even playing as a thief, I am going to retire my mesmer in SPVP/TPVP for now:P Also Errant you obviously haven’t fought good thieves, I have seen some rank 50-60 thieves that will destroy any class/build very quickly and even if they are outnumbered. And after this patch it seems they are even better then before.

CrazyDuck.4610:

Gwalch you can do HS 3 times in black powder which is plenty. I just get a few seconds of stealth, do a backstab then sword #2 out, rinse and repeat there seems to be no “cooldown” it feels like anymore because of the fast initiative regen I guess. And yes main reason for the spam #2 sword was on a guardian to let my teamates destroy him. It felt overpowered even playing as a thief, I am going to retire my mesmer in SPVP/TPVP for now:P Also Errant you obviously haven’t fought good thieves, I have seen some rank 50-60 thieves that will destroy any class/build very quickly and even if they are outnumbered. And after this patch it seems they are even better then before.

Everything you’ve written here is either hyperbole or outright lies. If you can’t make your point without exaggeration and misinformation, it’s not really a point.

CrazyDuck.4610:

do a backstab then sword #2 out

wat?!?

tell me your magic

Crazyduck, I think you’re full of hogwash, and have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about when talking about the thief profession. You cannot describe the situation enough that a thief can do a) a backstab and b) infil return out. I think you should really look at thief gameplay, describe how the “high-level thieves” you’ve faced or watched do their stuff, tell us about their weapon set choices and possible trait lines.

At the moment, everyone else knows what they’re talking about except you. You’ve just shown yourself to be absolutely clueless about thieves, and I’m pretty sure a few of us already know what you mean by “sword #2 out”

Adding upon that, the x/30/30/x/x build with d/p could still work, but requires an even more refined gameplay to land your damage and pressure. It still has quite some time in stealth with 3 Heartseekers, but the overall might stack gain and overall time in stealth has been reduced, and with it, overall pressure and “guessing when the thief would land their backstab”.

Are they still annoying to face? Yes. Are they still something that could take you out quickly? In some ways, yes.

This change actually made me feel useful for something, I can indeed use Infiltrators Arrow more frequently, and we were promised more mobility a while ago.

While guardians and engineers can stand immortal and knock ppl off points, I can go quickly between points supporting my team with poison and dmg pressure from SB and spike with D/D, or take far point when the enemies go all in on close and mid, to force 1 of them to disengage.

1v1 is usually hopeless, some go down really quickly making it worth it, but many doesn’t, creating extended fights and since you wont stand on the point most of the fight, it’s completely useless and you are better off leaving. Fighting bosses in some maps is really time consuming, taking buffs can also be hopeless since it can involve 1v1, and 1v2 where you go down really quickly if you don’t escape.

So this minor ini regen buff, actually made us thieves stronger at something we already were strong at, but we also received some nerfs making us weaker in a lot of other areas. Thieves are still the most selfish class (or most generous with venomshare), and by being selfish to your team mates sometimes leaving them to die, you can do useful things for your team that in the end will lead to your win.

I play 25/30/0/0/15 D/D + SB, and it feels really smooth now for once.
I also swap to 10/30/0/0/30 D/P + SB from time to time.
I was playing S/D before the patch and I believe it’s still viable, but the IS/IR nerf was really huge to the set, and made the set a lot harder, but in the right hands it can still perform really good.

If thieves are complaining about being nerfed, they were using a low skill cap build.

Why do the worst thieves end up being the ones puking bullcrap about the state of their class on the forums?

I guess they need to be carried by Sword 2 to get carried by their teammates. Pathetic

Asomal.6453:

They are indeed teleporting more, but not because of buffs. Since SR was nerfed, you can’t stay on the fight for so long until you are CCed. So it’s easier to just jump in -> hit you -> jump out. Hence, teleporting more (and the init buffs helps a bit).

This is some seriously crappy logic. For one thing, initiative wasn’t entirely buffed; in fact, the vast majority of commonly used initiative-gaining traits were nerfed. As a user of Quick Recovery, for example, 40% of the gain from the increase in base initiative regeneration has been nullified, and the Kleptomaniac nerf has reduced that gain by another ~12.4%. Across all traits, there has been a great deal of initiative nerfing that people do not seem to account for very much.

Either way, you fail to realize that Infi Return now has a pretty long cast time on it (about 4x longer than what the patch says), and it’s also queued into your weapon skills. Furthermore, it can’t be used as a “stun breaker” (which it never really was, but still was useful against stuns), and, given that it’s pretty much our sole source of condi removal for S/D builds (with very few exceptions), the nerf that’s been done to Infi Return was absolutely massive.

Relentless.7023:

Why do the worst thieves end up being the ones puking bullcrap about the state of their class on the forums?

I guess they need to be carried by Sword 2 to get carried by their teammates. Pathetic

It’s funny that people like you say this, because there have been many “top” thieves- such as Jumper and Caed- that have complained about the balance of the thief or the balance of the game in general.

It’s also amusing because your stereotype means that thieves should never, ever be buffed, i.e. the ones asking for buffs are just “bad thieves” and should be ignored.

CrazyDuck.4610:

Asomal.6453:

They are indeed teleporting more, but not because of buffs. Since SR was nerfed, you can’t stay on the fight for so long until you are CCed. So it’s easier to just jump in -> hit you -> jump out. Hence, teleporting more (and the init buffs helps a bit).

Exactly, with the initiative buff it makes this tactic just overpowered. And when a thief does 8k dmg backstab teleports back and forth perma immobilizing with no cooldowns it’s pretty ridiculous. I just tried out a thief build and I owned everyone on the map. Now if I actually mastered that build it would be stupid in TPVP, with that initiative regen it makes them just crazy good in T/SPVP. I teleport all around/doing backstabs with perma immob no one can touch me. And I don’t know what vince is talking about cast time on IR? If it does I didn’t even notice it.

FRAPS or it didn’t happen. Look forward to seeing it.

CrazyDuck.4610:

Gwalch you can do HS 3 times in black powder which is plenty. I just get a few seconds of stealth, do a backstab then sword #2 out, rinse and repeat there seems to be no “cooldown” it feels like anymore because of the fast initiative regen I guess. And yes main reason for the spam #2 sword was on a guardian to let my teamates destroy him. It felt overpowered even playing as a thief, I am going to retire my mesmer in SPVP/TPVP for now:P Also Errant you obviously haven’t fought good thieves, I have seen some rank 50-60 thieves that will destroy any class/build very quickly and even if they are outnumbered. And after this patch it seems they are even better then before.

For the record I am one of the R56 thieves you saw, I remember you.

Basically what you said, or also when you can Backstab twice before getting out of stealth if you spam it fast enough -also second one is free-, then chain it with heartseeker + Blind-Powder during the stomp to dodge and free teleport to a second target while still getting the cap, ignoring the Revealed debuff and going to stealth, and you got time to HS 3 times in the BP to be sure -just because-, without any form of cooldowns, then I just usually spam sword #2 without weapon-swapping, no CD and no cast-time to finish it off with a backstab here and then, and with the insane energy regen you can do it indefinitely, and even when I am outnumbered this right there wins me the fight, whatever class my opponents play lol.

I mean it’s so kitten easy, I played a guardian in sPvP before and my life was so hard but now, after listening to American Ninja 1-2-3 my spirit and mind became as one, my life has changed and I play a DD-SD-DP thief -all at the same time, to be sure-. I mean thief is so broken post Dec10 patch, the buffs it got are just ridiculous and you understand very well the thief mechanics CrazyDuck.

TLDR : Don’t take CrazyDuck.4610 too seriously, he lives under a bridge and it’s pretty obvious.

thiefs are to strong after a patch to strong,evade evade evade stealth then port then evade then port,whole faking day blinking,now we will be nailed by thiefs for 2 months,i am really kitten ed off

Lol what a kitten. They nerfed basically everything about thieves that has to do with teleporting… its almost underpowered right now… go roll one lmao

Paragon.5479:

thiefs are to strong after a patch to strong,evade evade evade stealth then port then evade then port,whole faking day blinking,now we will be nailed by thiefs for 2 months,i am really kitten ed off

mighty meak.6387:

i heal and i heal and i heal moar
but w t f
i am alone
no one helps no loves
sword#2
i die no win
nailed by thief
all is vain

All is vain.

Shiver.5903:

Paragon.5479:

thiefs are to strong after a patch to strong,evade evade evade stealth then port then evade then port,whole faking day blinking,now we will be nailed by thiefs for 2 months,i am really kitten ed off

mighty meak.6387:

i heal and i heal and i heal moar
but w t f
i am alone
no one helps no loves
sword#2
i die no win
nailed by thief
all is vain

All is vain.

ALL IS VAIN

Arganthium.5638:

Relentless.7023:

Why do the worst thieves end up being the ones puking bullcrap about the state of their class on the forums?

I guess they need to be carried by Sword 2 to get carried by their teammates. Pathetic

It’s funny that people like you say this, because there have been many “top” thieves- such as Jumper and Caed- that have complained about the balance of the thief or the balance of the game in general.

It’s also amusing because your stereotype means that thieves should never, ever be buffed, i.e. the ones asking for buffs are just “bad thieves” and should be ignored.

I just ran D/P Trickery tonight and the initiative gain is pretty dope. Your “claim to fame” is a S/D build which tells me exactly what your sig says “retired.” Baddie is baddie.

Relentless.7023:

Arganthium.5638:

Relentless.7023:

Why do the worst thieves end up being the ones puking bullcrap about the state of their class on the forums?

I guess they need to be carried by Sword 2 to get carried by their teammates. Pathetic

It’s funny that people like you say this, because there have been many “top” thieves- such as Jumper and Caed- that have complained about the balance of the thief or the balance of the game in general.

It’s also amusing because your stereotype means that thieves should never, ever be buffed, i.e. the ones asking for buffs are just “bad thieves” and should be ignored.

I just ran D/P Trickery tonight and the initiative gain is pretty dope. Your “claim to fame” is a S/D build which tells me exactly what your sig says “retired.” Baddie is baddie.

D/P trickery is a useless build in current meta, good only in team queue where, in any case, there’re better choices.

The fact it’s our strongest build ( and, tbh, was already on par after Flanking strike was nerfed to 1 boon stealing) says it wide about thief viability.

You can trash talk as much as you want, right now thief is useless: i would pick up a mesmer everyday.

Yes hi shiver I remember you too, you are def one of them I’m not trying to troll here btw so no I don’t live under a bridge lmfao.

Xoom you are right I have played thief for 2 hours I couldn’t remember the skill. With the new initiative regen it seems to be happening faster/hitting harder then before. And I do not know how the high level thieves are playing because honestly its in TPVP so I cant see their trait setup. But I know the play style is similar to what I was doing, atleast from what I see. Backstab then/infil out but the speed they are doing it and the evades/damage they are doing is overpowered.

Mrbig.8019:

Shiver.5903:

Paragon.5479:

thiefs are to strong after a patch to strong,evade evade evade stealth then port then evade then port,whole faking day blinking,now we will be nailed by thiefs for 2 months,i am really kitten ed off

mighty meak.6387:

i heal and i heal and i heal moar
but w t f
i am alone
no one helps no loves
sword#2
i die no win
nailed by thief
all is vain

All is vain.

ALL IS VAIN

All is vain

thief so op he win all fights he no lose ever.

All is vain.

thieves DID get buffed. it’s stupid i know.

Arganthium.5638:

Asomal.6453:

They are indeed teleporting more, but not because of buffs. Since SR was nerfed, you can’t stay on the fight for so long until you are CCed. So it’s easier to just jump in -> hit you -> jump out. Hence, teleporting more (and the init buffs helps a bit).

This is some seriously crappy logic. For one thing, initiative wasn’t entirely buffed; in fact, the vast majority of commonly used initiative-gaining traits were nerfed. As a user of Quick Recovery, for example, 40% of the gain from the increase in base initiative regeneration has been nullified, and the Kleptomaniac nerf has reduced that gain by another ~12.4%. Across all traits, there has been a great deal of initiative nerfing that people do not seem to account for very much.

Either way, you fail to realize that Infi Return now has a pretty long cast time on it (about 4x longer than what the patch says), and it’s also queued into your weapon skills. Furthermore, it can’t be used as a “stun breaker” (which it never really was, but still was useful against stuns), and, given that it’s pretty much our sole source of condi removal for S/D builds (with very few exceptions), the nerf that’s been done to Infi Return was absolutely massive.

Wth are you talking buddy? I know sword 2 in general was nerfed (I mentioned it). Also, the new initiative system does help. Since you are jumping out of the fight more often (not reseting combat, just standing at a safe distance), you are not getting anything from Opportunist. With Quick Recovery nerfed, I don’t pick it anymore, but something else

Asomal.6453:

Arganthium.5638:

Asomal.6453:

They are indeed teleporting more, but not because of buffs. Since SR was nerfed, you can’t stay on the fight for so long until you are CCed. So it’s easier to just jump in -> hit you -> jump out. Hence, teleporting more (and the init buffs helps a bit).

This is some seriously crappy logic. For one thing, initiative wasn’t entirely buffed; in fact, the vast majority of commonly used initiative-gaining traits were nerfed. As a user of Quick Recovery, for example, 40% of the gain from the increase in base initiative regeneration has been nullified, and the Kleptomaniac nerf has reduced that gain by another ~12.4%. Across all traits, there has been a great deal of initiative nerfing that people do not seem to account for very much.

Either way, you fail to realize that Infi Return now has a pretty long cast time on it (about 4x longer than what the patch says), and it’s also queued into your weapon skills. Furthermore, it can’t be used as a “stun breaker” (which it never really was, but still was useful against stuns), and, given that it’s pretty much our sole source of condi removal for S/D builds (with very few exceptions), the nerf that’s been done to Infi Return was absolutely massive.

Wth are you talking buddy? I know sword 2 in general was nerfed (I mentioned it). Also, the new initiative system does help. Since you are jumping out of the fight more often (not reseting combat, just standing at a safe distance), you are not getting anything from Opportunist. With Quick Recovery nerfed, I don’t pick it anymore, but something else

As someone who’s played a sword thief for a while, spamming 2 will never win you a fight. IS doesn’t do near enough damage and is often blocked due to it now being just an initiator and emergency small Condi clear when the pressure isn’t high. Teleporting more actually decreases the pressure, something sword thief needs to upkeep in order to have a chance at winning a fight. You must be in yoloQ and n00bjoin with terrible thieves, and I doubt you’ve lost a fight to any who are actively using their IS and IR (sword 2), because you just can’t keep enough damage going to kill anything. IR is also no longer a reliable active dodge, due to its 1/4 second cast time plus reaction time.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Asomal.6453:

Arganthium.5638:

Asomal.6453:

They are indeed teleporting more, but not because of buffs. Since SR was nerfed, you can’t stay on the fight for so long until you are CCed. So it’s easier to just jump in -> hit you -> jump out. Hence, teleporting more (and the init buffs helps a bit).

This is some seriously crappy logic. For one thing, initiative wasn’t entirely buffed; in fact, the vast majority of commonly used initiative-gaining traits were nerfed. As a user of Quick Recovery, for example, 40% of the gain from the increase in base initiative regeneration has been nullified, and the Kleptomaniac nerf has reduced that gain by another ~12.4%. Across all traits, there has been a great deal of initiative nerfing that people do not seem to account for very much.

Either way, you fail to realize that Infi Return now has a pretty long cast time on it (about 4x longer than what the patch says), and it’s also queued into your weapon skills. Furthermore, it can’t be used as a “stun breaker” (which it never really was, but still was useful against stuns), and, given that it’s pretty much our sole source of condi removal for S/D builds (with very few exceptions), the nerf that’s been done to Infi Return was absolutely massive.

Wth are you talking buddy? I know sword 2 in general was nerfed (I mentioned it). Also, the new initiative system does help. Since you are jumping out of the fight more often (not reseting combat, just standing at a safe distance), you are not getting anything from Opportunist. With Quick Recovery nerfed, I don’t pick it anymore, but something else

As someone who’s played a sword thief for a while, spamming 2 will never win you a fight. IS doesn’t do near enough damage and is often blocked due to it now being just an initiator and emergency small Condi clear when the pressure isn’t high. Teleporting more actually decreases the pressure, something sword thief needs to upkeep in order to have a chance at winning a fight. You must be in yoloQ and n00bjoin with terrible thieves, and I doubt you’ve lost a fight to any who are actively using their IS and IR (sword 2), because you just can’t keep enough damage going to kill anything. IR is also no longer a reliable active dodge, due to its 1/4 second cast time plus reaction time.

Geez, is like you people can’t read at all. Where did I say to spam 2? Jumping in and out means you are not staying near your opponent for so long, waiting for him to hit you (you can’t risk, once IR has a casting time). Example mesmers: You jump on him and he uses Decoy. You know he is going to either summon a Phantasm, use Magic Bullet or Illusionary Leap. There’s no point on staying there, so you jump out. Once he reappears, you jump in again.

Asomal.6453:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Asomal.6453:

Arganthium.5638:

Asomal.6453:

They are indeed teleporting more, but not because of buffs. Since SR was nerfed, you can’t stay on the fight for so long until you are CCed. So it’s easier to just jump in -> hit you -> jump out. Hence, teleporting more (and the init buffs helps a bit).

This is some seriously crappy logic. For one thing, initiative wasn’t entirely buffed; in fact, the vast majority of commonly used initiative-gaining traits were nerfed. As a user of Quick Recovery, for example, 40% of the gain from the increase in base initiative regeneration has been nullified, and the Kleptomaniac nerf has reduced that gain by another ~12.4%. Across all traits, there has been a great deal of initiative nerfing that people do not seem to account for very much.

Either way, you fail to realize that Infi Return now has a pretty long cast time on it (about 4x longer than what the patch says), and it’s also queued into your weapon skills. Furthermore, it can’t be used as a “stun breaker” (which it never really was, but still was useful against stuns), and, given that it’s pretty much our sole source of condi removal for S/D builds (with very few exceptions), the nerf that’s been done to Infi Return was absolutely massive.

Wth are you talking buddy? I know sword 2 in general was nerfed (I mentioned it). Also, the new initiative system does help. Since you are jumping out of the fight more often (not reseting combat, just standing at a safe distance), you are not getting anything from Opportunist. With Quick Recovery nerfed, I don’t pick it anymore, but something else

As someone who’s played a sword thief for a while, spamming 2 will never win you a fight. IS doesn’t do near enough damage and is often blocked due to it now being just an initiator and emergency small Condi clear when the pressure isn’t high. Teleporting more actually decreases the pressure, something sword thief needs to upkeep in order to have a chance at winning a fight. You must be in yoloQ and n00bjoin with terrible thieves, and I doubt you’ve lost a fight to any who are actively using their IS and IR (sword 2), because you just can’t keep enough damage going to kill anything. IR is also no longer a reliable active dodge, due to its 1/4 second cast time plus reaction time.

Geez, is like you people can’t read at all. Where did I say to spam 2? Jumping in and out means you are not staying near your opponent for so long, waiting for him to hit you (you can’t risk, once IR has a casting time). Example mesmers: You jump on him and he uses Decoy. You know he is going to either summon a Phantasm, use Magic Bullet or Illusionary Leap. There’s no point on staying there, so you jump out. Once he reappears, you jump in again.

Skill 2 is a thief’s teleport in/out. Perhaps if you would take the time to learn the class mechanics you would know this. I see nothing wrong with the example you pointed out, but I still disagree that thieves are doing this more than before. Before the patch, the cast time for Infiltrator’s Return was instant, and was widely used as an alternative to dodging highly telegraphed moves. As I pointed out, however, if a thief wants to use this as a dodge since the patch, they’re forced with a 1/4 second cast time, rendering it useless against most telegraphed attacks as an active dodge. Again, if a thief is still doing this more, they’re failing to provide sustained damage and will thusly lose the fight. It’s nothing worth complaining over.

Guys stop feeding the troll. He’s so hungry but don’t do it!

Asomal.6453:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Asomal.6453:

Arganthium.5638:

Asomal.6453:

They are indeed teleporting more, but not because of buffs. Since SR was nerfed, you can’t stay on the fight for so long until you are CCed. So it’s easier to just jump in -> hit you -> jump out. Hence, teleporting more (and the init buffs helps a bit).

This is some seriously crappy logic. For one thing, initiative wasn’t entirely buffed; in fact, the vast majority of commonly used initiative-gaining traits were nerfed. As a user of Quick Recovery, for example, 40% of the gain from the increase in base initiative regeneration has been nullified, and the Kleptomaniac nerf has reduced that gain by another ~12.4%. Across all traits, there has been a great deal of initiative nerfing that people do not seem to account for very much.

Either way, you fail to realize that Infi Return now has a pretty long cast time on it (about 4x longer than what the patch says), and it’s also queued into your weapon skills. Furthermore, it can’t be used as a “stun breaker” (which it never really was, but still was useful against stuns), and, given that it’s pretty much our sole source of condi removal for S/D builds (with very few exceptions), the nerf that’s been done to Infi Return was absolutely massive.

Wth are you talking buddy? I know sword 2 in general was nerfed (I mentioned it). Also, the new initiative system does help. Since you are jumping out of the fight more often (not reseting combat, just standing at a safe distance), you are not getting anything from Opportunist. With Quick Recovery nerfed, I don’t pick it anymore, but something else

As someone who’s played a sword thief for a while, spamming 2 will never win you a fight. IS doesn’t do near enough damage and is often blocked due to it now being just an initiator and emergency small Condi clear when the pressure isn’t high. Teleporting more actually decreases the pressure, something sword thief needs to upkeep in order to have a chance at winning a fight. You must be in yoloQ and n00bjoin with terrible thieves, and I doubt you’ve lost a fight to any who are actively using their IS and IR (sword 2), because you just can’t keep enough damage going to kill anything. IR is also no longer a reliable active dodge, due to its 1/4 second cast time plus reaction time.

Geez, is like you people can’t read at all. Where did I say to spam 2? Jumping in and out means you are not staying near your opponent for so long, waiting for him to hit you (you can’t risk, once IR has a casting time). Example mesmers: You jump on him and he uses Decoy. You know he is going to either summon a Phantasm, use Magic Bullet or Illusionary Leap. There’s no point on staying there, so you jump out. Once he reappears, you jump in again.

So what you’re saying is that I should spend somewhere from 33.3%-41.3% of my initiative each time I’m worried that my opponent might do something?

That’s like trying to pop Aegis every time a warrior uses Eviscerate.

Yeah nerf thief they suck they don’t belong in this game, nerf all melee. more improvement on blind condition(remove endurance no more dodge we have adapted spamable blind status on those Japanese mmo) improve AI pets they luck intelligent.

CrazyDuck.4610:

Why in the world were thieves buffed, I know people are going to say they were nerfed but that’s horse poo. They teleport around now 2x more/faster and it just makes them almost impossible to kill. I’m not talking about the crappy hot join thieves, I’m talking about the higher ranked skilled thieves who know how to play. They are overpowered 100% I might actually go roll one now just for SPVP.

you were “this” Player I chased in Pvp
didnt you know, rang means nothing …. or….. after all
l2p tactic

Creator of this topic has no idea what is he talking about. Thief was nerfed to the ground. There was tradeoff for thief class: mobility , but NO STABILITY. Since every thief is a canon it is now: get one stun – die. Now that tradeoff was destroyed. There is no mobility

Some ppl might say that there is hard to catch trait. I say it is nothin more than very weak and too random utility skill to escape stun like every 30sec.

Even though we see some thiefes running dagger/pistol decap style, i dont think it is viable coue of no survivability. All enemy team has to do is send one guy to apply pressure in smart way and thief will be waste of slot in team.

Still there is sword/dagger thief lyssa i ve been plaing for a long time. Still strong, many evades, big dps, but u get stunned you are dead. I dont think it should be that way. In comparison to warriors there is no stability or immunity. There is only silly stealth in refuge that every thief walks into is going to die.

People dont realize how huge recent patch was. It left thieves with nothing but stealth. Almost every other class has some sort of timed immunity at the disposal, but not thief. Not anymore becouse there is no mobility from sword return when locked.

Thief class is notoriously easy to kill. If they didn’t have their “teleports” they would be sitting ducks.