Guild Wars 2

20,633 health, 1281 toughness. I got hit for 15367 damage in UNDER a second. If I was an Ele with lower health I’d be dead aka one shut in UNDER a second.

So:

1.My armor is half vitality and half toughness. No tough/vit on weapons and trinkets. Glass cannony. Regardless. I thought you were not supposed to one shot a person in under a second in this game? Last I checked this isn’t a FPS.
Even with higher toughness/vitality I can’t survive two thieves doing this in under a second..let alone a class with lower base toughness/vitalit like the ele.

2.Damage by unknown in the picture. We still can’t see thieves once they come out of stealth.

3.There are ridiculous resetalthing cooldowns on thieves. Anyone fighting a pistol thief condition build can testify to that.
Can’t fight what you can’t see half the time..its almost like..hacking..

4.Thieves can travel faster than ANYTHING across the map and you can’t catch them.

5.You can finish a downed player or rez one while stealthed. Why isn’t any action taken in stealth breaking it? Its bad enough already that you can initiate an attack unseen.

I find it silly that we are talking about e-sport when these ridiculous issues are still not fixed.

How is it the thieves are still unbalanced this long into the game?

I already have two good pvpers quitting over the broken thief class mechanics saying -rightfully so- that needing this much time to fix such simple imbalances in a thief means they will take another year to get to the bunker builds or the mesmer.

So is the message that we should Roll one of the holy trinity: Mesmer, Guardian or thief or leave the game with our money? One things for sure..one year from now Eles and Engys will still get nerfed =D .

/sees warrior with low toughness, health, bull’s charge, and frenzy
/Sees him complaining about WvW in sPvP
/suspects his other weapon is a Great Sword
>_>

Mesmer = no-esport
Trebuchet = no-esport
No infrastructure = no-esport
Hard game to understand = might as well be impossible to be an e-sport

Why would you post WvW screenshots, and then talk about sPvP?

Pretty sure everyone has already realized this wont become a E-sport and learned to either play the game for fun or ignore pvp lol, and yes we know Thief burst is pretty broken but you cant really compare dmg in wvw if ur not an actual lvl 80, as stat boosts arnt the same as the real thing…Generally I have 1k+ in each stat on my real 80s then my lower lvls and a lot more hp

To XII.9401
9 hits in to you under one sec ??? He must be a Chuck Norris
And next time post all combat log,beacose i se “Bulls Charge”—>Frenzy—>100b= Thief down.

BTW: Go to spam more forum section

Dat pic is so dumb. wvw in a spvp forum, and that was clearly over 1 second since you lived with endure pain.

spvp yo. Bring a shield, swap to it to block the heartseeker spam, then smash him after he burns all his initiative. BS thief is the easiest theif for a warrior to fight. If you think that’s bad, a good condition thief will own you without getting hit once.

Healing surge is a pretty cool skill. Not to say it’s good or anything or even not bottom of the barrel of skills in the game. But it’s pretty cool.

Strange with wvwvw yea.
Well, there are several abilities in game that do too much damage, it could be backstab combo, 100 blades and perhaps several more. Sure, you can learn to deal with it, but it’s not good for an e-sport game if any profession got the ability to oneshot other players… deal with it or not it just shouldn’t be there. And they need to do something about that if not sooner at least later, if they are serious about e-sport thingie.

I may have not pvped enough but theifs only kill me that fast when I’m standing still and not paying attention. Theifs aren’t OP, they have their strengths and they have their weaknesses, I suggest you play a theif yourself to learn how to beat them.

After the recent changes thief is one of the weakest classes in sPvP. Just fight with some good teams and thieh is helpless. There is no chance against the Necro and the Guardian.

Schwahrheit.4203:

Hard game to understand = might as well be impossible to be an e-sport

i guess you are a top dota player. because this sentence is really, really really funny and stupid.

even minesweeper is difficult if u never played it .

Barring the fact that this is WvW…

1. Don’t build for a glass cannon.
2. Survive the initial burst.
3. Thief ends up running away

1. thieves are joke
2. bunkers = no esport
3. treb = no esport
4. instant res skills no esport

Hi, since your picture isn’t valid and you used ele as an example. i will link 2 pictures below.

Even though it seems stupidly OP, its rare occasions it happens and if a thief specs like this, hes completely useless after his burst.

i don’t have issues with thief’s in current state

P.s this isnt against glass cannon ele either. its more bunker ele.

afaik bunker ele are good not for their hp pool or tons of toughness but for their healing / cleansing skills. so if you burst down a ele don’t letting him use his defensive skills…it is not a good example.

i never critted something more than 5-8k to a bunker guardian or defensive warrior. and they have larger hp pool and armor

Shukran.4851:

afaik bunker ele are good not for their hp pool or tons of toughness but for their healing / cleansing skills. so if you burst down a ele don’t letting him use his defensive skills…it is not a good example.

i never critted something more than 5-8k to a bunker guardian or defensive warrior. and they have larger hp pool and armor

this is the main reason it doesnt bother me, but im just backing him up because people complained about the wvw pic. his point was thiefs can 1 shot randomly out of nowhere

edit:
that damage the thief can do, also can 1 shot the engi-mesm-ele-thief-warrior. and forces necros into plague form usually

Kylex.5962:

edit:
that damage the thief can do, also can 1 shot the engi-mesm-ele-thief-warrior. and forces necros into plague form usually

those are all classes who can be likely built as cannon glass. so burst is very effective against this kind of build.

Thieves damage is just a joke .

Lipstickxx.1043:

Thieves damage is just a joke .

That’s cause it’s WvW. Gotta really watch your step there if you’re below 80. You may as well be a rabbit or racoon if a gears lvl 80 targets you and you can’t escape.

Kylex.5962:

Hi, since your picture isn’t valid and you used ele as an example. i will link 2 pictures below.

Even though it seems stupidly OP, its rare occasions it happens and if a thief specs like this, hes completely useless after his burst.

i don’t have issues with thief’s in current state

P.s this isnt against glass cannon ele either. its more bunker ele.

Come on :P my backstab hits 9k on medium armoured targets all the times , today I got 13k crit , also I don’t find it op as it’s extremly easy to dodge if you are smart. About the usefullness , the thief after the burst can go shortbow ( while waiting for dagger CDs ) and still deliver dmg

Ygritte.1783:

Kylex.5962:

Hi, since your picture isn’t valid and you used ele as an example. i will link 2 pictures below.

Even though it seems stupidly OP, its rare occasions it happens and if a thief specs like this, hes completely useless after his burst.

i don’t have issues with thief’s in current state

P.s this isnt against glass cannon ele either. its more bunker ele.

Come on :P my backstab hits 9k on medium armoured targets all the times , today I got 13k crit , also I don’t find it op as it’s extremly easy to dodge if you are smart. About the usefullness , the thief after the burst can go shortbow ( while waiting for dagger CDs ) and still deliver dmg

yes, re-read what i said :P i think its balanced the way it is, and as i said, it rarely gets me. i was just simply providing a picture with what this guy means from pvp side, and not wvw

So I see a glass canon complaining ( regardless of SPvP or WvWvW ) about dyign to a glass canon.

Seriously maybe if you were a Bunker Guard, or Ele or a Bunker build in general and you actually had your thing time stamped showing that this all happen before you could react with Toughness and mitigation up the Kitten I would feel your pain.

BUT YOUR A GLASS canon HB warrior, so what if you have 20k health warriors have the highest Health Naked. Please don’t complain about getting Spiked when your running a spike build your self.

I get 7k+ hit by backstab with 2300 toughness ! How is this normal ?

Lipstickxx.1043:

I get 7k+ hit by backstab with 2300 toughness ! How is this normal ?

That is not the spike builds fault that is a fault in toughness. HB can hit up to 15k after it is all said and done. My bunker Guard and ele get about 75% of their health knocked away from a HB attack. That is what the build is supposed to do, why do I survive cause I have toughness and am a bunker. So you are saying that Spike builds need to be removed from the game cause the sacrifice survivability for spike damage? How is that right?

Actually , I have to agree that the problem seems to be toughness .

Yeah Spike builds do exactly what they are supposed to do, hit something and make the other player say " WTF just hit me KITTEN"

Bunkers can take a burst but not as well as they should for being bunkers, I am nto saying boost toughness a lot just a minor tweak would do. If your not a bunker build and your the standard build ( which is still viable ) you should be left with about 10 to 15% health after a spike hit you. GC should just out right die to a spike, but that is my outlook on it.

Lipstickxx.1043:

Actually , I have to agree that the problem seems to be toughness .

as much as i want to agree with that, if they fix toughness so it does less damage, this game will be ruined for good. bunker wars 2

Kylex.5962:

Lipstickxx.1043:

Actually , I have to agree that the problem seems to be toughness .

as much as i want to agree with that, if they fix toughness so it does less damage, this game will be ruined for good. bunker wars 2

>Buff Toughness
>Nerf Infinite Sustain
=Bunker Ele and Guards will die eventually if left 1v1 for >2 minutes instead of living until 3 dps or a Necro hit them.
=“OP THIEVES” fixed for lower-skilled players
=No change for burst at higher end play (everyone survives or stunbreaks it anyway…)

Jumper.9482:

Kylex.5962:

Lipstickxx.1043:

Actually , I have to agree that the problem seems to be toughness .

as much as i want to agree with that, if they fix toughness so it does less damage, this game will be ruined for good. bunker wars 2

>Buff Toughness
>Nerf Infinite Sustain
=Bunker Ele and Guards will die eventually if left 1v1 for >2 minutes instead of living until 3 dps or a Necro hit them.
=“OP THIEVES” fixed for lower-skilled players
=No change for burst at higher end play (everyone survives or stunbreaks it anyway…)

Dont buff toughness would ruin the game for to many classes that do balanced damage. A buff to toughness would just make thiefs even better because they would also get the benefit while still doing unbalanced high damage.

Simple fix is nerf thiefs damage its must be done. Stun break is not always up its on longer cooldown then thiefs burst.

Side note: Most thiefs using the terms like noobs unskilled players would be nothing if they tired to play a balanced class like Necro Eng or Ranger and lack the skill to play something that takes skill like an ele.

Xom.9264:

Side note: Most thiefs using the terms like noobs unskilled players would be nothing if they tired to play a balanced class like Necro Eng or Ranger and lack the skill to play something that takes skill like an ele.

i, as main thief, feel offended because everyone can play thief….but…
for me. it is noob unskilled when someone come on forum whining for nerf.

Its a matter of reality, I understand people enjoy getting a master killing oneshot combo, because it’s fun killing others in game. However, everyone thinking twice know that oneshotting as possibility don’t belong in a viable e-sport. A game needs to be more balanced and interesting than that, and it’s one of the major balance issues for the e-sport spirit of the game. Sure people can counter it, but it simply shouldnt be there to start with… e-sport needs to demand more from it’s players.

No E-sport because of hundred blades?

Lets be honest here a sec e-sport is for fps where your all pretty much on eqaul ground. Hundred blades while some what a pain is not trully OP putting on a class with that much base hp is another story.

to continue

portal=no esport
boon rips not working = no esport
quickness = no esport

Kylex.5962:

Hi, since your picture isn’t valid and you used ele as an example. i will link 2 pictures below.

Even though it seems stupidly OP, its rare occasions it happens and if a thief specs like this, hes completely useless after his burst.

i don’t have issues with thief’s in current state

P.s this isnt against glass cannon ele either. its more bunker ele.

Lol good thing you were wrecking that thief with your 87 damage channeling auto attack ability. Eles are so OP. nobody else can even come close to that damage on their auto attack, you had a good chance against that thief 12k damage in a sec, versus your 87 damage auto attack and 400 damage dust devil. hit eles Damage is clearly breaking this game.

Moving on, I don’t have a problem with thieves until they run loltrops and stealth build, where they are only visible when stealth wears off, then they immediately re-stealth just spamming dodging loltrops while stealth and using pistol one, then they stealth immediately again. If you find a really good thief that knows how to use stealth, you will won’t see him the whole fight, which is frustrating the 3 seconds they aren’t stealthed they just toss a dodge to cover themselves, with feline grace they can dodge almost every time they become visible to cover the 3 seconds of non stealth.

pinkglow.3429:

Its a matter of reality, I understand people enjoy getting a master killing oneshot combo, because it’s fun killing others in game. However, everyone thinking twice know that oneshotting as possibility don’t belong in a viable e-sport. A game needs to be more balanced and interesting than that, and it’s one of the major balance issues for the e-sport spirit of the game. Sure people can counter it, but it simply shouldnt be there to start with… e-sport needs to demand more from it’s players.

This post made me laugh.

Dual.8953:

/sees warrior with low toughness, health, bull’s charge, and frenzy
/Sees him complaining about WvW in sPvP
/suspects his other weapon is a Great Sword
>_>

Its sad that these are the posts of people who play thieves. At least this isn’t a L2p one.

No..my other weapon set is sword/warhorn for the number 2 sword to leap out of a zerg and number 4 warhorn to break cc and grant switftness to party members to get away.

No..frenzy was not up when I was taking that damage..I’m sorry that you think thieves deal that much damage only if someone has frenzy up.

And no..If you read my post carefully..youl notice that my armor is a mix of toughness/vitality.
Are you suggesting I go full toughness vitality as a class with the highest base toughness/vitality to survive a broken class? Should all the other class do the same as well?

/Sees imbalance >.>

Recently.1043:

Dat pic is so dumb. wvw in a spvp forum, and that was clearly over 1 second since you lived with endure pain.

spvp yo. Bring a shield, swap to it to block the heartseeker spam, then smash him after he burns all his initiative. BS thief is the easiest theif for a warrior to fight. If you think that’s bad, a good condition thief will own you without getting hit once.

1.‘Dat’ pic is not so dumb. Up to activating endure pain it was under one second. Wish I could have activated it sooner but well..after thieves break out of stealth the rest of us can’t see them..true story.

2.The discussion is not about countering this..the discussion is why should a class deal this much damage in under one second out of stealth AND remain stealthed while doing so.

I agree about the condition thief. You can’t kill what you can’t see 50% of the time =).

The spvp amulet is almost equivalent to full exotic armor/weapons and jewlery so this situation is mirrored in spvp.

The only people who think thieves are fine and everyone has to L2P are thieves..I guess Anet disagrees as evident by the backstab and pistol whip nerfs. Let me guess..were you saying ‘Dat’ was balanced before Anet balanced it?

Having someone saying their class is fine when everyone else says it is not fine kinda borders on bias..

XII.9401:

Recently.1043:

Dat pic is so dumb. wvw in a spvp forum, and that was clearly over 1 second since you lived with endure pain.

spvp yo. Bring a shield, swap to it to block the heartseeker spam, then smash him after he burns all his initiative. BS thief is the easiest theif for a warrior to fight. If you think that’s bad, a good condition thief will own you without getting hit once.

1.‘Dat’ pic is not so dumb. Up to activating endure pain it was under one second. Wish I could have activated it sooner but well..after thieves break out of stealth the rest of us can’t see them..true story.

2.The discussion is not about countering this..the discussion is why should a class deal this much damage in under one second out of stealth AND remain stealthed while doing so.

I agree about the condition thief. You can’t kill what you can’t see 50% of the time =).

The spvp amulet is almost equivalent to full exotic armor/weapons and jewlery so this situation is mirrored in spvp.

The only people who think thieves are fine and everyone has to L2P are thieves..I guess Anet disagrees as evident by the backstab and pistol whip nerfs. Let me guess..were you saying ‘Dat’ was balanced before Anet balanced it?

Having someone saying their class is fine when everyone else says it is not fine kinda borders on bias..

I play elementalist. Do I hate thieves? Yes. Do I think they are OP? Absolutely not.

Right now burst is brainless faceroll in real MMO high level play burst had to be timed perfectly with CC.

Game favors burst the other end of the spectrum is just stupid bunker abilities no middle ground = dying pvp game.

There is one thing I hate more than hard hitting attacks, there is one thing I hate more than stuns, and that is when my enemy can disappear whenever he/she wants too many times

That is the main thing I hate, when my enemies can turn invisible, and there is no way to make them come out from it. They can turn invisible too many times, too often.

I don’t think there is any fun at all meeting enemies who can turn invisible.

Thieves need to eat a massive nerf. They do way too much damage and can get out of combat trivially. It doesnt matter if they are squishy if they can disappear so easily. It’s a 2 button spec.

it takes no skill to play a thief of any spec. you have to be in serious denial if you think otherwise. thieves cause way too much stress in pvp. can they be killed? yes. but im tired of fighting against thieves outside of tpvp. and im tired of them simply leaving the fight unpunished whenever they feel like it. wvw theyre all over the place, spvp theyre all over the place.

i hope we’ll see some serious nerfs in a few days. also hope to see dozens of quality trait fixes across all profession to promote build diversity. otherwise, we aint gettin far, even with the new features.

nerva.7940:

it takes no skill to play a thief of any spec. you have to be in serious denial if you think otherwise. thieves cause way too much stress in pvp. can they be killed? yes. but im tired of fighting against thieves outside of tpvp. and im tired of them simply leaving the fight unpunished whenever they feel like it. wvw theyre all over the place, spvp theyre all over the place.

i hope we’ll see some serious nerfs in a few days. also hope to see dozens of quality trait fixes across all profession to promote build diversity. otherwise, we aint gettin far, even with the new features.

you should post some video about you playing thief in tourney. or about you being killed by thieves in tourney. i don’t know if pug tourney would be ok, but let’s deal with it

Class cannon warrior cries about WvWvW-PvP in sPvP. zzz.

TheGuy.3568:

No E-sport because of hundred blades?

Lets be honest here a sec e-sport is for fps where your all pretty much on eqaul ground. Hundred blades while some what a pain is not trully OP putting on a class with that much base hp is another story.

to continue

portal=no esport
boon rips not working = no esport
quickness = no esport

This is a very good list.

Portal is a nice ability, but perhaps more than just mesmer should have it. Maybe put it on ranger/necro/engi, spread it around while also limiting what it can do. It might be too strong with culling in wvw, so perhaps removal/redesign is more appropriate.

Boon rips need to be more prevalent, that’s the real problem with bunkers, the fact that they can cover themselves with regen/prot/aegis and just infinite sustain past a certain level of toughness

Quickness is just too big an effect for too long a cooldown. I’d say reduce the cooldown by half, and the effect by half, and see how it feels from there on. No one can complain really since it isn’t technically a nerf.

Speaking as someone who has rarely ever had a problem fighting thieves, I wouldn’t mind if they redesigned the profession entirely or even got rid of it. The stealth mechanics and burstinedd promotes cheesing in low level sPvP, making the class frustrating for new players to fight against. Often argue that there are counters and they’re totally right, but the fact that many are complaining about the mechanic should be evidence enough that they’re just not fun or interesting to fight against.

To drive this point home, look at the effect the GC thief build has on both the user and the opponent. The most basic of builds provides 2 options for the thieves: burst enemy down or run away. Similarly the one defending against them has their options severely reduced due to the initial burst. A class or spec that reduces the number of options for the both user and the opponent needs some redesigning because it not only makes the game less engaging for the opponent but also for the user

Now that we’re on the subject, burst specs need some rethinking in general because they have similar effects on player choices.

nerva.7940:

it takes no skill to play a thief of any spec.

Once you join good team you will see how wrong you were , thief is probably the class with highest skill cap atm due to meta forcing the thief player to play on extremly squishy builds and still be surivable. Also thief is one of the most crucial roles in the party , you don’t only need to comitt to teamfights but also pick a perfect moment to escape from them and push for the close point of your enemy. To be fair every class takes skill to play , but thief is definitly the high skill cap one due to the low hp pool , you need to be smart to play one.

ANet just has to rethink the role of the Thief for sPvP and I see the following options that could work:

- Use Thief as a fast and hard to catch roamer: Drastically decrease DMG-output, but make up for it (if even necessary) bymaking Infiltrators Arrow cheaper and make Shadowstep (and Shadow Trap) have a much longer Range and Duration, comparable to that of a Portal. This way, Thief would be the Movement-King and very hard to kill, but he wouldn’t deal IMBA-DPS.

- Use him as a Glass-cannon Burst-Char: Keep DMG as it is now, but totally rewamp the stealth-mechanic, so he isn’t as hard to kill… Maybe make it that he can’t get into stealth unless he hasn’t received DMG for a few seconds or make it that he is revealed instantly on receiving DMG (yes, also ticks from Conditions would trigger the reveal, maybe you could balance it by only making certain conditions reveal him, like poison or sth).

Both would fit well into the Lore of Thiefs and both could have viable roles in PvP, but the Thief wouldn’t be as imbalanced and he would have a clearer role, unlike now, where he excells at pretty much everything.

@Ygritte: There is no skill involved with playing Backstab-Thief. You don’t need any knowledge of the MU’s, you don’t need good aim and you don’t need good positioning… I can and have switched to Thief on occasion from Ele, even in Paid Tournaments and it was ridiculous how useful I was, even though I have like under 100 games in total as a Thief… If you just play Backstab-Thief, you can literally play in a top-guild and have 1000+ QP’s and still be pretty bad at the game. You say it’s hard to play cuz of the low life-pool? Well, play a glass-cannon without 100 Shadowsteps, Stunbreakers and perma-invis and the second-best downed-mode in the game (only falling short to Ele and with the +50% DPS in downed-mode, it’s even by far the best one) and see how “glassy” your Thief really is…

Here is where I, as Ex-HB warrior, see the main difference between Burst Thieves and Burst Warriors:

Burst Warrior: 1 Shot Pony Trick: Miss and Die, no escape options, no defense, severe lack of condition removal, high cooldowns.

Reason I abandoned this build a long long time ago, works fine for wvw, but sPvP its only good for random quick kill’s in a pug game really.

Burst Thieves: bad defenses toughness wise, but, enough utility skills to be utilised for escape purposes, like refuge, a heal that cloaks, and cloak and dagger, no way of knocking them out of stealth, honestly, they need to fix this. And yes, I did play a thief as main before, abandoned that, bacause it was simply BORING and EASY, facerolling my keyboard racking up kills against anything other then mass bunker ele or gaurdian.

Don;t get me wrong, in tPvP you don;t see the loltrops thieves much, because they contribute 0 to the whole teamfights and team effort.

I bare in mind the following: NEW PLAYERS!

I want new players to come to PvP, casual or serious I don;t care, I want diversity to play against, Team spirit, players helping other players, more community in PvP, less QQ in PvP.

Of Course there will always be those trolling kitten that laugh and mock people with faceroll builds, big kittening deal, they are the true losers, If i defend a point succesfully, or stall 3 loltrops thieves for 1-2 minutes before falling face down. that buys my team 1-2 minutes of unchallenged point captures.

Also, I don;t care IF they nerve warriors, but seems to me, for warrior, they build glass cannon and get a kill or die, thief try and kill, or stealth and walk away, it shoud be like the warrior more, if you go full offense, no defenses or escapes will save you, you die if you fail it, period.

@PowerBottom.5796 – Thieves are infact hard to play. Everything you said is actually reversed in real life.

‘you don’t need good aim and you don’t need good positioning’ Are you high? How would you get hit if they didn’t position themselves properly? Do you usually stand in one place like mobs in PvE? Since back stab thieves are the problem here, use some sort of block when they go invi. How hard is it?