pls don’t ever compare Thief’s short bow to ranger’s shortbow. and yea ranger is more effective @ range distance compare to thief. u know why? cuz they’re RANGERS!
Please don’t compare the thief shortbow to a ranger shortbow lol
Thief shortbow does WAY more damage and bounces between targets .. I’d give 300 range for that.. Also the bleed for rangers shortbow is if your behind or on your side of your target.. Who fights with their back turned besides nade engys lol
Do complain more and shortbow is not your only diffence you got stealth and blind deal
Tell me a ranger who doesn’t use sigil of earth on SB. Auto-attacks BLEED, and it stacks FAST. The ranger’s SB shoots easily 2x as fast as a thief’s.
Yea you shouldn’t compare the thief SB to Ranger’s SB, because the Ranger’s SB is mindless auto-attacking = win.
I would say that most rangers dont use sigil of earth, because they run the shaman amulet, so their crit chance is 9%…… and the dmg from shortbow is pretty abyssmal in a bunker build, its more of a utility for poison, and evade and an interrupt. NOT mindless autoattacking. And looking at ur signature it’s somewhat obvious to me that ur an fotm rider, and ur a little behind sore about both ur op classes taking a hit this patch.
That being said, I believe that they should at least increase the projectile speed to put it on a level playing field with other bow attacks.
I’m a fotm rider? I’ve been playing a thief since beta and am one of the only few thieves still around tpvp…
I guess your sense for the obvious is quite useless.
I don’t really think it’s that noticeable. People can strage, so what, you can spam it at absolutely no cost. It was nicer that when they were heat seeking its not game breaking that they aren’t.
The point is – if they are going to do this to a Thief, they need to do this across the board for all ranged weapons’ autoattack. Otherwise it’s simply unfair.
Shortbow now works like other bows in the game. Ranger attacks aren’t homing and if you played a ranger you’d know this. You’d also know that they had the exact same problem 4 months ago and the solution to this was to increase projectile speed for their bows.
That is what you should be asking for… the projectile speed to be increased to match that of all other bows in the game. I’m honestly surprised ANet didn’t do this to begin with.
And if they did, and the projectile speed does match those of the Ranger, well then it’s balanced.
I haven’t logged on to play my thief so I dont know how it is.
^Right, all I’m asking for is balance. I don’t care what they need to do, if they need to increase projectile speed or whatever they need to do…it’s all about balance.
Try logging into your thief. Have a friend stand at around 400-600r and just start strafing left and right. Your #1 will NOT hit.
Mesmer’s GS #1 should be treated the same way as well, because its a channeled, homing skill at 1200r.
Mesmer’s GS1 does crap damage depending on distance, while your bow does the same damage regardless of distance. Your targets also don’t need to be lined up unlike mesmer beam to aoe.
Stop whining about arguably one of the best weapons in game. If this were a complaint about venoms or swords or ambush trap or needle trap, then maybe people wouldn’t be laughing at you.
P.S. Mesmer GS is absolutely terrible defensively, unlike your shortbow #3 spam, and the mesmer greatsword boasts no mobility and has 2 wimpy skills (mindstab and mirrored blade) while your shortbow has every single ability be useful, with maybe the weak link being choking gas but still miles away better as a blasting field for weakness that also pulses poison.
pls don’t ever compare Thief’s short bow to ranger’s shortbow. and yea ranger is more effective @ range distance compare to thief. u know why? cuz they’re RANGERS!
Shortbow spammable hits for jack kitten at a range.
You have to pull off flanking (impossible for your playing to have anything to do with it at a 900 range) or just learn to live with your 200-300 dmg ticks…
Stop whining about arguably one of the best weapons in game. If this were a complaint about venoms or swords or ambush trap or needle trap, then maybe people wouldn’t be laughing at you.
Mesmer’s GS1 does crap damage depending on distance, while your bow does the same damage regardless of distance. Your targets also don’t need to be lined up unlike mesmer beam to aoe.
Stop whining about arguably one of the best weapons in game. If this were a complaint about venoms or swords or ambush trap or needle trap, then maybe people wouldn’t be laughing at you.
P.S. Mesmer GS is absolutely terrible defensively, unlike your shortbow #3 spam, and the mesmer greatsword boasts no mobility and has 2 wimpy skills (mindstab and mirrored blade) while your shortbow has every single ability be useful, with maybe the weak link being choking gas but still miles away better as a blasting field for weakness that also pulses poison.
lol laughing @ me? you are a funny guy.
I stopped reading when you went into depth about a the GS. This entire thread has been about the #1 skill of any ranged weapon…I’m not talking about anything else. You just totally went off on a tangent…
Amaterasu,
Old thief shortbow attacks would travel in a straight line and then completely hook at a very stupid angle not possible in any universe and hit its target….AND THEN hit two other people. The change to remove that was warranted.
Currently the projectile is too slow. They will increase it like they have for every other weapon. Chillax a little.
More whining in this one post [about one weapon] than I’ve seen in the entire engi forums since beta :-P
\-\ Poquito (Engineer) /-/ Tarnished Coast
Not Sure If Serious [BZNZ] ||| Cynical [CYN]
^Thank you for giving me a description of how the shortbow worked. Much appreciated.
Now let me describe to you how the other shortbow in the game works, since you only play the easy mode classes. Ranger shortbow at the same power as thief hits for roughly 40% of the thief shortbow dmg. Add in that it hits ONE TARGET, and is prone to being strafed (as much as you would love to call it homing it most certainly is not). Given these factors, i would say that the thief shortbow effective range right now is about 500 (based on my personal experience with it thus far) which is about 55% max range of the thief shortbow and 42% max range of ranger shortbow. The damage discrepancy, the bouncing effect of the thief sb and rate of fire differences basically even out as the ranger shortbow shoots about 1.5 times as fast as the thief (i think 2x might be pushing it, but close). In my opinion it doesnt get much more balanced than this when looking JUST at the autoattacks.
This doesnt even begin to scratch the surface of the other 4 skills, in which a comparrison is not likely needed to anyone with a brain stem.
Human Warrior, Ranger and dedicated Scout of Yaks bend
The Pinnacle of Resposibility [Mom]
Amaterasu,
Old thief shortbow attacks would travel in a straight line and then completely hook at a very stupid angle not possible in any universe and hit its target….AND THEN hit two other people. The change to remove that was warranted.
Currently the projectile is too slow. They will increase it like they have for every other weapon. Chillax a little.
More whining in this one post [about one weapon] than I’ve seen in the entire engi forums since beta :-P
Unfortunately we’ve learned from our friends the Rangers that unless we DO make a big stink in threads like this, we WON’T get that projectile speed fix Trick Shot desperately needs.
nothing against thiefs, but this is how ALL projectiles work, its good it now affects thiefs too :P
Im sorry wot?
Yes Ele’s Staff air 1 doesn’t home oh wait yes it does.
Mesmer staff 1….homes.
Shortbow 1, velocity is so fast it doesn’t matter literally to the point that it can track in stealth and hit people even if they quickly displace location, the displacement hit is also true for all gun auto attacks.
Longbow 1’s velocity is also fast enough that strafing doesn’t work until a certain distance is reached. That’s true for thiefs as well, but atm it is unless someone can find otherwise, the most strafeable ranged weapon.
Oddly enough it barely differs from the Rangers Ricochet, but that is left seemingly fine as well and does not have the same hit issues. Again making your “all” statemen false.
Now let me describe to you how the other shortbow in the game works, since you only play the easy mode classes. Ranger shortbow at the same power as thief hits for roughly 40% of the thief shortbow dmg. Add in that it hits ONE TARGET, and is prone to being strafed (as much as you would love to call it homing it most certainly is not). Given these factors, i would say that the thief shortbow effective range right now is about 500 (based on my personal experience with it thus far) which is about 55% max range of the thief shortbow and 42% max range of ranger shortbow. The damage discrepancy, the bouncing effect of the thief sb and rate of fire differences basically even out as the ranger shortbow shoots about 1.5 times as fast as the thief (i think 2x might be pushing it, but close). In my opinion it doesnt get much more balanced than this when looking JUST at the autoattacks.
Ranger’s shortbow deals less damage, because they can have a bird,cat or dog simultaneously smashing you in the face. Meanwhile they’re stacking bleeds and because of the hybrid nature of their weapon see more effect from Might for the benefit of their weapons damage. Que in faster activation and velocity and it’s not even a constant.
However forget the ranger shortbow.
Look at their Axe.
nothing against thiefs, but this is how ALL projectiles work, its good it now affects thiefs too :P
Im sorry wot?
Yes Ele’s Staff air 1 doesn’t home oh wait yes it does.
Mesmer staff 1….homes.
Shortbow 1, velocity is so fast it doesn’t matter literally to the point that it can track in stealth and hit people even if they quickly displace location, the displacement hit is also true for all gun auto attacks.
Longbow 1’s velocity is also fast enough that strafing doesn’t work until a certain distance is reached. That’s true for thiefs as well, but atm it is unless someone can find otherwise, the most strafeable ranged weapon.
Oddly enough it barely differs from the Rangers Ricochet, but that is left seemingly fine as well and does not have the same hit issues. Again making your “all” statemen false.
Now let me describe to you how the other shortbow in the game works, since you only play the easy mode classes. Ranger shortbow at the same power as thief hits for roughly 40% of the thief shortbow dmg. Add in that it hits ONE TARGET, and is prone to being strafed (as much as you would love to call it homing it most certainly is not). Given these factors, i would say that the thief shortbow effective range right now is about 500 (based on my personal experience with it thus far) which is about 55% max range of the thief shortbow and 42% max range of ranger shortbow. The damage discrepancy, the bouncing effect of the thief sb and rate of fire differences basically even out as the ranger shortbow shoots about 1.5 times as fast as the thief (i think 2x might be pushing it, but close). In my opinion it doesnt get much more balanced than this when looking JUST at the autoattacks.
Ranger’s shortbow deals less damage, because they can have a bird,cat or dog simultaneously smashing you in the face. Meanwhile they’re stacking bleeds and because of the hybrid nature of their weapon see more effect from Might for the benefit of their weapons damage. Que in faster activation and velocity and it’s not even a constant.
However forget the ranger shortbow.
Look at their Axe.
…Because rangers have so much access to might? and the bleeds against anyone who knows ur there, NEVER get above 3 stacks without a setup of some kind from CC.
Ranger Axe is almost comparable to the thief shortbow because it acts exactly the same, except oh yeah 1/3 to 1/2 the damage…
EDIT: oh yeah and you cant reliably count on pet damage, as they STILL dont do well with a moving target, aka everyone in pvp of any kind.
Human Warrior, Ranger and dedicated Scout of Yaks bend
The Pinnacle of Resposibility [Mom]
nothing against thiefs, but this is how ALL projectiles work, its good it now affects thiefs too :P
True datt! ^^’
I play a lot of Ranger and even Longbow-Warriors and when I was testing out some Thief-builds, I didn’t even notice anything at all…
Besides, the Shortbow is so incredibly strong and always offers the Thief an extremely potent range-weapon, that the nerf definitely won’t make either Thiefs nor their Shortbow useless. It’s a nerf for sure, but it’s a reasonable one.
Will anet ever stop? Their isn’t 1 thief build u can try that hasn’t been nerfed in some way.
That would be true even if the only thing nerfed was Trick-Shot, because literally every competetive Build uses the Shortbow…. This kinda says sth. about how strong the Shortbow actually is. ^^’
Next up is to remove the homing from heartseeker, and make them aim it.
I’d actually strongly support that…. it’s sooooooooo easy to land heartseeker…. Compare this to how hard it is to land Melee-Attacks with for example D/D-Ele. It would also stop mindless spamming…. They could even make the range on the leap a bit bigger, if the enemy could at least kite it a bit better.
Ranger Axe is almost comparable to the thief shortbow because it acts exactly the same, except oh yeah 1/3 to 1/2 the damage…
is there any reason for this? i always though my staff ele had lower dmg because its ranged and thus must have lower dmg than melee builds… but thief? he have 900-1200 range with shortbow and still outdmg other ranged builds without any problems and even some melee builds of other profs i never realized why…
I played with it some last night and I don’t know what the issue is.
It should never have been able to home just like no other bow homes.
The projectile speed is the same as the Ranger’s shortbow and longbow, it’s just the rate of fire is slow like the longbows.
The bouncing attacks can’t miss.
The damage is the same.
Now with luck they’ll change the other attacks that were previously mentioned like staff skills for various classes so long as their projectile speed is increased to match.
Will anet ever stop? Their isn’t 1 thief build u can try that hasn’t been nerfed in some way.
That would be true even if the only thing nerfed was Trick-Shot, because literally every competetive Build uses the Shortbow…. This kinda says sth. about how strong the Shortbow actually is. ^^’
Nope, this only say that we do NOT have any other viable ranged option !
Please for the sake of god reroll a thief, and equip P/P and then come back to us and report about your expirience ….
Will anet ever stop? Their isn’t 1 thief build u can try that hasn’t been nerfed in some way.
That would be true even if the only thing nerfed was Trick-Shot, because literally every competetive Build uses the Shortbow…. This kinda says sth. about how strong the Shortbow actually is. ^^’
Nope, this only say that we do NOT have any other viable ranged option !
Please for the sake of god reroll a thief, and equip P/P and then come back to us and report about your expirience ….
That is the whole point there. To play a P/P you need to build around it to make it work. On the other hand, SB needs almost nothing from you for you to take a full advantage from it. It is the same if you want to play BackStab you have to build around it to make it work.
If SB is not as strong as people suggested then I think you guys were noobs all this time because you were using it all this time for a reason that no other sets in the entire game can give you other than THIS Shortbow.
I don’t get it. I saw people complaining left and right about chain heartseekers. I saw people complain about Mug+CnD+Backstab. I saw people complaining about permastealth. But never once did I see anyone complain about shortbow being OP. In fact, I saw quite a bit of “shortbow is fine and balanced, L2P.” So why was this change implemented.
I’m extremely frustrated by this change, if only because it DESTROYS my current build, which relied heavily on kiting with venoms and shortbow’s raw mobility while I slowly whittle my enemies down with trick shot.
To anyone that claims thief SB was OP, where were you before this patch? Shortbow’s autoattack damage is good against rangers/their pets, but is average against anything else. It was easy to keep casting, but not spectacular damagewise.
All I have left to try now is S/D and P/P… and we know how terrific P/P is.
i never realized why…