Guild Wars 2

Is there anything you can do to help thieves in SPVP? They don’t do as much sustained damage and they have almost no staying power and limited mobility. I laugh every time I see a thief on my time, each match is starting to get like this.

Most thieves can’t even hurt me. Most of there damage is a total joke and they are annoying and just warp in and out of the battle.

((There was another thief in the match, but he pretty much left.))

It has gotten to the point where I don’t even kill them, its better to leave them half dead so they respawn, its not like they have any cool-downs or anything or help the team.

the problem is most of the thieves you face are just bad players who dont know what to do when their burst fails.. simply escaping the fight doesnt help them or their team at all

Daecollo.9578:

Most thieves can’t even hurt me. Most of there damage is a total joke and they are annoying and just warp in and out of the battle.

You just faced bad players. There isn’t more to say about it.

Destiny.6738:

Daecollo.9578:

Most thieves can’t even hurt me. Most of there damage is a total joke and they are annoying and just warp in and out of the battle.

You just faced bad players. There isn’t more to say about it.

Pretty much this. I’ve faced plenty of fantastic thieves.

Quite funny how many thieves out there who don’t use the shortbow for anything else than the teleport and evading :s. it’s so stronk!

lol…………

Limited mobility? Not sure if trolling. Thieves are likely to be the most mobile class in almost any PvP map w/ all the shortcuts they can take using shadow steps. The only other class to even rival that mobility is ele.

One of the thieves you faced was rank 3, so he obviously hadn’t played more than a couple of matches. The other one was probably just terrible. I don’t ever remember scoring a 0 in any match ever as a thief, and on the contrary place among the top players almost every match of hotjoin I play.

Play tournies if you want to face thieves that are genuinely good. You shouldn’t draw conclusions playing a few bads in hotjoin.

Ritt.3069:

Limited mobility? Not sure if trolling. Thieves are likely to be the most mobile class in almost any PvP map w/ all the shortcuts they can take using shadow steps. The only other class to even rival that mobility is ele.

One of the thieves you faced was rank 3, so he obviously hadn’t played more than a couple of matches. The other one was probably just terrible. I don’t ever remember scoring a 0 in any match ever as a thief, and on the contrary place among the top players almost every match of hotjoin I play.

Play tournies if you want to face thieves that are genuinely good. You shouldn’t draw conclusions playing a few bads in hotjoin.

Qouted for epic.

@ the OP , i smell thief ? lol

The problem is the skill level of certain thieves. When I solo queue and i get multiple thieves on my team I lose like 90% of the time. A good thief is an asset. A bad one is the most worthless thing in the world that dies as soon as it gets farted on.

Every thief rails against these silly personal anecdotes /w screenshot when they’re used to “point out how OP thieves are” with some giant backstab crit. The blade cuts both ways – this personal experience does little to prove “how bad thieves are”. While I’d love alot more spec diversity on my thief, they currently have at least 2 TPvP effective builds – they’re not the best in game, but they work enough to be a valuable member of the team.

2 Viable specs is what most classes boast at the moment – sure, thieves could be better, but at least we’re not warriors.

evilapprentice.6379:

Every thief rails against these silly personal anecdotes /w screenshot when they’re used to “point out how OP thieves are” with some giant backstab crit. The blade cuts both ways – this personal experience does little to prove “how bad thieves are”. While I’d love alot more spec diversity on my thief, they currently have at least 2 TPvP effective builds – they’re not the best in game, but they work enough to be a valuable member of the team.

2 Viable specs is what most classes boast at the moment – sure, thieves could be better, but at least we’re not warriors.

there is only 1 viable build for thieves…. just to say.

God, you can find anything on the forums.

Kultas Sunstrider.9218:

evilapprentice.6379:

Every thief rails against these silly personal anecdotes /w screenshot when they’re used to “point out how OP thieves are” with some giant backstab crit. The blade cuts both ways – this personal experience does little to prove “how bad thieves are”. While I’d love alot more spec diversity on my thief, they currently have at least 2 TPvP effective builds – they’re not the best in game, but they work enough to be a valuable member of the team.

2 Viable specs is what most classes boast at the moment – sure, thieves could be better, but at least we’re not warriors.

there is only 1 viable build for thieves…. just to say.

Venom Share
Burst variations (generally considered 1 spec).

This is for tpvp only. Outside of that, this conversation is not intended.

in tpvp – thiefs are completely and utterly weak, unless their teammates are great. Period. Only the warrior has more issues. It has only one viable build – GC burst.

This class can not assault a point against a bunker 1v1.

This class should not be capping a point unless potentially a back cap ninja..but at moderate to high levels of tpvp..that doesn’t exist.

This class has to engage an enemy….that is already engaged… to eliminate them. This class should not attempt to stomp in a team fight environment. Not because black powder isnt awesome for stomping (it is)… but because the thief is so completely frail that the 3 seconds attempting to stomp will likely end up in you being dead.

Bottom line – if your teammates suck…if they die instantly in an engagement… you as a thief will be totally worthless and bring nothing to the match. You absolutely must be carried by your teammates and if they can carry you… you are an unbelievable offensive weapon. If they can’t carry you… you will bring nothing to help the match.

imho.

In this vein..they are extremely weak. The class requires its teammates to be good and carry in order to realize its potential.

When you assess the other classes (excluding warrior)… their contribution to the team is their own…and not dependent on the other team members. A bunker guard or trap ranger does not rely on his teammates to bunk or trap a point (sure they can’t do it forever and do require teammates to assist but in general all else equal…they provide their contribution independent of the teammates assist). The ele obviously needs no reliance to do… everything. The hgh engy and necro dish incredible condi burst dmg to assault bunkers and are valuable on their own right. The mesmer brings utility to the group and can assault bunkers as well.

mursie.3681:

This is for tpvp only. Outside of that, this conversation is not intended.

in tpvp – thiefs are completely and utterly weak, unless their teammates are great. Period. Only the warrior has more issues. It has only one viable build – GC burst.

This class can not assault a point against a bunker 1v1.

This class should not be capping a point unless potentially a back cap ninja..but at moderate to high levels of tpvp..that doesn’t exist.

This class has to engage an enemy….that is already engaged… to eliminate them. This class should not attempt to stomp in a team fight environment. Not because black powder isnt awesome for stomping (it is)… but because the thief is so completely frail that the 3 seconds attempting to stomp will likely end up in you being dead.

Bottom line – if your teammates suck…if they die instantly in an engagement… you as a thief will be totally worthless and bring nothing to the match. You absolutely must be carried by your teammates and if they can carry you… you are an unbelievable offensive weapon. If they can’t carry you… you will bring nothing to help the match.

imho.

In this vein..they are extremely weak. The class requires its teammates to be good and carry in order to realize its potential.

I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with your assessment, just adding a clarification – if properly supported, a theif is an amazing offensive weapon, the class isn’t being carried…its being supported.

Carrying implies that the thief contributes nothing or next to nothing, when you yourself are saying that properly supported they’re a strong offensive asset.

evilapprentice.6379:

mursie.3681:

This is for tpvp only. Outside of that, this conversation is not intended.

in tpvp – thiefs are completely and utterly weak, unless their teammates are great. Period. Only the warrior has more issues. It has only one viable build – GC burst.

This class can not assault a point against a bunker 1v1.

This class should not be capping a point unless potentially a back cap ninja..but at moderate to high levels of tpvp..that doesn’t exist.

This class has to engage an enemy….that is already engaged… to eliminate them. This class should not attempt to stomp in a team fight environment. Not because black powder isnt awesome for stomping (it is)… but because the thief is so completely frail that the 3 seconds attempting to stomp will likely end up in you being dead.

Bottom line – if your teammates suck…if they die instantly in an engagement… you as a thief will be totally worthless and bring nothing to the match. You absolutely must be carried by your teammates and if they can carry you… you are an unbelievable offensive weapon. If they can’t carry you… you will bring nothing to help the match.

imho.

In this vein..they are extremely weak. The class requires its teammates to be good and carry in order to realize its potential.

I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with your assessment, just adding a clarification – if properly supported, a theif is an amazing offensive weapon, the class isn’t being carried…its being supported.

Carrying implies that the thief contributes nothing or next to nothing, when you yourself are saying that properly supported they’re a strong offensive asset.

I think it’s semantics but I will try to demonstrate why. If the thief is “not” properly “supported”… they really can’t do anything in the match. They can’t sustain any dmg fights…they can’t bunk…. they can’t cap. They are worthless. Thus, in order to not be worthless… they must be “supported”. If you exchange the word “support” with the word “carry”… I do not believe the message I just wrote changes its meaning whatsoever.

mursie.3681:

When you assess the other classes (excluding warrior)… their contribution to the team is their own…and not dependent on the other team members. A bunker guard or trap ranger does not rely on his teammates to bunk or trap a point (sure they can’t do it forever and do require teammates to assist but in general all else equal…they provide their contribution independent of the teammates assist). The ele obviously needs no reliance to do… everything. The hgh engy and necro dish incredible condi burst dmg to assault bunkers and are valuable on their own right. The mesmer brings utility to the group and can assault bunkers as well.

And a Thief job , like a 4-kit roamer-glass Engineers is to find and kill over and over again , the same weakest enemy
20 kills = 100 points to ur team and 80% of the time ensure that there are 4 enemies vs 5 of ur friends

thiefs really have only 1 viable build, though ive seen a few thiefs make other specs work….it always seem a bit less than ideal and could have been a function done better by someone else.

They are not spectacular but a good thief is still solid. I wouldn’t care if they got a mild buff, especially to there off weapon set. haste nerf really hurt pistol whip.

Trust me if a good thief wanted to, he can destroy anyone except bunker ele/guard/engie. The question is, is the time put in worth it.

Killthehealersffs.8940:

mursie.3681:

When you assess the other classes (excluding warrior)… their contribution to the team is their own…and not dependent on the other team members. A bunker guard or trap ranger does not rely on his teammates to bunk or trap a point (sure they can’t do it forever and do require teammates to assist but in general all else equal…they provide their contribution independent of the teammates assist). The ele obviously needs no reliance to do… everything. The hgh engy and necro dish incredible condi burst dmg to assault bunkers and are valuable on their own right. The mesmer brings utility to the group and can assault bunkers as well.

And a Thief job , like a 4-kit roamer-glass Engineers is to find and kill over and over again , the same weakest enemy
20 kills = 100 points to ur team and 80% of the time ensure that there are 4 enemies vs 5 of ur friends

Unfortunately in my case, there was no “Weakest Enemy.” all of us were pretty good. I pretty much tanked ALL three thieves spamming heartseeker on me. Killed all three of them.

Thieves are weak as crap in SPVP, even the stealth ones can’t do enough damage to kill me when I just AOE the ground.

Bro, add me and fight me on your necro. Thieves are weak right now but mostly at capturing bases…
Also, there is the idea of hard countering. If you are up against a bleed thief, you are obv At an advantage. Some builds are esp. Good against others. Things are mind of meant that way.

the majority of the people who play thieves just plain suck. i currently play two builds in spvp and they both have very high survivability and damage. it normally takes multiple opponents to take me down, unless they’re experienced

Daecollo.9578:

Killthehealersffs.8940:

mursie.3681:

When you assess the other classes (excluding warrior)… their contribution to the team is their own…and not dependent on the other team members. A bunker guard or trap ranger does not rely on his teammates to bunk or trap a point (sure they can’t do it forever and do require teammates to assist but in general all else equal…they provide their contribution independent of the teammates assist). The ele obviously needs no reliance to do… everything. The hgh engy and necro dish incredible condi burst dmg to assault bunkers and are valuable on their own right. The mesmer brings utility to the group and can assault bunkers as well.

And a Thief job , like a 4-kit roamer-glass Engineers is to find and kill over and over again , the same weakest enemy
20 kills = 100 points to ur team and 80% of the time ensure that there are 4 enemies vs 5 of ur friends

Unfortunately in my case, there was no “Weakest Enemy.” all of us were pretty good. I pretty much tanked ALL three thieves spamming heartseeker on me. Killed all three of them.

Thieves are weak as crap in SPVP, even the stealth ones can’t do enough damage to kill me when I just AOE the ground.

well, anyone can do this, it’s called dodge roll. if they were spamming heartseeker, you were playing baddies

Jakeism.8136:

the majority of the people who play thieves just plain suck. i currently play two builds in spvp and they both have very high survivability and damage. it normally takes multiple opponents to take me down, unless they’re experienced

What class are you? What build do you run?

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

the majority of the people who play thieves just plain suck. i currently play two builds in spvp and they both have very high survivability and damage. it normally takes multiple opponents to take me down, unless they’re experienced

What class are you? What build do you run?

thief of course.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/PVP-bunker-dodger-build-New-Vids-Part3/first

Jakeism.8136:

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

the majority of the people who play thieves just plain suck. i currently play two builds in spvp and they both have very high survivability and damage. it normally takes multiple opponents to take me down, unless they’re experienced

What class are you? What build do you run?

thief of course.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/PVP-bunker-dodger-build-New-Vids-Part3/first

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ecl8d0TQGQ

That is a WvWvW video, how do you kill anyone in SPVP. Your stealthed 90% of the time. How do you deal with trying to hold points?

That isn’t exactly bunker, my necromancer has a lot of chill, that means your heartseeker will not be able to go back and fourth like such in the video. In SPVP Fights are more in closed space areas too rather then large open places, I would just place down marks where your combo field is since I know you must be in it.

My build has a lot of burst healing, if I see a heartspammer I usually heal up when he uses it, a heartseeker over 75% health does less damage then most autoattacks do.

The skillcap between SPvPers compared to WvWvWers if very high.

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

the majority of the people who play thieves just plain suck. i currently play two builds in spvp and they both have very high survivability and damage. it normally takes multiple opponents to take me down, unless they’re experienced

What class are you? What build do you run?

thief of course.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/PVP-bunker-dodger-build-New-Vids-Part3/first

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ecl8d0TQGQ

That is a WvWvW video, how do you kill anyone in SPVP. Your stealthed 90% of the time. How do you deal with trying to hold points?

No this vid is of tpvp/ spvp… He can hold points because He doesn’t rely on stealth. But, this is a build that may get hard countered by ele, guards, and esp necro.
Click on his link.

What in the world are you talking about? If he’s running this build his dmg will not use heart seekers. Learn more about thieves pls

Raptured.9307:

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

the majority of the people who play thieves just plain suck. i currently play two builds in spvp and they both have very high survivability and damage. it normally takes multiple opponents to take me down, unless they’re experienced

What class are you? What build do you run?

thief of course.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/PVP-bunker-dodger-build-New-Vids-Part3/first

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ecl8d0TQGQ

That is a WvWvW video, how do you kill anyone in SPVP. Your stealthed 90% of the time. How do you deal with trying to hold points?

No this vid is of tpvp/ spvp… He can hold points because He doesn’t rely on stealth. But, this is a build that may get hard countered by ele, guards, and esp necro.
Click on his link.

What in the world are you talking about? If he’s running this build his dmg will not use heart seekers. Learn more about thieves pls

WvW Thief, Dagger/Pistol: “Slayer” build (Perma-stealth Roaming)
Nice video!
What does this have to do with SPVP?

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

the majority of the people who play thieves just plain suck. i currently play two builds in spvp and they both have very high survivability and damage. it normally takes multiple opponents to take me down, unless they’re experienced

What class are you? What build do you run?

thief of course.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/PVP-bunker-dodger-build-New-Vids-Part3/first

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ecl8d0TQGQ

That is a WvWvW video, how do you kill anyone in SPVP. Your stealthed 90% of the time. How do you deal with trying to hold points?

That isn’t exactly bunker, my necromancer has a lot of chill, that means your heartseeker will not be able to go back and fourth like such in the video. In SPVP Fights are more in closed space areas too rather then large open places, I would just place down marks where your combo field is since I know you must be in it.

dont be so quick to dismiss it. there’s no point of me trying to convince you that it’s viable in spvp, it’s best to see it in action

Daecollo.9578:

Raptured.9307:

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

the majority of the people who play thieves just plain suck. i currently play two builds in spvp and they both have very high survivability and damage. it normally takes multiple opponents to take me down, unless they’re experienced

What class are you? What build do you run?

thief of course.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/PVP-bunker-dodger-build-New-Vids-Part3/first

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ecl8d0TQGQ

That is a WvWvW video, how do you kill anyone in SPVP. Your stealthed 90% of the time. How do you deal with trying to hold points?

No this vid is of tpvp/ spvp… He can hold points because He doesn’t rely on stealth. But, this is a build that may get hard countered by ele, guards, and esp necro.
Click on his link.

What in the world are you talking about? If he’s running this build his dmg will not use heart seekers. Learn more about thieves pls

WvW Thief, Dagger/Pistol: “Slayer” build (Perma-stealth Roaming)
Nice video!
What does this have to do with SPVP?

Ah if you are talking about his wvw video that is pretty much the build I run for spvp. It is even more effective for spvp (I runs similar one). Does crazy damage and is highly survivable. I’m surprised it isn’t nerfed, as it is the terror of hot joins.

Raptured.9307:

Daecollo.9578:

Raptured.9307:

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

the majority of the people who play thieves just plain suck. i currently play two builds in spvp and they both have very high survivability and damage. it normally takes multiple opponents to take me down, unless they’re experienced

What class are you? What build do you run?

thief of course.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/PVP-bunker-dodger-build-New-Vids-Part3/first

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ecl8d0TQGQ

That is a WvWvW video, how do you kill anyone in SPVP. Your stealthed 90% of the time. How do you deal with trying to hold points?

No this vid is of tpvp/ spvp… He can hold points because He doesn’t rely on stealth. But, this is a build that may get hard countered by ele, guards, and esp necro.
Click on his link.

What in the world are you talking about? If he’s running this build his dmg will not use heart seekers. Learn more about thieves pls

WvW Thief, Dagger/Pistol: “Slayer” build (Perma-stealth Roaming)
Nice video!
What does this have to do with SPVP?

Ah if you are talking about his wvw video that is pretty much the build I run for spvp. It is even more effective for spvp. Does damage and is highly survivable.

Why is that the first video you linked to me if you didn’t want me to see it?

The death blossom thief has one major weakness. Necromancers. I can pretty much transfer all my conditions to you over and over and constantly apply chill and weakness on you. That brings your dodging down 50% and chill makes death blossom almost not hit because it slows it down. I can also fear you before you can even caltrops.

Also, if you fight me with that spec, you will probably kill yourself a lot faster then I will kill you. :/

Daecollo.9578:

Raptured.9307:

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

the majority of the people who play thieves just plain suck. i currently play two builds in spvp and they both have very high survivability and damage. it normally takes multiple opponents to take me down, unless they’re experienced

What class are you? What build do you run?

thief of course.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/PVP-bunker-dodger-build-New-Vids-Part3/first

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ecl8d0TQGQ

That is a WvWvW video, how do you kill anyone in SPVP. Your stealthed 90% of the time. How do you deal with trying to hold points?

No this vid is of tpvp/ spvp… He can hold points because He doesn’t rely on stealth. But, this is a build that may get hard countered by ele, guards, and esp necro.
Click on his link.

What in the world are you talking about? If he’s running this build his dmg will not use heart seekers. Learn more about thieves pls

WvW Thief, Dagger/Pistol: “Slayer” build (Perma-stealth Roaming)
Nice video!
What does this have to do with SPVP?

What? one build can’t be effective both in spvp and wvwvw?

Jakeism.8136:

Daecollo.9578:

Raptured.9307:

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

the majority of the people who play thieves just plain suck. i currently play two builds in spvp and they both have very high survivability and damage. it normally takes multiple opponents to take me down, unless they’re experienced

What class are you? What build do you run?

thief of course.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/PVP-bunker-dodger-build-New-Vids-Part3/first

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ecl8d0TQGQ

That is a WvWvW video, how do you kill anyone in SPVP. Your stealthed 90% of the time. How do you deal with trying to hold points?

No this vid is of tpvp/ spvp… He can hold points because He doesn’t rely on stealth. But, this is a build that may get hard countered by ele, guards, and esp necro.
Click on his link.

What in the world are you talking about? If he’s running this build his dmg will not use heart seekers. Learn more about thieves pls

WvW Thief, Dagger/Pistol: “Slayer” build (Perma-stealth Roaming)
Nice video!
What does this have to do with SPVP?

What? one build can’t be effective both in spvp and wvwvw?

In WvWvW people don’t stand in one place for caltrops to be effective.

… I’m utterly lost in your exchanges at this point. Just add me, pm me, and fight me so that I can show thieves are more than decent at dueling non bunker eles and guards

Will be on later today~

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

Daecollo.9578:

Raptured.9307:

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

the majority of the people who play thieves just plain suck. i currently play two builds in spvp and they both have very high survivability and damage. it normally takes multiple opponents to take me down, unless they’re experienced

What class are you? What build do you run?

thief of course.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/PVP-bunker-dodger-build-New-Vids-Part3/first

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ecl8d0TQGQ

That is a WvWvW video, how do you kill anyone in SPVP. Your stealthed 90% of the time. How do you deal with trying to hold points?

No this vid is of tpvp/ spvp… He can hold points because He doesn’t rely on stealth. But, this is a build that may get hard countered by ele, guards, and esp necro.
Click on his link.

What in the world are you talking about? If he’s running this build his dmg will not use heart seekers. Learn more about thieves pls

WvW Thief, Dagger/Pistol: “Slayer” build (Perma-stealth Roaming)
Nice video!
What does this have to do with SPVP?

What? one build can’t be effective both in spvp and wvwvw?

In WvWvW people don’t stand in one place for caltrops to be effective.

i don’t even use caltrops for that build. haha

Jakeism.8136:

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

Daecollo.9578:

Raptured.9307:

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

Daecollo.9578:

Jakeism.8136:

the majority of the people who play thieves just plain suck. i currently play two builds in spvp and they both have very high survivability and damage. it normally takes multiple opponents to take me down, unless they’re experienced

What class are you? What build do you run?

thief of course.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/PVP-bunker-dodger-build-New-Vids-Part3/first

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ecl8d0TQGQ

That is a WvWvW video, how do you kill anyone in SPVP. Your stealthed 90% of the time. How do you deal with trying to hold points?

No this vid is of tpvp/ spvp… He can hold points because He doesn’t rely on stealth. But, this is a build that may get hard countered by ele, guards, and esp necro.
Click on his link.

What in the world are you talking about? If he’s running this build his dmg will not use heart seekers. Learn more about thieves pls

WvW Thief, Dagger/Pistol: “Slayer” build (Perma-stealth Roaming)
Nice video!
What does this have to do with SPVP?

What? one build can’t be effective both in spvp and wvwvw?

In WvWvW people don’t stand in one place for caltrops to be effective.

i don’t even use caltrops for that build. haha

I’m getting confused by the two different posters.

Raptured.9307:

Ah if you are talking about his wvw video that is pretty much the build I run for spvp. It is even more effective for spvp (I runs similar one). Does crazy damage and is highly survivable. I’m surprised it isn’t nerfed, as it is the terror of hot joins.

NICE one! Have fun in sPvP anyway, but you are just badly informed about thieves. There is only one viable build in sPvP for thieves (classic BS). You won’t see other builds on a competitive level.

The only class that needs some serious buff, is warrior, thief in my opinon are ok but adding new builds to the class is needed just like for every class.

Destiny.6738:

Raptured.9307:

Ah if you are talking about his wvw video that is pretty much the build I run for spvp. It is even more effective for spvp (I runs similar one). Does crazy damage and is highly survivable. I’m surprised it isn’t nerfed, as it is the terror of hot joins.

NICE one! Have fun in sPvP anyway, but you are just badly informed about thieves. There is only one viable build in sPvP for thieves (classic BS). You won’t see other builds on a competitive level.

I’m truly curious why p/d perma-stealth thieves are not viable in tpvp? In a team fight they won’t have much trouble getting their CnD/sneak attacks off and putting out decent condition damager – same question for the deathblossom unicorn build I guess. Is it just that there are other classes that fill that role more efficiently or that they are easy to counter (not for me!)

Thiefs are viable, in fact some of the top players on leaderboards are thiefs. But they are not disproportionally represented. In fact a little under represented.

Thiefs are probably a little on the weak side, but only a tad, I think the main thief spec. (assassins signet backstab) is not in need of a buff. they just need more ways to play.

daydream.2938:

Thiefs are viable, in fact some of the top players on leaderboards are thiefs. But they are not disproportionally represented. In fact a little under represented.

Thiefs are probably a little on the weak side, but only a tad, I think the main thief spec. (assassins signet backstab) is not in need of a buff. they just need more ways to play.

i wouldn’t be sure about it.

i will never be tired of saying it, but currently DPS eles are way better than thieves.
with valk amulet S/D eles can burst istantly (even while dodging) and D/D eles have ridicolous sustain and burst. ( more than 10k damage, AOE).

And no, thieves do not have better mobility than eles, absolutely.

Morover, eles can keep a point 1vs1 for quite some time ( usually winning) while a thief has no chance to win a 1vs1 unless he outplays his opponent while an ele can simply faceroll his keyboard and survive long enough.

Thieves are more than weak: they’re just a step above warriors. They’re playable, but not optimal.

And do not take leaderaboards too seriously: the only 2 thieves in the first page ( kultas and lowell) have played little to nothing ( especially team curse) and they’re sitting with their old rating.

d/p thieves are the one I encounter most, I literally stop fighting them because the stupid amount of stealth just kitten es me off more than any other thief build, well second to s/d bunker but that build makes me cry for a whole other reason. If you think bs thieves are the only useful thief you’re pretty kitten wrong.
Lack of condition removals compared to how often they can be planted on you makes p/d thieves useful too.

Leadfoot.9071:

Destiny.6738:

Raptured.9307:

Ah if you are talking about his wvw video that is pretty much the build I run for spvp. It is even more effective for spvp (I runs similar one). Does crazy damage and is highly survivable. I’m surprised it isn’t nerfed, as it is the terror of hot joins.

NICE one! Have fun in sPvP anyway, but you are just badly informed about thieves. There is only one viable build in sPvP for thieves (classic BS). You won’t see other builds on a competitive level.

I’m truly curious why p/d perma-stealth thieves are not viable in tpvp? In a team fight they won’t have much trouble getting their CnD/sneak attacks off and putting out decent condition damager – same question for the deathblossom unicorn build I guess. Is it just that there are other classes that fill that role more efficiently or that they are easy to counter (not for me!)

You basically answered your own question. HGH engy far overshadows any kind of sustained condition damage build Thieves can roll in the current meta. Even if we take HGH out of the picture, Necro, Ele, Rangers, all have much, much better sustained condition damage builds available.

Single high bleed stacks are too easily cleansed in teamfights with all the AoE condi removals flying around. Not to mention you can only stack it on a single enemy at a time when Caltrops are inactive. The P/D build can’t even function as a proper bunker due to the reliance on frequent stealthing.

TL;DR being decent, or even “pretty good” at doing something isn’t enough to be viable. For a build to be viable it needs to be one of the best builds available to serve a certain role. For Thieves, the only build that fits this viability criteria is the roaming backstab burst build and its variations. Even venom-share is easily overshadowed by the support offered by Ele’s D/D aura-share, group healing and aoe damage.

Thieves are horrible cappers, stealth bunker is the only way you can survive and that is pointless since you can’t cap or keep neutral in stealth. They are not balanced for spvp at all. Their damage can be easily avoided, I’m more of an asset to my team on a warrior than a thief. Trustorybro

Enjoy roaming and backcapping because that’s all you’re good for, oh and running like a coward.

Well it would seem ANet agrees with the OP moreso than the people claiming thieves are fine because Thief and Warrior are the only 2 classes repeatedly brought up when talking about boon hate.

Even when bunkered, they aren’t comparable to other bunkers. Their damage while bunkered isn’t comparable to other true DPS classes. The utility the class offers is quite limited. They don’t compliment other classes well or provide much to the individual roles in s/tPVP.

But I’m new and I hope to grow into the class over the next couple weeks/month and hope my opinion changes. But for right now I def see where the OP is coming from.

Atherakhia.4086:

Well it would seem ANet agrees with the OP moreso than the people claiming thieves are fine because Thief and Warrior are the only 2 classes repeatedly brought up when talking about boon hate.

Even when bunkered, they aren’t comparable to other bunkers. Their damage while bunkered isn’t comparable to other true DPS classes. The utility the class offers is quite limited. They don’t compliment other classes well or provide much to the individual roles in s/tPVP.

But I’m new and I hope to grow into the class over the next couple weeks/month and hope my opinion changes. But for right now I def see where the OP is coming from.

in fact, in my thread ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Are-you-going-to-do-something-about-thieves/first) jon clearly said thieves are weak in high tier PvP and need help, with a good look at other game’s areas ( since thieves are very good in WvW but also weak in PvE) .

No matters what “pros” say, thieves are obviously weak, even D/P burst, and an ele can do thief role way better than a thief.

If there’re thieves on top it’s for very simple reasons:

1. your teammates are carrying you, since a thief can shine only when his teammates know what they’re doing and do it well.

2. your skill is way superior than your opponent’s

3. your team skill ( coordination, sinergy and stuff) is way superior than your opponent’s

Period.

I think that condition builds and burster builds (the latter being most common in the thief meta right now) are going to die out, and eventually be replaced by bunker and balanced builds. The reason is simply that these two types of builds simply do great damage still, but have some absolutely amazing survivability. The burster thieves have had their time to shine, but I’m beginning to see many more survivable builds that appear to be working great, so I can’t say that I see any other way that the future meta will progress, given this.

Commisar.8695:

d/p thieves are the one I encounter most, I literally stop fighting them because the stupid amount of stealth just kitten es me off more than any other thief build, well second to s/d bunker but that build makes me cry for a whole other reason. If you think bs thieves are the only useful thief you’re pretty kitten wrong.
Lack of condition removals compared to how often they can be planted on you makes p/d thieves useful too.

You don’t like me? Wanna fight about it? :-P

Adaneshade.2409:

Commisar.8695:

d/p thieves are the one I encounter most, I literally stop fighting them because the stupid amount of stealth just kitten es me off more than any other thief build, well second to s/d bunker but that build makes me cry for a whole other reason. If you think bs thieves are the only useful thief you’re pretty kitten wrong.
Lack of condition removals compared to how often they can be planted on you makes p/d thieves useful too.

You don’t like me? Wanna fight about it? :-P

Never again, 30-1 nty