Guild Wars 2

Ok iv seen ALOT of qq about thieves and people calling out for nerf nerf nerf and yes because anet has to satisfy the majority and nerf HS so as to not lose majority of its consumers, it did, and now what happens? People complain about PW PW PW spam omg noob noob, seriously when anyone wants to QQ PLEASE actually TRY OUT and PLAY the class before QQing so hard and complaining of faceroll and realise that its not that easy to land your PW on a team fight and its even harder to survive as a squishy thief in a teamfight if u actually want to do bursty damage like what everyone is complaining about having 14k hp with 2k toughness is certainly not easy to survive, and if one specs into glass cannon build to do such damage than its justified as he is easily killed, and i know its aggravating to see 17k pistol whip damage done and just die in 3 seconds but do you realise that IF you actually sneak up to the thief and do the same thing u can easily kill him in the same amount of time?? Have anyone thought of that? Well of course you should be able to play your own class decently.

And also on another hand, WHY is gurdians not being called for major nerf when all i see of gurdians in pvp is faceroll? ( i even tried one myself) Really MANY of its created specs are ridiculous, Spirit weapons build with bane signet? You are almost undefeatable 1v1 except against a mesmer with a 8 SECOND KNOCKDOWN (bane signets 2 sec + hammer of wisdom 3 sec command and another 3 sec on chain Immediately right after the command skill which is on a 15 SECONDS cooldown.

This sir is ridiculous i mean a 6 second knockdown on a 15 sec cooldown? Adding on the fact that the weapons damage is pretty decent which crits for 3k to 4k and the damage u deal from scepter and auto attacks are pretty decent, also a gurdians heal heals for 8K + (not triated) on a 32 sec cd THIS is ridiculous IMO the highest heal in the game that has a decent cooldown, and triple meditation builds are just undefeatable by a thief 1v1 seriously ANY Class should be able to beat ANY class 1v1 with a higher skill of the player. Oh and add on mr retaliation with a 30 second retaliation build who is untouchable unless you wanna die.

And now for the final question, WHY are there so manykittenqq posts about thieves being op op op while gurdian is left untouched????! Having played 2 classes, i can tell you that GURDIAN is even MORE faceroll than thieves and and hammer of wisdom is really too much and the 100% uptime retaliation builds are just OPED upfront IMO.

Guardians are not more faceroll than thieves, they just faceroll thieves who think they are op because thieves cannot faceroll them.

I had to log in to agree with this. I main a Thief and I wanted to try a Guardian out for fun. I face rolled so much easier then on my Thief.
I went with a great sword spec with two meditations and buff to my F123 keys. I was not doing as much damage as my thief but I was hurting people for a good amount. I had more support, more healing, more tanky, then on my thief.

honestly having played a thief for like more than 18 glory levels (25 atm the rest by other classes) thief was my main class until i realised how UP they are compared to mesmers lol, i realise how little utility ( meaning the versatility of what they can do in a fight) they have, all they can actually do well is burst damage, interrupt( if you know how) and than run, they cant really sustain in a team fight and have to run after bursting down someone.

Back to the point, lol have u ever tried killing a gurdian with a thief?? its nearly impossible in a 1v1 situation if the gurdian is actually notkitten that is generally the mainpoint im adressing that in a proper game, one class shouldnt be not able to kill another with equal skill. (Of course the victor is the one that with lesser mistakes, clutch interrupts, good dodges and so on) but for thieves vs gurdian…. not a chance.

Javious.4912:

Ok iv seen ALOT of qq about thieves and people calling out for nerf nerf nerf and yes because anet has to satisfy the majority and nerf HS so as to not lose majority of its consumers, it did, and now what happens? People complain about PW PW PW spam omg noob noob, seriously when anyone wants to QQ PLEASE actually TRY OUT and PLAY the class before QQing so hard and complaining of faceroll and realise that its not that easy to land your PW on a team fight and its even harder to survive as a squishy thief in a teamfight if u actually want to do bursty damage like what everyone is complaining about having 14k hp with 2k toughness is certainly not easy to survive, and if one specs into glass cannon build to do such damage than its justified as he is easily killed, and i know its aggravating to see 17k pistol whip damage done and just die in 3 seconds but do you realise that IF you actually sneak up to the thief and do the same thing u can easily kill him in the same amount of time?? Have anyone thought of that? Well of course you should be able to play your own class decently.

And also on another hand, WHY is gurdians not being called for major nerf when all i see of gurdians in pvp is faceroll? ( i even tried one myself) Really MANY of its created specs are ridiculous, Spirit weapons build with bane signet? You are almost undefeatable 1v1 except against a mesmer with a 8 SECOND KNOCKDOWN (bane signets 2 sec + hammer of wisdom 3 sec command and another 3 sec on chain Immediately right after the command skill which is on a 15 SECONDS cooldown.

This sir is ridiculous i mean a 6 second knockdown on a 15 sec cooldown? Adding on the fact that the weapons damage is pretty decent which crits for 3k to 4k and the damage u deal from scepter and auto attacks are pretty decent, also a gurdians heal heals for 8K + (not triated) on a 32 sec cd THIS is ridiculous IMO the highest heal in the game that has a decent cooldown, and triple meditation builds are just undefeatable by a thief 1v1 seriously ANY Class should be able to beat ANY class 1v1 with a higher skill of the player. Oh and add on mr retaliation with a 30 second retaliation build who is untouchable unless you wanna die.

And now for the final question, WHY are there so manykittenqq posts about thieves being op op op while gurdian is left untouched????! Having played 2 classes, i can tell you that GURDIAN is even MORE faceroll than thieves and and hammer of wisdom is really too much and the 100% uptime retaliation builds are just OPED upfront IMO.

I have no problem with the glass cannon build on thiefes or the damage output. I have a problem that the same thief strikes me and goes back into stealth … and not only one time but like 3-4 times everytime i have to face one

Well stealth is a thieves main mechanic lol all you have to do is figure out ways to counter and trust me after you play a thief you will generally know where a thief is in stealth

If a Thief stealths, do what I do, auto attack around with a melee weapon. You will be able to hear the hit, or you will go to your next attack. I am useing a sword right now on my Thief so it is a little easier. Just Guardians are wicked for everything. Good Mesmer’s are wicked annoying to.
Edit : Mesmer’s are wicked annoying but you can at least take them down. And I have beaten some Guardians in 1v1, just if there good, it’s going to be almost impossible.

really i dont believe in counters to Classes but i DO believe in counters to specs thats why i just find this ridiculous.
hahaha i just love mesmers thier too good (:

Im a Thief and can´t kill Guardian thread??

I agree that it is nearly impossible to 1 v 1 a Guardian with a Thief.
Ever since I learned how sustainable Mesmers are, I have been sticking with it for sPvP.

I mean, a Thief sounds cool and all being able to go into stealth and dealing high bursts of damage etc., but when it comes to really sustaining and contributing in real team fights, (glasscannon) Thieves are pretty much easily obliterated (especially when you get caught and targeted). Invisibility “isn’t of much use” when your opponents can predict your movements and in big team fights, the last-bit of invisibility usually is used to escape (run away from the fight, unless you have a deathwish) when you have low HP (and basically in Conquest matches, running away would mean losing the point to your opponent; coming back out of invisibility with low HP would most likely kill you).

I have yet to try a lifesteal/tank Thief build though.

I think the guardian is a stronger class, but the thief is more of what I would describe as faceroll.

so i would like to ask if gurdians is obviously more oped than thieves where is the QQ for gurdians but why so much hate for thieves?

Good job about the complaining on a Guardian spec that requires almost an entire dedication to the Spirit Weapons themselves.

Learn to kite and have a Break Stun ready if you see one coming. The Spirit Weapons cooldowns start on disappearance which means once they are gone, you have 30-45s of free damage on the almost useless Guardian.

If im not wrong u can command TWICE before its dead and yea break stun??? u miss the first command but the 2nd weapon chain will hit and its not like it only knockdowns on command normally the weapon chain combo would also knockdown when my break stun is on a 45 sec cd

To use the command twice, you must have 20 pts in the Zeal line which is pretty much useless except for this particular Trait and another 10 pts in the Virtues line at minimum. The other requirement is that you must use the first knockback within 15s of summoning the SW if you want the 2nd knockdown later. But that means, either the first or second knockdown will be rushed and not timed very well during a fight.

The Spirit Weapons move at normal speed, cannot benefit from buffs and do not attack stealthed targets. The Hammer chain is very obvious and can be dodged appropriately easily if you pay attention which you should if you have two SWs on your back.

The best counter against such a Guardian as Thief would be Pistol I think as you can stealth/kite while still doing damage. Remember, if he has SW, he does not have Retaliation up for long, if ever, so unload. Another solution is obviously access to Stability boon.

I’m not saying it’s easy for a Thief as this and Retaliation builds are probably the most annoying for you. You’ll have to live with the fact a Thief getting chain knockdown, by any class, is going to be at disadvantage because he has low HPs and can’t stealth while stunned which is your main damage evasion mechanic.

Since you are so weak to knockback/stun, might be a good idea to pick 2 stun breaks. I run with two on my DPS Guardian and I’m much bulkier than you.

Also, remember that while you might be generally weak against such a build as a typical glass canon Thief, at the same time, that Guardian is very vulnerable to a number of other builds, particularly against fast conditions in general.

RamzaBehoulve.5640:

To use the command twice, you must have 20 pts in the Zeal line which is pretty much useless except for this particular Trait and another 10 pts in the Virtues line at minimum. The other requirement is that you must use the first knockback within 15s of summoning the SW if you want the 2nd knockdown later. But that means, either the first or second knockdown will be rushed and not timed very well during a fight.

The Spirit Weapons move at normal speed, cannot benefit from buffs and do not attack stealthed targets. The Hammer chain is very obvious and can be dodged appropriately easily if you pay attention which you should if you have two SWs on your back.

The best counter against such a Guardian as Thief would be Pistol I think as you can stealth/kite while still doing damage. Remember, if he has SW, he does not have Retaliation up for long, if ever, so unload. Another solution is obviously access to Stability boon.

I’m not saying it’s easy for a Thief as this and Retaliation builds are probably the most annoying for you. You’ll have to live with the fact a Thief getting chain knockdown, by any class, is going to be at disadvantage because he has low HPs and can’t stealth while stunned which is your main damage evasion mechanic.

Since you are so weak to knockback/stun, might be a good idea to pick 2 stun breaks. I run with two on my DPS Guardian and I’m much bulkier than you.

Also, remember that while you might be generally weak against such a build as a typical glass canon Thief, at the same time, that Guardian is very vulnerable to a number of other builds, particularly against fast conditions in general.

Well a decent reply but i still dont think this justifies my QQ lol first of all, normally in tourneys thieves carry BOW and S/P or D/D bow is a must cause of mobillity and in tourneys thieves are all roamers and FYI if u actually get hit by the first command knockdown, it is virtually impossible unless u have a blink to escape the 2nd hammer cause RIGHT IMMEDIATELY after the 1st knockdown is over the 2nd once comes in im not even kidding you can go check and also thieves have NO skills i repeat NO skills that have ANY stabillity buff whatsoever except for dagger storm elite which is stupid cause its an elite on 180 sec cd

And also theres this bug that when STEALTHED, the SW FOLLOW YOU for like 1.5 secs? i mean thats like WTF considering stealth lasts only like 3 secs and the heal of gurdians as well as the 100% uptime retaliation type of gurdians is not justified yet.

and also dont u think 8 sec of knockdown is abit oped? you can easily land it if u actually open up with bane’s signet first.
and yea back to the point, if you know so much of a thieves weakness than why are there SO Much QQ bout thieves being op op op and gurdians not being justified??

I agree with the OP to a certain extent. But he still sounds like a hypocrite.

don’t know if i faced strong or weak guardians, but i think you can win guardian if you are built in the right way.
i mean dual dagger imho won’t win because of no controls. offhand pistol is a good start because of the daze at will. interrupt heaing on guardian and half of your work is done.
too difficult? learn to do it. simple.
thief have traps also. IE: 2 secs kd

just some example.

my main build is a S/P build well i tried all the builds , and yea my interrupts are pretty good cause i actually train it lol but still no chance against gurdians cause they just hurt so much and thier triple meditation spec heals them for bout 2.5k per meditation which is an instant cast skill lol only way to win is open with thieves guild elite which is stupid cause its a 180 s cd.

Javious.4912:

and also dont u think 8 sec of knockdown is abit oped? you can easily land it if u actually open up with bane’s signet first.
and yea back to the point, if you know so much of a thieves weakness than why are there SO Much QQ bout thieves being op op op and gurdians not being justified??

The bane signet has a specific animation, so if you see it used as opener, it’s a good time to use that stun break then stealth immediately and run around avoiding the Hammer.

I don’t know much about Thief as I do not play one, but since it’s pretty much a FOTM class at the moment, I’ve come to see a few things repeated over and over, and well, that Guardian build and also the Retaliation build are particularly effective against the most common Thief builds and Legion Mesmers, so no wonder they are starting to appear.

I just love it when people come down to look at animation bit. Can you really look for all the animations on so many players around you esp asuras? No you cant.

Also PW has animation too. Also HS and every other thing Thief does so whats the difference.

You see thief fly to you you dodge. And not once but twice because that way you will make him miss 2 HS and you will dodge other 2 and he is out of ini and then he will stealth if he is succesful in doing so because all the stealth mechanics are broken. If he does go in his general direction spam 1 and there you go you have a free kill.

Thiefs are UP you just cant dodge. Animations are useless since you cant see them in time to react.

Please play Thief make a HS build and try it out or PW build. You will see how hard it is to land those. In fact any build requires more skill than guardian that can simply uses my 6k dmg and retaliates so I kill my self. OH yeah I forgot he has animation for that too.

Bait the knockdowns with your blink step moves? Stunbreak-dodgeroll?
You have the most elusive proffesion in the game yet you QQ about slow-hitting OBVIOUS knockback spells.

You play the most FOTM proffesion in the game right now and you’re surprised you run into alot of counter builds?
When i see atleast 2 thiefs in every game, including tourney play, ofcourse i will swap to have CC or retaliation builds.

Thiefs have no right to QQ about anything, nor do guardians. They are both two of the three most reliable proffesions right now. Though i do have to say thiefs are over the top. highest mobility in the game, most evades, super high bleed stacking, highest damage/spell in the game.

You’re not going to see ANY other proffesion hit for 8k with 1 buttonclick (that doesnt even have a cooldown.) Elementalists are even more easy to kill than thiefs if they want to run a burst build, yet still their burst is twice as hard to hit, and still half as good.

EDIT: forgot to add that the 8k 1 click spell also has a ministun (aka interrupt, which is godly.) Even if you stunbreak the first one, if they have quickness up they will land the second stun before you’re able to avoid it.

it is not stupid if your role was to kill guardian to cap point. and i remember you that you have 3 utility slots but a lot of utility skills less used because of trend.
build your own build (lol) and train with it.

@lyn: there are players who took 3-4 years to see the mesmer animation of diversion and understad it in gw1. it will take same time for someone , but as thief if i want to interrupt a guardian i look only for him, and in 5v5 except some times when there are great teamfights, i can see if he is using elite and interrupt those skills.
practice with it is more difficult than call it impossible, but it is not the right way to deal with it.

lyn.4156:

I just love it when people come down to look at animation bit. Can you really look for all the animations on so many players around you esp asuras? No you cant.

Also PW has animation too. Also HS and every other thing Thief does so whats the difference.

You see thief fly to you you dodge. And not once but twice because that way you will make him miss 2 HS and you will dodge other 2 and he is out of ini and then he will stealth if he is succesful in doing so because all the stealth mechanics are broken. If he does go in his general direction spam 1 and there you go you have a free kill.

Thiefs are UP you just cant dodge. Animations are useless since you cant see them in time to react.

Please play Thief make a HS build and try it out or PW build. You will see how hard it is to land those. In fact any build requires more skill than guardian that can simply uses my 6k dmg and retaliates so I kill my self. OH yeah I forgot he has animation for that too.

The problems you describe with the inability to watch animations is just symptomatic of the 8v8 zergy environment. In a 1v1, the case which OP is debating and actually happen in 5v5, you can very well see the animations coming (even in 2v2).

I don’t remember complaining about PW or HS, so I do not see the point of bringing that up. I have no problem with either in 1v1. However, most people complained about HS spam, or its lack of variety and how it was a one click only noobstomper, not really the damage. PW, from my understanding, is comboed with quickness and a teleport. I don’t see any problem with it. It’s similar to the 100B combo from Warrior. It’s easily countered by a stun breaker if you get caught or anticipation. Of course, once again in a 8v8 situation, you’ll likely get roflstomped.

I already play 5 professions in sPvP and have absolutely no reason, nor will to play Thief. However, I’m sure I’d quickly find a way to dispatch those Guardians you seem to dislike because I know how they work, but that would be at the price of another profession or build having now the advantage. I just suggested possible solutions to the difficulties OP was having against a Guardian.

I believe I gave enough explanations for people to start thinking about how they can counter those guardian builds with their Thief. Just QQing will get you nowhere, just like other people QQing about PW and 100B will get them nowhere either.

Through my experience with different professions, it’s become very apparent people need to accept that their build, while it can be strong overall, will always have a few nemesis around.

For example, I’ve been playing my Guardian Retribution build an hour earlier. A condition necro happened to be there. In my normal DPS GS/Hammer mode, I completely destroy them. In this build, as a buff bot, I got wtfowned by his insane condition/boon manipulation because I relied on boons.

SmackMyBird.2386:

Bait the knockdowns with your blink step moves? Stunbreak-dodgeroll?
You have the most elusive proffesion in the game yet you QQ about slow-hitting OBVIOUS knockback spells.

You play the most FOTM proffesion in the game right now and you’re surprised you run into alot of counter builds?
When i see atleast 2 thiefs in every game, including tourney play, ofcourse i will swap to have CC or retaliation builds.

Thiefs have no right to QQ about anything, nor do guardians. They are both two of the three most reliable proffesions right now. Though i do have to say thiefs are over the top. highest mobility in the game, most evades, super high bleed stacking, highest damage/spell in the game.

You’re not going to see ANY other proffesion hit for 8k with 1 buttonclick (that doesnt even have a cooldown.) Elementalists are even more easy to kill than thiefs if they want to run a burst build, yet still their burst is twice as hard to hit, and still half as good.

EDIT: forgot to add that the 8k 1 click spell also has a ministun (aka interrupt, which is godly.) Even if you stunbreak the first one, if they have quickness up they will land the second stun before you’re able to avoid it.

By the way, as currently i main as a mesmer, i can tell you that your point of 2 most reliable classes is WRONG, thief after playing it for 18 glory levels as i said and much experience i won like at least 15 tourneys?(gold) really its not that reliable as in team fights it does not really contribute much, i mean if u wanna rofl stop someone in a teamfight with pistol whip, u have to bare in mind that your VERY squishy and once actually enter that teamfight u will probably get 1 shotted by multiple aoes. Well of course thats why i play as a mesmer now good range damage and good melee damage and invurns perfect but thats not the point.

And LOL! u speak as thou as blink and stun break skills are on a what 15 second cooldown?? Well you sir obviously HAVE NOT played a thief long enough from the fact that u mentioned with quickness buff one u can close your eyes, and just spam one button, WRONG! the 0.5 sec stun is NOT long enough for you to continuously land PW in a successful sequence lol the victim would have a 0.5 sec chance to dodge back and thats not very short in a PVP situation is it?

And lol never see any profession with 1 button no cooldown obviously cause no other professions than thief have no cooldowns ??? But what you have to realise is thieves use initiative, something that NON thief players dont know how it even works (not theoratically but experimentally) and just QQ thierkitten through.

And how could you explain a thief (level 19) probably won several tourneys and have -played at least 20 s PVP games not being able to 1v1 a gurdian( level 8 lets say just started a few days ago and no tPVP experience).

talking about animations, as back to my original point its about QQ of thieves and why no QQ for gurdians, as lynn has said the animation of HS and PW is SOOO obvious why cant people dodge than? Instead of qqing all day because of their lack of the abillity to dodge? This just adds to my point.

Javious.4912:

talking about animations, as back to my original point its about QQ of thieves and why no QQ for gurdians, as lynn has said the animation of HS and PW is SOOO obvious why cant people dodge than? Instead of qqing all day because of their lack of the abillity to dodge? This just adds to my point.

because it is easier to come here, claim something is op and whine all day ong instead of practicing.

RamzaBehoulve.5640:

lyn.4156:

I just love it when people come down to look at animation bit. Can you really look for all the animations on so many players around you esp asuras? No you cant.

Also PW has animation too. Also HS and every other thing Thief does so whats the difference.

You see thief fly to you you dodge. And not once but twice because that way you will make him miss 2 HS and you will dodge other 2 and he is out of ini and then he will stealth if he is succesful in doing so because all the stealth mechanics are broken. If he does go in his general direction spam 1 and there you go you have a free kill.

Thiefs are UP you just cant dodge. Animations are useless since you cant see them in time to react.

Please play Thief make a HS build and try it out or PW build. You will see how hard it is to land those. In fact any build requires more skill than guardian that can simply uses my 6k dmg and retaliates so I kill my self. OH yeah I forgot he has animation for that too.

The problems you describe with the inability to watch animations is just symptomatic of the 8v8 zergy environment. In a 1v1, the case which OP is debating and actually happen in 5v5, you can very well see the animations coming (even in 2v2).

I don’t remember complaining about PW or HS, so I do not see the point of bringing that up. I have no problem with either in 1v1. However, most people complained about HS spam, or its lack of variety and how it was a one click only noobstomper, not really the damage. PW, from my understanding, is comboed with quickness and a teleport. I don’t see any problem with it. It’s similar to the 100B combo from Warrior. It’s easily countered by a stun breaker if you get caught or anticipation. Of course, once again in a 8v8 situation, you’ll likely get roflstomped.

I already play 5 professions in sPvP and have absolutely no reason, nor will to play Thief. However, I’m sure I’d quickly find a way to dispatch those Guardians you seem to dislike because I know how they work, but that would be at the price of another profession or build having now the advantage. I just suggested possible solutions to the difficulties OP was having against a Guardian.

I believe I gave enough explanations for people to start thinking about how they can counter those guardian builds with their Thief. Just QQing will get you nowhere, just like other people QQing about PW and 100B will get them nowhere either.

Through my experience with different professions, it’s become very apparent people need to accept that their build, while it can be strong overall, will always have a few nemesis around.

For example, I’ve been playing my Guardian Retribution build an hour earlier. A condition necro happened to be there. In my normal DPS GS/Hammer mode, I completely destroy them. In this build, as a buff bot, I got wtfowned by his insane condition/boon manipulation because I relied on boons.

Well i like it that you come from a neutral stand point but sir if you havnt tried the thief class and esp fighting a gurdian 1v1 its very hard to explain how ridiculous is the situation right now in the 1v1 state ( this is very important cause as the roamer in tPVP you HAVE to be a reliable 1v1 if not your useless lol) and yea you mentioned about different builds countering such and such well i agree with that but im saying that ATM theres NO thief builds that actually counter any orthodox gurdian build right now and not even not counterable its not beatable well again if the gurdian is not akitten

No sorry but you cannot just sneak up two someone like a thief does and kill them in the same time frame that the thief would. Heart seeker is designed to scale with lower HP so a thief just wait outside and waits until the team gets that somebody low on health and in the thief runs in or shall I say shadow steps in and start spamming his ability a

It’s just frustrating to experience this type of thing as a victim. Any thief who thinks that their class is fair needs to rethink.

Yea that is what people call sPVP and of course it needs to be balanced for everyone to have fun, but lets say that happens to you everytime, than after some time , you would have the gut feeling that a thief would come in anytime cause your like 20% than at that time, so what do you do? First be more aware of a thief nearby, second DODGE ROLL and most thieves will just Q up like 5 HS, and there you go you not getting one shotted in 2 seconds and having more reaction time , and btw FYI thats a thieves job to assasinate lol also any class can do that i mean if your low on health any class can run in and kill you easily for an average player of course.

Any class can kill you fast if you are low on health and if he can do a much faster because heart seeker scales that’s a very fair. A thief lies outside of battle and waits until somebody is low on health and then goes in for the kill. That’s not very fun for other players to always have to be paranoid thinking that a thief is going to pop out and heart seeker them.

Basically no other class makes other players have a less fun in a less enjoyable time in PVP as the thief. The other classes that come close would be the classes with a lot of pets because it makes them hard to target and just confuses other players making the screen a mess.

But the current abundance of NPC pets is another issue.

Can’t we all just be OP together?

Idc… I faceroll guardians all the time as a Thief, and every other class for that matter. :P

Guardians are OP

Most guardians are cake, but the ones that have traited well and know how to play are insanely hard to kill, harder to kill then any other well played class

gwawer.9805:

Any class can kill you fast if you are low on health and if he can do a much faster because heart seeker scales that’s a very fair. A thief lies outside of battle and waits until somebody is low on health and then goes in for the kill. That’s not very fun for other players to always have to be paranoid thinking that a thief is going to pop out and heart seeker them.

Basically no other class makes other players have a less fun in a less enjoyable time in PVP as the thief. The other classes that come close would be the classes with a lot of pets because it makes them hard to target and just confuses other players making the screen a mess.

But the current abundance of NPC pets is another issue.

Exactly what thieves are for you de.rp

Play with stability, problem solved /yawns

And I’m not meaning to play with daggerstorm but to play as a group thief. If you re seriously chargin a SW guard as a thief they are some braincells not workin .

Well i like it that you come from a neutral stand point but sir if you havnt tried the thief class and esp fighting a gurdian 1v1 its very hard to explain how ridiculous is the situation right now in the 1v1 state

Every class should have her NEMESIS. Ever was, ever is, ever will be the case, can’t be more simple.

Aelona.8572:

Play with stability, problem solved /yawns

And I’m not meaning to play with daggerstorm but to play as a group thief. If you re seriously chargin a SW guard as a thief they are some braincells not workin .

Well i like it that you come from a neutral stand point but sir if you havnt tried the thief class and esp fighting a gurdian 1v1 its very hard to explain how ridiculous is the situation right now in the 1v1 state

Every class should have her NEMESIS. Ever was, ever is, ever will be the case, can’t be more simple.

LOL you call a CLASS counter a fair game??? a Spec( BUILD) counter would be fair but a class that CANNOT build another class no matter what spec is just stupid and should not ever be there.
And have u even played tourneys? Yea let the gurdian be on the point for 20 secs so he can gain more points thus letting my team down LOL seriously u cant be kidding on your post right? Or trolling?

Hate to be “that guy” in here, but this is a L2P issue. Any class played by a decent player can be a neat challenge to defeat but Guardians are not “impossible” to kill by any measure if you play thief. They sure might be for the crit damage HS and PW builds but try practicing and getting good with a venom build…I melt Guardians and Warriors without issues. This is not a class counter, it’s the lot of you refusing to learn other builds that work better.

Of course this is where you all tell me I must be killing baddie Guardians all day where as you face top elite properly played ones consistently, right?

Only class annoys me to fight is mesmers. Keyword : annoying.

Mesmers don’t have a nemesis, just pointing it out.

As for nerfing theves, yeah I can totally understand a nerf when it comes to daggers, they were over the top.

But as far as Pistol Whip goes, then you got to be kidding, or you must be the worse player out there (this is not aimed at a person, rather many).

Pistol Whip needs a buff IMO cause by now most people must have cought on what happens when a thief with a sword and pistol briefly stuns you. Most people rooll away before the damage even builds, others stay and take it like a Japanese housewife, and I’m willing to bet all my gold that these are the same people moaning about PW and nerfing.

And please, complaining about stealth? There is no stealth, just a brief vanish which can be outlasted by anyone who is willing to put a little dedication into GW2 PVP and a little less dedication whining about it.

thats why i play mesmer lol cause i cant stand having a nemesis.
Lol and at zipzo , your actually only relating to the SW gurdians here but not adressing to the 100% uptime retaliation and meditation gurdians well more to the retaliation side, and also, the thing im proposing here is the fact that why there is NO gurdian QQ and gurdian nerf posts when there are TONS load of thief QQ post if its just a L2P issue?
Than L2P to counter Thieves and stop whining for nerfkitten

See Thieves complaining about Guardian being OP and Guardians complain about Thief being OP just make me laugh.
Just look at the situation of Necromancers and Elementalits…

the only thief i had trouble with on my guardian 1v1 was a bleed build who stacked 25 bleeds, disappeared into invisibility, suddenly came flying out with more bleeds and disappeared again etc.
at that time i didn’t have enough condition removals to deal with that more than once or twice.

in organized team pvp it’s different. had an enemy team that stunned and immobilized me while the thief used pistol whip behind me for 12500 dmg through my 3000 armor and then finished me in 1-2 more skills before i was even able to move.

I find it hard to judge the skill level of any player claiming to play a class, yet not showing it in basic knowledge of the class itself. That being said I have played around 500 matched as Guardian and Thief this is across all match types such as hot-join and tourney ques. I have played multiple builds and roles for both classes and honestly can’t fathom how you see one class is more OP then the other. As it currently stand the 1v1 match up goes to the more skilled player. If you can’t win as a thief vs. Guardian that’s your problem not the classes. I don’t want this to sound like another l2p post but honestly I think you should give it more time before you claim that one class is stronger than the other. If you think I’m wrong I’d be happy to hear where you think the imbalance between the classes arises. Assuming you can represent both classes evenly.

Best thread ever!

Really?; I have no problem to beat Guardians in SPVP <.< L2P

@Javious

I’m referring to any guardian. The only difference I notice based on what build they are is how much longer or shorter it takes to downstate them. I do not have problems with guardians. The guardian above even states that his biggest woes come from condition thieves (he described exactly how the condition thief generally plays in 1v1).

I believe it’s perfectly plausible that the inane amount of qq is coming from nothing but players that need to L2P. Look at the World of Warcraft forums, it’s not difficult to believe the GW2 forum is full of the same trash from its respective game.

Guardians are not OP or “impossible” to kill if you’re a thief. This is not contemplative or in the air, the PEBKAC. Roll the right build and never worry about Guardians again, or keep trying to PW spam them to death and get owned.

Javious.4912:

Aelona.8572:

Play with stability, problem solved /yawns

And I’m not meaning to play with daggerstorm but to play as a group thief. If you re seriously chargin a SW guard as a thief they are some braincells not workin .

Well i like it that you come from a neutral stand point but sir if you havnt tried the thief class and esp fighting a gurdian 1v1 its very hard to explain how ridiculous is the situation right now in the 1v1 state

Every class should have her NEMESIS. Ever was, ever is, ever will be the case, can’t be more simple.

LOL you call a CLASS counter a fair game??? a Spec( BUILD) counter would be fair but a class that CANNOT build another class no matter what spec is just stupid and should not ever be there.
And have u even played tourneys? Yea let the gurdian be on the point for 20 secs so he can gain more points thus letting my team down LOL seriously u cant be kidding on your post right? Or trolling?

Yeah I have pretty high high amount of matches won as a guardian, same goes for kills in general.

I’m also playin Guard / Mesmer / Engineer.

As a Guard my direct nemesis is the engie, as a mesmer it’s the elementalist or a well played guard, and as an engie it’s the ranger

And well yeah Im findin it absolutely normal that you can’t beat all the classes on your own or with the build you’re currently runnin.

Back to the fact : why the hell would you want to CHARGE a guardian that is runnin 2 OR 3 WEAPONS SIMULTANEOUSLY.

You can perfectly annoy the hell out of him by not chargin and playin with bow as a sin while you do your best to avoid stomps of hammer, by playin with your tools you know.

Ho and btw, the direct nemesis of Mesmer is the guardian. I’ve encountered some really, really good ones and they couldn’t do much against my guard

OP, why do you go ahead and automatically assume people haven’t tried thieves out in a game where you can instantly get to level 80 and PvP right off the bat? Really, why make that “assumption”?

Let me tell you, after level to 80 and then playing to rank 10 with my ranger I decided to try out another class. I had tried every spec, build, pet and weapons with my ranger for the record. I tried 4 other classes.

One of those classes was a thief. I went right into the HoTM, picked 2 daggers and 2 pistols and stuck a random sigil and runes in the pre-made armour, barely scratched the surface in what I could spec and just put all my points in damage.

I utterly destroyed people with no effort at all, far easier than with my ranger. I felt disgusted in myself even and promptly dropped the class.

So yeah, please, don’t make assumptions and make it out as you’re some hard done by class. There is a reason 90% of people whine about thieves, that doesn’t come from thin air nor with out merit, and the whole L2Dodge argument get’s stale, especially when that exact mechanic is needed for every other class as well.

I also tried guardians, and felt those were pretty balanced. As a ranger, they can take a while to kill so good node defenders but they are no threat.