Guild Wars 2

Instant kills? Is this the way it is supposed to be?

You could try getting more health.
See also: Toughness, And How To Not Explode When People Barely Bump Into You.

I agree that at least the heartseeker spam is out of control. HS thieves are running all over pvp because you can spam it and kill everything. I know because I rolled one and realized how easy it is to do.

I respeced my engi using a toughness and vitality build. Still see HS thieves all over, they just dont kill me as fast anymore.

milo.6942:

You could try getting more health.
See also: Toughness, And How To Not Explode When People Barely Bump Into You.

Not the issue but thanks for your useless reply anyway.

Thieves need a rebalance, full stop. No arguing against it.

I actually have no problem with heartseeker as it is only effective when youre hp is already low…but the backstab insta kill is a bit nuts.

17k health is pretty low, unless you have toughness to compensate, which doesn’t seem to be the case.

If this is happening to often for your liking maybe you should invest in more armor/toughness. On all the pvp alts I’ve rolled I havent had problems with any other classes. Then again I’ve played/researched the other classes so I’m aware of what they are doing.

But I suppose calling for nerfs is easier then reevaluating your approach.

What class were you playing?
What’s your spec?

This is info that would help the devs who view these post better assess the situation. Honestly it does help to supply more info.

uMad.5719:

If this is happening to often for your liking maybe you should invest in more armor/toughness. On all the pvp alts I’ve rolled I havent had problems with any other classes. Then again I’ve played/researched the other classes so I’m aware of what they are doing.

But I suppose calling for nerfs is easier then reevaluating your approach.

Who was calling for nerfs? I was just asking a question.

Irishbrewed.6537:

What class were you playing?
What’s your spec?

This is info that would help the devs who view these post better assess the situation. Honestly it does help to supply more info.

That’s not necessary, I was just curious if this was intended. I don’t want anyone nerfed, I am sure there is a way to counter such players.

If you’re rolling with a glass cannon build, then you’re going to be torn apart by pretty much any class. You need to counter such attacks by dodging or just generally be more aware of your surroundings.

It looks like you were also playing a theif, is this correct?

Einsof.1457:

Irishbrewed.6537:

What class were you playing?
What’s your spec?

This is info that would help the devs who view these post better assess the situation. Honestly it does help to supply more info.

That’s not necessary, I was just curious if this was intended. I don’t want anyone nerfed, I am sure there is a way to counter such players.

Good on you then. The thief is most definitely glass cannon prob not even repping more than 16k hp and 1.8k armor. He’d get blown up instantly in team fights. Judging from the skills he picked you off through stealth. In 8v8 its going to be prevalent do to the cluster of players itll be hard to see thieves initiating on you (You will see them go stealth or steal unto you to beginning their burst.) In smaller scale fight it becomes easier to deal with it given you know what to do to prepare for the encounter.

tl:dr yes it is intending.

Well D/D Thieves don’t have any CC, and Backstab requires stealth and is positional…

Einsof.1457:

Irishbrewed.6537:

What class were you playing?
What’s your spec?

This is info that would help the devs who view these post better assess the situation. Honestly it does help to supply more info.

That’s not necessary, I was just curious if this was intended. I don’t want anyone nerfed, I am sure there is a way to counter such players.

Wtf lmao of course it’s necessary it gives everyone context and basis for how you died so quickly, especially your build lol

Einsof.1457:

Irishbrewed.6537:

What class were you playing?
What’s your spec?

This is info that would help the devs who view these post better assess the situation. Honestly it does help to supply more info.

That’s not necessary, I was just curious if this was intended. I don’t want anyone nerfed, I am sure there is a way to counter such players.

Well we can’t say what’s “intended” and the Anet team is still working on game balance, so it’s good to ask them these questions. But you have to supply more info. It looks like you were also a theif and running a glass cannon build, in which case you will blow up pretty easy to another theif . Now is that intended? I am not sure but that’s how it’s working at the moment yes. I get hit for 3-4k with a tough build warrior so I imagine u would be hit much harder.

Well if they throw out any more “nerfs” to Thief they will just have to do a complete class resdesign unless they make it ONLY effect spvp zones. As it currently stands, the only nerf whining about any class since release have been from a minority. A minority that does not know what a Stun/CC Breaker is. A minority that does not know what Dodge is. A minority that does not roll the class they are whining about to understand the amount of set up and positioning these 1 trick ponies require.

If they send out any nerfs and it effects the whole game, they will make thief even more useless in wvwvw and make them useless in PVE.

See that guy in the comment section? Ablaze Treestump? I’ve played with him before (he’s an ele). He is a very poor looser, and instantly calls OP whenever he is killed. I should know as I have killed him several times.

When you say “working as intended”, I assume you mean burst. Yes, Thieves are supposed to be bursty, hence our Initiative points. I would even go so far as to say, if played CORRECTLY Thieves have the highest burst potential out of any class. What you’re dealing with here is a stealth Thief that relies on Backstab to burst you down. That Backstab crit wasn’t even very high. The highest I’ve ever seen was a 25k Backstab. I’m not even kidding. Before the cries of "omgz, THATZ SO OP!!!), it took immense settup and timing, not to mention that he blew all of his cooldowns in one attack. If the Thief had missed, he would be a sitting duck.

I think what people fail to realise is that there are consequences for every action a Thief takes. Just because we don’t have cooldowns doesn’t mean we don’t have to pay for our attacks.

Side note-
As a glasscannon ( which I’m assuming you are cause you only have 17k health), you should expect to get blown up very easy. That’s the tradeoff for lots of damage.

That Double Strike is OP as hell.

Dreadspectre.3456:

That Double Strike is OP as hell.

LOL.
That was pretty funny.

You don’t have to be a glasscannon to be ripped apart by a theif, 1 mistake and you are generally dead or 25% health.

Stop saying kitten like get more vit or toughness, its doesn’t make the world of difference at all.

Your best chance is to get some defensive utilities and try to get some range by dodging.
If you avoid them propperly they will waste alot of (what ever their ressource is called) and be fairly weak after that, but again, if they catch you off guard you’ll die.

And a monkey could do the same.

Otiz.3259:

If you avoid them propperly they will waste alot of (what ever their ressource is called); and be fairly weak after that, but again, if they catch you off guard you’ll die.

I’m starting to agree with whomever said it should be a bannable offense to post negatively about a class you don’t even understand.

A. If you rolled a thief to see how it works, you would KNOW what the resource system was called.

B. If you took 10 seconds, you would see the name of the resource system stated multiple times in this thread.

Knyx.5926:

Well if they throw out any more “nerfs” to Thief they will just have to do a complete class resdesign unless they make it ONLY effect spvp zones. As it currently stands, the only nerf whining about any class since release have been from a minority. A minority that does not know what a Stun/CC Breaker is. A minority that does not know what Dodge is. A minority that does not roll the class they are whining about to understand the amount of set up and positioning these 1 trick ponies require.

If they send out any nerfs and it effects the whole game, they will make thief even more useless in wvwvw and make them useless in PVE.

You speak about the difficulty of thief gameplay. I’ve tried myself and as far as it goes there is no comparaison possible with my Ele or my Necro. Don’t you think things are a little broken when 20% and rising of spvp players start playing thieves? Last game I’ve made I was the only Ele in a team full of thieves… But it can’t be because things are not balanced of course.

Most of people don’t have neither the time nor the will to set themself up for tPvP, as long as tPvP is not accessible for a mass, I don’t understant why people just speak about tPvP to support their balancing argument in most threads.

Knyx.5926:

Otiz.3259:

If you avoid them propperly they will waste alot of (what ever their ressource is called); and be fairly weak after that, but again, if they catch you off guard you’ll die.

I’m starting to agree with whomever said it should be a bannable offense to post negatively about a class you don’t even understand.

A. If you rolled a thief to see how it works, you would KNOW what the resource system was called.

B. If you took 10 seconds, you would see the name of the resource system stated multiple times in this thread.

So because I forgot it was called initiative im an idiot who should be banned? Really dude?

I suggest you get your head out of yourkitten an stop being so overly defensive. Theifs are over the top on burst capabilities and it’d be foolish to assume that the avg. Joe will be able to avoid such a nuke that’d kill a class in 2-5 sec.

Be a little critical of your own class instead of feeling like the worl is out to get you.

I agree any game where you can kill someone in less then 2 seconds is ridiculous.

because no one care about 8v8. the only thing that count is Tpvp, tourney, gvg call it how u prefer. so 8v8 is impossible to balance because of the zerg mode. 5v5 is more balanced because the maps suit better 10 players than 16.
deal with it

Do you know what a thief sacrifices to be able to do a proper glass canon backstab build? Sure they can kill you in 2 seconds but then for a minute they have no haste and essentially sitting ducks.

Shukran.4851:

because no one care about 8v8. the only thing that count is Tpvp, tourney, gvg call it how u prefer. so 8v8 is impossible to balance because of the zerg mode. 5v5 is more balanced because the maps suit better 10 players than 16.
deal with it

Just your opinion without any fact or anything to support it. If it’s true, I would like someone to explain me why they have provided a 8v8 mod, since all that matter is 5v5 why do not make the hot join pvp a 5v5 mod? Are we, casual players, forced to play in an unbalanced environement?

Thief can put out insane dmg without being glass cannon. Their teleport/stealth abilities alone will give them plenty of longevity in fights.

—starting point: wars HB followed by a ‘war burst skill’ will out dps any other class by like 4 times. Thief burst is nothing in comparison.
—Secondly If you die to a HS only thief from 100% then you need to research more on how to play, the only place a HS is worth it is when you are dying for a big finish.
—And thirdly,DD conditions thief with caltrops and pull= ahahahahah needs a nerf i play that and its sick, nuff said.

r28

To the person that said casual players are forced to play 8v8’s, I dont agree. I’m a casual player that logs on occasionally to do a tourney or two. I just wanted to let you know that you can queue for tourneys solo. I’m not trying to be rude. I didn’t know that at first so I’m trying to keep other people from making that mistake. 5v5’s are so much better.

People still crying about heartseeker when it has already been nerfed for a few dayw now. Any thief hammering the two button doesnt know what he is doing atm and is all kittened up cough cough. He is wasting his resourse and the only thing being accomplished is he is staying on top of you with his auto attack. Ooo scary.

Every class is going to have some other class they do not like. Solution is to buy enough slots to have one of each class and play them all.

Geoff.6397:

Shukran.4851:

because no one care about 8v8. the only thing that count is Tpvp, tourney, gvg call it how u prefer. so 8v8 is impossible to balance because of the zerg mode. 5v5 is more balanced because the maps suit better 10 players than 16.
deal with it

Just your opinion without any fact or anything to support it. If it’s true, I would like someone to explain me why they have provided a 8v8 mod, since all that matter is 5v5 why do not make the hot join pvp a 5v5 mod? Are we, casual players, forced to play in an unbalanced environement?

because anet said that 8v8 was for casuals to enjoy pvp and basically allow them to learn basics of the pvp in gw2.
as you can understand, pvp now is a medium size map with 3 points to capture which gives score. 5v5 means more movement and tactic/strategy, because if you hold 2 points with 2 players, you have 3 “free” players. in 8v8 u have 6 "free"players, allowing zergmode, which is impossible to balance in the same map size. as long as you are casual you should not care too much about balance because in the free time you play pvp then you go something else. balance is for the ones who play mostly pvp and want to be competitve equally against everything.

milo.6942:

17k health is pretty low, unless you have toughness to compensate, which doesn’t seem to be the case.

Pretty much this. It’s your fault if you’re glassy and can’t take a burst.

lol fine sharp tell me what other class gets that much burst from one button…still waiting

cyrealkylla.7145:

lol fine sharp tell me what other class gets that much burst from one button…still waiting

ele meteor shower does a lot of damage and it has no aoe circle on the ground.

100b warrior

blurred frenzy or duelist mesmer

guardian maybe whirling wrath

1 button pressed

cyrealkylla.7145:

lol fine sharp tell me what other class gets that much burst from one button…still waiting

you obviously have 0 clue how a thief works.

Bloodtau.4672:

milo.6942:

You could try getting more health.
See also: Toughness, And How To Not Explode When People Barely Bump Into You.

Not the issue but thanks for your useless reply anyway.

Thieves need a rebalance, full stop. No arguing against it.

A for effort, i lol’d a little bit.

Here is what people should do when they wonder about damages and post their death recap, post your traits (or just your hero stats when you hit ‘h’), then people can truly see what your toughness is, along with health and other stats.

This would give you hard proof that even though you are building sort of tanky, that you are still getting killed instantly. With proof, it would stop people from just saying “toughness bro!”.

THEN, there are other factors such as conditions (vulnerability) and boons(might and what-not on the thief), which unless you are recording your gameplay, you can’t really show too well on a forum post.

In all, post your stats along with the damage that killed you. Just posting the damage that killed you doesn’t say much.

your build + skills needs work. Thief took advantage. → working as intended

Guy probably has armor equal to wearing a towel

I can’t honestly say I have ever been defeated by a thief in a 1v1… Of course I am a thief Not to say I cannot be defeated by them, I am certain there are thieves capable of owning me. However, even on my engineer they have trouble damaging me at all. It all depends on your build, weapons, and playstyle. Chances are you are traited and runed fully into damage/crit and therefore when you get hit, you get dropped instantly. This is more your fault than the “OPness” of the thief. I did agree that heart seeker spam was dumb, and it has since been nerfed by a fairly large margin. After the nerf, a full initiative bar of heartseeker spammed on my engineer only brings me to half health. And that is without me attempting to block, or dodge the attacks at all. I can assure you that had my Engineer been hit with a backstab followed by a steal, like your screenshot shows, I would still have about 65% of my HP remaining. Just fiddle around with different builds, and find one that keeps you alive long enough to win

As a ranger i do very well against thieves… unless my CDs arent up, in which case no kiting will be able to keep the inevitable from happening ^^

Well, I didn’t want to believe all the “thief is op” posts, but I saw something that is starting to make me believe that they are. Was playing with my condition necro stacking conditions etc. and suddenly an asura thief comes up behind me and I get shot down to downed state and killed in about 2-3 seconds. I can usually hold my own against most classes, provided it’s not 2v1 or something like that and seeing this I was left staring at the screen in awe.

Phjillee.7906:

Well, I didn’t want to believe all the “thief is op” posts, but I saw it with my own eyes earlier. Was playing with my condition necro stacking conditions etc. and suddenly an asura thieves comes up behind me and I get shot down to downed state and killed in about 2-3 seconds. I can usually hold my own against most classes, provided it’s not 2v1 or something like that and seeing this I was left staring at the screen in awe.

This pic ^.

7k backstab is nothing man.

>OP runs glass cannon build
>crys when bursted down

Phjillee.7906:

Well, I didn’t want to believe all the “thief is op” posts, but I saw something that is starting to make me believe that they are. Was playing with my condition necro stacking conditions etc. and suddenly an asura thief comes up behind me and I get shot down to downed state and killed in about 2-3 seconds. I can usually hold my own against most classes, provided it’s not 2v1 or something like that and seeing this I was left staring at the screen in awe.

Now thats kitten up

low risk / high reward build. even though it takes a bit more skill to land it directly from behind, it’s still op as kitten

I can’t believe how much you bad players will argue how clicking one button for15k is balanced ON ANY LVL.

It doesn’t take any skill to click one button and deal 75% of someones life CMON stop with the nonsense, your really gonna get this entire game tanked and make it fail so you can do more dmg with a button click.

No warrior or theif should do that much dmg by pressing a button it takes ZERO skill, it’s stupid button mashing and everyone will just roll thieves and warriors.
AND IT’S ALREADY HAPPENING!

If you don’t stop with the BS and tell the DEVS (who should be smart enough to know this already)then the game will flop.

FACT: Poor class balance has killed more mmo’s then anything else. It’s why swtor, AoC, Warhammer, and Rift died in 3 months and this game will die to.

Not only is the dmg on Heartseeker unparalleled hit for hit (2 hit = 9k dmg? umm ok!) it also attacks VERY fast, LEAPS to target, and is SPAMMABLE up to 5 times without pause, and then one needs only wait LESS THAN THE NORMAL CD time on a normal class to start using it again.

A full glass cannon thief has 15k health at most, 1050 toughness at most, even less toughness if he goes for a higher health pool(acrobatics). If he goes for a higher health pool he won’t be able to stealth more than 3 secs. He can’t stealth for 3 seconds when he revealed after stealth. He is playing high risk high reward. If at any point in time he is snared he is done for.

Advice:
Snaring forces 1 of 3 things: stun break(shadow-step removes condition and stun breaks, every good thief uses it), heal, stealth which cost initiative (he needs you to hit you for this) or the use of a stealth utility skill with a 60 second cool down. It is very very difficult in my case to land a back-stab while my opponent is moving backwards(dodge to increase distance) and turning in a circle away from the closest angle which my opponent sees me(this should cut the thief’s damage is half as thieves do more damage from behind or the sides). When the Thief reveals himself go from 1-5. He should be around 25% health or dead. Switch weapon set repeat process.

This is meant for whoever is having a hard time against back-stab thieves. I am not ignoring the fact that it does high damage which it does do. It is however easy to counter in tournaments because everyone carries some type off cc. I hope this was helpful and informative.