Guild Wars 2

General
Runes
1. Nightmare Rune- add animation, cast time, and buff icon for the passive fear. Reduce the fear duration.
2. Hoebrak Rune- Reduce Might Duration.
3. Tone down Celestial Amulet slightly.

Elementalist
1. Re-balance the Healing Power scale with Water Attunement Heals.
2. Remove 1 Blast Finisher from D/D weapon set.
3. Fix Lighting Whip bug abusing.
4. Reduce the accessibility to Vigor, Protection, and Regeneration.
5. Tone Down the burning duration from Dragon Breath (or increase the skill cool-down)
6. Tone Down the Ring of Fire Duration.

Engineer
1. Add cast time and animation to Over-Charged Shot. Reduce the Knock-back range and duration. Reduce punishment for Engineer itself.
2. Increase Gear Shield Cool-down.
3. Re-balance the Power Stats scale with Pry Bar, Throw Wrench.
4. Decrease Cripple duration from Box of Nails.
5. Magnet visible while in Stealth effect.
6. Add a buff icon when Incendiary Powder is ready.

Necromancer
1. Add obvious animation to Dark Path.
2.Add Different animation to Staff Mark skills.

Mesmer
1. Fix Spatial Surge bug abusing.

Warrior
1. Fix Warhorn Skills after-cast canceling. (Although the skill itself shouldn’t have any after-cast, might be a bug or intended)

Ranger, Thief, Guardian
In a good spot.

Yes

Guardian not mentioned = buff Guardian

Agree.

/15 charr

Nah ha, you edited I saw that, you did’t had Guardian at “In a good spot” before.

creepmatic.9435:

Nah ha, you edited I saw that, you did’t had Guardian at “In a good spot” before.

Lol, guardians are forever “in a good spot.” xD

Kako.1930:

creepmatic.9435:

Nah ha, you edited I saw that, you did’t had Guardian at “In a good spot” before.

Lol, guardians are forever “in a good spot.” xD

No.

Love these ideas. If I was in charge, and perhaps there is a reason I’m not, I would balance cele engie by reducing some of the rifle dps, this would also bring turret engie back a little.

The burn on cele ele…is not that bad imo except for the duration after walking through ring of fire. If that was brought down from like 5(or whatever it is) to 3, it would be just fine.

Anastasis.7258:

General
Runes
1. Nightmare Rune- add animation, cast time, and buff icon for the passive fear. Reduce the fear duration.
2. Hoebrak Rune- Reduce Might Duration.
3. Tone down Celestial Amulet slightly.

Elementalist
1. Re-balance the Healing Power scale with Water Attunement Heals.
2. Remove 1 Blast Finisher from D/D weapon set.
3. Fix Lighting Whip bug abusing.
4. Reduce the accessibility for Vigor and Regeneration.
5. Tone Down the burning duration from Dragon Breath (or increase the skill cool-down)
6. Tone Down the Ring of Fire Duration.

Engineer
1. Add cast time and animation to Over-Charged Shot. Reduce the Knock-back range and duration. Reduce punishment for Engineer itself.
2. Increase Gear Shield Cool-down.
3. Re-balance the Skill base damage on Pry Bar, Throw Wrench.
4. Decrease Cripple duration from Box of Nails.
5. Magnet visible while in Stealth effect.
6. Add a buff icon when Incendiary Powder is ready.

Necromancer
1. Add obvious animation to Dark Path.
2.Add Different animation to Staff Mark skills.

Mesmer
1. Fix Spatial Surge bug abusing.

Warrior
1. Fix Warhorn Skills after-cast canceling. (Although the skill itself shouldn’t have any after-cast, might be a bug or intended)

Ranger, Thief, Guardian
In a good spot.

Yea celestial shout warrior is balanced….. KAPPAAAAAa

Mike.4830:

Anastasis.7258:

General
Runes
1. Nightmare Rune- add animation, cast time, and buff icon for the passive fear. Reduce the fear duration.
2. Hoebrak Rune- Reduce Might Duration.
3. Tone down Celestial Amulet slightly.

Elementalist
1. Re-balance the Healing Power scale with Water Attunement Heals.
2. Remove 1 Blast Finisher from D/D weapon set.
3. Fix Lighting Whip bug abusing.
4. Reduce the accessibility for Vigor and Regeneration.
5. Tone Down the burning duration from Dragon Breath (or increase the skill cool-down)
6. Tone Down the Ring of Fire Duration.

Engineer
1. Add cast time and animation to Over-Charged Shot. Reduce the Knock-back range and duration. Reduce punishment for Engineer itself.
2. Increase Gear Shield Cool-down.
3. Re-balance the Skill base damage on Pry Bar, Throw Wrench.
4. Decrease Cripple duration from Box of Nails.
5. Magnet visible while in Stealth effect.
6. Add a buff icon when Incendiary Powder is ready.

Necromancer
1. Add obvious animation to Dark Path.
2.Add Different animation to Staff Mark skills.

Mesmer
1. Fix Spatial Surge bug abusing.

Warrior
1. Fix Warhorn Skills after-cast canceling. (Although the skill itself shouldn’t have any after-cast, might be a bug or intended)

Ranger, Thief, Guardian
In a good spot.

Yea celestial shout warrior is balanced….. KAPPAAAAAa

Was just about to post that he is missing warrior lol. So let me add something:

Warrior: Longbow f1 must actually hit a person to proc cleansing ire. You can no longer just cast it on the ground and remove 3 condis.

Theres also some sigil nerfing that needs to be done here but otherwise this is pretty good for balancing class wise.

Anastasis.7258:

Ranger
In a good spot.

bruh. For your other suggestions, I’m not nearly esports enough to know how to balance the other classes, but ranger is not in a good place, as all their builds suck comparatively to other classes.

Spirits? I think they could kill the ICD on all of them and just make it, 1sec burn, 1sec prot, 2sec swift, and 15% dmg increase per proc. Or something else along the lines of “more buff uptime” because 2s burn/3s prot per 10 seconds is just bad to me. Also, spirits need some aoe-spam protection, jus some though

Condi? It duels on sidepoints well enough but every other condi-centric class (Engi’s, necros) is aoe condi spam, rangers is mostly single target. That and how engis and necros have way more cc, granted necros has mediocre-ish escaping utility.

Power? So LB/gs zerk pewpews right? Their basically long-range thiefs without the mobility, or mesmers without the portal, or freshair eles without the minor support from attunements/aoe stuff. Basically, LB rangers don’t have anything to offer besides burst, which every other zerk thing can do while giving some form of support

all in all, to me, rangers lack some form of party support/party play, which hurts the more organized your pvp’ing is

Bunker Guard is in a good spot, the only why it got pushed out of the meta is because of cele ele. Bunker Guard is exactly how a bunker class should be. Great support and sustain, with little to no damage. Also excels at teamfights rather than 1vX situation. However, there’s really no reason for this since ele can do it all plus damage to boot.

DPS guard on the other hand is still underwhelming. Yes, it works great at low and mid tiers, but lets face it, anything can work there. However, at higher tier there is no reason to take a dps guard. It lacks mobility, has some of the most predictable and easiest to read burst, and it’s a melee heavy class that lacks soft CCs. Only thing nice about dps Guard is it has better sustain than most dps builds.

You forgot buff gadgets!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Mike.4830:

Anastasis.7258:

General
Runes
1. Nightmare Rune- add animation, cast time, and buff icon for the passive fear. Reduce the fear duration.
2. Hoebrak Rune- Reduce Might Duration.
3. Tone down Celestial Amulet slightly.

Elementalist
1. Re-balance the Healing Power scale with Water Attunement Heals.
2. Remove 1 Blast Finisher from D/D weapon set.
3. Fix Lighting Whip bug abusing.
4. Reduce the accessibility for Vigor and Regeneration.
5. Tone Down the burning duration from Dragon Breath (or increase the skill cool-down)
6. Tone Down the Ring of Fire Duration.

Engineer
1. Add cast time and animation to Over-Charged Shot. Reduce the Knock-back range and duration. Reduce punishment for Engineer itself.
2. Increase Gear Shield Cool-down.
3. Re-balance the Skill base damage on Pry Bar, Throw Wrench.
4. Decrease Cripple duration from Box of Nails.
5. Magnet visible while in Stealth effect.
6. Add a buff icon when Incendiary Powder is ready.

Necromancer
1. Add obvious animation to Dark Path.
2.Add Different animation to Staff Mark skills.

Mesmer
1. Fix Spatial Surge bug abusing.

Warrior
1. Fix Warhorn Skills after-cast canceling. (Although the skill itself shouldn’t have any after-cast, might be a bug or intended)

Ranger, Thief, Guardian
In a good spot.

Yea celestial shout warrior is balanced….. KAPPAAAAAa

“Tone down celestial amulet slightly”, “Fix Skill after-cast”

Don’t worry I’m not a guy who try to protect their own class. In fact warrior received the most nerfs in 2014 because of me.

You want to add counter plays to stuff? Fine. But the biggest thing with no counter play and no skill to use is fire and air sigil procs which occur on auto attacks….. How do you dodge auto attacks?

The cooldown needs to be larger or the damage less.

Can’t really take any list seriously which doesn’t address this issue. Its pretty frustrating to die to 6k auto attacks. The skill level to use this is actually zero and the ability to avoid it is 0 too.

Uh. Lol. You are seeking to neuter engineer. Why?

Mike.4830:

Yea celestial shout warrior is balanced….. KAPPAAAAAa

I dunno, I don’t think Shout Warrior would be very good in a burst meta. In my experience it’s exceedingly easy to kill 2v1, unlike ele/engi. In fact, the only power damage mitigation it has really is two dodges and a 6 second weakness on horn.

I think of Shoutbow as a build that is only in this meta in order to counter the sustain and trash condis that ele/engi are throwing around.

Anastasis.7258:

General
Runes
1. Nightmare Rune- add animation, cast time, and buff icon for the passive fear. Reduce the fear duration.
2. Hoebrak Rune- Reduce Might Duration.
3. Tone down Celestial Amulet slightly.

Elementalist
1. Re-balance the Healing Power scale with Water Attunement Heals.
2. Remove 1 Blast Finisher from D/D weapon set.
3. Fix Lighting Whip bug abusing.
4. Reduce the accessibility for Vigor and Regeneration.
5. Tone Down the burning duration from Dragon Breath (or increase the skill cool-down)
6. Tone Down the Ring of Fire Duration.

Engineer
1. Add cast time and animation to Over-Charged Shot. Reduce the Knock-back range and duration. Reduce punishment for Engineer itself.
2. Increase Gear Shield Cool-down.
3. Re-balance the Skill base damage on Pry Bar, Throw Wrench.
4. Decrease Cripple duration from Box of Nails.
5. Magnet visible while in Stealth effect.
6. Add a buff icon when Incendiary Powder is ready.

Necromancer
1. Add obvious animation to Dark Path.
2.Add Different animation to Staff Mark skills.

Mesmer
1. Fix Spatial Surge bug abusing.

Warrior
1. Fix Warhorn Skills after-cast canceling. (Although the skill itself shouldn’t have any after-cast, might be a bug or intended)

Ranger, Thief, Guardian
In a good spot.

Err,

Thief
1. Add LoS to steal teleport.
2. 1s CD to evade skills after evade skill is used (if not all skills).
3. Dazes/Stuns hit through evades
4. Nerf consume plasma

~Signed
Mesmer.

All great balance suggestions!

Here’s my suggestions, slightly modified from the other thread (similar in a lot of ways to Tarcis’s suggestions):

General
Amulets
Celestial amulet: -20 to each stat (-140 stats total).
Runes
Nightmare runes – (6) Fear lasts 1s instead of 2s.
Balthazar runes – (6) Cooldown of AoE burn on heal is 30s instead of 10s.
Sigils
Might from Battle Sigil lasts for 15s instead of 20s.
Blast Finishers
Might from Flame Blast finishers last for 15s instead of 20s.

Engineer
Gear shield cd is 25s instead of 20s.
Magnet lines should be visible from stealth if possible.
Slick shoes – utility skill is 60s cd instead of 45, toolbelt skill is 40s instead of 30s.
Poison Grenades are blockable.
Incendiary Powder burning lasts 2s instead of 4s.
Overcharge shot has a tell animation and a cast time of 0.5s instead of instant and the self-cc is reduced in distance and duration by 50% each.
Magnetic Shield lasts 2s instead of 3s.

Elementalist
Lightning whip cannot be cancelled.
Drake’s Breath deals 2s of burning per hit instead of 3s.
Cleansing Water has a cd of 5s instead of 0s.

Necromancer
Reaper’s Protection fear lasts 1s instead of 2s.
Dark Path has a tell animation.
Doom fear lasts 1s regardless of range.

Thief
Choking Gas is blockable.

Guardian
Shield of Absorption can be used while moving and lasts the full duration if not cancelled (4s).

I think the above changes would be a good starting point and see how things go for a few weeks after that. Mesmer and Guardian are pretty close to being viable on a team, just a few taps to the other classes balance-wise would bring them back pretty quickly. It’s clear Ranger needs a little bit of help, but it’s not super clear to me in what way they need it. Something that would help them in a teamfight respect, probably.

I’m glad OP isn’t a developer. This list is just silly. Adding a UI element doesn’t get rid of passive play. No nerfs to Sigil of Battle or other overpowered sigils.

Anastasis.7258:

Necromancer
1. Add obvious animation to Dark Path.
2.Add Different animation to Staff Mark skills.

Based on that.
you have no idea what you are talking about.

reading the rest. I am going to assume that you play either a Ranger, Guardian or Thief. And although I agree with you more or less that they are in a “OK” spot. Are you trying to nerf the rest of the classes into oblivion?

cymerdown.4103:

Here’s my suggestions, slightly modified from the other thread (similar in a lot of ways to Tarcis’s suggestions):

General
Amulets
Celestial amulet: -20 to each stat (-140 stats total).
Runes
Nightmare runes – (6) Fear lasts 1s instead of 2s.
Balthazar runes – (6) Cooldown of AoE burn on heal is 30s instead of 10s.
Sigils
Might from Battle Sigil lasts for 15s instead of 20s.
Blast Finishers
Might from Flame Blast finishers last for 15s instead of 20s.

Engineer
Gear shield cd is 25s instead of 20s.
Magnet lines should be visible from stealth if possible.
Slick shoes – utility skill is 60s cd instead of kitten , toolbelt skill is 40s instead of 30s.
Poison Grenades are blockable.
Incendiary Powder burning lasts 2s instead of 4s.
Overcharge shot has a tell animation and a cast time of 0.5s instead of instant and the self-cc is reduced in distance and duration by 50% each.
Magnetic Shield lasts 2s instead of 3s.

Elementalist
Lightning whip cannot be cancelled.
Drake’s Breath deals 2s of burning per hit instead of 3s.
Cleansing Water has a cd of 5s instead of 0s.

Necromancer
Reaper’s Protection fear lasts 1s instead of 2s.
Dark Path has a tell animation.
Doom fear lasts 1s regardless of range.

Guardian
Shield of Absorption can be used while moving and lasts the full duration if not cancelled (4s).

That nerf on ele will never happen since renerfing that trait will completely destroy it

Anastasis.7258:

Anastasis.7258:

General
Runes

Necromancer
1. Add obvious animation to Dark Path.
2.Add Different animation to Staff Mark skills.

Based on that.
you have no idea what you are talking about.

reading the rest. I am going to assume that you play either a Ranger, Guardian or Thief. And although I agree with you more or less that they are in a “OK” spot. Are you trying to nerf the rest of the classes into oblivion?

he plays warrior (and is probably the best on NA) and knows exactly what he’s talking about

Ropechef.6192:

Anastasis.7258:

Necromancer
1. Add obvious animation to Dark Path.
2.Add Different animation to Staff Mark skills.

Based on that.
you have no idea what you are talking about.

reading the rest. I am going to assume that you play either a Ranger, Guardian or Thief. And although I agree with you more or less that they are in a “OK” spot. Are you trying to nerf the rest of the classes into oblivion?

Animations that are actually different and readable isn’t crazy at all. The changes to those classes get rid of the bull kitten that makes them the best in the game and squanders the builds that are great but harder to use.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Ropechef.6192:

Anastasis.7258:

Necromancer
1. Add obvious animation to Dark Path.
2.Add Different animation to Staff Mark skills.

Based on that.
you have no idea what you are talking about.

reading the rest. I am going to assume that you play either a Ranger, Guardian or Thief. And although I agree with you more or less that they are in a “OK” spot. Are you trying to nerf the rest of the classes into oblivion?

Animations that are actually different and readable isn’t crazy at all. The changes to those classes get rid of the bull kitten that makes them the best in the game and squanders the builds that are great but harder to use.

so the large claw flying at your head is not obvious enough?

the over emphasized dramatical arm wave is not obvious enough for counterplay?

I will Gladly Stand to be corrected. On any one of the points. Including the knowledge and ability of the original poster.

None the less, personally am just tired of everyone and their dog trying to nerf something or another. Why don’t we try giving out some buffs to things??

Ropechef.6192:

Anastasis.7258:

Necromancer
1. Add obvious animation to Dark Path.
2.Add Different animation to Staff Mark skills.

Based on that.
you have no idea what you are talking about.

reading the rest. I am going to assume that you play either a Ranger, Guardian or Thief. And although I agree with you more or less that they are in a “OK” spot. Are you trying to nerf the rest of the classes into oblivion?

You are dumb. An animation change wouldn’t even hurt, I don’t know why you’re so worked up about a change like that.

Maybe you miss dark path fear 24/7 because you have no clue how to bait out dodges on a braindead easy class.

Just stop posting, resorting to ad hominem already just because you don’t know how much of a slap to the wrist this change is on practice. You’re just so bad.

Booms.2594:

That nerf on ele will never happen since renerfing that trait will completely destroy it

Nah I doubt it, they just definitely have a little too much condi clear at the moment. I’d also be fine with them having to lose that trait and take Generosity instead of Doom or something.

cymerdown.4103:

Booms.2594:

That nerf on ele will never happen since renerfing that trait will completely destroy it

Nah I doubt it, they just definitely have a little too much condi clear at the moment. I’d also be fine with them having to lose that trait and take Generosity instead of Doom or something.

Warriors can have more.

So why aren’t people proposing nerfs on their condi clear?

Removing condi clear is the stupidest possible nerf you could propose. Condi meta would be 100x worse than Cele meta.

After OP’s nerfs: 3 Shout Warriors per team

SobeSoul.6910:

cymerdown.4103:

Booms.2594:

That nerf on ele will never happen since renerfing that trait will completely destroy it

Nah I doubt it, they just definitely have a little too much condi clear at the moment. I’d also be fine with them having to lose that trait and take Generosity instead of Doom or something.

Warriors can have more.

So why aren’t people proposing nerfs on their condi clear?

Removing condi clear is the stupidest possible nerf you could propose. Condi meta would be 100x worse than Cele meta.

The shout build is much more defensive than d/d ele, though. A warrior with those traits and soldier runes puts out an extremely low amount of pressure compared to an ele, it’s like comparing apples and oranges to be honest.

We’re already in a condi meta, honestly. The rest of my changes nerf the strongest condi classes, so ele’s clears can also stand a small nerf. It won’t wreck the class.

Chaith.8256:

After OP’s nerfs: 3 Shout Warriors per team

Cool, bringing my zerker team! :P

cymerdown.4103:

SobeSoul.6910:

cymerdown.4103:

Booms.2594:

That nerf on ele will never happen since renerfing that trait will completely destroy it

Nah I doubt it, they just definitely have a little too much condi clear at the moment. I’d also be fine with them having to lose that trait and take Generosity instead of Doom or something.

Warriors can have more.

So why aren’t people proposing nerfs on their condi clear?

Removing condi clear is the stupidest possible nerf you could propose. Condi meta would be 100x worse than Cele meta.

The shout build is much more defensive than d/d ele, though. A warrior with those traits and soldier runes puts out an extremely low amount of pressure compared to an ele, it’s like comparing apples and oranges to be honest.

We’re already in a condi meta, honestly. The rest of my changes nerf the strongest condi classes, so ele’s clears can also stand a small nerf. It won’t wreck the class.

We are hardly in a condi meta. Start stripping condi cleanses from classes and you will see what a condi meta is. Most of the obnoxious condi builds aren’t playable in spvp and it is good that way.

Rabid engi and carrion necro are about as condi-heavy as you get in this game. I played after the dhuumfire patch so I know what a condi meta is. The meta celestial amulet builds do get a lot of their damage from condi overload. Anyways, just that tweak to that trait won’t ruin ele, so don’t worry. It’d equate to about 1 less cleanse every 30 seconds or something on average, adding a Generosity sigil or Energy sigil to the build would compensate for that and then some. Just making the ele have to choose between defensive and offensive options so they don’t have the current option of “both” is a good thing.

cymerdown.4103:

The shout build is much more defensive than d/d ele, though. A warrior with those traits and soldier runes puts out an extremely low amount of pressure compared to an ele, it’s like comparing apples and oranges to be honest.

We’re already in a condi meta, honestly. The rest of my changes nerf the strongest condi classes, so ele’s clears can also stand a small nerf. It won’t wreck the class.

I think that the Shout Warrior is very comparable to the D/D Ele in playstyle. They run for maximum sustain, and both pack in the neighbourhood of 30 condition removals per minute.

Cross profession comparisons are for sure, apples and oranges. Despite both Cele builds having a similar trait spread & identical roles, there are many things that both professions do better.

IE:

• 1v1 Survivability – Edge: Evidence inconclusive, No Cele Ele or Cele War has died yet.
• 1vX Survivability – Edge: Cele Ele.
• Damage Output – Edge: Cele Ele.
• Allied Support – Edge: Cele War.
• Revive Utility – Edge: Cele War.

Cele War does some things better than the Cele Ele, and vice versa. I think the damage gap is not as big as it’s sometimes perceived, either… Cele War takes advantages of Sigils better, proccing twice as many sigils as Ele can, bringing Geomancy and Energy/Leeching to the table in addition to Battle/Doom. Wars having just as consistent burning, on point, and does comparable power damage to the Ele. Arcing arrow and Final Thrust do some fat damage with 25 might stacks.

The balance could shift either way. If Ele & Engi gets 6 nerfs each I think War will be too good. The goal is for everyone to be nerfed enough to not be an easy pick over Ranger/Guardian/Mesmer. Warrior is still a far superior pick in the point-holder role that Ranger/Guardian also compete for, sorry, but if the celestial Ele/Engi is going down, Shout Warrior is going down with it.

The first reasonable list on skill changes I agree with, knowing the obvious logic of anet, this will never happen.
(it’s been 2 years right? and the competitive scene left b4 tourny tickets left (3-4 months when the game released, a large influx of players quit pvp))

enjoy being delusional when 200 viewers = successful gw2 streamer

when card games (hearthstone) bring 20, 15, 10, 8, 7, 3, 3, 2, 1k viewers daily. (and they donate)

my message isn’t directed towards OP, but just the community in general, it’s time to wake up.

Vee Wee suggested literally almost all of these changes 8 months ago! Nobody listened then! Nobody will listen now! Good luck my frand!

PS Happy New Year frands!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

ArrDee.2573:

Vee Wee suggested literally almost all of these changes 8 months ago! Nobody listened then! Nobody will listen now! Good luck my frand!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

ahead of the logic curve when it was needed

Chaith.8256:

cymerdown.4103:

The shout build is much more defensive than d/d ele, though. A warrior with those traits and soldier runes puts out an extremely low amount of pressure compared to an ele, it’s like comparing apples and oranges to be honest.

We’re already in a condi meta, honestly. The rest of my changes nerf the strongest condi classes, so ele’s clears can also stand a small nerf. It won’t wreck the class.

I think that the Shout Warrior is very comparable to the D/D Ele in playstyle. They run for maximum sustain, and both pack in the neighbourhood of 30 condition removals per minute.

Cross profession comparisons are for sure, apples and oranges. Despite both Cele builds having a similar trait spread & identical roles, there are many things that both professions do better.

IE:

• 1v1 Survivability – Edge: Evidence inconclusive, No Cele Ele or Cele War has died yet.
• 1vX Survivability – Edge: Cele Ele.
• Damage Output – Edge: Cele Ele.
• Allied Support – Edge: Cele War.
• Revive Utility – Edge: Cele War.

Cele War does some things better than the Cele Ele, and vice versa. I think the damage gap is not as big as it’s sometimes perceived, either… Cele War takes advantages of Sigils better, proccing twice as many sigils as Ele can, bringing Geomancy and Energy/Leeching to the table in addition to Battle/Doom. Wars having just as consistent burning, on point, and does comparable power damage to the Ele. Arcing arrow and Final Thrust do some fat damage with 25 might stacks.

The balance could shift either way. If Ele & Engi gets 6 nerfs each I think War will be too good. The goal is for everyone to be nerfed enough to not be an easy pick over Ranger/Guardian/Mesmer. Warrior is still a far superior pick in the point-holder role that Ranger/Guardian also compete for, sorry, but if the celestial Ele/Engi is going down, Shout Warrior is going down with it.

“Tone Down Celestial Amulet Slightly”, “Fix After-Cast Canceling”<- read it please.
If you really want to compare the metas I’ll do it for you here.

Shoutbow warrior is way more balance than DD Ele.
No Protection, no Regeneration, no Stability, no blink.
Shoutbow warrior has to pick up “Soldier Rune” and “Warhorn” to have a comparable condi cleanse with DD Ele.

Shoutbow warrior has to pick up “Warhorn” to have a comparable mobility and vigor with DD Ele. “Sadly the mobility is not even close to DD ele”

Shoutbow warrior has to use 3 Utilities slots to have a comparable sustain with DD Eles. And in fact it’s not even comparable because we cannot access to protect on demand, and access to stability. We don’t have teleport/blink. When we get cc chain, we are done. We don’t have 16 sec CD block, we don’t have stability, we don’t have super speed, we don’t have aoe cripple to kite. All we have is 1 20 seconds stunbreaker, and 1 aoe fears, and that’s what we get by trading 2 free utilities slots when there are way better options in utility skills.

Shoutbow warrior is 10x harder to survive and disengage in a 1v2 compare to DD Ele. (Test by yourself if you don’t trust me)

In opposite what did DD Ele sacrificed to make themselves have everything in this game? You tell me.

Let’s face it, the reason why I have more lists on Engi and Ele because that means they have more balance issues in this game than any other classes.

For me, the best way to nerf Shoutbow warrior is to tone down Celestial Amulet, which I did listed it on my list.

And keep that in mind, those are not 6 nerf, those are 6 balance changes.
Like I said, I’m not protecting my own class, for me I’m just thinking shoutbow warrior’s opness isn’t comparable with Cele Engi and Cele Eles. They only requires 1 balance change to make this build totally nerfed.

Please stop protecting your own class, so we can make this game better.

Shoutbow happens to be a bad build for warrior that shouldn’t be balanced around.

Chaith.8256:

cymerdown.4103:

The shout build is much more defensive than d/d ele, though. A warrior with those traits and soldier runes puts out an extremely low amount of pressure compared to an ele, it’s like comparing apples and oranges to be honest.

We’re already in a condi meta, honestly. The rest of my changes nerf the strongest condi classes, so ele’s clears can also stand a small nerf. It won’t wreck the class.

I think that the Shout Warrior is very comparable to the D/D Ele in playstyle. They run for maximum sustain, and both pack in the neighbourhood of 30 condition removals per minute.

Cross profession comparisons are for sure, apples and oranges. Despite both Cele builds having a similar trait spread & identical roles, there are many things that both professions do better.

IE:

• 1v1 Survivability – Edge: Evidence inconclusive, No Cele Ele or Cele War has died yet.
• 1vX Survivability – Edge: Cele Ele.
• Damage Output – Edge: Cele Ele.
• Allied Support – Edge: Cele War.
• Revive Utility – Edge: Cele War.

Cele War does some things better than the Cele Ele, and vice versa. I think the damage gap is not as big as it’s sometimes perceived, either… Cele War takes advantages of Sigils better, proccing twice as many sigils as Ele can, bringing Geomancy and Energy/Leeching to the table in addition to Battle/Doom. Wars having just as consistent burning, on point, and does comparable power damage to the Ele. Arcing arrow and Final Thrust do some fat damage with 25 might stacks.

The balance could shift either way. If Ele & Engi gets 6 nerfs each I think War will be too good. The goal is for everyone to be nerfed enough to not be an easy pick over Ranger/Guardian/Mesmer. Warrior is still a far superior pick in the point-holder role that Ranger/Guardian also compete for, sorry, but if the celestial Ele/Engi is going down, Shout Warrior is going down with it.

Kinda. Warrior, at least shoutbow right now, can get chain CC’d and can’t simply walk away from focus fire. This is why Ele can be more braindead than Warrior, cause the Warrior meta build right now is super risky and borderline a class that always was risky except for when hambow was good. Ele can always stomp much better because their stun breaks have always been stupidly strong.

Shoutbow right now is just an inferior version of ele really. It’s much harder to make plays as shout bows because their stun breaks aren’t as good as ele.

Ele can literally sustain their team mates while having way too much stability and stun breaks, warrior on the other hand does not have access to this kind of brokenness.

ArrDee.2573:

Vee Wee suggested literally almost all of these changes 8 months ago! Nobody listened then! Nobody will listen now! Good luck my frand!

PS Happy New Year frands!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

lol sad but true

Harbinger.8637:

ArrDee.2573:

Vee Wee suggested literally almost all of these changes 8 months ago! Nobody listened then! Nobody will listen now! Good luck my frand!

PS Happy New Year frands!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

lol sad but true

recurring theme on people (person?) “defending the same point”

a t s e.9614:

Amir.1570:

Chaith.8256:

cymerdown.4103:

The shout build is much more defensive than d/d ele, though. A warrior with those traits and soldier runes puts out an extremely low amount of pressure compared to an ele, it’s like comparing apples and oranges to be honest.

We’re already in a condi meta, honestly. The rest of my changes nerf the strongest condi classes, so ele’s clears can also stand a small nerf. It won’t wreck the class.

I think that the Shout Warrior is very comparable to the D/D Ele in playstyle. They run for maximum sustain, and both pack in the neighbourhood of 30 condition removals per minute.

Cross profession comparisons are for sure, apples and oranges. Despite both Cele builds having a similar trait spread & identical roles, there are many things that both professions do better.

IE:

• 1v1 Survivability – Edge: Evidence inconclusive, No Cele Ele or Cele War has died yet.
• 1vX Survivability – Edge: Cele Ele.
• Damage Output – Edge: Cele Ele.
• Allied Support – Edge: Cele War.
• Revive Utility – Edge: Cele War.

Cele War does some things better than the Cele Ele, and vice versa. I think the damage gap is not as big as it’s sometimes perceived, either… Cele War takes advantages of Sigils better, proccing twice as many sigils as Ele can, bringing Geomancy and Energy/Leeching to the table in addition to Battle/Doom. Wars having just as consistent burning, on point, and does comparable power damage to the Ele. Arcing arrow and Final Thrust do some fat damage with 25 might stacks.

The balance could shift either way. If Ele & Engi gets 6 nerfs each I think War will be too good. The goal is for everyone to be nerfed enough to not be an easy pick over Ranger/Guardian/Mesmer. Warrior is still a far superior pick in the point-holder role that Ranger/Guardian also compete for, sorry, but if the celestial Ele/Engi is going down, Shout Warrior is going down with it.

Kinda. Warrior, at least shoutbow right now, can get chain CC’d and can’t simply walk away from focus fire. This is why Ele can be more braindead than Warrior, cause the Warrior meta build right now is super risky and borderline a class that always was risky except for when hambow was good. Ele can always stomp much better because their stun breaks have always been stupidly strong.

Shoutbow right now is just an inferior version of ele really. It’s much harder to make plays as shout bows because their stun breaks aren’t as good as ele.

Ele can literally sustain their team mates while having way too much stability and stun breaks, warrior on the other hand does not have access to this kind of brokenness.

Shoutbow is not high risk and much easier to play than the old hambow that had less sustain. In fact shoutbow warr is easiest of all cele builds if you exclude the crate from engineers.

So wait until you get chain CC’d by a competent team. You’ll cry, cause you’re just that casual

Amir.1570:

Chaith.8256:

cymerdown.4103:

The shout build is much more defensive than d/d ele, though. A warrior with those traits and soldier runes puts out an extremely low amount of pressure compared to an ele, it’s like comparing apples and oranges to be honest.

We’re already in a condi meta, honestly. The rest of my changes nerf the strongest condi classes, so ele’s clears can also stand a small nerf. It won’t wreck the class.

I think that the Shout Warrior is very comparable to the D/D Ele in playstyle. They run for maximum sustain, and both pack in the neighbourhood of 30 condition removals per minute.

Cross profession comparisons are for sure, apples and oranges. Despite both Cele builds having a similar trait spread & identical roles, there are many things that both professions do better.

IE:

• 1v1 Survivability – Edge: Evidence inconclusive, No Cele Ele or Cele War has died yet.
• 1vX Survivability – Edge: Cele Ele.
• Damage Output – Edge: Cele Ele.
• Allied Support – Edge: Cele War.
• Revive Utility – Edge: Cele War.

Cele War does some things better than the Cele Ele, and vice versa. I think the damage gap is not as big as it’s sometimes perceived, either… Cele War takes advantages of Sigils better, proccing twice as many sigils as Ele can, bringing Geomancy and Energy/Leeching to the table in addition to Battle/Doom. Wars having just as consistent burning, on point, and does comparable power damage to the Ele. Arcing arrow and Final Thrust do some fat damage with 25 might stacks.

The balance could shift either way. If Ele & Engi gets 6 nerfs each I think War will be too good. The goal is for everyone to be nerfed enough to not be an easy pick over Ranger/Guardian/Mesmer. Warrior is still a far superior pick in the point-holder role that Ranger/Guardian also compete for, sorry, but if the celestial Ele/Engi is going down, Shout Warrior is going down with it.

Kinda. Warrior, at least shoutbow right now, can get chain CC’d and can’t simply walk away from focus fire. This is why Ele can be more braindead than Warrior, cause the Warrior meta build right now is super risky and borderline a class that always was risky except for when hambow was good. Ele can always stomp much better because their stun breaks have always been stupidly strong.

Shoutbow right now is just an inferior version of ele really. It’s much harder to make plays as shout bows because their stun breaks aren’t as good as ele.

Ele can literally sustain their team mates while having way too much stability and stun breaks, warrior on the other hand does not have access to this kind of brokenness.

Wat?

Ele has 7.75s of stab every 75s which happens to be its stunbreak. Blink and Cleansing Fire aren’t stunbreaks. The other stunbreaks are Signet of Air and Arcane shield but aren’t really worth using on the D/D build much.

Warrior does have access to more brokenness than that.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sF-t;1NKkN0_4cLVQ0;9;6JTJ;418-18B37-TwG6R;1CoF2CoF25H

Two Stun Breaks. Same stab as ele on shorter CD. Immob, Cripple, and Chill are pretty much cleared instantly. Conversion of condis to boons. Vigor. Roughly same armor as eles and engies but with Zerk amulet, but you have 6k more HP than ele, and 2k more than engie.

I’m not lying when I say shoutbow isn’t the best build. It has damage on it that is kiteable. Whereas if you take out LB for Hammer you can be a bruiser with the best of them. You still retain a pretty decent amount of condi clear. You also have access to better CC.

Good suggestions.

As we’re making new balance threads every other day, I’ll drop my suggestion here too.

Make it so that we have a little ‘skillbar’ for rune and sigil procs which you can use manually. You can also add an animation then. If you decide to reimplement a global cooldown (to balance air/fire procs), it’ll be visible and you’ll be able to chose which one to use first. This game could use a higher (mechanical) skill ceiling.
Less RNG, less passives. ——> more counterplay, more options.

AS it turns out and rethinking stuff.

I want to offer my apologies to Anastasis for calling out on a personal level what should be kept otherwise.

I also need to thank Amir for calling me out as a fool.

In the interest of this discussion.

Those that know a lot more than I do. And a lot of you know a heck of a lot more than I do. Can you explain to me and to the unwashed masses why these changes would work or not. I personally cannot see them beyond them being changes for the sake of change. Now I know I am missing something, could you explain it to me?

I Play Necromancer In PvP. The proposed changes to the Necro skills seem redundant. As landing Dark Path is often tricky at best. And I already have many knowledgeable opponents dodging marks.

I don’t play Elementalist, Or Engineer. I am just not seeing how any of these alterations would change how I play against them?

So if you would be so kind could you educate the dungeon running PvE scrub.

It isn’t hard to count a shoutbow’s dodges and it isn’t hard to understand that they only have 1 stun break.

L2P already people, Warrior being braindead is a thing of the past. Warrior takes skill now.
L2P, just please.

Ropechef.6192:

Anastasis.7258:

Necromancer
1. Add obvious animation to Dark Path.
2.Add Different animation to Staff Mark skills.

Based on that.
you have no idea what you are talking about.

reading the rest. I am going to assume that you play either a Ranger, Guardian or Thief. And although I agree with you more or less that they are in a “OK” spot. Are you trying to nerf the rest of the classes into oblivion?

Dude, Mark 4 is the most OP kitten out there with the same animation as almost every other marks.

I main a ranger, and would like to see something along the lines of:

longbow:

Lower the range of point blank shot from 900 to 300.
increase cd to 20s (untraited) but increase dmg by 5-10%. make it a Blast finisher, rather than proj finisher.

Increase cooldown on rapid fire from 10s (untraited) to 15s
Lower Barrage cooldown from 30s (untraited) to 20secs, make it a combo field of some sort.

Whirling axe: let the ranger move while using this skill
fix the animation-lock on auto-attack on 1-hand sword.