Guild Wars 2

The following text in quotations I am about to post was written by someone else in a different post, but he hit the nail on the head so hard it shattered the space time continuum. This kind of BS needs to be fixed so kitten badly.

“well i’d like to see Scrappers absurd hammer damage coeffecients gone for good too.
Scrapper has MULTIPLE attacks on hammer that either have higher coefficients/damage than backstab or just around the same as backstab, and they all do something defensively as well. here’s a comaparison:
Backstab (something you have to enter stealth to access, then carefully position yourself to land for full damage, and only does damage; nothing else):
Front damage: 403 (1.2)?
Back damage: 806 (2.4)
and now scrapper’s hammer:
Electro-Whirl (6sec CD)
Damage (2x): 888 (2.2)?
Number of Impacts: 2
Number of Targets: 3
Radius: 180
Reflect Missiles
Combo Finisher: Whirl
Rocket Charge
Damage (3x): 1,212 (3.0)?
Number of Impacts: 3
Number of Targets: 5
Radius: 240
Combo Finisher: Leap
Evade: 1s
Range: 1,000
Shock Shield
Damage (5x): 1,010 (2.5)?
10 Vulnerability (5s): 10% Incoming Damage, 10% Incoming Condition Damage
Number of Targets: 5
Block Duration: 2s
Range: 170
Thunderclap
Damage (6x): 1,452 (3.6)?
Vulnerability (8s): 1% Incoming Damage, 1% Incoming Condition Damage
Stun: 1s
Pulses: 6
Interval: 1s
Radius: 240
Combo Field: Lightning
Range: 1,200
why is any of this, at any point, ok? who let this through the development process? why were skills with ridiculous utility also given ridiculous damage while weapons like Thief’s shortbow only offer passable utility at a steep cost of damage?”

+1 i would love to hear some explanation to this design decision

Please add some spaces to make it more readable, it is worth doing to bring more attention.

Arctarius.2649:

…snip…

Cause you are comparing apples and oranges….I don’t uderstand this type of threads “why backstab only do 10k dmg and not giving some utility”, “why thief shortbow only have escape stuff and no dmg” “why are we so bad”. I’ve seen some pretty good thieves out there.

Guess what, guardian have sword, hammer, scepter that have worse problems than your shortbow…

Ragnarox.9601:

Arctarius.2649:

…snip…

Cause you are comparing apples and oranges….I don’t uderstand this type of threads “why backstab only do 10k dmg and not giving some utility”, “why thief shortbow only have escape stuff and no dmg” “why are we so bad”. I’ve seen some pretty good thieves out there.

Guess what, guardian have sword, hammer, scepter that have worse problems than your shortbow…

What are you scared of? If hammer is “balanced” then they won’t touch it :>

Scrapper is one of the most efficient build.
Need to be balanced with others build/classes

Nina.4317:

Scrapper is one of the most efficient build.
Need to be balanced with others build/classes

Scrapper is not the problem. Hammer is too good. 9/10 Scrapper are running more or less Chaithhs build.

Cynz.9437:

Ragnarox.9601:

Arctarius.2649:

…snip…

Cause you are comparing apples and oranges….I don’t uderstand this type of threads “why backstab only do 10k dmg and not giving some utility”, “why thief shortbow only have escape stuff and no dmg” “why are we so bad”. I’ve seen some pretty good thieves out there.

Guess what, guardian have sword, hammer, scepter that have worse problems than your shortbow…

What are you scared of? If hammer is “balanced” then they won’t touch it :>

oh you got to be kidding me i wont even attach a meme for this.

Ragnarox.9601:

Arctarius.2649:

…snip…

Cause you are comparing apples and oranges….I don’t uderstand this type of threads “why backstab only do 10k dmg and not giving some utility”, “why thief shortbow only have escape stuff and no dmg” “why are we so bad”. I’ve seen some pretty good thieves out there.

Guess what, guardian have sword, hammer, scepter that have worse problems than your shortbow…

Usually im the last person to “complain” but there is a reason why scrappers on marauder amu is top tier and will remain so, while theres no top tier thief builds at all (or with emphasis on backstab).
The scrapper can do so much with its sustain and getaways that it isnt forced to bunker up through amulet. In the end, the elite specs on classes are just overly superior compared to core builds, which is a 180 turn from what Anet said they were going for. Due to this the more balanced state around june 2015 have now been stirred up on all classes. They would have to do some major elite spec overhaul to make core builds be more in line, which I honestly dont see happening but I really hope they prove me wrong.

Feels like my eyes got kitten d, but scrapper def needs to be toned down like every other hot spec, I want nades back. Side point: I prefer to control a scrappers burst through hydro procs since hammer 2 and swap is bugged, do what you will with that. (not in metabattle is it )

edit: My personal opinions on toning down scrapper would start at rapid regen and stealth gyro which are the obvious ones.

Arctarius.2649:

The following text in quotations I am about to post was written by someone else in a different post, but he hit the nail on the head so hard it shattered the space time continuum. This kind of BS needs to be fixed so kitten badly.

“well i’d like to see Scrappers absurd hammer damage coeffecients gone for good too.
Scrapper has MULTIPLE attacks on hammer that either have higher coefficients/damage than backstab or just around the same as backstab, and they all do something defensively as well. here’s a comaparison:
Backstab (something you have to enter stealth to access, then carefully position yourself to land for full damage, and only does damage; nothing else):
Front damage: 403 (1.2)?
Back damage: 806 (2.4)
and now scrapper’s hammer:
Electro-Whirl (6sec CD)
Damage (2x): 888 (2.2)?
Number of Impacts: 2
Number of Targets: 3
Radius: 180
Reflect Missiles
Combo Finisher: Whirl
Rocket Charge
Damage (3x): 1,212 (3.0)?
Number of Impacts: 3
Number of Targets: 5
Radius: 240
Combo Finisher: Leap
Evade: 1s
Range: 1,000
Shock Shield
Damage (5x): 1,010 (2.5)?
10 Vulnerability (5s): 10% Incoming Damage, 10% Incoming Condition Damage
Number of Targets: 5
Block Duration: 2s
Range: 170
Thunderclap
Damage (6x): 1,452 (3.6)?
Vulnerability (8s): 1% Incoming Damage, 1% Incoming Condition Damage
Stun: 1s
Pulses: 6
Interval: 1s
Radius: 240
Combo Field: Lightning
Range: 1,200
why is any of this, at any point, ok? who let this through the development process? why were skills with ridiculous utility also given ridiculous damage while weapons like Thief’s shortbow only offer passable utility at a steep cost of damage?”

you clearly dint even read the skills asides from the “big” damage
you cant even compare them either backstab doesnt even have a CD

electro whirl has x2 hits to do 800 damage
shock shield has x5 hits to do 1000 damage
thunderclap has to pulse 6 times with a target not moving evading or blocking in order to do its full damage
rocket charge has x3 hits for it todo 1200 damage

backstab = instant 1 hit 800 base damage that is why

but hey forget backstab what about heartseeker , or staff #5 or staff #2 all of those deal massive damage have no cooldowns and have side effects ontop of that .

backstab does have CD, it is bound to stealth and stealth is not free, not to mention there is such thing as revealed

@Rezzet
Backstab requires a lot of effort- you have to get stealthed and actually position yourself behind the person. Also, about the “no cooldown”- once you landed your backstab you have 4 sec of revealed. What is it if not cooldown?

Edit: lol @Cynz i just posted the same thing at the same time :>

Rezzet.3614:

you clearly dint even read the skills asides from the “big” damage
you cant even compare them either backstab doesnt even have a CD

Backstab has a cooldown and it is 4 sec in pvp, elector whirl has a 6 sec cd and is a reflect. Stop defending a over-tuned and broken weapon.

Rezzet is technically right but so is everyone else. Backstab doesn’t have a cool down as if you never got the revealed debuff after it you could stand in an SR and repeatedly backstab (or engy stealth gyro). However you do get revealed so you do have a soft cool down like others say.

As for the topic, the thing people are missing is that these coefficients are based on multiple hits. Now don’t get me wrong, I think some are way too high and too good for what they do but thunderclap is not going to be doing all 6 hits for 3.6. It does 6 hits at 0.6 so you’re likely to see a 1.2-1.8.

I’d like to see a slight reduction in a lot of them but not the heavy handed nerfs we all expect.

The problem as stated before thief sb for example was kept very weak dmg wise, even got nerfed couple times because of “utility”. Hammer is loaded with utility yet produces so much dmg.

Arctarius.2649:

The following text in quotations I am about to post was written by someone else in a different post, but he hit the nail on the head so hard it shattered the space time continuum. This kind of BS needs to be fixed so kitten badly.

“well i’d like to see Scrappers absurd hammer damage coeffecients gone for good too.
Scrapper has MULTIPLE attacks on hammer that either have higher coefficients/damage than backstab or just around the same as backstab, and they all do something defensively as well. here’s a comaparison:
Backstab (something you have to enter stealth to access, then carefully position yourself to land for full damage, and only does damage; nothing else):
Front damage: 403 (1.2)?
Back damage: 806 (2.4)
and now scrapper’s hammer:
Electro-Whirl (6sec CD)
Damage (2x): 888 (2.2)?
Number of Impacts: 2
Number of Targets: 3
Radius: 180
Reflect Missiles
Combo Finisher: Whirl
Rocket Charge
Damage (3x): 1,212 (3.0)?
Number of Impacts: 3
Number of Targets: 5
Radius: 240
Combo Finisher: Leap
Evade: 1s
Range: 1,000
Shock Shield
Damage (5x): 1,010 (2.5)?
10 Vulnerability (5s): 10% Incoming Damage, 10% Incoming Condition Damage
Number of Targets: 5
Block Duration: 2s
Range: 170
Thunderclap
Damage (6x): 1,452 (3.6)?
Vulnerability (8s): 1% Incoming Damage, 1% Incoming Condition Damage
Stun: 1s
Pulses: 6
Interval: 1s
Radius: 240
Combo Field: Lightning
Range: 1,200
why is any of this, at any point, ok? who let this through the development process? why were skills with ridiculous utility also given ridiculous damage while weapons like Thief’s shortbow only offer passable utility at a steep cost of damage?”

The comparisons in threads like these dont really work.
You compare different classes with different abilities.

Its kinda pointless comparing backstab to engi hammer attack spells and even ones, which needs to hit multiple times for the full coefficient.
The cooldowns are not compared either.
Besides, thiefs have more spells than just backstab.

Different classes are different.

Thief has weapon swap.
Thief can teleport and up to higher ground, engi cant.
Thief has more cc on lower cd than engi.
Thief is more mobile.
Different defences.
Etc.
So Thief and Engi are different.
Their abilities are in a different context, because the classes are different.

Some hammer spells having an offensive and a defensive on them, has a positive and a negative to it.
Positive when you can attack while defending against something.
Negative when you have to defend against something, while you cant hit with the attack (meaning you lose your attack when defending).

Thiefs arent in a great spot right now but complaining about hammer in a comparison thread like this, doesnt work imo and isnt the way to help thief.

apharma.3741:

Rezzet is technically right but so is everyone else. Backstab doesn’t have a cool down as if you never got the revealed debuff after it you could stand in an SR and repeatedly backstab (or engy stealth gyro). However you do get revealed so you do have a soft cool down like others say.

As for the topic, the thing people are missing is that these coefficients are based on multiple hits. Now don’t get me wrong, I think some are way too high and too good for what they do but thunderclap is not going to be doing all 6 hits for 3.6. It does 6 hits at 0.6 so you’re likely to see a 1.2-1.8.

I’d like to see a slight reduction in a lot of them but not the heavy handed nerfs we all expect.

ok backstab has a cooldown
my point remains perfectly viable if y ou replace backstab with heartseeker , staff #2 and staff #5 , pistol whip, dagger #3

Yashuoa.9527:

Arctarius.2649:

The following text in quotations I am about to post was written by someone else in a different post, but he hit the nail on the head so hard it shattered the space time continuum. This kind of BS needs to be fixed so kitten badly.

“well i’d like to see Scrappers absurd hammer damage coeffecients gone for good too.
Scrapper has MULTIPLE attacks on hammer that either have higher coefficients/damage than backstab or just around the same as backstab, and they all do something defensively as well. here’s a comaparison:
Backstab (something you have to enter stealth to access, then carefully position yourself to land for full damage, and only does damage; nothing else):
Front damage: 403 (1.2)?
Back damage: 806 (2.4)
and now scrapper’s hammer:
Electro-Whirl (6sec CD)
Damage (2x): 888 (2.2)?
Number of Impacts: 2
Number of Targets: 3
Radius: 180
Reflect Missiles
Combo Finisher: Whirl
Rocket Charge
Damage (3x): 1,212 (3.0)?
Number of Impacts: 3
Number of Targets: 5
Radius: 240
Combo Finisher: Leap
Evade: 1s
Range: 1,000
Shock Shield
Damage (5x): 1,010 (2.5)?
10 Vulnerability (5s): 10% Incoming Damage, 10% Incoming Condition Damage
Number of Targets: 5
Block Duration: 2s
Range: 170
Thunderclap
Damage (6x): 1,452 (3.6)?
Vulnerability (8s): 1% Incoming Damage, 1% Incoming Condition Damage
Stun: 1s
Pulses: 6
Interval: 1s
Radius: 240
Combo Field: Lightning
Range: 1,200
why is any of this, at any point, ok? who let this through the development process? why were skills with ridiculous utility also given ridiculous damage while weapons like Thief’s shortbow only offer passable utility at a steep cost of damage?”

The comparisons in threads like these dont really work.
You compare different classes with different abilities.

Its kinda pointless comparing backstab to engi hammer attack spells and even ones, which needs to hit multiple times for the full coefficient.
The cooldowns are not compared either.
Besides, thiefs have more spells than just backstab.

Different classes are different.

Thief has weapon swap.
Thief can teleport and up to higher ground, engi cant.
Thief has more cc on lower cd than engi.
Thief is more mobile.
Different defences.
Etc.
So Thief and Engi are different.
Their abilities are in a different context, because the classes are different.

Some hammer spells having an offensive and a defensive on them, has a positive and a negative to it.
Positive when you can attack while defending against something.
Negative when you have to defend against something, while you cant hit with the attack (meaning you lose your attack when defending).

Thiefs arent in a great spot right now but complaining about hammer in a comparison thread like this, doesnt work imo and isnt the way to help thief.

pretty much what you said , thief skills rely on mobility and deal instant damage scrappers deal as much damage but channeled

the problem as i mentioned is that people look at damage numbers but ignored the whole skill mechanics

all i can tell thief players is to try daredevil staff #2 skill is pretty good as you can slap perma weakness on enemy

weakness is one of the game’s most powerful conditions it completely shuts down crit and power builds and in some cases sustained builds that rely on evades

foste.3098:

Backstab has a cooldown and it is 4 sec in pvp, elector whirl has a 6 sec cd and is a reflect. Stop defending a over-tuned and broken weapon.

So what to reflect? projectiles? 99% of attacks arent projectiles. If you look at meta, Dh, warrior, hunter, staff ele, shortbow thief that use projectiles arent in the meta, so why complain?

So comparing backstab to hammer is plain stupid.

Rezzet.3614:

pretty much what you said , thief skills rely on mobility and deal instant damage scrappers deal as much damage but channeled

the problem as i mentioned is that people look at damage numbers but ignored the whole skill mechanics

all i can tell thief players is to try daredevil staff #2 skill is pretty good as you can slap perma weakness on enemy

weakness is one of the game’s most powerful conditions it completely shuts down crit and power builds and in some cases sustained builds that rely on evades

Yes, but even if you compare the whole skillsets thief BS (which is the burst skill that takes the most effort in game) gets the short end and that’s the point.

Jana.6831:

Rezzet.3614:

pretty much what you said , thief skills rely on mobility and deal instant damage scrappers deal as much damage but channeled

the problem as i mentioned is that people look at damage numbers but ignored the whole skill mechanics

all i can tell thief players is to try daredevil staff #2 skill is pretty good as you can slap perma weakness on enemy

weakness is one of the game’s most powerful conditions it completely shuts down crit and power builds and in some cases sustained builds that rely on evades

Yes, but even if you compare the whole skillsets thief BS (which is the burst skill that takes the most effort in game) gets the short end and that’s the point.

to be fair BS isnt that hard to land either just go invisible and teleport to target to land it pretty much

but THAT is precisely the point it is not Engineer’s fault its that thief kinda got left out during rebalance

kitten thieves are kitten , buff plz

Engineers have weapon swap, its called Kits. Oh and you (shocker) have more abilities than us in just your F1-F5 keys.

Hammer 2 is a reflect with a 1 second cast, massive damage, a reflect, and a combo finisher.
Hammer 3 is a leap, an evade, massive damage, and has 1.75 cast time.
Hammer 4 is a block, does massive damage, lasts 1.75 seconds, and inflicts vulnerability.
Hammer 5 is a ranged ability, combo field, massive aoe damage, a stun, some vulnerability, lasts 6 seconds, and has a .75 cast time.

:D So hammer alone sounds beautiful and potent, yes? Then you look at Scrapper traits…… and cry. Ranged stomp/rez, doing such is aoe 5 might and superspeed, and you become the god of stuns/dazes. So just taking the line and the hammer, not selecting traits or anything else- you already are comparable to a 3 trait line thief using Dagger/Pistol. I want to point this out. A 50% damage reduction for a start would do wonders. Now to wait for people defending this because someone its not broken op just like Revenant (not even Herald, just Rev).

Rezzet.3614:

to be fair BS isnt that hard to land either just go invisible and teleport to target to land it pretty much

but THAT is precisely the point it is not Engineer’s fault its that thief kinda got left out during rebalance

Point of this thread – why does every skill hit harder than the one skill that is the hardest to land?
Even if it’s not that hard for you – it is the burst skill which requires the most skill.

And yes, it’s not the fault of engineers or of any other class, it still doesn’t make sense and should’ve never happened in the way it did – as thieves got low surviviability because of backstab – so we now have our low survivability and almost no utility while every other class hits harder with one click of a button.

I played full gyro scrapper from HoT release to about 3 weeks in. Not gonna lie, it was crazy OP. I also was playing with like the first condi rev, who ran Mallyx and Glint. It was easy 2v5s. We would run in, I would daze everything for days, he’d torment them for days, they’d all run around trying to evade everything and wonder how the hell they all died to two people.

Then people got wise and suddenly everyone knew when to dodge and how to avoid the fields to remain mostly daze free, and they started being able to avoid the condi my rev was pumping out.

Now with a more mature build, I find most of my damage IS in reflects. Rangers, guardians, killshot warriors… when I see them on enemy teams I get super happy because most people don’t seem to know what a freaking reflect is anyways, and I laugh my kitten off as they kill themselves with my chain reflects, never bothering to swap out of their ranged weapons, mostly because people are so used to just pew pewing things from far away that they haven’t bothered to learn the game mechanics so when they die they are left wondering how.

Chaining your 3rd hammer skill almost never lands 3 times. When it does, freaking awesome, but it’s definitely not always easy.

I like the engi just as much as I like facing engis. I can kill marauder engis on pretty much any of my classes. They aren’t tanky. It just takes timing and a knowledge of game mechanics.

Most of the whining I see in here is from people who wish things were easy for them.

QQ my class is no longer the most OP.

QQ my skill doesn’t do as much damage as X’s skill.

QQ their class is unavoidable.

It’s all bull. When you know the game, you know all the classes, you aren’t picking your effing builds from an effing website that tells you it’s the best, you can actually free yourself up to play effectively.

Just because your mindless popularity contest website says a build is the best
does. not. mean. it. is.

It’s just the most popular. It’s gotten votes. That’s it.

I don’t think a single build I run is on the meta, and I can carry most games on most of my classes.

Yes, there are actually thief builds that are hella viable in this new meta and they are annoying af when they get run properly. (Instant kill no downed state, please tell me that’s not OP af)

They just aren’t your easy mode stealth and backstab and run away bull crap you’ve been used to for so long.

Let go. Get over it. Keep up or get left behind.

And yes, HoT builds are better than core. Core is free. HoT is paid. Why shouldn’t it be that way? If you want to be free to play, you better be good as hell, otherwise pay for an advantage.

There are still hella viable core builds. (MM or Power necro, core thief decapper, multiple ele builds, mesmer shatter still viable af) Hell I was running this morning with a core thief and won 3 games in a row, and we were just randomly pugged together. We won mostly because of him. Doing his job. Knowing his class. Knowing how to play.

People whine because they want it to be easy. That’s not the point of the game, the point is to keep the game evolving. It isn’t balanced and it’s never going to be. If we all did the same damage with the same utilities there wouldn’t be freaking classes or a need for different builds.

Jana.6831:

Rezzet.3614:

pretty much what you said , thief skills rely on mobility and deal instant damage scrappers deal as much damage but channeled

the problem as i mentioned is that people look at damage numbers but ignored the whole skill mechanics

all i can tell thief players is to try daredevil staff #2 skill is pretty good as you can slap perma weakness on enemy

weakness is one of the game’s most powerful conditions it completely shuts down crit and power builds and in some cases sustained builds that rely on evades

Yes, but even if you compare the whole skillsets thief BS (which is the burst skill that takes the most effort in game) gets the short end and that’s the point.

You shouldnt only look at how much dmg an ability does, but also the context of which class has it, how much dps, besides burst does it do.

Comparing an instant, to a multiple hit attack (takes longer than the instant and can be more counterable)
and saying, ‘’omg the multiple hit attack does equal or more dmg’’,
that isnt really a fair comparison.
You can do multiple instants during the multiple hit attack.

You are not gonna compare an instant to an ele overload or warrior 100b either.

Than there are cooldowns and other factors.
Classes having different survival methods etc. etc. etc.

Comparing abilities on different classes hardly ever works well though.

Anyway, seems thief is getting more dmg
and buffs to acrobatics.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/profession-balance-goals-for-the-winter-2016-update/

Thief
In the recent history of thieves, their damage roles have been largely burst-based due to initiative, while their autoattacks do little to sustain their DPS. In addition, initiative often needs to be used defensively, which can take a toll on overall damage output. Our design for this profession tends to lean toward damage, mobility, and evasiveness. In the first quarter of this year, we’ll be looking to drastically improve thief melee autoattacks until their overall sustained damage when coupled with initiative use is extremely dangerous. In addition to the damage improvements, we’ve done a bit of reworking and improvements to the Acrobatics specialization line.

Not sure if more autoattack dmg is right way to buff thief but this seems to be the plan.

When I’m on my ranger: one rapid fire = 21 stacks of vulnerability – no idea whether or not I’m traited for it. I just need to bait for dodges or wait another 8 sec to get that damage in. If not I can use my GS for another 5 stacks of vulnerability = I’m doing 21-25% more damage – that is a lot and that is nothing a thief can do, especially not a backstab thief.
So if you argue that other classes have got different mechanics and one has to count the conditions etc in – then do it – you’ll be surprised to find that dagger mainhand thieves do poison and bleeding. And that all the dangerous boons and conditions you’re talking about are on other classes. You’ll also find that thieves are the only class with no passives (except one in acro) and only a suicidal block if owning HoT. Only damage migation is stealth if traited which is destroyed by reveal traits.
I can’t talk too much about staff as I ditched it pretty soon after trying – but we aren’t talking about staff but backstab.
The point is that skill has been nerfed big time in June and with HoT – and that makes this game rather boring and the longer it stays as it is the more people will cry if it’s finally changed.

ETA: And no – I think most people don’t want the damage of thief increased but the damage of other classes decreased. Backstab has once been the highest single target burst and that was for a reason – which I already explained.

Jana.6831:

When I’m on my ranger: one rapid fire = 21 stacks of vulnerability

Rapid fire puts out 10 stacks at the most – 10 shots each applying 1 stack. I have no idea where you got the 21 idea from since there are no traits that augment it (quick draw lets you cast rf twice in a row, but that is 20 stacks for using the skill twice). Not that all of the shots land anyway so you almost never even get the 10 stacks.

Marksmanship Opening Strike with a pet puts out 10 and RF another 10. How 21, I’m not sure, could be from Frailty or something, or perhaps a pet like the spider.

Scrapper damage is way overtuned for how durable the spec is and how much CC it can put out. Played one for a day, it was so overpowered it wasn’t even fun. 60k damage engages from range via target isolation and huge stunlock potential just trivialized combat entirely. Even hammer rev has more risk on it, and that’s just sad.

DeceiverX.8361:

Marksmanship Opening Strike with a pet puts out 10 and RF another 10

True! However you also must consider that the vulnerability from the marksmanship minors last for 5 sec, and after that the 3 minor traits are literally worthless unless you trait for them and have a specific build made for it (remorseless).
Imo in their current state they are the worst minor traits in the whole game.

Nah, I think I have a puma, right now – but I can have a closer look.

Edit: (pics and..)
Part of it are my traits, part is my pet, part is LB/GS (not in that screenshot, that was rapid fire alone) – my second is a bird which deals bleeding as far as I remember (the maul in the dmg log is from my pet which deals 4 stacks of vulnerability additionally)

Jana you’re getting opening strike in addition to rapid fire most likely, can put a lot of vuln on.

Also while you’re heralding the amazing lack of Passive bull kitten from thieves don’t forget about how passively you apply weakness with lotus poison minor, it’s so passive most thieves like yourself have no clue you’re preventing counter burst with steal→hidden thief→BS.

Also thief does have plenty of passives, they’re usually not chosen as they aren’t competitive: resilience of shadows, last refuge, panic strike, unrelenting strikes, ankle shots, pain response, hard to catch, don’t stop, flanking strikes and weakening strikes.

All things that proc without me ch or any user input or thought. That’s without mentioning how passively stealth shuts out attacks from certain weapons which require targets.

Don’t get me wrong, thieves are no where near the passive proc stuff of ele, engy and warrior but they are not devoid of it either. If acro revamp makes it worth taking for a GM you will see a lot picking pain response and hard to catch if they leave them as they are.

apharma – I know how to play thief – and I would appreciate it if you wouldn’t belittle me everytime you see any of my posts – just ignore me =)
(A thief getting an autoattack in is really rare – the poison aa deals isn’t as dangerous as you make it out to be – the other stuff I already explained with my edit, I guess).

Oh and please list the many passives thieves have got. That much I ask of you – if you say so there has to be plenty – otherwise, honestly, please ignore me!

Jana.6831:

apharma – I know how to play thief – and I would appreciate it if you wouldn’t belittle me everytime you see any of my posts – just ignore me =)
(A thief getting an autoattack in is really rare – the poison aa deals isn’t as dangerous as you make it out to be – the other stuff I already explained with my edit, I guess).

Usually It takes at least 2 back stabs to kill someone, I usually follow up the 2nd back stab with a full auto chain as usually I will have the panic strike proc come out and the poison with weakness means counter burst gets heavily neutered and healing is reduced if they do heal. The full auto averages about 5k in marauder which is much better than anything else you can do especially given you want to save ini.

I only noticed it so much because shatter mesmer has no condition clear so that steal really puts them on the back foot right of the bat.

Also yeah, sorry maybe it was a bit uncalled for but many thieves do not realise how passively they keep poison on targets.

Edit: Here is a breakdown of a thief auto and how it really does do 5k in the full chain.

apharma.3741:

Usually It takes at least 2 back stabs to kill someone, I usually follow up the 2nd back stab with a full auto chain as usually I will have the panic strike proc come out and the poison with weakness means counter burst gets heavily neutered and healing is reduced if they do heal. The full auto averages about 5k in marauder which is much better than anything else you can do especially given you want to save ini.

I only noticed it so much because shatter mesmer has no condition clear so that steal really puts them on the back foot right of the bat.

Also yeah, sorry maybe it was a bit uncalled for but many thieves do not realise how passively they keep poison on targets.

Ok, and this now answers what? nothing – right.
Goodbye apharma, please leave me alone or discuss constructively with evidence and examples and don’t just claim stuff, please.
And I know the worth of poison – I also know that it’s very hard to land in this meta right now – and I’m personally not running DA – so I don’t have a panic strike which is really good. And by the way – it’s not really passively procced if you meant that.

Jana.6831:

apharma.3741:

Usually It takes at least 2 back stabs to kill someone, I usually follow up the 2nd back stab with a full auto chain as usually I will have the panic strike proc come out and the poison with weakness means counter burst gets heavily neutered and healing is reduced if they do heal. The full auto averages about 5k in marauder which is much better than anything else you can do especially given you want to save ini.

I only noticed it so much because shatter mesmer has no condition clear so that steal really puts them on the back foot right of the bat.

Also yeah, sorry maybe it was a bit uncalled for but many thieves do not realise how passively they keep poison on targets.

Ok, and this now answers what? nothing – right.
Goodbye apharma, please leave me alone or discuss constructively with evidence and examples and don’t just claim stuff, please.
And I know the worth of poison – I also know that it’s very hard to land in this meta right now – and I’m personally not running DA – so I don’t have a panic strike which is really good. And by the way – it’s not really passively procced if you meant that.

I already listed the passives, go back and look.
I wouldn’t be half as bothered by you if you would state something correct. One minute you’re complaining about passive procs on other classes, next you say thief has none. I list them and you tell me you know your class very well.

Then why do you say thief has no passives except that one in acro when clearly they have more, I listed them, anyone can look it up in game or on the wiki. That’s without going over the many other things you’ve claimed that turned out to be wrong either.