Guild Wars 2

Not sure if you watched the EU region yesterday but no stomps tbh.

Also still early days where a lot of less experienced teams will be in the cast at this point.

Well then maybe some of us should have enter xd.

There should be a site for days without lopez being a so and so, the record is probably 3.

Where can I watch the videos of these? Thanks

Haha saw this thread and thought “Oh crap what did we do!?!”

First off, thanks for the compliment OP. Christian and I have a long way to go before we’re on Blu’s level of shoutcasting. Its a lot harder than it looks people

You can catch the replay over at www.twitch.tv/digitalprosports

I honestly think NA’s scene is growing but there’s a clear gap between the “pro’s”
vs the “still learning to rotate effectively”. Part of the problem with having qualifiers spread over 4 weeks is ya gotta spread the top teams out. While this is a great chance for newer teams/players to get on stream, it also means that youre naturally going to have some lopsided matches.

Lopez.7369:

Never has there been a bigger indication that the competitive community is dead. These matches are like watching hotjoins.

What’s sad is the shoutcasting is good for once. But it’s so wasted.

Yeh but in truth it is easy to pick faults with how people play. Everyone makes mistakes. Ranging from little ones to big ones.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Lopez.7369:

Never has there been a bigger indication that the competitive community is dead. These matches are like watching hotjoins.

What’s sad is the shoutcasting is good for once. But it’s so wasted.

Yeh but in truth it is easy to pick faults with how people play. Everyone makes mistakes. Ranging from little ones to big ones.

Well said, I think everyone can agree with this statement.

xantosnightwish.5438:

Haha saw this thread and thought “Oh crap what did we do!?!”

First off, thanks for the compliment OP. Christian and I have a long way to go before we’re on Blu’s level of shoutcasting. Its a lot harder than it looks people

You can catch the replay over at www.twitch.tv/digitalprosports

I honestly think NA’s scene is growing but there’s a clear gap between the “pro’s”
vs the “still learning to rotate effectively”. Part of the problem with having qualifiers spread over 4 weeks is ya gotta spread the top teams out. While this is a great chance for newer teams/players to get on stream, it also means that youre naturally going to have some lopsided matches.

Casting was awsome! DPS handled NA ToL 2 perfectly(as something someone can take seriously). You were on point,talked about teams,gave time frames,when matches will be and you cared about viewers. When we watch EU ToL is like…30min of kitten “music”,no time frame,then Jebro just says some random stuff:D,laughs at his own *cough*jokes*cough*:D and then,if he doesn’t believe team has a chance,either over hypes stuff at times back to laughing,etc I am sorry Jebro…before I had no problem with you casting,but lately is just too much for me:D (I understand DPS has more people for this,but you gotta step your game up)
I wish DPS also handles EU ToL. Even when one team dominated,I still enjoyed watching match,because casters made it interesting. Bravo DPS, bravo!

Lopez.7369:

Never has there been a bigger indication that the competitive community is dead. These matches are like watching hotjoins.

What’s sad is the shoutcasting is good for once. But it’s so wasted.

Maybe you missed the part where this was the QUALIFIERS ??? If you want to see Gw2 teams at the best, wait for the Championship brackets, stop moaning about new teams in the qualifier rounds coming to the scene. I agree with you on the shout-casting though.

Frae

xantosnightwish.5438:

Haha saw this thread and thought “Oh crap what did we do!?!”

First off, thanks for the compliment OP. Christian and I have a long way to go before we’re on Blu’s level of shoutcasting. Its a lot harder than it looks people

You can catch the replay over at www.twitch.tv/digitalprosports

I honestly think NA’s scene is growing but there’s a clear gap between the “pro’s”
vs the “still learning to rotate effectively”. Part of the problem with having qualifiers spread over 4 weeks is ya gotta spread the top teams out. While this is a great chance for newer teams/players to get on stream, it also means that youre naturally going to have some lopsided matches.

The NA pvp community is not growing, its dying. Its been dying since a month into the game. All the “competitive” teams get good, realize the game isnt gonna get any better, and leave. The bad teams, that are better than the worst teams, fill in this gap and become the new “competitive” teams. People keep leaving those left notice the overall lack of skill, until you have the biggest guildwars 2 tournament qualifiers with less viewers than some guy playing earthbound. Guess im tired of being optimistic with this game lol.

Nemiros.3590:

xantosnightwish.5438:

Haha saw this thread and thought “Oh crap what did we do!?!”

First off, thanks for the compliment OP. Christian and I have a long way to go before we’re on Blu’s level of shoutcasting. Its a lot harder than it looks people

You can catch the replay over at www.twitch.tv/digitalprosports

I honestly think NA’s scene is growing but there’s a clear gap between the “pro’s”
vs the “still learning to rotate effectively”. Part of the problem with having qualifiers spread over 4 weeks is ya gotta spread the top teams out. While this is a great chance for newer teams/players to get on stream, it also means that youre naturally going to have some lopsided matches.

The NA pvp community is not growing, its dying. Its been dying since a month into the game. All the “competitive” teams get good, realize the game isnt gonna get any better, and leave. The bad teams, that are better than the worst teams, fill in this gap and become the new “competitive” teams. People keep leaving those left notice the overall lack of skill, until you have the biggest guildwars 2 tournament qualifiers with less viewers than some guy playing earthbound. Guess im tired of being optimistic with this game lol.

ya :/ even months ago in our pug groups we were destroying pretty much everyone except 3-4 real teams and even then it was pretty close despite the fact that we barely used voip.

I think the only thing that will even marginally save the scene now is if anet makes pvp as rewarding as it was in gw1. The horde of pve farmers probably has a couple 100 decent players that could become semi-competitive if it was more rewarding than grinding content over and over.

Zirith.6429:

Nemiros.3590:

xantosnightwish.5438:

Haha saw this thread and thought “Oh crap what did we do!?!”

First off, thanks for the compliment OP. Christian and I have a long way to go before we’re on Blu’s level of shoutcasting. Its a lot harder than it looks people

You can catch the replay over at www.twitch.tv/digitalprosports

I honestly think NA’s scene is growing but there’s a clear gap between the “pro’s”
vs the “still learning to rotate effectively”. Part of the problem with having qualifiers spread over 4 weeks is ya gotta spread the top teams out. While this is a great chance for newer teams/players to get on stream, it also means that youre naturally going to have some lopsided matches.

The NA pvp community is not growing, its dying. Its been dying since a month into the game. All the “competitive” teams get good, realize the game isnt gonna get any better, and leave. The bad teams, that are better than the worst teams, fill in this gap and become the new “competitive” teams. People keep leaving those left notice the overall lack of skill, until you have the biggest guildwars 2 tournament qualifiers with less viewers than some guy playing earthbound. Guess im tired of being optimistic with this game lol.

ya :/ even months ago in our pug groups we were destroying pretty much everyone except 3-4 real teams and even then it was pretty close despite the fact that we barely used voip.

I think the only thing that will even marginally save the scene now is if anet makes pvp as rewarding as it was in gw1. The horde of pve farmers probably has a couple 100 decent players that could become semi-competitive if it was more rewarding than grinding content over and over.

Its too late for that. They could have promoted the game long ago, wouldve saved the pvp. They opted for a bussines model for PvE medium pop mmo. Even smite has 30k price pools for their tournaments; The developer has to create the competitive scene, they thought the community would be enough to make it.

ya i dont mean revive the scene just make it so you can do a q and not have 3 noobs an average player and a guy in the top 50 carrying in every soloq, maybe like 1 noob and 3 average players :?

Nemiros.3590:

Zirith.6429:

Nemiros.3590:

xantosnightwish.5438:

Haha saw this thread and thought “Oh crap what did we do!?!”

First off, thanks for the compliment OP. Christian and I have a long way to go before we’re on Blu’s level of shoutcasting. Its a lot harder than it looks people

You can catch the replay over at www.twitch.tv/digitalprosports

I honestly think NA’s scene is growing but there’s a clear gap between the “pro’s”
vs the “still learning to rotate effectively”. Part of the problem with having qualifiers spread over 4 weeks is ya gotta spread the top teams out. While this is a great chance for newer teams/players to get on stream, it also means that youre naturally going to have some lopsided matches.

The NA pvp community is not growing, its dying. Its been dying since a month into the game. All the “competitive” teams get good, realize the game isnt gonna get any better, and leave. The bad teams, that are better than the worst teams, fill in this gap and become the new “competitive” teams. People keep leaving those left notice the overall lack of skill, until you have the biggest guildwars 2 tournament qualifiers with less viewers than some guy playing earthbound. Guess im tired of being optimistic with this game lol.

ya :/ even months ago in our pug groups we were destroying pretty much everyone except 3-4 real teams and even then it was pretty close despite the fact that we barely used voip.

I think the only thing that will even marginally save the scene now is if anet makes pvp as rewarding as it was in gw1. The horde of pve farmers probably has a couple 100 decent players that could become semi-competitive if it was more rewarding than grinding content over and over.

Its too late for that. They could have promoted the game long ago, wouldve saved the pvp. They opted for a bussines model for PvE medium pop mmo. Even smite has 30k price pools for their tournaments; The developer has to create the competitive scene, they thought the community would be enough to make it.

Ive said this before. A big prize pool does not make a competitive game.

Big prize pools are offset with high viewer count, views that you can sell for sponsorships. A lot of people watching an event is a big deal for promotional value, and companies (like intel, sandisk, coca cola, red bull, etcetc) jump in and sponsor these events, in return for the advertisement value.

Without these sponsors you will just be throwing away a lot of money. Money that, honestly, none of these teams are skilled/entertaining enough to earn.
Anyway, thats besides the point. What is to the point is the fact GW2 doesnt get these kind of viewers.

Its a very spectator unfriendly game. Its hard to follow, and not fun to watch. How many concurrent views did TOL even get? at the very best? I’ll bet some guy playing Heartstone from his bedroom gets more views then an official, casted, GW2 events.

Terrahero.9358:

Nemiros.3590:

Zirith.6429:

Nemiros.3590:

xantosnightwish.5438:

Haha saw this thread and thought “Oh crap what did we do!?!”

First off, thanks for the compliment OP. Christian and I have a long way to go before we’re on Blu’s level of shoutcasting. Its a lot harder than it looks people

You can catch the replay over at www.twitch.tv/digitalprosports

I honestly think NA’s scene is growing but there’s a clear gap between the “pro’s”
vs the “still learning to rotate effectively”. Part of the problem with having qualifiers spread over 4 weeks is ya gotta spread the top teams out. While this is a great chance for newer teams/players to get on stream, it also means that youre naturally going to have some lopsided matches.

The NA pvp community is not growing, its dying. Its been dying since a month into the game. All the “competitive” teams get good, realize the game isnt gonna get any better, and leave. The bad teams, that are better than the worst teams, fill in this gap and become the new “competitive” teams. People keep leaving those left notice the overall lack of skill, until you have the biggest guildwars 2 tournament qualifiers with less viewers than some guy playing earthbound. Guess im tired of being optimistic with this game lol.

ya :/ even months ago in our pug groups we were destroying pretty much everyone except 3-4 real teams and even then it was pretty close despite the fact that we barely used voip.

I think the only thing that will even marginally save the scene now is if anet makes pvp as rewarding as it was in gw1. The horde of pve farmers probably has a couple 100 decent players that could become semi-competitive if it was more rewarding than grinding content over and over.

Its too late for that. They could have promoted the game long ago, wouldve saved the pvp. They opted for a bussines model for PvE medium pop mmo. Even smite has 30k price pools for their tournaments; The developer has to create the competitive scene, they thought the community would be enough to make it.

Ive said this before. A big prize pool does not make a competitive game.

Big prize pools are offset with high viewer count, views that you can sell for sponsorships. A lot of people watching an event is a big deal for promotional value, and companies (like intel, sandisk, coca cola, red bull, etcetc) jump in and sponsor these events, in return for the advertisement value.

Without these sponsors you will just be throwing away a lot of money. Money that, honestly, none of these teams are skilled/entertaining enough to earn.
Anyway, thats besides the point. What is to the point is the fact GW2 doesnt get these kind of viewers.

Its a very spectator unfriendly game. Its hard to follow, and not fun to watch. How many concurrent views did TOL even get? at the very best? I’ll bet some guy playing Heartstone from his bedroom gets more views then an official, casted, GW2 events.

I think the first ToL got somthing like 4k viewers, by the time of this tournament the game was already pretty much dead. The game is not that unfriendly to watch; since overall strategy is what determines high level play and theres plenty of 1v1s and 2v2s.
meh wtv, dunno why I keep typing. Its already too late for any kind of discussion about this

pretty much… :/

The first TOL viewer count plummeted after they gave away their free precursor. It ended up with around ~1600 viewers from 4 k viewers.

To give a comparison, the completely unsupported “violating my gamemode” wvw gvg between the top NA and EU teams pulled in comparable viewers.

AsmallChicken.9634:

The first TOL viewer count plummeted after they gave away their free precursor. It ended up with around ~1600 viewers from 4 k viewers.

To give a comparison, the completely unsupported “violating my gamemode” wvw gvg between the top NA and EU teams pulled in comparable viewers.

I personally stopped watching because since the beginning i was saying that theres no way these troll 2 warrior overall bunker comps would end up in the finals; skill will overcome the cheese. As the tournament kept going my eyes started watering until the semi finals made me lose all hope in humanity, and just stopped watching. I didnt watch the finals, but im pretty sure someone in my TS was yelling “Stop hitting it! the tournament is already dead! T_T”.

1600 people watched the finals? really?

After 2 years of unchanged PvP, no incentives, no new modes and no commitment from the side of A-Net to fix this game there’s little room for saying that this tournament is interesting to watch nor the gameplay in general.

AsmallChicken.9634:

The first TOL viewer count plummeted after they gave away their free precursor. It ended up with around ~1600 viewers from 4 k viewers.

To give a comparison, the completely unsupported “violating my gamemode” wvw gvg between the top NA and EU teams pulled in comparable viewers.

Even so, you can’t tell what is going on in GvG. It’s a zergfest.

The pvp scene is filled with casual PvE players that pvp once every 1-2 months…. and its for good reasons. They never really tried and never will try either. So dont get your hopes up.

Jeeeeeez, just drop the eSport crap already.

This game barely had a prayer when it was fresh on the market. Even the king of MMOs barely had a place in the eSport scene. MMORPG’s are just not eSport games right now. You have to almost design a game around the idea of being eSport friendly. It just can’t work without Developer aid. They’ve already made it clear where they stand with PvP in this game.

The best thing we can do as a community is drop this eSport BS. Lets make the game fun and enjoyable for this small following of PvPers we have left. Even if we do that, we still have to hope that Devs care enough about PvP to make the changes.

Khang.6743:

Even the king of MMOs barely had a place in the eSport scene. MMORPG’s are just not eSport games right now. You have to almost design a game around the idea of being eSport friendly.

Well GW1 was fun to watch

Lopez.7369:

I don’t buy the qualifiers excuse. This is the first game I’ve seen — even if I include a game like WOW, which was never particularly serious about PvP — in which the qualifiers involved people who could be mistaken for someone who just picked up the game for the first time. The gameplay was just terrible.

The shoutcasters don’t need to be modest. They were much, much better than Blu. Substantial calls and analysis happened in the middle of matches. It was very refreshing.

Life lesson: If you don’t like it, don’t watch it. As we like to tell 4 year olds… “You get what you get and you don’t throw a fit”. Take the advice.

Duran.3196:

Khang.6743:

Even the king of MMOs barely had a place in the eSport scene. MMORPG’s are just not eSport games right now. You have to almost design a game around the idea of being eSport friendly.

Well GW1 was fun to watch

That’s a good point actually. Worth some discussion. One big reason that comes to mind would be too many particle effects in GW2, which GW1 didn’t have…

umad OP

it this lopez guy the same from wow arenajunkies? Everyone on arenajunkies laugh bout this guy – just asking^^

Well, Lopez, surely you must realize that having these “qualifiers” is not a bad method to weed out the teams and players considering that there’s not a very good method otherwise. We have inexperienced players showing up high in the leaderboards with the current system. How else should teams and players be weeded out?

There are a few reasons as to why this may be. The first of which calls back to the mission statement of ToL I’m the first place.

“This PvP tournament is open to players of all skill levels, and all teams that win so much as a single round will walk away with a prize.”

Not every tournament is about showing you the highest tier of skilled play. Some, such as the weeklies, are done for fun and community building more than anything. It is no secret that there are not many super competitive teams, a lot of the reason for that has been the lack of an incentive. A tournament with prizing for just about 50% of it’s participants, and exclusive prizes such as the llama mini at that, I think are a pretty good kicker to get a group of friends together and get serious.

We had over 400 teams and 2,000 players signing up for this one event, so obviously something is being done right. If we ignored the qualifiers and just went straight to inviting the “top” teams, why would any team every want to try and jump into this game in the first place? With that said, a lot of these teams are new and the gap between them and more established squads is going to be rather apparent, as OP was referring to on Sunday’s stream. As the scene (hopefully) continues to grow and incentives continue to rise a lot of this will start to disperse. I get asked by about 5-10 prior high tier players that since moved on to games a month asking what’s coming up in the scene, and very often they hear enough to want to venture back into guild wars. Back to the point at hand however, with 128 teams per region every matchup unfortunately is not going to be Team Paradigm vs Car Crash from the EU PAX Quals, especially with the current size of the “higher tier” scene.

The qualifiers also created an interesting issue in themselves with them being on separate dates. Some of them became more congested than others (Q3 NA specifically) with “good teams” due to availability, which skewed the potential teams that would more than likely end up in the grand finals quite a bit, however we’ve already started talks about how to fix this.

Back to what I was saying about more “community” driven events however, I like to think of the qualifiers as more of one of these. We’re seeing a whole boat load of new faces, and some of them may be surprising you more than others. That super duper high tier play that everyone craves will be seen once we have our eight invitees to the grand finals later in August, so look forward to that a bit more. ^_^

Thanks for reading.

BLUna.7928:

I get asked by about 5-10 prior high tier players that since moved on to games a month asking what’s coming up in the scene, and very often they hear enough to want to venture back into guild wars.

Yea, those skill fact updates are srs bsns.

BLUna.7928:

We had over 400 teams and 2,000 players signing up for this one event, so obviously something is being done right.

2000 players and only 1600 viewers?

wow^^

I don’t mind. It gives us average players a chance to be “top level”. If you want serious e-sports, you need to look for another game.

Personally I enjoy the fact that I can go to PvP and win most of the fights without focusing too much on the task at hand. I can also play tPvP with friends instead of guys that are good at the game but act like pricks.

Understandably there are some low level teams in the tournament, but personally I’ve witnessed many times that a player would laugh and point out the mistakes in other people’s gameplay, while being a horrible player “on the field” themselves. It’s a fast-paced game and mistakes are going to be made if you’re not focused and start panicking when things aren’t going the right way.

Lopez.7369:

Never has there been a bigger indication that the competitive community is dead. These matches are like watching hotjoins.

What’s sad is the shoutcasting is good for once. But it’s so wasted.

Exactly…you know what is more lol….some poor soul tried to defend this stupidity in a thread called “Dodgeball-Style All Star Match (NA)”.

He stated you could learn from these people and better yourself at conquest pvp within these major tourneys. Here is some random quote he typed “You watch when they rotate and ask yourself why.”.

Sube Dai.8496:

That’s a good point actually. Worth some discussion. One big reason that comes to mind would be too many particle effects in GW2, which GW1 didn’t have…

Sure, the particles/effects bordering trigger-happy epilepsy are a downside.

But as a former avid GW1 GvG player (who, btw, can’t stand at all how players in GW2 can call a minizerg TDM 20vs20 “GvG”…), I can pinpoint some other serious issues regarding observer mode and the huge difference in it between GW1 and GW2.

First, and most important, reason: the pace of the game. GW1 was a lot slower than GW2 overall, and for that exact reason required a higher skill cap to play well as a team (i.e.: just remember what teams like War Machine/Last Pride could and were able to do, regardless of build). But, as an observer, you could follow, due to that slower pace, the match in a meaningful way, understanding positioning, skill usage and even team play.

Second, skills/game mechanics/tooltips were crystalline clear. No hidden mechanics, no useless wow-esque high numbers, skill descriptions were clear and straightforward, no random skill/traits effects. This helped a lot in both playing and watching a match and almost fully understand it: “that player is now using skill X, which does Y, in the Y moment, I get why he/she did that”.

Both previous reasons lead to a greater understanding of how team builds worked: balanced, spike, condispam, hexspam, split teams.

Oh, and let’s not forget the skill casting bar – it helped too in observer mode, even though it was (clearly) a lot more useful while playing the game.

And, as a final added bonus, you could even watch your OWN games, just to try to find what went incredibily wrong in the last match. Some people used it to grieve and for name-calling to their own team mates, but good players used it in a much more meaningful and useful way: to learn from each player mistakes and to learn how to be better as a team (for example, if the mistake lied in a bad decision by the team leader or by poor execution of a good decision, etc.).

KarlaGrey.5903:

BLUna.7928:

I get asked by about 5-10 prior high tier players that since moved on to games a month asking what’s coming up in the scene, and very often they hear enough to want to venture back into guild wars.

Yea, those skill fact updates are srs bsns.

Had a good laugh, thanks.
* flies away while dodging infraction points *

Galandil.9641:

Sube Dai.8496:

That’s a good point actually. Worth some discussion. One big reason that comes to mind would be too many particle effects in GW2, which GW1 didn’t have…

Sure, the particles/effects bordering trigger-happy epilepsy are a downside.

But as a former avid GW1 GvG player (who, btw, can’t stand at all how players in GW2 can call a minizerg TDM 20vs20 “GvG”…), I can pinpoint some other serious issues regarding observer mode and the huge difference in it between GW1 and GW2.

First, and most important, reason: the pace of the game. GW1 was a lot slower than GW2 overall, and for that exact reason required a higher skill cap to play well as a team (i.e.: just remember what teams like War Machine/Last Pride could and were able to do, regardless of build). But, as an observer, you could follow, due to that slower pace, the match in a meaningful way, understanding positioning, skill usage and even team play.

Second, skills/game mechanics/tooltips were crystalline clear. No hidden mechanics, no useless wow-esque high numbers, skill descriptions were clear and straightforward, no random skill/traits effects. This helped a lot in both playing and watching a match and almost fully understand it: “that player is now using skill X, which does Y, in the Y moment, I get why he/she did that”.

Both previous reasons lead to a greater understanding of how team builds worked: balanced, spike, condispam, hexspam, split teams.

Oh, and let’s not forget the skill casting bar – it helped too in observer mode, even though it was (clearly) a lot more useful while playing the game.

And, as a final added bonus, you could even watch your OWN games, just to try to find what went incredibily wrong in the last match. Some people used it to grieve and for name-calling to their own team mates, but good players used it in a much more meaningful and useful way: to learn from each player mistakes and to learn how to be better as a team (for example, if the mistake lied in a bad decision by the team leader or by poor execution of a good decision, etc.).

I miss gw1 gvg and observation mode too, which makes you wonder when this generation of anet devs and management will wake up and smell the flowers.

Or will they just be the dog on the ncsoft lease until the game finally dies. Another scenario has majority of the population fleeting to the newly developed MMOs.