Guild Wars 2

Previous metas require some mechanical skill, this meta is just spam AOE, everything is bunker (even if you run Marauders), 1v1s take forever, nothing dies, many passives and invulns.

Thus the reason why GW2 PvP is utter kittene in its current state, boring to play and boring to watch. Would much rather power meta we had post HoT 100/10.

We know.

Nick.7621:

Previous metas require some mechanical skill, this meta is just spam AOE, everything is bunker (even if you run Marauders), 1v1s take forever, nothing dies, many passives and invulns.

Thus the reason why GW2 PvP is utter kittene in its current state, boring to play and boring to watch. Would much rather power meta we had post HoT 100/10.

There is an element of skill involved, it’s just a small set of builds that are relevant and the game reduces to constant interrupt/condi stack. Following their “rage quit” this past Monday, ESL Pro GW2 team Zero Counterplay had this to say

“at this point, it legitimately is just so hard to care about the game in its current state. If you need to, go back and see Game 1 of the series; 3 nodes contested something like 12 minutes into the game, with the score something like 30-0? Look at that, and then look back at me and tell me that we should be expected to sit and mash buttons hopelessly for 15 minutes. "

Leagues are also reduced to a game of luck since you have
*Solo queue and premade queue mixed.
*People tanking their MMR on new tier lock-ins

Add the horrible meta into the mix and people continuing to run outdated builds and the whole thing is just too far gone to take seriously. If you want to have fun in PvP I suggest you stop any efforts to take it serious. Solo queue exclusively and don’t get too bent out of shape when luck doesn’t play out your way. Think of it like a trip to the casino every time you queue up and hope the next season will be better.

If this was true then people wouldnt complain about facing premades and certain players wouldnt be so dominate even solo queing.

Gw2 has a lot of fundamentally great ideas on its overall design, and it’s pvp has generally always been a ton of fun. However… The skill threshold has been drastically reduced, and that is painful to think about.

It’s like, whoever spans their cooldowns the most wins a teamfight, which was especially true of bunker mes before it was shaved. Even d/d ele of old took way more thought to play than tempest, even if that build was all rotations.

I play other games that are somewhat competitive (like smash bros for wii u, a totally different type of game), and you just realize how other games are built to involve so much more strategy and mental and mechanical skill.

For me, the game lost its greatness on the June 23 update.

It took away from me 6 builds that I have spent lots of time trying to master. It destroyed warrior, thief and engie traits. Engie only slightly recovered from it due to Scrapper elite giving it some sustain.

But it destroyed thieves and warriors traits to where they would need a complete overhaul.

And on top of that, they downgraded and made less useful, the trait system . I prefer putting allotted points in various trait lines. Builds became less unique and diverse when they forced us to choose 3 traitlines instead.

I quit playing for 2 months.

Ya I agree, the bunker/trap metas are much easier to play then pre hot builds. But this game in general has a high learning curve.

kdaddy.5431:

If this was true then people wouldnt complain about facing premades and certain players wouldnt be so dominate even solo queing.

Huh?
Premades often doesn’t win because they are better skill wise, but because often they have:
a) better team composition (moar meta)
b) experience of playing together
c) voice communcation
…those things doesn’t make premades better skill wise, yet they let them win more than they deserve.

Vapour.7348:

For me, the game lost its greatness on the June 23 update.

It took away from me 6 builds that I have spent lots of time trying to master. It destroyed warrior, thief and engie traits. Engie only slightly recovered from it due to Scrapper elite giving it some sustain.

But it destroyed thieves and warriors traits to where they would need a complete overhaul.

And on top of that, they downgraded and made less useful, the trait system . I prefer putting allotted points in various trait lines. Builds became less unique and diverse when they forced us to choose 3 traitlines instead.

I quit playing for 2 months.

Healing bomb engie with incendiary powder used to get me lots of PMs. I miss that build. Now engie bombs have the most awkward looking animation. Im seriously embarrassed to use it.

Morwath.9817:

kdaddy.5431:

If this was true then people wouldnt complain about facing premades and certain players wouldnt be so dominate even solo queing.

Huh?
Premades often doesn’t win because they are better skill wise, but because often they have:
a) better team composition (moar meta)
b) experience of playing together
c) voice communcation
…those things doesn’t make premades better skill wise, yet they let them win more than they deserve.

say what you want but this game does have a skill level and there is a understanding of which you need to have to be successful. Also if i say grab the best players you know and you and ask you can you beat the 8 esl teams from your server? If you can say yeah we can ill say your right sir this game takes no skill. If you say you cant then this game takes skill.

You can say this game takes less skill then it did before HOT, you can say it takes less skill and compare it to something else but saying it doesnt take skill/understanding/ the things you suggest since they are excuses some times and legitimate reasons the other to play the game is asinine.

Just play unranked and have fun.

I’ve run into some absolutely amazing thieves that rekt me 1 v 1 in unranked games.

And a LOT of build variety.

My only complaint about unranked is that a lot of people play DH in it. And regardless of dodging out of traps, they’re still pretty annoying.

kdaddy.5431:

Morwath.9817:

kdaddy.5431:

If this was true then people wouldnt complain about facing premades and certain players wouldnt be so dominate even solo queing.

Huh?
Premades often doesn’t win because they are better skill wise, but because often they have:
a) better team composition (moar meta)
b) experience of playing together
c) voice communcation
…those things doesn’t make premades better skill wise, yet they let them win more than they deserve.

say what you want but this game does have a skill level and there is a understanding of which you need to have to be successful. Also if i say grab the best players you know and you and ask you can you beat the 8 esl teams from your server? If you can say yeah we can ill say your right sir this game takes no skill. If you say you cant then this game takes skill.

You can say this game takes less skill then it did before HOT, you can say it takes less skill and compare it to something else but saying it doesnt take skill/understanding/ the things you suggest since they are excuses some times and legitimate reasons the other to play the game is asinine.

Not to be an kitten but in higher tier MMR you’ll be facing much more competent players and warriors are non-existent simply because they lack the utilities to exist in high tier sPvP. For example: when I was Qing with my team in ranked we faced former ESL team Radioactive back to back and they swapped their warrior out (who is probably one of the best in NA even before HoT). High tier sPvP is simply bout maintaining two points or to just completely out-rotate your opponents, mechanical skill is pretty much non-existent due to the amount of bunker there and low skill cap these meta builds have.

unranked is the way to go. if you are not in the slightest interest in pro pvp or that silly backpack thing then ignore ranked…afk bunker matches and have a rush in unranked where its more relaxed.

Nick.7621:

kdaddy.5431:

Morwath.9817:

kdaddy.5431:

If this was true then people wouldnt complain about facing premades and certain players wouldnt be so dominate even solo queing.

Huh?
Premades often doesn’t win because they are better skill wise, but because often they have:
a) better team composition (moar meta)
b) experience of playing together
c) voice communcation
…those things doesn’t make premades better skill wise, yet they let them win more than they deserve.

say what you want but this game does have a skill level and there is a understanding of which you need to have to be successful. Also if i say grab the best players you know and you and ask you can you beat the 8 esl teams from your server? If you can say yeah we can ill say your right sir this game takes no skill. If you say you cant then this game takes skill.

You can say this game takes less skill then it did before HOT, you can say it takes less skill and compare it to something else but saying it doesnt take skill/understanding/ the things you suggest since they are excuses some times and legitimate reasons the other to play the game is asinine.

Not to be an kitten but in higher tier MMR you’ll be facing much more competent players and warriors are non-existent simply because they lack the utilities to exist in high tier sPvP. For example: when I was Qing with my team in ranked we faced former ESL team Radioactive back to back and they swapped their warrior out (who is probably one of the best in NA even before HoT). High tier sPvP is simply bout maintaining two points or to just completely out-rotate your opponents, mechanical skill is pretty much non-existent due to the amount of bunker there and low skill cap these meta builds have.

you mean you will face people like caed? If you wish to continue please go ahead

kdaddy.5431:

Nick.7621:

kdaddy.5431:

Morwath.9817:

kdaddy.5431:

If this was true then people wouldnt complain about facing premades and certain players wouldnt be so dominate even solo queing.

Huh?
Premades often doesn’t win because they are better skill wise, but because often they have:
a) better team composition (moar meta)
b) experience of playing together
c) voice communcation
…those things doesn’t make premades better skill wise, yet they let them win more than they deserve.

say what you want but this game does have a skill level and there is a understanding of which you need to have to be successful. Also if i say grab the best players you know and you and ask you can you beat the 8 esl teams from your server? If you can say yeah we can ill say your right sir this game takes no skill. If you say you cant then this game takes skill.

You can say this game takes less skill then it did before HOT, you can say it takes less skill and compare it to something else but saying it doesnt take skill/understanding/ the things you suggest since they are excuses some times and legitimate reasons the other to play the game is asinine.

Not to be an kitten but in higher tier MMR you’ll be facing much more competent players and warriors are non-existent simply because they lack the utilities to exist in high tier sPvP. For example: when I was Qing with my team in ranked we faced former ESL team Radioactive back to back and they swapped their warrior out (who is probably one of the best in NA even before HoT). High tier sPvP is simply bout maintaining two points or to just completely out-rotate your opponents, mechanical skill is pretty much non-existent due to the amount of bunker there and low skill cap these meta builds have.

you mean you will face people like caed? If you wish to continue please go ahead

I like how he’s queue’d with a Division 1.

cough

kdaddy.5431:

you mean you will face people like caed? If you wish to continue please go ahead

Legendary queueing with an Amber, hah. Thanks for the screenshot. Just reinforces the disgusting MMR manipulation people do in leagues.

Akikaze.1307:

Legendary queueing with an Amber, hah. Thanks for the screenshot. Just reinforces the disgusting MMR manipulation people do in leagues.

You realize that if he doesnt, he whont get a queue at all in a lot of cases?

Akikaze.1307:

kdaddy.5431:

you mean you will face people like caed? If you wish to continue please go ahead

Legendary queueing with an Amber, hah. Thanks for the screenshot. Just reinforces the disgusting MMR manipulation people do in leagues.

Yeah, I mean everyones quick to blame them for exploiting, but I think they’re merely trying to salvage a flawed, unfinished, “beta” system for leagues than purposely exploiting. They typically get hour+ long queuest at that division if they try to go solo, so I doubt they’re picking up amber kids just to get easier matches, since they’re doing it just to get matches at all.

I mean I’m sure most of you would do it too if you cared enough about stupid stuff like division and status enough to want to do that, so yeah, I don’t blame at all for wanting to be legendary, when legendary doesn’t mean a kitten thing.

nearlight.3064:

Akikaze.1307:

kdaddy.5431:

you mean you will face people like caed? If you wish to continue please go ahead

Legendary queueing with an Amber, hah. Thanks for the screenshot. Just reinforces the disgusting MMR manipulation people do in leagues.

Yeah, I mean everyones quick to blame them for exploiting, but I think they’re merely trying to salvage a flawed, unfinished, “beta” system for leagues than purposely exploiting. They typically get hour+ long queuest at that division if they try to go solo, so I doubt they’re picking up amber kids just to get easier matches, since they’re doing it just to get matches at all.

I mean I’m sure most of you would do it too if you cared enough about stupid stuff like division and status enough to want to do that, so yeah, I don’t blame at all for wanting to be legendary, when legendary doesn’t mean a kitten thing.

The underlying problem then becomes, if the precursor wings are easy to get (hit legendary) behind a time-gate, at this point there is no difference between say a fresh legendary player and someone that hit legendary x30 besides leaderboards, people only cared about the icon I assume. Since the pvp population is low you either queue into the same pool of ~80 people? and we all recognize each other then hope the random is enough.

Queue times are still abysmal for solo diamond players, let alone legendary players because I don’t think anet fully thought out the random “exploits” to the system to generate faster queue times. Unfortunately, even if you want to pvp if you are a legendary player you either have to game the system for a match or play unranked where, let’s be honest, unranked might as well be hotjoins and might make you bad.

it’s still a great game, but powercreep, neglect and BDO English beta have got me started on the 180° ‘spiderman no more’ cover pose. I’ll stick around, but BDO will be taking my hand before long. ah, if only I could decide on a class. giant awakening looks incredible though, half iron man, half hulk.

nearlight.3064:

Akikaze.1307:

kdaddy.5431:

you mean you will face people like caed? If you wish to continue please go ahead

Legendary queueing with an Amber, hah. Thanks for the screenshot. Just reinforces the disgusting MMR manipulation people do in leagues.

Yeah, I mean everyones quick to blame them for exploiting, but I think they’re merely trying to salvage a flawed, unfinished, “beta” system for leagues than purposely exploiting. They typically get hour+ long queuest at that division if they try to go solo, so I doubt they’re picking up amber kids just to get easier matches, since they’re doing it just to get matches at all.

I mean I’m sure most of you would do it too if you cared enough about stupid stuff like division and status enough to want to do that, so yeah, I don’t blame at all for wanting to be legendary, when legendary doesn’t mean a kitten thing.

It proves 2 things actually.
1) The system is indeed broken to allow queueing between 2 outliners of a spectrum. It is Anet’s fault in their implementation of the system. I know in DotA2, you cannot queue with friends if the mmr difference is too much within the group. The same should have been implemented here, if one’s division variance is too big.

2) However it doesn’t justify player’s actions to manipulate the flaws in the system. He certainly got to Legendary somehow in the first place. This meant he was able to find matches through Ruby, Diamond and Legendary. I don’t blame him if he wants to find a pvp match within a reasonable time frame. Then again, he could have queued with Emerald, Sapphire, Ruby, queuing with an Amber raised a lot of eyebrows.

I played some BnS beta. While i dont really enjoy the grindy pve structure that game has…. The gameplay is deep and extremly skillbased. A super skilled player can 1v3 due to proper timing of blocks evades etc. And with no aoe spam on points like in GW2 kills need to be setup with proper combos.

Would be nice if gw2 moved more in that direction.

Weren’t previous 2 metas mainly about spamming AoEs too?

Nova Stiker.8396:

We know.

Akikaze.1307:

kdaddy.5431:

you mean you will face people like caed? If you wish to continue please go ahead

Legendary queueing with an Amber, hah. Thanks for the screenshot. Just reinforces the disgusting MMR manipulation people do in leagues.

Why?

What if he is a actual friend who just doesnt PvP that much? I que with my guild members and there in amber/emerald/sapphire so does that make me a cheater?

Maybe he didnt want to wait for a hour long que, should he not do this because hes being punished for being better at the game then other people?

This forum is really salty over everything and even when a player loses your looking for a reason to say something negative.

kdaddy.5431:

Akikaze.1307:

kdaddy.5431:

you mean you will face people like caed? If you wish to continue please go ahead

Legendary queueing with an Amber, hah. Thanks for the screenshot. Just reinforces the disgusting MMR manipulation people do in leagues.

Why?

What if he is a actual friend who just doesnt PvP that much? I que with my guild members and there in amber/emerald/sapphire so does that make me a cheater?

Maybe he didnt want to wait for a hour long que, should he not do this because hes being punished for being better at the game then other people?

This forum is really salty over everything and even when a player loses your looking for a reason to say something negative.

You’re rather salty over it than you should be. As I mentioned in previous reply, he certainly got to legendary division in some form.

Does he deserve hour long queue? No.
Is he a cheater? No.
Was coincidence his friend is amber? Maybe.
Was his friend using a secondary account? Maybe.
Could he queued with a someone with higher division? Yes.
Is it considered manipulating the awful system implemeneted by anet? Yes.

kdaddy.5431:

Nick.7621:

kdaddy.5431:

Morwath.9817:

kdaddy.5431:

If this was true then people wouldnt complain about facing premades and certain players wouldnt be so dominate even solo queing.

Huh?
Premades often doesn’t win because they are better skill wise, but because often they have:
a) better team composition (moar meta)
b) experience of playing together
c) voice communcation
…those things doesn’t make premades better skill wise, yet they let them win more than they deserve.

say what you want but this game does have a skill level and there is a understanding of which you need to have to be successful. Also if i say grab the best players you know and you and ask you can you beat the 8 esl teams from your server? If you can say yeah we can ill say your right sir this game takes no skill. If you say you cant then this game takes skill.

You can say this game takes less skill then it did before HOT, you can say it takes less skill and compare it to something else but saying it doesnt take skill/understanding/ the things you suggest since they are excuses some times and legitimate reasons the other to play the game is asinine.

Not to be an kitten but in higher tier MMR you’ll be facing much more competent players and warriors are non-existent simply because they lack the utilities to exist in high tier sPvP. For example: when I was Qing with my team in ranked we faced former ESL team Radioactive back to back and they swapped their warrior out (who is probably one of the best in NA even before HoT). High tier sPvP is simply bout maintaining two points or to just completely out-rotate your opponents, mechanical skill is pretty much non-existent due to the amount of bunker there and low skill cap these meta builds have.

you mean you will face people like caed? If you wish to continue please go ahead

Ha3 he even took an amber….

Pimsley.3681:

Vapour.7348:

For me, the game lost its greatness on the June 23 update.

It took away from me 6 builds that I have spent lots of time trying to master. It destroyed warrior, thief and engie traits. Engie only slightly recovered from it due to Scrapper elite giving it some sustain.

But it destroyed thieves and warriors traits to where they would need a complete overhaul.

And on top of that, they downgraded and made less useful, the trait system . I prefer putting allotted points in various trait lines. Builds became less unique and diverse when they forced us to choose 3 traitlines instead.

I quit playing for 2 months.

Healing bomb engie with incendiary powder used to get me lots of PMs. I miss that build. Now engie bombs have the most awkward looking animation. Im seriously embarrassed to use it.

Elixir Infused Bombs!!!

Yeah, mechanical skill cap took a nosedive when expac was realesed. Now people are getting carried by their pets and passives.

It can but you’d have to rid the game of every strong passive to make it so while also looking at forgiving skills. If it were me, i’d remove those passive’s first so that every fight would be determined by the player, not the class.

Edit: I’m biased towards my Guardian because when I look at the trait-lines associated with this profession, I cannot find a single strong passive that decides fights for me. (Heavy Light is annoying, not strong for some of you thinking so)

The problem I have with Gw2 PvP is the amount of things that are going on.

Boons, conditions, cooldowns, builds, evades, counters, kiting, melee, combo fields, corruptions, stealth, blocks, etc, etc…

There are just… There are so many things that are happening in a fight not everyone can comprehend it all in an effective manor.

A more simple styled combat like what’s in DC Universe Online or maybe Super Smash Bros is what I would consider skill. Because it’s less about managing 19479837428734 things within the game and more about outsmarting your opponent by mentally countering them. Gw2 has so much crap going on it’s less about outsmarting your opponent and more about hoping they’re worse at multi-tasking than you are.

I very much agree that Gw2 takes no skill, I just agree with it in a different way.

Yea, builds are braindead easy to use, but it was never really a challenge to begin with.

Aside from the glaring balance issues, skill comes mostly with mini map reading abilities, positioning, rotating, creating strategical/numerical advantages, and it’s a giant frustrating experience to be constantly teammed up with drones with the attention span of a fly, following any red dot they see next without the slightest beginning of thought out tactics at any given moment.
And the fact that some post HoT builds are so rewarding from just facerolling over your keyboard won’t educate people into doing a bit more than zerg spam till it dies, and get absolutely recked when it fails.

Sure, but you know it’s not really fun when you get 5 meta builds together against 4 dps on legacy of foefire in solo queue..
In the very old meta, people were running in circle, had to use key skills in time since they had no damage.. Now you get players running in circle, spamming buffs and conditions at same PLUS you can’t prevent them from rushing lord at 350..

I mean, skyhammer was removed from rotation because some builds took advantage of it. The same is kinda happening on legacy of foefire right now..

+1, totally agree that HoT has ripped the game of any skill. That is why it will never go esports, because there is no reward for being skillful since any pleb can be just as good by facerolling. This game could really have been incredible if higher risk gameplay had higher reward. Remove the tanky amulets, make everything balanced stat wise and encourage higher zerker gameplay which is more fun to play and more fun to watch.

Why some people win and some people lose then?

Hahaha, I disagree in complete sincerity. Yes, some classes are easier than others to spam skills and have it actually DO things (aka chronomancer/guardian), but to play effectively you have to be skilled. You wont see NEW mesmers using double elites and actually landing it except maybe once in a blue moon. They forget how. They’re spamming.

You WILL see new guardians cc-spamming, but they don’t recognize things like reflects or stability, so it can be easy to trap-bait and reflect their true shot and make them hurt themselves.

The more map and class aware you are the easier it is to spot new players and bait them out of proper gameplay and rotations, thereby making your team more effective.

The two classes that used to be the easiest to play became the hardest. Thief and warrior were overpowered. Now they take incredible demands of skill to play correctly, but when played correctly they can be insanely effective.

Two classes became the most beginner friendly. Two classes became elite only. The rest are fairly skill gated.

One of the biggest problems we’re seeing is laziness. People are looking up meta builds instead of finding their own, and raging about how unfair the game is because they aren’t facerolling people out of the box.

The game is broken because my team should have won but didn’t.

I did well but still lost.

You have to talk. You have to plan. You have to instruct, you have to listen. If you are soloqing and raging about the game because you’re losing, I have only one response:

You did this to yourself.

^ this does not apply to the pips system. We all know that is wonky af. It just applies to classes and skill.

Kane.6549:

Hahaha, I disagree in complete sincerity. Yes, some classes are easier than others to spam skills and have it actually DO things (aka chronomancer/guardian), but to play effectively you have to be skilled. You wont see NEW mesmers using double elites and actually landing it except maybe once in a blue moon. They forget how. They’re spamming.

You WILL see new guardians cc-spamming, but they don’t recognize things like reflects or stability, so it can be easy to trap-bait and reflect their true shot and make them hurt themselves.

The more map and class aware you are the easier it is to spot new players and bait them out of proper gameplay and rotations, thereby making your team more effective.

The two classes that used to be the easiest to play became the hardest. Thief and warrior were overpowered. Now they take incredible demands of skill to play correctly, but when played correctly they can be insanely effective.

Two classes became the most beginner friendly. Two classes became elite only. The rest are fairly skill gated.

One of the biggest problems we’re seeing is laziness. People are looking up meta builds instead of finding their own, and raging about how unfair the game is because they aren’t facerolling people out of the box.

The game is broken because my team should have won but didn’t.

I did well but still lost.

You have to talk. You have to plan. You have to instruct, you have to listen. If you are soloqing and raging about the game because you’re losing, I have only one response:

You did this to yourself.

Thieves were easy to play?

Thieves had to do exactly what they have to do now.
+1 fights, decap far, and kill the enemy team’s roamer.

Which wasn’t easy.
Thief vs Shatter Mesmer for instance? This fight was a toss up based entirely on skill. And whether the thief went panic strike, BUT THAT’S NOT THE POINT!

Thieves were never “easy to play”.

Easier than what they have to do now? Sure. But easiest to play back in the day? Non-sense.

Akikaze.1307:

kdaddy.5431:

Akikaze.1307:

kdaddy.5431:

you mean you will face people like caed? If you wish to continue please go ahead

Legendary queueing with an Amber, hah. Thanks for the screenshot. Just reinforces the disgusting MMR manipulation people do in leagues.

Why?

What if he is a actual friend who just doesnt PvP that much? I que with my guild members and there in amber/emerald/sapphire so does that make me a cheater?

Maybe he didnt want to wait for a hour long que, should he not do this because hes being punished for being better at the game then other people?

This forum is really salty over everything and even when a player loses your looking for a reason to say something negative.

You’re rather salty over it than you should be. As I mentioned in previous reply, he certainly got to legendary division in some form.

Does he deserve hour long queue? No.
Is he a cheater? No.
Was coincidence his friend is amber? Maybe.
Was his friend using a secondary account? Maybe.
Could he queued with a someone with higher division? Yes.
Is it considered manipulating the awful system implemeneted by anet? Yes.

I am a bit salty so the term would go about this.

This is a PiP system and to get rewards/higher/rank/ better rewards you need to win the matches. If your waiting 10+ min and you have to fight a team which your asked to carry it become very frustrating.

Is it the players fault they have found a better way to PLAY the game? Anet can post a crap thing abut how leagues should be played but its on them to make the fairest system possible.

I truly find it unfair that people who are diamond/legendary are assumed cheaters when even I in emerald and sapphire felt like i was carrying dead weight to the next tier or division.

It’s there own fault kdaddy, If they didn’t grind so much when the leagues started, they wouldn’t of been legend/diamond, which means faster match making.

Kane.6549:

One of the biggest problems we’re seeing is laziness. People are looking up meta builds instead of finding their own, and raging about how unfair the game is because they aren’t facerolling people out of the box.

I have developed my own build and after thinking it through and testing I’m fairly sure it’s the best possible currently. But even trying tempest made me fairly sad I’m at best a mediocre tempest and was able to outperform my previous build.

Highlie.7641:

It’s there own fault kdaddy, If they didn’t grind so much when the leagues started, they wouldn’t of been legend/diamond, which means faster match making.

But then they’d just be farming lowbies until legend anyway.

Which would kitten off just as many people.

“Oh, I got matched up against a premade of The Abjured as an amber player. That’s kittening fan-kittening-tastic.”

In agreement with OP.

Prime example:
5 man DH premade and play stronghold. You’d actually have to try to lose, to actually lose. Just ran it with some of friends of mine…. it was more entertaining then anything else. So much rage from our enemy. Get ready for some “nerf DH” threads because of us.

Wolfs Shadow.7234:

In agreement with OP.

Prime example:
5 man DH premade and play stronghold. You’d actually have to try to lose, to actually lose. Just ran it with some of friends of mine…. it was more entertaining then anything else. So much rage from our enemy. Get ready for some “nerf DH” threads because of us.

Is that more OP than 2 tempests healing all minions & preventing the use of the trebuchet?

I kind out doubt it, seeing as I can usually 1 v 1 a DH running ChronoShatter, and I feel like bunker builds would just kind of laugh in your face.