Guild Wars 2

Thief have 2 way of being. glass canon or less glass canon.
The point is.. Thief without super burst have no way on winning a skilled player.
And reducing the dancing dagger deamage by 50% you practicly made this skill a “cripple only skill” This 50% can made a huge difference in fight!!
and reducing 33% cloack and dagger, you made the combo cloak and dagger+ back stab 33% less efective. This 33% a lto fo times means the difference betwen winning and losing.

In 8ws8 in browser, being a thief CAN be a pain in the but for others, becuse in a mass fight sometimes, you cant even see the burst coming. and bum…
But let’s be real. What can a thief do 1 on 1 without 50% of dancing daggers deamage and 33% cloak and dagger.
Rangers have now such an advantage against thiefs. Without luck and weasting a ton of utility and elite skills a thief is done against an skilled ranger player. and what should a thief do then in a next fight that comes soon?
Let’s talk against guardians. A noobish guardian is dead… An skilled guardian is very very very hard to kill, nearly inpossible for a thief. But until now there still was a way to actually kill a guardian. Now… o dear lord… a Thief against a guardian now can say a prayer and die. Of course we are speaking about skilled people, noobs die no mater what changes are made or will be made.

Against warriors will be harder to win but still possible. But a pain in the but for me…

Against mesmers… Most times a thief is dead if not using Thiefs guild utility skill.

Against enginiers…. They are such a pain in the kitten #8230; A thiefs big big pain 1 on 1 even 2 on 2… Very hard to fight them. Now even harder…

I see deads comming….. I see an update, because this made thiefs much weaker.
The point is TOURNAMENTS are DIFFERENT from BROWSER!!! in Browser people fight for PERSSONAL POINTS ONLY!!! nobody cares about winning or loosing the match.
There is chaos… and….. no actually a true gameplay like in tournaments.

You get the picture…
Thiefs has VERY LOW defense. Can’t stand for very LONG in a fight 1 on 1 or 2 on 2…
You need to avoid teaking deamage… and everytime you attack you get some deamage… you get “exposed” and now the times you will have to be “exposed” to kill is MUCH bigger.
Almost every class will now have big big advantage.
Almost every class will have much easyer way to kill a thief then a thief has to kill the other.

Even befor the update a thief in TOURNAMENT had a hard time!
(browser let’s leave it… noobs…. there every 1 can be good, because its just about attacking people that doesn’t see you coming)

Maybe in browser the word overpowered could be used. But it wasn’t the proffesions foult…. even a warrior can do even more terrible burst deamage, but has not the run away capabilities as a thief….
But in 1 on 1 situations or 2 on 2… Thief has a hard time.
Now… I don’t know what to sad. You made being a thief a pain. Now the thief is underpowered.

And bdw. Every thief when comes to Tournaments has a big surprise when realizing that tournament ain’t browser

This is crazy 50% dancing daggers omg, Just crazy. and 33% cloak and dagger. Just crazy man… all this damage taken away, and nothing in return. In browser thiefs will still be killing good. In tournaments thiefs will be daiing.

Previously 6k Mug + 6k CnD + 8k Backstab =20k on glass cannons
Now > 6k Mug + 4k CnD + 8k backstab = 18k

It’s hillarious and typical they nerfed C&D and Dancing Dagger instead of Mug and Backstab, the skills that actually needed the nerfs.

Perfect example of just not having a clue about the game they created.

This is 83% damage taken
6 iniciative for cloak and dagger and 4 iniciative for dancing daggers.
After this 2 attack you have 2 INICIATIVE LEFS that means… on full iniciative bar wasted you make 83% less deamage. This is crazy.

You think you guys got hit hard? At least you received some buffs… Look at the ele notes we got kicked to the ground and got our heads smacked in with this patch. And ofc the warriors only receive buggs.

Well at least rangers suffer the most, srry ya’ll <3

Bro IN TOURNAMENT a thief can’t be GLASS CANON because dies to FAST.
That means IN TOURNAMENT (real good fighters and NOT browser noobs)
YOu won’t see a glass canon experienced thief.
And NOW without this, a thief is poweles in a lot of ways.
As I sad in BROWSER thiefs will still be killing in same way they did. BUT tournaments and experienced people ain’t noobs as you see in browser.

Yiyojin.3241:

Of course we are speaking about skilled people, noobs die no mater what changes are made or will be made.

But until now there still was a way to actually kill a guardian. Now… o dear lord… a Thief against a guardian now can say a prayer and die.

plz tell me this is a troll..

I’m sure that guardian that will instakill you defending that point will just outrun you and kill you on the spot without you being able to do anything.. with his massive burst dps !!

a skilled player lol.. if you even think you can actually die against a bunker guardian as a thief the slowest turtle class in the game vs the most mobile and fastest class in the game with 3~5 escapes.. then its you who are the unskilled player here this will only happen if said guardian is beating on you while you are taking a shower and brush your teeth..

I appreciate your worries about thief but I still think ele got hit harder. Our already mediocre elite is not utterly worthless and our only decent grandmaster trait is also worthless. This means bunker builds will be 50% less effective and have 2 less heals. It also means our damage is reduced as we cannot proc the 8 might stacks we could before.

In return..we got 2 bug fixes.

50%? Man that kitten must have been seriously OP. Expected some nerf on BS but i guess they meant the BS rotation.

barti.7685
No it’s not!
Guardian have a lot of teleport to you skills
a lot of immobilize skills and long rage skills. I really don’t think you ever played 1.

Yiyojin.3241 : calm down bro. they nerfed some thief’s skills? there are 2 possible ways :
1_ you change class
2_ you thoerycraft over: 9000 and you find another good thief build. as you said in tourney there are no CG thieves. so, maybe you can find a good build with no massive critical chance.

or you can always outplay opponents with the old BS or PW build.but there you need a lot of patience.

Condition builds are still viable.

Yiyojin.3241:

Thief have 2 way of being. glass canon or less glass canon.
The point is.. Thief without super burst have no way on winning a skilled player.

Coming from a thief who has not played a “glass cannon build” for a long time, You’re dead wrong. Thief isn’t only super burst damage, that’s just the easy, and when I say easy I mean EASY build for killing people. There is other builds….1 Example – Venom hp leaching build, you can hold your own in pretty much any situation.

Think outside the instagib burst damage box.

I’m not an Elementalist but I understend the feeling of being hit hard. Sorry.
Befor this update, the balance was good in Tournaments. Now.. its all a big BS.
Now some classes are really underpowered and this make some classes overpowered.
Now against skilled warriors is almost inpossible to win. They have a TON of HP.
Now explain me how are you supososed to kill a warrior that got 19k+hp
When each time you attack them you lose atlest 3-4-5k HP and in prolonged aproach you lose 10K HP or more. that is crazy. no way… killing a skilled warrior is now a matter of LUCK. and dodging every theyr “killing move”

Sorry but ele bunkers were a bit over the top previously.

Yiyojin.3241:

barti.7685
No it’s not!
Guardian have a lot of teleport to you skills
a lot of immobilize skills and long rage skills. I really don’t think you ever played 1.

guardians have teleport skills now ? i know of 1 immobilize the chain one and the dome they can put over you to keep you trapped for what 5 seconds ? long range skills i asume you mean those balls they shoot with there sceptre that travel at space velocity speed and you can outwalk ? am i really that oblivious about guardians or is he ? i never ever had a prolem outrunning guardians on my necromancer and thats like the 2nd slowest class in the game..

to me it seems you have lill concept of how this game works..

Condition builds heh.. Try to take down a few classes with conditions build. good luck, I really mean good luck. Thiefs in PvP should not use condition damage because is just not worth it.

RefferKeeper@

I agree there are other builds I tried them in the past. A thief that is focused on surviving is damage week as hell. And thief is not a point holder or battle supporter. So what’s the meaning having a thief in team that does the job of guardian or engi or ele or necro but is doing it less good then they would.?
Thiefs HP goes down very fast. That means surviving for thiefs is the biggest problem. Any skilled thief trys to avoid damage as much as he can.
Now.. avoiding the damage doesen’t count at all. because in a prolonged fight you evenctualy die against professions.

Thief is a “contact” fighter and has something like a ranger or enginier defense.
But the difference is…
All of the proffesions above are LONG RANGED proffesions
Thief need to go close range to fight if want to do real damage (most of the times I sad it! most of the times)
and against a warrior or guardian….
and even when fighting long ranged proffesions there is still problem. Tiefs want to come close and long ranged proffesions want to stay away. hehe. Guess what.. In that time thiefs can get ton of damage…

The satire is strong with this one.

milo.6942:

Sorry but ele bunkers were a bit over the top previously.

I agree with this, that’s why we needed a small nerf.

But not removing the main function of evasive arcana (plus nerfing the healing at the same time). They were over the top because the blast finish activated even if the spell didn’t and because the finishes could be chained. All it would have needed was a global cooldown to prevent chaining.

barti.7685 mate you sad you are necro. You are long ranged. Guess what. Thiefs to do serius damage needs to come close range most of the times..

Ok dude, Hammer: Mighty bow (range 300)
Zelots embrace (immobilize)
Ring of warding (preventign you from run away.

Sword: Flashing blade (teleport to your target)
Zealot’s defense (range 600)

Scepter: Chains of light (immobilize) (range 900)
Smite (range 1200) Damage 3705

Shield + other "no damage take skills)
A pain in the but ( my personal skill)

Great sword
Leap of faith (range 600)
Wirling wrath (range 600)
Binding blade ( pulls your foe to you )(range 600)

Utility skills………….. TON of usefull skills 1 of them
judges Intervention
teleport to your foe + burn all foes around

I knew they would ruin a lot with this update. Thiefs life is now a hard life. Good luck killing skilled people of any class. All that damage taken and nothing in return. that is just crazy. that is crazy. No way. They will make a new update in time to fix this crazynes. But untill then We have to play in this mess chaos.

I heard D/P and P/D are pretty good… -_____________-

I don’t see much difference tbh.

50% dancing dagger damage… oh poor thingy

now you will only deal 10k damage to whoever is trying to res :’(

Yiyojin.3241:

barti.7685 mate you sad you are necro. You are long ranged. Guess what. Thiefs to do serius damage needs to come close range most of the times..

Ok dude, Hammer: Mighty bow (range 300)
Zelots embrace (immobilize)
Ring of warding (preventign you from run away.

Sword: Flashing blade (teleport to your target)
Zealot’s defense (range 600)

Scepter: Chains of light (immobilize) (range 900)
Smite (range 1200) Damage 3705

Shield + other "no damage take skills)
A pain in the but ( my personal skill)

Great sword
Leap of faith (range 600)
Wirling wrath (range 600)
Binding blade ( pulls your foe to you )(range 600)

Utility skills………….. TON of usefull skills 1 of them
judges Intervention
teleport to your foe + burn all foes around

wow and they use all that at the same time are they closely related to mariliths guardians because in your world they seem to be all carrying 6 weapons at the same time with them and 8 utility skills too ?

and you dont have bow to get out of immobilize that puts you what 900 yard aways from him or shadowstep or infiltrator strike or withdraw or dagger storm or roll for initiative. i really feel bad for thiefs.. they seem so immobile and slow even guardians seem to be outrunning them now.

i really feel bad for you thiefs most nerfed class in the game but what do i know im just an overpowered necromancer who attacks stuf from 900 yards away.. its not like you can do that..

you know instantly shadowstep to someone and then open up with an 18k burst no only necromancers can do that. necromancers most overpowered class in the game..

Herak.8351:

now you will only deal 10k damage to whoever is trying to res :’(

It actually does less than that. But I feel as if they nerfed more than dancing dagger and C&D and its just not in the notes. HS is only critting for 5.2k on 25% targets. Backstab not doing its regular 6k-7k damage with assassins signet. I smell something.

I mean if everyone was honestly running high toughness builds in the past games I was just playing, otherwise something feels weird after this patch.

ReeferKeeper.1865:

Yiyojin.3241:

Thief have 2 way of being. glass canon or less glass canon.
The point is.. Thief without super burst have no way on winning a skilled player.

Coming from a thief who has not played a “glass cannon build” for a long time, You’re dead wrong. Thief isn’t only super burst damage, that’s just the easy, and when I say easy I mean EASY build for killing people. There is other builds….1 Example – Venom hp leaching build, you can hold your own in pretty much any situation.

Think outside the instagib burst damage box.

Leeching build isn’t all that great. The trait allows you get back around 382 health back per hit with a venom skill applied(after patch). That is 1910 health is you go through spider venom. The build scales on power(tested with a little over 3k power). Venom skills are very limiting as the number of strikes are too few to give to enough sustain to be effective. If you fill all utilities with venom skill it will do more harm than good(no condition removal(shadow step), no blinding powder etc…).

Well I find this build alot better then bs build for my personal play style, No I don’t fill up skillbar with all venoms because like you said that isn’t a smart move. I’ve won many 1v1 with this build based on bleed damage and poison. Even a 3 vs 1 where I took down 1 of three then died, but still it wasn’t like I creeped up and killed that 1 person in 2 seconds using burst then got roflstomped in the same 2 seconds. It’s all about how you play the build I guess.

As for your thoughts on the hp you get from venom leaching, tack on the passive where you get hp for every single hit you do, the trait to gain hp for every initiative skill you use, and you gain a pretty decent amount. Only downfall is when you get really low hp your healing skill doesn’t heal enough to save your kitten So your screwed then.

I won’t bother explaining anymore of my traits or skills I use because I constantly switch my skills around in a battle depending who I’m about to run into or how I want to fight, as I think everyone should. But I survive a lot better and do just as well fighting people with my condition based.

I was just trying to prove thief is not only 2 builds based on burst and more burst. Those are just the easiest + most popular.

ReeferKeeper.1865:

Well I find this build alot better then bs build for my personal play style, No I don’t fill up skillbar with all venoms because like you said that isn’t a smart move. I’ve won many 1v1 with this build based on bleed damage and poison. Even a 3 vs 1 where I took down 1 of three then died, but still it wasn’t like I creeped up and killed that 1 person in 2 seconds using burst then got roflstomped in the same 2 seconds. It’s all about how you play the build I guess.

As for your thoughts on the hp you get from venom leaching, tack on the passive where you get hp for every single hit you do, the trait to gain hp for every initiative skill you use, and you gain a pretty decent amount. Only downfall is when you get really low hp your healing skill doesn’t heal enough to save your kitten So your screwed then.

I won’t bother explaining anymore of my traits or skills I use because I constantly switch my skills around in a battle depending who I’m about to run into or how I want to fight, as I think everyone should. But I survive a lot better and do just as well fighting people with my condition based.

I was just trying to prove thief is not only 2 builds based on burst and more burst. Those are just the easiest + most popular.

proving nothing . give build to see how it works.
words are words ..

Navzar.2938:

milo.6942:

Sorry but ele bunkers were a bit over the top previously.

I agree with this, that’s why we needed a small nerf.

But not removing the main function of evasive arcana (plus nerfing the healing at the same time). They were over the top because the blast finish activated even if the spell didn’t and because the finishes could be chained. All it would have needed was a global cooldown to prevent chaining.

I agree with this. OR they could’ve limited the number of blasts to be combo’ed with a field. There are other ways of nerfing bunker eles if that was what they wanted with the change they made for Evasive Arcana. What is depressing is the fun playstyle with EA was totally obliterated when they removed the blast finisher. Not only did it nerf the godlike healing abilities of bunker eles but it totally removed a fun mechanic or playstyle in any build that offers risk/reward via dodge rolling.

I highly doubt that they were unintended. They just said it this way just to mitigate the chaos this will cause. I maybe wrong, but who knows? Churning Earth after that dodge roll seems like a legitimate blast skill with that animation, doesn’t it?

So many things wrong.
33% reduction on CnD is taking the total burst down from average of 15k to about 13.3k.
The damage was never the problem with the theif burst, it was 3 abilities hitting within half a second being almost impossible to dodge.
Dancing daggers never did that much damage in the first place, it was used as an evade/bleed stack, so its kinda meh anyway.

@shukran
Meh… maybe later I’ll post my build, but right now I can’t be assed to go through it all in text format. So maybe another thief will kindly put your denial to rest before I do. I’m not the only thief I seen running this kind of build, but I am one of the few I think :P

And like I said I’m constantly switching it around as I play so it would be hard to go through each skill and why or when I use it… That last post was a long one for me to begin with, I don’t wanna post 5 pages worth!

Infectious.4836:

So many things wrong.
33% reduction on CnD is taking the total burst down from average of 15k to about 13.3k.
The damage was never the problem with the theif burst, it was 3 abilities hitting within half a second being almost impossible to dodge.
Dancing daggers never did that much damage in the first place, it was used as an evade/bleed stack, so its kinda meh anyway.

Stack bleed? Evade? I think you might be thinking of death blossum. Dancing dagger is dagger #4.

35% of times the winning a fight was thanks to dancing daggers.
kitten 35% of times winning a fight was determinated by cloak and dagger.
Let’s just say it 2 most inportant skills in first 5 skills for a thief was maded 83% less efective.
Now. Are you kidding?
1.67 sec= 1 initative
10 initiative = 16.7 sec
83% less damage on 16.7 sec

Thiefs most of the times has the “golden time”
The time a thief has to kill someone. In that time… most of utility skills are used + heal skill used. And the damage thiefs take is to big to survive much longer in combat.
After that a thief is a dead thief (most of the times.)

You took 70% of our wining possibilities away. Just by that.
Man. really what the hell? Good luck fighting a warrior now. Even befor was hard, what is now? for not speak against other classes. Enginiers, or mesmers. For god sake guardians, rangers? for god sake rangers. or necros??? yea, against necros? what can we do now? they have all this dead pets around them, or surviving capabilities or heavy damage. In a prolonged fight with them….. kitten This ruined thiefs man.

Yiyojin.3241:

35% of times the winning a fight was thanks to dancing daggers. kitten 35% of times winning a fight was determinated by cloak and dagger.
Let’s just say it 2 most inportant skills in first 5 skills for a thief was maded 83% less efective.
Now. Are you kidding?
1.67 sec= 1 initative
10 initiative = 16.7 sec
83% less damage on 16.7 sec

Thiefs most of the times has the “golden time”
The time a thief has to kill someone. In that time… most of utility skills are used + heal skill used. And the damage thiefs take is to big to survive much longer in combat.
After that a thief is a dead thief (most of the times.)

You took 70% of our wining possibilities away. Just by that.
Man. really what the hell? Good luck fighting a warrior now. Even befor was hard, what is now? for not speak against other classes. Enginiers, or mesmers. For god sake guardians, rangers? for god sake rangers. or necros??? yea, against necros? what can we do now? they have all this dead pets around them, or surviving capabilities or heavy damage. In a prolonged fight with them….. kitten This ruined thiefs man.

I wasn’t surprised you didn’t mention Ele. :P

Yiyojin.3241:

35% of times the winning a fight was thanks to dancing daggers. kitten 35% of times winning a fight was determinated by cloak and dagger.
Let’s just say it 2 most inportant skills in first 5 skills for a thief was maded 83% less efective.
Now. Are you kidding?
1.67 sec= 1 initative
10 initiative = 16.7 sec
83% less damage on 16.7 sec

Thiefs most of the times has the “golden time”
The time a thief has to kill someone. In that time… most of utility skills are used + heal skill used. And the damage thiefs take is to big to survive much longer in combat.
After that a thief is a dead thief (most of the times.)

You took 70% of our wining possibilities away. Just by that.
Man. really what the hell? Good luck fighting a warrior now. Even befor was hard, what is now? for not speak against other classes. Enginiers, or mesmers. For god sake guardians, rangers? for god sake rangers. or necros??? yea, against necros? what can we do now? they have all this dead pets around them, or surviving capabilities or heavy damage. In a prolonged fight with them….. kitten This ruined thiefs man.

Don’t…run…D/D GC spec…anymore?

Still running S/D after nerfs and haven’t had any problems yet. You guys may be looking far too into the nerfs. If 35% of your wins in duels and games were determined by dancing dagger or cloak and dagger, you are clearly doing something wrong!

Dreleth.3647:

Still running S/D after nerfs and haven’t had any problems yet. You guys may be looking far too into the nerfs. If 35% of your wins in duels and games were determined by dancing dagger or cloak and dagger, you are clearly doing something wrong!

S/D rellies on dancing dagger for a fair deal of dps…
The sword spammable is nifty but won’t tend to take you home in good fights….